Atypical – Laughter is the best Edison

Full transcript of Atypical – Laughter is the best Edison.

0:00KT: Howdy ho. It's another week. Thank you so much for joining us in the For Your Reference household. We just wanted to start off with not necessarily a warning, but I guess just a heads up. We don't have any qualified or any knowledgeable learnings in regards to the autism spectrum. So we do apologize if we are misusing terms. And also we are focusing on the TV show specifically. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and Tektropolis lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT. And Oti.

1:02KT: Dive in with your comfort penguin and try your best to navigate life with a charming support network with well intentions with Atypical this week. Mhmm. Mhmm. We talk a lot about Netflix. This is genuinely recognized in the FYR household as a minted Netflix show premiered in 2017, and it just wrapped up its final season in 2021. Oh. Yeah. I guess this is also a point to say spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, or all the feels, all the feels, all the strawberry chocolate covered feels. Appropriate or not. Right? Mhmm. In regards to the stats and general information,

1:48KT: there is a whole slew of directors that were involved in here, including Michael Patrick Jann, created by Robia Rashid as well as written, executive story editor DJ Ryan in way of cast, The legend, Ridgemont Derry, Jennifer Jason Leigh. Mhmm. The magnificent Tarantino, OG Jerome Tarantino. That made sense to nobody. Keir Gilchrist, Brigette Lundy-Paine, Michael Rapaport, little baby shout out to Nik Dodani as well. Go and listen. Maybe not, but just know that we did cover Escape Room, and he was also in it as well. He was also

2:31KT: at one of the premier events for Never Have I Ever, which is another delightful All The Feels and Netflix show as well. Mhmm. Woo hoo hoo. Alright, Oti. Let's get into first impressions.

2:44Oti: Oh, wow. We watched this together. We did. It's rare. I don't think we've had many of those, but, know, I fully enjoyed it. It's quite wholesome, isn't it?

2:44KT: In United States of Tara,

2:44Oti: We did.

2:44KT: With the ever eternal

3:00KT: universal intergalactic Toni Collette. Oh. And I'm pretty sure we had watched Atypical for a couple of seasons before we dived into United States of Tara as well. But yeah, Keir is an amazing talent and we hope to continue

3:17KT: to see him.

3:17Oti: Oh, for sure. I think it's one of those things that we find it hard to watch or binge stuff unless we get something that's just, you know, they'll keep us on our seat and not even look at the scribble to see how far we've gone, you know? It's

3:17KT: Yeah. Especially because we're home a lot more. It's very tempting,

3:34KT: especially when we're watching like some three hour movie, it becomes very onerous.

3:39Oti: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I fully enjoyed it. I think the characters are great. Sam is amazing. Zahid, oh, perfect partnership

3:50Oti: there.

3:50KT: Every character is beautiful and perfect, and they are not without blemish and they definitely went through all of their own journeys. But I absolutely agree with you in all cadences and in every aspect of this show. I absolutely love this show. And I guess just in general, I think the first time there was a character that wasn't necessarily a side character, but part of an ensemble cast that was on the spectrum was Abed from Community. I think it was the first instance that that was very conscious and

4:26KT: it wasn't shying away, was he, wasn't he. It was quite clear that he was on the spectrum and he was a part of the show and he wasn't part of the butt of the joke as well. So and there was a lot of nice, lovely moments with Abed, Jesus or otherwise. There was some feedback in the first season of the show that there weren't enough people on the spectrum included within the show. So if you notice later on in seasons, there are

4:53KT: people on the spectrum that are a part of the cast and do have more prominent roles as the later seasons start to go in, and it's nice. I'm glad that we are in a space where we can enjoy all different types of stories because I think our, you know, our watching sort of habits, and I feel like people's real watching habits are reflective in TV shows, not just the wankery, cinephileness of it all is reflected in TV. And I think we have a good coverage of international, non English speaking,

5:28KT: all different types of races and ethnicities. But when it comes to different abilities, I do feel like we could do better in regards to our watching habits and effortlessly Atypical just slotted into our I would say weekly, but it really is a weekend binge. I think also we noticed that Sam is a bit more higher functioning. So it did make for some heartfelt, but also some very frustrating moments, I guess, from like a character development point of view, because we we want more out of this situation.

