Audition – The Master Roshi Index

Full transcript of Audition – The Master Roshi Index.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, and it is another year around the podcast on Oti.

0:06Oti: Tell the simps at the BK

0:08KT: Simps are welcome in the For Your Reference household for four years. Oti.

0:14Oti: Yeah. Wild isn't it?

0:15KT: What? Exciting times and very embarrassingly. I think you can trace all of the simps through our Reference Degustation.

0:23Oti: Mm-hmm.

0:23KT: Um, I would say that I am definitely a simp for our first Reference Degustation, Miyazaki. We've also covered Taika Waititi as well as Quentin Jerome Tarantino. And this year it's gonna get nasty. It's going to get questionable, but we've got each other friends and lovers

0:41Oti: Mm-hmm.

0:43KT: Are you ready, Oti?

0:45Oti: I am ready.

0:46KT: We've watched Audition, and I think that's as far as we have dabbled into

0:54Oti: That's as deep as we've gone,

0:57KT: I would say. I'm very excited. Please check in with us for our mental check-in for the rest of the films. Mm-hmm. , let's get on with the show for. welcome back to the For Your Reference Podcast. You got your host, KT. Welcome to the sad cult of simps, dinosaurs and taxi doilies. Press record on the self-tape of manufactured desire with Audition this week.

1:42Oti: Woohoo.

1:44KT: Woo. Wow. I, and I also feel like this might be the milder of the selections we have for this Degustation, Oti.

1:59Oti: I think you're right.

2:00KT: How are you feeling?

2:02Oti: I'm excited. I'm excited. I know we'll get into first impressions, but it felt, I'm, I'm just excited to delve into this. I think this is one of the, this is the second one I've been really excited for, apart from me and exactly what we didd. Okay. So I, I'm

2:18KT: A booth territory.

2:19Oti: Yeah. I'm excited to see where we had with

2:21KT: Okay. Well let's get into general stats and information so we can ride it and it off. We need to get, you know, we need to use that on the soundboard, Oti.

2:31Oti: Oh for sure.

2:32KT: Director, loved and lauded all around the world. In regards to writing, it's based on the novel by Ryu Murakami. We have screenplay by Daisuke Tengan in regards. To when it was released. And very interestingly, he is a man of mystique and I'm slowly getting to understand and not understand Takashi Miike because he is notoriously known for making lots of, lots of films. And I think Audition is the longest stint of filming and even that was only a few weeks.

3:06Oti: He is like 75 plus

3:08KT: Yeah. Two of the films , two of the films we have, I think it might even be over a hundred, but two of the films he has are released in the same. Uh, but Audition was released in October of 1999 in the Vancouver International Film Festival. In regards to actors, we have Ryo Ishibashi, Eihi Shiina, as well as Tetsu Sawaki.

3:29KT: Oh, wow, wow, wow. So, I guess just to give a general sort of benchmark, um, for the calling sheet, if you. We have watched Audition, um, and we knew we were going to re-watch it as a part of the other films as well. So it'll be interesting to see how it all stacks up. Um, but how do you feel, how do you feel now watching it? We've, we've already mentioned spoilers, so feel free to go all the way with it. It's interesting cuz Takashi also talks about him not liking bloody horror.

3:59Oti: Has he seen his movies?

4:02KT: Could you be any more Friends? Reference Um, so how did you feel rewatching Audition or even how you felt initially to now?

4:12Oti: So I think initially, it blew my mind. I don't know. I, I felt like it, I was more disturbed

4:21KT: Uhhuh

4:21Oti: it compared to now having rewatched and I felt okay. I think the horror, the shock, the shock effect of it wore off because I knew what to expect and it made me now sit back and enjoy it a bit more for what it is. if that makes sense. In as much as you can do that with those two disgusting. But ,

4:44KT: I like how you just had to get that out there, just , just so people are clear on your stance.

4:49Oti: Yeah. fact. Cause I think initially you might understand and because we had a lot of, we had a lot of cutbacks, you know, and fragmented segments of memories or how sort of thought the

5:06KT: okay. We do have a theme

5:08Oti: on like, I, I was, I was bouncing my head off and I think watching it the second time. I got a bit more clarity. I still had questions that I wanted to find out more on, but at least it got me closer to the edge.

5:21KT: Okay.

5:22Oti: What about you?

5:24KT: Um, I, I agree with you. I was very impressed by Audition when I first watched it.

