Angle, Bad Behaviour, The Promise, Bookie, Uproar, The prince of Egypt: The musical

Full transcript of Angle, Bad Behaviour, The Promise, Bookie, Uproar, The prince of Egypt: The musical.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household and call us the Pope's Exorcist friends and lovers. We're feeling like old mate Rusty in a Vespa around Europe. You watched it after, um, I gave my independent review. Do you want to rate Pope's Exorcist?

0:16Oti: I will. It'll be in our Christmas episode. And I'm sure I'll give it high marks.

0:21KT: Merry Yuletide to us all and pray to give us the energy to get through this episode. We've missed y'all. We loved y'all. Let's get on with the show. Howdy ho friends and lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. We know you missed us. You know, you want us to take that rewinder back. You know, you want us to flip it and reverse it.

0:47Oti: Oh, wow. Sounded like you added an extra verse to that.

0:51KT: I'm just trying to bring the urban audiences back, you know,

0:54Oti: You have

0:55KT: do you have an urban reference for us all?

0:57Oti: If in doubt, always go with Juvenile, 'Back That Azz Up'.

1:02KT: Tell us your Spotify Wrapped without telling us your Spotify Wrapped. Am I right? Also Oti's favorite Tiny Desk. Let's get on with the show. Friends and lovers. Yes. Yes. We are back like a delicious thief in the night. Um, and we've got a lot to cover. Thank you for, um, all of the screeners and the screenings for the PR friends and lovers, independent filmmakers, um, that have reached out to us. And we will cover as much as we can, but we do have a running list of screeners. Yes. Friends and lovers. That means run to our contact form on our website. It's not just for boomers. People use it.

1:38Oti: They do.

1:40KT: Speaking of love splooshes to Alex Perry, Kurt Angle, and the team. Um, we are starting off with the available on Peacock as well as Australian streamers as well. The documentary Angle. Oti, take us away.

1:56Oti: Angle brilliantly peels back the curtain on Kurt Angle's journey. Candid and raw, it's a gripping tale of triumph and turbulence.

2:06KT: Oh, what a journey. Just like the documentary. I love your first thought, Oti. Um, let me read mine so we can get into the review of the documentary. Angle was released at a perfect time for audiences and also for Kurt Angle as he's ready to walk through the highs and lows of his career, family, and legacy, the tender core to the masculine world of wrestling.

2:27Oti: A tender core indeed.

2:29KT: Right?

2:29Oti: Yeah.

2:30KT: Well, I guess let's give a little bit of context. Friends and lovers, you know, whether you are decorating, whether you are loving, or whether, you know, you're trying to find some silent, joyful moments in this fucked up, crazy world. Grab a, grab a snack, grab a beverage. We're not going to go into any spoilers today. Um, but you know, we've talked a little bit of wrestling in the podcast. I don't know if it was ever related, but, um, let's talk a little bit about wrestling, I guess, what it means to you if it means anything, and then we can roll into the documentary.

3:04Oti: Oh, I grew up on that. I was sipping WWF

3:08KT: The tea of the McMahons, the double McMahons.

3:12Oti: I, I really was from WW it was WWF before the whole, the whole

3:17KT: came along

3:18Oti: the panda came along. And then it was WWE. I loved it. I think once I stopped, I dropped off watching wrestling.

3:25KT: Are you a Raw boy or are you a Smackdown boy?

3:28Oti: I feel like even after they started distinguishing that I had already started falling off, but I was more Smackdown because all my favorite people are still in Smackdown. Uh, never really got into Raw, but then again, it just all tapered off. But I still remember, peak Kurt Angle, he was the biggest heel I could ever think of. Like, if you tell me the one person I hated the most, outside of Booker T, it was Kurt Angle.

3:57KT: And this is, this is full on American flag, Kurt Angle, because there were many different eras that he would go through, right?

4:05Oti: Yeah, full American flag Kurt Angle. I do not know why he just rubbed me the wrong way. I do not like his pompous ass. So when, when I, yeah, you can say that he was, he had a big neck. Um,

4:20KT: He had that thick neck, was a neck daddy.

4:23Oti: Yeah. Uh, so, and that's the funny thing, right? Like I never thought I'd sit down and watch a documentary on Kurt Angle just based off my, you know,

4:34KT: Yeah, it does a really good job in painting the picture of how it

4:44Oti: an understanding of like the behind the scenes, if you will.

4:57KT: Because you were still trying to understand that it's not real, is that why?

5:05Oti: But it's still, you know, when it, someone plays the part so well, you feel like it's intrinsic to who they are as a person. They leave the ring and they're that. There's no method doing, um, Daniel Day-Lewis type stuff there.

5:22KT: Well, I think Kurt Angle and other wrestlers will do well on Bradley Cooper's set apparently because he doesn't like chairs.

5:29Oti: Yeah,

5:31KT: Um, wrestling, I guess you could always, like, I guess you could say that it was more my brother's team and I was kind of just there sitting around watching it. Obviously I need to like call out the significance of Pacific Islanders in wrestling, which obviously helped to gravitate, you know, little brown kids in Australia. Um, and I'm not even talking about The Rock either. I'm talking about Haku. I'm talking about Rikishi. Um, you know, and you know, there's a whole, there's a whole like royal family of Islanders that are in wrestling as well, but you're absolutely right about Kurt Angle. Like I, I didn't see him as someone that was very likable.

