Beast – Beyond Repoach

Full transcript of Beast – Beyond Repoach.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household. And we are back in the motherland. We haven't been here since two Bubba Oti.

0:07Oti: mm-hmm,

0:07KT: go and check out our Young, Famous and African episode, friends and lovers. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and primal lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT

0:43Oti: and Oti.

0:44KT: Stare at the beast of survival or legacy as we are guided by the Sweetie White Saviour. Take a bite out of the motherland with Beast this week,

0:56Oti: Mm-hmm

0:59KT: Woohoohoo the least problematic will at the Oscars. Am I right? shout outs to Will Packer right off the top. Let's get into general stats and information, and I managed to scribble some themes and I'm very excited to talk about this friends and lovers.

1:14KT: In regards to director, we have the ever love and lorded. Baltasar Kormákur. In regards to writers, we have Ryan Engle as well as Jaime Primak Sullivan for the story actors, actors, actors, Idris Elba is a well known entity in the For Your Reference household. And he's obviously going to have his own section, um, shoutouts to the rest of the cast, Iyana Halley, Leah Sava Jeffries, and the OG sweetie man, Sharlto Copley

1:44Oti: Mm-hmm sweetie man in the house,

1:46KT: Sweetie and still a savior. It seems spoiler. Spoiler, spoiler, sweetie savior, sweetie savior, sweetie savior.

1:54Oti: Wow.

1:55KT: Who, who, who let's get into first impressions, Oti, you know, um, it's nice to be situated back on the, as Burna Boy would say the OG continent where everyone originated from uh, let's talk about his impressions. What did you think of the film now that you've had some time to digest? Like the lion you are? How are you feeling? My love?

2:20Oti: Uh, good. I thought I, I enjoyed the movie. Um, seeing just, you know, it's been a while since you've seen a movie like this, you know, it, it reminded me of something like Ghost and the Darkness.

2:31KT: Yeah. Which was about, uh, how people are building the railway through Tsavo. And And I wonder who they got to build the railways. Hmm. Seems like a different topic. Eh,

2:42Oti: Yeah. That's a completely different topic altogether and the attacked by lions and all that. So it's been a minute since I've seen anything like this and I was there for it.

2:50KT: It was fun. It was enjoyable. And it, it didn't take itself seriously, which is a big proponent of what I've been enjoying lately, Uhhuh and, um, it was fun. It was a fun day out in the cinemas. Nice. Um, but I would say, you know, I am an Idris gal.

3:04KT: And if you are, you know, an OG of the For Your Reference household, you know, I was holding the bastion, um, for Idris, uh, James Bond. But you know, in this anti-choice Game of Thrones, House of the Dragon world, I understand how this matrix works. um, but I kind of feel like Idris thrives in serious roles. Okay. And I, I guess we can talk about performances, but you know, if anyone said, I said this, if anyone tries to do a soundbite of this, I'll just say it was an audio deepfake.

3:38Oti: you've been doing a lot of deepfakes. They did, then

3:40KT: don't worry about my subro Oti. Don't worry about how we pay for those electricity utility bills. Oh

3:47Oti: Oh, wow.

3:49KT: speaking of, I, I guess the opposite contrast is I really enjoyed the isolation in this film. Um, like you said, it's been a while since we've watched something aside from Nope, because obviously that is a blockbuster go and check out. Nope. If you haven't already watched it, but this was very. A specific story that was being told.

4:08KT: Right. Um, you've got the sort of domestics that are going on with, um, Dr. Nate and his daughters, but you've got a very real, very tangible need for survival. And I think it really traversed the very nice sort of balance, um, being in South Africa. Right. Um, there's obviously there's a, there's a lot that I definitely want to talk about, but, um, generally, yeah, you're right.

4:31KT: I did enjoy it. Um, I did feel like in. To poaching, which surprise, surprise, welcome. Have a seat, enjoy our Jupiter, cock of truth, friends and lovers. Um, we're definitely gonna talk about poaching. Um, but I kind of wish that it dived a bit deeper. No one's saying it needed to. And I guess the film didn't really afford for the space for it to be deep, but you can't put in a topic such.

4:56KT: Poaching and not go deep. Right. It's like having 12 Years a Slave and then just looking at Fassbender the whole time. Like

5:06Oti: I'm pretty, pretty sure that people out there who have preferred that movie all

5:10KT: they got the Fassbender edit mm-hmm yeah, probably. Um, so let's, let's talk about the themes. Obviously we'll talk about the characters, but there are some themes that I want to get into, and I wanna talk about poaching personally for me.

