Shining Vale – Self Phelps
Hosted by
KT & Oti
Show Notes
Rediscover your faculties with lustful lovers, youthful rebirth and paranormal happenings. File us under the In Heat Housewives section as we discuss Shining Vale this week.
Episode Details
- Duration
- 0:00
- Released
- May 17, 2022
- Category
- Episode
- Hosts
Transcript
Transcript (6,824 words)
Full transcript of Shining Vale – Self Phelps.
KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, but it is the week of two firsts. It is the first time we are covering Courteney Cox on the podcast and also most lovingly, Greg Knee. Mhmm. Kinnear or Fa. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and erotica lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. We got your host, KT.
Oti: And Oti.
KT: Rediscover your faculties with lustful lovers, youthful rebirth, and paranormal happenings. File us under In Heat Housewives section as we discuss Shining Vale this week.
KT: Hoo. Let's get into general stats and information, and welcome, welcome, welcome, friends and lovers. Welcome to a lovely, delicious time. Creators of Jeff Astrof and Sharon Horgan. Uh-huh. Surprisingly, Tarantino, you can create something and not insert yourself. This show is part of the Starz Enterprise. I think you could mistake it for being the 50 Cent enterprise. It was released in March 2022. In way of cast, we have Courteney Cox, Greg Kinnear, and Susan Park. Friends and lovers, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, tryst, tryst, tryst. Let's get straight into it. Let's talk about first impressions.
KT: I do believe you introduced and most welcomely thank you for introducing Shining Vale into our household. How did you feel about it? How did you feel throughout? And where are you where are you sitting now? Because it has been announced that season two is going to be coming out. So how do you feel, my love?
Oti: Excited. I'm glad that it's been
Oti: given the go ahead for season two. It's a show that I wasn't really that confident in. It's hard people that we love and Courteney and Greg.
KT: Oh, like besties. Hey? One might say, NBC Enterprise,
KT: Friends.
Oti: Yeah. And I was like, you know what? Let's give it a go. One of the shows on Force was coming to an end when I think Shining Vale came through. And I'm like, you know what? Let's give it a go. Mhmm. And it's a decision that we don't regret. It really caught on the first it's sort of the first episode gave us or at least gave me a bit of Hereditary
Oti: vibe, and I didn't know where we were going.
KT: Nice Ari Aster.
Oti: Thank you. Mhmm. And and I thought maybe, okay. Okay. This is gonna get a bit interesting. And this longer we continued watching it, the farther away from Hereditary, to my opinion, it went from. But it was still enjoyable, And I'm just glad that we have this to look forward to.
KT: Oh, absolutely.
KT: And I I guess if we were to talk more like recent sort of similar sort of thematics, we recently covered From, which is a very eerie couple of steps away from reality, and that's kind of where Shining Vale is. Even Castle Rock, which unfortunately we kind of dropped off on. You could if you're being generous, you could call you could call it a slow burn, but I do feel like it kind of just jilted for a little bit. But like thematically, aesthetically,
KT: it did kind of remind me of Castle Rock and even most recently, Yellowjackets. Oh. Yeah. Just to have that sort of grainy, creepy creepiness, you know, that paranormal happenings going around. I think it is quite clear and, you know, we haven't necessarily covered it on the podcast, but you can definitely draw inspirations from The Shining, Rosemary's Baby, and I guess even just the sense that, you know, with Courteney Cox's character, Pat, is an author. You could even talk to Misery as well. So there's definitely a lot of leanings, a lot of inspirations.
KT: In no way does it feel like it was trying to duplicate, but you can definitely see the homages. And even when we talk about Jordan Peele, you can see when the creators and the directors and the writers and those behind the screens are fans of the horror genre.
Oti: Oh, yeah. You gotta be a fun fast man.
KT: Yeah. And what I will say, I don't know. I I haven't necessarily followed Courteney Cox's career. I wouldn't say that she would be the first of the Friends alumni that we've covered. Maybe very Panic at the Disco League.
Oti: It it might even be Schwimmer because we talked about him in 30 Rock. Well, I think growing up, Matthew Perry was sort of the go to for me. I think I gravitated towards more his movies more than any other cast member. So, yeah, look forward to look forward to Matthew Perry degustation.
