Reservation Dogs – Certified Organtic

Full transcript of Reservation Dogs – Certified Organtic.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household. And I will not be sacrilegious in saying discovered, but I will say Oti, it's the first time we've covered Native American storytelling.

0:12Oti: It is.

0:12KT: It's not the first time we've covered indigenous storytelling. Um, but I'm very, very excited for today. And as the nonreligious, non-spiritual, non colonizing. Stars would align. Happy Indigenous People's Day, otherwise known as Native American Day to our beloved friends and lovers while we are here, this episode is also in tribute rest and love and peace and power to Sacheen Littlefeather. It wasn't long ago that we watched the night honoring her on September 17.

0:48KT: She talked about. Um, you know, a beautiful journey and being ready to, you know, enter the next chapter in the afterlife. And she passed away on the 2nd of October.

1:02Oti: Awesome. Peace, man.

1:03KT: A couple of other things while we are here, friends and lovers, again, we have covered quite a nice collection of indigenous storytelling around the world. On this podcast. While we are talking about the United States, I would say, you know, learn whose land you're on. Whether it's just understanding the people's, um, understanding the greeting, um, and just making sure you are incorporating the actual history, um, of the United States. It's not pretty, but we're also not going to, um, go backwards and make it comfortable for those that are already comfortable. Am I.

1:43Oti: Yep.

1:44KT: Um, while we are here, I would like to shout out IllumiNative. Um, they are native woman led racial and social justice organization. I get a lot of resources from there, so if you're considering getting involved or donating, I would strongly recommend that. Uh, also a trigger warning for our episode.

2:02KT: It's gonna be an amazing episode and we're very excited. Um, but there is a trigger warning that we will be talking about. Uh, youth suicide of Indigenous Lives in general. There's a native crisis text line, so text native to 7 4 1 7 4 1. We'll also put it in the show notes. Thank you. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and young elder lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference Podcast. You got your host, KT,

2:32Oti: and Oti.

2:33KT: Hold onto your heart nards and resist the fornicating catfish as we road trip to California. Nae. yeah. Witness certified organtic Indigenous storytelling with season one and season two of Res Dogs. This.

2:55Oti: Nice.

2:57KT: Woohoohoo. Spoiler. Spoiler, Spoiler. All the feels. All the feels. All the fucking feels. Oti.

3:06Oti: Mm-hmm.

3:07KT: Wow. Wow, Wow. All of the love and splooshes go out to Sterlin Harjo as well as Taika Waititi while we're here, we did do a Reference Degustation foraying into the white TTMs Theisms in his filmography. Um, so go and check out those episodes.

3:25KT: I would strongly recommend Boy and Hunt for the Wilderpeople in particular, Jojo Rabbit, if you wanna laugh, um, in. To this like we do with P Valley, like we do with Rap Sh!t, there's so much quality in front and also behind the screen. So I'm really gonna do a sound off right now for the directors Sterlin Harjo, Blackhorse Lowe, Tazbah Chavez, Sydney Freeland, Danis Goulet, as well as Erica Tremblay. In writers.

3:56KT: So notice that there are, um, actors throughout that are also involved in the writer's room and the directors while we are here. Devery Jacobs also wrote one of the most emotional episodes of the season so far. Sterlin Harjo, Taika Waititi, Tommy Pico, Chad Charlie, Dallas Goldtooth, the Young Warrior, all the Warriors, Devery Jacobs, Blackhorse Lowe, Ryan RedCorn, Erica Tremblay, Bobby Wilson, who we fucking love also in Rutherford Falls.

4:26KT: And while we are here with any sort of power our platform might have, let's try and get Rutherford Falls back on a different platform, friends and lover.

4:35Oti: facts.

4:36KT: Sydney Freeland, Tazbah Chavez, as well as Migizi Pensoneau. In way of cast, we have Devery Jacobs, D'Pharaoh, Lane Factor, who is very, very young and really just stacked up with the rest of the cast. We're not even gonna get there. I'm just very excited. Oti. Paulina Alexis, Dalton Cramer, Zahn McClarnon as well as Gary Farmer.

5:02KT: Ooh, Uh, Res Dogs has, as you all notice, been out for two seasons. Season one was very emotional and we had to loop back by season two. Uh, so it was released in August of 2021 on FX as well as Hulu.