5:30KT: Um, obviously the, the shock horror and, you know, the, the notes that it was supposed to be hitting definitely hit. The first time, but you're right, watching it again this time, I think if, if we can all be generous, we can talk about, uh, globally the consumability of morose morbid sort of shit, whether it's in fiction or whether it's in real life, has made us perhaps desensitized to the, um, you know, the magic of filmmaking and that sort of, Oh, we're just fucking gross. I don't, I dunno which one it is. Friends and lovers, feel free to chime in wherever you feel

6:09Oti: me colomb stuff,

6:11KT: Yeah. So, um, in, in that sense, I was a bit worried because, you know, the whole premise of this film, um, is essentially to, to use it as a personal sort of dating service, which is fucking gross, right. Um, But it didn't necessarily seep into my inner call.

6:32KT: And maybe it's because I already had that experience the first time watching it. I'm not sure. But you are right. I don't think it's the takeaway from Audition the film, but I think it is to be said if I maybe Greg from Succession um, that the, the intensity wasn't necessarily at the high sort of stakes that we felt watching it for the first time, for example.

6:56Oti: Mm. Yeah, because I think a lot of the scenes and, and, and the shots were more for the shock value, and I think once you've experienced it first-hand than you know, what you expect, then you can now focus more on what's being said and what's being shown, rather than, ooh, fucking hell. What, what is he doing?

7:14Oti: Yeah. You know, because there was initially a lot of gasping moments I remember. I gasped a lot of the first time watching it. I was like, wait, what? I couldn't re I couldn't imagine what I was watching. Yeah. And

7:26KT: don't worry, I've got the audition scene for us to talk about.

7:29Oti: Nice.

7:31KT: Um, so shout outs to our patrons, um, that were courageous enough to join us in some common and recurring themes. Friends and lovers, we are embarking on this journey really right now, so we're not sure whether we would recommend you watch and listen along with us, but we welcome you on this.

7:53Oti: A hundred percent.

7:54KT: Are you ready to get into some themes?

7:56Oti: Let's do it.

7:58KT: I just wanna talk very generally about the cinematography in this film. Obviously, we can also talk about soundtrack and score as well, which I do wanna touch on a little bit. But I kind of wanna talk about the visuals in this film because again, we have watched this film before. I didn't remember the. I didn't remember a lot about this film, but there were scenes that were like apparently seared into my brain and it's just been sitting there.

8:24Oti: Yeah, like I'm with you. There were bits where I was sort of, Not even fully remembering certain plot points in the movie, but once you see a shot, it all comes just rushing back. Yeah, and I think that's, A takeaway for how he did his cinematography and, and how it created that lasting effect. Yeah. You know, I, I, I mean, I expect in x number of years when, and if we rewatch this again, it'll be the same thing Yeah.

8:53Oti: Where we can see it short and we can re remember something that happened and try and contrast how we felt about it then and now.

9:01KT: Um, I would also say that I, I was aware of the lingering sort of piano score that was happening throughout the film, and I feel like a little bit of that is lost, like watching recent films, like even the films that came out in 2022. It's cool to have silence in scenes, but I really felt like the piano, especially in the haunting moments where Asami, Aoyama would be like having dinner for example, and it really helped to like build the tension.

9:28KT: I really appreciated how, you know, that would weave with the visuals as well in the film.

9:33Oti: Yeah, but it, it, it feels like for the time though, at least to me, I do understand I'm a good, I'm a firm believer in silence can elevate a scene to max level sometimes. And a score can also elevate it, you

9:49KT: I'm not saying there weren't quiet moments in this film, but I'm just saying it helped to like elevate.

9:55Oti: Oh yeah. A hundred percent

9:56KT: The emotion, um, in the scene. Uh, something else, just like general sort of, um, you know, discussion points across Takashi Miike's films. Commentary on Japan slash the world. So I don't know how much this is going to follow us in the films that we're going to be covering, but I thought it was quite interesting.

10:17KT: There were, there were quite a few lines about Japan in particular, but I also put world because we might also see that, um, in other films as well. That wasn't something I was expecting. It's definitely not something I necessarily remember the first time. we see Aoyama and Yoshikawa looking at footage. I personally think it was a crowd for an idol show, but they didn't really specify what it was.