KT: Friends and lovers, if you notice any emails coming out from hello@fyrpodcast about Oti unofficial Matthew Perry merch, please report to sender. Feel free. I don't think that's going to get us to quit. I think in Theo's Instagram will get us out of work much quicker. Oh, you reckon?
KT: So so so are you saying, like, Courteney Cox in general in regards to Friends? Because we've never really gotten a chance to speak and I've never really latched on to the Scream sort of franchise. But so you're saying Matthew Perry is your fave? Because really the only one I can think of right now is 17 again with like Zac Efron.
Oti: Not not my fave, just more of his work outside of Friends at the He
Oti: he got some really exciting movies. Least I remember fondly. Probably now if I rewatch, that won't be the case, but I'll keep watching my memories. I remember David Schwimmer's sort of Six Days, Seven Nights. It it wasn't even the main star, but I don't know. Like, Matthew Perry was the one that I watched most outside of that. So
KT: Not even Jennifer Aniston.
Oti: Yeah. Her stuff was there too, but I don't know. I just didn't really like them.
KT: Well, there you go, friends and lovers. It was our For Your Reference Friends corner.
KT: That's as much as we're going to say. I would recommend you go and watch Living Single and check out our episode for Living Single. I I guess my point is because I'm not very familiar with any of the Friends, Oleoti, my lover, is I don't know. Is Courteney Cox like typecast as being a bitch?
Oti: No.
KT: Because I'm what I'm saying is she's very effective as a bitch with Pat.
Oti: Yeah. She is. In Cougar Town, she's sort of a a bitch.
Oti: I felt like I had to do a Key & Peele hide somewhere before I said that.
KT: Watch out watch out for our upcoming
KT: feminist show, Minx, in the coming weeks, friends and lovers. But yeah. She's a bitch because she's a bitch, not because she's a woman. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Hold standards in this house. Some decorum, D. O. T. Some decorum. Well, I guess my point is I really didn't like her as a character. And if you'll pardon the pun, Greg Kinnear is my little ray of sunshine, and I fucking love him. And I would love to protect him like a little baby bird and hold him against both of mine bosoms.
KT: I just want to take care of him, and I wanna make sure he's okay. Right? So to have the contrast between these two, you know, it it it was very clear to me that Courteney Cox was hitting all of the notes in regards to that bitch sort of character. I'm I'm all about it. You know, as as the residential bitch on this podcast, I love I love a good bitch moment. However, I'm saying I didn't like her from the jump. Right?
Oti: Did you at least warm towards as
Oti: the show progressed?
KT: No.
KT: I think I'm more in deed to Rosemary than I am Pat, and Rosemary killed her family. Yeah. But I guess the point that I wanna say is even though I didn't care for Pat, I did find myself enjoying the show. You know, sometimes when characters are so frustrating that it makes you not wanna be in a rush to finish the show or to continue on a week to week sort of basis. I was loving it. And I think that that's also credit to the cinematography. We talked about the aesthetics,
KT: the the ability to be able to create an ongoing week to week atmosphere, an unsettling atmosphere. You know, you referenced Hereditary earlier, and if we're gonna continue talking about Ari Aster, like Midsommar, there's lots of like unsettling scenes in Ari Aster cinematography. And we definitely saw that with Valerie's character and the way she died. We're dead. If you cling to the deity, that was kind of a way to go, really. It was very it was a medieval Christianity on the spike going on there. Valerie the Impaled, am I right? But
KT: there was so much quality and even the writing in this show, it was very solid. It made me care about a lot of the characters. And then even though I didn't care for Pat, she felt lived in. She felt like a character that had their own motivations and their own experiences.
Oti: Yeah. 100% agreed. I think, to me at least, I got to understand more Pat's character. I I yes. There are moments where I'm like, this is fucked up. I don't agree. But you could sort of see where she was coming from. But majority of the time, it was definitely
Oti: Terry's character that carried the show throughout.
