Anastasia – A royal pain in the Bartoks (with Angus Eye Tea)

Full transcript of Anastasia – A royal pain in the Bartoks (with Angus Eye Tea).

0:00KT: Welcome. Welcome. We are starting off with a verbal Quid Pro Mo. It was such a delight to have Elaine from the Angus Eye Tea podcast come on to this very whimsical episode for this week. Check her out, angusit.com, and all of those delicious social handles. Let's get on with the show. Meet me at the ballroom. Bring along your dog and your tally of burns because this week, we are covering the 1997 Anastasia today.

0:56KT: Nice. Welcome, welcome, welcome to the For Your Reference podcast. You got to hear us, KT.

0:56Oti: And Oti.

0:56KT: And we have the most elegant, the most delightful of guests to join us on this delightful coming of age story. Would you like to introduce yourself?

1:13Elaine: I would. It's me, Elaine Best from Angus Eye Tea, and also the biggest fan girl of For Your Reference. And I'm just very honored to be here after sending you message after message, asking to be on here stalking you for a past like year and a half. I'm just glad to be here finally. So thank you.

1:29KT: Thank you so much. And unfortunately, fortunately, you're not the first guest to say you've barged your way into here, and we really much appreciate it. So let's quickly get into the stats. We have directors Don Bluth, Gary Goldman, writers of Susan Gauthier, Bruce Graham, stars Meg Ryan, John Cusack, Christopher Lloyd, Hank Azaria, I guess, if you wanna mention him, but not his Simpsons him. Box office, we have $50,000,000 and had a cumulative worldwide gross of a $139,800,000.

2:09Oti: Wow. It did quite well. More than I expected.

2:12KT: Damn. Oti is coming out with the fire. We haven't even started with first impressions. Well, you know, like the most learned of guests, I guess this is where we start. Oti, since you're ready to drop your mixtape, let's start off with our first impressions. Anastasia, I think we are all in the same realm of thinking we're young but not being able to understand TikTok young. So this was kind of our age range when Anastasia came out. So have you watched it before? How did you feel watching it in your adult life?

2:49KT: Just generally, what were the feels? Because if you would like to check out or if you have checked out, we do have a Lion King episode where Oti talked a lot about the feels of it. And I guess if there are any feels for Anastasia.

3:05Oti: So this was my first time watching it. I've heard of Anastasia, but I'm not sure why I didn't even bother watching it when it came out or throughout my whole life up until now. We learned about the Russian revolution in school, and I think part of that played a part in me not watching it. Uh-oh. No. No. Because I'm I'm from Kenya, and it has its issues with with with some autocratic nonsense that goes around in bettering the 1%. And I was like, oh, do I really wanna watch a family that essentially that? And

3:46Oti: as sad as what happened to them was, I don't know. I just didn't feel like I want to involve myself in all that. But watching it yesterday, it was really nothing like that. And I think they didn't try to make it seem as if it was something that it's not. And I appreciated it for that level. I loved Once Upon a Time in December. It was really Yeah. It's it's one of the best tunes I've had. And I think at the end of it, just I felt,

4:19Oti: okay. That wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. And it's it's an okay movie. You know?

4:28KT: Is anyone else experiencing whiplash from that three sixty of Oti? Wow. We are full of dimension in the For Your Reference household, and I thought we were going to get Oti in the Shrek episode where he was very grumpy, but I guess we'll see. But music music can turn you all the way around. Let's let's continue with myself. Lion King, Mulan, and even Aladdin were in heavy rotation when we're in our childhood. I don't think we even had the VCR tape of Anastasia. Mhmm. Whether we could afford it or not is a story for another sad KT time.

5:11KT: But we really just kind of watched those Disney movies growing up. I've heard of the name, like you said, but I never really I don't think I even watched, like, parts of it either. I just knew that it was there. And it's interesting that it came out in 1997 because it is one of the more serious sort of Disney stories for, like, younger sort of kids. And even watching it now, as much as I enjoyed it, it did feel like I don't know how I would have received it as a kid

5:45KT: because there were magic elements to it. So I guess it could, you know, stretch that imagination as well. But it was fucking dark, man. And, you know, even reading that this isn't, like, the full you know, it's not the full Snyder Cut version of the Romanov history. Like, it's a lot. It's it's definitely a lot. I guess this is also just to say, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, we are going to get into it. But, you know, as the creator said, this is a fairy tale that takes place in Russia, so it's not spoiling Russian history,

6:21KT: which is again, it is it is a discussion for today, but I'm not sure how in-depth we're going to go. I did enjoy the singing. I thought the singing was good. I like how the dog became the vehicle to bring characters together. That was one of my notes when we were watching it. Because I'm like, how is Anastasia going to meet with Dimitri and Vlad? And then it just it was the magical dog. And for your reference, anxiety, we are very partial to dog heroes or giving dogs a higher hierarchy than ourselves.

6:55KT: But just generally, I enjoyed it, but I yeah. I don't think I would have consumed it in a way that I consume the other Disney films growing up if I had watched it at that age.

7:07Oti: Yeah. I see that. And I think one of the interesting things about watching it now, it made me want to go and read more on it. Like, so if I watched it as a kid, I'd think I'd be so into, oh, what really happened during the Russian revolution? What was Anastasia all about? And it would have broken me reading that they all pretty much died. If if you if you if you we already said spoilers, so you can't I can't really spoil history, so it happened.

7:35KT: And that's it. History spoils itself. Put that on a t shirt, Oti. Preach. Well, now it's your turn to preach, Elaine. Like we've mentioned in our other guest episodes, you know, not not not for anything, but we we are very generous in the For Your Reference household, and we do allow our guests to choose what we're going to cover today. So, naturally, this is going to evoke a lot. Perhaps it might evoke a lot in us while it's evoking you. Who knows? So feel free to share

8:07KT: how you feel about this movie and even up until today.

8:10Elaine: Yeah. So first off, I love that I got to bring this movie into your lives. I feel honored, Disciple of Anastasia, it's working. But this movie has been part of my life since I was three or four years old. I don't know what brought my parents to get it, but it became my obsession. So it got to the point where I asked my mom to do my hair like Anastasia.