10:44KT: But you could see adults having a good time and cheering and that sort of thing, and Yoshikawa talks about how, you know, it's a sad cult. No one's very really happy in Japan. It wasn't a general sort of comment of people, adults being unhappy. It was a very specific comment about Japan and there's, there's, there's quite a few lines throughout the film that kind of hint to the state of Japan and the maybe the sort of dissonance, but just generally the sort of commentary.

11:11Oti: yeah, even the loneliness. And I think that's one of the things that they covered. You know, they talk about how a lot of people are. And that's one of the things that we tend to see a lot of documentaries about as well. Um, and, and I think how it's sort of ingrained in this sort of paints the picture. And I think it also speaks to Aoyama as a character, uh, as a protagonist in this, how he saw the world and how he experienced

11:38KT: Mm-hmm. Interesting. And I guess while we're here and who knew friends and lovers who knew your friends and lovers at the For Your Reference podcast will be able to tie in Takashi Miike as well as Michaela Coel. Because in I May Destroy You, one of the compelling sort of lingering themes in the background was about general sort of lone.

12:00KT: Right. Um, and you know, even in Japan there's a term for it called where, you know, socially exclusion and talking about the growing population of those that feel alone and might not necessarily have any sort of social ties in that sort of thing. And this was, you know, in the nineties as well. So definitely a theme that needed to be addressed. But again, it, it was weaved, if you'll pardon the pun so effortlessly throughout this film.

12:26Oti: Oh, a hundred percent.

12:27KT: I think even the son Shigehiko also talked about loneliness as well.

12:33Oti: Yeah. It, it's, it's a running occurrence within the movie and we get to see. um, Aoyama at least tries to deal with it. and from his point of view, which is a bit skewer, but I know we'll get to

12:46KT: Yeah, well there was also like, it was literally the first scene at the start of the film saying, you know, I'd rather girls than big Imaginary Fishes . I don't think that was specific to Japan, but, um, I really enjoyed that. And I'm also looking forward to the films that we're gonna be covering, just to see if there's any sort of like commentary in general. The next theme that I have, and we've already talked about spoilers, is what is real and what is not in the Miike world.

13:21Oti: Okay. I see where you're going with this. Uh, from my perspective watching this movie, I thought Aoyama was perceived, his interactions with Asami in a certain way. Okay. Up until. His ideal of the perfect woman that he imagined when the, when that veneer sort of faded, that's where he is like, oh. Now I started to remember how, Asami told me, how she was in this perfect, beautiful flower untainted by the world who has all this resilience of, of conquering not being able to dance anymore.

13:58Oti: Yeah. You know, I was like, okay, this do, it needs to come down for a bit, you know? And.

14:04KT: Bro, he had to take the day off because he couldn't call her. That's the level of simp. You'll see ancient hieroglyphics of him.

14:15Oti: Yeah. The simp game was from way back But it's interesting right, because I don't know the, your interpretation with this, whether it's true or not. I think he just saw it. I'm, I'm the good guy in this. He didn't see himself as having a cake views and up to the point he put Asami on a pedestal until everything started crashing down and him saying that, oh, Asami is in this untainted flower in the garden.

14:49KT: Okay, we need to nip that in the bud. If you'll pardon the pun. Right now we need, we absolutely need to nip it. So there, there's, there's quite a lot I wanna unpack in regards to what you just said. But the first sort of initial, you know, sort of thread that I wanna pull on right now is, You laugh and you make a joke at simp level.

15:12KT: But he literally was a simp. There was, once he read the essay, there was nothing. There was na, there was zero. Anyone including Yoshikawa could do. Like, he was already fixated on her. He was infatuated with her. There was nothing that anyone could do to keep him from, you know, building this sort of, um, like you said, this

15:36Oti: idealistic model of what Asami is

15:38KT: Exactly. There was nothing, there was nothing that he could be told. Even I think it was late at night, he got that call saying, um, that her boss didn't work at ACE Records for ages and no one knows, and no one can be able to verify. That was even before Yoshikawa even said anything. Mm-hmm. Right. Just as a, Hey bro, heads up.

15:57KT: Yeah. So at that point I don't think there's anything else that he could have said. So that goes to the next part that I want to talk, or is there anything you wanted to say in regards to that? I think we agree. I think as King Simp, you identify real, recognize real, hey,

16:13Oti: Yeah. Simp. Yeah, simp game is strong

16:17KT: So, so the next thread that I wanted to pull on is, I think we can both agree that up until there was a turning point in the film, the portrayal of the relationship was from Aoyama's perspective, right?

16:30Oti: Yes.