KT: And I'm sure, you know you know, Greg Kinnear, as lovely as he is, he is human. I don't see a world where he isn't perfect, but he kind of was. Like and Terry's character felt like a perfect man. And I'm like, what are you doing? And then we also find out because I don't think it was I don't think it was revealed at the start of the show why they were moving to that house. Right? So that was, like, slowly unveiling
KT: the shining veil, if you'll pardon the pun, on why they why they went for broke and they moved there because Pat went yonder.
Oti: That's a way to put it. She did cheat on Terry multiple times as Terry found out. Yeah. Which was which was sad, you know. You could sort of explain the one off incident kinda. I'm not encouraging it to anyone. But for it to happen throughout the week, for for Pat to even recognize a coffee machine
KT: Yeah. That's fucked up. And I also feel like there's a lot of don't give a fuckery from Pat's character. There's also a part of me that feels like Pat doesn't even care that she accidentally revealed that. You know what I mean? It's not like she got caught and she's like, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. But then, you know, there is a component and there's also like, you know, content warnings at the start and, you know, resources at the end of episodes
KT: about, you know, mental illness and also about suicide ideation as well. So I guess if we take that component on, then it makes sense that she was a bit indifferent to the fact that it was hurting Terry, her husband, devoted husband who loves her so much because she wasn't in a space to be able to navigate a loving, healthy marriage.
Oti: Yeah. Loving, healthy marriage and
Oti: her job she had taken, you know, they'd given advance. She had not retained a word for her book, you know, and I think the stress caught up to her. She didn't feel like she could. You know, once you get that sort of best selling author tag, trying to come up with a second book was difficult for her. So
KT: Doesn't it feel like everyone's a New York bestseller though?
Oti: Yeah. At this point, man.
KT: I don't know. Friends and lovers, please meet us at our new website, New York best podcast sellers. Surely, can translate to podcasts as well. But, you know, while we're talking, I'm even finding parallels with Fatal Attraction.
Oti: Yeah. Dude, I could see some sameness in that.
KT: But I'm finding it interesting because pretty much right at the jump of this episode, I was talking about how Pat's such a bitch. Right? And even though it's acknowledged that she's getting the help she needs and, you know, there is a component of mental illness,
KT: I don't have the same sympathy for her the way that I had sympathy for Glenn Close's character in Fatal Attraction, but maybe it's just who had power.
Oti: You had sympathy for her?
KT: I believe I did. Maybe because of a dry pussy needing tap water.
Oti: Yeah. Because I'd do it.
KT: I think the Fatal Attraction was between the loins. No. But what no. But I'm saying it's all in the game. Like, Michael Douglas, for your reference, go and check out our episode on The Game as well. Our OG go to eighties horny man, Michael Douglas, he initiated all of that shit. Right? So maybe that's the difference because we have two women, two protagonists in Shining Vale as well as Fatal Attraction. But with Glenn Close's character, she just couldn't help but fall in love. If
KT: you'd call that love. But you see what I'm saying. We we have we have female characters that have acknowledged
KT: mental illness, but for some reason, it doesn't equal that I'm both gonna care about them. That's what I'm saying.
Oti: Yeah. And fair enough, man. You know, we get to see why Patricia is like that. I think the moment where Gaynor sort of starts feeling sad for Pat because Gaynor has this attitude. She she's a teenager. She fucking hates her parents. You know? Nothing new in the world. But the moment where
KT: It's not but can I can I also interject that, you know, someone who was once a young whoreman
Oti: Oh, is that how you worked?
KT: I didn't say innocent. I just said, yeah. No. But like, there was a part that I resonated with with Gaynor because it's the hypocrisy of Pat. Like, who are you to tell me I can't wear this fucking outfit meanwhile you stepped out on your whole marriage? Like, how does that even equal that?
Oti: But once you look beyond the salaciousness of everything around Pat, she had a fucking tough childhood.
KT: No but don't do that like that but that doesn't work oh because I'm your mom because I'm your parent and I tell you to do this Monkey see, monkey do, monkey splooshy all over you.
Oti: Wow. She had to put her mom in a home and even when Gaynor heard that, she was like, oh, fuck. I've been mean to Pat all this time and she had to go through this as a kid. Why can't you afford her some of the sympathy that we even see Gaynor gave Pat in one of those rarest moments?
