The Polygamist – The Joyce of Marriage

Full transcript of The Polygamist – The Joyce of Marriage.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, friends and lovers. And have we done a soap opera? Is this our first soap opera?

0:08Oti: Yeah?

0:10KT: Wow. I think it is, actually.

0:13Oti: Yeah.

0:14KT: Huh. We do it all, friends and lovers. Get you a podcast that will do The Odyssey one week and The Polygamist the next. Uh, grab a snack, friends and lovers. It is going to get tantalizing. Choose which wife's house you wanna listen at.

0:32Oti: Mm.

0:32KT: Mm. Heyyo, where you gonna be, Oti?

0:36Oti: Wife number one.

0:39KT: Okay. Well, it didn't work out so well, but I guess we'll see. Let's get on with the show Hey, friends and lovers, welcome back. Hey, friends and lovers. Hey, all the wives and lovers. I just needed to give some time for all of the lovers

0:59Oti: Mm.

1:00KT: If it's Jonasi, we've got a lot of lovers Yeah more than the Mormons, friends and lovers. Uh, welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You've got the first wife, KT.

1:11Oti: Mm-hmm, far second and third.

1:14KT: And then who are you, my love?

1:16Oti: Just, I'm a man.

1:22KT: And that goes great into the intro. It's a man's world of contradiction, manipulation, and copulation, ah. Get in the wife line from Joburg to Soweto with The Polygamist this week.

1:36Oti: Mm.

1:37KT: Ooh-hoo-hoo, what a sizzling time. 22 episodes, I believe.

1:43Oti: Yeah.

1:44KT: All right. Well, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, friends and lovers, we're going to get into our non-spoiler first impressions, but we will be, uh, talking about this show in detail.

1:55Oti: It takes skill to craft a character so deplorable you're practically begging for his comeuppance, only to realize you weren't ready when it came. Captivating, infuriating, and absolutely the kind of show that'll have you throwing things at the TV.

2:12KT: Is that a cultural thing or is that a everyone thing?

2:16Oti: That's a everyone thing.

2:18KT: A Waiting to Exhale thing? No?

2:22Oti: Not even. Too soon.

2:24KT: K.O. to Whitaker. The Polygamist is a sizzling series with many twists and turns to keep audiences engaged. Themes such as tradition versus settling, identity, and triumph were explored really well

2:39Oti: Nice

2:41KT: It's fucking great

2:43Oti: Mm.

2:45KT: There's a epidemic, friends and lovers, not necessarily. There's a lot of corporate tech bro greed that's going on right now, friends and lovers, and that equals shows being dumbed down, shows being watered down. I don't even mean genre-wise. Like, shows are over-explaining. Oti, did you. I thought you said Fightland. Sorry.

3:08Oti: I

3:10KT: felt something in my spirits.

3:12Oti: I need, I need 50 to do something different that doesn't involve drugs.

3:15KT: No, because there was even a lyric, there was even a lyric in the opening song saying, "Same game, but now it's boxing," or some shit like that. Like, it was in the lyrics.

3:23Oti: Same game, but now w- we're just waiting for ballerina drug dealers. It's endless. The list is endless.

3:29KT: The pinnox of it all.

3:31Oti: Mm-hmm.

3:31KT: but yeah, like unfortunately, a lot of shows now, even just any type of show you try to watch, they're over-explaining the plot because they expect you to be on your phones, right? The Polygamist will have you on your phones texting all your wives— All your side pieces, and telling them to hold off on those social media posts, friends and lovers. But this was such a great time. Like genre, it's a lot of fun just to be able to enjoy, but also just the way it was written was so mu— Like, this would be a great And friends and lovers, I am reading again. Yes, you know about it because I talk about it more than I actually be reading. why are you laughing?

4:14Oti: Well, I, am I not allowed to laugh? Is this space not safe enough for a man to laugh?

4:21KT: Yes, but did you not read my intro of It's A Man's World: A Contradiction? Because how much have you read, sir?

4:27Oti: Excuse. Are you, are you, are you book shaming me?