5:23KT: Um, and you know, Oti feel free to occupy all the space, but personally, I, I kind of. I've felt very, very like slum tourism travel brochure with the way they approached poaching in the film. Um, because you know, we, we can generally say poaching is bad, but then are we also addressing the volume of poaching is to actually meet a demand in the market? Like, are we going to have that conversation? Cuz if we're not, we're kind of just demonizing one side thoughts, our residential, African black.

5:59Oti: Wow.

6:00KT: Well, you took the title in Young, Famous and African. So

6:03Oti: I did, uh, I didn't have a problem with how they approached poaching. I thought they raised the, the options out there. Like they, they didn't spell it up for people, but they did bring some discussions around it, including anti poaches as well. So it's, it's not that they had to delve deep into the poaching world or try and.

6:24Oti: See how bad or how good it is or, or the benefits for the community that, that engage in this because a, they probably don't have any other choice to survive or feed their family like it's multi nuanced, and it's not just, oh, Bing is bad. You know, it it's, it's, it's things that a lot of the time, uh, people used as a tool back in the day. Yeah. You know, um, to trade, you know, good old, bad trade and stuff. So it's, it's nothing new. Yeah. It's not a new concept,

6:54KT: it's but the movie didn't afford it. That's what I'm saying

6:57Oti: Agreed, but they were looking at the more radical ways in which people poach nowadays, which has escalated. It's not off. Oh, let's do it for all.

7:06KT: You know, let's do it in a controlled manner where we're not just eradicating all the bloody elephants for no fucking reason. You know, you don't have to kill a fucking elephant to get its tusks, you know, it's shit like. Yeah, but like, even, even if I can speak to it, you know, I cringe at the thought of me being a tourist, but you know, I am, and, and I have been going to Kenya and you know, you go to elephant, you know, orphanages and there's a whole spiel about poaching.

7:33KT: Without also acknowledging the market. That is a, you know what I mean? There's a reason why there are slum orphanages that aren't legitimate orphanages in Nepal and all around the world. Like there's a reason why there is a supply of it is because there's a demand for it. And I think, you know, cause we're real and we're gonna talk about it.

7:52KT: This is our frame of reference. Uh, maybe it's because this wasn't written by African people. So the lens of it. Being like these people are made it kind of casted a shadow on the overall sort of film. It felt like plucking an aesthetic, you know? No, no stranger to like a Tarantino being like, I want to take doc Tanya I'm just going to do this.

8:17Oti: I, I see where you're going. Um, I can see that, but I think the, the purpose of this movie was to sort of not delve deep into all those sort of issues,

8:27KT: but then why do it? That's that's what I'm saying

8:29Oti: More for the lighthearted, seeing lion's fucking cheat on people, entertainment, value.

8:35KT: Well haven't they seen the TV series. Lare. They could have just had he could have, he could have stayed in the United States and had that, but it, you know, it, it's interesting and I'm, I'm more than happy to relinquish this space to you. I personally found it a bit frustrating because of the, if you are part the part, the lens. Of this film, because it doesn't allow for nuance, but it gives a very, um, go to consumable digestible, not necessarily true to life being one with the land. That's all.

9:11Oti: Yeah. Uh, I think the daughters sort of bring that aspect in, uh, I think it was, I think it was the younger daughter, Norah, who was bringing up all the sort of effects of poaching Uhhuh, and what's out there to combat that.

9:25Oti: And outside of that, they didn't really address it that much other than just depict them as really, um, sort of the bad sort of villains in the movie. Which they had to get their cup and you see them how they get devoured by the bloody lion, you know? So uh, I can understand that because at the end of the day, the way it's being done right now, um, it's sort of moved away from the sort of back in the day sort of method.

9:53KT: Okay. Interesting. And I think, you know, even coming back to our King Kong episode, like the visual portrayals didn't seem to bother you. Maybe if the dialogue was a bit more, you know, sharp shooting, maybe you would've got a bit more frustrated with it, but if you are cool with it, I love it. I just wanted to address, you know, the poaching in the room, so to speak.

10:16KT: So the next theme that I have is family squabbles versus survival. This was, this was, um, interesting to me because even once we get through like the first. 20 to 40 minutes of establishing the film. There was still a lot of moments that there was squabbling in the film where there are literal lions about to devour you. That I thought was quite interesting. Cause I'm like, you need to let that go, brother. we're trained to survive out here.

10:43Oti: Yeah, it was wild. I think the daughters just showed a side of, of, I, I, I don't know if it's bravery or fucking courage, but bloody hell they had, they put their squabbles at the forefront, you know, despite everything else. Um, he had, uh, Meredith the older daughter.

