Peacemaker – Murn notice

Full transcript of Peacemaker – Murn notice.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household and another minted comic book edition into the reference bibliotheca. Joaquin Phoenix's Joker, Suicide Squad, The Suicide Squad, Doom Patrol, and this tasty, Eagly hug of a podcast. Let's get on with the show. Hey friends and fork lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT.

0:00Oti: And Oti.

0:00KT: Do you really wanna taste it? Sink your teeth into the muscular ass of killer besties, butt babies, and how come my daddy don't want me, man? Choreograph your childhood trauma away with Peacemaker this motherfucking week.

1:12Oti: Woo hoo. Woo hoo.

1:16KT: I am very excited, Oti. We are not scared about the intersectionality of it all. We are not scared to call out tough shit in this world. But my oh my oh my, this is a delicious delightful time to be around. Are you excited Oti?

1:16Oti: I sure am.

1:16KT: Spoiler spoiler spoiler. Eagly, eagly, eagly. I guess just saying it now, we're not really going to address James Gunn and his tweets that got him fired from Disney, but then they got him back in between his DC involvement. If you are curious, if you would like to know

1:52KT: Oti and I yelling into the void about cancel culture, consider our Patreon. We yell about Dave Chappelle for two hours. That's its own extended universe, isn't it, Oti? In regards to this show, this picks up off of The Suicide Squad film. We do have an episode. Make sure you go and check it out. Pull your finger out of your asses, friends and lovers, essentially, if you're not enjoying it because this is pure joy. Shout outs to James Gunn.

2:20KT: This was property IP of Charlton Comics created by Pat Boyette as well as Joe Gill before it was bought by DC Comics. This show in particular released in January 2022 and is available on HBO Max. In regards to cast, we have John Cena. You're ridiculous. I thought you we can't afford the horns? No. The Oti soundboard 0.1 edition. Danielle Brooks. Oh my god. I'm so glad we continued to see her and stuff. As well as Freddie Stroma, and he's a Brittonian. Did you understand? Did you even believe that a Vigilante,

3:03KT: a serial killer with no feelings could be a Brittonian? That's the only flavor of the common. And I guess while we're talking about Vigilante, one of the one of the more earliest sort of portrayals was him in your Arrow show. Wow. Yeah. Feel free to write our comic book lovers if you like. We're not going to go into as much detail as we do in Umbrella Academy, and we also went into detail with The Boys. Even though I heard a whisper, Oti,

3:36KT: that we we read the first volume of The Boys, and we were so confused because they introduced the plot line that was so delicious, and we were wondering why it wasn't introduced in the show. And maybe I'll just mention it to Oti so I don't spoil anything. They're actually going to introduce that in the upcoming season. Yeah. It gets tasty and it gets very dark, friends and lovers. So definitely in the flavoring of what we're getting into today.

4:03KT: Let's get into first impressions, Oti. What did you think about this? And I guess if you want, you can refresh the palettes of our friends and lovers on how you felt about The Suicide Squad and how did you just feel generally about Peacemaker?

4:16Oti: I didn't think much about him in The Suicide Squad. I didn't really care for his character there. And then on the Huddle basing a show off him, I was like, oh, this is just gonna be another drivel.

4:27Oti: I didn't expect anything from it, and we were like, oh, I'll just give that pilot a go and see how you know? Not not expecting that we'll they'll be delving into this episode so much and loving it from head to toe. Yeah. I think just we've said it a million times, you know, when when you dive in into the ridiculousness of your world, of your universe that you've built,

4:50Oti: then you can you can you can you can tell you can get all the other nonsense out of the way and you can get to the core of the story and you can get to love the characters, which we all do. And wow. I didn't know that I would appreciate John Cena this much playing Peacemaker.

5:07KT: Yeah. And he is rivaling and I'm sorry, I know I should have extra brown as much as Oti has his black, but he's kind of my favorite wrestler at this point. Wrestler turned actor. Yeah. For sure. Wrestler turned actor. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I absolutely agree with you. I love that we're getting into a medium. You know, there there was the wave of, like, animated adult geared entertainment like Archer, for example, and you see a lot of, unfortunately, inferior, not necessarily copies, but to try and compete within the space. And now we're seeing comic books,

5:47KT: again, the more accessible Western animes that really lean into its ridiculousness. And as much as I don't DM me, I don't have time to talk about how much I fucking hate Chris Pratt.

6:00KT: But no, but Guardians of the Galaxy really brought something different. Right? The same way that Taika offered something different in Thor: Ragnarok, and I am sure in Thor: Love and Thunder as well. James Gunn brought such a flavoring to the Marvel universe with Guardians of the Galaxy. And I think that's also one of the credits in regards to the show. The music is interwoven and it's it's so much a part of the show as much as the ridiculous sort of characters. Right?

