Saltburn, Dream Scenario, Cat Person, Platform 7 & Smothered

Full transcript of Saltburn, Dream Scenario, Cat Person, Platform 7 & Smothered.

0:00KT: Well howdy ho friends and lovers and if no one has, welcome to 2024. Welcome, welcome. It's another week in the For Your Reference household and it is another year. We are very close to our fifth year, Oti. Oh we are indeed. It's a very exciting time. We're potentially already exhausted at the schedule we already have.

0:22KT: but welcome, welcome friends and lovers. Hopefully you had and are still having a restful break and, uh, we wish you were fruitful and a gorgeous, just as voluptuous as Ella Gorge's erotica. Yeah,

0:39KT: we're going to do something a little different, I guess, some residual stocking fillers if you're nasty, in the For Your Reference household, let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your hosts KT and Oti and before we even get started, Oti, congratulations on getting quoted, uh, in Stuff's article about things to watch.

1:06KT: Bam, that's how we roll, right? I keep the Google alerts alert friends and lovers. so this probably is the first one. and it was for Bookie. this will be in the future, but very soon and very imminently, Oti is going to get a break from my nasty mouth because I'm about to get my wisdom tooth removed.

1:26KT: And I've got the spiciest, muy caliente takes before. you're not allowed to respond because I'm not allowed to respond with my mouth takes.

1:38KT: Are you ready? Oti, ready? we do have like re reviews for like screeners and that sort of thing. Dream Scenario. The interviews would have come out already. but we're going to leave that.

1:49KT: We're just going to talk about the things that we watched, over the break. You know, sometimes we do watch things outside of requests. So, Oti, and I guess we'll see how delicious and how nasty and how tasty it is.

2:01KT: but we've got a mixture of things in saying that, we did receive a screener. thank you to the team at Binge.

2:08KT: This is a UK show and it's called Smothered. Oti, you want to hit us off with your first impressions? Yeah, I will. I hope it's about Blair Underwood. How are you supposed to be dating when you've got the finest daddy around? But anyway,

2:22Oti: Oh my word. Sammy and Jonny's from a strategic fling to unexpected depth offers intriguing character development.

2:29Oti: While familiar in places, it crafts a heart warming, reflective narrative.

2:33KT: Wow. See, this is why you get the quotes, Oti,

2:39KT: mine's very quick, a delicious entanglement of dating frustrations, red flags, and going with the flow, solid performances and lots of love.

2:48Oti: Yes. We, so when they started watching this, I told you it reminded me of Everything's Trash.

2:56KT: Yes. Phoebe Robinson. Very nice.

2:58Oti: Phoebe Robinson energy all over this.

3:02KT: Is that too, is that to say, and I guess if I can quote, not just Lena Waithe, but hallelujah, kallelujah, Daniel Kaluuya, as well as Jodie Turner-Smith in Queen & Slim, Friends and Lovers.

3:13KT: We have an episode, reviewing Queen & Slim, about why do black people always have to be excellent? Can we just have mediocrity is this, is this denoting? Cause when you said Everything's Trash, that reminded me of how frustrating it was watching Phoebe, like just meddle her way through life. I guess the positive, positive sort of stereotype is black people would have moved that way.

3:36KT: But sometimes

3:38Oti: they do.

3:39Oti: We can have messy black people out there and Sammy is not an exception. Bloody hell. She frustrated me in a lot of the things that she did and granted that's her character, right? And it's a journey to see how she grows, but it's slow and arduous to a point. There's a lot of growing pains. Exactly.

4:04KT: I felt pain.

4:06KT: also, uh, our fellow from Plebs. It was really nice to see him in this show. It's weird seeing him

4:13Oti: in, in a serious role, like him being a father.

4:18KT: Yeah, no less, a responsible one as well.

4:21Oti: Oh, who thought of this thing called acting, eh?

4:24KT: I know. Right. but definitely let me put some respect on his name because we do love Plebs.

4:29KT: I don't know. Will we ever get to a point where we cover Plebs? Maybe. Yeah, Jonathan Pointing, that's a British name if I've ever heard was Simon Pegg's face.

4:43KT: I really enjoyed this Aisling is in this, show as well. I think her show was called This Way Up. that kind of goes in the category of like, I understand life is hard, but this is very hard to watch.

4:56KT: but do love her also in Trollied as well. You know, see, we're very learned friends and lovers. We understand how it works in the great Britannia world. But yeah, it was really, I don't know. It definitely makes me grieve for those that are dating. it was, it was a frustrating watch, but it was frustrating because we wanted to see Sammy and people win.