KT: So you do have friends' tax. You tried to trick me with Matthew Perry. It was a smokescreen because you really care about Courteney Cox. No. But that's not fair Because Gaynor's a young teenager, and she, obviously, as a young woman, she was leaning on her mother to give her guidance. So in that sense, I don't think the way that she treated her mom was anything that was out of line or out of order. And if you're saying it the same way, we discovered things about Pat.
KT: But also in many other cases, when we talk about characters in fictional fucking films and TV shows,
KT: you choose where you want to deposit your resonance as well.
Oti: Yeah. No. It was just shocking that I I there there wasn't any left for Pat when I felt like she had to endure a lot.
KT: Does that mean she can continue going around
KT: continuing to break the foundations of her marriage, continuing to be absent for her children? Does that excuse all of that? And continuing to give blowjobs in the convertible?
Oti: I'm not gonna be the blowjob gatekeeper. That should be a podcast.
KT: Yeah. It's it's a New York best podcast selling.
Oti: But I just feel that despite all her flaws, and I agree, she's she's a terrible pass she's a terrible mother. She doesn't know where what Gaynor and Jake do most of the time.
KT: Woah. Can we acknowledge that women have multidimensions
KT: and they're not just wholly terrible?
Oti: Not everyone is a good mother.
KT: How dare oh.
Oti: Just saying.
KT: Leave Sissy Saint alone. I will no longer have this slander. Friends and lovers, I often lay awake at night thinking how this podcast is going to get canceled. And I'm pretty sure what Oti said.
Oti: But to be fair, I'm not the one that said it. So I'm glad you're the one that's going to get, you know, that heat. I I I think Pat is flawed like any other bloody human in this world, and she's struggling to deal with it and trying to capture moments where she was happier in life in writing a book or being a successful author. So you know what? In as much as I know all our flaws, I could still throw some sympathy or have some tax around that.
KT: Friends and lovers. This is a perfect example of where I personally don't think the word female
KT: is loaded or offensive in any way, but then you start to hear particular people say the word female and you and you realize there is absolutely of loaded venom. Hashtag reproductive rights. Hashtag Oti stay away from my ovaries. My female ovaries. Are we done exploring your mommy issues now? Yeah. Yeah. Let's move on. Well, let's talk about Terry if we're if we're going to talk about the married couple. I think it's a scenario of watching a car crash and knowing that you shouldn't be looking, but you continue looking
KT: in regards to Terry because I I personally have not been in this situation, but I can also understand why Terry needed to know even though logically that doesn't help the healing process or the ability to move on. I didn't know what he expected going there to beat the guy up, but he did his done diddly hardest, didn't he? He did.
Oti: You you can tell that he loves Pat a lot. He's trying to repair the marriage. They're going to therapy, and that I'm pretty sure we'll get to that therapist later. But even in the revelations, in the therapy sessions, and everything you get to learn, I'm like, why are you still with Pat? Like, she's giving you every excuse to just bloody walk away. And I think even that frustrates or makes Pat wonder a bit, like, why is this guy still here?
KT: I think it's also like,
KT: why aren't you reacting at all? Because it is reasonable for any human to react to the situation. And I think as toxic as it is of Pat wanting a reaction because she did it. She threatened him with was it a fire poker or like, I don't know. Bobby Brown mounting on a ghost. You can use your ghost as a excuse. You can use your sleep paralysis demon apparently named George and evil as your excuse. But, you know, in any case, in essence, Pat was almost about to kill Terry
KT: and still nothing.
Oti: Yeah. And that's what I wanna hopefully, we delve deeper into in season two because there's a lot. You know? He even finds the pictures of Pat's giving Rosemary's husband head, and she he's still there Yeah. At the end,
Oti: you know? Like, it's not unreasonable
Oti: for you to react to this. Yeah. You know, and considering there's also Catherine in the mix who's throwing herself Catherine.
KT: Yeah. Like, it's wild. It's wild. That's Figueroa. Mhmm. Orange Is the New Black. No. But I what what do you think about it? Because there's definitely two components here. There's the fact that you love someone, and unfortunately, in this case, Pat kind of betrayed that love that Terry had, not just by cheating, but by continuing to test his love for her. And you can really, you know, like, you can really love someone, and unfortunately,
KT: it's to the detriment of your own self and your own needs and your own care. Right? So those are the two sort of components. The fact that he loved Pat so much, but then also him not wanting to necessarily face the reality of this potentially rocking everything he knows, his marriage, his children,
KT: his livelihood.