11:01KT: Mm-hmm, pretty much ignoring what Nate says. Yeah. You know, stay in the car. Not getting she's, but there's a literal lion.

11:08Oti: literal lion in the vicinity. I'm like what?

11:12KT: Like, I don't care how mad I am at you, Oti. I would never leave the safety of a car just because I'm mad at you. And I'm a petty motherfucker. I'm not 50 Cent petty, but I'm almost there.

11:24Oti: Yeah. And it's, it's wild because we all love bloody Sharlto Copley, but I'm not getting out of a car to go to go drag him out. When there's a lion in the vicinity,

11:36KT: Yeah. Like it was good to know your uncle, but that's how it ends. We'll see you in hell you fucking

11:47Oti: You know, but I think that's one of the things where you suspend believability for a bit. Yeah. Because in no way, a father and his two daughters get stuck in, in a fucking reserve and they do that shit. Yeah. Because bloody hell yeah. Hey, I'm not getting out that comfort. No one. Yeah. I'm staying there until someone else comes and finds me.

12:08KT: What if Halle Berry was out there wanting to be saved?

12:12Oti: It was good knowing you, you know, okay.

12:16KT: Cause you, you see, I, I was, I said Halle Berry instead of myself, cuz I thought that would get you out of the

12:21Oti: the corner

12:24KT: but I thought that was quite interesting and you're right. It was more so Meredith not necessarily Norah, but yeah, unless that's like the Americans sort of like, um, mindset, I don't know, but for me it's a universal mindset to like survive.

12:39Oti: Mm mm. Yeah, it was wild because suspending believability for a bit, you know, Meredith had, you know, you could tell that she was really, really angry and Nate for abandoning them, especially when the mom was sick and she held him responsible for everything. That's fair enough. But when you're faced with a lion that can't be killed.

13:00KT: Yeah. That's dodging bullets. that is, is, is, is, is walking out of, of a fucking Kay explosion, like Bad Boys. Michael Bay's next's film.

13:13Oti: Yeah. Uh, you you've gotta draw a.

13:16KT: And I think that's where Norah was sort of bringing her back to sort of reality and being like, Hey, this is not the time. Yeah. This is not the you might not even make it out alive to hold this resentment.

13:28Oti: Yeah. Me

13:32KT: survive for your grudge to live another day. Yeah. Oh yeah. Well, you kind of, you, you touched on the next thing that I wanted to go to very perfectly. And it's the supernatural lion and I don't know. Would you say it was more than one? Cause I feel like there were more than one lions that we saw that were like

13:49Oti: Nah, it was the one lion that had his whole pride killed and it was vengeful as fuck, but it survived a myriad of, of, of counties. You know, machine guns won't do anything. It was wild. He was the BA of the lions. Well, looking out for the Continental, I'll be looking forward to see if they have a lion department.

14:12Oti: Mm mm.

14:13KT: But I wanna talk about it. Do you, do you genuinely believe cuz you keep talking about suspending belief, suspending belief, which I love because we're in Africa and it's, it's very real based in real life, but you've been saying suspending belief for so much of this. Do we need to suspend belief or do, are we actually saying that there's some sort of supernatural or law in regards to this lion resisting and being able to thrive?

14:37Oti: well, the broaden mythology around a phenomenon that has lions that have lost their pride, um, hunting down the people who the poaches.

14:48KT: Yeah. But I don't think that's a supernatural thing. I that's, I think that's just basic instinct if you pardon the pun,

14:53Oti: but lions don't, don't behave like that. You know, lions don't come and fucking hunt. You like that, you

14:58KT: Well, when you cut them off from the pride they do, but I don't think that's a supernatural component. So why are the, why are these lions, why is this lion not dying? Is my question.

15:06Oti: No, I, I think that's whatever this lion was doing is fucking supernatural because I I've never had or seen a lion behave this way. But how it was, it was just, I don't know, maybe revenge is a very strong motivator, you know, saying some punches, some kicks, dodging bullets, like Neo, you know, nothing could touch him up until, you know, and I think the most, I don't know if you could call it poetic thing is the only thing that stopped it is another is, is another lion

15:37KT: uh okay. I have a theme for that. So we'll, we'll leave that to the side for the second while we're talking about the supernatural lion, whether the lion was supernatural or not, we need to talk about Nate. Like we need to talk about Nate and I kind of hinted at it when we were talking about first impressions. I'm not for toxic masculinity, friends and lovers, but if there was

15:57Oti: that again,

15:58KT: If there was ever a time for toxic masculinity, isn't it to fucking save Norah from a fucking lion. He was like shouting advice from the bottom of the Jeep. And I'm like, get the fuck out and go and save your daughter. Oh, hide. Make sure he can't see you. And the lion's on the top of the Jeep and you're still trying to yell at advice C figures or otherwise.