8:34Elaine: I had the jewelry box and the necklace. I had the figurines. I even had the painting of the Romanov family, which is a real painting, but then they made it a toy within the Anastasia box that you got. So I have a fake toy version painting of the Romanovs, which is kind of weird if you think about it, because again, they were real people. But this movie, I think I was so drawn to her sassiness.

8:55Elaine: And I look back, because I did not have the same obsession with other Disney princess vibes, because technically she wasn't Disney at that time, but everybody was losing their minds over Little Mermaid, and I just really honed in on Anastasia, and I think it's cause she is such a sassy, feminist little character up in here, and I think I liked that because I had two older brothers, and they kept doing nanny nanny boo boo, girl suck, and I was like, look at the Grand Duchess of Russia.

9:29Elaine: Kind of like what you guys mentioned, so as I got older, I started to learn, oh, this isn't fiction, this is actually history. And then I learned that they all died, and that was kind of a bummer. When you grow up loving this movie, you're like, oh my god, wait, they're real. It's like a dream come true. It's like my childhood movie was real, and then it gets very shot down very quickly because they died. And I think Oti, you brought up a really good point that this movie,

10:01Elaine: it takes a lot of different fragments actually of history and throws it all together. But they kind of didn't cover some of the more important parts of Russian history, like Rasputin is the evil guy, whereas there was actual political tensions there. But overall, loved the movie, and it actually made me want to know more about Russian history in general. And so to this day, I have five Romanov books on my bookshelf right now, and

10:30Elaine: I've learned everything possibly I could about the demise of the Romanov family. I know a lot. I have a book specifically about Anastasia. I have a book about the woman who actually impersonated her, Anna Anderson. And this is a whole history hole that I'm just falling into, I can feel like right now. But yeah, basically it shaped me as a human. It's hard to say, I don't know why kids get addicted to things like that, but that was my thing. And I was telling y'all earlier, yeah, I watch it biannually,

10:59Elaine: at least, just to refresh myself. If I feel like I'm losing my way, I'm like, oh, you know what, should watch a children's movie. The soundtrack is a bop. It slaps. It's sickening.

11:12KT: It's a banger.

11:14Elaine: Yes. Once Upon a December is iconic. I sing it all the time around Christmas, and people are just staring at me in the middle of grocery store as I break out in Anastasia tunes. But no, it's shocking because, again, it wasn't Disney, and yet it was able to have that quality that I feel like a lot of non Disney animated movies were just like, they felt awkward as you watch them. You were like, Oh, this is really sad for you, I feel kind of uncomfortable here. But I felt right at home with Anastasia.

11:45Elaine: So that's my very aggressive life obsession with this movie. And now I'm 26 years old, and I'm just still here, excited about it, Red in the face. I can feel flushed already, so this is off to a great start.

11:59KT: Well, maybe that's why we never came across it. Do you know when it became a Disney film, not to put you on the spot? No. It was only a few years ago, actually.

12:08Elaine: Yeah, maybe that's why then. Five to six years. Yeah, so it wasn't as mainstream. I think the reason why it probably got a good boost is because I think about, what was it? It might've been only like three to four years earlier. I don't know how much you know about the actual imposter of Anastasia, and it follows with the plot, so I don't have to get too into it. But basically, there was this woman who claimed to be Anastasia, and everybody was hoping like, oh, we hope Aronoff actually made it out of the execution.

12:37Elaine: And so this is where the whole theory of, oh, Anastasia's gone, what if she did leave, and the conspiracy grows. And then we suddenly have this woman in 1922, I think, which is ten years ish after the execution of the royal family, and she's like, Hey, my name's Anna, but I think I'm Anastasia, and nobody is able to confirm if it's her or not until 1994 something, I don't know, early '90s. This is where I lose my credibility as a history buff, but just trust me, still I make a

13:09Elaine: am the only person that's right. I make history. But yeah, basically, they did a DNA test because we finally had that technology, learned she wasn't Anastasia, and then two years later, this movie drops. So it's very timely, and I think that's probably what helped boost it forward. To me, it's kind of a weird political move that they released this movie

13:34Elaine: in the way that they did. But of course, as a kid, I didn't care about any of that. I was just like, Fuck yes, girl. You've got a cool dress and a jewelry box. I'm into it.

13:46KT: Well, I think the question on everyone's hot little mind is, have you ever cosplayed as Anastasia?

13:55Elaine: Look, what I do at night on Saturdays on a webcam

13:58Elaine: is between me and my clients. Okay?

13:58KT: And what you do on a Tuesday night is available for everyone. Yes. Actually.

14:06Elaine: And you know what? If you think about it though, again, I asked my mom every single day, Can you do my hair like Anastasia? And I just don't know

14:14Elaine: at that point, Is it cute? Is it weird? What's going on with you? So I don't really know where I landed with that. I never went as her for Halloween, which is shocking to me now that I think back on it. But I guess that's because I embodied her every single day of my life. So yeah.

14:14KT: Because naturally, you were her, so you didn't need to put on a costume.

14:14Elaine: We were one. I was Elenastasia, really, which I would like you to refer to me from here on out. Really, actually. And take some notes.

14:45KT: It received more nominations than Hercules, which was Disney at the time. It was one of the few non Disney, non Pixar animated movies to be nominated for an Academy Award since An American Tail, was in 1986. So lots of plaudits for Anastasia on the podcast and also in real life. So let's let's start off talking about the movie generally. Let's talk about Anastasia as an actual character. Feel free to pepper in some some, like, historical sort of stuff. I do want to unpack

15:19KT: in every sense of the word, the comment that you mentioned that she was a feminist or at least for the time. Oh, let's not let's not deduce. She's a feminist. So would you like to expand on that a bit more, Elaine?

15:31Elaine: I would love to. Yeah. So this is one of the few movies I feel like when I look at the other ones where I was growing up, that Anastasia doesn't necessarily have to be saved by a guy. And we'll get probably to that part later. But even though Dimitri comes and helps her, she's still the one that saves herself. Her motivations aren't based on getting a guy, and she also stands up for herself and doesn't kind of, I don't know,

15:58Elaine: lessens her attitude to be ladylike or anything like that. I think my favorite line she says is, goes, Men are such babies, and there's just a lot of that grand duchess energy she throws around that is just very attracting, And think that because of that too, and she's a little more rough. She isn't all prim and proper and cutesy. She's scrappy, I think is a good word. A little scrappy feminist, I'd say.