Oti: Yeah. I think at the point towards the end there, we see that Terry is making the decision, okay, I'm gonna send the kids away to my to my parents, and then hopefully, they figure out whatever's going on. But everything just goes AWOL after that. I want to see a wholly realized Terry in season two where we we delve
Oti: deeper, we understand every action because we don't know his background yet. We've gotten a lot of Pat's background on how she is, who she is. With Terry, you know, he's the good guy. He doesn't want to offend anyone in the office. Even when the boss is being a dick, he'll just be there. And the most shocking thing that he ever did was give his boss a bloody finger when he resigned. We all wanna do that.
Oti: But you could you could tell that it meant so much to him even though he knew he didn't know what the fuck he'd do with with his life after that. So I'm really intrigued to see the man behind the cartoon and understand exactly why he is like that.
KT: I think, you know, it's clear because, you know, the was it seventeen years that Pat was sober? Like, he's had to shoulder a lot of being the rock, being the dependable one,
KT: making sure that, you know, if if everything fell to shit that he was there to pick up the pieces, whether it be the kids, whether it be Pat, he had to be the dependable one. And I think that's quite clear. He got used to being that. And, you know, we also see later that, you know, he was hiding the fact that the house that they bought, there was a suicide in the house. But I think we've now learned that there were multiple what oh, I think the suicide would be Rosemary, but she killed her family. So in any case, semantics. But the point is, he felt the need to continue to protect Pat because
KT: it was frustrating, and I understand why Pat was frustrated that Terry didn't tell her. But also at the same time, even without, like you say, getting a backstory of Terry, you can imagine the years and the decades that he's held this family together.
Oti: I can. And we saw a moment where he was scared of not having anything to do in the morning when he woke up. Yeah. Because for so many years, he was that mister Dependable.
KT: Is that is that a Kelly Clarkson spin off?
Oti: Oh, I I thought more a a Ne-Yo spin off bait.
KT: Okay.
KT: Get your fedora ready. Did you think there was a part of him that was going to roll in the hay with Catherine?
Oti: I'd hoped I'd hoped he'd have fun.
KT: To, like, balance it out?
Oti: Yeah. Plus the fact that when when Terry told Pat, oh, I was about to do it with Catherine, Pat was like, oh, you should have. It would have been a pass. Yeah. Just do whatever makes you happy, man. He he deserves it. But then again, he was fucked by Rosemary. So he he thought there were levels deeper in there. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess once you get that paranormal
Oti: level of sustenance,
Oti: you can't really go back to the carnal form. Bobby Brown talks to about that shit till this day. Yeah.
KT: But you're absolutely right. There is like a darkness and there is a sadness. There is a loneliness brewing in Terry. And I think we start to see it, like, you know, for as I wanna say naive, but for as committed as he was to uphold the unrealistic image of a perfect family, that was keeping him going. Once he lost his job, that's when he sunk to a level of no return. So I'm definitely I didn't even realize that I would want a possibility
KT: of a Terry backstory, but now I'm most welcome. Mhmm. Alright. Let's talk about the children. Do you wanna talk about Jake first or you wanna talk about Gaynor?
Oti: Let's start with Gaynor.
KT: Okay. There's definitely a lot more, and there's not as much stranger danger in regards to Gaynor. But you do pull to, I would say, one of the most compelling sort of story arcs in this show. And, it does bring into perspective what Pat has gone through in the sense that she's not in isolation.
KT: You know? She wasn't raised by a village. She was raised by a mother that was not well and unfortunately, she at a very young age, at Gaynor's age, had to admit her mom into an institution. That's some heavy fucking shit. It is. And I guess while we're also talking about parallels and comparisons, when we were first watching this show, I was a bit concerned over how they would traverse and how they would be able to balance the supernatural with real life hard shit like mental illness.