6:12KT: I think even when he was introduced very, like in a neutral sort of way. And I think that's one of the interesting sort of things that we kind of explore in Angle as well of, um, you know, the, the building of a character and I guess how it takes its own form and it becomes a whole different conversation of perhaps the fandom and the audience shaping what that sort of persona can be.

6:35Oti: Oh, a hundred percent. I think that set the scene of what this documentary was because early on, we get to understand Kurt the man and everything that drove him, how he became to be, you know, the Olympic champion. And while we're watching this, and I know you had qualms a bit here and there, but I think it painted a full picture for me because I already knew Kurt the wrestler, and I wasn't really intrigued in peering that back a bit more. I was interested in Kurt the man before he became, you know, our Kurt Angle, you suck wrestler, man.

7:11KT: Uh huh.

7:11Oti: So this really got me. And in as much as everything has gone through those stories that you had, um, you could, you could tell there's a lot of trauma, tragedy that they're still dealing with

7:25KT: grief, mourning, loss,

7:27Oti: Yeah, it's all there,

7:29KT: Yeah, yeah,

7:29Oti: and life is tough,

7:30KT: So you called me up on it, so at least let me defend myself. Um, it's not necessarily that I had qualms with the documentary. I think, you know, I was, like, fairly young with wrestling. I was like, is he really an Olympian? Why is he in this fake wrestling world? But, you know, that's just me being a little kid. Um, a little dick of a kid, but anyway. Um. I think for me, when it comes to documentaries, the best sort of documentaries, documentaries that center a specific, like an actual person and their life and their experiences, it really needs to be ready to go there.

8:08KT: Um, there was a lot of tempering that, that happened throughout the documentary and overall, I, I really came to love the documentary film, but I would say maybe in like the first third of the documentary, it did feel like there was a little bit of a reluctance and maybe that might just be the storytelling style of a documentary, but, you know, without doing any, like a lot of spoilers, Kurt Angle talks about the fact how he lost a parent,

8:36KT: And without even saying it, saying it, well, the brothers were kind of saying it, even the mom, but, you know, it was made very clear that that affected him, right? It's one thing to be athletically talented. It's one thing to have the drive, the skill, um, and the willpower to be at your, at your peak form. Um, but there's also a lot of channeling that grief. And there was that ooey gooey, you know, my soft center, Oti, that wanted to dive into that a little bit more. There was so much focus on his training, which I understand. I don't know if it was more about like the demographic or the target audiences or, you know, people that come to know him as a wrestler, but I'm very much let's put on cozy sweaters, sit down and, you know, wrap two hands around a mug of tea and let's have a great talk, you know.

9:26KT: So I, uh, that's more what, what I was saying in regards to my qualms, but absolutely by the time we got to the end of the documentary, we really went all the way

9:35Oti: Now that you say that, I

9:49KT: front of the family. Yeah, definitely something

9:54Oti: that, um, I'm not privy, you know, to the decisions being made here and there's definitely something there, but at least we still got to see his support system to a point and everything around that,

10:09KT: Yeah, and you know, it's not easy. It's not easy to support ones you love, especially when, when, when there's a lot of love and patience and, you know, so much consideration and so much sacrifice, I think is the key word, um, as well, but it was so nice to learn a lot about him. I, something that was really telling to me was, you know, the way that he was phased out of wrestling, for example, um, again, go and watch the documentary friends and lovers, but even the way that like, even J.R., it was nice to see J.R. after all these years. He looks and sounds exactly the way he did when we left him.

10:49KT: Um, and how tenderly he spoke about not just Kurt Angle, but a lot of the wrestlers in general and what they potentially might grapple with mentally or physically.

10:59Oti: Yeah, there's the familiar aspect of it, Dom would be very proud of this, um.

11:05KT: Sentimentally referenced Dom Toretto from the Fast and Furious franchise.

11:13Oti: If the glove fits, bruv.

11:16KT: The race wars heal, friends and lovers. Um, but also something that I was really telling was Vince McMahon, because, you know, again, the, the persona is the life as far as audiences are concerned. So, you know, for even for Vince to be interviewed and, you know, to have the tact and the respect to just say, you know, this is, this is his time, leave him alone. I was like, okay, like there's some respect there and that's nice to see.

11:42Oti: Yeah, very nice to see. I think it's overall a really good documentary that transcends just sport. You know, it covers a whole array of, of, of things there. We as human beings go through and it's done very tastefully and something that you can relate to with, even though you're not a fan of wrestling, because it's not about that. Um, yeah, it's just

12:03KT: The best documentaries about humans is really at the core

12:06Oti: Exactly. And you

12:07KT: And, you know, even for, like, like we said, it took us on a whole journey. We had an assumption of, of who Kurt Angle was, being a 24/7 sort of heel. And this documentary did the best way to challenge that.

12:21Oti: You said that, and Swagger just came to mind, being a 24/7 person.

12:26KT: Well, look at that.

12:28KT: Kurt Angle got some swagger as well.

12:30Oti: Mm hmm.

12:31KT: Um, do, while we're here, do you want to say who your favorite wrestler is? It doesn't matter.

12:37Oti: I knew. That's why I didn't even attempt. You've done it so many

12:42KT: Well, I was going to do it when you said the discourse, but that would have been really dickish because you were talking about serious stuff,

12:48Oti: because we're talking about serious stuff. ha

12:50KT: Really though. Quickly.

12:51Oti: I don't know. Like those heaps growing up. I don't think I can choose one. I think I'd go Bret Hart. I don't know. When he tag teamed with Bret Michaels. Woo! Fire. He was in documentary as

13:08Oti: He was.