5:18KT: Yeah.

5:18Oti: Oh, for sure.

5:20KT: And it was so easy to watch too.

5:22Oti: Easy to watch. And you get Blair Underwood with his Jamaican accent.

5:27KT: Is it, was it Jamaican or was it British?

5:29Oti: It was, it was a mixture, there was something in between there.

5:32KT: Hey, an oiled up Blair Underwood can do anything. And that's how, even if he's not oiled up, that's how I see him.

5:41KT: Yeah, it was

5:41Oti: British because I remember I was like, it's bleh. And I would try the British accent.

5:47KT: I think you're the one that pointed it out to me.

5:50Oti: Oh yeah. Like you get a lot of fun with this and or moments where it offers really good hijinks moments and the frustration would be there because Sammy, it will be summing.

6:04Oti: Yep. But overall, a very good, enjoyable show.

6:08KT: Loved it. Loved it. the next film that we are going into, thank you to the team at Nsco. Uh, we have Dream Scenario. yeah, there's definitely discussions to be had. again, the interview would have come out already. yeah, I had the chance to speak to the director, uh, Norwegian director.

6:30KT: the reason why I say that is because I feel like there are European sensibilities in this film, but we'll get to that. Kristoffer Borgli, uh, give us your, you know, initial sort of imaginings,

6:44Oti: Hmm. Dream Scenario offers a distinct satirical narrative with Cage's commendable performance. Ooh.

6:51Oti: Intriguing, but somewhat loses momentum in its final act.

6:54KT: Interesting. And I don't disagree either. The very meta reference of Nicolas Cage and the melding of dreams sits nicely in the Venn diagram of pop culture, interesting exploration of themes, including cancel culture, dream monetisation, but the most compelling in my opinion was a protagonist wanting to be wanted and seen.

7:22KT: Oh, nice. Again, this is my favorite Nic Cage film. grounded Nic Cage, and I will continue to say it, I will stand on that statement. I just really enjoyed it. I think there is, you know, even going back to the themes of, you know, being an adult and, and that sense of loneliness or, you know, sort of moments of depression.

7:44KT: this is kind of feeds into that. As well, I really appealed to films that address the core of that. and I think, you know, for some of us, for most of us, for all of us, for not many of us, there is that want to be seen in some sort of way, you know, especially if your family tell you that you can't sing and you go on American Idol and embarrass yourself, it's still some sort of attention, you know?

8:12KT: And I think. You know, even, even the least sort of, wanting to be popular or influentiary, I think a lot of us can relate to that. Oh, for sure. And I think even, in my notes, he said something along the lines of, Oh, as long as you don't portray me as some sort of idiot. you know, and, and, and people want to appear a particular way, even if that's not how they necessarily are.

8:36KT: I think, there was also another quote describing him of perfectly average and nobody. Right. Yeah. but yeah, so what, what did you feel about the film?

8:45Oti: It captured my imagination and my interest very early on.

8:50KT: So when Gene Wilder was singing about a Pure Imagination, you were imagining Nic Cage in your dreams?

8:56KT: Of course. I see Cage every damn day. Was your scene cut from the film? Yeah.

9:04Oti: Uh, it was intriguing seeing his journey and the moments where I felt. You know, this happening to someone who felt though, uh, you know, average at best and the motivations of wanting to be seen was there and was founded quite nicely, but once it started sort of falling off for me was every decision he made afterwards, it felt as if.

9:31Oti: We didn't know Cage as a character up until that point and everything that they portrayed him as felt like it was just discarded to the point where he made, he made this mistake, which turned everything to its head. And from that, I was like, it just didn't make sense how everything unfolded afterwards.

9:55KT: And you know, what's really interesting because, in interviews, uh, you know, the director Kristoffer, he would talk about how this. I also referenced in the interview that, you know, Theo, our executive producer dog, he ate and probably was the best. He ate my book of Freud about the interpretation of dreams, right?

10:17KT: there's so much of like, I guess what you could imagine to be like the origin of this film or the spark or the idea of this film. But I guess just for you, if you're not aware, the, the core sort of idea that was sparked for this film was professors at universities saying whether the allegations were true or not.

10:41KT: Or maybe they're just lying. They're making it up. They're making it up. So that was the core of why this film was made. Of like, oh, it's all in their dreams. They're imagining things. And I was like It, it was interesting that that became the core of the film. But I'm not a filmmaker, I guess. but I guess it kind of Explains what you're saying about how it kind of ran away from where it started, if that makes sense.