5:18KT: Wow. Okay. So there are some things that I do want to talk about, but before we do that, let's talk about first impressions. Oti, um, you know, Rutherford Falls has come out, um, and we're seeing a lot of, um, emphasis on indigenous storytelling and most beautifully we're seeing it in the United States as well. Um, just gimme all of the feels before watching it. What did you know watching it and where have we found you? My love?

5:45Oti: found it. You're very little about the show. I think you're the one that brought attention to it. You said, Oh, there's gotta be the first indigenous show Running America. And I'm like, Wait, what? The first, how, how Yes.

5:58KT: It's, it's like when we talk about like first black, first trans like, it, like at this point, Come on.

6:05Oti: It felt weird. Um, so I was definitely on board, um, watching it. You know, there's the mixture of hijinks and reality mixed in very well, which I was so much in for the characters, man, you'll fall in love with them. They're really good. You know, you wouldn't tell that this is sort of their first roles. And Wow.

6:26Oti: Like I never expected this show to, to resonate so much. Yeah. And the way it ended in season two just floored me. It floored me.

6:37KT: Wow. Because, you know, um, even with season one it was very emotional. So we kind of waited for season two so we could pick back up the last half of season one. Um, and. Even with the finale, cuz we had it penciled in and I said to Oti, I'm not emotionally ready. Like I know I'm going to be. To be fair, I was getting emotional In every episode it just hits different friends and lovers.

7:01KT: It just hits different. And I am an Australian born Tongan that's feeling all of the feels in this native show. Um, but Wow. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Um, yes, You are welcome. You did introduce SPUs, but I introduced Res Dogs. Um, friends and lovers, we have covered Redfern Now. We're talking about the unceded country that we are currently on. Um, and that was the first, you know, major effort and, and, you know, had a full backing, um, to have indigenous people behind and in front of the screens. Um, Redfern Now. So, and you know, we even covered Mystery Road as well.

7:45KT: I am so glad we. Added this cause we also watched, um, you know, Rutherford Falls. We've also watched Blood Quantum, which is one of my favorite films right now. Um, and I'm very excited to talk about it. Um, while we are here, great film podcast, native film Talk, you should definitely go and check it out. Um, obviously there's a lot more quality and a lot more context, um, and a lot of what we're talking about is also covered on that podcast. So I would strongly how damn me plug another indie podcast.

8:14Oti: Mm-hmm.

8:15KT: Um, but I love, I love, love, love, love, love this show. Um, I think, I think we sit very nicely, um, in the Venn diagram of wanting quality television programming, but also needing it to hit levels that we've never felt and voices that we haven't heard, at least from the pens that should be writing them. Right. So it it, it's not just because it's a native show, you should support it. It's because it's fucking a, is. It's quality. It's quality is quality is quality tech.

8:52Oti: Mm-hmm.

8:53KT: I think, I think at first we, we weren't sure how we felt about Kenny Boy, but he's kind of the best example of an ally, unlike on Bobby Lee's character, Dr. Kang Are you Snagging Oti?

9:07Oti: Oh, always.

9:10KT: Um, you know, uh, I think most recently in Rap Sh!t, but more specifically in P Valley, um, you know, we talk about how important it is to explore, hard to talk about topics, but it's also important that those that are talking about it have the backing and the content, uh, context and the experience because it can be dealt with, with the sensitivity it deserves.

9:35KT: Right. Um, and you know, we will talk about, you know, the topic of suicide, but we're going to, um, talk about some other things first before we get to there. It doesn't need to be a whole theme, but I do wanna make it on this podcast to have a particular sort of spotlight. I wanna talk about indigenous storytelling. Oti,

9:54Oti: I think we've gone through a lot of movies and shows where we see the difference in the people who own the story, telling the story,

10:02KT: Yellowstone, who.

10:03Oti: it hits differently. And with this you could tell, you know, no doubt about it. You know, there's aspect, there's shows we've watch where you, you're like, there's something wrong.

10:13Oti: There's something missing. You know, And, and with this just getting to learn about the lives of. People in the res, they sort of tell it so nicely and inqu. Yeah. You know, and they overlay toward with, you know, humor. Cause it's quite funny as well. Yeah. You know, you find yourself chuckling a moment where you thought, how could they take me from feeling so sad and emotional to busting a gut in the next scene.

10:40KT: Yeah, yeah, yeah. well, well Sterlin Harjo talks about that in interviews, being able to strike a balance and you know how native people are just naturally funny. Um, and, you know, it's, it's a perfect marriage because Taika is very much that way.