13:08KT: Sexual Chocolate. Yes. Thank you. I think I just said it. Rikishi. I have a typo. Tea.

13:14Oti: Yeah. I don't think I appreciated the, the ass rubbing back then, but

13:18KT: You do now?

13:19Oti: I do.

13:22KT: Thank you Alex Perry, Kurt Angle, and the team. That is literally the best way to end that review. Um, let's go into the next one. Shout outs to, uh, Nixco as well as Ihi Films, um, in Aotearoa for the opportunity to interview Alice Englert. It is, uh, on the main feed. It's also, um, on our YouTube channel as a video interview as well. Friends and lovers. Um, Oti didn't get a chance to watch it, but I'll give my first impressions and I'll just give a general impression on the film. This descent into madness works when it centres the tender moments of the human experience, the adult swaddling release when life gets rough.

14:01Oti: Adult swaddling.

14:03KT: It's literally that that's not even a euphemism.

14:06Oti: I know I, I, I saw the interview, which was really good, by the way.

14:10KT: Okay. So you didn't search an alternate subgenre of adult swaddling.

14:15Oti: Don't put my business out into streets.

14:18KT: You just talked about getting ass rubbed in your face. So,

14:23KT: and if you skipped right to Bad Behaviour, welcome friends and lovers. We're bad. We're nasty. And we're all of the behaviors. Um, This is, yeah, this is an interesting film because, you know, we are aware of the, the matrix of it all, and outside of film reviewing, there's obviously critiquing inside and outside in the Letterboxd of it all, so you're welcome to go and look at that sort of discourse, um, but even the film in and of itself is a very interesting film, and I, I think the best way I can describe this film is it's the most exciting for actors to be able to perform these roles, especially with Jennifer Connelly.

15:03KT: Like she fully commits to her batshit crazy character. And usually I wouldn't describe women as crazy, but she fucking wild.

15:14Oti: She OG wild.

15:16KT: Um, Jesus. Um, so, you know, like a child star troubled, going to a retreat, all of that woo, woo, woo nature. I'm surprised Nicole Kidman didn't jump out of the bushes.

15:30Oti: Wow.

15:31KT: Um, but yeah, like it was a really, it was really interesting to see how far I guess the proverbial fourth wall would go.

15:40Oti: Mm.

15:41KT: Cause I'm sure at any point in time, you could check my face in a mirror and it would be like, what the fuuuuuck?

15:49Oti: Yeah, I hear you

15:50KT: Um, also I just need a shout out just by, you know, just my little baby periphery. Shout outs to Beulah Koale as well as Robbie Magasiva. You kind of have all my kisses and love from the outset from there.

16:04KT: Um, but this film has like, pockets of emotion, and that's the parts that I really latched on to. Cause I'm sure it's a lot of fun to like, go full balls to the wall, and you know, um, if I may quote Woodhouse from Archer, quoting the woman tripping balls. Um. Yeah, I, I really enjoyed the sort of tender moments, whether it was the mother and the daughter, um, sort of dynamic or just the different sort of people that you would meet in a reach, like a retreat, um, sort of context as well. But it's shot in a very interesting way. It definitely has its quirky quirks. Um, there's a lot to really enjoy in this film, but there's also a lot of, like, white people, man.

16:49Oti: know,

16:50KT: Just like, whatever I imagine when I like your Instagram posts, it seems like that's what's going on, at least in the context of Bad Behaviour.

16:59Oti: Wow.

17:00KT: I sipped, I sipped the Kool Aid once. I ain't going to do it again, Oti. You ain't going to catch me in these streets.

17:08Oti: Yeah, so we know, so Englert, who was the writer director, right? She was also playing the daughter. Yeah.

17:15KT: Yeah.

17:16Oti: How was her performance in this?

17:18KT: She was really cool. And it was so interesting to even realize that later on that she is the writer and director of the film. And, you know, even the way she was talking about, imagine directing someone like Jennifer Connelly, like, are you really going to tell her to do it differently? Or to even do it again,

17:36Oti: What she's done, it's stumped. The cut is the

17:39KT: Um, but it's so cool to really just dive into, I guess what makes actors tick. And that is kind of an extension of what Bad Behaviour is as well. So you definitely get those delicious dysfunctional, um, sort of meta layers in there as well.

17:55Oti: Yeah. And I'm just looking forward to my adult swaddling. So looking for those classes.

18:01KT: We'll sit on my lap and find out, Oti, to, to, um, let's move on. Thank you to Jye Currie and the team. This is an independently made documentary. Um, and it's called The Promise. Let me get into my first impressions and we can have a little discussion. I can talk about my review. The Promise wades through a hard to talk about topic in mental illness in Australia. The hope throughout leaves the door open for much needed conversation.

18:31KT: Mental illness, um, not in a quirky Ari Aster way. Um, yeah, like, so this follows the journey of Craig Hamilton, um, an ABC journalist. And I, I believe the book was written about 10 years ago, um, where he talks about, um, friends and lovers. I'm going to put a little trigger warning, but I'm not going to go into detail, but he talks about suicidal ideation. He talks about his struggle for mental illness. Um, again, I'm not going to go into details. I'm not going to get super graphic. Um, but it also extends the story to some prominent figures in Australia, including a journalist called Jessica Rowe.