16:32KT: Okay. So now we, we kind of made a fork in the road. What we were presented was Asami being this perfect, you know, auntie. But can we also, also also, also also acknowledge friends and lovers? Yes. She couldn't do ballet and it kind of ruined her, her career and her prospects and everything she put her energy into.

16:56KT: But you know, Aoyama kept saying, oh, you know, you're so young to be even in the audition scene, he didn't even ask a question. He was like, oh, you're so amazing. You're so great. Splooshie, splooshie under the table, right? The way that people build resilience in this world is from Unfucking for ability, right?

17:19Oti: Yeah.

17:20KT: It's going through hard shit in life. How do you think she gets so much wisdom like that? It's not just because she couldn't be a ballet dancer, but I guess that goes back to the first point of it didn't matter, even if Asami was saying it right to his face, he was still going to build her up as this, you know, untainted angel

17:40Oti: So to add your fork in the road is. Only after he had slept with her,

17:47KT: Hey,

17:48Oti: did things start unraveling?

17:50KT: Can we talk about it? bra

17:55Oti: right?

17:56KT: I sal you, but you are the one without value. Fuck off.

18:00Oti: Mm. From his perspective of him still being the so-called good guy, he goes through this process of trying to find Asami. He does everything. He goes through this. Uh, school studio where she used to train. He goes to the stone fish bar. and all this. We are

18:20KT: I just, sorry, I'm getting distracted. That tongue on the floor is gonna distract me forever.

18:25Oti: Yeah. It stays with you, doesn't it?

18:27KT: Doesn't tongue wagon on the floor? Look it up. For me. For me, for me.

18:34Oti: Bruno must clearly missed a beat right there. Um,

18:37KT: Tan if you're Nest

18:40Oti: but it speaks to it further, speaks to the perspective or the real, or not real world, because from his perspective, he did everything good.

18:51KT: cordial. Gentlemen,

18:52Oti: a cordial gentleman even before they had. He was like, oh, like Asami is right there stripping, and he's like, oh, we can go to the coffee house, we can go to the bar. We can go somewhere else.

19:03KT: he's going whoop.

19:03Oti: I'm like, bro, you don't see what's in front of you. Who, who, who does that? It even felt unrealistic to me. Yeah. I was like, what is

19:11KT: What is this fast?

19:12Oti: is it pretending? Yeah. Only to r as much later when, when we started getting flashbacks of what was actually happening, or at least once the veil of Ooh, Asami, the, the, the untainted flower started falling apart. Yeah. Then we see a flashback, or not even a flashback, a version of, of maybe what was, of what transpired. Yeah. You know, It wasn't about, Ooh, I actually don't, oh, what is this? I don't even have a dick.

19:41KT: I don't, I don't usually do

19:43Oti: I don't, Ugh. You want me to remove my shot? I don't even know how to unbutton my

19:47KT: I'm so pure. I don't even watch pixelated porn.

19:52Oti: guy. You know? And the one thing that was really weird, and from my fastest, I didn't even remember this, was the s.

20:01KT: Yeah. Yes, actually, yeah.

20:03Oti: like why is the secretary doing puppy-dog eyes to him? You know? Yeah. I was like,

20:07KT: and she's like, I'm getting engaged. Big

20:09Oti: yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay. Why are you still standing there? do you wanna invite him?

20:13KT: Uh, no. I thought it was more, she was like asking for leave or something.

20:16Oti: Oh, I'm always on the side. Okay. I, I think I just see the Devi side of everything. I, I thought , I thought she wanted him to be like, You can't get married because I love you.

20:32KT: I gotta stop playing up. Yeah. Yeah.

20:35Oti: I thought it was that

20:35KT: I gotta get off the proverbial streets.

20:37Oti: as Moe continued where she started showing up and just looking at him without saying anything really. And just, I was like,

20:44KT: That add, that actually adds an extra layer because it all felt very banal when we watched it before the, you know, sort of shift or the fork in the road as we say. But when we, because the way she was acting was like she was trying to get to him, but then we found out that they had already fucked, right? So that just turns him into a dirt bag.

21:06Oti: Yeah.

21:07KT: So all of, and can I also say I really don't, and, um, Oti, I hope you're proud of me. I do have a theme after all of these questions called the Master Roshi Index. And I would like to , I would like to incorporate that into all of our review episodes, um, which we can talk about later about, you know, the perverted nature of the premise of this film. However, What I wanna talk about a, about Aoyama in particular. I didn't care for the pretension because it was very disingenuous.