10:55KT: Sometimes you go full balls to the wall, Love and Thunder. But there are times where you can get some very tender moments. You know, there was a part of me, cause we already said spoilers and we've already, you know, come all the way to the season two finale. There was a part of me that was hoping we would see Taika dress as the priest talking about how sneaky Jesus is.

11:16Oti: Cause

11:16KT: behind another door of vegetables.

11:18Oti: bit. Mm-hmm.

11:21KT: Um, but I think, you know, I, I don't wanna dwell on it too much, but like for the comfortability of Middle America, I, I think it's easy to talk in abstract about. Why can't we celebrate Columbus? Because that's what I learned in my school without really understanding the violent means and the, the sustained violence that happens to native people because there is so much going on in, in, in the economy in the US.

11:52KT: But then there needs to be an extra consideration and there needs to be sovereignty and there needs to be ownership for native people.

12:00Oti: Mm. Yeah, a hundred percent.

12:01KT: Because home is.

12:03Oti: And

12:04KT: You know, the last thing I wanna say about indigenous storytelling is there's no one else that can do it. And, and, and all around the world there are ancient cultures.

12:12KT: And the way of telling, the way of having story was through arts, was through creativity. Um, and, you know, I, I love that seeing it and, and, and it's being done in a way. That is fucking entertaining. All right, so let's talk about the first theme that I have here. It's res life versus city life. I don't think we see it until, um, Jackie's little Mafia Gang comes along where you kind of see a difference between the res kids and those that might have come from the city, at least.

12:46KT: Jackie was, um, definitely from the city and then coming onto the res. Um, how did you feel of the contrast of it?

12:54Oti: Oh yeah, you could tell the difference, you know? Um, because we even get a situation where we get to see Jackie and Elora sort of trying to run away from the res

13:02KT: Oh man, that was some Coen brothers shit. I tell you.

13:06Oti: It was, And , you could tell that Jackie had experienced so much more.

13:10Oti: Yeah. You know, she, she knew things that were. A dangerous situations where it's look out for, whereas you'd have this sort of naive teen, Elora, where she's like, Oh, we'll just go along. Yeah. You know, there's that sort of, Oh, trusting nature or, you know, you're not, are not really tared by the world until, until you are out there.

13:32KT: Yeah. Trusting a lady with her ranch, dressing in her buns. Um, it kind of reminded me of Mystery Road and the differences that we saw, um, of Aboriginal people living in remote communities and then those that were embedded, like say for example in Redfern Now that were in like a city sort of context, you, you see the difference and, um, It's hard not to notice the, the notes of dis dispossession, particularly in instances where they aren't on the res, for example.

14:05KT: You know, even if we continue on the, the , the Jackie and Elora es escapades, um, you know, we meet Jackie's mom and she's, she's a lot different to the mom and the aunties that we see on the res, and it feels as though, May, maybe I'm injecting more than what was in the scene, but it feels as though there was a bit of like a disconnect, a detachment, a bit of an isolation. Um, because then we come to learn that, you know, her son, Jackie's brother also died by suicide as well.

14:35Oti: Yeah, and, and it's one of those things where, you know, in the res you have that communal feel. You know, your neighbors keep and all.

14:44Oti: It sort of shows just how different they are, you know, and how they've, they've been living their life. And I think one of the better things with this show is sort of juxtaposing just how different they That is. Yeah. Yeah. Like we had Elora's auntie coming back for the funeral and you could tell that she just did it and out. Yeah.

15:03Oti: She couldn't deal with the fact that she had lost her sister. She wanted to just leave.

15:08Oti: She felt that she had lost a sense of purpose and she had to go and find. and the people in the res took that as her running away and living the behind. And her feeling as if she was better and necessarily it wasn't. And I think for me at least, I took it as her needing to just find a way. Mm-hmm. . And even though it's not in the res, them looking down on her. See if she's just sort of abandoned she's got it all made. Yeah. Like

15:33Oti: she, she, she's too good. . I felt that was super wrong, but it's sort of what people do in our communities even

15:40KT: community. Yeah, no, I see it. It's your favorite topic of, you know, individual gain and the community.

15:46Oti: Yeah, but in this, it's not really there because even though she wanted to do her own shit, it was just that she didn't, she felt lost and she needed to find a purpose, otherwise she would've just been dragged under or not knowing what she would do there.

16:02KT: Yeah. And we've seen people in the res who sort of just float around and there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. It's more she just didn't want to be that. I get that. I, I get that. And I think it's, it's hard to, it's hard to discuss it outside of the context of colonization, you know what I mean?