16:28Oti: Yeah. Yeah. That's that's a very interesting take. The thing that threw me off yesterday, I was like, oh, that's weird for a Disney movie. I didn't I didn't know it wasn't a Disney movie up until I was like, oh, when at the end of it all, they don't even have this big grandiose wedding, and they elope. I was like, that's very non Disney like. Yeah. That would have been such a big fanfare at the end of it all, and I was like, oh, interesting.

16:54KT: And I think that's also a very good contrast when they were at the theater, and they were watching Cinderella because it is very polar opposite to that. You have that grandiose, I got myself a man with my missing shoe. And, you know, we ride off into the sunset with our pumpkin. Yeah.

16:54Elaine: And she has a personality outside of being royalty.

17:17Elaine: Like, that isn't her personality. That's just her trying to find herself, and then it's a side effect. So I just feel like she's more likable and realistic overall. I feel like she has, like, normal body proportions too, to an extent. I mean, like, everybody animated is just, like, incredibly skinny and stuff all the time. But in terms of, like, seeing other animated people, I feel like she seems more on the realistic

17:40Elaine: side. I don't know how you guys feel about that, but I am. I'm just I would thinking of like agree. Not either. Oh, no. Keep going back to Little Mermaid. Girl, you ain't gonna have that nice kind of hair and salt water. And I don't know what your waist is made of, but I feel like someone sneezes and your bones probably fall apart. And I feel like that wouldn't happen to Anastasia, the animated character that they presented.

18:03Elaine: So I think I also like that, because it wasn't so I know, I feel like there's a lot of manipulation to little girls who watch things, and there's this big commercialization of princess culture, and it's actually very interesting. There's some rabbit holes you can go down if you want to ever look it up, but it's very manipulating about your body image and self esteem, and I think I just like Anastasia, and I'm not saying it's perfect, it just to me is a very refreshing, not forcing a certain kind of, I guess,

18:36Elaine: frou frou princess thing, if that makes sense, which all to you if you love it. It just didn't seem so I don't know what the word is I'm going for. It's just amazing. Maybe that's where I'm heading. But yeah. What do you think about that?

18:51KT: Yeah. Relative to the young sort of heroines that you would have, she's definitely more realistic and especially in regards to her body. I would disagree near the end, though. Because when she was at the opera, I'm like, what kind of waist trainer is she putting

18:51Elaine: That's fair. That's fair.

18:51KT: Like I was like, where was that body that whole time? Wow, woman.

19:12Oti: That is a great She was wearing an oversized coat through it all.

19:17KT: Yeah. Maybe that's the nineties version of in the eighties where they would take their glasses off and put their hair down, and they become the hottest gal around. Maybe that's the nineties version.

19:28Oti: Well, you well, you're seeing her in in Russia. It's freezing cold. She's outside pretty much most of the time, so you're not gonna get to see that figure all the time.

19:39KT: Yeah. I I I guess so. But I it's interesting because I would actually like those sort of resonance that you have, I actually have that for Mulan because she wasn't doing anything. Well, daddy Shang, yes, please. I'll take another make a man out of you. Thank you. But I would say and, eventually, I guess, we will cover Mulan even though twenty twenty is very exhausting. But I felt the same way that you felt watching Mulan even though I didn't have that frame of reference. But I, you know, I really latched on to Mulan

20:16KT: as a character and how she transformed through that. I just wanna share a note that I had while watching Anastasia. For someone that doesn't remember anything, Anastasia sure acts like a royal, which is also I love you, Elaine, but I feel like I'm, like, politely disagreeing with you. The reason why I wrote that is because, I guess, what could be perceived as her being her own independent sense of self, I just saw it as someone that that was really rich and really wealthy where, yes, she is a female,

20:53KT: but she was allowed to carry on a particular way. The fact that I say allowed is very sad, but it is true to the times. You know? Women were to be seen and not heard, especially little girls. But she did walk around with an air of, not necessarily entitlement, but she walked as if she was allowed to walk, which is a beautiful thing. But it was weird for someone to be from an orphanage without any sort of,

21:22KT: you know, understanding of who she was as a person. And she really walked in her own truth. And I'm like, she really seems to act like she knows who she was before because someone from where she came from, like from an orphanage, I wouldn't expect them to be so encompassed, if that makes sense.

21:41Elaine: Yeah, no, I definitely see Ray coming for that. I actually agree. She definitely has She had a pretty solid upbringing and, I don't know, I guess in a way, it's like they show her that she's had a rough fit, but you're right. She still has that pristine bravado that probably comes from having that privilege of being royalty. And that's actually a big thing they don't get into, is why was everyone revolting against the Romanovs at that point? It's because they were living in luxury and everyone was starving. So it's kind of

22:19Elaine: a thing. So yeah, I actually agree with you that she definitely acts like she deserves things, which in some ways is a great mood. But yeah, that definitely probably comes from her being raised within a palace with food again.

22:36KT: Maybe it's royal muscle memory. Maybe that's

22:40Elaine: I think that's the technical term. Yes. Yeah. Royal muscle memory. We're gonna put that on a shirt as well.

22:46KT: I I think the best example or one of the early examples in the film where I felt that, which is probably when I wrote that note, was when they were on the train and they had realized that the ink was wrong, so their counterfeits were wrong. So they had to leave that cabin and actually go into the stowage. Mhmm. Right? She

23:06KT: really kicked up a hissy fit about that. And I'm like, lady, you just came from an orphanage. Why do you care? Like, you should just be happier on the train, mate. Like

23:06Elaine: Well, it's a success. She went to an orphanage, and somehow no one stole her gold emerald necklace. Yes. I think about And that all the I actually wrote that down as a note as well. Was like, so you're telling me she goes through rough an orphanage after being on the streets of St. Petersburg for a hot second, in the middle of a revolution,

23:32Elaine: and no one stole that? And somehow someone got her a job? They didn't have to. They could have been like, you're 18, bye. But they got her a job, and she's like, I don't know if I want to go to the job though, maybe I should follow my hopes and dreams. And this isn't to bash my girl, but yeah, there's a bit of, I don't know, you're in KGB Russia now, and these are some pretty solid opportunities that have been handed your way. And

24:02Elaine: you're kind of not, I don't know if appreciative is the right word, but very stubborn, determined, teenage

24:10Elaine: royalty vibe, I guess.