19:14KT: Um, and I, I understand a lot of the direction of the documentary. I think it does well to open up that conversation, you know, for those that live in so called Australia, we do have something called R U OK? Day. Um, and you know, it started off very pure, very innocent, very intentional. It still is. Um, but there is the whole notion that, you know, some people might say perhaps that asking R U OK? Isn't enough. If you're not equipped enough and, you know, even throughout the years of working in corporate culture, the sort of messaging and materials around R U OK? Day has gone beyond just asking, are you okay? It's talking about whether you're equipped or not, who to talk to, how to get resources and that sort of thing.

19:58KT: So it was interesting watching a documentary based on the life of an older journalist. Um, because that would have been at a time where, you know, R U OK? As well as other organizations weren't as prevalent or maybe didn't have much of a prominent sort of space in corporate culture, at least. Right. So at least for me, I was like, I was trying to understand, I guess, the, not necessarily the messaging. I think the messaging was quite clear in the documentary. I think it was more just understanding the, I guess, the next steps, the overall impact of the documentary.

20:32Oti: talked about, uh, the importance of the next steps, angle for everything. You know, we, we're not asking for people to come up with solutions, but an avenue, at least have an avenue open for that. Um, so does this do that?

20:46KT: Um, I don't think there were any listed resources in this film, maybe at the screenings, they might provide resources, but the resources weren't in there. But also when I was talking to Jye, he was saying that wasn't necessarily the focus of the film. Um, which, cause there was also some, like there was talks of some. That's, um, and there was talks of like health, um, you know, people in the health industry that, uh, you know, first responders and that sort of thing. Um, I would have liked to have explored what are the support services for first responders? What are the support services for mental health professional?

21:21KT: Cause they talk about, uh, you know, it wasn't necessarily the focus, but stats were there. And it talked about, you know, I don't remember what the stats, but essentially the point is, even if everyone wanted to go get help. We're grossly under resourced in this country. Right. But there wasn't any exploration of, okay, so if there's like not enough health professionals, what help are they getting? You know what I mean? Cause then they can only be as efficient as they are because we've seen Sopranos and we saw the therapist in Sopranos and how potentially unhelpful she was in some situations.

21:54Oti: Yeah, and not everyone can operate like Jennifer Love Hewitt in 9-1-1.

21:58KT: Look at you,

22:01KT: look at you, you reference cowboy.

22:03Oti: Hmm.

22:04KT: I think something that was also weighing on me as well. Um, this, this documentary wasn't full of just white people. We had, we had an Aboriginal player named Joe Williams. And to be perfectly honest, I resonated the most with him when he was talking in the documentary, when he was saying, you know, we can't wait around for people to ask you that they need to talk. We should be able to identify the signs. And I really resonated with that. Um, but something that. Uh, something that I had, I found hard to reckon with in a film about mental illness, in a film about, um, the immediacy of addressing suicide in so called Australia is the fact that the statistics for the highest rates of suicide is Aboriginal, as well as depending on which like suburbs like Western Sydney, for example, uh, Pacifica and Aboriginal indigenous black and brown youth in this country.

23:00Oti: Right.

23:00KT: And that's not to say it had to be tackled in this film, but it's interesting to talk about how important suicide is and how that wasn't addressed, even, even just a footnote. Joe Williams was in there, but there wasn't a focus on the youth. There wasn't a focus on what that funding could do. There was a focus on talent and people, people's faces that people would know. But how about the faces that we don't know? How about the faces that is chalked up to being from a bad part of the neighborhood? How about the faces that are chalked up to making bad decisions with lack of opportunity, lack of funding, not even to mental health services, just in general, right? And you know, I'm going to go toe to toe and you know, I'm going to say everything in the way that I review is my lens and experiences in this world.

23:44KT: So it was very hard for me to reckon with that. And it might just be a personal thing, but even if you want to talk about stats, the stats are there, right? So I found it really hard to, cause even in the documentary, it talked about how suicide is so common, how everyone has some sort of, or someone they love that has gone through it. And even I have. And we've talked about it. It might've been in Boy, it might've been in Hunt for the Wilderpeople, it might've been in some very specific Brown story, um, or it might've even been in black cinema that we talk about, but even, even if it's like an air of suicide or mental illness, it might've even been I May Destroy You as well, right?

24:21KT: We have facets of entertainment that is able to address this in a very succinct way, in a lens that we don't get to see in other spaces. You see what I'm saying? deep bit fan.

24:32Oti: Deep it.

24:33KT: We're from the, yeah, so I found it hard to reckon with that, but that is not, that is not any part of my identity that I would want to take off in order to view the film in a way that other people would, um, especially growing up in Western Sydney, you know? Um, so maybe it was made for Australia, but maybe it was made for different parts of Australia is all I'm saying.

24:54Oti: Yeah. Um, I guess with stuff like this, I'd just cast a wide net as can be covers as many people as you can.

25:01KT: I think the conversation is important. I think I'm just having a different conversation.

25:05Oti: hear you. I hear you. I hear you a hundred percent, you know, so it's important for the conversation to be

25:11KT: review. Um, you know, there are many topics that we talk about that are important. I am very comfortable in talking about that isn't necessarily easy for others. So I thank you for your love and your grace in getting through this review. Um, and not that anyone owes anyone levity, but let's move on to something a bit more fun and jovial. Let's talk about Bookie.

25:38Oti: Bookie shines with dynamic chemistry between its leads, brilliantly capturing a veteran bookie's struggle in a changing world. Their interplay adds depth to this edgy and compelling drama.

25:51KT: Oh, you drama wanker.

25:53Oti: I am.

25:54KT: My mind's a bit more tight. Mine's a little more get it right. Get it tight. A sensational colliding of worlds, mixing the blunt humor in Sopranos and what Tulsa King could have been.