6:32Oti: Oh, a 100%. I think when we were watching the pilot because you you you get the story out for a bit before you get to the end to get to hear the opening credits song. Yeah. And wow. Wow. Wow. Wow.

6:45KT: Oti is a serial skipper. Oti does not like watching intros, be it Succession, be it The Wire, and they change that every fucking season, you motherfucker. Oti will always skip intros, but we never. Because you know what, friends and lovers? Sometimes the world weighs you down. You just need a couple of minutes of fucking reprieve. Apparently, it's supposed to speak to the,

7:09KT: I guess, the the the more melancholic sort of tone as the show goes on because of the mind control sort of element, I don't even care. It's just fucking fun. I enjoy it. I didn't get too far in Guardians of the Galaxy, but, you know, there's a lot of love for Groot. Shout out to Julio from the contrarians. He has a very lovely, possibly a true to scale poster of Groot. And we also see that with a bigger poster.

7:36KT: And we also see that with Eagly as well. And I guess we'll get into spoilers, but, you know, also Murn to a certain extent if we're talking about butterflies. Right? These, you know, these characters that aren't necessarily human that make us fucking feel something. Like, give me a Mads Mikkelsen riding his bike all day, but an Eagly hugging like Peacemaker, that's enough to make me blubber. Like, I felt so many things watching this show. I felt joy. I felt triumph. Obviously, was very frustrated,

8:10KT: but I definitely agree with you. There was definitely a gap that needed to be bridged and James Gunn even concedes this and it resulted in lots of angry tweets in his direction because I would say, and I guess he would also say that Peacemaker was the least fleshed out in The Suicide Squad and, you know, even Ratcatcher 2. Like, if you have less no. If you have less character development than Polka-Dot Man,

8:35KT: you're not getting a fair shake of the stick. Right? So but it may it makes sense to give him the TV show because he didn't necessarily get that moment of, you know, wholly realized sort of character arc. And I guess before we even, you know, continue talking in detail about the show, let's talk about well, I guess if you watch to the end, you know that Peacemaker is still alive at the end of The Suicide Squad. I had qualm, Oti, aside from the lovely Idris Cena showdown

9:04KT: that they had, you know, when they were going through the camp and they were eliminating everyone. Yeah. Lots of delicious moments in The Suicide Squad. I got frustrated with John Cena, and I I guess, you know, this is where I'll say hashtag justice for Flag. Oh, wow. You think I didn't forget? I'm still plugged into the matrix, Oti. No. Because it's like, you wanna uphold the peace, but what if the peace was brought by oppression? What if the peace wasn't attained through peaceful means?

9:34KT: But he doesn't care about that. Whatever peace there is, he's there to maintain it. Well, his daddy is at the top of the white hood. So I guess it makes guess it makes sense. But I got frustrated with Peacemaker in The Suicide Squad, even though it was pretty light,

9:52KT: I got annoyed with him because I generally don't like Peacemakers in general, you know? Mhmm. Like, hold on to your dick when you walk into a room, don't try and slide it in like a sloppy fish. Wow. A sloppy starfish. There's your reference, Oti. You didn't want it, but you're gonna take it.

9:52Oti: I'm not sure about that.

10:11Oti: Fishly?

10:14KT: Oh, but this show has been quite a journey. I've absolutely enjoyed it. Let's talk about characters. You know, we we can talk about themes, but come on. It's it's a fucking fun show, and we're just going to dive into all of the salaciousness and all of the frivolity. And I guess while we're here and we're all feeling a bit thirsty, I think this is the first time I've ever wondered what a muscular ass would feel like. What?

10:43KT: I I I never thought I had a need. I never thought I had a need. I never thought on a cold night that might be what warms me. So you saw Johnson's ass and you're like, I wanna touch that. I've been thinking about some things. I guess while we're talking about muscular asses, Dave Bautista was on James Gunn's mind to play Peacemaker. Oh. But he was doing Snyder's Is It Called Army of the Dead? Yeah. Yeah.

11:11KT: So that's why and then he wanted to work with John Cena, so that's why John Cena is there. I guess just to give a bit I'm just gonna say, I'm The Rock was not an option. Well, between you and I, thoughts?

11:19Oti: No. I've just seen him to death. Everything he does, it's just the same. Ready to expand my horizon.

11:33KT: Yeah. Yeah. No. I absolutely agree. He's cool. He's around, and I'm not welcome. There you go. There's your Moana reference. That's as much as you're going to get me talking about Disney's Moana. Let me give a bit of background in regards to the comic book Peacemaker. Most of the villains that he would go up against were dictators or warlords. Mhmm. Apparently, Vigilante, they were kind of like rivals because Peacemaker killed his dad slash mentor. Oh. Sort of figure. So there there's a lot of detail in regards to Peacemaker's

12:11KT: character in general. There's like a pre crisis and a post crisis, and then they get amalgamated into DC comics. But what I will read is he learns his peace through violence efforts were the result of a serious mental illness brought on by the shame of having a Nazi death camp commander for a father. He believes his father's spirit haunts him continually and criticizes his every move even as he tries to live down his past. And we kind of already see that near the end of season one because his dad's dead but that doesn't stop the lingering and the trauma.

