Armageddon Time, She Said & The Lost King
Hosted by
KT & Oti
Show Notes
Welcome to Reference Max, where we have a lot to say on new releases so fitting it all into a multi-splooshy, spoiler-free review episode!
Dig through the archives of growing pains, investigative journalism and historical fanfare with Armageddon Time, She Said & The Lost King this week.
Episode Details
- Duration
- 0:00
- Released
- November 22, 2022
- Category
- Episode
- Hosts
Transcript
Transcript (6,125 words)
Full transcript of Armageddon Time, She Said & The Lost King.
KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household. But guess what, Oti? We have a new format to the For Your Reference Podcast. Oh yeah. It's called Reference Max
Oti: I wonder how you got that one
KT: Um, we have a lot to say on new releases, so we're fitting it all into a multi-splooshy review episode.
Oti: A noise.
KT: Thank you so much to Universal, as well as Tracey Mair Publicity. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and lovers. Welcome back to Reference Max at the For Your Reference podcast. You got your hosts, KT
Oti: and Oti,
KT: The multi-splooshy review episode for you, not just you, but you dig through the archives of growing pains, investigative journalism, and historical fanfare with Armageddon Time, She Said, and The Lost King this week. Ooh, who? Ooh, we're shaking things up. Bootie. uh, this is going to be very interesting.
KT: Welcome, welcome, friends and lovers. There is no time to say spoiler because we have been given the opportunity to go to many screenings recently. Um, for the most part, we can catch up to it. In our weekly sort of format. However, there have been some screenings that we've had and we are getting into some splooshy festive fanfare.
KT: Um, so there's a lot of Christmas stuff that we have going on and that we're very excited if you've been in the For Your Reference household for a while, you know how it goes down on a Christmas sort of affair. Um, but there's definitely some films that we wanna cover that have been released or about to be released that we wanna talk about.
KT: Today we're not necessarily going to get into spoilers, so strap on in Friends and lovers, we are starting off with, um, Armageddon Time again, thank you to Universal. I had the opportunity to watch it before it came out, uh, for general release in Australia theaters. Um, Oti hasn't had a chance to watch it yet, and I do declare that we will make it a full review episode.
Oti: Wow.
KT: But I do wanna capture it on the podcast, perhaps a teaser trailer if you're nasty. So let's get into general stats information. This film, this l to the OT um, level of a film written and directed by James Gray, released in the Cannes Film Festival in May of 2022 for general release in. Specifically in Australia also, uh, October in the US and then general release in November as well. A budget of 15 million and a worldwide gross so far of 3.8 million.
Oti: Nice.
KT: That's why it's important to talk about it. So more people go and check out the film. In way of cut of cast. Ooh, I have a lot to say, but in way of cast, Anne Hathaway, Jeremy Strong. Check out our Succession episode. Friends and lovers, Banks Repeta, Jaylin Webb, as well as Anthony Hopkins.
Oti: Yeah, I know you had thoughts,
KT: I had thoughts. Yeah.
Oti: Uh, from the minute you got outta the cinema, you are like, bro, and Harto is the best.
KT: I did not I did not say that,
Oti: but you are very impressed. And for you to be that impressed by how, uh, takes, takes a lot.
KT: does.
Oti: But I
KT: for women,
Oti: clearly
KT: but you're right, I, I would say that this is in, i, I, I don't, I don't necessarily like to make lists, but I would say that this is in my top, top, top of 2022 films.
Oti: Wow. Top, top, top,
KT: top, top, top. Um, I have written down some themes. Obviously we're not gonna actually discuss them in detail and we'll wait for an actual episode of that.
KT: If I can. Toxic masculinity, veto, Oti. If he doesn't even like this film, we're still gonna cover it. . Um, but just generally, I really. This film, there's something to be said about films that are based on personal experiences, um, that I'll come to in a second. But it was very effective. I really enjoyed it. You know, the, in the, in the name, it, it talks of a different time from many decades ago, right? Um, perhaps nostalgic for some in America.
KT: But I really enjoyed it because we were really laser focused into the world that James Gray has created. And so masterfully was able to craft in Armageddon Time, um, just generally talking about the cast. Anne Hathaway did very well in this role. It's interesting at the Star Power that this film had, but it was able to. Serve the story. You know, all of the performances were centering what the story was, and it wasn't necessarily about beating their superstar chests.
