Succession – Wambsgans Thank You Ma’am

Full transcript of Succession – Wambsgans Thank You Ma’am.

0:00KT: Happy 2022, friends and lovers. Oh,

0:04KT: can you stay my lover Oti? Yeah. But we have another friend and lover in a patron alert Oti.

0:12Oti: Mhmm.

0:15KT: I don't occupy the dance hall, but I do enjoy it. Shout outs love and splooshies to Sam T. Thank you for joining our la la la long inner circle. Although he has been a low key hero supporting our podcast for a long time already. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. And now to some less functional, not as lovely, but as many daddies get on with the show. Hey, friends, and never to take the throne, lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. It's your host, KT.

0:15Oti: And Oti.

1:15KT: Set sail and greet Admiral Grope Boat by showing the collective leg to save the formidable media dinosaur. Band together for a daddy showdown with Succession season three this motherfucking week. Nice. You've been fucking on Oti, but I think it's time to fuck off. Wow. Are you ready?

1:15Oti: As I'll ever be.

1:15KT: Welcome, welcome, friends and lovers. For those that have been following our podcast, this time two years ago at the start of 2020, for those that are auspicious or otherwise, we covered season one and season two of Succession.

1:56KT: So it's actually been two years since we've covered it, and I'm very excited to talk about this show. I I don't know how and how but there has been a lot of pickup in popularity, obviously because of the quality, probably because of Pamela's paninis as well. But so much has happened in this show. So strap in friends and lovers, strap on because you're definitely nasty if you're listening to this show. Wow, this is a lot. This is a lot. We've talked about, you know, the casting, Jesse Armstrong,

2:28KT: we forever sploosh and Paul Bettany ourselves at his altar. But a lot has happened in this show. We watched the first two seasons leading up to season three, which I think was really good because it really refreshed a lot of, I guess, the origin stories for a lot of the characters, Rome in particular. And there are a lot of themes and, you know, character mingling that we didn't necessarily get to cover in the first offering of season one and season two. We are going to focus more specifically in season three. Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, otherwise,

3:04KT: what are you? Some kind of sicko? So I guess let's just recap at the end of season two, we have, you know, a challenging, essentially. You know, Logan says to Kendall very pointedly, You're not a killer. But don't push me. Yeah, because revenge is the sweetest joy next to getting pussy.

3:28Oti: Are you son? Scared of pussy?

3:33KT: We're not gonna get very far, friends and lovers. So essentially, we have not not so much fun, but definitely white ditty party on the yacht. And we have Tom eating Logan's chicken. We have Logan telling Kendall, you know, you were primed for this. On paper, you were primed for this, but you fumbled it and you fucked it up. You're not a killer. You're never going to get there, son. Take the blow for everyone on the boat and off board otherwise.

4:04KT: And then we see Kendall drop the bomb, which was your glorious moment. It was. It was definitely you were you were definitely in the l to the o g camps with Kendall.

4:16Oti: Because everything that we saw from season one was leading up to this point from a Kendall perspective?

4:23KT: Well, I think Kendall will definitely be the first character that we talk about. So let's just sit on it for a moment. So we'll get to Kendall. We'll definitely get to Kendall, but I guess just framing the end of season two. And I guess I didn't pick this up when we were watching it for the first time because as we've mentioned, I'm dumb, but I'm smart. Like, it takes me a lot of time to understand the setup and characters. I had forgotten that Greg was the one that gave the pertinent information that bolstered,

4:52KT: I guess, that founded or not confidence that Kendall had to go against his father. I think the first time I had watched it, I thought he was just trying to challenge his dad cause like Marcia said very poignantly to Shiv, you know, you had a playground and you thought it was the whole world. So I thought it was just Kendall trying to play with his daddy, right? So but he actually had Greg's papers so that was a legitimate threat

5:16KT: that he had. So that that's how we ended season two, and it was so muy caliente. And we were waiting, waiting, waiting for Succession to come back, which, you know, we watched a lot of stuff, but we were always, you know, keeping a bookmark for this show. So how do you feel generally about the season? And as promised, Kendall will be the first character we go through. But how did you feel just generally because, you know, I I likened

5:42KT: Succession as a show, season one and season two, as a new sex position. And I guess as all good sex positions, the the the first, second time, you're just trying to get the mechanics of it all. And then season three, you're really and in Romulus' case, you're edging with some Gerri completion.

6:00KT: So how did you feel with season three? And I think this is how we feel a lot with TV shows. We we get worried when we love it so much because there's so much more that you can fuck up. So how did you feel generally about season three?

6:12Oti: I think part of me was frustrated and infuriated by the turn of events.

6:12KT: Okay.

6:12Oti: I couldn't comprehend why after everything that we'd gone up to the end of season two, I felt we're taking a step back or we're we're we've heightened up, let's say, Kendall to a position where yeah. So I thought it's gonna be a beeline to where Kendall has to reach to a place where he's fully actualized in himself, but that wasn't the case. Yeah.

6:45Oti: I think that frustrated me a lot up until things started picking up and things started moving. And I was like, yeah, shame on me for not trusting, trusting, not not believing in the process.

6:58KT: Yeah. And I think something very wonderful happens when we watch things together, friends and lovers, and I'm not talking about the sex position. I pick up on the personalities of characters very early. And I even if you listen to the Succession episode, you know, I talked about how he would walk in the room with a tail between his legs like he just pissed himself, right? And

7:21KT: I wasn't for that sort of energy, especially if you're trying to go through the daddy jugular. Like, it didn't make sense to me. And it's like at some point, or I guess you've never experienced it, Kendall, but at some point, you need to realize that maybe maybe in the future, but definitely not now, you're not ready to take the throne just because you want it. Right? So I picked that up very early, so it was very satisfying to me watching you get frustrated with Kendall

7:49KT: and all his all of his foibles. But we'll talk about Kendall specifically. Is there anything else else you felt generally about season three? Were there storylines that surprised you? Were there characters that surprised you?

8:02Oti: Tom definitely did.

8:02KT: Oh, yes.

8:02Oti: I didn't know I would care so much, especially because of the MacFadyen of it all. I think at the end of it, at the back of my mind, Paul, Tom has always been a low key favorite. He's, you know, he's the outsider

8:15Oti: and He was the Greg before the Greg. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he'd always just be like on the sidelines waiting for him. But then when Shiv came into the picture and became more at least we saw more of the dynamic and the relationship, I think Yeah. Akan was, like, starting to root for him. I was like, what is going How on in does that dynamic shift actually happen? Right?

8:15KT: By giving him the Tarik treatment, you know? Yeah. And

8:38KT: if I could also say Tokyo from La Casa de Papel, like Yeah. It is only with masterful penmanship that you can make us suddenly care about a character that we kind of didn't give a fuck about. Because Tom was definitely one of those characters. Like, it was a lot of fun. Him saying he didn't know who Greg was and they were asking, you sent these hundreds of emails from these hours, you can't break, you can't make a Tomelette without breaking some Greggs.