16:19Oti: Well, you know, there's a thing, you know, when you go to open and they say like, don't try and fucking put a fist mask on your kid. do it to yourself fast. That's the same scenario here. What's good of him coming under that Jeep for him to be MAED there's no, there's no reason. Stay safe, make sure your kid can hear the instructions.

16:39KT: And until the situation is neutralized or you're safe to come out. That's the only situation where he can come out because we saw him. I, I know you're jumping to, towards the end of the movie. When he, when he had like walking out and just saying back, fuck it. I'll fight this lion. Yeah. I'm like bra, you there's a dozen, couple of times we would've died by then. the whole time, like the whole time, like, do you want a medal? Because you're taking a stand. Now you left Norah in the fucking car.

17:07Oti: No, like don't even a metal bit, but wow. I think that lion was wearing like oven.

17:13KT: Because I don't understand how he wasn't to, to shreds. Yeah. Within the first two seconds he had a little scratch,

17:19Oti: He was just battling with a fucking lion and he lived to tell the tale just fucking minor scratches. He in there nah, bra, come on now. Come on.

17:28KT: on. I just like, you know,

17:31Oti: they treated that lion, like Goro, you know,

17:36KT: you still haven't healed from the, a view. No, no. Go and check out our Mortal Kombat, um, episode friends and lovers

17:42Oti: That lion had Goro energy all over it. you know, it's big, you know, it's tough, you know, it's badass, you know, it can beat pretty much most of the people there, but nah, you'll get that one person who will fucking defy a logic.

17:57KT: Just say people aren't reading your Goro sex fan fiction. Just say that because that's the pain I'm feeling right now.

18:06Oti: yeah, that'll be a separate podcast.

18:08KT: Yeah. oh man. But yeah, that lion was very interesting. And then, you know, obviously if I'm gonna Kyle, Katie broski it, like they, they put this lion in a circumstance that you're right. Isn't in their nature. So fuck shit up my friend.

18:26Oti: and to some degree I was with a lion, like yeah, what the fuck

18:29KT: you me? Yeah. Yeah. You killed everyone in my pride. Yeah. I'm gonna hunt you down. I'm gonna kill you. And I was like, yes, do that. Yeah. You know, it doesn't matter that Nate's married. That Norah weren't there for it. Yeah. But me, he said, fuck you, fuck the clicky claim. Fuck your thumbs. . And he's like me. Fuck. You're standing up. Right. I'm coming for about it. Yeah. Poacher, anti-poacher. You're all the fucking same. I'm coming for you.

18:55Oti: As long as you're fucking walking with your fucking two legs, da, you are out.

19:01KT: Ramage now, but I was like, yeah, leave these fucking animals alone. And if you're not gonna leave them alone, come for your ass. And another thing, if we're talking about Dr. Nate, what was up with him? Like I get that cuz you know, friends and lovers go and listen to our four blocks as Katie Kama told you, go and listen to our four blocks. Um, because I really go into detail about the difference of nationality and ethnicity. And we see that very clearly with Dr.

19:32KT: Nate's charact. Because he he's absolutely a black man, but he is very American. Like he is very American and a side note. Did he go to the Karl Urban school of accents? Because usually he does quite a good American accent or is it when he got very scared? Cause I could hear the flickers of like a British accent,

19:52Oti: to be honest. I didn't, I didn't know. He was meant to be American until he said it

19:57KT: well, I, I was asking to clarify and we were both a bit confused.

20:01Oti: I was like, oh bro, did you just say New York from

20:07KT: wow.

20:08Oti: Oh,

20:09KT: wow. I just assumed the old Brits, But the way he navigated was very confusing to me. Cause like I said, survival is universal, but he was acting very American, very Western in the sense that, you know, when you have Martin trying to tell him how to find the tower and he's like, it's the only man made thing. How, how the fuck this motherfucker can't find a fucking tower. Like I'm like help yourself, mate. Like if you're not gonna help your daughter from getting ravished by a lion, help yourself.

20:40Oti: Mm. Yeah. The, the moments of, of, of disbelief with Nate specifically, you know, Where you'd assume that he'd take ownership or charge in a situation.

20:50KT: Yeah.

20:51Oti: And that's where the daughters either Meredith or, or Norah would come in.