Oti: That's good. So we are not going to get a Movie 43 sort of experience from
KT: experience like a New Year's Eve or even, uh, Love Actually, or the Poor Man's The Holiday. Um, but yeah, Anne Hathaway, she didn't blow me away, but I was very impressed with her performance, especially, you know, the, the temperature of her character. Um, she hit all the notes that she needed to, um, you know, Fergie or otherwise with the national anthem.
Oti: What do you think of Jeremy Strong's character in this? Because I'm interested because I, I stan a good, Jeremy Strong, um, uh, performance. Yeah. So, um, tell me more about it.
KT: performance is the key word. Um, Jeremy Strong is becoming one of my favorite character actors. Nice. Yeah.
Oti: I will put that on loop.
KT: Well, you know, the, the arc of a character can get very frustrating and, you know, we talked about it in our most recent Succession episode. Um, but Jeremy Strong, he really. You know, there's, there's method acting. There's Daniel Day-Lewis, there's Jeremy Strong. Right.
Oti: His own category. Nice.
KT: Yes. But I also hope that he's well and he is taking care of himself. You won't even believe his character in this film.
Oti: Really?
KT: Really? Yeah.
Oti: Okay.
KT: I like, I wasn't necessarily sitting there waiting for Kendall to come along, but the like, immediate. Like immediately. And this isn't a spoiler, especially if you've watched the trailer, he's doing his best Ray Romano sort of voice So even that, like even just thinking of Jeremy Strong with a Ray Romano voice, um, yeah, the minded boggles, but it works.
Oti: You had to be a Jeremy bro.
KT: Yeah, He, yeah, his beautiful, beautiful exemplary. Love it. Absolutely. Going down the list of the cast and really the center of the film, you know. Banks Repeta is definitely one to watch. You know, when we talked about The Black Phone and the young actress in there, Madeleine, I believe. Um, like he, I just, I loved it and, and obviously there are themes. I, I'm not gonna talk in detail, but there are themes in this film.
KT: If you imagine the setting, you know, we're transported to the 1980s. Right. And this is centering a Jewish American family. Um, there's also a, like in a core like black character, but there are black characters in this film. Um, and obviously again, we're talking about the 1980s, so there's gonna be less than savory language and even racism towards Jewish people as well as black people. Right.
Oti: Oh, is, is it The Departed level of, of racism? Just
KT: Just for fun. No. Um, I would say it. It's, it's more in the vein of what you would expect, right?
Oti: At the time
KT: of the time, right. Yeah. Um, it wasn't nipple sniffing 1930s King Kong level. But there was a little bit of progress to get into the 1980s. But what was interesting to me in the small theater at where I was watching Armageddon Time, people kept getting, Like people kept getting shocked, um, at, you know, certain bits of dialogue, especially in regards to the young black character.
Oti: Oh,
KT: You know what I mean? And it's like, yeah, it's not right, but it, like, it makes sense for the film and it's also erasure if you don't have that in the film either.
Oti: All right. Okay, so I'm, I'm very interested in this. You know, you, you've mentioned some very good highlights on this, you know, from Jeremy's strong, strong performance.
KT: Oh, look at you. And
Oti: Hathaway's. And you, you've mentioned Jaylin,
KT: well, you've mentioned Jaylin as you tend to do,
Oti: I will top my chest here and say
KT: He was, he was also very brilliant in the film.
Oti: I'm interested to see what this will be like. And um, could you tell me, could you tell me more about Anthony Hopkins' character in this.
KT: Oh, we're just gonna skittle past Jaylin Webb's character. Hey.
Oti: No, no. Like I don't want you, I don't want
KT: you to. Okay. You wanna
Oti: too much. I feel like the more you tell me about Jaylin's character, the more it'll probably sway me into whether or not I want to watch it. So let, let's just live it there. With
KT: Bra, you spent more time talking about the Black lady in Air Force one than she was actually on screen.
Oti: She was what made the movie possible. You know, at the end of it, if you're writing, if you're getting giving up medals, she's the first one.
KT: Okay. But my point is you've got a lot of black tags, so it doesn't really matter. You're going to watch it anyway. Um, in regards to Anthony Hopkins character, beautiful, lovely, amazing, great
Oti: Wow. So everyone will had just a stellar
KT: Yes. Super solid. Super, super, super solid. And I, I, I guess we'll just like close off in the themes, I just wanna talk a little bit about it. Obviously this film is about a coming of age film. Mm.
Oti: Mm.