9:07KT: Like, it was just a delicious, a delicious journey. There's so much to talk about in regards to Tom. But yeah, I would definitely agree, he surprised me. I didn't think that I would actually and we won't talk about it now, but Connor. Connor got his moment in the sun and I was absolutely here for it. I love Gerri, even at the end of the finale, it was very heartbreaking, but I really loved. It's just a fucking great show, just let it happen. Right?

9:36KT: And, you know, Jesse Armstrong talks about the paradox of creating such a great show, wanting to read about the show, but I guess, you know, in in the matrix world of it all, he doesn't want that to influence the world of Succession either. So it is that delicate sort of balance between

9:53KT: the world you create and not wanting to know too much and becoming too meta, I suppose. Or, you know, you know, a lot of season two TV shows or like second movies and franchises become a lot of fan service because they they know that you're watching the thing that's being created. Yeah.

9:53Oti: Season five of Community. Shit.

9:53KT: Oh, I think season four. Five seasons in a Matrix Oti. Yep. But this show is brilliant, you know, we talk all the time about it being steeped in quality.

10:27KT: I guess, you know, if we're talking about fan service Oti, we will definitely get into some depth and discussions, but who do we feel is going to, unless Logan Roy is gonna hire me as Akiyas and never really name a successor. Who do you think is most likely and you can say whether it was at the end of season three or just generally, who do you think is going to take the mantle?

10:55Oti: At this point, yeah, is the only viable one.

10:56KT: Rome.

10:56Oti: No. Not really.

10:56KT: You don't think love can conquer all? That's a very Oti that's a very Oti line.

10:56Oti: It's a very Oti line, but man, he's just not ready. He really isn't.

10:56KT: Okay. I don't agree. Shiv announcing that she's entitled to shit also means she's not ready.

10:56Oti: She's the best of the worst though.

10:56KT: Yeah. I I guess. Let's just get into characters.

11:18KT: It's interesting that you don't even consider Kendall now.

11:18Oti: No. Kendall has pretty much gotten himself out of the running He's fumbled. Towards the end of it. Yeah. He's fumbled it too I've many someone like if you were just to go against Shiv or Rome Yeah. That's a no go. Yeah. Then pretty much manipulate him into doing whatever they want from now on. Yeah. But I don't know. I I guess with all of them, there's a sense of delirium in this

11:44Oti: in the fact that they're not qualified. They don't have the experience, but they still feel like they're the person for the job. Yeah. I just feel like it's not gonna be Kendall, and Rome hasn't shown a lot.

11:44KT: Okay. Don't don't come for my Romulus. We're not we're not talking about Romulus right now. But let's talk about Kendall because this is a very interesting journey that I've had with you, Oti, because you've been defending Kendall for two seasons.

12:10KT: And maybe it's because we watched 20 episodes and then we watched season three. Maybe if we had just watched season three on its own, the Kendallisms, you know, the tail between his legs and pissing himself before he walks into it or while he's walking into a room, maybe it became more onerous because we watched them all together. Where did you, I guess not necessarily fall out of love, but for lack of better word, where did, like, the wheels fall off the Kendall wagon for you?

12:10Oti: Episode one to four of season

12:10KT: Okay.

12:43Oti: I think what they did with this character, they turned him into this bubbling idiot who really didn't want to take best advice. Yes, Kendall has always been that pompous sort of guy. Mhmm. But in season one and two, he sort of listened and he tried to get advice, be it from Frank. He always tried to get sound judgment yeah but now he had he had top

13:08Oti: blokes who wanted to work with him and then just just he granted everything yeah did a lot of shit didn't listen to anyone, he became that spoilt kid trying to throw things off his prom because, you know, daddy doesn't love him.

13:08KT: But what I don't understand is how you see those as two different Kendalls because for me, that's exactly who Kendall is. And from a audience

13:30KT: point of view, it was frustrating, but from a character point of view, it made sense. Like, just because he, you know, announced of his daddy's wrongdoings, it doesn't necessarily mean that a red carpet is going to be laid for you. And what really frustrated me, and it always comes back to what Marcia said to Shiv, they don't they really don't understand

13:52KT: real world implications because they've never really had to deal with any sort of consequences that daddy couldn't sweep under the rug or, you know, throw a underling, you know, under the bus or something. Like, they've never truly experienced that. And yes, it was said to Shiv, but it applies to all of them, specifically Kendall. I don't even understand how you don't see that's the same Kendall because I think part of the problem not not the problem, but the qualm or the Delroy Lindo quarrel

14:21KT: that I had with Kendall was he was trying to own the home that he burnt down. He's trying to talk about the malpractice and the wrongdoings, but he still wants to walk into the burning building and and sit on the throne.

14:33Oti: Yeah. And I and I get all that, but when we're building up Kendall, he is flawed as fuck.

14:33KT: Yes.

14:33Oti: But he's the most like Logan.

14:33KT: No.

14:33Oti: Pissar. He's the most like Logan. You gotta tell me any other son that is the most like Logan compared to everyone else.

14:33KT: Fabulous. And what if the creator just

14:57KT: love and feelings. I'm going to give you a yaya loose pill pocket right now and tell you that Jesse Armstrong, the creator of this show, said that Romulus is most like Logan. Agree I with him. Is the sentinel not sentient, Oti?

14:57Oti: Nah. That's

15:16Oti: because if if you take it in isolation and you take three season three as a standalone, then maybe or maybe even towards the end of season two. But Kendall, Logan says he's a killer. There's no feelings, there's emotion to anything.

15:16KT: No. Says you're not a killer.

15:16Oti: He said Kendall isn't a killer because he couldn't do it. By the end of season two, we get to a point where we we feel that that's the next progression,

15:40Oti: especially when he found out that Logan was about to send him up to the wolves. You know? Who does that to their fucking son? And I thought that was a turning point. But we end up in season three where, outside him throwing his toys off the prom, we get an aspect of Kendall where he's like, oh, I didn't expect to be any sort of blowback. Like my father would still talk to me as if you're fucking lovers. I'm like, me? Yeah. What did you expect?

16:05KT: No, but I think it's even, you know, and I mentioned it in the first Succession episode that we covered, you know, they're doing some big boy tings, but I don't think like to them, it's just like taking $20 out of your parents pocket. Like, I don't think they see it as real, like real big shit that they're doing and I talked about it in the first episode of Succession where, you know, oh, daddy isn't giving me the company so I'll sidestep, you know, with Stewy,

16:39KT: right? Daddy isn't giving me the company, therefore I'm going to go and help, you know, the presidential candidate that is gunning for his neck, right? So for the rest of the world, those are some big boy moves, right? But to them, it's just like tic tac toe.

16:49Oti: Then you have to put things in perspective. Logan is a dinosaur in the industry though. He is. Yeah. And Shiv Shiv made that very clear. He is fucking old media. Yeah. You know, if it was if it was in American Gods, he would have been that I think Gillian Anderson character. Yeah. But things move quite quickly. And at least Kendall realizes that.