4:30KT: You just book shamed me. See, friends and lovers, if you have more of a toxic relationship, you might fight about other shit. We fight about reading and Kindles apparently. but man, wow, I, I am looking forward to reading the book, and you'll all hear about it when I do get to The Polygamist. But it was so great. Like, it was such a great experience, and it's very rare. Like obviously, La Casa de Papel, I'm pretty sure there's been other event watchings, but this was if you weren't watching it, you were watching it so you could t- talk about and understand what everyone else was talking about.

5:10Oti: Mm. water cooler sh- uh, not water coolers anymore, hey.

5:15KT: Who's cooling your waters, Oti? Well, let's, let's get into your quote Uh, Jonasi

5:24Oti: Mm.

5:25KT: What did you say? It, it takes skill to write a deplorable character like that?

5:29Oti: Yeah.

5:29KT: I don't think so. I think that's a garden variety man, isn't it?

5:33Oti: I don't think it, it- you'd get the garden variety hateable person in the show, you wouldn't really You don't care. You're like, "Ugh, this fucking ass. Anything can happen to him."

5:45KT: I'm saying, I'm saying there are trifling-ass men on both sides of my family, and I would f— I would suppose that you might have trifling-ass men on both sides of your family. So d- so I do agree that he's very deplorable, but yes, it does take skill to write a story, but I feel like Jonasi falls off the deadbeat man tree like— Like, I don't think it's hard to come by a man like Jonasi. That's why you have to, that's why you have to lock the doors, friends and lovers. It's a bit scary from what I understand out there. And

6:21Oti: no one stop him.

6:23KT: Yeah, 'cause even that man, he, he was never for you. If you're on the street, he's for the streets. He's not for you.

6:29Oti: Ah.

6:30KT: Tell me about him.

6:31Oti: Mm. Jonasi. Eh. I do not. Like, it was very interesting how they told the story of him because we also get to see how he is with Essie. '

6:45KT: Cause it, it was kind of through all four, four wives, four women's eyes.

6:50Oti: Yeah. Until. Because y- you don't understand why he moves the way he does, and seeing how he came up to be— Mm and why, you know, the, the, the root connection of I was struggling, you know, Essie paid my stuff so I could go to college, but. Or uni, but still have the audacity to, to, to ghost her for two years, come back married.

7:26KT: It's the audacity. But it's so interesting because we're introduced. And also, you know, we always say if the story can't be told in a linear fashion, then it's not necessarily interesting. I appreciated the twists and turns 'cause it didn't take away from what was already, what was already paved in front of us, right? Usually twists and turns are for misdirects and that sort of thing. This was just more juicy muy caliente wives that you're hiding. But it was very interesting 'cause we were introduced to Joyce, who's a down-ass bitch.

7:59Oti: Mm.

8:00KT: Complimentary. And then you find out that actually she wasn't the ride or die down-ass bitch. It was actually Essie.

8:07Oti: Yeah.

8:08KT: Remember how you were talking about the way Mo'Nique was treated in The Parkers? Do you think Essie got— God,

8:14Oti: no, because Essie chose to be that. Essie chose to, to want— A crumb of

8:20KT: love

8:20Oti: to want to still be in Soweto, which they refer to it as their ghetto, where it's like, "I will be there. I don't need to move because this is who I am. As long as I'm getting my money, I'm cool here. I don't need a mansion."

8:34KT: Jonasi was a stray dog, though. Like, he was a dog. Like, like Essie kept the door open because he came and went as he pleased.

8:43Oti: But for the longest—

8:43KT: But you could never keep him there

8:45Oti: but for the longest time we were wondering why, what the relationship was because once we saw Jonasi go to that house, I was like, "Surely not. You cannot do this to Magesh again," because we're introduced to Magesh when i- sh- he's with Matipa.

9:03KT: Yeah.

9:03Oti: And Jonasi just slides in, and you're like, how do you do that to your brother?

9:09KT: Yeah.

9:10Oti: How many women are there? Just go find someone.

9:14KT: Yeah.

9:14Oti: Doesn't matter even if you're cheating, just go elsewhere.

9:18KT: It's a chase, bro.

9:19Oti: So for him to go to Essie, like I feel like we've jumped so many, like—

9:25KT: No, but technically she is the first wife, so I'm cool to go there

9:29Oti: to go to the house, and I was like, "Surely no fucking way."

9:32KT: But that looked like a good meal. Like Essie can throw down.