21:39KT: Like you said, oh, we can go to heaven, some cheesecake, bruh. She's trying to bake the cheesecake right in front of you. Trying to drip, trying to drip that strawberry man moon sauce all over you mate. Mm-hmm. . Right? And even during the audition scene, he's like, oh, I feel like I'm a criminal, but bring out the bitches, Like

22:03Oti: was the perfect gentleman in

22:06KT: Like two perfect. Two perfect. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

22:08Oti: Yeah. And, and when that started fading for me was, at that moment when he was just sitting there saying how they could go to the coffee house or the bar, or walk in the park. I was like, this doesn't make sense. What is this? for an old man, not even now for a man who, who for me at least thought hadn't had sex for seven years. Yeah, because,

22:32KT: yeah. Yeah. We're doing the timeline, right? Yeah. We're doing the timeline.

22:35Oti: years wife died. Seven years. He's not been with anyone, and I just. He, he is been blue balling. That's why he was so infatuated and kept all this simping, simping energy.

22:48KT: Because he was moving. Yeah, he was moving

22:50Oti: was like, oh man, you know, I thought this is why. They should show in schools, man, masturbation is key. Post-nut clarity is a thing.

22:59KT: Oh, absolutely.

23:00Oti: not

23:01KT: post being clarity is also a thing too.

23:04Oti: This guy was so fucking infatuated agent, he didn't even care what Asami said. You know, he, he read some random, he, he read the CVs like, oh my god. He formed beers. Yes. He had how? He had a vision board planned out.

23:19KT: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And it, but that's what I don't like because as much as you would be repulsed by Yoshikawa, at least he presents himself in the perverted nature that he is.

23:34Oti: Yeah. A a and he had the sense of saying, something isn't right here, . Yeah.

23:39KT: But that's what I don't like about Aoyama. Cuz even when, you know, they were talking. I actually can't remember now. It might have been Aoyama. Remember how they were having like drinks at the bar and there were these young girls that were just having fun and giggle goggling out loud in Publix, you know, I'm pretty sure it was, it was one of them and it might have even been Aoyama cuz he was, he talked later about Shigehiko wanting him to get married.

24:03KT: Right. But there was a comment being made about not necessarily them being loose, but how annoying they are and that sort of thing. And I turned to you and I was like, if one of them offered to suck your dick, you're not going to say no.

24:14Oti: Yeah, it was Yoshikawa. She was like, he was like, oh, women now, girls now. Ew. Yeah. Where are the all obedient, you know? Ooh, I'll do everything.

24:25KT: I just didn't like it cuz Aoyama was like, oh, I would like a mature woman then. What the fuck happened? He had Asami eyes for the rest of the, you know what I mean?

24:34Oti: Yeah. I, I hear you. Like,

24:36KT: if that's what you're, if you're attracted to younger women or you wanna try something different after your beloved Ryoko died, then that's cool, bro.

24:44Oti: then bro said he wanted ma mature, a mature woman only for all the CVs to that he looked at. Yeah. Young, young, young, young. Like, where was it? What is this mature woman you looking for?

24:58Oti: Crazy.

24:59KT: can I just say there was also a moment in the audition scene where they had, you know, because obviously with these auditions you would have, you know, models and actresses and that sort of thing. And then they had a lady that looked really nice. I think you would describe her as like an average sort of woman. And there was, so I just hated it and I was like, she's too good for you guys. Fuck off.

25:21Oti: Yeah. You could tell it was done in, for those sort of malicious, sort of chipped laughs and. Something that wouldn't even write today. Yeah. You know, and then I'm like, you had thousands of applications. You should list it out. Yeah. Give her the fucking audacity to interview. Ask her a fucking question. Of course. Don't just show her and then pan away.

25:40KT: That's mean.

25:41Oti: I'm like, what is this? Be better.

25:45KT: Oh, seems like, well, we're getting pro feminist DOI in 2020.

25:49Oti: I've been doing the work.

25:50KT: We know. You keep telling us you've been doing the work. We get it. Well, let's move into stylistic choices, shout outs to Rob the best o from smoke and mirrors. He's gonna kick off with unflinching graphic Nature of violence.

26:08Oti: It was definitely unflinching in this,

26:11KT: Yeah. And it was graphic in nature.