6:05KT: And I guess because Sam has, you know, paved examples where he has done that and he has rise to challenge that he's set for himself, we're expecting it, but also we understand

6:18KT: that life is a long lifelong journey. Right?

6:18Oti: Yeah. True. Because we kinda I think one of the things that I have to keep at the back of our mind is to have the awareness that he is on a spectrum and part of the character development that you mentioned it,

6:32Oti: albeit is I might get wrongly or falsely frustrated or something. I'm like, okay. Alright. Understand. Pull yourself back. You know? It's like watching The Good Doctor and just feeling how

6:32KT: Yeah. Actually. Yeah. Good call out.

6:32Oti: Yeah. Highmore. Yes. Yeah. And and and not being able to sort of pull through with that. So it's very important, I guess. Yeah. And it's it it it it it is character development, but it's a different type.

7:00KT: Right? An atypical no. Please edit wizard. Please please take that out or not. This is your show. Also a little baby shout out to Raul Castillo for being Elsa's sexy man on the side. Yeah.

7:18Oti: And Angela Laquita Moore.

7:21KT: Yes. Look at you Oti.

7:24Oti: No. Like, we didn't realize she was in this. Only realized in the final season and he was like, wait, what?

7:32KT: But if we can give points to me, I noticed Raul in Army of the Dead.

7:32Oti: Yeah. Yeah. I'll give you a mini point there.

7:32KT: My credits are valid in Oti land. How dare you? Alright. Well, let's get into the show. Obviously, this is from the point of view of Sam. We do get some nice little, you know, substories and and plot and broadening of side characters as well. But this the foundation is with Sam and his penguins,

8:04KT: to be perfectly honest. And it does feel very gradual, but if you look at the Sam that we had in season one all the way to the end of the show, he really has come a long way.

8:04Oti: He has. Like, he's he's driving,

8:19Oti: you know? He he was doing things for other people. And the fact that, you know, when Zahid is going through the scare of him having possibly cancer

8:19KT: Testicular cancer.

8:19Oti: Yeah. Like, Sam went back and replayed that conversation in his mind. I don't think season one Sam does that at all. I think yeah. Or at least he understands

8:39KT: that it means something to someone else even if he doesn't necessarily understand it. Because I think there was a part of a narration where he's he can understand that someone is feeling away, particularly in his direction. He just doesn't understand how they got there and how he can get there. Yeah. Really like so heartwarming, you know, relationships that Sam has, you know, even outside of his family. But Sam

9:07KT: as a character is absolutely someone that you wanna root for. You know, Oti, you talked about, and I agree with, there were moments where you're just like, I just want everything to be okay. I want him to be okay. I want everyone he loves to be okay. I want him not to send creepy gifts to his therapist.

9:27Oti: Or take choc-coated strawberries to your therapist.

9:32KT: Yeah. But then let's be real about it. She also like slow danced with him in the car park. Yeah. And I I don't know about you, Oti, but I always left a King James version of the Bible and a Book of Mormon space for Jesus.

9:32Oti: It

9:53Oti: doesn't take much for you to think something is awry. It doesn't take a lot to ruffle ruffle you though. Like, we we did Fatal Attraction. Yeah. And you're like, oh, Michael Douglas, tick tick Glenn Close for coffee. Red flags. Wine.

9:53KT: Apples and oranges, mate.

10:11KT: Albeit horny apples and horny oranges. But I think that's just part of the branding, is it not? Mhmm. But no, that has nothing to do with what I just said because we have an actual professional dancing with her client in a parking lot. It wasn't appropriate, not by any stretch of the means. I think it was nice that we saw like a little bit of her life, but also no bro. It's just a no go bro. We already mentioned spoilers, so I want to get to the overarching

10:44KT: through line that we have in the show, you know, as a coping mechanism, if that's the correct word, You know, Elsa introduced it and Sam latched onto, you know, naming the penguins when he's in really highly stressful situations, being able to recite information just to get his mind to, you know, I guess diffuse all of this stimuli around him. And I thought it was really sweet. And I thought it was a really nice way to end the show that he was going to find his way to Antarctica.