9:35Oti: And—

9:36KT: That chicken

9:36Oti: up until that point, we'd never seen Essie smile, laugh, anything. She was always just—

9:42KT: I don't. Can I just say I don't like women like that. When people talk about male-centered women, that was Essie. She was a fucking pick me, and I'm not for women like that. Gross.

9:52Oti: She was happy. She. I was like, "What is this?"

9:56KT: Even the fact to like sacrifice her daughter's sense of self—

9:59Oti: Mm

10:00KT: just so you can have a crumb of a whiff of a man, embarrassing.

10:05Oti: Yeah.

10:07KT: Like how low is you. Like obviously we're talking about fictional characters, but how low is your self-esteem? That's sad. Sara,

10:13Oti: they don't deserve that. I- in all, all that mess, it's the kids— Don't post

10:17KT: that

10:17Oti: it's the kids that, yeah, it's the kids that get hurt, especially Sara. Like— Everything she goes through to try and internalize and try and figure out what she needs to do to get Jonasi's attention.

10:34KT: Yeah. '

10:35Oti: Cause that's all she wants. Yeah. Just to be recognized and just to be, "You know what? You're my kid." Just that.

10:41KT: And she was waiting— Thinking that— 'cause they were gonna

10:45Oti: have a daddy-daughter, um, lunch. Yeah, on a, on a birthday. Yeah. Or get—

10:48KT: And I think that was the first time we saw a white person, and he was the waiter.

10:52Oti: Right.

10:56KT: For a South African show, that's pretty cool.

10:58Oti: Oh. But—

11:00KT: I didn't, I, yeah, I didn't care for Essie. Like, 'cause at the end of the day, you're grown.

11:06Oti: Mm.

11:06KT: Like, even, what's my, what's my main man? Freedom.

11:09Oti: Mm.

11:11KT: Right?

11:11Oti: He's the, he, he is the most solid person in that show.

11:13KT: No, but he saw the way his mom would be, like, fucking Bella in Twilight, writhing in bed, crying, can't even fucking function because Edward or Jonasi— Jonasi Cullen is gone, right? Like, she couldn't function, and Freedom had to fend for himself, and he saw that. Embarrassing, really.

11:35Oti: Yeah. Uh, Freedom and Sara, uh—

11:37KT: Once you involve kids, whatever shit you had, whether it's self-esteem, confidence, like you, you sacrificing everything for a man, embarrassing. Like, you've got children now

11:49Oti: And to make You know what? The most cruel thing is to, to agree to be a secret for that long to play pretend. Ma- take Magesh's whole life away to play this pretend husband.

12:05KT: We'll come to Magesh in a second, but you know what this song is? This song is that Little Mix one with Jason Derulo doing back flips off the couch. Secret Love Song. well let's talk about Magesh because they come hand-in-hand with Essie. He was a pussy though. Yeah. And wasn't Magesh the older brother?

12:22Oti: Yeah. '

12:23KT: Cause I was like, you start to feel sorry for him, and then you hear Jonasi, like, literal- like, verbally grab Magesh by the balls, and I'm like, "Bro, get up. No wonder you can't fucking help the women. You can't even help yourself." Yeah, '

12:39Oti: cause he's thinking, "Oh, he's the source of my money. I don't wanna lose my comfortability. I will play along."

12:47KT: There was something about Jonasi. He just thought he was better than everyone. He felt like he upgraded from Essie. He felt like he was better than his brother because he pulled them out of the mud, so to say

13:01Oti: Yeah. But he's. And to realize, yeah, a- and that's the thing, right, Jonasi has used so many of these people, you know, Joyce's father's connection to get into the industry. Right. But you'd think that the way everyone gravitates and falls over for him—

13:26KT: Yeah

13:27Oti: like there's this untouchable force around.

13:31KT: But he exists because people are weaker—

13:35Oti: Mm

13:35KT: and they allow themselves to be used and controlled by him. Because up until we got to Lindani, up until we got to, we're not gonna get too graphic, friends and lovers, but up until we got to physical assault and him coercing into sex, until we got to that point, a lot of the, a lot of the interaction, relationships, and marriages that Jonasi had, they were all voluntary. Like, and I think until we got to that point in the series, it's like, mm, like the, like these women should be able to hold themself up as well, right? Mm. Until it got, until it got a bit, you know. And I think from a story point of view, I feel like a man like Jonasi probably would've been way more abusive from the start, but from a story point of view, like, it kind of makes sense to not focus on that at the start. The

14:31Oti: best lover number one.