20:55KT: I'm like, yeah, no, yes, no. yeah, come on. Now. You should not even let this situation fly like that. Like, there's a reason why he's estranged because he wasn't fucking helpful or he just didn't like his daughters. I don't know

21:08Oti: the last scene or it was the end of the movie was the last scene. They, they, they, he gets the Jeep.

21:13Oti: They start driving. He sees an abandoned house. It's like, it's better. I, I take you, um, I take Mare there to go and, you know, treat her there. So she's better. But Nate enters the bloody room and doesn't close anything. He knows there's a bloody lion. There's a pride of lion somewhere there there's lions everywhere. Yeah. You know, they're running from one. Yeah. And he doesn't close any door. He doesn't close any, you know, he opens everything and leaves it.

21:42Oti: And I'm like, okay, I know you are scared. I understand that. But that's just a basic survival shit. especially for black fella, you know, you don't go opening doors and not closing them when you're being attacked. Cause at least if you hear like a disturbance, you know where it's coming from.

22:00Oti: Yeah. He had some white energy there. I'm not cool.

22:05KT: I say Western, Oti says white, apparently um, no, but you're right. There were so many questionable things that he did. And I'm like, ah, this is a beautiful lesson in nationality and ethnicity because why was he navigating in such ridiculous ways?

22:21Oti: Doesn't matter. Well, it doesn't matter what neighborhood you're in. Yeah. Black people will fucking close the doors, you know?

22:26KT: Well, not him.

22:27Oti: apparently not,

22:28KT: not him,

22:29Oti: especially in some jungle or being chased by a lion. And you're like, yeah, I'm just gonna open all the.

22:36KT: Yeah. I'm gonna open all the windows. don't they consult you for their, for their black fellow scripts?

22:42Oti: Will Packer was there close the doors.

22:49KT: keep Will Packer's name out your fucking mouth? O Yeah, there was just like, I don't know, like, you know, like there's, there's a lot of talk about, um, Idris Elba's like, this is one of the. Or maybe one of the few sort of roles he has where he is vulnerable. And I don't agree with that because he wasn't emotionally vulnerable and he just let his daughters throw to the wayside. That's not being vulnerable. That's being careless and negligent.

23:18Oti: he was not the best dad. And he, he admitted as much at the very least. He, he, he, he was like, yeah, you know, I've not been the best dad. I, I I'm I'm here now. You know, I'm gonna step up.

23:30KT: up, but usually when people say I'm not the best dad, they'll still try and save you from a lion.

23:35Oti: True. True. But then where's the lion, you know, there's no guide. There's no guide to say that you've gotta rescue your daughters from lions, no matter what, you've gotta lock the doors to make sure no one can enter the house while you're being chased. There's no manual for that shit. So I'm not gonna hold him accountable when, you know, he's just trying out here

23:54KT: and this and friends and lovers, this is why we don't talk about Oti's previous lives and previous wives. Cause it sounds like you've left a lot of kids out to the lion

24:08Oti: what are we watching? Uh, I think it was, um, 90 Day Lael and you'd have. Kobe, you have Kobe come and say, you know what? At the age of three, the kid had to, you know, and the kid had to manage his own affairs. You know, that's the energy, three years old bra you're old enough manage your old affairs. You're

24:29KT: missing the context cuz he wanted to continue to suck tidy and not the kid.

24:33Oti: And that's empowerment.

24:34KT: Kenya through way of Cameroon. Am I right?

24:36Oti: Yeah.

24:39KT: We, we are chil of quality, but we are TVs of trash, friends and lovers go and watch 90 Day Fiancé. We have a lot of time for that. What I don't have a lot of time for it's the last theme on my list. And we can also go to, um, characters as well. It's the power of lion friendship.

24:58Oti: We had Martin shores that, you know, um, him hugging the lions, understanding the difference or when he can approach or, or when he can stay back. And you know what he raised those lions. You know, since there were Cubs, and he understood them. So, you know, I was like, okay, more power. What I didn't buy though is, and I, and I get that the lions are territorial.

25:20Oti: And if a stray lion would come near a pride, it's the, you know, it's the, it's the job for them to protect mm-hmm . But if a lion is attacking another human being, I'm here sitting, thinking, is that, is that why I'm gonna interfere there? Is, is that gonna inter. And then not only that, not only defeat the lion that had trespass, but leave the bloody man, you know, you can smell the blood. He's all there for the yeah.