11:05Oti: Yeah, even the relationships felt, I felt that they discarded a lot of the building that was done. Yeah. at some point. I thought it was something intimate and they were within the same headspace at the very least, but as the movie progressed, it felt, Oh, every decision that was made, be it out of jealousy or whatever, just didn't feel intricate enough to the characters that I felt,

11:33KT: Oh, nothing will stick.

11:35Oti: Yeah, it just felt very random at best. And I really wanted to love this through, you know, up until the end, but the dips in narrative just didn't resonate with me to that point.

11:49KT: Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I think. It's exactly what you said. Like instead of being the core, it kind of expanded out and kind of dissipated in some set, like some instances.

12:06KT: I've definitely felt that as well. especially when the material was there, it's Nic Cage. what do you feel about the concept of dreams? Because. I kind of wish we had like focused on that a little bit more. you know, friends and lovers, we do have a full review episode on the first season of The Sandman.

12:23KT: Uh, I guess that's another instance of exploring dreams and that sort of thing. and you know, obviously there's like, you know, periphery of like Freddy Krueger as well, and how much you can really go full balls to the wall to it. do you think it was fully explored as much as it could have been?

12:42Oti: No, it felt very Purge-y, you know, when you're watching The Purge and the myriad of things that people can do that only stick to one or two things.

12:50Oti: Yeah. And with this movie,

12:51KT: Drain the corporations, motherfuckers. What are you doing? Stabbing each other. I'll be like, Jonathan May just come on, man. Stop fighting, man.

13:01Oti: Yeah. We have this phenomenon where this dream thing, and it just felt very contained. And at the end of it was just be man be manning out there.

13:13Oti: Yeah. I'm like, uh, that doesn't really connect with me. Yeah. It doesn't, it doesn't set. In as much as they've paved or they've, they've dis, dis, displayed Cage's, this sort of character, and things that would motivate him to make these decisions, at the end of the day, he pushed himself against the wall and everything else just crumbled down.

13:37Oti: Yeah. And it was like,

13:38KT: mm. I guess the last sort of thing that I want to address, and I definitely want to get your thoughts on is, cause I also asked Kristoffer this question as well, and his answer was very interesting, but I want to ask you, do you feel like Dream Scenario was an American film with European sensibilities, or do you think it was a European film with American sensibilities?

14:03Oti: to be honest, I, I felt it was very Americanized through and through, I think,

14:10KT: but I felt like the dialogue and the way the story was told was European, but they put American people in it because even the wife, she made a comment saying, Oh, we usually don't like to bring attention to ourselves. It's not in our culture.

14:24KT: And I was like, that is very American for everyone to see you. So that's more what I meant. It's not all the way to like Okja also friends and lovers. again, you know, if it's a downtime, new start of the year, if you've got time, you we've also got an Okja, review episode, but you know how we talked about how Okja didn't necessarily work because it was literally like.

14:48KT: Uh, a literal translation from Korean to English and the, you know, the hamming of, Jake Gyllenhaal and all that sort of thing. I feel like maybe this would have played better for me if it wasn't, if it didn't have an American cast, it could have been an English, but it just felt different. Like if you compare like Mad Heidi, for example, but you know what I mean?

15:10KT: Like it allows itself to the full identity.

15:16Oti: Yeah, like to me, if you asked me a movie that I felt had European sensibilities was Another Round.

15:24KT: Hey, but imagine if they put American like actors into that, I guess there was a, there was an, there was a cynicism in dialogue that I don't think you really see in American films.

15:39KT: Does that make sense?

15:41Oti: Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. I guess I just, I think me just by the virtue of just seeing Nic Cage and everything with his tendencies, he's such a ubiquitous character in the bloody movie that felt Everything that he touched and everything that he did was Americanized.

16:00KT: And I have the quote here, as long as you don't portray me as a dream, because it's like, even, even the idea of someone dreaming about him.

16:10KT: As a loser was shattering to him. You know what I mean? And that was kind of where I was grappling. And then you think of like The Lobster, for example, like that's a great European film that allows itself to have those things, you know? but anyway, so let's move on.

16:27KT: This is kind of getting into just things that we watched outside of reviewing requests, uh, Cat Person, which, you know, there were screenings with StudioCanal, but it was a busy time.

16:38KT: So we were able to watch it after.

16:41Oti: Yeah. Cat Person keenly dissects the gender divide and our perilous virtual projections. It captivates, though navigates through intermittent narrative lulls.