26:14Oti: It was graphic. I think there's a, there's, there's something about being someone, being decapitated. Um, using a string as an instrument,

26:23KT: at the piano,

26:24Oti: you know? Um, the motion, the tension. I'm like, whoa. Yes. and her smile, you know, Asami. Yeah. Like the caustic trust of that was perfect, was super.

26:36KT: Apparently everyone in the cast had worked with Miike before, except for Eihi Shiina who plays Asami.

26:43Oti: Oh, really?

26:44KT: It might've even been one of her first roles

26:46Oti: because she has this face and you see,

26:50KT: but Yoshikawa said it as well.

26:52Oti: you see innocence, but there's a deviousness in

26:55KT: run. I think that's what he said. Yeah.

26:57Oti: I'd be running now. I'd be running as well. And that what kept me gasping the first time I watched it because of how uncomfortable it was. You know, there's one thing seeing someone swing a machete and flip done. Another thing just, you know, and they don't really show you the, the goriness of when it's happening.

27:18Oti: Yeah. It's the scene and the shot focused on Asami doing it. Oh, yes. Just running that string up and down, up and down. I'm like, whoa. Yeah. This is, this is making me uncomfortable. Because you can just picture how gruesome and how painful that is.

27:34KT: Who needs to go to confession? You just need Asami to come over. Lay down the top.

27:42Oti: Were those acupuncture needles?

27:44KT: I don't know. But then what's the difference then

27:46Oti: Put them in and then she like rides up on them. Yeah. I'm like, whoa. What is this?

27:52KT: Yeah,

27:54Oti: It was like , like I think I'm just used to the OG violence, you know, not this intricate shit.

28:02KT: Yeah. Like things outta like, you sit all day thinking about

28:06Oti: Yeah. I'm like, oh man, stop someone. Fuck Back in the good old days, we just get a stubborn . He

28:15KT: 'em right in the face

28:18Oti: Wow. Oh yeah. Like, and that's why it was like weird because I always, the first time I watched it, I remember thinking, what has, what has he done to deserve this? Because it felt so wild. Yeah.

28:33Oti: It felt so, so wild that , because yes, you can say she's, you can, you can put it in a box and be like, she's a psycho. And you can have that mentality that she, she's just doing it because, hey, why not? She likes killing people. Yeah. But then rewatching it, you're like, okay, there's, there's definitely more here. she is been through trauma. He is not really a good person based on how he treated her. And we get to see the sort of real, not real

29:04Oti: reflections of what he thinks or what he perceives to be the truth. And I'm like, okay, . And as much as this looks super violent and gory, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but fuck, you cannot complain,

29:21KT: I just. everything was so unfuck uncomfortable in watching, especially when, but you are right. I, I would say like the, the beacon for the unflinching graphic nature of the violence was Asami's expression.

29:36Oti: Mm. A hundred percent. It was the

29:39KT: not saying something, especially when you have a rolling around big sack in the bedroom, like the fact that Asami is the scariest thing.

29:48Oti: Yeah. The tongues, the, the, the, you know, the working tongues, the ears, the fingers, all that is mundane compared to her, her enjoyment in doing that at the moment, you know, it was just, it was very uncom.

30:05KT: Yeah. Absolutely.

30:06Oti: Mm-hmm.

30:07KT: Um, well let's continue in The uncomfortable, this is coming from the lovely Ben, the interaction between sex and violence. Thoughts.

30:15Oti: Yeah. Like there's a lot of things that you can derive from sort of the fragmented views of what we saw Asami as a kid went through. We know that she was abused.

30:28KT: Yeah.

30:29Oti: to what extent that's a left Your imagination. Mm-hmm. , but we could pretty much put two and two together. And that's one of the things, you know, should get Asami to perform, do the dance, and then punish her for whatever reason. And it felt that, that's one of the things I was like, closed my eyes the first time I saw this movie. I was like, what? What the fuck are they trying to show us here?

30:52KT: Yeah.

30:53Oti: Those insinuation, you know, and tho, tho those like closed shots of the teacher trying to burn Asami or burning Asami. Really? Yeah. You know, and we get this, we got an inclination that it went further than that. And that's one of the correlations of what Asami is trying to fight against because we, we know she is super traumatized. There is a correlation between violence and sex, if you wanna call it.

31:21KT: Well, that's just it. I think there's a, there's, well, there's definitely a distinction between sex and assault. And if we're talking about sex, there was only really one inkling of it. And that was with Aoyama and Asami. But even then, it was just them, her like twirling in the sheets. And that was.