17:17Oti: Albeit it being him, looking at it, or implementing his solutions weirdly and wangly, at the end of it Yeah. Logan has set his kids up to always run home to daddy.

17:27KT: Yes. He wants them to succeed but not too much Yeah. Because he should always be the most successful, which he said at the end of the finale,

17:36Oti: I win. I win. You came here blazing, and you realize your guns turned into a sausage as I win. Fuck off. And you come with me with love.

17:51KT: But I I guess let's let's focus a bit more on Kendall so we can move on to other characters. I I saw the writing on the wall. I think from a from an audience point of view, it can get a bit frustrating, but it is believable because he is a bit of a fumbling he's not necessarily a fumbling idiot, but he loves to feed into his ego. And unfortunately, in season three, he he didn't have Frank around. He didn't have, you know, people that was too grounded to reality. And he kept Kendall around,

18:24KT: not Kendall, Greg. And he just kept a lot of yes people around. And like you were saying, I think they were like PR marketing people. Like, they were the best of the best. He hired them and then he fired them because they didn't know what the fuck they were doing, but they didn't feed into his ego. That's what it was. Right? His birthday party episode was one of one of the best episodes in television.

18:43Oti: It really was. I think even a step before that, when they were in the cab and they were reading, like, all the mean tweets and then reading that, like, that version of Kendall, I did not see in the first two seasons. That version of Kendall felt like a fucking uppercut to me, and I felt cheated to some degree Okay. As to my support for him being the successor up to this point where I thought, yes, he has vanity. He's fucking rich. All rich. They all have some fucking

19:13Oti: flawed view of themselves and the world. Yep. But it felt so fucking rudimentary. And I I sat there thinking, bloody hell. Was this always there? Is it me that Justin see this side of Kendall?

19:21KT: Yeah. I would say I would say it is. Because let let me let me come to it. Kendall wants to be perceived as an all around good person,

19:36KT: but he doesn't wanna do the work to be that. He just wants to appear that way. And it feeds into his ego. Like, he's like, yeah, tell me all the good stuff, but tell me the bad stuff even though it is very visible that he can't handle all of the bad stuff. Shout out to Ziwe. It was nice to see her on Succession. Yeah. I'm holding shitty people to account. But it was very on brand for Kendall and there's there's such a hypocritical egregiousness

20:05KT: in regards to Kendall because what I really loved about this season is as, you know, they they did have the extravagance and there was a wedding. So we we definitely got multiple locations in not appearing genuinely expensive places. So we got that. But there were a lot of sibling interactions in this season that I really enjoyed. And there were so many, like,

20:29KT: Kendall with a hood emerging out of the shadows trying to, like, convince his siblings to come over to his side as well. Right? But, you know, in particular, in one of the instances where they hold up in Rava, shout outs to Rava, I feel sorry for Rava, but, you know, he's utilizing that as his HQ and he's talking to his siblings.

20:51KT: And, you know, he he keeps talking about the plight of the women and Rome's like, fuck off. You don't you're like, you don't care. You generally don't care. And even though Shiv knew that Kendall was bullshitting, on some distorted unfounded level, Shiv does believe that she wants to do the right thing. It's the same way when she was doing her campaigning, but I guess not necessarily putting down the actual roots and nurturing it and watering it. But on a base sort of level, she does feel like she's there for the common man. True.

21:25KT: But Kendall's only using this as a ploy. That's what I'm saying. Kendall doesn't give a fuck about no real person involved. Kendall doesn't give a fuck about the women. Kendall doesn't give a fuck about, you know, all of the people that aren't being paid properly. He doesn't care about that. And I think that's what's really refreshing about Rome is he doesn't make any allusion to it. And I guess because we're talking about the elite of the elite, we're talking about the riches of the riches,

21:52KT: I actually kind of find it refreshing that they don't sit around talking about sociopolitical issues that don't really affect them in their day to day lives. Because to me, that's that feels disingenuous. That's Gal Gadot singing Imagine. Like, what the why why are you trying to relate to us? Just do what you do and move on. I don't like the the the egregious hypocrisy of Kendall. That's what really bothers me about him as a character. Anyone that try to ring shout out to Sanaa Lathan. We love Sanaa Lathan. That's

22:25KT: what was really frustrating about Kendall to me from the start and especially in season three. But, you know, I was like, oh, is nice for me because I was watching you slowly lose faith in everything. But I I don't know. Friends and lovers, we put it to you. Is the Kendall in season three a surprise to you, or is it it does it make sense in the Kendall that was offered in season one and season two?

22:51Oti: A step back, maybe. It felt like he completely just one eighty degreed it and went the opposite direction of where he was heading to. Shit. When you say people don't care, none of those kids care at all. Shiv thinks she's the mother carer, Mother Teresa of it all, but she isn't. Yeah, cool.

22:51KT: But Shiv actually feels like she wants to make a difference.

22:51Oti: She talked a woman who had been abused not to go forward only to further her agenda. She's not a good person. But she's like Monica from Silicon Valley. She's not for women. She she pretends.

23:24Oti: She pretends. She carries on as if she's, oh, Mother Teresa, but she's not.

23:29KT: I think I think I think she wants the throne and if she can help other women in the process, she will, but she won't go out of her way to help other women. That's how I see it. But there is a genuine there is a genuine care that Shiv has. However, her ambition overshadows that. It's the same way with her love with Tom. But anyway, is there anything else you wanna say about Kendall?

23:54Oti: Disappointing that I I maybe I was fooled into believing that he could be so much more. But what brought me around was towards the end of the season, where we see Kendall open up with a open up to Shiv and Rome Yeah. In a way that in an interaction we've not seen before in the show. Mhmm. It was so heartwarming. And you could see that the fact that I loved how Rome just well, she didn't change. He was like being Rome. He was being himself. Yeah. Kendall's like, I'm not a good person. You're fine.

24:25Oti: We all are good people. We've probably killed other people as well. Like, it's I love that. And the sincerity of that moment, seeing Shiv, like, realize the gravity of it, I don't know. I it felt really heartwarming. And that's why I was like, okay. If you're not gonna get the Kendall version that I appreciated

24:43Oti: or I thought we would get Yeah. I could settle for this. I could settle for a Kendall who isn't cahoots to the other two and will enable them to be better people.

24:43KT: With their sausage guns?

24:43Oti: Yeah. In a more corporate level because neither of them have experienced a scandal or even know as much as scandal if you're frank with yourself. Yeah. So our token is okay use scandal as your ammunition and either one of the two be it Shiv or Rome.