16:52KT: Hey, I love that. Yeah. I want to hear more about the gender divide. Uh, my professor in gender studies.

16:59Oti: I almost stepped in.

17:02KT: It's about to get intersectional up in this bitch. Friends and lovers. While the story dulls at moments, it's the very real feeling of how quickly as a woman you can go from feeling relatively safe to question how to get out of a situation away from someone. There seems to be a more sinister truth looming, but I appreciate how this was captured.

17:24KT: Nice. I also just want to say You know, there's been allegations like about Nicholas, and it was hard to not feel the themes of that in this film. Like the, like, like Ansel Elgort and all that sort of like young Hollywood that prey on like. so watching this film, I'm like, this is cause, oh, actually no, it might be a plot point, but there is a very significant age gap.

17:52KT: and there's a lot to dissect in this. Obviously we don't want to spoil it. again, this was one that passed us by because we were so busy. We weren't able to make the preview media screening. But I'm glad we took the time to watch it. I think it resonated more than say Promising Young Woman, for example, in regards to the safety of women, you know, It kind of highlights dating and how scary dating can be.

18:22KT: Oti and I have been together for eons since we were baby amoebas, like before the time of like online dating and stuff. But, so from that point of view, I don't necessarily resonate with it, but even just being out in the public. And being approached by men and having men speak to me, like it gets very gross.

18:43KT: And there are moments where I'm aware of how vulnerable I can be in situations and like trying to find a way out. And I think, you know, especially in the first third of this film, it was captured so accurately on how that can feel, whether it's broad daylight, whether it's, you know, in the middle of the night and that sort of thing, I really appreciated the way.

19:04KT: Like distilling the essence of how that can feel. And I guess from your point of view, how did it feel potentially not having the experience, but seeing it portrayed through the film, how, how did that, did it work for you? I guess the question.

19:19Oti: Yeah. I think aspects of that was very harrowing and just seeing the sort of dynamic between the characters and how everything.

19:30Oti: Sort of happened though. Things. I don't know. Like you said, we've been together way before internet dating Has caught up like it is right now Uh huh, but that just looked really scary to me And I think it was very well portrayed because you had Margot, you know wanting to pursue something further with Robert even though the aspects where she didn't feel safer to put in certain parts And, and the need for voicing concern and all of that, I think they portrayed it quite well.

20:10Oti: Yeah.

20:10KT: How it could, how on the outside it could feel like nothing, but it's still not nothing.

20:15Oti: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think they use very, sort of good techniques to convey that. Yeah. Outside of, and here's like sort of my qualm with this. What is the movie outside of the themes that are being covered because the themes are important.

20:33Oti: You can't really go wrong with trying to convey that it's more sort of the narrative itself and or certain aspects of, you know, movie is a storytelling device where we get Robert and his motivations of doing this, you know, dead planted seeds at the start of how this is all going to transpire. Which we all got.

20:57Oti: Mm-hmm, you know, it, it was nothing at the end of it where we felt like, Ooh, surprise motherfucker, you know, Oie, dos Doakes didn't come out of nowhere to, to make sure that we were, we were kindly surprised, but to Dexter

21:09KT: reference, friends and lovers.

21:13Oti: But there was still moments where I felt like it just felt short of.

21:17Oti: It's engaging me from purely a storytelling perspective. Yeah. I was like, okay, I lost my sort of attention halfway through for a little bit and then came back and that's not something you want to experience.

21:33KT: I agree. I agree. There were definitely some dull moments. there were some frustrating moments, but they were also understandable as well in our world for connection and for roaming, But yeah, there were definitely some dull moments in this film, but I would also say I really appreciate it And I give grace to the fact that it didn't feel exploitative.

21:55KT: It didn't feel salaciousness to the point of Exploiting Margot, for example It was like if you was told but it was from the other side of you not from Joe's point of view No, but I really appreciate it and I think In this world of anyone can tell any story, which I don't agree with that premise at all.

22:18KT: and I always referenced She Said, in, in the safety in which the film was made and it was, it's still able to connect without it being more worse.

22:30Oti: Yeah. Not good. Chew in the theaters while we're watching. She, She Said,

22:35KT: I tried with my loud whispers and my crunching on my popcorns. can I still have joy?

22:40KT: Is that okay? Oh, you could have joy. Is this part of your gender studies that women can't crunch popcorn in the cinema? Yup.