16:20KT: Because obviously it's a completely different conversation. It's hard to talk about the intricacies and, and I guess the divide of a community when you've got outside, you know, eyes that are more than happy to continue a stereotype, So, so there are layers and there are nuances to have if you're ready to have that conversation.

16:41KT: Um, and speaking about having that conversation, you know, um, we, we've touched on suicide and we might, um, talk a bit more, especially in regards to Daniel. Um, but you know, even talking about the disproportion in regards to the actual percentages of, you know, the native population and those that end up in juvie, for example, and we see that explored through Cheese's Charact.

17:04Oti: Yeah. I think that's one of the also things that I love about this, showing how they navigated each episode so

17:10KT: Yeah.

17:11Oti: Where we get to focus a lens on, be it individual characters or a certain theme, and then in the next episode they'll sort of, Okay, let's come back together and let's bring the, you know, the main characters together and navigate with the story.

17:24KT: Yeah. Yeah. And then we get to see Cheese being sent to a home because his uncle got arrested. I also like how it showed how very casually misunderstandings can have lasting impacts for native people, young native men in this particular

17:38Oti: Mm Yeah. Cause there people in there that had stayed there for quite a couple of years.

17:42KT: Well what are your thoughts on Jean? The men that was running the home,

17:46Oti: you could tell like, I don't know. He had, you could tell that he cares to an extent. It wasn't all just, I need to be strict like this because, You know, it's all about getting money or anything like that. We get to see his motives and to why he wanted to run that home because he felt that he was rescued. He felt he had to give back, which is honorable. I can't be bad at that.

17:59KT: but that him talking to Cheese was, it had the Royal Jr residue of talking to someone that says they don't have a fetish, but they do. I just, I, my, my, my SPLU is aligned to their cultural beliefs, you know?

18:28Oti: Fair enough. It

18:31KT: But you're right. The, the product of , the journey that Jean went on, maybe he went on the same trip that Kenny Boy went on. Um, It, it definitely stood to benefit, um, the youth, albeit, you know, there, there was a difference cuz you know, I always say there's nothing wrong with the word female depending on who says it. Um, and hearing the aunties and uncles saying shit asses, it kind of felt a bit endearing. But when Jean was saying it, it didn't feel that way.

19:01Oti: mm-hmm.

19:01KT: You know what I mean? Um, and we meet a lot of, um, a lot of fun characters, um, inside of that home. And Cheese has a lot of, um, you know, some really nice interactions. However, not, not to say that he needed to go through this experience to understand, but he was spouting a, not necessarily ignorant, cuz he was young and he didn't know, but he was spouting a lot of shit of like, I'll just move out of the way

19:30Oti: Riley had some solid advisors as well. Man,

19:34KT: when are we covering Boondocks?

19:35Oti: So, um, but yeah, like he had to experience that. I think he needed to see how different things are.

19:43KT: Yeah.

19:44Oti: And also it's sort of just highlighted how sort of lonely he felt as.

19:49KT: you

19:50Oti: you know, especially with the gang all broken up, you know, no one's really talking, Bear and Elora really speaking that well.

19:57Oti: Willie Jack is into her own shit. It felt that he needed this to, to get that sense of camaraderie, to make friends a bit, to see how he can help engage. So it was good for him, even if it was a bit hard for him to sort of, um, go through it, you know, it's one of those things that it was good for him in the long run I, and I think also, you know, being the baby in the friend group, he was probably insulated from a lot as

20:24Oti: Mm

20:24KT: Um, I, I do love the title Stay Gold, Cheese Boy. I love an Outsiders reference. I'm not sure when we're going to get onto the Tom Cruise. Man, that was, that was a stacked cast. That was an absolute stacked cast for Outsiders. Um, but you know, even talking about, um, you know about the other kids saying he has kids and Cheese is like, plural and he is like, Nah, they're mostly native Oh

20:54KT: man. So many, like obviously like the whole se the whole season, the whole series is so fucking funny. But man, that episode had me ling, I was tickled.

21:09Oti: I

21:09KT: tickled thoroughly, um, in that particular episode. Um, and you know, there's obviously a lot to talk about and a lot to talk about characters. But while we're staying on Cheese, first off, Kudos because we are your, we are booze in a damn corner of the internet, friends and lovers. And I love seeing all of the AE shirts.

21:30KT: You know, cause Cause they were sitting there in, I would say the equivalent of like a wake. And I noticed Cheese had like Attack on Titan T-shirt. And then him saying the prayer with all of the pronouns as well.