25:04KT: Yeah, and I guess that's what I wanted to end it with specifically in regards to Kendall. You know, Jesse Armstrong was talking about the pool scene and how, you know, there's already been a tragic death, Obviously, Kendall was involved in that in season one. And he wants to believe that if they felt that they were going to kill off Kendall's character that they would have had the gumption to do it. But there's something in picking up the pieces of a non catastrophe,

25:39KT: right? And that's kind of how, it was very interesting, it was very telling because it's easy to dig your claws in your siblings, you know, on your way to the top, but this was a really sobering moment for a lot of them. Love Kendall being like, you need an intervention. You need an intervention. You need an intervention. And Rome's like, yeah, we all do, but let's just focus on you now. But that that was a very touching moment. But what I will say, however frustrated in particular we got about Kendall as a character, everything

26:15KT: was everything was, you know, lined up to the moment that he not because really, it's just him and Logan and, you know, the people that helped get away with the situation. He needed to be able to accept it and he needed to be able to confide in someone and say it out loud. Because until he actually did that, that's where the healing happens. Right? I hope that I hope that Kendall has some sense of healing, but he was always trying to push away that fact. I just I personally don't understand

26:48KT: why you're trying to burn down a house that you're trying to sit on the throne of. Like, that makes no sense to me. And it's like you're trying to you're trying to paint this public image that Waystar Royco is terrible, but then you wanna be sitting at the throne of it?

26:48Oti: Waystar Royco at the tutelage of

27:06Oti: of the old gods Yeah. Is terrible. Him being at the the head of it that would transform and make things better.

27:10KT: But even the mechanism of it is old media. Right? It's like the Kodak. And I I don't know if it's willing or if it's agile enough to adapt.

27:10Oti: Well, I think that's why Kendall had ideas on how to revolutionize industry.

27:10KT: Yeah. Because isn't Kendall like Zuckerberg? He's gonna work with Skarsgard to build the Waystar Roycoverse. But I agree with you. I think at the time when we were watching Kendall confiding in his siblings, minus Connor because Connor's one of the siblings,

27:47KT: I think we were both, like, confused because we know the quality of the writing of the show, but it felt off. But then it made sense that given how how uneven Shiv and Rome are, that is exactly how they would comfort Kendall.

28:05Oti: I think when you say that the writers are talking about killing Kendall, then they rob us from this having this moment where we've got really hard those three being sincere with each other. They never have vulnerable moments. And even taking it back to season two,

28:22Oti: when Rome had that whole ordeal, he came back on the yacht and there were he was actually trying to have a genuine moment. And I think Shiv's the first one to crack a joke. Like, they never really had a vulnerable, genuine moment and allowed it to happen. Yeah. Even when they were trying to talk about the intervention, that didn't go well either. And that was really the moment.

28:22KT: And did you feel a bit triumphant when they were making their way to Logan to confront him?

28:45Oti: I was worried the whole time. I was eager to see how it's going to happen because those three teaming up, I was for it, man. I was really for it. I was excited.

28:57KT: Oh, and I I maybe do you wanna talk about the finale now? Do you wanna talk about the final scene? Yeah. Okay. So we get this charged up sibling, you know, forces against the evil daddy that be. And from all points and surfaces, it felt like it was really in Rome's hands.

29:20KT: At that point, he had, you know, he had his father's ear. So it was really up to him how this pendulum would swing. Shiv is always in wherever she feels like that she can gain an upper hand. And we saw that with her negotiating a seat on the board in season three. So she's always going to go wherever it fits her interests. Kendall needed them. I don't now that time has passed, I don't know if that's a manipulative

29:48KT: move or if that was just a genuine sibling moment. It feels a bit manipulative now that we're talking about it, but maybe not.

29:48Oti: No. There was nothing manipulative about that. I think Kendall isn't looking to be the head of the of Waystar Royco anytime soon. I don't know. He's he's a bit vulnerable, but that that Kendall will come back. He feels defeated. He's everything he's done just came crashing down. Everything that he thought he was. And it's

29:48KT: How many times has he been defeated from his father and he's come back again?

29:48Oti: But this was different.

29:48KT: Okay. So so so let's let's fast forward.

30:19KT: We get to the moment that the siblings confront Logan. And even at the start, Logan was not into fucking taming whatever the fuck was about to happen. He was not into it and at that point in time, we weren't aware that ducks were already being lined up, right? That their mom, they just walked in on their mom and dad fucking them, essentially. And that was really interesting. I think it was a very edge of your seat mouth agape, what is happening,

30:53KT: what is about to happen, and I guess because we've been at home a lot, how much more time is there? Right? Like like, can this can can there be any pivots from this? Is this the end of the series or the season rather? And then furthermore, after the betrayal,

31:10Oti: we see Tom. We see Tom. It's quite clear that Logan got a heads up from Tom. Mhmm. When he was talking to Greg and asking Greg to join the dark side, I thought it was him going against Logan stupidly. I don't know. For my mind, looking back in retrospect, him going bloody dark means to the dark side means going against Shiv. Mhmm. It was set up quite clearly, but I just couldn't see it. I felt like a dunce because

31:39Oti: I couldn't see it as clearly as it was. Yeah. Him convincing Greg to be his Sporus to his Nero.

31:46KT: Yep. I was yeah. It made perfect sense. But at that end scene, it still shocked me. Yeah. And I think that's that's a great mark of, you know, a narrative of of television where we can still be surprised but the characters move in, you know, ways that make sense. It's still shocking, there's an initial surprise of it, but it definitely made sense. And I guess we'll talk about Shiv and Tom in a second. But just closing out Kendall's character,

32:17KT: I don't think he deserves the throne, but he definitely this is not his last attempt. And I don't mean his attempt with his siblings. I mean, like, him specifically.

32:17Oti: I think it is. I think we've moved past the

32:17KT: So you just Kendall wake up and you're not deluded anymore?

32:17Oti: No. I just think we've moved past the Kendall, oga oga, I'm gonna beat the head storyline.

32:33KT: Well, you're in for a sad time,

32:38Oti: What I transpired in season three, I think they've just beaten that to death. I'm not sure we come back from that, and I don't want us to go back there, to be quite honest. It's done. He's out of the picture. Let it be so. Let him be the background figure who plays a pivotal role in to enable Shiv or Rome to become the leader.

32:38KT: Alright. Just know that you don't control the Succession matrix.

33:03KT: You can you can fanboy about it, you don't control the narrative, my love. Let's move on to Rome, Rome, Rome. What a man. What a man. I no. But are you telling me from season two to now, you don't have any sort of affections for this lovely, beautiful man?

33:03Oti: I like Rome. I like Rome.

33:24Oti: Him as a character, he's interesting. I love how he feels. He's not he doesn't shit.

33:30KT: He has so many feelings. Out of the three, because we're not we're not specifically talking about Connor, but out of these three, Rome actually cares. Like whenever something happens, he actually checks on his siblings and he's like, like, are you good? Like, he isn't even talking about business, he's asking, are you good? And it was interesting and maybe even humbling to me to rewatch season one and I forgot how fucking cruel Rome was. Like needlessly, for no reason, he was very cruel, you know, offering a million dollars to a kid,

34:04KT: that's a mental torture that you should never really put a kid through in a TV show, yes, please. But that was a very cruel thing to do and, you know, even with Logan and he came and he apologized, There are so many instances where Rome is such a callous needlessly asshole of a dickhead. Right? But you can see that's where Logan comes into play. That's what I don't even, like, I don't even see how you didn't even think of it or think much of it. He has a ruthlessness to him. Although he's a

34:42KT: house cat, but he's definitely got the sensibilities of an alley cat. And that's just because he was bought in to such a rich world. But he does have that mean callousness and we've seen that a lot, but he also has the business acumen as well. You know, at the end of season two, we see Rome essentially telling Logan that the the deal is dog shit. Right? And you have you have Karl who was struggling and had a panic attack. Panic attacks aren't funny. It was just the situation and the way it was portrayed.