22:48KT: yeah, it was, it was a quiet watch. It was a quiet watch and we don't need to spend time connecting the reasons why, but I did think of, and I do miss Domhnall Gleeson and the show, The Patient. That looming sort of, yeah, well, let's move on.

23:08KT: Uh, this is a bit of a show that came out of nowhere and we gobbled it all the way up.

23:14KT: Platform 7.

23:15Oti: Oh, Platform 7 starts strong with an intriguing premise and stellar acting, though its predictability dims the initial intrigue. Solid with captivating moments.

23:27KT: Hey, we love the emphasis. Yes. Jasmine Jobson offers range and a more tender performance in Platform 7. The tone of the show is wrapped in warmth and care.

23:42KT: However, the approach to heavier themes, including suicide and predatory behavior, could have been given more dimension. Yeah. Well, let's go off of, I guess your quote or your initial impressions, because I obviously have a lot to say, but we obviously won't spoil it. I am going to put a trigger warning.

24:00KT: I will put resources as well. We're not going to get into graphic detail, but there are some things that I want to talk about, in regards to suicide. I don't think we're going to talk too much about predatory behavior because that Like that could be a whole spoiler in and of itself. but also a trigger warning for predatory behavior as well as suicide.

24:20KT: Okay. Oti, kick us off.

24:22Oti: Heavy themes, heavy themes galore in this show. I'm not sure we went blind with the show. We didn't know what it was about. I think the synopsis just mentioned something quite generic.

24:33KT: It's because Jasmine Jobson was on the poster.

24:36Oti: Enough said, right? so the first episode I really enjoyed.

24:43Oti: Yeah. I think it set the premise quite well. Uh, Jobson's performance is amazing. Even the supporting cast. And I had a lot of, with me, I try and. Not intentionally, but I sort of try to predict whatever's going to happen or try and sort of unfold the mystery. And I set out and I was like, Oh, cool, this is going to happen.

25:07Oti: And I'm pretty sure we'll see that. And by episode two. Yeah, fair enough. Most of it had gone through like that. And it's not, it's not taking away from the show when that happens. It's more, it's more what they're going to do from that point, then sets the tempo of how I feel about the show at the end of it.

25:30Oti: Uh, it's well and good, you know, having all this heavy themes and how you're going to uncover it and what happens and, you know, the story behind all of it. You know, we, us trying to connect with Jobson's character and how all that unfolds. And the first two, I think they really did a good job with that. And then when they started expanding out the universe a bit more and bringing in a lot more people, then I felt the connection started getting more.

25:59Oti: Like stay at the core. Yeah, like we started getting diluted a little bit more. the aspects of the show where I felt. They lingered too much on certain aspects where it could have been a bit more tighter and that sort of distract, detracts you from, you know, fully buying into it, but overall it's four episodes and, you know, I can't sit here and say that it being four episodes is quite short for such a show.

26:30Oti: I know if this was Netflix or any other thing, you know, probably in six, eight, so I appreciate it. Uh, but still the aspect that it could have been a bit more tighter and just to give the character a bit more room, at least to deliver that path or at least from moving from point A to B a bit faster. but yeah, I think it was quite enjoyable in terms of.

26:55Oti: Seeing how everything unfolds, despite the themes that it uncovered, I felt the very serious things being talked about, that felt out of nowhere, like it, like I wasn't prepared for it. Yeah. And. While I was talking about that, I was like, Oh, bloody hell. yeah.

27:18KT: Like you can't just, yeah, you can't just like casually drop it and then not really fully address it meaningfully, especially in a four episode sort of arc.

27:28KT: I, I get what you're saying. Yeah.

27:31Oti: And I think what we were talking about was covered out quite quickly and it was wrapped up. And I was like, Oh, okay. Anyway,

27:39KT: it's like, what the fuck do we do now? It's just trauma dumping on us. And it's like, well, I don't feel like we're done here. Like what am I supposed to do with all of this shit that I need to unpack?

27:54KT: but put me in coach. I'm ready to go. I agree exactly with what you're saying, but obviously don't want to spoil it, but it's not the main plot line, I guess, is what we would say. I loved when we focus exactly what you're saying, like, I love when we focus on the core and the heart of the show, which includes Lisa, but we also have like some subplots, with a cash's character, just a great, like, I'm really excited to like follow a lot of the cast that we were introduced to, in this show.

28:23KT: So when it focused on the core, when it focused on the heart. there were also some really like emotional moments, especially when, again, like talking about safety as a woman, or even, you know, being in, you know, relationships or situations where you're not safe. yeah, like I, I really appreciated the way that it was done because these stories are important.