24:10KT: Yeah. And I think I think if if we can get meta for a second, I think it's also the rating that restricted it from the depth of, you know, the reality. I was saying to Oti when we were watching it, aside from the aesthetics, like, the the very distinctive, like, Russian architecture, you could have plunked this story in anything from the sense that they don't really scratch beneath the surface. I would have liked to have known more about Rasputin and what he actually did and the demise

24:43KT: and, you know, all the treachery. I'm all about the treachery around here. But I I guess that's the restriction on the rating. Like, you you wanna be able to have this for kids, but also at the same time, a lot of the motivations can come off very not necessarily superficial, but you don't really get those layers of complexity. And I guess that's what I would say maybe the qualms that I had are more so the fact that it is geared towards kids, so they can't really you know,

25:14KT: as much as three or four year old Elaine was watching this Yeah. I'm sure you didn't learn I'm sure you didn't learn at three or four that they all fucking died. No. And Rasputin Rasputin died, and I think he got thrown into a river or something. Yeah. Like, that's that's not something for kids.

25:30Elaine: No. Not quite. Not quite. Yeah. No. I I wish so hard because, I mean, that's why it was kind of fun for me is when I started learning the actual history behind it, it was fun to see the little highlights they were able to include, and get hinting at, the song, There's a Rumor in St. Petersburg, because we can't actually talk about it. Have to keep it on the DL, because otherwise we will be taken to a gulag. But we don't talk about the gulags and Anastasia. It's just silliness.

26:00Elaine: But yeah, I mean, I feel like, I mean, you talk about Rasputin, he is a weird ass guy in real life. So in a weird way, he kind of fit as, like, if they were gonna choose a villain. I was like, yeah. That's fair. He was weird. He smelled bad. He had the same haircut. He was weirdly in the ear of the empress. People felt uncomfortable, they hated him. So I was like, okay. Fine. If he's gonna be the villain, sure. I feel it. And he's, like, one of my favorite villains.

26:27KT: And I guess well, this wasn't a Disney film at the time, but I also made a note saying that well, I guess it's not Disney, but I did make a note saying, Disney really like animating the villain, so you're a 100% sure of who the villain is.

26:46Elaine: Yeah. He was not pretty.

26:48KT: Because he supposed to be Russian because he didn't look like everyone else. Or was it just to magnify his evilness?

26:55Elaine: I don't know. I think so if I recall, Rasputin so he's supposed to be a monk. And this is my other Okay, this is a qualm I do have. It's not clear why Rasputin has to be the villain, and why he's so mad at the Romanovs. I know that, what, he was supposed to be banished or something, but it didn't seem too bad. And no one really said why, and then he just comes back and he's all like, I'm a curse your family line, break a fucking chandelier,

27:23Elaine: and then piece off to the demon world. I don't know, it seemed a bit much. But he, yeah, he very much has, let's make him look as dead as possible, even when he is alive, and he's not this cuddly, cute Russian just walking around. I don't know, I have no idea. But yeah, that's a choice. I'm sad I did never dress like Rasputin. I should've asked my mom to do my hair like that more often.

27:50KT: It would be a Rasputin reference affair.

27:56Oti: I don't know why people allow me to speak on this podcast, but, you know what know what would make a great live action, I think? Anastasia would be the perfect candidate. Oh, absolutely. Oh, yes. If you wanted a greeter movie than, like, they wanted to do Mulan, I think Anastasia

28:11Oti: is just the perfect fit.

28:11KT: Would you keep Rasputin in it? Because, Elaine, feel free to share. But from what I could see, the musical didn't include Rasputin. So, Oti, would you think Rasputin and Magic should be in the live action, or do you think they should keep it a bit more grounded?

28:30Oti: More grounded. Rasputin wasn't really the main evil anyway, so say get rid of Rasputin and keep Once Upon a Time in December. Any way possible, keep that in. Forever.

28:43Elaine: Just actually an hour and a half of just Once Upon a Time in December. I I can't even say it right. I'm just flustered. Keep in all of the songs on a loop with a black screen, and I'll be happy. But no, I feel like they have so much they could do, I agree, keep it grounded. And like you said in the musical, they do actually have the villain, so to speak, be a guard

29:05Elaine: in the KGB, I believe, and he's trying to take down Anastasia once he learns that she might've lived. And they do talk, they play more with the politics, but the musical is still able to have kind of a light feel to it. But I feel like they talk more about the repercussions of, if Anastasia comes back, what does that look like for all of Europe? Because that would change a lot of things.

29:29Elaine: But I'm so here for it. I am ready. I will audition for every single role. Even if I'm Bartok, I'm ready. I think I'm sassy enough. I got the hip moves. I will probably cry, and I might be dead at the end of it. But I will do anything to make that happen.

29:43KT: A Norbit-esque Elaine playing everyone in Anastasia.

29:50Elaine: I could do it. It's everyone's worst nightmare. Other people have been so excited for years, so then they just see me, and I'm just, like, wearing a mustache, and then I'm wearing some awful, like, paint job to be a a tiny bat.

29:50KT: Oh, god. I love it. The possibilities

30:07KT: are endless, friends and lovers. From from what I could read, and I think what we what we've all read, no matter how learned or how IMDb trivia'd, Rasputin wasn't even alive. They just didn't wanna make it too political, so they just inserted him. I I I guess let's talk a little bit about the magic because that kind of surrounds Rasputin. And I think that also is supposed to explain how he comes back to life as well, or at least it's another way to take some steps away from the political sort of reality

30:40KT: that it it is so woefully trying to not acknowledge. But I guess some questions I have is, how does the magic work? Why wasn't it able to find her in general? Because I would think that the the magic will be powerful to find you anywhere

30:57KT: in the world, and is it a proximity thing?

30:57Oti: I think they sort of played with the not played. They sort of insinuated of the truth of what happened because we see Rasputin fall into the river, and he is a living corpse. So the fact that he's slow he's decaying Mhmm. Is a reason why the spirits or whatever, the magic,

31:19Oti: that Anastasia is still alive and his sort of curse isn't complete yet. They're insinuated to that, or at least he said that to Bartok that when they met the first time.

31:19KT: So you're saying the magic is symbiotic? Because I thought the magic existed independent

31:33KT: of Rasputin because it activated it before we even knew that Rasputin was still alive. Or you're saying off screen, he activated at the same time the magic chalice. It's not even a fucking chalice. It's a $2 chalice for for your reference. The t's shooter thing. Glow stick.