35:15KT: But, you know, it it would have done well for Rome to just, you know, sniff his own George Clooney farts. It would have done well for him to just buy into, you know, the wankery and tell his dad that he absolutely aced it, which he did. But there was definitely elements that he knew made it a shaky deal. And he told Logan about it. Right? And that's the sort of business acumen that you definitely don't see in Kendall and you definitely don't see in Shiv either. Romulus has

35:50KT: the gusto to get to where he needs to go. There was a lot of mention that he's not ready. I absolutely agree with that. But from a business point of view, I definitely feel he's more ready positioned than the rest of his siblings. But if you wanna say it's a problem, delineating factor with Romulus is that he still cares about his family. And I guess a prime example of it is Logan and Ewan, right, our babe daddy. He

36:23KT: is fully estranged from the family. I don't know. I I don't know. You know, keep your principles as Tom likes to say, and but even though Greg says racism, but everyone fucking hates racism, those aren't principles. No. But Ewan talks some big man talk, but he still takes the big checks. So I don't know. I I I feel a way about that. But I I guess what I wanna bring here is how Logan views success over

36:49KT: familial ties. He is not close with his brother at all, and he and you would imagine at some point that they had that closeness. Right? They had that sort of brotherly sort of bond. But somewhere along the way, Logan realized that he needed to cut throats to get to where he is.

36:59Oti: Yeah. Think that had to do with the sister's death. Anyway, bringing it back to Rome sort of, because you've mentioned how his he has this business acumen, but Kenro does as well. So does Shiv to some degree. It's more that with Rome he just shut down

36:59KT: Examples!

36:59Oti: Oh, examples for

37:24Oti: Kendall would be when he was told to downsize he he did feel like doing that he was like it's a wrong idea it's the wrong way to go about it But he went, told people to come up with ideas, and then fired them the day next. The day after

37:24KT: But that was after a lot of fumbling.

37:24Oti: It doesn't matter.

37:24KT: After he was pushed to the end.

37:24Oti: He got there. We have we have Rome. We love Rome. He's cruel. He's not this goatee shoes. But I believe Logan was going to offer him temporary CEO

37:54Oti: Yeah. Until he second darted himself and continued talking. And he was like, oh, if he's he's doggy, Gerri could be

38:01KT: Yeah. That's where Logan was like, yeah, nah. You're not you're not it. Yeah. Like, should you should want to take down everyone around you to get to where you wanna go. And I don't think that's the same as a killer instinct because a killer instinct is something and then having love for your family and the ones around you. I don't necessarily feel like that those need to be in combatants with each other. I just feel like Rome in for in regards to those three siblings, Rome had everything

38:33KT: to become. And I think there is the there's definitely a begrudgement that Logan has because he can see it. He can see Rome doing it, but there's this there's this hesitance for whatever reason, maybe because of the silver spoon, maybe because he loves his siblings, maybe because he doesn't feel ready and he has that sort of self doubt. And what I will say here is because I think Logan, you know, he is the epicenter. Everyone orbits

39:00KT: Logan, especially a lot of time when Jesse Armstrong talks about blocking, it's always about Logan being at the center, being at the center of power, being at the center of the scene. Logan says some very non PC things, some very homophobic slurs in attack of Rome's masculinity and just in general. Right? And usually that would bother me. Usually that will bother me. I don't know if it's just in this instance, I can chalk it up to great acting and realizing it's part of a script Or perhaps, and I agree with myself on the latter,

39:35KT: that this is how I believe that these sorts of people will be talking like. Mhmm. Because they're not in front of cameras. This is how people talk. People talking behind closed doors is a lot different than face to face. Yeah. I see that. I think

39:48Oti: your conviction in Rome being the be all and end all, I'm not there. Just say you backed the wrong horse, mate.

39:57KT: It's it's not too late. It's not too late.

39:57Oti: He fast tracked the rocket thing. Was it Japan?

39:57KT: No. But are we saying that Logan has never made any missteps and try and cover it up? Oh, he's Come on mistakes. Guess who hasn't killed anyone and just taken off a couple of thumbs? This guy. It's not about being the most perfect businessman. It's the way that you navigate and how you're ready to throw people, you know, into the And I don't think Rome's necessarily ready at that point,

40:29KT: but come on now. Like, keep a scorecard to yourself because I'm I'm really backing Rome.

40:29Oti: Yeah. I just I'm just not there. I think the disappointment from Kendall has to be searing a bit. So until I get to see what Rome has to offer, I won't fully be sort of, hi, team Rome all the way. I'm not there. Because from where I stand, Shiv has a better chance of doing something meaningful.

40:29KT: Well, let's get into Shiv. And that that is a perfect, perfect segue,

40:57KT: residential man on the podcast. You're welcome. I would say Shiv is Logan's favorite.

40:57Oti: Agreed.

40:57KT: However, she is a woman.

40:57Oti: Agreed.

40:57KT: Is out as well. She thank you for thank you. But there's always and he always calls her pinky, like, there's always a sentiment that she's always going to be his little girl. And, you know, misogyny

41:19KT: or, you know, the fact that it's his daughter, whatever you wanna call it. I don't think he ever sees her as a viable option.

41:19Oti: That's why I think you're wrong. I think it does. I think Shiv just doesn't shut up she always just wants to talk too much come on dad you can just tell them it's me every time she wants it either fast tracked

41:40Oti: she keeps on just mentioning things even ideas that are just awful Yeah. Just so that she can be in the present. She can feel that she's, you know, oh, I'm here. She went and interviewed with Frank and Karl or something, then I think Karl called back Logan and was like, oh, she was giving us some bad ideas.

41:58KT: No. But I really do think because if we're talking about the old world, old media, women were like tea ladies, you know, or secretaries. They weren't necessarily in positions of power. Gerri is the exception. But even then, you see they don't really take a lot of stock in what she says either. I just feel like That's why they put her as, the interim CEO because she's not a threat in light of what was happening with the boats crisis with Lester. Like, it it was made very clear that women were only valued so high.

42:29Oti: Yeah. But then I think you have an issue with Shiv where she thinks she is the smartest person in the room when she isn't. Yeah and I think fundamentally that's a problem yeah when she feels that she has the solution she has all the ideas oh shut up oh man it it grinds my gears but at the end of it looking back at the other two, oh, man.

42:53KT: But she has no corporate experience.

42:53Oti: She does.

42:53KT: No. Like, has electoral experience, but she doesn't have experience running a media conglomerate.

42:53Oti: Neither does Rome.