28:49KT: whether fictional or not nonfiction, but it needs to be done with care. And I really feel like the show was done with care. What I will say though, is, and I guess it's a broader zoom out lens. It's not a critique specifically on this show. However, it was present in this show. you know, more and more as we continue this podcast, we're having, uh, Really in depth conversations about hard to talk about topics.

29:18KT: And one of those includes suicide. and again, not into graphic detail, but what I will say is it was a bit frustrating to watch in this show, constant. Stereotypical dialogue that we hear time and time again of, and it might be true as well, but you know, the dialogue of, Oh, you know, like it doesn't make sense.

29:46KT: Like, why would it be them? They had everything going for them. which might be a way of, closure, which might be a way of healing for those, that love the person. But it also kind of perpetuates if everything is all goods in your life, you're not going to be at that point. And I don't care for that.

30:06KT: I feel like from as an audience, but also as people, I feel like we've evolved past that conversation. Right. True.

30:17Oti: yeah, you don't know what's going on in someone's life, the job, they could be, you know, out there in public being the life of the party, but that doesn't mean shit. Yeah. yeah, it's, I think talking about that misconception of, Ooh, they had everything in their lives, so surely not.

30:39Oti: Yeah. It doesn't happen that way. Cause then what does that do? It doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. I think though, it's good that we're talking about it. It's once we start sort of start demystifying it and having serious discussions about it, then, you know, the more awareness is raised and all of that. but yeah, I'm with you on that.

31:03KT: there weren't necessarily ha ha hee hee moments in this show, but there was levity through the connection of the human experience. And I, I hold a lot of weight in that. And I put a lot of currency in the ability to distill, I guess, the healing through tragedy. And the, the soberness of confronting, you know, the, the, I guess the sort of, the, the, the heavier sort of parts of the human experience.

31:33KT: I, I really enjoyed this show. I would strongly recommend friends and lovers. I would say what's with care, it is made with care. but yeah, definitely just be conscious of the themes that will be in the show.

31:50KT: Yeah, let's move on. Ooh, it's getting spicier, Oti. I wonder how long this will be. I, I anticipate it will be the longest in this, uh, potential, uh, in this particular Ref Max.

31:59KT: I definitely have a lot to say, we're not going to spoil anything, but I still have a lot to say outside of the spoilers, actually, we're talking about murdering on the Barry Keoghan dance floor. This is Saltburn, take it away, Oti.

32:17Oti: Saltburn mesmerizes with its exploration of class and friendship, offering engaging storytelling over mere shock.

32:25Oti: It revises then reaffirms initial expectations, creating an intriguing yet somewhat unsatisfying inevitability.

32:34KT: Okay. And do you get off on the unsatisfying inevitability? No. Okay. All right. All right. can you just quickly sign to me what you're rating it out of five? 3.5. Same. High five. No, I'm giving it a three, actually.

32:55KT: I lied. If you want, you can take it out of the main edit or you can leave it. okay. Okay. Okay. There's so much to, no, I, do I just read mine? Read yours. Go for it. Okay. I'm getting frazzled. I'm getting frazzled. A Keoghan and unsatisfying inevitability from Oti does it for me, friends and lovers. With audacious films like Visitor Q.

33:21KT: It is possible to effectively weave salacious themes with substance. While Saltburn demands post film reaction through shocking scenes or gorgeous shots, I grapple to find the emotional core of this film.

33:37KT: That's a three. That's not a 3.5.

33:39Oti: Wow. I don't know. Like we talked, we talked about this while watching the movie and after the movie and during the movie, you'd raised the qualms and all that granted, you can't fault how this movie is shot. It's beautiful, beautiful, beautiful,

33:59KT: respectfully who cares? Okay.

34:03KT: Sorry. But who cares? Who cares? Who cares? Who cares? People can sit outside and look at a fucking mountain. Then who cares? Sorry. Sorry.

34:16Oti: Oh dear. it's shot beautifully. the acting from the stellar cast, as you'd expect was good as well. Right?

34:28KT: Yes, I agree. But who cares

34:32Oti: now to the storytelling? You said it lacked heart.

34:37Oti: I felt

34:39KT: I, it lacked a pulse and I think Barry Keoghan's character liked it that way.

34:45Oti: Wow. Woo.