11:20Oti: Did part of you think that he was going to make it?

11:20KT: In the world of television,

11:24KT: yes. In my

11:27KT: realistic cold, cold heart, I'm not so sure.

11:27Oti: I think part of me was with in as much as I wanted him to see him succeed and do it alone, I think part of me was in the same page as Elsa where I'm like, yeah, he'll probably find it too hard and just back off on his own. But when he didn't, he just continued going and really trying to do it by himself. I was like, oh, wow. Oh.

11:27KT: And I think that actually speaks to the dynamics that he has with his personal relationships.

11:57KT: Everyone loves him and they are supportive, but the way that they support him manifest in different ways. Although a lot of it, particularly his family were, for lack of better word, enabling. And the reason why I say that is when Zahid was having his testicular party combined with Sam as well, Paige was kind of at the end of her tether there and she went off. Right? But she was coming from a place of love and she also knows even the most minute of annoyances really get to Sam. Right? Even like the

12:42KT: sorry, I had to use my thighs for the podcast. But you know what I mean? Like, there were things very particular, albeit miniscule annoyances that become unbearable for Sam. So everyone's, you know, cheering Sam and saying, you can do it. You can do it. Aside from Elsa, she had a whole journey about that. But Paige was was very pragmatic about the situation

13:07KT: because through so many examples throughout the show, she was always the first one to go to bat for Sam. And I think she was I I guess it's also because she has the distance because she's not a family member. She she didn't she didn't have her foot firstly into the conscious fact that he was on the spectrum. She just treated him as Sam.

13:07Oti: Yeah. Yeah. True. But I think she could have done it way better than she did. It felt really mean.

13:07KT: Yeah. She just had a bad day though.

13:07Oti: True.

13:40Oti: True. You're allowed to have bad days, but man, it felt a way.

13:40KT: But wait, hang on. Hang on. Let let let's let's be real then. Because we were talking about it while we've been watching it over these years. It must have been very frustrating for Paige because she's such a bubbly sort of person and she takes a lot of care in her presentation. She's very meticulous. She's very organized. She takes a lot of pride in what she does for herself, but definitely

14:10KT: for other people. And there are so many moments where the first person she wants to share her excite like her excitement or any sort of life updates with is Sam, and he gives her nothing. So it must be hard, albeit understandable, it must have been hard for Paige to have that peak of emotion, not like women are bitches be emotional. From the bitch of the podcast. But, you know, like, having that and and understanding that Sam maybe isn't in the position or he's just too focused to be able to reciprocate.

14:50KT: But I think it all kind of came to a head where he was literally going to go and no one was going to stop him without even acknowledging that there were absolutely barriers in order for him to get where he needed to be. And even Sam admitted later on that that actually became very helpful for him in order to prepare. Yeah. So it wasn't it wasn't necessarily Elsa trying to stop Sam at every possible moment, because she which is a whole that's a whole different dynamic.

15:22KT: But Paige, she wasn't saying that you'll never be able to do it. It's just at currently, as we know you, Sam, you would not be able to do it. But then it became some real tangible steps for him to work towards.

15:22Oti: Yeah. It did. It did. And I think the reaction from Casey told us everything. She's

15:41Oti: there for to be the protector. She's there to bounce everyone else that tries to take Sam down and I'm with that.

15:41KT: Interesting because she's the youngest sibling.

15:41Oti: Mhmm. But she's had to look out for Sam since she was young as. Yeah. She's always felt responsible.

15:59KT: Well, let's go to Casey because we're naturally going to talk about Sam throughout these characters. Casey is hands down one of the best supporting characters I've ever seen in a TV show ever. Mhmm. It's it's it's one of those notions where she isn't a perfect character, but she

16:17KT: she's been through a lot and she's been able to process a lot of that as well. It it was a whole series long journey for her, but something like you say at the core of her was she was the protector. It's sad that she's the younger sibling and she felt the need to protect Sam, but obviously it made sense. And I guess also with the family dynamic with Doug kind of stepping out on the family, he came back, but like stepping out on the family,