14:33KT: Right? Matipa, I thought she was quite interesting as a character. she's, you know, the, the quote-unquote "homewrecker" sort of character, but you know, she's out getting hers.

14:47Oti: Getting hers, but, and that's the thing, she, the same way you got Jonasi is the same way you're gonna lose him. She thought she had Jonasi on lock.

15:00KT: Like her, she's got her Venus pussy trap.

15:02Oti: Yeah.

15:03KT: Yeah.

15:03Oti: Like, "Oh, now you're my man," like—

15:06KT: Yeah, not him coming over and saying, "That mouth will still work, no?"

15:10Oti: Oh, no, no,

15:10KT: no, no. He got off on knowing the mom was right there, though.

15:16Oti: Aiya. There's some things I'd forgotten completely. It's— Ah.

15:24KT: You're flabbergasted.

15:26Oti: He didn't even care that Matipa had undergone, you know, she's just given birth. He don't even go because, "Oh, I need to see my twins." Fuck that shit.

15:36KT: He did the same s- thing to Joyce.

15:37Oti: Yeah, I need

15:38KT: to go get mine. When we had that baby, like the baby in, um, Tariq's, uh. Yaz. Is it Yaz from Power?

15:44Oti: Yeah.

15:44KT: That we never saw. They had a baby that we never saw in this show as well, but he dipped out as well.

15:50Oti: He did. He did.

15:53KT: Lindani, I didn't care for. She was literally still in high school, but I do appreciate that I would hope it would open conversation.

16:01Oti: Mm.

16:03KT: No?

16:04Oti: Yeah, but, ugh ' Cause I, when you saw, when you. We were watching this and Jonasi walked into the house and saw Lindani dancing, and—

16:14KT: I saw it immediately

16:15Oti: I didn't think anything of it. But

16:16KT: do you see why?

16:18Oti: Mm.

16:19KT: But that's why I'm saying I don't think it's hard to, I don't think it's hard to imagine a character like Jonasi. And h— I, I think even most recently in the Odyssey episode, I am so conscious of young women and not being able to be free and safe in this The world isn't necessarily gross, there's just a lot of gross men out there. So yeah, as soon as I, I just, I, I clocked it immediately, and I was like, "I don't like this." And you're like, "What are you talking about?" And then unfortunately Oti says I always accidentally end up seeing spoilers. I saw that there were four wives when I was reading the synopsis— Okay of the book, and I told you there's still another one. And you're like, "What?" I was like, "There's still another one." And when I saw that, I was like, "It's Lindani."

17:11Oti: Mm. I, I, I didn't care for that part of the story. I, and I feel like—

17:17KT: But it's important to be in there

17:19Oti: It is important to be there, and that goes to t- show the sort of structure Jonasi's setting, and the sort of example Jonasi's setting for the household, because he's, from Sara's perspective, he thinks, "Oh, if I'm sexual, then you would love me and you would put me on a pedestal. You, that's the only way you can, I can get your attention."

17:43KT: The—

17:44Oti: Because she tries to kiss Magesh thinking that's the only way.

17:47KT: That's so sad.

17:48Oti: And then when you look at Menzi, Menzi's just turning into another Jonasi— Ugh 'cause he's also— No,

17:55KT: he doesn't have that player player

17:57Oti: He doesn't have the, uh—

17:58KT: He's just a fucking incel

17:59Oti: He doesn't have that player player. He's an i- he—

18:02KT: I like you, kiss me

18:04Oti: Oh, what do you mean? I have money. Kiss me.

18:06KT: Ew.

18:08Oti: Like, mm, he's. I didn't like him at the start 'cause you could tell how he, he moved. He he was giving Lindani like, you can tell there's a crush and then there's, there's

18:21KT: out— Obsession.

18:23Oti: Yeah.

18:24KT: I think that's his favorite movie, the One Wish Willow.

18:27Oti: Oh, yeah. He would never even care. He wouldn't even care about turning her back or like, yeah, that.

18:33KT: Yeah.