KT: I think it does it very well.
Oti: Mm-hmm. ,
KT: um, in regards to growing pains and that sort of thing. You know, I can't speak to whether the, the portrayals were antisemitism, but there was definitely some anti-Jewish sort of stuff happening in the film. Um, but even just general stupid teenage. Or pre pubescent shit, um, was covered very well in this film.
KT: And it goes very nicely into the next theme that I have here is it's from experience. Okay? And the reason why it's important is because if you had someone else writing a film, the way that they, the way that people would choose to portray a black character, being a non-black person, can really make or break it.
Oti: Mm.
KT: It can, it can coddle or it can super brutalize, right? Yeah. But it was done in a way that felt real from experience. Right. The film wasn't the film, aside from the like, sort of political sort of bits that you would have, um, within the film, it wasn't trying to contribute to the broader dialogue of social commentary.
KT: It wasn't trying to, you know, cast a light on, on systemic issues in New York, you know what I mean? It was living inside of the moment and inside of James Gray experience. But you see what I'm saying? Like there, there are ways, there are ways that characters can be portrayed that feel very caricature or can feel very unrealistic just to serve a particular plot point, but because it was being told from his experience, there's technically no wrong answer. Right?
KT: you. He's not throwing cream at the Mona Lisa That's the wrong sort of performative, right. But that's, I just like love, splooshies and accolades. To James Gray and the crew, um, as well as the cast of Armageddon Time because I really felt that reckoning. Like I really, really enjoyed it. And you know, like lastly, just talking about family, um, you know, aside, unless you're living in like a WandaVision sitcom or even like a Kevin Can F**k Himself sort of, um, fantasy, you know, not all families have perfect dynamics, right.
KT: And this film tackled family dynamics in a very interesting way. So I'm very, how are you feeling? Are you satiated my love?
Oti: I am, man. Like I feel, I feel very intrigued into watching this. I'm excited about it. I think soon I'll go to the cinemas. Watch this. Um, what makes it more interesting for me is your general sort of love for this. I know how hard it is for you to usually give such plaudits to a movie.
KT: Okay?
Oti: So the fact. Say such good things about it, even in bits where those probably difficult to watch, uh, based even from the audience reaction. I'm like, okay, okay, call. I be fucking impressed. I'm, I really do wanna watch Uh, do you think it's a shot for the Oscars?
KT: Ooh, hashtag Oscars so strong. Am I right?
Oti: Is Jeremy Strong gonna bring one home.
KT: Oh, he was so, he was so delightful. Oti. He was so delightful. You know, obviously characters have full dimension, but like his performance Absolutely, absolutely. Knock it out of the.
Oti: Nice. I I'll update, I'll update the Jeremy Strong, um, stan website for that, then
KT: Um, well it looks like I've sold you on Armageddon Time, um, and you've sold the segment or the new format, hopefully, to our friends and lovers. are you ready to move on?
Oti: Let's move
KT: Thanks again to Universal. Uh, this is She Said,
Oti: yeah.
KT: Ooh. Uh, this is a social commentary. This is, this is the big band, Uh, let's get into generals. Stats and information. Friends and lovers, director Maria Schrader in way of screenplay, Rebecca Lenkiewicz. It's based on the book She Said by Megan Twohey, as well as Jodi Kantor. It was released in the New York Film Festival, premierer in October of 2022, and was released in November of 2022. Worldwide. We had the opportunity to see a preview screening in.
Oti: Mm-hmm.
KT: uh, the budget, 32 million and a worldwide gross so far of 2.8 million
Oti: All right.
KT: in way of cast. And we'll talk about the cast. But in way of cast, Carey Mulligan. Zoe Kazan, Patricia Clarkson, Jennifer Ehle. Go and check out our Pride and Prejudice, the only recognized BBC mini-series, Pride and Prejudice, friends and lovers, uh, as well as Oti, Oti, Oti. My MVP for this film, Samantha Morton. if we're talking about. Solid. Solid. Cuz she's not that main of a character. Right. So I just wanna lay some love and splooshies for Samantha Morton right now. She brings her whole ass and her whole pussy to every role she does.
Oti: She does. Wow. Yeah. You can tell like she just steals the scene. Yeah, like it's hers bro. What are you trying to do? Being in the same, sharing the same space there.