21:43Oti: mm-hmm.

21:44KT: you gotta cover your bases. Um, something that I thought was, was very touching and I didn't even realize, and now that we're talking about Stay Gold, Cheese Boy, it, it makes so much more sense now, but when we get to the end of the season two finale Cheese expresses how he was mad at Daniel. And that was surprising to me. And maybe it's just because, you know, Cheese's way of processing just went in because I didn't, I didn't even like register that he was mad at all, let alone at Daniel.

22:17Oti: Yeah. He doesn't really get to show it throughout the whole sort of series per se. You know, we get, Cause in my head I thought, okay, maybe he was just because Daniel's a bit older. Sort of the age Bear, the closer with Elora, Willie. Jack was also close, but we never really got to see. Cheese's connection in.

22:36Oti: And for the last episode in season two to, for him to just go on and see how he looked up to Daniel, you know, he was his hero and he, he, he thought that he could do anything he ever wanted. And for him to sort of end that abruptly by, um, committing suicide was sort of, you know, angered him. Yeah. And like I, you, you were always gonna be there, but now you're not

22:59Oti: Yeah And you could see that sort of hit the other kids quite differently cause they're like, Hey, whoa. Yeah. They didn't expect that at all. Yeah. Um, and one of the better things as well in that scene is him eloquently saying just how Daniel's, um, absence affected everyone in

23:18KT: Yeah.

23:19Oti: Cause been paying attention.

23:21KT: He knows what's going on. Yeah. He knows his friends in. Yeah. You

23:25Oti: They probably couldn't even articulate why or how they felt in that moment. And Cheese just rose up. I was like, Come on, son. That was, That was touching as hell, man.

23:36KT: It was touching. And even when, you know, when they all went into the water, Oh man, oh man, I think we're gonna talk about Bear. Oh man. Because even before they got to the water, and you know, Elora's the one that's been the strongest, you know, even out of the gate, she's been the strongest one out of the crew trying to hold things together, trying to get the money so they could go to California. She was going through the motions and once she got.

24:04KT: She wasn't able to do it and she needed that encouragement. And our, our homeboy Bear pulls up and he shows out for all of us. And a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful line that will forever resonate in my heart chambers was Bear saying to Elora, We're not letting go of him. We're letting go of the pain because we are fucking stuck.

24:27Oti: That was, That was deep. Yeah, that was deep coming from Bear. Very unexpected

24:33KT: Who knew, who knew Bear would be the MVP of the series.

24:39Oti: It's one of those, it's like one of those, um, game shows where, Or like Jeopardy, we were watching and then sort of build up and rock up all this money and then they get to the final question and the winner takes it. Fucking all like, Yeah. Now

24:54KT: Bear. because I, we had qualms with Bear throughout the show, like we we just wanted him to grow up.

24:59Oti: Yeah. And up until that moment it was like, Bro, where was this guy?

25:03KT: Yeah, well, he pulled

25:04Oti: development to boot,

25:05KT: he pulled through. But yeah, if, if we were to take bets, like we definitely would've not put any money on Bear. But wow. He really, he really showed up for all of us, um, in those final moments.

25:19KT: And even when they were all there and they were holding each other and they were feeling the well in, in my language, we call it the mo. Like you feel the sea calling to Um, I knew it was gonna happen, but the moment that Daniel was in that group hug, Oh man, like if I had any more tears, it was all just flowing into the water. It was just flowing back into the ocean.

25:41Oti: Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent.

25:43KT: Let's talk about Elora. Um, how, how did you feel about her journey, especially with Mabel? Obviously that was her episode and it was also the episode that, um, you know, Devery wrote.

25:53Oti: Yeah, she was the glue of the group, in my opinion.

25:57KT: Cheese.

25:58Oti: Not Cheese. I felt

25:59Oti: like Elora was the leader. Bear said he was the leader.

26:03Oti: be wanted

26:04Oti: to be the leader. He was far from it. But Elora held everything down she wanted, she knew what to do and what to say for the group, you know, And especially in the epic, whether she loses her grandmother. And it's very sad. And we get to see, because I really Speaking with Bear at the moment. Yeah. And when Bear goes and shows his support just by being there, but still being angry. I'm like, What are you it's not about you bro.

26:33Oti: What are you doing in this moment? Yeah. You know, he even, he was told like, bra, just tell her.