18:34Oti: Mm.

18:35KT: Be my Lindani. Dickhead man. But you notice how all the men are shit in this? That's why I love— That's why

18:43Oti: he's Freedom

18:45KT: Yes.

18:45Oti: Mm.

18:46KT: Maybe Scar does. Break free

18:48Oti: from the shackles of— shitty men. That's why he's called Freedom.

18:52KT: But he, he got scars himself.

18:54Oti: Yeah. You can't, you can't run away from that.

18:57KT: Even when he said to Menzi, "Throw the brick," and Menzi was gonna throw it, it's like, ah, different, like these are different, uh, young men that are being, uh, brought up in this world, but it's also, that's why we say lens is very important, friends and lovers, and that's why I was like, I love that this was written by women. And even, even the varying, uh, sort of aspects, 'cause Joyce kinda didn't give a fuck either until I guess wine is what unites bitches. Be sipping. Oh, that was a test and you didn't laugh.

19:30Oti: Yeah.

19:31KT: But they had that moment at the party where they were, you know, bonding. So—

19:38Oti: But, uh, a- and here's the thing, though. Why did, for someone like Joyce—

19:44KT: Yeah

19:45Oti: there's only so many things I thought she'd let Jonasi get away with. I can get the, oh, I need my social media brand. I need that, I need to keep up appearances. You owe me this.

19:59KT: Okay.

20:00Oti: But the level of things that she had to endure I, I don't even know. I would have walked out ages ago

20:08KT: But I, you know what I really liked and I thought was interesting and I can't wait to, can't wait to read the book is 'cause Joyce was presented with a conundrum. 'Cause what do you do? Divorce him and then you get nothing? Understanding the cultural ties, uh, you know, a- as much as I can understand from the outside in South Africa, it is very patriarchal. Not just patriarchal in a, a Western sense, but a lot of finances, a lot of property is tied to Jonasi, right? I would hope, I would hope that women and wives are recognized the same way with property, but you never know.

20:57Oti: But th- this again, this is the problem with, with wives in these shows, though.

21:01KT: Hey, yeah, yeah, yeah. Watch out.

21:03Oti: Even Tasha.

21:04KT: Hey, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You better leave

21:07Oti: him before he runs. Tasha says 50/50, but nothing's 50/50 there. She's not been saving nothing. Hey. So to the point where she's trying to get away with Sean, and there's nothing to go away with. What do you, what do you mean Big Dog and you have nothing?

21:24KT: I know you're not doing this

21:26Oti: No, I'm just saying

21:27KT: I know you're not doing this on the men are shit polygamist episode The lesser of your crimes would be being a polygamist

21:37Oti: Oh

21:42KT: Really?

21:43Oti: Uh, i- it's just a question

21:44KT: We have Jonasi that beat the shit out of Matipa to the fact that she had to leave her babies behind. You have Jonasi when Lindani is effectively miscarrying. As far as we can understand, he's the one that forced that abortion, and you wanna say, "Bitches ain't shit." I didn't say bitches ain't shit Well, there, there is a king bitch, and he ain't shit actually Maury, you are the king bitch. Excuse me. You're really talking about wives, and we have a whole-ass Jonasi here? We have Menzi, who's a fucking incel. Really? And we have Magesh who let this abuse go on for years. Really? Are we really doing this, sir?

22:34Oti: We're covering the show from all angles.

22:37KT: Yeah, but what angle are you bringing? Again, again, friends and lovers, AI transcripts. Christopher Nolan knows women more than Oti does And understands feminine rage more than Oti does

22:53Oti: Seems I'm getting one now Anyway

22:57KT: Friends and lovers Oti is lucky because we are pre-recording these, so by the time these episodes come out, the first, second, and third wife won't be able to say anything. Wow.

23:12Oti: Ah. Back to the show, though.

23:16KT: You've been leaning on your AI wife for too long, eh? You'll be the digital polygamists.

23:22Oti: It was a sad scene, Mpumi walk away from Oh, Ma— Matipa walk away from—

23:29KT: Her babies uh,

23:30Oti: her babies. But even when she came back and the babies didn't recognize her I thought those, it was very sad, 'cause you could tell years, years was it? Years in between Mm. But she needed to break away from that, otherwise there was only o- one way that w- w- would have

23:51KT: ended. Yeah.