KT: Get out You don't deserve to gaze upon Samantha Morton's counts like I was so, wow. Cause friends and lovers, we've talked about The Serpent Queen and we will cover it eventually. Um, but she is the titular character in that show, and I'm not necessarily familiar with her beyond that show, but she really reeled. Like, she's so captivating in a very chill sort of way.
KT: Kind of like Emma D'Arcy, um, Rhaenyra from House of the Dragon. Yeah. Right. Um, she just drew me in. And even the moments that she had in this film, she just abso I was all the way in I'm like, Samantha, Jesus, take the wheel.
Oti: Oh wow.
KT: But she's about it. Like people can be acting, but this is a full blown thespian right here.
Oti: Fact.
KT: I don't have anymore. Lady love splooshies. She took them all so no spoilers. But how did you feel about She Said
Oti: it was very revealing of what Hollywood is, you know, and the industry and what people let go. Yeah. You know, people knew shit was happening and no one really said anything. Um, and the fact that people just tiptoed around it. Yeah. Uh, savingly just casting a fucking blind eye to everything.
Oti: And the women that had to suffer through that, people had their passions, you know, on what they wanted to do with their careers. And then you made a dick like that. Yeah. And what transpires with everything that goes on and it's shown in the movie was just fucking heartbreaking. It being shown hopefully just breaks up, down all the fucking barriers that.
Oti: People can speak up and feel comfortable in where they work without having to worry about shit nonsense that went through, you know? Mm-hmm. , um, I think it was, it's a necessary watch just to see how everything unfolded. Um, what about you?
KT: Um, oh, well, I guess this is interesting and, you know, like my Patrice would buy in with my full chest, where the nuances at, where the nuances at. Um, fucking unfortunately, even without trying, we were updated on Harvey Weinstein's trial.
KT: You know, even again, even without trying, you'd see a lot of the detail. There were a lot of documentaries that came out. There were a lot of think pieces that came out. And if I were to use one word, I would say numb. And I would say it has nothing to do with the film. But I also said to you, at least it's not a film about Cosby, because that would be very fucking frustrating, you know?
KT: Um, but I think. It's still like the ink is still wet and there's been so much coverage about it. I'm just sad. what I mean?
Oti: Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. Like those, those moments in the movie where they were either just, you know, play out, playing it out, what the conversations or whatever that went through, I was very, very uncomfortable and chilling. Yeah. You know, and. Just to reenact some things. It, it, it was like, bro, and there, people who knew that is what just boggles me that they allowed shit to happen so much up until they felt that it was coming old. The house of cards was all fucking crumbling down
KT: House of Cards. That's a very pointed reference.
Oti: And that's when people started jumping ship and I'm like, it didn't need to get to that. Yeah. and I dunno, like I understand the numbness and I get it. It's very bloody unfortunate and I just hope that more people watch this because I really do think it's essential. Um, despite the fact of us knowing what's happened to Harvey Weinstein right now, his sentencing and all that,
KT: What I really, really enjoyed about this film was, you know, I talk a lot about how it's important for people to write from their own experiences and, you know, even in the, our Pussy Valley episode I talked about, you know, the importance of the pen, um, and to make sure those pen have that experience, right?
KT: Because then you can, you can cover topics that are hard to talk about. You can cover topics that you know need to be talked. Right, right. But it's handled with a care that, for example, we don't see in a Tarantino film, especially in Django. Right. Our Django, our classic Django, um, sort of reference, right? What I loved about this film and, you know, obviously we're watching in the cinema, um, but I was like, this is absolutely made by women and this is nurtured by women because even though they were hard to sit through moments in this film, It was never used to a salacious impact.
KT: They were able to demonstrate the the gross brutality and misuse of power without actually having to brutalize the performances.
Oti: Mm.
KT: to me that meant a lot. It might not mean a lot if you are not a woman, for example. Um, but you know, even, even recently we've been watching a lot of horror films that just very casually the central theme is about a woman fearing a man. Right.
Oti: Mm.
KT: Run Sweetheart Run
Oti: Sorry,
KT: Terrified. Right. This is literally just our recent. Right. And there's nothing wrong with, you know, the horror genre. There's nothing wrong with using this concept. However, it does feel at some point that women are disposable, right? Mm-hmm. , and you know that, that's why it's great and it's, it's great to applaud films like Promising Young Woman.
KT: Right because of that turning of power, because of that wielding of the pen, because of shifting that focus. Right. And you know, this was, this definitely wasn't an easy watch, but what I love, love, love, love, love so much were the caring and warm embrace that the crew and the cast had behind this
Oti: Yeah, I really like that. I think I can't really add anything to that.