25:45Oti: and just leave it. Yeah. You gotta tell me all those lioness be like, yeah, let's just chill here. We can smell the blood, but you know what? We are not gonna come for it. Yeah. I don't, I don't

25:56KT: it actually. You're right. So not only do we have a lion branch of the Continental in the John Wick series, we also have a lion branch of the Cullens in Twilight. Maybe they were like vegetarians. So they didn't feast on humans.

26:12Oti: maybe they're getting their blood from, you know, the clinic at the corner,

26:16KT: possibly.

26:17Oti: Yeah. Um

26:19KT: but it, it, it, it made no sense. And it was so frustrating because it talked about how dangerous these fucking lions are. And then the power, again, the power of lion friendship just tied everything into a neat tidy boat. But I guess I would like to dabble into lions in a moment. Cause I would like to see the way that they portray humans, because we are portraying lions, being our best friends, but I'm pretty sure it's the opposite way around.

26:43Oti: it's. Yeah. Um, I think the, the disconnect here for me was I, I could get that, you know, what the rogue lion had to go. It had trespassed into a territory.

26:55Oti: That's not his, and that's a Nono mm-hmm,

26:58Oti: it's fine. I understand that. They explained it early in the movie as

27:01KT: kingdom and all that. Yeah.

27:03Oti: but you have a, a bleeding man down there. nowhere that guy walks out

27:09KT: prime, prime rib.

27:14Oti: yeah, that's a, that's sort of a lazy ass dinner for you, you know?

27:18KT: Um, we didn't get to address Martin's character. And again, again, we are kind of coming to nationality and ethnicity again. Um, Dr. Nate, I seem to have a lot of qualms, quarrels and quandaries when it comes to Dr. Nate. But so I get that he's American, or as we've established from the accent potentially he's American.

27:38KT: Yeah. So he's in America. And as far as we understand, he met his wife in America. But his wife is from South Africa. His wife is from the same village and Martin, I don't know if we're gonna talk about it. I've got time, but I don't know if we're gonna talk about it because he kept visiting the village, but he's not from the village.

27:57Oti: Oh,

27:59KT: there was a rooster in the co. Um, but yeah, so what I didn't get or what I personally didn't. Stand because let, let's be very clear for all of the qualms quarrels and quands that I had with Dr. Nate. That would be me. That would be me and our dog in Kenya. If you weren't there, like I know I wouldn't be useful.

28:20KT: I wouldn't be able to save anyone and I would definitely meet my end inside of a lion's mouth. I understand that. But what I didn't understand is he was married to her and they had to have been together for a good chunk of time. He never went to visit her village.

28:35Oti: It doesn't seem like he ever visited

28:37KT: because it's not even about whether he can speak the language or not. It's like, everything was new to him. Like when he and I, I also shout outs because the, um, little plane was called Impala Air, which I thought was very nice. Um, but he didn't seem to have any sort of like contextual cue clues of what was around him.

28:58Oti: Yeah. He's he is new. He's an American boy. He , he needs the landmark to know where he is, which are fine in between, in, um, in Africa, especially in the jungle mm-hmm so I can understand him not knowing where he was, but there was, uh, he had mentioned.

29:18KT: Oh, it's been awhile. You still have these pictures here. So meaning that he had visit is been there, but this has been to Martin's house before. It's just been a long, long time, you know, shit's been forgotten. Okay. Interesting. And what, was there anything that was, I'm going to 60 Minutes you, if you're nasty, was there anything stirring within you to see a black man know much, much less about the motherland of the white.

29:45Oti: It felt wrong, man. um,

29:48KT: no, just, I just, I thought we would have a good giggle gaggle and I was, I just needed to ask

29:53Oti: No, it did it did. I was like, uh, mate, you need to do more research here. your wife is from that place. Come on now. Come on. Yeah. You know, I, I'm not saying you even need to know more than, than, than Martin.

30:06Oti: Just just know the basics. Yeah. Know the basics of the place. Yeah. Know, know where, know how to, to no way west village was Uhhuh. You know, know how to say hello? Yeah, I, I expected to, I expected him to do more or to do better there.

30:26KT: Cause like at, at the start of the film, the visual is undeniable. You can visually it, you know, and whether you have a conflict with it, I guess is up to you, friends and lovers, but you know, visually I was kind of uncomfortable with it. Even him being the expert of, of the, of the reservation and of all of the animals, it kind of bothered me.

30:46KT: But also if you go on safari, friends and lovers, You're probably going to see white people, um, at the head of at least the bigger successful sort of tourism operators. Right. So I was like, okay, fine. I'll I'll work within myself to accept that. But to be fair, as the film continued going, it was made very clear that Dr. Nate knew shit all like aside from being a doctor, like he didn't know anything

31:10Oti: yeah. And that was underwhelming. He needed to do the work.