23:52Oti: And then we get. And this is the thing with Jonasi, right? He—

23:57KT: Oh, finally we're back on track, friends and lovers

23:59Oti: he thought nothing. He. I don't even know what kind of man he is because Joyce tries to kill him with a gun. And he

24:09KT: thought she was trying to kill herself. Yeah.

24:13Oti: He's—

24:13KT: In what world?

24:15Oti: But it was, because in what world? He cannot even comprehend.

24:18KT: Yeah. He's just like, "Bitch is crazy."

24:21Oti: Yeah doing crazy. He cannot comprehend that gun was being pointed at me, like, no, you want to kill yourself.

24:26KT: Because a w- 'cause she's a woman. I think if a man had a gun pointed at him, he would understand the threat of it.

24:34Oti: That—

24:34KT: How did you feel when he shook Menzi to his core?

24:37Oti: Oh, I, I, I loved those scenes.

24:40KT: Right?

24:41Oti: I wanted M- like—

24:42KT: He was like a cousin, right? Yeah. And he's like a little cousin, it's like, that's what you fucking get

24:48Oti: That's what you. I loved that for Menzi.

24:50KT: Get him again.

24:51Oti: Mm. I think that's the one thing Jonasi did right in this show. 'Cause Menzi was a bitch from the get-go. Sorry, I could not stand him. I think what we a— You

25:01KT: could tell

25:01Oti: I think what— There was an insidiousness with him

25:04KT: I think what we allow speaks to our shared traumas. Because we seem to be okay. But he was acting up, for sure. Mm.

25:12Oti: Mm.

25:12KT: Absolutely. Um, but going back to about Joyce and the gun, he thought that was a cute little, like, like she had a fucking sling and arrow or some shit.

25:21Oti: Oh, this depressed lady. Oh, no.

25:23KT: Yeah. Oh my God, and he had Lindani in the bathtub.

25:28Oti: Oh, yeah

25:29KT: It's not as fun when you have to examine your fellow brethren, hey?

25:35Oti: So to have, to. The disrespect has to be to a degree where you bring your supposed You groomed

25:46KT: Yeah a

25:48Oti: groomed girl into your house.

25:50KT: But it's also you, like, that's what I don't get, like you saw her grow up, unless that's part of the disgusting— Right? Like— perversion

25:58Oti: Lindani m— Lindani's mom said pretty much the same thing.

26:01KT: Yeah. Literally— She's like your— with your daughter.

26:03Oti: Yeah Like how do you even differentiate the two?

26:10KT: coursework

26:12Oti: Nah, man. Mm-mm. That's some Woody Allen bullshit right there. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.

26:17KT: Yeah, absolutely. Mm. if you, if you need to talk about a female character, here's one I didn't care for, Mpumi.

26:27Oti: Oh, yeah.

26:29KT: I just don't like judginess. I don't like bitchiness, especially in women, and she was so self-righteous.

26:38Oti: She's not a girl's girl, is she?

26:40KT: Neither are you. You've got a whole Rolodex of, um, TV wives that you feel like— Ah being a stay-at-home mom isn't shared labor 'Cause you said she wasn't 50/50

26:54Oti: No, I said she thought she was 50/50, but she wasn't banking nothing

26:58KT: Why, why isn't her staying at home and looking after the kids 50/50?

27:03Oti: No, it's 50/50. No, I'm not— How? I'm not disagreeing that it's 50/50. I'm saying to her mind it's 50/50, but what happens when the man walks away? Ghost was walking away— No, but Ghost, Ghost was— then that's when Tasha was starting to worry she had zero in her account. Stash that shit away f- look— She stashed it in Sean's boxes Wasn't big enough because he, he, he fled very quickly. His life did, but anyway.

27:37KT: Damn, dog.

27:38Oti: Back to this, so. M— Mpumi, like I can get you're grieved and you can understand, like you loved your boyfriend, I can't even remember his name at this point.

27:52KT: Who cares?

27:53Oti: And Q.

27:55KT: Oh, okay.

27:57Oti: You love Q so much.

27:59KT: But I feel like she's one of those, like, people, she's like one of those women that, like, like obviously she didn't want that to happen to her, but she gonna milk it.