KT: I was worried it was going to be a bit like Relic. We love Emily Mortimer, and she does have a primo Australian accent more than Hollowbones. I Thank you, 30 Rock reference. And I feel like she has a better accent than Rose Byrne, and I know she's Australian. Come and fight me neighbor motherfuckers. Wow. But Relic, I feel like didn't really deliver in that particular sense, and I'm not gonna spoil it in particular, but if we're talking about traversing, you know, drawing parallels between really hard life shit with supernatural stuff elements,
KT: I really feel like Shining Vale did that beautifully, and it it really continued to build on that quality as the show continued. But that's kind of where we see, you know, the the dynamic between Pat and her mom because she had to be that person. And, you know, it's interesting as we talk about this, you know, Pat had to be that so long for her mother and obviously, unfortunately, and because we always say no one can fuck you up.
KT: More than your parents. So even though Pat will get to a point of healing, it will always be a continual cycle because that is still her mother. Mhmm. And how the fuck do you reconcile having a less than savorable childhood the way that Pat did? Like, she's never gonna fully heal from that, unfucking fortunately.
Oti: True. It is sad. And I think we see Gaynor
Oti: sort of still want, you know, she could act standoffish all she wants. But in the moments where life happens you can see that she's looking towards Pat to be there you know she's been let down a lot of the time she doesn't really want to expect too much from Pat. Yeah. But in those moments where okay I'm gonna get baptized I'm gonna want my parents there. I'm gonna want my mom there. And you could see how sad she was. Like, yeah, she could brush it off her side, but she was like, it would have been cool to have my mom here because, hey, you're the fucking mother. Yeah. Even when she still didn't understood
Oti: where Pat was coming from or Pat had to endure as a kid. Yeah. Yes. She got emotional. She understood she wanted to be close or at least
Oti: be closer to her mom. Yeah. But that still didn't happen because her mom had always had this sort of trail of thought of, oh, Gaynor will always be this sort of way. And it didn't come that moment of closeness didn't come up until Rosemary showed up. And Rosemary was able to sort of create that bond.
KT: Yeah. As a non parent, I do wonder because, like for me, it was very clear that Pat was continuing the cycle of brokenness.
KT: I do wonder that. And and or maybe even if you're not even talking about being a parent, think sometimes it's easier to see the behaviors in other people than of ourselves probably. Yeah. But I don't know. There's a responsibility, especially if you're a parent and Gaynor's, know, direction because it it is literally deja vu of what she went through, black cat, matrix, and otherwise.
Oti: It is. You can see
Oti: what her future would probably be like. Yeah. And that's sad. Yeah. And the fact that Pat had to go back to her mom to ask for pills that she used to take. Yeah. You know, that was truly horrifying to me. I was like, just repeating itself,
Oti: but she's still not able to identify that and that's the most worrying thing.
KT: I kinda wanna take a step back and have the conversation we were having when we're talking about From, Friends and Lovers, for those that don't get to listen in a linear timeline, Harold Perrineau and the producers, and people involved in the TV show Lost.
KT: We talked about whether the situation and the setting of the From TV show was grounded in any sort of reality or was it sci fi? And I kinda wanna pose that question here in Shining Vale. Do you believe that we are grounded and it it really is mental illness with Pat and also her mother and a lot of the hallucinations and fantastical supernatural stuff is, I guess, being exhibited through that? Or do you think we're in a meld of both worlds?
Oti: Oh, I think this is wholly rooted in reality, sadly. Yeah. Right? I feel like everything is in Pat's mind. Sad. Even when we see the Valerie die, I feel like Pat had to be there to do something. I've I feel like Pat pushed or some shit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Once it's all revealed at the end, I feel like Pat will be at the center of every mess up that's happened. Because there are blackout moments. Exactly. And in those moments, they don't show us what transpired.
Oti: Yeah. I I just feel this is wholly rooted in reality, sadly, and different from from that supernatural element of it. I think it's just a tool to get us from point a to b, but it's not what's really going on.
KT: So you're the gatekeeper for sci fi, but not the gatekeeper for sci fi blowjobs?
Oti: No. Ectoplasm matters.