16:47KT: you know, just knowing how Elsa is as a mother, she probably kind of put that spoken, unspoken pressure on Casey to to check on and check for Sam to make sure that Sam's okay. And I I guess, you know, in in in real life, in in TV shows, you start to see, you know, when there is a sibling that requires more needs and more attention from the parent, by default, the other siblings kind of have to make themselves smaller. And it may like, it it broke my heart watching Casey have to constantly

17:21KT: put herself last and make herself smaller. And, you know, running was so much of what she enjoyed, it was her escape, but then it kind of became suffocating to her as well. And even while we're watching it, I was trying to I was trying to process whether it was just she was feeling too much pressure or whether she just didn't wanna do it anymore, whether she was like consumed with protecting Sam. Like there was so much complexity

17:49KT: to Casey's character.

17:49Oti: There was. And I think part of me, when it came to her running and what running meant for her, it was it was an escape for her and she enjoyed it. But as soon as it turned into, you have to run to get into UCLA and there's scouts and you have to go to this private school for a scholarship. You need to keep your grades up to It was just too much. It's no longer something that you enjoy.

18:13Oti: Yes, she's good at it, but it turned into something different that she couldn't recognize. And how one escape when she felt small that she could run and feel free wasn't there anymore. And we saw the sort of pressure she was biting off her fingernails. It's quite severe.

18:30KT: It's you were waiting for someone to step in.

18:30Oti: Yeah. I'm like, your parents should have seen that shit ages ago.

18:30KT: I think they did, but also at the same time, they were trying to well, it wasn't even just Sam. They had their own shit between the two of them that they were trying to navigate as well. Mhmm. I don't remember which podcast episode it was, but it was obviously to do with cheating as we mentioned in Fatal Attraction. Because in the realms of screen Oti, but also in real life, cheating is very normal. Right?

19:04KT: But I said it in a podcast episode and I'll say it again because between Doug and Elsa, like what Elsa did was fucked up. Yeah. And we'll talk about them. But like with Doug, he kept like going back to things and then Elsa kept like trying to apply rules that she broke herself. Like if you're going to actually have a fulfilling life together, you need to forgive that shit. Yeah. More. Can't keep holding because what's the point then? Or break up like shit. Put on genuine like the rest of us and roll out.

19:40Oti: Yeah. Yeah. If if something like that were to happen, man, if you forgive, you forgive and you fucking move on. Like, no one's asking you to forgive, but if you forgive, don't throw that shit in their face again. If you stepped out, don't get frustrated at them stepping out. I don't know. How could I trust you? Oh, piss off. Get out of town. Just stop it, man.

20:06KT: Going back to Casey, we do explore her journey in her sexuality. You know, she at the start of the series, she's getting into a relationship with Evan and it was a genuine relationship. They both enjoyed each other's company and they both brought out the best in each other. They both encourage each other to want to do more and to genuinely do the hard work that no one wants to do and actually look inward and see what actually makes you happy and not what the world expects of you. But, obviously,

20:47KT: a lot happens throughout the series even in regards to Casey and Evan. And, you know, Casey falls into another relationship with Lizzie. So, you know and for me, when I watch things, I don't put labels on characters. So I I wasn't like, oh, yeah, Casey's straight. Oh, now she's a lesbian. I just I just let characters be. Hey, girl. Hey. Go and listen to our collab with Thanks for Coming of Edge of Seventeen and also listen to our I May Destroy You episode where we talk about Kwame.

21:20KT: I just let characters be. I don't have a right wing Twitter account. Don't worry, friends and lovers. You can cancel me for many things, but not for that. It was nice to see Casey just live and just be, because like you said, it was so regimented and you started to feel it became there was a melancholy that Casey was experiencing, particularly in the second last season where things started to get a bit more stressful for her as well.

21:53KT: It just it became more monotonous. They're like, you need to do more. And she's literally biting her nails off every day. And she's being asked to pull more and more out of her reserve.

21:53Oti: Yeah. Fully agree. Like, it was just too much, too much pressure.

22:08Oti: But the one thing that I did love about it is their relationship or her relationship with Izzy because I liked Izzy unlike some other people.