28:12Oti: Mm.

28:13KT: I'm so perfect, I'm an angel, and you cheated on me, and this is my life's work now.

28:18Oti: Okay, a- and I get all that. Once all the chips have fallen, everything's, you know, Jonasi is dead. Sara comes and reaches out and explains, bares her heart. I was fucked up. I was trying to get all this attention. I felt like I needed to, you know?

28:42KT: Mm-hmm.

28:42Oti: This was my call-out. This, I'm sorry I hurt you, but. And Mpumi was having none of it.

28:49KT: Yeah.

28:51Oti: I'm like, at what point, like—

28:52KT: It's very holier than thou.

28:53Oti: Mm.

28:55KT: And it's like, yeah, Sara had a much harder life than you did. She couldn't even claim her dad.

29:01Oti: Yeah. It's easy for you to be— And you're in your rich ass house judging, your rich house mansion—

29:06KT: Yeah

29:07Oti: judging everyone else beneath you, 'cause even before that- 'Cause

29:11KT: how are you gonna be a, um, psychologist mental health person—

29:14Oti: Right? When you can't even check yourself

29:16KT: unless you're gonna, your clients are uppity people. Mm. Unless you're gonna, your client is Tony Soprano's

29:23Oti: Bruh. Sh- 'cause even before the whole incident with Q and Sara, they tr- she treated Sara as if she was nothing.

29:32KT: Yeah.

29:33Oti: Sara was just there to hang around and get off the scr- get the scraps.

29:36KT: Like, "You can have my hand-me-downs."

29:37Oti: Yeah.

29:38KT: Yeah.

29:39Oti: And then. Nah, man, I can't. '

29:41KT: Cause, like, when Sara took the phone, I was like, "Oh, come on. They probably already see you as the poor cousin or, you know, like, et cetera." But then the more we learned, I was like, "Fucking take it again." Take

29:52Oti: it all. I

29:52KT: was like, "Take more."

29:53Oti: Ta- yeah. Carry the TV. I don't know.

29:58KT: Take it all. I don't think, I don't think wealth goes well. Like, there are some life lessons you just don't learn. Looking at Menzi and Mpumi, like— No, no,

30:05Oti: Menzi is the poster child of be rich and you get a kid like Menzi. Ugh. Nah, man.

30:10KT: Ephialtes motherfucker.

30:13Oti: I don't know why he bothered me, man. Jeez.

30:17KT: Disgusting.

30:18Oti: Yeah.

30:19KT: Yeah. Just out here trying to kiss. Nah, man.

30:23Oti: And now he thinks he's won at the end of the episode when he's fucking Lindani. I'm like, "Bruh."

30:28KT: Gross.

30:30Oti: Nah, man.

30:31KT: Bro, why was your heart quivering? You never even had her. Like, when you

30:37Oti: Like, bro. Oh, the entitlement of him.

30:41KT: Yeah. It's gross, bro.

30:45Oti: But that was funny walking in on Z. Okay, funny from a perspective of Menzi's reaction and not what was happening.

30:51KT: Yeah.

30:51Oti: Yeah. '

30:52KT: Cause you think'Cause then you're not even a nice guy, are you?

30:56Oti: Mm-mm.

30:57KT: You're just waiting around for a sniff. Gross. Anything else, my love?

31:03Oti: I, I just To take out Jonasi the way Joyce did was something else. AIDS, HIV, I j- bruh. I—

31:19KT: Actually, actually, yeah

31:22Oti: like- '

31:22KT: Cause when she, 'cause that was such a random scene, like her getting locked up.

31:27Oti: Yeah.

31:28KT: Um, but then obviously it came through to the end. I thought it was one of Matipa's friends. Like, th— I was not paying attention to that lady in that one scene. Me

31:36Oti: too.

31:37KT: What a, how do you feel about that? Or can it, can it just be ridiculous hijinks, or is it like, this is too deep to play around with in such a silly show?

31:48Oti: Yeah, I thought it's just too, too, too, too deep to play with, especially when you know. I don't know. Like, I can't disassociate HIV, AIDS, and the, and the the impact it has on sort of the communities that can't afford medication and all that. You know, not everyone has Magic Johnson money. So I don't know, man. I was like, "Bruh, mm, I don't play with that."