31:13KT: He did need to do the work. Absolutely.

31:16Oti: Mm-hmm

31:17KT: is there anything else you wanna say about Martin's character?

31:19Oti: No, he was a good uncle. Uh, he resonated well with the daughters. He understood them. He showed interest in Meredith's work Uhhuh, you know, um, you could tell that they were really close with the wife, which I always thought though. Would've definitely been something there.

31:35KT: yeah, we, we didn't see the little chars in the end credit. Yeah.

31:41Oti: uh, but he, he was an overall good character, you know, to have, and that he, he sort of encapsulated the, the sort of symbolic father role for the girls. Yeah. That Nate couldn't do you know, he, he sacrificed himself for the girls. He gave advice. He was there. He listened and yeah, man, he, he could not put a foot wrong.

32:01KT: No, I don't. I don't think there was a moment where he would've been given an opportunity to not be the, I guess, perfect. In, in relative to like Dr.

32:10KT: Nate's character, he kind of was, um, the perfect character. He kind of brought, he brought something different to the film as well. Like you kind of felt like he had the reins of what was happening around them. Um, but yeah, I like, I loved having him there. Um, it was, but yeah, the, the white savior sort of, um, not on a grand scale, um, but friends and lovers go and check out our District 9 episode, shout out to our lovely sweetie boys, Film Busters, um, to this day, our biggest podcast, five people on the mic. Um, but yeah, like obviously it was different and you know, we're seeing a different side of South Africa because obviously, um, in District 9, we're tackling. Sort of entrenched themes with the country's history. Um, but you know, it was very like, it was undeniable, but maybe it just happened to be, you know, but again, when you, when you have a white man knowing more about Africa than a black man, even though he's from America, like visually.

33:12KT: It created a complex is awesome. Saying friends and lovers. If, if you haven't already, um, watched Riders of Justice, you should, um, and listen to our episode on it, because that is a beautiful example of a father trying to navigate grief with his daughter. Um, so I would recommend you go and watch that. I just wanted to talk a little bit because we've, we've been, we've been out with the lions.

33:34KT: We've been out with the supernatural. Power of friendship. I kind of just wanna talk about grief just very briefly, because that's kind of the catalyst of this film. Um, and it kind of creates the dynamic that never would've been created with, you know, Dr. Nate and his daughters. What were your thoughts on the way that he was. Not even handling what, what were your thoughts on the way he was choosing to not handle the situation of grieving his wife and, you know, coming together with his daughters

34:04Oti: He handled it like crap. Uh, I think he admitted as much. He, he said that he didn't know, and he missed the signs and the signals. And when he left, he just, you know, it's all of those things that he regrets. So I, I can have some sympathy for him there that it all happened after he was

34:23KT: Mm-hmm

34:24Oti: but once he found out, it seemed like.

34:27KT: He waited up until the wife was dead for him to come in. but where was he in the last year? Cause that's what Meredith was saying. Where were you in the last year? Yeah,

34:34Oti: that's what I was like, bro. come on now.

34:39KT: Like who, who are you, Dream from Sandman?

34:43Oti: yeah, maybe he was captured under the world, man.

34:46KT: Yeah

34:47Oti: But yeah, I think that was one of the things that his flaws a character in, as much as we don't get much character development for him, he does at least see the error of his ways and he's trying to be there.

34:58KT: Yeah.

34:59Oti: So at the start of the movie, he's fully aware of what he needs to do at the end of the movie. It's more okay. We fucking survived. So let's, hopefully this will be a nice bonding opportunity.

35:09KT: Okay.

35:09Oti: rather than, oh, I've done the work. I, I, I need to, you know, cause there's still no connection with the daughters outside of, you know, saving them, which maybe creates that bond.

35:18KT: And I think, you know, I, I think it, it makes sense. I can understand why they melded together. Like survival, literal survival with, you know, reconnecting with his daughters. But I do think adding that element of survival kind of took away from the core cause the core was the relationship between Nate and his daughters. And I don't think that was necessarily explored or developed through the story line of survival case in point, leaving Norah in the.

35:49KT: Like like if it was used to bolster the, the growth and, and the connection between his daughters, I think it would've done quite well for me. If they had stayed in New York and focused on that grief element, I think that would've been a more compelling or maybe that would've revealed that there wasn't any sort of compelling through lines with me.

36:10Oti: Yeah, I hear that. I think one of the biggest qualms for me at the very least is we get this movie shot in Africa about, you know, safari, whatnot, but a, the, the, the PO guy head is a white guy. Uh, the guy running the safari lodge is a white guy.