26:09KT: justice for my Guilfoyle because that show was

26:16KT: I'm not coming for him specifically, but if he can't remember Michael B. Jordan's name, that's not my fault.

26:23KT: Shoutouts to the team at Binge as well as HBO, um, in the United States of America. Um, but let's talk about it. Uh, it's Chuck Lorre. Are you a big fan?

26:35Oti: I am a fan.

26:36KT: Okay. Just the fan. That's also good to know. Um, the show is already out. Um, there was an embargo on the cameos, but I don't even feel like we need to spoil the cameos of the show. Um, but generally, how do you feel about Bookie?

26:53Oti: I love it. It's what I expected Ballers to be. Baller?

26:58KT: Do you think I like Ballas? No. It's what I

27:01Oti: Ballers to be. And this discovers, the dialogue is, is, is quick, witty, it's, it's funny. The dynamisms between the characters. It's amazing. They play off each other so well. Um, you know, it's, it's the subtle things that they do, you know, even, even without saying anything, they just transmits and you can relate to that. Their show is definitely one of the, I didn't even know anything about this show when it got the screen. I didn't know it was. In, it wasn't in my radar for sure, but I am so pleased that I've

27:35KT: wild that sometimes we learn about things through screeners.

27:38Oti: Yeah. And I'm so, I'm so pleased that this ended up, you know, coming or at least us paying attention to it and, and watching it. It's one of those really, really good shows that I'm going to be rewatching for years to come.

27:53KT: I think, I think what is lost in like modern television programming is the character building.

28:00Oti: It is.

28:01KT: And I'm not even talking about flying around on a dragon. And I'm going to be quoting the grandma, you go HBO to basic cable. How am I supposed to watch my dragon shit? Um,

28:17Oti: No procedurals for you, man.

28:19KT: But you don't need to have fantastical elements. I'm not talking about cloak and dagger shit, but that also works in Succession as well, right? But there's a way that you build the characters to make us care. They could be inside of a white purgatory void and it wouldn't fucking matter because the character building is solid.

28:38Oti: It is. It is. We care about this character's

28:41KT: Every character in this show has an interesting sort of interaction with each other.

28:49Oti: Um, I think the moments in the later episodes where we felt it sort of didn't work in a certain episode, but overall it carried itself quite strongly. Um, it's,

29:06KT: It knew what it was, it didn't try to be anything more than what it was.

29:09Oti: Yeah. Stick, sticking to its lane, you know, and just going hard on it.

29:14KT: Such a fun watch, um, blame Elon Musk for the reason why we didn't hear about the show, but I guess also think recently the way we get access to screeners is because I had such a great time and I'm going to do it. I'm going to plug it. Now we enjoyed watching Ted.

29:32Oti: We did.

29:33KT: I don't think we can say much more than that, but Ted is coming up and it's going to be released and we gobbled that

29:38Oti: John, mark your calendars. Ted is coming out.

29:42KT: Yes, absolutely. All right, well, let's move into the next film. Um, while we're here, love splooshes, friends, and lovers, to everyone that entered our biggest ever giveaway, we gave away 15 double passes for the film, Uproar. We had over 85 entries, Oti.

30:05KT: Who knows, maybe we'll have like a global giveaway, but for now it was just in so called Australia. Um, unfortunately Oti wasn't able to make the screening and it has been a busy time, but hopefully you'll be able to update us when you get a chance. Um, thank you to Nixco as well as Kismet Films. Um, I'm going to give my first impressions of Uproar. Given the setting and the contemporary context, the decisions from a storytelling perspective softened its overall impact. What cannot be debated is the mana of the performances and the fight for

30:39Oti: Woo-hoo. Nice.

30:41KT: So I guess what I want to lay out there is given the setting. So this film follows a half white, half Māori, young boy that goes to a private school, which is majority white in Aotearoa, in New Zealand, and he's really at a conflict of who he is and what that means in the world. So when I talk about the setting in my pull quote, the setting is a young boy at the time of apartheid South Africa, where the Springboks tour was visiting or coming to like verse the All Blacks. And also contextually, they requested that the non whites, pretty much the Pacific Island, the players in the All Blacks didn't play against them.

31:29KT: I don't know how mathematically they were able to play with no team, but that was, but that was the setting of the film, right? And the contemporary context is, you know, free, free Palestine from the river to the sea right now. So it's interesting that the film chose to set itself in the time of apartheid South Africa, even the, and they even had scenes of protesting for, um, Tangata whenua, which is people of the land. So, you know, um, Māori people who are indigenous to Aotearoa, that was the setting of the film. Yeah. But they pussyfoot around that shit. Why?

32:08Oti: You tell me.

32:09KT: It's not to the Woman King level, but it's like you want to eat around the edges of oppression, but you don't want to get to the clit of colonization. Do you see what I'm saying? And I guess this is also to say, I did have very emotional moments in the film, which I guess just to alleviate all of us. There, there were two key moments that I got emotional in the film, and I don't want to spoil it in any way. But the biggest spoiler is it had to do with the Māori people. It had to do with the fighting against oppression and the struggle.

32:40KT: Um, and that's really where the heart of this film is. And that's really where this film thrives. But there's also moments where they want to highlight the pain, but they also don't want to acknowledge where the pain is coming from. Do you understand my coded spy message, Oti?