34:48Oti: I was bought in. And remember, remember when we started. When it started, once Oliver, you know, saw Felix and I was like, okay, I can see where this is going after the first interaction. You're not spoiling it, are you? I'm not spoiling it. And I told you what I thought would happen at the end of this movie.

35:07Oti: Okay. And then everything up until the final act revised everything I had thought that how this would experience, how this would transpire. Only for what I thought to happen at the end felt like I was being betrayed. And so

35:24KT: wait, wait, wait, wait. So like, what are you feeling? How are you feeling? Where are you feeling?

35:29Oti: The first three acts I was all in. I was, I was, I was

35:32KT: first three acts. Okay.

35:35Oti: I was with, I was with Oliver throughout. I was experiencing everything he was. Okay. Well, no, maybe not.

35:44KT: Cue Creep by Radiohead, friends and lovers.

35:46Oti: Maybe not, but I was,

35:48KT: Give me a mathematic equation!

35:51Oti: I, I was enjoying the movie from a story, but especially I thought everything that was happening to Oliver.

35:59Oti: Oh, around Oliver, not only was it, not only was I buying it, they had laid the foundation for everything. You know, even when I was questioning aspects of his motivation, especially with the interaction with the different family members and the friends. Okay. They were still the anchor to who Oliver was at the core and who we were introduced to at the start of the movie that I was holding on to.

36:25Oti: Okay. And it was directing everything that was happening to, to Oliver. And I was like, okay, that makes sense. That makes sense. All in a sense. But then when it comes to the final act, it's flipped on its head. And what I thought Oliver's motivations were and what I thought, and this is what I told you about Platform 7, where if I, if I predict this is going to happen, it's more of, Oh, let me, let me see how we get there.

36:51Oti: And that's the journey. Right.

36:53KT: And that's, but I don't think, I don't think that's a bad thing. I think it's natural to Exactly. Potentially see where it could unfold. Right, exactly. Yeah.

37:00Oti: And I said it's not a bad thing and that's what I enjoy about movies, Uhhuh and watching shows or whatever. But it felt like everything that I had anchored or I had bought into, it felt like it was a misdirect.

37:16Oti: Mm-hmm. Or a misdirect just to be a misdirect. Yeah. And it wasn't anchored to anything, or at least it didn't anchor to anything I believed was. Uh, the core of Oliver's motivations and that in itself made it this movie, not a four. And that's why I give it a 3.5 because I really enjoyed it up until that point.

37:36Oti: I was like, come on now, it's not the ending. It was the motivations up until,

37:42KT: but can I also point something out when you initially started discussing and reviewing Saltburn, you're like, Oh, it was shot. Very well. None of your review talks about that. You know why? Because who cares, no one cares who needs the aesthetic of a film.

38:01KT: If it's not going to be bolstered in any sort of substance, but that's what I'm saying, but you can keep your semen substance.

38:10Oti: And that's why specifically for the shock factor, I said it didn't, it wasn't even part of like, I excluded that because I knew exactly how you felt. And that's why I had to highlight it in my review.

38:23KT: So again, I might be paying for the sins of my thoughts on Saltburn because this is going to be released in the future. So I'm probably writhing in a bed waiting for Oliver to come and find me in my sploosh places and relieve me.

38:41KT: I'm currently in pain right now, but I experienced physical pain watching Saltburn, and I just want to read a tweet that I twot, that I, just let me read it. And we can go back, you know, it is related to Saltburn, but let me just read it. Film criticism is absolutely subjective from our experiences.

39:05KT: And also what criteria we qualify makes a perfect slash great film. The fact that this was my thought process, watching Saltburn waters down the shock and awe for me. And the reason why I say that is because actually, you know, the best way that I can describe Saltburn, you know, how, especially like in Western countries, when you have your literature and your English classes, it's always deeming the Western world, like Shakespeare, for example, he's the MVP goat.

39:39KT: He's the end all. Without acknowledging there are different parts of the world that have, and always will have the vehicle of poetry and the arts, right? You're not the center, my guy. And this is how Saltburn feels. It feels very much as much as I love rest in peace, Robin Williams, as much as I love, Oh, and Ethan Hawke.

40:02KT: Hello, Ethan Hawke. as much as I love Dead Poets Society, Saltburn feels like the film for that stuffy. upper class, never going to touch the grass people. Oh, that's how this feels to me. As if there's any sort of consequence to the everyday marginalized person. That's what this film feels like to me.

40:28KT: Wow. You can cast your Gran Turismo fella, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of the themes in this film are very, very white. Let's be real, and a lot, a lot of these themes are also very, very privileged and a very, very wealthy. So even in your quote, when you talked about, you know, exploring classism, did it though?