42:53KT: Yeah. Rome was COO. Kendall was CEO. And they've been embedded in the company. And he's done the managerial

43:09Oti: He barely he was barely there for a day.

43:09KT: Still counts. Still counts.

43:09Oti: Wow. You're a Rome tax mate. Might as well call you Caesar.

43:17KT: Don't worry about the Rome accounts I follow. Don't worry about the Rome fan fiction I read.

43:25Oti: Oh, wow. Wow. But Shiv, I think. Shiv.

43:31KT: Shiv.

43:33Oti: She has I think this is the season where I saw her in a completely different light. I think she was never my favorite, but this is where her stalk went down for me. I love Sarah Snook, by the way, but I fucking hate Shiv. I just wanna make that very clear. Yeah. I was like, ugh. Mate, Tom was definitely my favorite. He was always in the background. He's

43:54KT: around with Greg. He's waiting for his he's waiting for his But

43:59Oti: wow. Season three just took a turn for the dark with with Shiv. And how she just treated Tom, that was it for me, like Well well, let's talk about it.

44:11KT: You know, puffy jacket and all with his hopes and dreams in his puffy jacket. Tom is a grown man. Right? So he he may be a bit naive and not have the billionaire smarts that the Roy's have, but he is a grown man. Although we did feel sorry for him a lot of the time, and I think it had to do with the power imbalance in their marriage.

44:33KT: Right?

44:34KT: And, you know, there were so many triumphant moments that happened in this season with Tom. And I feel like it was the finale, was very close to the end of season three where he actually confronts her and he's like, you chose the day that we got married to say you wanted to have an open marriage. Cucking is fine if that's your king, but if it's not, it's sad. And even when they were trying to do dirty talk and she's like, oh,

45:05KT: you love that I don't love you. And I'm just like, fuck, man. Like Yeah. Just no. But, like, have a sobering conversation. Don't try and do that and give him weird boners. Like, there are moments to be vulnerable

45:18KT: and she was just being cruel and using, like, sex talk as an excuse.

45:18Oti: But I don't think Tom is as naive as you think.

45:18KT: But no. But that's what I'm saying. So he's a grown man and we shouldn't feel too sorry about him because he chose to marry into this family even when he was trying to figure out if he will take on the Roy last name only and drop Wambsgans.

45:40KT: So in that sense, we don't need to feel too sorry for him because he's a grown man. But as you say, the power the power dynamic or the power imbalance that we have between Tom and Shiv is self serving for both of them because Shiv can feel so much love because in this case, Tom loves Shiv more than Shiv loves him. That's very clear. It was hurtful to hear, but it is very clear and even Tom knows that. And that undying unquestionable

46:06KT: love is useful for Shiv because she doesn't even you know, a lot of the time when you familiar romantic whatever sort of love or getting a closeness with someone is because you've let your walls down and you've shared the most vulnerable intimate details about yourself. She doesn't have to do that in order to receive love from Tom because Tom will just love her regardless, right? So it works that way because she doesn't need to share everything and in many strategic ways, she didn't share a lot with Tom,

46:39KT: right? But it's also self serving for Tom because it just so happens that the woman that he loves is part of a powerful family. And it felt very gross to me, but then I I kind of liked the way that the season ended, but it did feel a bit gross to me every time Tom was trying to position himself of power even though he's like a distant removed from the family anyway. So if there's nepotism, how far does it stretch to you?

47:08KT: So but it it was definitely self serving because he is living the life and he was the Greg before Greg came along. Yeah. He has always wanted that power. He can walk around and be like, oh, I'm part of the family. And that's his thing.

47:19Oti: I don't feel necessarily sorry for him for that because that's what he married into. That's what he wants. Yeah. But then we come into the emotional aspect for it Yeah. Of it, and that's where I start feeling sorry for him because in as much as you can sign up to be that sort of person that you get, you know, Shiv can feel like, oh, I'll have this guy who would do anything for me or whatever and I don't have to give as much. But

47:44Oti: from his end, he's getting nada other than what he thought he'd get initially, is the company, the name, the stature or whatever. Yeah. That doesn't really add up at the end of the day. He comes home to a cold, Shiv and just being told hurtful things all the time. That's why he wants to run off with Sporus. And even when he was wanting, he was even when he was he thought he was gonna go to jail

48:06Oti: and he was asking Shiv for advice, Shiv was like, okay. Just stop it. Like, what do you want what else do you want me to say? But she felt so ready for her husband to go to prison. And I think even Rome someone picked her up on that, and I think it was Rome mentioning that.

48:17KT: She doesn't seem to have any sort of qualms. Yeah. And even the fact that he said he would lay down his life and go to jail for Logan, it's like she wasn't expecting it, but yeah, let's go with that. Yeah, go to jail. But she did not know that he went to Logan directly. But I think time and time again, she has proven that she's always going to show up for herself and never ever ever consider

48:44KT: Tom. Yeah. In any instance, even when they're like fleeing America, you know, Tom will call and be like, he would always divulge information,

48:53KT: and Shiv would give Nada. And Shiv, like, even if she's literally right there talking to Kendall, she'll be like, oh, no. I haven't heard from him. Like, she's always trying to keep him on the back foot, which, again, like, you love who you love, but fuck, man. Like, there is that emotional component that is not being met.

48:53Oti: Well, at the end of it, I think Tom thought they're a team, and if one of them rises, both of them rise. Yes. And every time she thought she was going to angle for the CEO job, Tom would always ask, and where does that put me? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Oh, we'll find somewhere for you. Yeah. It was sort of an afterthought. Yeah. And I think that's where it just started, especially when he's the chef said, I don't love you. I think that's where that's the whole funnel, nail in the coffin. Yeah. And I think

49:37KT: for comedic effect and also just to be an annoying person, like, Tom talked about like going to jail a lot, fine, but there was a genuine fear that he had. He didn't want to do it, but, know, being a very strategic person, I think he would be very good at board games. Being a very strategic person, he realized this was really his only move, to sacrifice himself in some way to save himself. There was nothing else that he could do, he was like head of ATN, like he was embedded in leadership positions,

50:10KT: He was handed, even though he inherited it, he he wasn't part of it. He didn't create it, but he inherited a lot of the scandal. So this was really the best play for him to do. Right? And Shiv offered no solace, no consolation. Even if it's just accepting that this has to happen and it's a hard decision, she didn't seem caught up about it. And also the interesting thing is she didn't even try, which I guess could be quite admirable.

50:39KT: And really, the ball is in Tom's court, and we saw where he put that ball, and it was in a lovely place.

50:46Oti: That it did. I think just one of the things that struck me was she wanted to actually have a baby with Tom even though

50:56KT: No, she didn't. No, she didn't. Let's be honest.

50:56Oti: She didn't, but the fact that she was willing to have that conversation with Tom is a step that I thought was too far from

50:56KT: No. But she had literally just gotten off the back of yelling with her mother. Like, come on now. Those the best are those the best decisions that get made? And I'm not I'm not even having a conversation about who should be fit to be a mother. I'm not having that conversation because it's gross.