32:55Oti: Do. Having watched Spy x Family, I can decipher that quite well. You just need to remind

33:06Oti: Yep. I, I, I get that. Uh, and I think it, it's, it's a balance, right? It's a balance because at the end of the day, I think you want to have something that is consumable by majority of the people without feeling too preachy or without

33:22KT: sacrifice of the truth of our own people, because I would argue that this film wasn't made for Māori and Pacifica people for the comfortability. No, because you literally just said it for broad appeal. no, no, no,

33:35Oti: I just meant

33:37KT: you can be Greg, you can be Tom, you can be Greg, you can be Tom, you can be Connor at the deposition,

33:42Oti: so.

33:43KT: you just said it for broader appeal for the comfortability of non Pacifica, non Māori, non black South African people, they needed to dilute the overall message

33:54Oti: Oh.

33:54KT: because we need to be best friends at the end of the day, but how do we get to a revolution? We don't get to a revolution that way.

34:02Oti: I hear you, Kirk Franklin. But, we need I think, I get what you're saying, and I think this is where we need to sort of understand the vehicle of what's being carried.

34:14KT: But we, I need to do nothing.

34:18Oti: See what you're saying. I see, I see. I have not watched this movie, I don't even know why I'm going

34:22KT: No, no. But you're, you're trying to frame how films should be criticized and that's not correct. No,

34:27Oti: I'm not trying to frame anything. I'm not trying to say how you should frame this movie. I'm trying to simply add, I'm trying to delve into the context of this rather than anything else.

34:37KT: But if we can have films that actually talk about it, then let's talk about it.

34:42Oti: And I'm with you on that.

34:43KT: Are you sure? Cause you, you don't sound like you're part of the Fred Hampton coalition. You sound like you're on the other side, FBI Oti.

34:49Oti: Wow. I am not Bill O'Neal.

34:56KT: You're a Judas motherfucker though.

34:57Oti: Is true. But, I understand that. I really do. Um, how's our Ricky Baker?

35:02KT: Um, Julian Dennison will always be great. Um, also something that was interesting in the film was, it talked about how he didn't really understand a lot culturally. Which is fine. But then something happened that I can only describe as because movie that had happened. Um, but see, that's the thing. Like, don't ask me if a film is good. Don't ask me if film is bad. Ask me what we can talk about. That's the most, that's the most interesting and compelling thing for me. I don't care what the rating is. I don't care whether it's good. I think, you know, friends and lovers, if we had time for another podcast, it would be For Your Reference: Where is the lens pointing and who is this for?

35:42KT: Because I don't understand how we get a film with this setting, but we take our foot off the pedal of liberation of our tangata whenua and all of our tangata moana and I'm talking about people in Aotearoa, talking about Māori people. I'm talking about indigenous people of the Pacific.

35:58Oti: Jod and Piltortus, lens pointing is important. Be it internal, external, inwards.

36:03KT: Yeah, yeah, that's absolutely true. Um, also shout outs to Phoebe that came with me. Um, you know, Oti is my go to movie buddy, but Phoebe is also the, the silent investor movie buddy. Um, and we went to go and see it together and she gave me a lot of insight when it came to having mixed ancestry.

36:27Oti: Really?

36:28KT: Yeah, because I was like, what the fuck is this? And she's like, no, that's pretty accurate. And I'm like, Oh, are you okay? Um, but yeah, it was a really great community screening night. Um, and yeah, like the heart is where I want to stay. I just wish the heart had, um, surrounded the film as opposed to, you know, if I can use a Bible reference, be under a bushel.

36:53Oti: Oh, okay, Moses. Yeah,

36:56KT: Yeah, I can be a colonial humper like you too. Um, speaking of colonial Christian humpers, let's move on to the next review. Um, thank you to the team at Nixco. Um, we are reviewing The Prince of Egypt: The Musical. Friends and lovers that are well satiated, um, would already know that we did cover the animated DreamWorks film. Um, so you're more than welcome to check out that review. I'm pretty sure in that review, or is either in the Game of Thrones where I compared Moses to Daenerys. So have at it, play ball, have fun with that friends and lovers. Um, but we're getting into another, I don't think we've done it since Life of Pi, but this is like a filmed live play production of The Prince of Egypt.

37:43KT: Take us away, Oti.

37:45Oti: The Prince of Egypt: The Musical, enchants with its spectacular set design and vibrant choreography, infused with soul-stirring music that adds a fresh dimension to an epic tale. A truly captivating and melodious theatrical experience.

38:01KT: Hey, our melodious Daddy Oti,

38:03Oti: Mm hmm.

38:04KT: the smooth operator of us all. The scale of the production and aesthetics in costuming and casting is a delight to the eyes. The parts you loved from other adaptations and new parts to fall in love with.

38:16Oti: Nice. It's, it's weird, right? Because I know this story. We all know this story. It's been told a million times.

38:24KT: Tale as old as time, that's a different movie.

38:27Oti: is. But to sit

38:29KT: nights we pray. Why

38:33Oti: know, if you continue this, you're going to have to pay the license for that.

38:37KT: Maybe I sang it badly.

38:40Oti: Oh, yeah. It'll be like, keep your money, keep your money.

38:42KT: They're like, you take some money, take some money.

38:44Oti: Um, but I was wondering how this would, would sit with me or hard because like you all know, Catholic boy, watched this a million times, Charlton Heston back in the day, you know, Prince of Egypt, which we just covered as KT said, um, with this though, I sort of enjoyed that musical aspect of it because in as much as I

39:07KT: of the musical numbers.