40:50KT: Did it really though? Did it really do the thing?

40:54Oti: It doesn't have to explain the lower classes for it to explore classism.

40:57KT: I didn't say that, Mr. Titanic, bro. But this is the, the qualm in and of itself is while I was watching Saltburn, because obviously like I got spoiled, for the particular scene that everyone's talking about, I got spoiled 'cause I saw a tweet about it.

41:16KT: Mm-Hmm. so it was impossible to like escape spoilers, but even then. It was very clear what people's reactions were. People were like, Ooh, horny movie. Ooh. Ooh. And it's like, can we ride into the center plot? No, not in Saltburn. Wow. It's, it's frustrating because while I was watching this film, I know why people are going to like it.

41:43KT: And there's nothing wrong with the, again, going back to, so my experience, I was like, this is too fucking white. I can't deal with these rich fucking white people talking about shit they don't even know about. I love the queer sort of fluidity in this film. I really enjoyed that. again, it was still very white, queer.

41:58KT: Eh oh! Um. So, so that's, that's on experience. Yeah. And then the other component that I was mentioning was just things like a preference point of view, like what's your criteria, my criteria is an aesthetics. I don't care what things look like. Right. And I know that's what a lot of people will say. I don't care.

42:21KT: I'm not to the level of, Hi Ben, we love you Ben from Film Busters. I'm not to the level of Ben when, you know, the whole sort of discourse about sex scenes aren't necessary or they aren't part of the plot. I think a lot of the time it's used as a crutch. but there are moments where Sex scenes, as well as salacious themes are interwoven with substance and they're actually integral to the plot.

42:45KT: And again, that's why I referenced Visitor Q because it's possible to be able to do that. However, the shocking scenes in this film, of course, they're going to garner some sort of reaction. I don't feel like they did anything and you can go and you can go and search sub genres in an incognito browser anyway.

43:06KT: Like, why do you need to watch it in this film? What does it do? I want to zoom out for a second. Emerald is the director of Promising Young Woman. We discussed it on a Patreon. We didn't do it on a main feed, but I found, I found it hard to connect with Promising Young Woman because of the sacrifice to substance for the style.

43:29KT: And that's how I felt with Saltburn. And I'm saying a lot, but you're not, you're not saying anything. So I'm going to throw it to you. And you can pick up what I'm throwing up at you, Daddy Oti.

43:39Oti: I hear you. And I think the one thing that I would agree with you, the shocking scenes didn't anchor what Oliver was about, all his motivations.

43:52Oti: Then once you get to the, once you get to the end point, then the motivations look very, very weird because it goes against every other shock scene or moment that you've seen in the movie. It's just to do it.

44:06KT: Yeah. Then, and there's nothing wrong with just to do it, but who cares?

44:11Oti: I'm with you on that. I'm with you on that.

44:13Oti: I thought it was anchored to everything that I thought would happen or transpire with this, or at least what I believed. Was moving Oliver the way he was, but yeah, but then again, there's duality and people can be more than one thing. So,

44:27KT: well, then why didn't it,

44:29KT: if it could, why didn't it?

44:31Oti: Yeah. Yeah. I hear you. I cannot defend that. but I think overall it's entertainment value is definitely there. Because I enjoyed it. but I can't fault it when it comes to, or I can't disagree with you when it comes to the shock moments and what it played to the overall picture of the movie.

44:55KT: Is this the state of cinema? Shocking scenes and gorgeous shots? Yeah. Keep it babes. I don't need it. What's the point? Who cares? Murdering your asshole. That's what I'm saying. Nah, brahs. Like, honestly, you can keep it. Give me some heart feelings, you know? Is that okay? Yeah, sure is. In this world? Mm hmm. In this soundbitey, snarky, Letterboxd world, is that okay?

45:31KT: Yeah, preach. Well, I enjoyed Candy Cane Lane, but you didn't want to cover that today. So I do experience joy, Oti. Good. Oh, all right. Well, I think that's it. I'm going to go soak in an Oti bath now. we love you. We love you. We love you. If you want to share your thoughts on Saltburn, Oti, we'll take over our socials on Twitter, Instagram, Spill and Bluesky.

45:59KT: We're @ForYourRefPod.

46:00Oti: Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

46:03KT: We're also on If You Could, Why Didn't You Podcast. If you'd like to leave a rating or review, I will see you guys next week. See ya. Bye.