22:17KT: Okay. Okay. Let's remember that this is Atypical when we're talking about Sam, but I am I do. I do with my invisible watch. I have time today, sir. Do you wanna talk about Izzy? I I realized I called her Lizzy. She's the loser, Izzy. That's why she's Lizzy. Are you ready? Yep. We all go through shit in our lives, friends and lovers. You would have heard that I've gone through shit by many episodes of the podcast. But when you start to feel envious and and that envy is being pointed towards

22:53KT: someone that you love and you're in a romantic relationship with, it's not Casey's fucking fault. And second of all, Casey has had a hard life. And I don't I don't like the idea that that, you know, Izzy in particular, she's sitting there with her non tarot cards trying to equate how hard her life is and how it could never compare. You know, Casey could never understand. You never gave her a chance to understand what you were going through. And obviously,

23:26KT: unless you have that frame of reference, you know, Casey was never going to fully understand what Izzy had to go through. But why is that Casey's burden to bear when she was never even given a fucking chance to start off with, and she never really got to live a full life till the end of the season?

23:45Oti: She did not say that, hey, it's your burden to bear or look at me, feel sorry for me. No, man. She's living with parents who don't with a mother who doesn't appreciate her. Have you heard of nonverbal She has had to to struggle throughout, pretty much be responsible

24:04Oti: for her family.

24:04KT: I get that. I'm not taking that away from her character.

24:04Oti: And and for her to see

24:10Oti: Casey with loving parents that just adore her and do everything for her. It's it's it's she's human, man. She she can feel a way about it.

24:10KT: Okay. Well well, let's go back to

24:23KT: The Sum of Us. Right? Tugger and Russell Crowe all around the world. Greg, his suitor, he had some shit that he needed to work through, and he went away and did the work, and then he came back and they were happy fucking loving couple for the rest of the movie. Right? Izzy didn't have the maturity or she chose not to have the maturity to acknowledge that Casey loved her and will continue to love her. Izzy was so miserable as a person,

24:53KT: she had to go and work on her own shit.

24:53Oti: No. It also felt

24:53KT: How about her no. Hang on. Hang on a second. How dare you, sir? How dare you? How about her blurting out at a party, airing out their dirty laundry? What about that? About because I agree with everything she did. If you're if you're in the crossfire, you stay in the crossfire, sir.

25:16Oti: But she's from a character's perspective, she's she's been through a lot. And

25:16KT: But that's not the thing, bro.

25:16Oti: Even even when you're comparing even when you're comparing the amount of leeway Casey gets, be it from her family, from school,

25:31Oti: she's not afforded any of that.

25:31KT: Yeah. But see, even you're doing it. Put your abacus away. We're not calculating who struggled more in life. Because what's the point

25:31Oti: It of feels that way for her.

25:31KT: But when you're in a romantic relationship with someone, you're not supposed to say, oh, I can do whatever I want to you because I've been through shit in my life. Fuck off then.

25:51Oti: She said, you could get away with a lot more than I can get away with, which is true because we clearly see that. We clearly see that throughout the whole show.

25:51KT: Well, in many cases, some people just aren't meant to be together, mate.

25:51Oti: And if you thought that she was smaller or she didn't really love Casey,

26:12Oti: she wouldn't have broken up with Casey when the dad was like, mate, you're the reason Casey is flanking or not running. You're the reason that everything since you've been into a lot of everything has gone to shit. You know?

26:12KT: That's

26:23KT: Doug's fault. But we also mentioned, you didn't agree, but we mentioned that she's not emotionally mature. None of these people are.

26:23Oti: How dare you?

26:23KT: None. Not one character in this show is emotionally mature. How about Evan's sister and hammering baked goods?

26:40Oti: Okay. She's the only exception.

26:44KT: Let's get away from Izzy because she's barely in the series percentage wise. But I do love Casey. I love her journey. And I just really enjoyed. I enjoyed watching her. The love and that's the difference. Right? The love that you feel within yourself and the love that you give to others is paramount to who you are as a person. Let's focus on Sam's parents while we're in the shouty sort of world. What did you think about Elsa? Because I think she's the character that you could have a lot to say about.

27:22Oti: Nah. She's she's had some real character development in this show though. Yeah. Season one

27:22KT: Everyone

27:29KT: everyone has had character development.