51:22KT: But in nowhere did she express wanting to have a child. No. And she knew

51:22Oti: Open to talk about it.

51:22KT: But hang on. She knew how much that meant to Tom. So that obviously helps with the manipulation and trying to, you know, keep a hold over him. I didn't care for that because it was made very clear that she didn't want a child. Fair enough. It wasn't to delude us into thinking she's going to go into, you know, motherhood and love forever.

51:47Oti: I did not think for a second that she was gonna have it. I thought Yeah. So she was using it as a manipulative ploy. Be that as it may,

51:56Oti: the fact that after the conversation with the mom, she fell to the space where she thought, you know, like, she thought, hey, fuck you, mom. I'm gonna be your mom. Yeah.

51:56KT: But do you have babies in spite?

51:56Oti: People do that all the time. Why should she be exempt?

51:56KT: Wow. That's a justification for many things, Oti.

51:56Oti: It's the fucking world we live in.

51:56KT: I suppose.

51:56Oti: Don't don't put prostitutes and glasses on everything because at the end of the day, people have fucking babies for all kind of reasons. So that's to justify having a Shiv baby.

52:26KT: Yeah. So so Oti's argument for character misstep is everyone does it, guy. It's super cool, guy. Speaking of someone that is not so cute guy, Greg, I don't really have a lot to say about Greg, you?

52:26Oti: Nah, he was just angling more in this

52:53Oti: season. I think the most interesting thing he did for me was trying to sue Greenpeace.

52:59KT: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, like, the most interesting thing about him. No. But I I mentioned it in our first Succession recording, and then I'll mention it now. It's literally come full circle. You know, when I talk about Kendall walking to a room with a tail between his legs, he just pissed himself. Greg does that too. And it kind of made sense that they aligned together. It was cruel and it was mean the way Kendall and even when Greg was trying to say, hey, I'm kind of interested

53:31KT: in, I think it was this PR or assistant. And Kendall's like, oh, what's to say she's not mine, bro? He and it's just like, I don't know. And and Kendall, like, the both of them are so tentative. Like, if you're going to do some big man tings, I need you to have some bass in your throat. Like, don't be so tentative about that shit. That's what that's what pisses me off. Like, if you if you aim for the jugular and you don't get there, that's fine. But if you're, like, wimply

53:59KT: shaking a little, you know, dagger, it's not the same effect. And I don't necessarily like Greg. I've mentioned that many times because if we have anyone that is more like the everyday people, that would be Greg. So I would want someone more formidable than him to represent us. But I will say though, it's it's really a joke on everyone. I think people just think because Greg isn't because he's a bit harmless, they just keep him around. But I think they're forgetting that he's the one that had the key information. He kept photocopies at Thanksgiving.

54:36KT: He's always going to play the field, which I guess would be respectable again if he had some, you know, gusto in the way that he navigated. But he's always going to entertain everything.

54:48Oti: I think people just play into that sort of fallacy that, oh, it's just Greg, but I think he uses that a lot. Oh, yeah. He's not he's He not sees conniving as fuck, mate. Yeah. And I think if they're not careful, he might end up being the CEO out of nowhere.

55:06KT: Well, I guess since we're since we're coming to the end of this, I do wanna talk about Connor. But since we're coming to the end of this episode, do you think Greg has a chance?

55:06Oti: Greg has a better chance than Connor.

55:06KT: Okay. I agree. Much dismay, I agree. I kind of want and I guess it's also going back to your fear of us having to have the Kendall palooza again. I kind of want an illegitimate kid coming out of the ranks.

55:36KT: Like someone that's been, you know, like someone that's been in in the working business world somewhere somewhere not in America and has been building experience and notoriety and just swoops in. Like, I kind of want that to happen.

55:53Oti: Yeah. I could see that. But then again, Logan has a lot of lawyers for that shit. I doubt they'll have anything.

55:53KT: I guess so. But if there's someone that's a worthy adversary,

56:03KT: maybe. I don't know. I I I agree with you, but I'm also not gonna be surprised if we see more of the Kendall show.

56:03Oti: No. Because when we have the final scene, we have the kids walking into Logan with the acts of Caroline, I think. And whatever

56:18Oti: legal, whatever binding that they had to have majority vote or whatever, the kids all had to agree, That was wiped out. Yeah. Logan can do fuck all now. Actually, yeah. Where does that leave him? Even if there's a legitimate ex child out there, it means shit all. Yeah. You're right. But I think that only spawned to those three siblings. It wouldn't look like to Connor. Even them. Yeah. You're right. Of course, Logan has millions of babies out there. It doesn't matter.

56:44KT: Just out there saying fuck off out of the womb. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. I get that. I think with lesser penmanship like myself, I would write my own fan fiction. I know. Is there anything you wanna say about Gerri before we go into Connor?

56:59Oti: Heartbreaking moment at the end for me when she just knocked back Rome.

57:01KT: But it made sense. Made sense. Mean But you could see that she she was out of conflict because she said, how does this serve my interest? Like, was actually trying to get Rome to, like, throw her a bone. She's like, I can help you. I want to help you. You just need to give me a compelling reason to help you. Playtime is over. Give me a reason.

57:01Oti: No. I I don't think that's it. I think it's more Rome realizing

57:26Oti: I think it was more that whatever feeling that Rome or bond or connection that Rome thought he had with Gerri Mhmm. Did not exist at all. No. It just Gerri playing the field. I know you could you think, like, I just took it as and you could see the look in Rome's face just like, the fuck? Yeah. It wasn't a look of, oh, it's it's not that I don't have anything to give you is, he can't even say anything.

57:52Oti: Go back and watch that scene again because I don't know. I'm like, is maybe a conflict.

57:52KT: No. There is a conflict when Gerri says that. And if Rome had given her because that's that's again, that the downfall of of Rome is that he believes that love can triumph. And unfortunately, it doesn't. We see that with Logan and we see this with Gerri. It it got to a point where Gerri realized it was inappropriate, and she was like, stop sending me dick pics. We haven't even talked about, like, the best scene in television history.

58:23KT: But, you know, she she she tries to nurture and bring Rome under tutelage, but he didn't learn anything because even even when he was calling Gerri, Gerri's like, I could squash you, like, with this information, you know, watch out. And he's like, yeah. And it's like, no, mate. Like, you need to get your head in the game. Like, you can confide in Gerri, but you also need to be an asset to her. Yeah.

58:23Oti: I just think that to me, it signified a moment where Rome

58:53Oti: understands what Gerri is as a character in this.

58:53KT: I don't like this Venom Oti

58:53Oti: no Venom just she will be whoever she needs to be

58:53KT: okay I agree with that a 100% but she definitely cares for

58:53Oti: she might but at the end of the day Rome standing there with his tail in his hand not knowing what to do having cried love to Logan being knocked back yeah asking begging yeah for Gerri to say anything

59:22Oti: Even if Gerri was like, oh, maybe we could just include Rome in a little, you know

59:22KT: But that makes her weak.