26:39KT: Yeah, just tell her how much you care in this moment, either or not by guns or by guns, and just move on from that shit. Yeah. He couldn't even do that. I think that's where my frustrations just reached a crescendo No, but we love him now, Remember,

26:52Oti: we, we do love him. But I, I, now that you brought it up, I like those

26:57KT: Well, I was talking about Elora, I wasn't talking about Bear.

27:00Oti: No, but we were talking about a moment where, you know, Elora was really vulnerable and she just needed someone, and Bear wasn't.

27:08KT: Yeah.

27:08Oti: And I expected so much more from Bear. At least she had Jackie, whose presence, you know, she did. She didn't have to say a lot. Yeah. But by her made presence, that's enough for Elora to know me. I, I care. I'm done with you. I'm here. You know, and that's as much as she can ask for.

27:19KT: Um, there, there's a lot I can resonate with Elora in the sense that I, I also feel useful when I am doing the things that need to be done.

27:36KT: It also is a way of avoiding feeling the things that I need to feel. Um, so I definitely related to Elora's character in. It's just like, Okay, this is the mission. We're going to California. But then when she actually got there, she's like, Fuck, I need to be able to process this shit. You know what I mean? Um, so there was a lot of me that, you know, resonated with that and ooh, ooh, friends and lovers.

28:00KT: I, I tell you again, there's. There's something , uh, Connor from Succession. There's something to be unsaid. There's something to be unsaid about seeing, you know, people, native people, indigenous people being able to grieve for their kin. Like it's something that I didn't know I needed to see on screen. It's something.

28:22KT: I didn't realize was even a bit of healing for myself in unspoken ways that will need to be unpacked in a professional manner. Um, but there's something so enriching and edifying and healing, um, about being able to see that and seeing that on television. There's something about having the family gathered, albeit through sad means, like I think, you know, maybe not for everyone, but especially for a lot of Tongan like people, a lot of Pasifika people, you know, there's always the casual joke of there's family that you only see at funerals.

29:00KT: You know what I mean? So sometimes death can unite lives as well. Do you think, I guess if we're talking about all of the arcs, do, do we think that Elora's going to stay in California or you think she's gonna go back?

29:12Oti: I think she'll go back a, she promised Kenny Boy, she'll bring the car back to Jackie's back there, and I think she wouldn't leave like that without Jackie.

29:21KT: Okay. Interesting. I didn't even think of it that way. That's beautiful. Um, let's talk about Willie Jack. You know, , you know, we talked about Cheese cuz you like, I don't know, like the bets would've been on Cheese to be the young elder. Um, but I really think Willie Jack is, is going to take on that role of A. young elder.

29:43Oti: Like I'm the young elder.

29:44KT: Yeah, you're the, you are the young elder that comes to talk to the native kids and they're just there for the coupon. do you watch Squid Game?

29:57Oti: ridiculous.

30:00KT: Willie Jack is solid. I think O Yeah, she's been solid throughout. Apart from one moment where she was really mean to Jackie, I knew you gave her a bit more leeway because she didn't know that Jackie's brother had also died. Yeah, but you don't need to know the back story for you to be catches or or C to someone else who I'm she, the DMX in Romeo Must Die. Her people. Her people, man,

30:30Oti: I just, No, because she's just held herself in such a high regard throughout that I expected so much more from her. So when that moment came where she just got really mean to Jackie, I was like, Wait, what is this? Yeah. You know, I didn't really understand. It felt so it, it felt so out of character. and to the point to her Bear, I was like, What the fuck?

30:52KT: And when Bear says that, you know, you're doing something fucked up now.

30:59Oti: But she's been solid through her. I think seeing her, I think she's, she got one of the first episodes. Um, So episodes. And

31:07KT: but can we talk about the trajectory? Can we talk about the character growth? Because Hunting, that was the episode, Friends and lovers, if you're playing at home, that was the episode that we finished watching and we're like, Shit, we need a break from this show. Like this show, like this show is a lot. And Hunting was the episode that did that to us. It was still so fucking raw. And then we fast forward to the episode nine Offerings. Oh, Oti, I know you got emotional watching Avengers Assemble or whatever the fuck that phrase was.

31:41Oti: Wouldn't, not like

31:44KT: you, You do you boo boo. But when we had Willie Jack and all of the ancestors behind her, Fuck, man. Like I'm telling you, there was, there was something that every, every visual and every emotional component in this show appealed to me.

32:01Oti: Mm. And, and you know, the funny thing is, without Willie Jack and Cheese putting in the effort, I think, I don't think the group stays together.