KT: Sploosh, friends and lovers. No. But I I do think that's an interesting sort of element. It doesn't take anything away from me, but I do I do wonder how you were feeling about the whole hallucinations. And, you know, a lot of it is driven by her meds. A lot of it is driven by her meds because, obviously, that alters the state. And then progressively, she she breaks her sobriety and she starts drinking again. So a lot of it is fueled by medication and the alcohol.
Oti: Yeah. And if those are not clues to you
Oti: that this is wholly rooted in reality, then I don't know what to say. I don't feel like the supernatural elements of the show are reflection of what's happening. Yeah. Even when we get to Jake and talk about Daisy being in the VR, no one else can see Daisy. You know? There's something going on with the Phelps. Yeah. I need N Supernatural.
KT: Send Phelps. Thank
KT: you, Oti, the original Hardy Boy.
Oti: You're welcome. I've got a clue. Now let's point it right to thee. Thank you, Jupiter's Otis cock.
KT: Well, let's talk about Jake, but thank you for that tantalizing discussion. I always like I always like the vessel of, you know, imagery and symbolism and how it relates to because you know I love grounding a story. Mhmm. I love grounding a story. But, yeah, let's talk about Jake. Like you mentioned, Daisy seemed to be like a character that none of his gaming friends acknowledged. And we did have a cute exchange between Terry and Laird when, you know, potentially catfishing and potentially predatorily coming after Jake, but it was just both of their sons
KT: being best friends online. So that was very cute, but it is it it does present a interesting sort of element into the show. And I think it's quite clear that Pat as well as potentially Jake, a lot of the characters are that sort of unreliable narrators. Right? We don't necessarily take everything they say on face value, but it also leaves it up to interpretation because we could say it's supernatural. We could just say it's a glitch, but I would say personally, I would say that Daisy in some sort of supernatural
KT: form is trying to contact Jake. Oh.
Oti: So you think there's some supernatural aspects to this? Oh.
KT: Did you just did you just entrap me? Mhmm. Who am I, Bodie? Go and check out our episode of The Wire, and I'm sure we'll cover We Own This City. Right?
Oti: Oh, for sure.
KT: Nice. Oh, you son of a bitch. Apparently, I'm in.
Oti: Yeah. I think the Daisy character is
KT: How do you explain it? How do you explain it? If you don't believe
Oti: Bloody problematic.
KT: Alright? If you don't believe in the dogma, how do you explain it?
Oti: You know how
Oti: you get these conspiracy theories and there'll always be dead giveaway that this fucking thing will crumble, your theory? Daisy is that thing in this where I feel like it's not a supernatural aspect at all, but I can't find a reasonable way to explain Daisy away unless Jake is also going through some shit and I'm not so sure he is.
KT: Oh, I see.
KT: I see what you're saying. But just for clarification, did he only ever see Daisy through the VR set? I can't remember that.
Oti: Yeah. Only through the VR.
KT: Okay. It was only through the VR. Okay. So that that definitely refines potential fairs. I guess we'll continue to sit on our theories. Right, Oti? Mhmm. How do you think about the friendship between Terry and Laird?
Oti: I love it. I like he's a sad man.
KT: What was he saying when they were when Terry was texting with Catherine? Was it hell yeah or something?
Oti: Yeah. Or f yeah. F yeah. Just just
Oti: why not? He Terry needed a push. We wouldn't have gone to the to the vineyard otherwise.
KT: Wow. Okay. Well, I wanna talk about Rosemary. Like, I know we've talked about her in proxy to Pat. However, she is her own character. And, again, I'm bringing another comparison parallel. Ethan Hawke's Sinister. You know, there there is an element of without spoiling, but there's an element of, like, Murders in the Building, and I'm not talking about Selena Gomez and the two old fellas.
KT: What do you what do you think is the story there? Do you think it's just clear cut that she was a Stepford wife that glitched or do you think there's more to the story?
Oti: I don't think there's a Rosemary and that's my point.
KT: Oh, so you're eliminating
KT: everything.
Oti: Yeah. I don't think there's a Rosemary. I think this is the figment of of Pat's imagination.
KT: Okay. Oti Aykroyd Murray. Are you demon busting?