59:22Oti: I know. I know. Just I I'd love to conquer something. Just anything.

59:34KT: Friends and lovers, that's a callback because I did say it was a very Oti line.

59:34Oti: I know. I know. Just

59:40Oti: silly hell. I'm a romantic. And Rome and Gerri can't find a way to support each other at the end when things are burning up. What the fuck is that?

59:40KT: I think I think Rome found a safe space in exploring his sexuality with Gerri.

59:56KT: I don't necessarily think it's the end game of them ending up together because them ending up together is him locking her away, and that's the equivalent of marriage. I don't I don't personally believe that they are going to get together in a romantic sense. I just feel like Rome is, you know, there is a trepidation of him exploring his sexuality and we see that with Tabitha. And I think she was very cruel. Like, if you're if you're in a sexless, like, relationship,

60:29KT: don't say that at a fucking dinner table where they're trying to get like business deals going on. Yeah, that's messed up. I don't know, maybe maybe rich people operate on different levels. I don't know. We also established that rich people don't have sex, right? But yeah, I just yeah. I I don't think they're gonna end up together, but yeah. I don't know, Kieran Culkin, as you like to say in our first recording of Succession, Kieran Culkin, he deserves an award because that scene,

60:58KT: we we've all we've all sent sexy pictures friends and lovers, and we hope to never feel that magnitude of shame and embarrassment. Man. This show that doesn't write itself, but it definitely splooshes ourselves. Let's finish off with Connor.

60:58Oti: And Shiv, your best friend, trying to talk Gerri into flaming. Fuck off. Yeah. She was not for women. Yeah. She saw it as a a movie. She might even forgotten about that. I forgot about that too. Oh, you know, if you felt intimidated by any way, it's like, fuck off.

61:37KT: Fuck off, Shiv. Thank you for that, but also, no thank you. Let's talk about Connor. Connor definitely entered my heart chambers in this season. And, you know, I guess bringing Rome back into this, you know, when Rome had to do that little fluff piece about how much he loves his daddy, and he talked about that fishing trip. And then we have a little debrief with Logan and Rome

62:01KT: and he's like, I never took you fishing. And we later find out that Connor Who's gone? Connor was the one that did. And I think there were a couple of examples through this season where they talked about how Connor was the one that did whatever they said dad did. Anything emotionally tied to them thinking that they have a good memory of their dad, it was probably Connor. Yeah. And I think this I I hope we get some more focus

62:27KT: on Connor because he did definitely become the jester in the court. You know, him vying for presidency was very funny and got a giggle gaggle, not out of Logan, but out of us two. But he he definitely had a very different childhood because Logan stepped out on, you know, that marriage

62:46KT: when Connor was like eight. Didn't see them for ages. And his mom had substance abuse. So when he was with, he was either with a very sick mother or he was at boarding school, he lived a very different experience. And, you know, even Alan Ruck talks about, you know, every so often Connor's just tapping at the window asking Logan if he can come in, you know. So he definitely didn't have that silver spoon that the rest of the kids had. And one of my most favorite delicious moments in this season is with Connor

63:15KT: and he talks because, yeah, it's a sad time and Kendall's going through a lot of shit, albeit he doesn't wanna face it, but he stands his ground and he's like, I'm the firstborn. I am. Not you. Me. I was like, yes, Connor. This is the Connor we want.

63:31Oti: Yeah. It was heartwarming seeing that scene, I think. You're right. He's been the butt of the joke all the time. But there has to be more to Connor. Yeah. Absolutely. It's just hard. And I think him speaking out to the siblings like that was the best moment. One of the best moments in the show.

63:31KT: And I think I think it's all in good time because again, we talk about the masterful penmanship

63:56KT: in Succession, so it would be impossible to have a one dimensional character in this show. It was just all in good time. There's, you know, it's such an orchestration of character into plays and dynamics that we didn't necessarily get time to address Connor in any sort of meaningful way. And I hope that's where we're getting to in season four because as much as it's funny to laugh at him,

64:21KT: I think he is quite aware of how his life is. And he even says that to Willa. He's like I know. I live a half cock life and, you know, but fuck it, it's my life, let's get married, right? So I don't think, you know, the same thing you say with Greg, like Greg does these shitty things, but he's not as dumb as he leads on. And also at the same time, Connor isn't necessarily living a fully functional life, but then again, who is in But that

64:49KT: he's aware. Yeah, he's aware. He knows Willa doesn't really love him, but fuck it, I still wanna marry you. And that that becomes a whole therapy session of how he receives love that he know he can't receive fully or be given fully.

65:02Oti: That's a Then again, he's pretty much married Logan then. Don't think Logan loves Connor Connor?

65:09KT: Yeah. I I yeah. Yeah. No. Well, not as much as the other three. Well, he put his eggs in a different trust fund basket. Right? Yeah. That's why I'm hoping there's another kid somewhere that can come and take over. But I I I love Connor so much. I don't know what the future has for him. I just know that in this show,

65:30KT: I would like to see more of Connor because, again, the penmanship is there. He's not a one dimensional character, but like you said, he has become the butt of the joke, and I I wanna see him get his day in the sun. Me too. It's about time. Let's let's make Connor into something better. Let's stop with the Kendall Logan shit, I think. Like, he knows he knows paying for different grains of sand is ridiculous. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Just like Archer. But he's rich? That's all they do. No. But like,

65:58KT: he makes no illusion to the fact that the things that he's doing is ridiculous. However, this is the life that he's built for himself. And he deserves it because you can tell he's had some struggles in his life, so fuck it. Yeah. I I don't think Connor's the one to take the mantle, but I've really I've really enjoyed, you know, having Connor in the show. And again, I just I just wish all the best.

66:16Oti: Yeah. Hopefully, he'll find something better than Willa, though. I think he deserves that at the very end. If he told me the predictions for how this show would end, I think giving Connor a happy ending would be something that I'd actually want. Even if everything else bonds, at least Con ends to be happy with someone who actually feels the same way that he does.

66:42KT: Yeah. But also at the same time, friends and lovers, we build the lives that we want. And it might not be our future lives, but if it serves the purpose for now, then let it be. Because apparently self awareness is a commodity and a scarcity in the Roy family. The fact that like Kendall didn't seem to have any Oedipus qualms of them walking through the canal of their mother to his birthday. Like, there's definitely a lack of self awareness that we have in this show, but it is delicious. I

67:18KT: hope Succession comes back very soon. I hope it does. We're gonna finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference, Oti.

67:18Oti: I'm gonna reference Yellowstone.

67:29Oti: Yeah. Take a second. Be patient. It builds up and it's very, very entertaining. Kevin Costner is great in it. Great.

67:39KT: I'm going to reference the same vying for the throne. Great, delicious, vulgar dialogue, but on a definitely more lighter note, The Great. Huzzah. Huzzah. If you would like to fanning our huzzahs on Twitter and Instagram, we're at for your f one. Right. That's an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also on Connor for president podcast if you like to leave a rating and review. And we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.