39:09Oti: Some of the musical numbers, of course, that was the biggest one we were waiting for and how that would be done. I wasn't disappointed. I wasn't, but I was intrigued because hearing the story being told in a sort of musical way, I found it refreshing.

39:25KT: Cause some of the songs felt a bit Austra Ninja Naruto filler to me.

39:33KT: Think the thing to say is that I didn't care for Moses in, because, you know, Bible class is another thing you're, you're supposed to like who they tell you to like, right? But if you go to the animated film, um, I didn't, I did not like Moses from the start because he was not carrying, he was not carrying on like he wasn't from some privileged sort of lineage. Similar to Anastasia as well, right? So I didn't really like Moses, to be fair. So whenever he sang, I'm like, Oh, brother. Like, Ramses was cool, but I was like, I was really sticking out for the daddy. And I think that's very on brand for me. I'm just here for the daddy. Is on my tombstone, friends and lovers.

40:12KT: Um, I really enjoyed the fanfare. Um, Zipporah was like, kind of the MVP of the whole play.

40:20Oti: Oh, a hundred percent.

40:21KT: Like she was like the Fifth Harmony, she was the, whatever number of Pussycat Dolls, but you know, like she was really there and she brought it. She absolutely brought it. Um, what did you think about the casting? Because it's obviously way more accurate than the actual photos of the voice actors of the animated DreamWorks production. Pretty sure Patrick Stewart was in it. Wasn't he? He was the daddy.

40:48Oti: about it? He's in everything. Um, yes, I enjoyed the casting. And I'm with you. I found it hard to connect with Moses. Um, it felt a bit more, I don't know, because when he got introduced to Moses and his plight, or at least trying to figure out his purpose and all which he didn't even seem to wonder or care about.

41:11KT: Yeah,

41:14Oti: like it felt, I don't know if this is the issue with it being theatrical that it didn't show us the turmoil or him trying to understand or trying to pivot his trail of thought.

41:28KT: felt

41:31Oti: very woo. And now I feel, yeah. You know, and now I can. Yeah. And maybe that was just my thing, but in as much as it was hard to sort of buy into certain portions of, of why something is happening, you know, it all felt a bit to X mark in it. Just because the story dictates rather than us being led to that point. It's still,

41:55KT: It's a, it's a literal biblical

41:57Oti: I know.

41:58KT: I know. So

42:00Oti: be Moses.

42:01KT: no way, there's

42:02Oti: I know. I know. I just thought from a holistic storytelling perspective, I would feel that his decisions are driven by something rather than something that I've read in text. Like you had a problem with Passion of the Christ. Because you wanted

42:20KT: you Mel Oti Gibson.

42:23Oti: Because you wanted to be led to, you know, you wanted to be

42:26KT: No, and I still stand by it. I also say Superman, but you always bring up Jesus.

42:32Oti: Because

42:34KT: whether it's Jesus, whether it's Superman, whether it's whoever it is, you still need to build that emotional resonance. Maybe, maybe to the devout, you don't need to explain it. But to heathens and pagans like myself, you need to build that resonance with

42:49Oti: I hear you. I hear you.

42:51KT: Like I said, I dipped out once. I'm not dipping in again. Black Jesus, white Jesus, brown Jesus, any Jesus. Um, yeah, but it was a lot of fun. It was such a great, um, production. And I think, you know, like we watched the Hamilton one and it's like, okay, cool. I think it was the first sort of instance we watched of like a filmed, like production, like a play. Um, Life of Pi continues to blow my mind every day, feeling like Johnny Gill saying my, my, my, thinking about the Life of Pi play.

43:24Oti: actually think about it so much, I want to re watch it a lot of times.

43:29KT: just like hornily going into separate bedrooms thinking about the same things?

43:34Oti: Yeah, we are.

43:36KT: That's how you keep a spicy, friends

43:37Oti: Life of Pi changed how I look at, at, at a theater.

43:41KT: Old Testament, New Testament, the Book of Mormon stuff. They won't tell you how to keep it spicy, friends and lovers. That's how you do it. Um, who would you say is your favorite character in The Prince of Egypt play?

43:51Oti: Oh, Zipporah. Right?

43:52KT: Oh,

43:53Oti: She delivers in everything.

43:55KT: Deliver. Oh man. If we had time, it would be so fun to do the Bible with you, Oti.

44:05Oti: We can start, we can start a new podcast and just have, you know, go through the whole Old Testament.

44:11KT: Yeah. Maybe your Pontius Pilate friend might join,

44:14KT: Speaking of, I'm very excited for The Book of Clarence,

44:17Oti: Right.

44:18KT: Samuel, but thank you to the team at Nixco, um, for The Prince of Egypt. I am personally really bummed that we didn't get a screener for A Little Life.

44:29Oti: Yes.

44:30KT: But hopefully we can find a way to watch the filmed play of A Little Life because we watched the Dutch version.

44:37Oti: We did. We went to Adelaide for it.

44:38KT: We did. We traveled for it.

44:41Oti: Yes, A Little Life is one of our favorite books we've read.

44:46Oti: It will remain so for you, I think life everlasting. Amen.

44:55Oti: It is. And it's one of those things that I really want to see adapted into, into a miniseries because it will be one of the most captivating, gut wrenching shows you'll ever watch.

45:07KT: Take that, Sharp Objects! Ha!

45:10Oti: Can't even compare the two,

45:13KT: Well, um, let's round it out with a little bit of the environment. Um, thank you to Jasmine and the team at Addison, um, for the highlight to the short film, WhaleX.