31:52Oti: Well, Bartok had the glow stick. And when they saw Anastasia so I think maybe it's a proximity thing rather than it going out and looking actively for whether or not Anastasia lived. Uh-huh. And the fact that it's still there just meant that there's someone still alive and the curse isn't complete. So it just stayed dormant until

32:11Oti: she it was in close proximity and then activated.

32:11KT: But shouldn't it have been active for those whole ten years if she was still alive? That's what I'm not understanding. Elaine, we are drowning in waters. We cannot get out them.

32:11Elaine: I am drowning there with you, because I'm just thinking, if you've got Satan on your side, wouldn't you have a lot of power?

32:29Elaine: But I think, honestly, Rasputin died, and then in that weird underworld thing, he just got lazy. He's like, I don't know, I probably got all of them, maybe. Ah, what's one girl? And then, you get bored. You have a lot of thinking time, and clearly your body is literally falling apart. I'll never forget when he sneezes or something, and his fucking skull comes out of his head. How is it How still did he not turn into a deflated balloon? One of my biggest issues with the movie. But yeah, the magic part is convenient,

32:58Elaine: but I'm gonna go with a shit glow stick that only works when Romanov blood, I guess, is really close by. I mean, because who knows where in bum fuck Russia she ended up in that orphanage and stuff. But interesting that the bat just like because Bartok isn't I don't know, I feel like with Iago, right, in Aladdin, he's very, very good henchman, and then he turns good. But I feel like Bartok is just not a good henchman. He's just there. He's lonely.

33:26Elaine: And so I guess this glow stick thing is all he has, the demon Satan power that this bat is just casually holding. And then, I don't know, literally gets dragged into it. So yeah, the powers to me don't quite make sense in that realm.

33:42KT: Well, of not making sense, from what I could see two years later, Bartok the Magnificent was released. And I must ask, is this also part of your collection of Anastasia Love Fest?

33:59Elaine: We don't fucking talk about that shit here.

34:05KT: If I was to say notice we didn't even mention Bartok up until now either.

34:11Elaine: He's so, mean, okay, he has one great line, and it's when he's talking to Rasputin about how, yes, you have this satanic power, but I, a tiny bat, would totally go after her. I give her a and a and thy geeker, sir. Why can't the bat just do it? But otherwise, he's just kind of bland, and that might be a hot take. I think people love Bartok, but let's,

34:32Elaine: you're gonna make a sequel about this movie that has a lot of ways you can go more in-depth, I think, and still even be child friendly if you want to explore more of it, you know what I don't fucking want? Is a fucking bat that falls in love with some bat that's pink, which is supposed to signify that she's a lady lover, and not that she has some weird fucking disease. Do you think I want that plot? I don't, I don't. Why would I, of all the things,

35:01Elaine: all the things you could focus on in all of Russian history, it is huge, it is weird. There have been more than one impersonation attempts.

35:09Elaine: There was a dude named Dimitri, back in the, what, 1400s or something, and he was like, I'm the king right now, and then he died. And then casually, a couple years later, someone's like, Oh, it's me, I came back. And everyone was like, Yeah, I guess. And then a year after that, they were like, Wait, you're lying. And he's like, You're right, bye bye. And then a couple years after that, a different fucking guy is like, Actually, I am the real Dimitri. People buy it again. He gets married to the wife of the OG Dimitri, and no one questions

35:37Elaine: it until fifteen years later. You're telling me you couldn't at least give me that? No, I got two fucking bats. Anyway, it's not my favorite movie, but.

35:46KT: Can the real Dimitri please stand up? It's also very clear that Bartok Elaine is Shrek Oti. And I guess Oh. Maybe Uncut Gems KT? Like, we found the holy trinity of rampage.

36:08Oti: I just don't understand, Elaine, how it could be mad at a pink bat.

36:12KT: Well, I think it would be diseased if it was pink.

36:15Elaine: Yeah. Well, first off, bats are just full of diseases. I've never known of a white bat to begin with. And then to have a pink bat, which just thank you. You couldn't have just made her eyelashes longer, like some classic animated shit. No. We're gonna paint her fucking pink? What? What?

36:36KT: Well, at first, I thought I was like, why are these some really malnourished looking Pinky and the Brains? I didn't realize I didn't realize there were bats until I think it was later on in the film where he, like, flips upside down when he's with the little test tube baby thing. So

36:53KT: I didn't realize they were bats either. From what I can see in this trivia, it was a black bat, but then they wanted to make it white just to give it a point of difference, just to make it look a bit more mystical and different. I'm not I don't know. I don't know. When I think of unicorns, I think of white bats as well. Nailed it, guys. Good job. Wow. I I am loving this side of you. This is great.

37:19Elaine: Does Bartok get to talk, but Pooka doesn't? Pooka is the real, like, MVP of the animals. Why wasn't Bartok a bear? Can we discuss? Russia, bears, Cute. An evil bear that maybe turns out okay? Great. A bat? Anyway.

37:34KT: Anyway and lovers, if you if you've welcome. If you've come over from the Angus Eye Tea land. But if you are listeners of the For Your Reference podcast, you need to definitely listen to Angus Eye Tea. She has great segments, but she she also has guided meditations. I would love for you to do a Bartok inspired guided meditation, Elaine.

37:58Elaine: I probably need to do one now. I have tea right next to me and I'm just like, Elaine, you gotta breathe and calm the hell down. It's okay. Yeah, you know what? I will. It's for a very niche audience, but it's what I think my soul does need. And I can do a Shrek one as well in an Uncut Gems. You guys just let me know. We'll find peace at the end of this. We'll find our peace.

38:24KT: I hope so. Let's let's kind of move a little bit away from Bartok, but I wanna stay within the magical sphere at least for one more discussion point. So in the train carriage, we have those little, are they bat things? The little green things, the dementors on the train. The green I wrote green dementors. The green dementors are capable of understanding English, question mark, and this is when they were welding the carriages together. I would like to discuss

38:56KT: thoughts. I I think we understand that, you know, there are some things that aren't grounded in reality, including the main storyline, but I would like to discuss this.