Oti: I am. I'm just thinking, like, everything does with everything Pat's going through, I just don't feel the supernatural aspect makes sense because I know that with her blackouts, with everything that she's having to endure, she's in the center of everything. I just think Rosemary is is is an imagination,
Oti: and that's it.
KT: But you also acknowledge that you can't explain Daisy.
Oti: No. No.
Oti: That's the that's the chink of the chain. We'll find a way though.
KT: I suppose. How interesting that usually, you're fine with keeping things open ended. So the fact that you've come to a conclusion
KT: already in season one is very interesting.
Oti: And that's why I'm looking forward to season two. Prove me wrong. Like, it's this is and this is what we have.
KT: Who do you think you are? Ronny Chieng?
Oti: It's like with From where I was, oh, let it just be sci-fi because if it wasn't, I would have been just bloody pissed.
KT: Well, maybe you're the one that's emotionally stuck then.
Oti: Maybe I am.
KT: Speaking of emotionally stuck, I wanna address Christianity.
Oti: Jesus.
KT: Exactly. So there there was, you know, I I guess wherever there are demons, there are also angels if you'll pardon the booba clat, Chet Hanks dad pun. Oh, wow. You're welcome. You should all watch Z Way. Thanks. He fucking loves Z Way.
Oti: The Chet Hanks e j v is the wildest thing you'll see this year. Chet Hanks,
KT: Charlamagne tha God, Kendall from Succession. But I I wanna talk I wanna talk about the presence of it because it wasn't just there are demons in the area, and that's kind of I wouldn't say Valerie was one dimensional, but she was definitely sharpshooting on a particular instance, and that was, I guess, warding off the evil spirits.
Oti: Also, maybe maybe the hallucinations that
Oti: Pat had were influenced by, but it seemed like there was local lore that there were there was steps, Bee Gees, tragedy in the house. Yeah. And I think Pat can just carry that and run with it as a story and build on it, you know. Oh, ghost, Rosemary, the person who died is in my head and she's telling me to do all these crazy things and she's writing my book. Yeah.
KT: Wow. Okay. Interesting.
KT: Interesting. But it goes beyond that and you also see Gaynor having, you know, I guess that sort of comfort. Right? And even if you look at it, especially having Pat as a mother, there was a lot of uncertainty. And unfortunately there wasn't a lot of moments for vulnerability with her mom. And it makes sense. It makes sense that even in this technological Neil deGrasse Tyson age, that there would be people that still cling to religion. Christianity specifically. So I just thought it was an interesting sort of element.
KT: Do you do you think we're going to see more of the dogma in season two, or you think it's just gonna be used as a warm fuzzy blanket?
Oti: Probably a blanket.
Oti: I'm not sure I wanted to go that direction where it becomes a bigger part of it,
Oti: but we'll see.
KT: We will see. Actually, last thing I wanna say before we finish up, Gaynor, it was revealed that she's pregnant. Mhmm. We're not Roe v. Wading right now. So I I guess the assumption is that she's going to keep the baby?
Oti: I guess so.
KT: Okay. What are your thoughts? Do you think she's going to run off with Ryan in LA?
Oti: I think something's gonna hinder it. It's not gonna happen.
KT: I know, but I feel like this is her one chance at having
KT: some sort of life, like some sort of life that she can own and and have control in in the menial sense of however we can control our lives. Like, I feel like this is really a good chance for her to try.
Oti: If it wasn't a TV show, I'd be like, yeah, but
Oti: because we love drama, that's not gonna happen.
KT: We do love drama,
KT: but we don't start it, friends and lovers. Thank you friends and lovers for joining us another week in the For Your Reference household. We're gonna finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference,
KT: Oti.
Oti: I'm gonna reference Hereditary because it was always at the back of my mind when I started watching this, and I always like to draw parallels. So go right ahead. Toni Collette. Oh, amazing, amazing, amazing of an actor. Just brilliant to watch.
KT: I don't have any kisses, those were all for Toni. I will reference Fatal Attraction. Okay. But I won't reference Teran. That's for anyone that understands the reference. If you would like to throw Oti and I your reference on Twitter and Instagram, we're @ForYourRefPod. Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also on question everything podcast if you like to leave a rating and review. And we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.
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