32:08KT: No. I think they just sort of disperse slowly. Yeah, absolutely. I absolutely agree. I love the role that Willie Jack is taking on because, you know,

32:20KT: um, her tendency to be like, fuck you, I think was easy to just like assume that she was, you know, she was the one that wasn't going a bat or, you know, um, you know, sing out to the ocean that she learned from the uncles on the river. Is it called Free Falling? Mm-hmm. ? Yeah. Um, oh, it's just a fucking delight. Like I've just, I've just enjoyed watching Willie Jack, you know, grow into her own. Um, and there there's a bit more joy there. And, you know, you talk about, if not for Cheese, if not for Willie Jack. Willie Jack's the one that was bringing the letters, you know.

32:55Oti: Yeah, she was.

32:57KT: also, you know, even with the auntie, with Daniel's mom, you know, talking about a gathering, you know, making food, telling them to come over. And I just loved, like, I just loved how effortless it was.

33:10Oti: Me too. She is a very solid character in this. I think even in a, in a not so strong woman, she's still pulled through and you get to see, you can get to see that character growth up until the end. And it's all of those things that you cannot just fault at one bit. Yeah, amazing.

33:28KT: Agree. Absolutely agree. Um, , I wanna talk about the episode Decolonativization. Um, cause, uh, shout Amber Midthunder, who was in Res Dogs. Um, go and check out Prey if you haven't already. Friends and lovers, and also our young elder as well. Um, I cringe. At the thought, but I have enough self awareness to know that if I were ever to go back to Tonga, that would be.

33:57Oti: a hundred percent.

33:57KT: You don't think that would be you going back to Kenya, your motherfucker,

34:00Oti: No.

34:04KT: You tell them to follow you on Instagram. That

34:07Oti: Nah, there's a difference. I, I came here with, um, Quite when I'm older. You brought you

34:15KT: reverse Uncle Ruckus when you get there. you'll be the white Jesus they've been waiting for.

34:22Oti: I'll just be a skin condition at that point.

34:26KT: you know, something that felt, I would even use the word perverse. Something that felt very starkly contrasting in this show was the presence of Christianity.

34:36Oti: Christianity.

34:36KT: Mm-hmm. I think with a lot of, you know, just like a lot of American sort of stories, it makes sense and sometimes it feels like a default to have the presence of Christianity, but like to be on the res and to also be there.

34:52KT: I'm also finding out that I'm Uncle Brownie, the one yelling in a thunderstorm saying, What will your white God do for you? Like, it's good to acknowledge who you are and I'm usually always the grumpy old men, um, in a lot of the shit we cover. And I'm absolutely Uncle Brownie. Mm-hmm. with my explicit VCR tapes,

35:16Oti: and I

35:17KT: out of the trash.

35:18Oti: Wow. Your explicit Mor VCR tapes

35:24KT: I thought that was

35:25Oti: the fact those would look like

35:27KT: I thought that was to be unsaid. Um, I think you're White Steve,

35:34Oti: bro.

35:41KT: If him and Chase aren't like two peas in a pod though,

35:44Oti: Mm,

35:47KT: Ooh. Uh, One of the characters you wanna talk about,

35:49Oti: Let's talk about, Oh, he's our Big.

35:52KT: He's organtic.

35:53Oti: Very organtic.

35:54KT: organtic. Again, there's just such, so many like seemingly small moments, like him passing it to Willie Jack and she's like, What do you want me to do? And he's like, Cook it up. Shit, it's organtic. Like Um, and you know, and I guess, you know, if you want to take it on a aggressive, but you've also got the angle of him and his conspiracy, him and his YouTubes. Mm-hmm.

36:23Oti: I then you've got sort of, we get to um, see a bit of back story for him when he, um, Elora's aunt comes home. You know,

36:30KT: ah,

36:31Oti: we get to see that they were once lovers.

36:35KT: Secret love first.

36:37Oti: Yeah. And you sort of think how

36:39KT: on the res

36:40Oti: Yeah. You sort of think how different would've been, um, if she had stayed back and what his life would look like. Cause he was quite in the periphery most of the time.

36:48KT: Yeah.

36:48Oti: Um, but getting to know more about him, you get to understand and you get to sort of appreciate his effort, you know? Yeah. Even when they're talking in, um, when they're doing like the catch up in a work, you could tell other, other cops are like, Yeah, let's just make fun.