KT: In way of cast, you know, I just mentioned Promising Young Woman. We have Carey Mulligan
Oti: whoop,
KT: first for the podcast, I believe.
Oti: Yeah.
KT: You know, when I was looking, when I was doing my, uh, Don Che's algorithm IMDb research, she was the sister in Shame.
Oti: Yeah. Oh, we just missed it by a bit. We went to cover Shame, eh,
KT: Yeah. . We felt too much shame. or not enough If you're nesty. Um, what do you think about Carey Mulligan's performance?
Oti: Oh, man. She's great in everything she does. Oh, absolutely. She was great in this, um, I think she conveyed a lot of the emotions properly, like it felt, nothing felt for all the characters. Nothing felt overact. Everything was just, they conveyed the mood and the tone of the movie quite well.
KT: It wasn't like Jennifer Lawrence's character in Don't Look Up. Why aren't you listening to me?
Oti: Yeah.
KT: Yeah. But you're right. It it, and in some cases it felt understated and I think that there were moments where that was needed as well.
Oti: Yeah. It it had to be. It had to be.
KT: Yeah. Cause I, I spent a lot of time spreading love to Samantha Morton, but Carey Mulligan was very, very strong. As well as Zoe Kazan, who was in The Big Sick with Kumail Nanjiani, a film that I really, really love. But it came out before this podcast, so we'll definitely need to rewatch that film. Yeah. Oh. But yeah, def definitely, um, an experience. And again, I, I, I can't give any more love and accolades to the way this film was crafted and delivered to the Are you ready to go dig in, Oti?
Oti: Woo. Consider me dug
KT: Well, some might call you the found king, but we're covering the Lost King General stats Information Director Stephen Frears, writers Steve Coogan, who also stars in the film, as well as Jeff Pope. Credits include screenplay for Philomena and Stan & Ollie.
Oti: Nice, who love Stan & Ollie
KT: deep cut friends and lovers. But, um, we were supposed to cover Stan & Ollie many, many years ago, but maybe with my immature film criticism Eyes, I didn't get it.
Oti: I really enjoyed it and I, I don't really wanted to cover it, but KT just like, nah, veto didn't enjoy it, didn't get it. get in the bin.
KT: Oh yeah.
Oti: Wow. . Well,
KT: I, I would challenge myself to watch it again. So perhaps friends and lovers, we might see Kelly from Insecure growth.
Oti: Wow. Yeah. Not Issa Growth.
KT: No, because I know my references Uh, this is based on The King's Grave: The Search for Richard III by Philippa Langley and Michael Jones. Thank you so much to Sue and the team at Tracey Mair Publicity, uh, for inviting us to a preview screening. This film will be available, uh, December 26th in Australia. It was released in September, 2022 at TIFF. Um, and a. Worldwide gross of 1.7 million so far. Sally Hawkins, Steve Coogan, as well as Harry Lloyd. Ooh. What are your first impressions? Oti?
Oti: I really didn't know anything going in. Okay. You know? And up until the end when I realized that it's actually based on a true story, that's what everything just clicked for me with it. Okay. And I was like, oh, okay. This makes way more.
KT: Uhhuh,
Oti: Um, I think I was struggling throughout. I was struggling throughout to understand why. Okay. And when I realized that it was, oh, based on a true story, I was like, okay, cool. This now makes sense to me on how everything was, uh, was done, delivered, and executed.
KT: Nice. Um, you know who else is nice? Tim, Tim and Lee from the Popcorn podcast. Uh, I don't know what Oti wants to blame it on, but we were 10 minutes late to the screening
KT: So, um, but I thought that was interesting because at the end, um, of the screening, Tim filled us in on what we missed, but because we had missed that, it added extra mystery to the film.
Oti: Oh, did it? Because I remember, cause when we got in and sat down and people started crackling the me side of Philippa, just staring outside the windows like, wait, what am I missing here? All those sort of
KT: no, I think that was just context. If you didn't find that funny, then you just didn't find that funny.
Oti: No, because I didn't know what was going on. I was like, wait, what? What is it? She's just staring outside the window. But it made sense even up until the end. I'm
KT: it's who she was staring at that they were
Oti: Yeah, of course there was laughing at the guy outside, but I didn't know that. I was like, wait, someone sitting on the bench? What the fuck?