39:06Oti: I think it's more geared towards Rasputin having a mirror and seeing what's happening on the train and just instructing the green dementors to do to respond to their actions. Because Rasputin was having a was looking at what they were doing on the train. So just instruct, oh, they want to pull out the carriages, weld it.

39:28Elaine: Must have had, like, some shit ass deal with the devil if all he got for giving up his soul was some floating green bats that just show him what's happening with shit, and then they can meld together two fucking train cars, but they can't kill a fragile human being. That has to suck. I feel like he got ripped off there.

39:45Oti: Well, he gave his soul. Maybe his soul wasn't that great to start off with. That's a good point. You get what you pay for? Yeah. It's fair. Exactly.

39:52KT: Yeah. Not all souls are created equal, and that was very clear. Well, that that went nowhere. I'm going up, like a meaty fee physiological that's not even the fucking word. It worked. I said work. I'm very Tina Fey Liz Lemon right now. Just let me be. Let me be friends and lovers. While we're talking about the train, this was the first note that I made while we were watching this movie. Why didn't the grandma let Anastasia jump on first? Thoughts? Let's fight.

40:27Oti: Have Oh, I said she's a shit grandma to start off with. Yeah. Should no. Only she should even if she jumped fast to carry Anastasia on board Yeah. She should have jumped out the fast thing. Pull it pull Anastasia up. You could say that she was being held back, but, mate, I'd punch everyone around me and jump around holding her back? They don't know her.

40:27Elaine: And, also, I'm gonna casually throw out, if you're in the middle of a revolution, that's goal is to take down the aristocracy.

40:53Elaine: Maybe you shouldn't yell the fucking grand duchess's name loudly in the streets of St. Petersburg, because the grandma is all like, Anastasia. And it's like, what are you doing? You're just like, it's like she did everything to make it awful. I agree, she should have jumped off if that wasn't going to happen. And I'm sure at some point someone would have let her go. So even if she couldn't get out the second that Anastasia can't jump on the train, like, maybe the next town over, come back and try to find her. Like,

41:20Oti: right? Yeah. Don't look. Go all the way to France.

41:22Elaine: Yeah. Don't just get yeah. Be like, no. No. I'm in Paris. Well, she does have a Nat Claus. Maybe she'll find me one day. No. It made it made

41:31KT: no sense. She is in competition with grandma Rose in Titanic. There is a special place. There are two seats in Hades for these old women. Age age does not absolve you. I know, you know, in Shawshank, I'm not spoiling anything, but in Shawshank, when you get to a particular age, what is it? Compassionate? Or they let you leave if you're old enough? No. These women were fucking shit,

42:00KT: and they need to pay the price. I think part of the problem as well is this scene went on for longer than I thought it would. So it felt like there was ample opportunity for the grandma to help or or like Oti says, if she if you can't help her get on, then you jump off so you can struggle together. Yeah. Mhmm. Well, go and hug your grandmas because I'm sure they're not as bad.

42:24Elaine: Will say I always love that she goes by grandmama. Like, I don't to me, that is so extra.

42:30KT: Maybe that's like a privilege thing. Maybe that's like a royalty thing. Oh, maybe. Like, papa, grandmama. I'll make that fur make that fur sort of name. About they the Romanovs, I guess they're not talking about, like, the extended family. They'll just talking about the nuclear family. Right? Because she was alive. She she didn't have to go through the curse. Yeah. I guess not.

42:53Elaine: Which she was there for all of it, though. Sure. Wait. She was there for all of that. She witnessed that happen. She knows about the curse, and she does not she like, she could have tried to actively like like, there's a whole storyline where she tries to go and find Rasputin or the magical shit glow stick to try to stop the Romanov curse because she has this faith that her niece or whatever granddaughter person is out there. But no. What? Oh. Oh, okay. Sorry. If she sucks.

43:21KT: Oh. Just casually blowing holes in your favorite childhood movie. That's what I do.

43:27Elaine: It's okay. It's not like it was one of the few things that held near and dear to my heart. No. I never liked Grandma Ba, to be honest. She was the most boring out of all of it. Now I can see it's because she was completely useless and actively didn't do anything, except sing a song twice. The same one Yeah. To be clear.

43:44KT: The same one. She's just like a record tape. But yeah. Because she kept screaming her name. And, yeah, again, the scene just felt too long. They should have done, like, a cut like, a quick cut of the scene so we understand the tension and the desperation of her trying to save Anastasia. But she was literally like, okay. Bye.

44:06Elaine: Do svidaniya.

44:11Oti: Or at least make her faint or something. Respond to what's happening in front of her. That, oh, I can't get to her. Oh, no. And then she collapses. And then the next thing she realizes she's in Paris. That would have been better rather than just her looking at granddaughter lying on the ground. Yeah.

44:31Elaine: Did apparently like, she's apparently eight years old, and can we just talk about how she does not look she's an eight year old in the beginning I sequence of this thought she looks like she's at least, if we're being generous, 12, but 14, 15. She does not look like eight years old.

44:47KT: And I'm glad you brought this up, Elaine, because I was really struggling, especially ten years later, because Dimitri seemed like a whole man with a wife and a mortgage. Like and I was getting really I was getting really confused why he kept because even when they're on the train, he was sitting way too close to her. And I also didn't understand how old she was as well. And I I I was assuming she was maybe 18, but I didn't know how old Dimitri was. And I guess this is just

45:21KT: undoing all of my cinephile critic credits that I might have. But I didn't it took me a while to realize that he was the boy from the kitchen. Right? And I guess that would have connected the dots, and I would have realized that he was of age or they were of the same age. But he just came off as much older, and it just felt I was like, even when they I think it's when he was grabbing her off on the train,

45:48KT: and they were having a moment where it was a will they, won't they kiss moment. I was like, am I supposed to be shipping this, or am I supposed to be calling authorities? Like, I'm not it was very confusing to me. And even when they were dancing together, and then you have Vlad making the comment, you don't lead. Let him. Ugh.

46:10KT: The biggest eye roll in history and the biggest vomit in history. I was like, oh. Like, I get it was for the times, but I'm like, that sort of dialogue, I'm just like, come on, gah. They definitely animate everyone so they look oddly older than I think what their ages are supposed to be. Because there'll definitely be moments that I'm like, Anastasia looks like she's, like, 29.

46:30Elaine: Like, what's happening? And then her magic hair goes from being short to long to short to long. There's some miss Like, that's some magic. If you wanna go back into the magic talk, her hair makes no sense throughout the entire movie.