32:16KT: Fair. Yeah.

32:17Oti: I, I c- jeez.

32:19KT: But they, they didn't linger on

32:20Oti: it really. I was like— They just skipped through it "Get that gun and just shoot Jonasi and be done with it." Like, what are we doing here?

32:25KT: No, die slow. Isn't that what Tupac said? Dude- "Die slow, motherfucker"

32:30Oti: do kneecaps or something. Do a toe a day. I don't know. Yeah.

32:39KT: No. Said, "Fu- fuck Jonasi as a record label, as a motherfucker establishment." Also, if you're following the Tupac trial, reach out, friends and lovers. but yeah, what a series. Really enjoyed it. please carve out a, a section of the website, Oti, so I can have my little, my little book clubs on there once I get to it.

32:59Oti: Mm.

32:59KT: yeah, I, you are absolutely right, and I will lean on you in regards to the severity of it weighing on such a ridiculous conclusion to the show. but putting it at the end kind of. I think if they put it, like, halfway in, then we have to live with that consequence. but it was kind of like a, like a little thing at the end. Yeah.

33:20Oti: Oh, a- and one thing, like, w- the show is great, but 22 episodes, I don't think it needed to be, because between 18 and 22, there was just, it felt like—

33:31KT: But it could still be 20 episodes

33:33Oti: yeah, yeah, sh- maybe even less It wasn't

33:34KT: really until the end where it dragged

33:36Oti: out. Yeah, yeah. I, I felt the pacing was a bit off in that where it could've just been tighter and shorter.

33:41KT: Or I could watch Menzi die slowly for 22 episodes.

33:46Oti: Oh, damn, man

33:50KT: Kidding right

33:51Oti: Kidding right

33:53KT: Wonder Years

33:54Oti: Mm-mm

33:55KT: Friends and lovers. Ooh-hoo-hoo. Thank you, friends and lovers, for joining us another week in the For Your Reference podcast. Uh, tell us how the future is. Uh, do you think the. I don't know, will we have any m- more big movie news? We had the casting of Storm. Oh. Maya Boyd. Yeah. Samara Weaving is playing some blonde lady. Sorry, I didn't know what the character's called. Your Indian obsession is gonna be Rogue.

34:22Oti: Yeah.

34:23KT: So peeps are coming out in full force. Peeps

34:26Oti: are coming out.

34:29KT: Uh, ooh-hoo-hoo. Thank you, friends and lovers, for joining us another week in the For Your Reference podcast. Uh, we're gonna finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference. Oti?

34:40Oti: Oh, in the realm of ridiculousness but in this damn reality, I wanna recommend Young, Famous & African. You get your ridiculous characters in there.

34:52KT: I think this show is better than that reality show, though.

34:56Oti: Mm. What do you mean?

34:59KT: What— Like, it's a reality show so they're not the same format, but I enjoyed The Polygamist over the meandering honor of Like, there was some meandering moments in Young, Famous & African.

35:09Oti: I'm not saying this is better or

35:13KT: w— I'm not comparing— Hey, I'm a critic. Can I critique your recommendation?

35:16Oti: Apples and oranges, darling.

35:18KT: Yeah, fair. Well, because I love you, friends and lovers, and I actually want you to enjoy your time, Why Women Kill.

35:25Oti: Oh.

35:26KT: Yeah.

35:27Oti: Yeah.

35:28KT: See, that's that feminine rage that you accused me of.

35:34Oti: Okay. With your an- ani energy. All right.

35:37KT: Or maybe I should recommend Misery, friends and lovers. Let's hope Oti is kind to me in these next couple of weeks.

35:45Oti: Hey.

35:49KT: That's a Menzi ass laugh. That's an obsession ass laugh.

35:54Oti: Oh, Menzi laugh is something.

35:58KT: It's you.

35:59Oti: Mm-mm.

36:00KT: Uh, for more of Oti's, uh, Menzi musings, on Twitter and Instagram, we're @foryourrefpod.

36:06Oti: Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

36:09KT: We're also on, uh, Nolan and Oti Women Love Womxn's podcast if you'd like to leave a rating and review. And we'll see you guys next time.

36:20Oti: Get your money.

36:22KT: Hey, dirty.