KT: Um, I think the release for this film is absolutely perfect. It's very much during Christmas time. It's coming out in Boxing Day in Australia. Like after you've had a whole day. St You just lay in the cinema, maybe not lay there, you'll, you'll probably get kicked out or you lay on the couch, um, and you would watch a film like this. Cause it's, it's, you follow it along. It felt very, um, reminiscent of like a Nancy Drew or maybe even like a Hardy Boys.
KT: It, it had a nostalgia sort of tip to. Um, as well, um, you know, obviously the film is followed being, uh, following Philippa's character. Um, and she's so interested, she's so engrossed. Um, we're finding Richard III right, his remains, and that's on a spoiler. It's also in the description as well. Um, but you can imagine, you know, she.
KT: She's, uh, not necessarily stay at home mom, but a lot of her life orbits around the care of others, right? So she finally has something for herself. And, you know, , there was a moment during the film that I leaned over to Oti and I'm like, this is me with Twilight Like, I think it's cool. Like, I think it's cool to have your own interests and to have your own hobbies and, you know, depending on how far down the Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole you wanna go, um, there's definitely some depths to be had. Um, it was interesting because I, I guess in regards to history, I'm not necessarily, um, a European.
KT: On knowing what happens, like or where the remains are. Um, but it was, it was interesting to, you know, even through the film, understand a little bit of the history, the perception of Richard III, you know, at the time, and how that has become common knowledge or, you know, folklore at this point. Um, it was interesting.
KT: I, I, I thought it was interesting. The cast, um, was very interesting. But what I really enjoyed about this film, we haven. We haven't watched The Shape of Water yet. Um, but what I really loved about Philippa's character is how relatable she was. Like our life experiences couldn't be any more different, but I understood the need to shake up the monotony.
Oti: Yeah. I caught that, you know, um, in a pursuit to find her own thing, you know, um, was, was quite, uh, relatable. You know, we see her juggling family life and all that, and it's weird, you know, because she also got support from her family, which is usually not the case when we see movies like
KT: Yeah. Oh, I'm thinking about the mom in Muriel's Wedding.
Oti: Mm. Yeah,
KT: And checked out. We watched the thing. Um, I did a collaboration about Muriel's Wedding on there. Um, but this film, this film's nice. Like it's a, it's a little capsule of time.
Oti: It was very hard for me to, to sort of pull my thoughts together, the end of it. And I just had to sit down for a bit to really think through everything that I'd watched, because at the moment, because throughout watching it, I'd see all this, you know, Philippa was quite relatable as a character and even up until the end I was like, I understand all this, but you know, it all, I always had this underbelly of a feeling of understanding the reasons, you know, it could be just a hobby, it could be something else.
Oti: People are driven by different things and whatnot. Mm-hmm. . But yeah, like I just had to sort of amalgamate all that within my brain at the end of
KT: Okay, I see that. Um, I wanna talk about some controversy, uh, surrounding this film and you also see it portrayed in the film as well. But I would love to hear your thoughts on, you know, I think it was when the first trailer was released. There were some archeologists that were none too pleased with the portrayal of, I guess, the contribution or the, the, the, the, the big proportion of contribution that Philippa played to the discovery, which kind of fits the narrative of the film, in
KT: real life, breaking the matrix, there was some poo-pooing of the contribution that Philippa made thoughts feeling.
Oti: It doesn't matter. At the end of the day, she had an inkling. She was like, let's raise money to do something. Whether or not she didn't hold a bloody shovel to dig it out, doesn't matter. It was all her, all her research, all her motivation and try to find the body. And people had, people weren't really doing that. So I don't know what the qualms are coming from,
KT: But I think she was led by passion. Like there were moments in the film where she just let herself run free and it's like, no, there needs to be a methodology
Oti: There needs to be a methodology. And
KT: you can't just ride by on rainbows and feelings.
Oti: But her rainbows and feelings got them the end, you know, got them to the end.
KT: But her research was also based on research as well.
Oti: Yeah. It wasn't just all rainbows, even though when she spoke, it felt like, oh, this is just a feeling that I had, rather than her actually portraying or her laying out everything that she'd done. Research was, yeah, she more spoke of, Ooh, this is how I feel. It came out more emotional than factual. Even when she did have the facts,
KT: but she might have also contributed greatly, which maybe the academics didn't like because she was driven by so much.
Oti: Yeah. And academics can get in the bin.