46:43KT: I'm glad you brought that up because I wrote that down as well. But I feel like she only had long hair when she was wearing those nice dresses.

46:49Elaine: It must be a a, like, Romanov button when you're royalty. You get to suddenly have beautiful long locks because you definitely were well fed throughout your entire life. So, you know, you're gonna be able to just have these beautiful, like, shining hair moments.

47:03KT: But In in Morocco and in Kenya, did you guys ever have well, obviously, Play-Doh is universally understood. But there was there was, like, a troll doll edition, and you could push the Play-Doh through, and the hair would come out. Oh

47:18Elaine: god. Yeah.

47:20KT: Nah. Never never hot dog. That took me back. Damn. Right? Maybe that's a Romanov button just pushing the Play-Doh out. Oti's like, what the fuck are you Westerners talking about?

47:32Elaine: Oh, no. Because now I'm imagining it, like, she has to cut it from her eyes because she hits the button, it just comes out everywhere. Like, maybe that's what happened to Rasputin with his hair. Like, he tried it and then it got broken. And then he just got stuck with whatever the hell is growing on his head.

47:46KT: It's the Coraline spiritual sequel.

47:49Elaine: Oh, God. No. But yeah, the age difference is very ambiguous, so I just pretend that Dimitri has just been aged by the happenings around him. I think everyone had to grow up quickly, so we'll just go with that and not consider if it's creepy or not. Ignorance is great. It's fine. But yeah, no, I mean, it's yeah. The animations sometimes don't actually match up. I don't know, for example, having a pink bat. Some of the stuff they chose stylistically

48:23Elaine: didn't quite make sense, though I did highly enjoy their CGI moments. Where were they? Well, whenever Oh, they actually, there you go. Oh, you're good. I don't know if it's CGI adjacent, whatever, when you have the chandelier fall and then the weird horse. They were trying to play with making it look kind of three d without it being a three d movie.

48:43Elaine: And every time, it felt a little awkward, but I was like, this is pretty cool. I feel like I'm about to die, which is what you want out of any kind of kids movie.

48:51KT: And also when they were doing shots of the train because I was wondering, is that what it looked like in the early nineties, or was that like, what what do they call it, remastered? Is that what it looked like back then?

48:51Elaine: That's what it looked like back then. Yeah.

48:51KT: Oh, that's pretty cutting edge.

48:51Elaine: Yeah. It's like, oh, this giant glowing eyed horse statue is

49:11Elaine: probably gonna murder everybody, and this is just gonna take a a route south. But it didn't because it's a happy movie about a happy topic. In real life, it was still happy. It's fine. I'm still triggered thinking about how they're actually dead. It's just such a bummer when you're a kid and you're like, oh, womp womp. There that there that goes.

49:31KT: It's like it's like one of those things where you read creepypastas, like the one about the Rugrats and it was all in Tommy's head. But the sad thing about Anastasia is it's not a creepypasta, and it's fucking real. It's fucking real. I also have a note here saying, who knew songs were used to share historical details before Lin-Manuel Miranda? Oh, yeah.

50:01Oti: I was like, oh, actually, they they quite they give a lot a lot of details. And usually, musicals, I'm I'm sort of guilty of this. I I sort of tune off. Oh, feel part in the pun. No. It's just a thing. It's it's a

50:18Oti: it's a thing that even as a child, I never really got into musicals. And every time a musical would come on, I'd just be like, ding ding. I just queued out, I zoomed out, and continued. But, yeah, it it really did play a big part in this. Because I feel like if I'd if I'd watched this movie multiple times, I would have learned something.

50:37KT: But not to the rapping pace of Hamilton, but there was definitely a lot of details that would divulge.

50:44Oti: And I'm like, if I watch this again, I'll probably learn something. But it's just sounding like words right now.

50:44Elaine: Yeah, I didn't even actively notice until two years ago that at the end of the movie, when Anastasia's sitting with her grandmama, and they're talking about the family and how they'd be happy they were there. And I never knew, I didn't know that they were talking about a dead family. I didn't know that

51:03Elaine: she just quickly accepted, Oh, I finally know who I am. Oh, my whole family's dead? Okay, well, guess I'm good. I just totally, I did not process that, and they did it so blah, like passed over, what's the word? Brushed They Yeah, it they kind of brushed it off gently of like, Well, she just figured out who she is, and her whole family's dead, but it's fine. That I, as an adult, didn't even notice it until the past couple of years.

51:28Elaine: So they definitely did a good job tiptoeing around it and then just leaving these little, little details, if you wanted to see the darker parts, I guess, the actual history.

51:39KT: Yeah, I guess it was definitely an experience to experience is what what I would say about Anastasia. But it really felt like, you know, like being your parent telling you something, but not telling you everything.

51:56Elaine: But you're just living in your blissful ignorance of what you've been told and not what's really behind the curtain. That was my entire childhood. Now that I think about it, they could have told me at any any point, and they didn't. I had to find out on my own.

52:09KT: That must have been very, like, worrisome for them because you're loving this movie so much while your parents are just sitting back being like, should we tell her? Probably not. She's really enjoying all of her merch and her her toy painting.

52:21Elaine: Yeah. That must have put them in a really difficult position. But I don't I mean, they could have tried to push another movie on me. I also loved Balto, but for some reason we never owned it, but I was obsessed with that movie. But they just were like, You know what? Of all the things our daughter could be obsessed with, how about a story about one of the more gruesome events of history,

52:42Elaine: a giant of people afresh in history. And we just kind of got out of the Cold War. That seems like an appropriate thing to really let her get into. And I guess there isn't a parenting book about how to let your child know that their little superhero was brutally murdered. And maybe the way they're portrayed wasn't accurate. Yeah. Therapy is still filled with that to this day for me. There's a lot I'm processing with that.

53:08KT: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. There's but, you know, enjoy what you enjoy despite all of despite all of my questionable notes that I wrote down while watching this. Apparently, a working title for it was The Music Box. Oh god. I'm glad they didn't do that. I think it's nice that they just had her name. Like, how you have, like, Mulan or Cinderella. Yeah. So it's kind of, like, at the forefront. But yeah, it was a journey to behold.