27:31Oti: Yeah. But next second to Sam, it has to be Elsa because she viewed Sam or her life in a very particular way. And he wasn't devoting into something else. He was like, Sam, I'm gonna take care of Sam and do ABC everything for him, not allow him to be himself. And we come to see all the intricacies and the interactions that he has with people that change their mind

27:58Oti: one way or another. And I think granted, I didn't really like her to start off with by the end of it, was like, you know what? You do you Elsa. Mad respect, right? Not that hard, but

27:58KT: No. But when it was

28:12KT: revealed, you know, in the earlier seasons that Doug stepped down the family, it kind of contextualized Elsa, not just as a character, but as a mother. Cause I think naturally mothers always want their kids to be around. And I guess it was just intensified with Elsa caring for Sam because she took pride in the fact that he was so independent and he was able to do so much himself, but that independence meant she had to,

28:42KT: you know, loosen her grip on him. Yeah. Oh, and it's a tough one because, you know, life isn't easy and life doesn't wait for you to deal with one pile of shit before it throws more at you. And I think a lot of her maternal nurturing role, it definitely took her own needs at the back seat. Right? Mhmm. Even if she felt like she wanted to give up or at least need a break or some sort of reprieve,

29:12KT: Doug wasn't there to tag team.

29:12Oti: Yeah. I think that also sort of made protective of Sam. Yeah. Because your loved one should not you should not be getting the world is there to judge you and you'll get shitty people out there all the time.

29:27Oti: You know? And it's the one thing that you'd really expect is your family, your direct family, your loved ones to be there for you regardless.

29:27KT: Oh, absolutely.

29:27Oti: So for Doug to step out, I think Elsa just assumed all the hats and she had to and Casey as well. Yeah. And no one can blame her for that. You

29:45Oti: look at Doug and you're like, yeah, he seems like a decent bloke now, but jeez, I couldn't put it back at the past my head just thinking about it. Yeah. Like how do you even reconcile that? Yeah. Cause even if Doug did some soul searching, it's like, how how can you choose when you come back? And part of me part of me was happy for it to be brought back in the final season when Sam had this

30:09Oti: drawing. He's like, bye, Sam.

30:13Oti: That he he used when the dad walked out, you know? It's

30:17Oti: he has to live with that.

30:17KT: There will always be a missing part of Sam's life that he just wasn't in. And it was nice. I like the way that the way that they filled that gap is he went to Antarctica with Sam. This is also credit to the writing as well. Nothing felt just in the last hour. George R. R. Martin still writing it in the last hour. Like, there were many threads that were woven throughout the series that would lead to, you know, the final sort of character arcs. And Doug leaving

30:54KT: with Sam was one of them. Yeah. And it was reinforced. It was ramped up in the last few episodes. But it was it was definitely nice to have, that closing as well, because it obviously would have hurt. No matter how Sam would have processed it, it obviously would have hurt. It was just very cute in the way that he drew it in the comic, but it's I don't know. Do you think and we're just friends and lovers. We're just talking in the realms of TV shows. Do you think stepping out on the family nullifies

31:25KT: a romp with a bartender? It does. Right? Yeah. Like

31:30Oti: she could have had a drain on her, man. Like, no. It doesn't. It would have been a pass, you know? Just Okay.

31:42KT: It it sounds painful, but so is love, friends and lovers. If you ever wonder why Oti and I are together, it's comments like that. It was a bit touch and go. It was definitely a bit touch and go. Like, when do you get off getting angry at this? Yeah. Be like, you know what? I appreciate you, Elsa. But even but even Doug, like, right before the party, he just, like, casually casually slipped in that he kissed the woman in New York.