KT: Wow. Hey. Okay. Okay. Alternative facts.
Oti: what? Even what even academics now brought.
KT: Wow,
Oti: I can stand up my facts right here, and that's the truth.
KT: yeah, there's some damaging rhetoric that's going on.
KT: Maybe. Maybe this film isn't great for the masses.
Oti: Then , I'll follow my feelings and I'll cover everything.
KT: It was, obviously, it was with the, the power of, um, cinema, but it wasn't really that easy to fundraise overnight.
Oti: man. She raked it in quite easily. And you know the people out there ready to put their money out for the cause, eh,
KT: friends and lovers. I'm going to start a GoFundMe for us to find Corlys's body Um, um, that's a House of Dragon slash Game of Thrones reference. Um, friends and lovers. Maybe I can find my mythical king.
Oti: Mm.
KT: I'll be driven by, again, being driven by passion. Cause there are moments where like, yes, I can relate to it. I like, I, you know, I understand the need to have a project or something to work towards, you know, i e this podcast. But then there were moments where she would talk very romantically about King Richard. And I'm like, I can't, I think this is where I, I leave you off this train.
Oti: This is after, after dark version. Well,
KT: was like, wow, lady, like, I guess we're on two different
Oti: Yeah. She, she was definitely passionate about it. Um, passionate in. Ways and meanings because wow, it took a lot, man.
KT: Like tell us you have King Richard the Third fan fiction without telling us you have King Richard the Third fan fiction. What did you think about the collective? Like the group
Oti: Again, as long as you find a hobby there, you know, you can all. Enjoy. I don't see anything wrong with it.
KT: No one said there was something wrong with it.
Oti: No. It felt as if you're trying a 60 minute me to into an aisle.
KT: Yeah, I think, I think I read that 60 minute in King Richard III. No, I'm just asking because you know, there's, there's some colorful characters in this film, so I just wanted to
Oti: well, it's a collective about King Richard. And the meat took weekly or what? What ex what else do you expect other than colorful characters?
KT: What kinda a pub is it that them talking normally was like too loud Or was the pub owner just the King Richard Hater?
Oti: Yeah,
KT: man. What do you think about the kids? There were some comments being made about their mother not ascribing to gender roles.
Oti: I'm not pulled up for it quite quickly by the husband, which is good to see. Yeah, like I, I appreciated openness and how they were able to sort of convey their feelings and emotions. Something that I would never be able to say anything like, you know, I think that applies to a lot of our listeners as well.
KT: Yeah. I'm like, these kids are doing some job talking
Oti: yeah, but they were, but they, but they were all quite supportive at the end of it, which was good to see.
KT: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, you know, just for fun, if you were to dig up a historical figure, who would it be?
Oti: Oh, so by digging up, you mean we bring them back to life or just digging up and looking at their remains?
KT: Whatever. Float you boat. I just meant
Oti: Like,
KT: you know, because there, there are scenes, you know, with Philippa and King Richard. I was just wondering if there are any historical figures that you would be interested in having a chat to?
Oti: Oh wow. It would have to be he Lai, bro, just to have bloody brilliant conversations. You,
KT: wow. I'm also going to ity.
Oti: Oh,
KT: if it's not sacrilegious. Many years ago, Oti and I went to an Ethiopian Orthodox monastery and we learned about a prophet that prayed so diligently. One of his legs fell off
Oti: that . And,
KT: and I would like to have many conversations about perseverance with this prophet. Yeah. No, take backsies. That's mine.
Oti: Okay. Okay. Maybe do you want any of your limbs to fall off
KT: Well, if they're not falling off, then you're not doing it right, are
Oti: Oh wow. Okay.
KT: Stay tuned. Friends and lovers for the spinoff. No one will fund Thank you so much, friends and lovers for joining us on our first episode of Reference Max.
Oti: Woo. Good. It's wild because I was really struggling not to mention
KT: the spoilers Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think this is cool. You know, if we happen to have another scenario where we get to go to multiple screenings, um, we can cover them still at the same time. Mm.
Oti: Mm-hmm.
KT: Check out for Christmas when we write these films, friends and lovers. If you'd like to rate us on Twitter and Instagram, we're out for your F pod,
Oti: Write us an email or hello podcast.com.
KT: We're also on hashtag Oscars So Strong podcast if you like to leave a rating and review and we'll see you guys next week.
Oti: See ya.
KT: Bye.
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