36:31KT: Mm-hmm I'm like, bro, come on. Feel it, Oti. Feel it,

36:35Oti: people in the background, you know, being the ones eating fast, I'm like, come on, come on. Why? Why could the leader of the poaches be a black guy from South Africa? Because they had a couple of actors from there. Yeah. You know, it's not that the talent was in there.

36:50KT: Is this your, is this your White Lotus? I'm

36:52Oti: I'm just saying, know, I'll a lot of the time, especially when in fucking 20, 22, you gotta do better in that regard, Uhhuh , you know, it doesn't have to be. Oh, let's just put the white faces there because I don't know. You know, I understand most of these lodges are run by white folks.

37:10KT: Mm-hmm give an African guy the Poro. I'm just saying Hey, don't do that.

37:16Oti: have, they don't have to be in the background. Some subject to some fucking man.

37:20KT: Yeah.

37:20Oti: They can kill other animals for their profit by the. They can do bad by themselves. Tyler Perry said so as well,

37:27KT: you

37:28Oti: the opportunity, bro.

37:29KT: Are you working with Tyler Perry.

37:30Oti: Yeah, now that's just a, one of the things that I, I took load of and I saw was like, come on now,

37:38KT: like how, how in the 2020s are we making films about not even if we're not even talking about like Nate's family, how are we in the 2020s setting a film in Africa and not having African leads, black African leads. Let me make a distinction.

37:55Oti: And, and just not, not even prominent, he wasn't in a pre position. Cause the PO guy was barely shown, but he had lines.

38:03KT: And can we talk about how brutally all the black Africans were killed?

38:07Oti: Yeah. But like even the only person who had, who was African and had some lines was Kamo. Yeah. You know, was black, African was scam and he was shown for a second flooding with Meredith or some.

38:19KT: Yeah. just, just, just That could be a, I don't know. I don't know. I dunno. It just felt like a missed opportunity, but then it's not fucking Will Packer's job. It's just one of those things that I saw as an African and I was like, ha fucking L live die in Africa. But don't get casted. Right? get cast, get casted.

38:45Oti: will be in the background getting eaten fast. it's all good. it's all right. we'll get our, our creams at least, you know, in there.

38:57KT: I'm glad we found your White Lotus

38:59Oti: Nah No, it's not even to that degree. It's just all of those things that I was like, yeah, come on. and it's Will Packer. I think that's what, what's more disappointing. It's by black people and I'm like, yeah,

39:14KT: Hey I, I thought, I thought you were a United front in a public space.

39:18Oti: We are I can still say it because I come with my, um, bias

39:27KT: Who are you fighting?

39:27Oti: fighting. So I'm not fighting anyone.

39:29KT: I'll fight you don't fight Will Packer. I'll fight you.

39:34Oti: Well, they don't need to do shit and they show that I did it to do. It's all of those things. I was like, it's a missed opportunity. Just there's people out there.

39:41KT: It's easy to get them. They everywhere. Well, I guess it's high time. We support, uh, localized talent, right? Telling their own fucking stories. Right? Oti.

39:51Oti: Yeah.

39:53KT: Woohoo. I'm feeling spicy after hearing, uh, Oti's Jupiter cock in my ear. We're gonna finish off an segment we call For Your Reference, Oti.

40:04Oti: If you wanna watch Idris in another African movie, I'd recommend Sometimes in April.

40:09KT: It's about the genocide in Rwanda. Yeah. Just to keep a light. Hey, Uh, I am traveling to Nairobi, Oti. Would you believe?

40:18Oti: Oh, welcome. Karibu Hmm.

40:22KT: you doing the shocking and driving for the tourists?

40:24Oti: Yeah.

40:24KT: on their way to the village to take picture with the kids.

40:27Oti: Oh, for sure. I'll be PAing with you.

40:28KT: you um, so this. Is a wonderful Kenyan film. It's also available on Netflix. It's got themes of literal survival from the wildlife, as well as survival from human sort of dynamics. It's interesting. It's it's it keeps you on the tip of your toes. Um, and it also centers blackness.

40:53Oti: mm-hmm

40:54KT: If you would like to know how we center blackness on Twitter and Instagram, we're at ForYourRefPod.

40:59Oti: write us an email. hello@fyrpodcast.com.

41:02KT: We're also Idris is a daddy, but he'll leave you to fend for yourself in the Jeep podcast. If you like to leave a rating and review, and we'll see you guys next week,

41:12Oti: See ya.

41:13KT: you Bye.