32:15KT: How are you how are you gonna play it like that, Doug? That's not right. Mhmm. Yeah. And also, if we're dunking on Doug, I wanna mention something else. Gender roles are a motherfucker. Right? The ones that continue to enforce it are the biggest motherfuckers. But in regards to gender roles, it unfortunately, it doesn't allow men I'm KT'splaining to the men. It doesn't allow men the space to express themselves emotionally unbridled frequently. Right? And this was a problem I had with Doug because his best friend passed away. Right? Which was unfortunate,

32:56KT: but because of his toxic masculinity, inability to express his feelings, it became him being upset at that, what do you call it? The sourdough starter being thrown away. Right? And I'm just like, you can't get mad at Elsa about this. And that's what Elsa was saying as well. You didn't say anything. You're not processing it. You haven't talked about your friend passing away. You haven't gone to the pub to, you know, be with your friends and to be able to decompress and debrief about it. You haven't expressed any sort of grief in any way,

33:33KT: yet you feel the one hope that you felt in this sourdough starter, it all it all dissipated from there. And, you know, it it's it's not perfect in life, and and maybe this is how we as humans imperfectly try to deal with overwhelming grief, but also he needed to be able to communicate that, especially because we were really at the final curtain call of this show.

33:33Oti: Yeah. Yeah. Was like, mate, look at this idiot. He can't even admit he was friends or he was

34:09Oti: the best friend.

34:09KT: Yeah. Like, who did he get off? And I'm getting I'm giving more brownie points to Elsa because she even said to him, you don't to do it in any way, but you have to grieve. It doesn't have to be in any way that I that I am telling you to do it, but you need to fucking face it.

34:09Oti: Yeah. Man, Elsa kind of is the MVP, man. Even though she would have been a lot. When she was at the support group and she was reading everyone to filth.

34:09KT: Yeah.

34:41KT: She she definitely has a lot of misses in this. But I think it's just she she she had herself in the back seat for so long that she kind of overstepped in many ways. Yeah. But at the core, she is a nice person. And she does want the best for everyone, even if she smothers them with love a bit too much. She had little bit of a plot line with her mother as well. Yeah. Which I don't recall because

35:09KT: we've been watching this show as it came out. And then obviously we wait until the next year. So we didn't watch it all, you know, back to back. But I don't recall a lot of subtext in regards to her relationship with her mother. Although it's just throwing comments. Yeah. So but we start to see that she has Alzheimer's or dementia because,

35:34KT: know, Doug and Elsa had talked about it. I was waiting for shit to go down, but nothing happened. And then nothing really happened until the mom got lost somewhere. And then Doug brought her back to the house and then we it was also revealed that she wasn't very nice to Doug either. Yeah. So and then and then there was a moment when she was trying to reach out to Casey and Sam, someone to go with her, to go and see homes for her mother. And

36:01KT: then that ended up being a a nineteen hundreds Archer ruse for Casey. Yeah.

36:07Oti: I think she knew that, you know, if it was Sam, she would have been there and should have pushed Sam if somebody to do something. But with Casey, she always like, you know, you're super responsible. You know what you want and you'd go and get it. But when that started faltering and she was like, yeah, I'm not gonna pursue this because I don't feel like it anymore. Yeah. It wasn't it was unlike her and it was quite good to see Elsa push through because it's been very rare

36:37Oti: that they've given Casey that sort of attention.

36:40KT: Yeah. No. But I would say that wasn't the problem was Elsa went above and beyond a 180% every time. Like, didn't pick her moments to be overbearing. Like, she just did that every single time. But I I do I do agree. It was nice that there was focus specifically on Casey. In in my little cold, cold heart, I do wanna believe beyond what was shown in the series that Sam and Paige stayed together. It

37:09KT: was very frustrating at moments when, you know, Paige was trying to share with Sam and Sam just didn't get it or he was focusing on something else.

37:18KT: But I really do feel like they have a great balance between the two of them.

37:18Oti: Yeah. They do. They do. I think she she's very understanding and she's very patient and and she does she does care for Sam and she does a lot for Sam. And you could see that in the last season, she she was really doubting herself on whether she has to pursue this career path or do something else or just

37:46Oti: stick at the restaurant and whether be a manager there, you know? It wasn't her. She dropped out of college, but seeing Sam know or follow through on what he wanted to do Yeah. Just put a spanner in the works because she was like, that is unexpected. And she did not. And I think that's why the frustration was there when she sort of belted out to Sam that he there's so much so many things that could go wrong when he goes to Antarctica or whatever. Yeah. But, man, she's she's really good in this. I like her.