31:41Oti: Yeah, I was like, what position is this

31:43KT: Yeah, absolutely So I, I wouldn't necessarily say it was met in this, I would say the violence is derived, like you said, from um, the trauma and the assault that Asami experienced as a kid. Um, but it, it'll be interesting to see, especially, um, Shout outs to Ben. He did recommend a film that, uh, we search high and low for. So we're very excited. And I'm assuming that theme will come into play, um, in one of the films coming up.

32:11Oti: Mm-hmm.

32:12KT: the next theme that we have is, is kind of the mirror and more addressing of this from Rob. Brutal justification to right the wrongs.

32:22Oti: I think I also covered this a bit when I said that in as much as we got to see the perception of Aoyama on how he was the perfect gentleman.

32:31KT: child. Yeah. Not Whitecliff though.

32:35Oti: We got to see the other side. And I think seeing Asami and understanding Asami, even explaining, telling Aoyama that, you know, I was abused as a kid. I had to go through all this. And he pretty much like didn't even give a shit.

32:51KT: She talked about her, her abuse. She talked about her trauma. No one could verify where she was from. No one even knew. He definitely didn't know where she lived. All of these flags, bro, all of these red flags

33:02Oti: there. There's a lot of red flags. And

33:05KT: that's on him. That's not on Asami.

33:07Oti: And to the point, I was like, what did this guy, the first time I was, oh, watch it. What did this guy do to deserve this? Yeah. But rewatching it Now I'm like, okay, I understand where this, what, what, why all the roads led to that moment. Whether or not it's, it's, it's justifiable. It is to Asami. Yeah. . That's her coping mechanism.

33:29KT: Oh, absolutely.

33:29Oti: Treat all these dirtbags in the same way. They don't deserve their animals and pets and whatever. Yeah. And good for her.

33:38KT: Yeah, absolutely.

33:39Oti: More power.

33:41KT: I agree. Full balls to the wall, all about it. I absolutely agree. That's, that's essentially the crux of it. And you're right, because when we were re-watching this film until we got into like the, the fork in the road, I was like, how do we get from here? Cause obviously we knew that we were going all the way wild. Right? I was like, how do we get from here to there?

34:06KT: Like, I didn't understand. There was a bit of a disconnect because again, a lot of the dates were like very amicable. Right. And very to-do. And then it, it wasn't until we saw perhaps a fracturing, perhaps more of what's closer to reality. I'm like, yeah, fuck this guy,

34:24Oti: Yep.

34:25KT: and it's, you are right. It's absolutely, you know, a, a, a brutal justification, I think is the, Rob said it in the best way. Um, and I, I was all for it. and you're right, we, it's not just through Aoyama, we see it through the other men as well that abused her in her life

34:42Oti: Yeah. And what they got for that.

34:44KT: Mm-hmm. , let's move on. We have from Ben unchecked desire slash passion. I would go with and as IMDb would credit old man in wheelchair. Uh, the abuse continued to happen. Um, you know, even, I think he was a stepfather because they talked about the, um, Asami talked about the stepfather being in a wheelchair, um, and how she would lock herself away, but then you also had the other man as well.

35:14KT: So in that sense, disgusting pedo behavior. I guess could be classified as unchecked passions and then hopefully Asami going around with her brutal justifications of writing wrongs. Hopefully she goes unchecked and she can continue to do that.

35:32Oti: Yep. A hundred percent agree.

35:36KT: Let's move on into casting slash characters. This is from Ben, women in Dominant Positions, and before you even, uh, comment, I do wanna read something that I thought was quite interesting again, from Don Cheezel's, IMDb, internet algorithm. Apparently, and I would say it's a lot of Western sort of interpretations, but apparently there are people and audiences that believe Audition is a feminist film.

36:06Oti: a feminist film,

36:07KT: even though Murakami, who's the novelist, as well as Tengan, who's the screenwriter, as well as Miike, who's the director, have denied any sort of overt sort of feminist themes, especially if you watch the film and the way women are treated. A lot of the stories are spawned off of the men. So obviously I don't agree with this statement, but I just wanna hear your thoughts on that.

36:30Oti: Yeah, I think they just wanna twist this because it, to me, it was very clear, it was from a man's, from a man's

36:36KT: perspective literally

36:37Oti: on what they deemed was appropriate and how they go

36:41KT: an attractive, desirable untainted.