45:27Oti: WhaleX offers a profound look into innovative research on simulating whale excretions, highlighting a unique approach to combating climate change and bolstering ocean health. An enlightening watch.

45:41KT: Yeah. Okay. Let me hold on to your big fin, Oti, and let's continue. When the world continues to look away from the rampant changing climate, others seek answers in the bottom of the deep blue sea.

45:53Oti: I see you put an LL reference there. You can't go one day.

45:57KT: I did my voluptuous round melon erotica wouldn't allow me otherwise. But, um, so this is a short film it's available on YouTube, friends and lovers. Um, and yeah, it, it talks about a way of sustainably being able to reverse the effects, um, of, I would say capital letter capitalism, um, and a lot of damage that has have that, that is, um, you know, presence in the waters. Um, and it's a way of replicating whale excrement. So even in my little pull quote, it was a very literal part in the pun of the bottom, um, of the deep blue sea. So, um, what did you think about the documentary?

46:39Oti: No, I found it intriguing. I think it's one of those things that I really didn't know anything about. I didn't know about the foundation. I didn't know about the funding that's been put in place for this. And I didn't know whale excretions can do that much. Um, so I was very intrigued by everything that this mini documentary covered. And

47:02KT: I found that very technical though.

47:05Oti: It has to be technical because coming in cold, I didn't know anything about it because I want to learn why this works, what it does. And I think they did deliver that rather than me sitting there and hearing about their backstory and why they wanted to delve into this project in the

47:22KT: I guess so, but I don't know, maybe I'm baby, but I found it hard to, I guess I found it hard to connect to the information and also it's interesting when we talk about like restorative sustainability. And, you know, this is my hat trick, friends and lovers, because this is the third time I've mentioned indigenous, um, culture, um, because they kept talking about how, you know, there's decades or, or, you know, there's hundreds of years of learning and it's like, okay, well, you also, you're definitely talking about indigenous practices. Like you can just say that, like, isn't that what science is? Shouldn't you cite your sources? Like there's such a, no, but there's such a, there's such an arm of sustainability. And it's like sustainability is anti capitalism because of the over mass consumption, because of the over production. If anything, it's undoing all of the damage that a lot of us benefit in being plugged into the capitalism matrix.

48:20KT: So how else do you learn that? Of course, science, but it was mentioned, there was like three different monikers that they were using. And it's like, just say indigenous knowledge.

48:30Oti: Well, the COP28 was like, what, a few days ago, a few weeks ago, and they, they thought, Oh, 2050 will be at net zero. No way of getting there. We've not come up with a plan and we will get there.

48:43KT: Okay, so now you're really getting me riled up, Oti, because my, again, I just talked about it earlier, the ana, our island nations were, were doing all they could to put literal lives on the line to get that sign. And all that was really committed was that they were going to transition away from fossil fuels. The world is fucking burning. What the fuck are you talking about? Are you gonna wait until there's no world left? You're just gonna send your thoughts and prayers, your well

49:15Oti: No one cares, because they won't be here to see that. Or at least they hope. Tuvalu,

49:20KT: all or even around the Caribbean. Parts of Africa, pretty sure it was Ghana, like, uh, uh, it's not even like slowly, very prominently, uh, feeling the brunt and, uh, the least to emit, and it annoys me that I even have to say it, but the least to emit carbon emissions.

49:38Oti: I hear you. I hear you.

49:40KT: There's no way to talk about sustainability. There's no way to talk about repairing the earth without acknowledging the damaging tools of colonization and capitalism that a lot of us are bearing the brunt of that we were never the beneficiaries of to start off with. So yeah, credit us in your whale poop then.

49:57Oti: Ha ha ha ha ha. I hear you, um. And I feel you, like, I get it. I don't know how many times I

50:07KT: how many times are you going to say it? Genuinely?

50:09Oti: Ha ha. But, overall I think it does cover a very intriguing aspect of trying to battle the sort of changing, um, environmental issues that we're

50:21KT: the hands of who? Where's the lens Oti? Yeah.

50:25Oti: Lens needs to be pointed inwards. I know whether that happens. We are yet to see, um, but all we can do is fight on a good fight, have people with a whale foundation.

50:37KT: who will,

50:38Oti: Wow.

50:45KT: Well I found a way to diffuse with humor.

50:47Oti: Wow. I cannot even, I have no words, I have but yeah, it's, I think it's one of those things that you need to watch just because a lot of clever people are involved in this and the idea is, man, I wouldn't have thought of something like this existed. So yeah. Kudos, man.

51:07KT: Oh, well, thank you, friends and lovers. Um, we still are planning to do a full review of, I don't know if we're not recognizing Tim Burton and Johnny Depp's, um, Wonka, but we do have the Gene Wilder, um, as well as the Timothée Chalamet, um, Wonka coming up very soon. Um, and then we also have our two parter Christmas special friends and lovers.

51:31Oti: Two purts!

51:33KT: Thank you so much. We love you so much. Um, hopefully if you're in the cold parts of the world, you are sufficiently warmed up and if you're in the cold parts of the world, you're also warmed up because of fucking climate change. Fuck yeah.

51:46Oti: Yeah, you heard her.

51:48KT: If you need more of that heat, if you need more of that smoke on Twitter, Instagram, Spill and Bluesky, we're @ForYourRefPod.

51:56Oti: Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

51:59KT: We're also on Festive Tidings Podcast. If you'd like to leave us a rating or review and we'll see you guys soon.

52:06Oti: See ya! Bye!

52:07KT: Bye.