37:46KT: Oh yeah. And

38:19KT: I think Paige is definitely one of those characters or people that you just know they're going to succeed.

38:26Oti: I think the best, the best part with Paige's when she wanted to hook up with Sam and she was going through ideas on how to get Sam into bed. And the one thing that I walked out in my mind, I thought she'd well she'd gospel like a penguin.

38:26KT: Like a penguin.

38:26Oti: Was just waiting for it. But wow, I did not expect a me tinkle. And that was the most ridiculous thing I've seen.

38:26KT: We don't penguin kink shame

38:56KT: Whatever splooshes at your altar friends and lovers. Yeah. But Paige was a great character. Zahid is also another great character.

38:56Oti: He's a good friend, isn't he?

38:56KT: Oh, he's the bestest of friends. And I think he was also because he wasn't a family member like Paige, he just saw Sam as Sam. And he wasn't trepidatious about introducing or relinquishing house rules because, you know, Sam maybe didn't like it. So it was kind of a good primer for sometimes things just going not the way that he expected.

39:34KT: I don't know if you wanna end on this, but I just have a note and I wanna talk about it. What did you think about Izzy's protest? Whether it's to do with race, gender, sexuality, class, shows like to be able to tackle these sort of issues. Right? And some of them are a bit more substantive than I guess in Atypical, but they did they did bring the the notion of, I guess, class

40:08KT: and in private schools. I just wanted to get your general thoughts because I shared a bit of it while we were watching the show and I thought I'll just leave it for this podcast because we know I love talking about social class.

40:20Oti: I knew that it wasn't gonna change anything. You know, we always say, you know, the purpose of the protest is is to to cause change, you know, it's not to appease whatever, and it's to bring shock to a system. And what Izzy was trying to do

40:20KT: Just bring socks to the system.

40:20Oti: Like, fully agree. Like, why can't they just wear anything? I get it. It's not how it is. It's a private school. It's hoity toity. I get all that. But end of the day, who bloody cares? But like a social media influencer,

40:56KT: the whole appeal, the whole allure of private schools is that exclusivity, the fucking wankeriness of it all. Naming libraries after after your lineage even though your kid doesn't know how to read a fucking book. Right? That's the whole point of private schools. And I a 100% agree with you. It's like the Catholic church. If you, Why would you bother trying to change such an OG institution? There's no point. Like, if you're trying to bring change to that or even to like private schools, there is no point in that because the ideals,

41:34KT: the foundations are built off of that. So yes, it's expression of identity, but it's also unfortunately like in corporate environments, you know, there's this prejudice against like piercings and tattoos and hairstyles. Right? It's not right, but it's I guess it's like you, like what's the offset? If you're going to put your scholarship in particular with Izzy and also Casey, if you're gonna put your scholarship on the line, is it worth it? Yes, it's wrong. And people should be able to express themselves however they want to, but they are operating within an OG institution

42:15KT: that, you know, wanks off to that sort of tradition.

42:15Oti: Yeah. But you could say that, you know, know your place, know the system, know your whatever and just follow suit or you could try and done with easy, like, give it a go.

42:29KT: Well, it a go, but don't be surprised when you get suspended or expelled. And then don't get pissed off when your girlfriend doesn't get the same consequence. Fuck off. No, man. Here I am trying to talk about social class, you're just talking about a character that grinds my gears. Oh, you're welcome. But I just it perturbs me. It absolutely perturbs me but Oti, I love this show. This show was such a nice comfort show that it just gives you all of the feels. And it's again,

43:02KT: it's not a show without blemish. Has characters that have definitely gone through shit, but they come together in the most beautiful of ways. Thank you so much friends and lovers for joining us another week. We're gonna finish off in a segment we call, For Your Reference,

43:18KT: Oti.

43:18Oti: I'm gonna reference another Netflix show, Never Have I Ever.

43:25KT: I will join you on the Netflix train and reference Sex Education. Congratulations to N'Jeri Eaton for being the head of podcast at Netflix. And if by some chance you were listening, we are available. If you wanna see how much of Oti is available on Twitter and Instagram, we're @ForYourRefPod. Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're at seductive choc covered strawberry podcast if you'd like to leave a rating and review. And we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.