36:45Oti: I think they're just trying to claim it, but I, it's definitely, I didn't see it. I didn't

36:51KT: Yeah. Right.

36:52Oti: Yeah.

36:53KT: Um, I think there's also, if we go back to Ben's woman in, uh, dominant positions, it could also be drawn into our Miyazaki. We had a theme about kids slash females as the lead role in Miyazaki films. Um, so she's not an, Asami's not necessarily the protagonist, but she definitely gets her com or everyone else gets their comeuppance.

37:17Oti: Mm-hmm. , I agree.

37:20KT: I don't know what it looks like. I'm, I'm particularly excited for Visitor Q to see what woman are in dominant positions there.

37:29Oti: from the descriptions. Pretty sure we'll get a few

37:33KT: We kind of talked about it already, but I do kind of wanna coin it and keep it in the For Your Reference Metaverse, the Master Roshi Index. Is there anything else you want to say in regards to that?

37:44Oti: No, we just get pervs galore in this. Um, I think it also ties into them trying to turn this into a feminist movie because of just how stuck it is.

37:55KT: I just, I would like to know who perspective. I would like to know who is claiming this is a feminist film because in what world?

38:03Oti: I I

38:05KT: Um, in the audition scene, we've kind of mentioned the audition scene, but I kind of wanted to spend a little bit of time. There were some questions that were being asked, and there were very, I would say for the time, especially in a film industry like Japan, for example, in the nineties, to very abruptly and very directly ask, would you work in the sex industry?

38:27KT: Would you do sex scenes? You know, it wasn't asked, but it was shown that a woman. Took her bra off as well. There was a woman that came in her bikini. Um, what were your thoughts on that?

38:40Oti: It was gross and it just pointed more to the Master Roshi Index. It showed just how vast this men were. They abused their power

38:50KT: and the industry, the entertainment industry

38:52Oti: They knew even the girl who was saying how she had a friend who was in the porn industry. Yoshikawa was like, oh, I have another role for you. Get your details or

39:04KT: But you laughed. You, you laughed. Very Very rambunctious. You laughed.

39:10Oti: No, but it, it just shows you it, it builds on the index, doesn't it?

39:14KT: Oh, absolutely.

39:15Oti: Mm

39:17KT: Who, who you build on my index. Oti.

39:22Oti: Noise

39:25KT: Um, before we finish off, there are a couple of like little IMDb facts that I just wanna bring up. Um, we've talked about Quentin, Jerome Tarantino, and friends and lovers. Feel free to go and check it out if you haven't checked out our run. Um, but Quentin Jerome Tarantino talks about Audition being a true masterpiece, if there ever was one,

39:44Oti: Okay.

39:45KT: talking about his favorite films between 1992 and 2009.

39:49Oti: it would've just been a better masterpiece if there was an N one in there.

39:53KT: Oh yeah. Absolutely. Course with the hard R. Mm-hmm. Auditioner, Um, and also I thought this, this kind of tickled me, you know, if we talk about Miike saying he doesn't like bloody horror, um, Rob Zombie known to the podcast in our Halloween.

40:15Oti: Mm-hmm.

40:17KT: apparently Rob Zombie admitted he found this movie to be the most creepy and unsettling horror of any horror movie he's ever watched.

40:25Oti: that says a lot

40:25KT: when you creep out Rob Zombie, you know you're onto something.

40:29Oti: Yep. that's some standards. right? Yep.

40:35KT: It's the Miike rating. If you're nasty, Woohoohoo. Thank you friends and lovers for joining us, not only another week in the For Your Reference household, but to kick off our 2023 Reference Degustation.

40:51Oti: Woohoohoo.

40:52KT: Um, unlike our other review episodes, we will recommend the films as a part of this Degustation course offerings: Audition, Visitor Q, Ichi the Killer, as well as mystery film to be named.

41:07Oti: Oh,

41:09KT: Ooh.

41:10Oti: Keeping it spicy.

41:12KT: You know, I keep it

41:14Oti: See you want to you trying to point that Master Roshi Index

41:23KT: if you would like to contribute to the Master Roshi Index on Twitter and Instagram, where at For your bud?

41:28Oti: right? That's an email. Hello podcast.com.

41:31KT: we're also on. Give it a go.

41:36Oti: I'm not sure. As a feminist, I'm allowed to do that podcast

41:42KT: if you'd like to leave a rating and review. We'll see you guys in the next course.

41:47Oti: See ya.

41:47KT: Bye.