53:40KT: But I guess at the same time, going into this, I didn't really know a lot about Russian history. Going out of this, still don't know a lot about Russian history. I know too much, I feel like at this point.

53:51Elaine: Anastasia was actually 16 when all of this went down. So she was not eight, she was 16. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, you have to go find the history. It's definitely not something that you can play in schools and be like, You're gonna learn about this now. There's definitely a lot you have to dig, and that's why in college, I was like, I'm gonna learn everything I can about Russian history because this is already depressing to me, so I might as well know every single depressing facet about why my childhood was a lie.

54:21Elaine: And it's very fascinating. Russian history is incredibly weird, but it's, I don't know. Again, it's just kind of like, Oh yeah, let's boost up somebody who I don't know, they just avoid the whole revolution part, like we've said, and it's very, I don't know, interesting, timing interesting. Oh, well, now I know way too much about Russian history, and I have nowhere to do it but on a podcast

54:47Elaine: where I blab about it to you guys. So thank you for letting me have that outlet, because I don't get to talk about this with anybody else because no one cares. You're like, I do not care, Elaine. I am eating Cheetos. Let me be.

55:04KT: Well, I guess the solace that you can confide in is that as you know, even though there are qualms to have with Anastasia and it is a glazing of Russian history, it is nowhere near as problematic as Pocahontas, friends and lovers.

55:18Elaine: That does make me feel a little better, but also worse. Just sad that Yeah, I guess in terms of retelling, they could have done worse, but they also I mean, it's just like, they were like, Oh yeah, let's just focus on a bunch of rich white people and how sad they were. Again, isn't this exciting for everybody? So

55:40KT: We've never heard that story before, right? Yeah. And that's the way to understand the world through white people and their their feelings about other people's feelings. Well,

55:50KT: that's pretty much all I I had to cover today. Elaine, is there anything else you wanna add?

55:50Elaine: No. Yeah. That that was it. I love the the songs, again, are amazing. The French scene, just really quick, in France, that, like, opening scene, they I think I I forgot what it was, but they make, like, 20 different references

56:06Elaine: to either French historical people or just, like, other famous Europeans. So there's the Freudian slip. I don't know if you caught that. There's Yeah, saw that. Yeah. So there are all these little things. The animation is suddenly an impressionist painting. That's what the whole France setup is. And so I thought that was a really cool snippet. But yes, I've said my piece on Anastasia. I think I am okay. I am centered now.

56:30KT: Bartok, I just wanted to throw you off your shoulder. It's like you're Martha. Oti, anything?

56:40Oti: No. I I just think that they could have used there was a lot of moments I got frustrated, especially with Dimitri when it came to sort of trying to reunite Anastasia with the grandma. There was so there was, like, a lot of things she could he could have said to make it go quicker. Your daughter, your your granddaughter's there. You know? I there's this music box, like, but he just kept on going on and on about how, oh, you really need to see her. She is the one. She's a little house inside. Yeah. Anyway

57:10Oti: yeah. But I think it was it was a really enjoyable movie, and it sort of I understood how why they did it the way they did because the reality is is quite grim. Yeah. So yeah. I appreciated it.

57:26KT: Nice. Well, thank you. We take kindly to the For Your Reference and Angus Eye Tea kind around here. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have absolutely loved having you on, Elaine. And I I I didn't anticipate that I would poke holes in this movie. I guess I didn't know that until I started watching it. But, absolutely, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on to our podcast. We are going to finish off in a segment we call, For Your Reference, Elaine. So one or two TV shows or movies that you think people will enjoy

58:03KT: if they enjoyed Anastasia.

58:05Elaine: Yeah. So if you wanna keep up with your Russian fun, I'd recommend The Great on Hulu, and it does this thing. So it follows Catherine the Great's rise to power, but it is very irreverent. It is funny. They keep modern in there. They're constantly going like, Oh, fuck you. And then they're kind of doing weird hip hop dancing, but they've given it the flavor of old time dancing. It's

58:28Elaine: more of a It has more of that edge that we talked about that we wanted in Anastasia, but more following Catherine the Great, and I think it has Dakota Fanning and Nicholas Hoult in it. I highly enjoyed it, I binged the whole season. So if you need more Russian history, I'd head that way. And then I guess the only other one I really have would be Anna Karenina, if you want to kind of have a mind fuck, but just keep following

58:51Elaine: the Russia stuff. Keira Knightley running around mostly in a gown is kind of what you get. So if that's your vibe, go for it. Have a cup of tea. Watch people lose their minds.

58:51KT: I love that. You're like, you want Russian realness? Here, have it.

58:51Elaine: You know what's funny? When I so I was trying to, like, refresh myself. I Googled, oh, like movies about Russia. And you know what popped up? Air Bud. So there's a conspiracy for you. How is Air Bud related to Russia? Is Air Bud playing sports in Russia?

59:16Elaine: What's going on there? So I was very confused by that, and I don't know what that means. But you know what? I will recommend Air Bud. Fits in with the theme, wholesome, dogs, sports movie, Russia.

59:28KT: Words. Words. Words to your grandmama.

59:35Elaine: Your grandmama was so stupid that she babbered off.

59:43KT: Yikes. There are no grandmamas in our reference. Oh, actually, no. There is. But it's probably one of the best grandmamas that deserves all of the seats with robot Jesus. We will be referencing the 1998, not 2020 version of Mulan. Hell yeah. Hells fucking yeah. Shang on a mountain all night long, friends and lovers. But that is it. We have done it. We have achieved all we can achieve today, guys. All for you. Elaine, where can we find you on a week to week, day to day, or whenever you want us to find you basis?

60:20Elaine: Yeah. So there's obviously that webcam I do where I'm dressed up as Anastasia, but more importantly, I guess my podcast Angus Eye Tea. You can find me on any streaming platform and that's Angus like the cow, Eye like the body part and tea like the drink. I hypothetically have a website and it's www.angusit.com. It's kind of defunct, but if you wanna see something depressing to bring joy to yourself, go to that URL. But you can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Angus Eye Tea as well.

60:46KT: I'm working on a creepypasta about Elaine's website. It's If you listen to a show. Yeah. If you listen to a show, you'll understand what we are talking about. But because we don't understand anything we're talking about, we are going to end it for this week. So thank you so much guys, for tuning in, and we'll see you in another episode in either of our podcasts.

61:10Elaine: See you. Thanks for this journey to the past.