37:04Oti: We're here for jokes. Yeah. It wasn't jokes for him, you know? Yeah. He takes it seriously and good for him. Cause even when Cheese gets sent away, he is the one that rescues him. She's calling them Melissa, a child, Melissa.

37:16Oti: child,

37:21KT: But, you know, Big's got a lot of heart, you know, albeit, albeit witnessing, you know, the hijacking of a flaming flames, um, truck. You know, he sees that they're just kids being kids, you know, And those aren't necessarily things that you lock kids up.

37:38Oti: Nope.

37:38KT: I don't know. Friends and lovers go and go and go and write your own fan fiction of the Purge, but I don't believe that, you know, kids being dickhead and kids being kids should have them locked up for the rest of their

37:49Oti: No. I think it's sort of weird where we are getting stories from America where you get, there's coppers in schools now and kids getting arrested as Ali's age of five. Fuck that nonsense,

38:00KT: Fuck that nonsense. Let's go back to happiness. Let's talk about the warrior that keeps, um, following Bear around.

38:08Oti: Yeah. He is hilarious.

38:09KT: He, he's got jokes, But let's be honest, like the great warriors in history wouldn't be like communicating with me mortals. They would be living in the spirit lands, having their best life, right? It's the

38:25Oti: ones you'd hope So

38:27KT: it's, it's the ones that didn't necessarily dying glory,

38:31Oti: that feels like,

38:33KT: you know, they're the ones that graduated high school, but they still keep showing up to feel.

38:38Oti: Well, whoa,

38:42KT: Cause I'm telling you, I'm telling you, Oti, when I shuffle off this Hamlet mortal coil, there'll be near a haunt in sight. You will never hear from me again.

38:55Oti: Yeah, he, But at least he was truthful about, Well, he tried passing himself over at the start as if he was a great warrior, but we solely get to learn. Just how ridiculous he was. Uh, but I think he brings this levity to the show, especially in moments where Bear needed a bit of guidance because we see him struggling so much at the start. Yeah. And there's so much, he thinks that he, he needs to shoulder alone without talking to. to him, Uhhuh,

39:25Oti: And he manifests as this sort of gateway in which Bear can sort of speak about this stuff a bit more, you know, and make it make sense to him.

39:36KT: Or at least have some sort of outlet at the very least. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely agree. Um, there, there was so much levity and it made so much sense. And I guess while we're here, moza, Meko are very good as well,

39:49Oti: I think the way in America's Got Talent a few years back.

39:52KT: Yeah, absolutely. Um, but man. Wow, wow, wow. Woohoo. Wow. is there anything you would like to wrap up? Be it, uh, predictions, thoughts, feelings, wishes for season three, or just wrapping up your final thoughts to my love

40:10Oti: Predictions for season three Bear stays in LA to find his dad and to mend that relationship. The rest of the guys go back to the res, um, and then we get to see Bear all alone in LA trying to figure shit out.

40:22KT: Okay. Are we seeing, uh, Bear become a rapper

40:26Oti: Sadly not. maybe.

40:29KT: maybe you'll answer our age old question of who does hiphop belong to? Maybe it belongs to Bear, huh?

40:35Oti: Oh, sure does. It's sort of a blank canvas right now because they could go anywhere with it

40:40KT: and we're here for the ride

40:41Oti: A hundred percent.

40:43KT: Ooh, Thank you so much, friends and lovers for joining us another week in the For Your Reference household. And again, reiterating Happy Indigenous People's Day as well as Native American Day. We're gonna finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference. Oti.

40:57Oti: I'm gonna reference Rutherford

40:59KT: Yay. And for those that somehow have watched Res Dogs and not Rutherford Falls, you're gonna enjoy seeing a lot of the actors

41:07Oti: Yeah. There's a bit of crossover.

41:09KT: Yeah. Just like in the the Y oz days, you'll see lots of crossover Cool. I am going to reference, and I hope whenever we can fit it in the schedule, I'm going to reference Blood Quantum.

41:25Oti: Nice.

41:25KT: Because somehow the extremist views are just mad.

41:29Oti: Yeah. I think that will be a very heated episode, but I'm

41:32KT: Stay away, White Jesus Um, if you are doing a, Where's Wally of White Jesus on Twitter and Instagram, we're @ForYourRefPod.

41:43Oti: Write us an email hello@fyrpodcast.com.

41:46KT: We're also on purchase Oti's Young Elder Masterclass for 59 59 Post Gen Handling podcast. If you like to leave rating a review and we'll see you guys next week.

41:58Oti: See. See.

41:59KT: Bye.