12:11Oti: It doesn't and I think when we got introduced to Peacemaker the character, we wondered why he is the way he is and slowly throughout the season we get to learn tidbits about his past and the kind of relationship that their father has you know we could see something amiss

12:58Oti: when the first I think it's the first episode as well, when he goes back home and it's it's it's it's such a weird interaction between the two. And we knew, okay, this is wild. Yeah. And going and revealing and peeling the onion sort of back, we get to see some brutal, gruesome shit that I did not expect anyone to recover from. Yeah. Your father blaming you for killing your own brother. And I think, like,

13:26Oti: there's nothing that brings you back from that, the scarring that you like, I understand a 100% why he is the fuck the way he is. He went a couple of extra miles from 8 Mile, didn't he? From the white trash.

13:38KT: No sort of venture for a future. Yeah. Mom's spaghetti and shit, mate. Yeah. But that that is some heavy some heavy fucking shit. So the the the the racial sort of subtle like subtleties that Peacemaker would have, at least he wasn't homophobic. Yeah. He was very progressive. And apparently, John Cena influenced his sexuality a lot because he's bisexual, at least from the TV adaptation. Oh. Hey. He's not gonna knock down love. He's gonna get it wherever he can. Mhmm. Nice. Not from Vigilante though. Oh, that's what I was hoping for season two.

14:17KT: Make it happen. Oh, friends and lovers, I've been saying this since our Spartacus episode. We need to even out the nudity. And I think we've seen more like male asses on this show. Yeah. We have. Aside from Adebayo's lady's pussy pick.

14:17Oti: Oh, that was one of the funniest one of the funniest fucking moments I've ever experienced in the last couple of months because it was so unexpected

14:44Oti: and it wasn't as if they were trying to pick we weren't watching Japanese porn essentially. We were seeing the full pussy. Yeah. It's one of those things. I think that was the last thing I'd expect to have seen in that scene. And then I was like, woah. What the fuck?

14:59KT: I'm like I'm sorry that had to be the first one you could see. I'll take it where I can get it. Well, let's let's quickly go into his abilities, and this kind of crosses over into the TV show as well. Peak of human physical condition. Okay. You close your eyes and you imagine John Cena. Sorry. Dwayne The Rock Johnson. Shout outs to people that are watching Young Rock. You don't need to DM me, but shout outs to you if you're watching it. We need Wow. Well,

15:29KT: I'm not being casted as his relative in Black Adam. I think that's for sure. Durable body armor, flight pack technology, communications helmet, indomitable will. Woah. That's like the personality of powers, isn't it? Yeah. Expert in hand to hand combat, access to advanced military weapons, that's not necessarily an ability. Skilled marksman and espionage, I don't know. Based on the TV portrayal, I don't think he's very good at espionage. Not to the level of Archer, but I don't think he's that good.

16:04Oti: For every character trait we miss in Peacemaker, we get from Vigilante, I mean, Adebayo, even Harcourt, you know. I didn't think that I'd care so much for Murn until he was fucking dying. I was like, what? Yeah.

16:17KT: Like where did the feelings come from? It just creeps up on you, isn't it? Doesn't it? Yeah. Absolutely. But I guess this is where the feelings creep away. I wanna talk about Augie. I wanna talk because we're naturally going to talk about Peacemaker as we continue this podcast episode. I wanna talk about Augie. So he's actually a merging of two comic book characters. So there's the White Dragon, the leader of a white supremacist group called the Aryan Empire. I how can you be like so pro white, but you have dragon in your title?

16:49KT: He's a combination of two characters from the DC comics. So Wolfgang Schmidt, who's Peacemaker's father, a former Nazi. So I don't think that's even mentioned in the TV show, understandably. And William Heller, the White Dragon leader of the Aryan Empire, enemy to the Suicide Squad.

17:05Oti: His character is despicable, but I think getting

17:10KT: Did you just say butt in a white supremacist direction?

17:10Oti: Robert Patrick is fucking lovable.

17:10KT: Okay. Well well, fill in my Pusser Valley gaps. Where do you know him from? Because I don't know if I've seen him in anything.

17:10Oti: Yeah. He's been in a lot of shit me.

17:10KT: So you're saying you're able to separate the actor from the character?

17:10Oti: Yeah. But not that I needed to do it for this. It's more

17:10KT: But I'm saying like Walton Goggins and Michael Chiklis,

17:37KT: when they're saying the shit they're saying in The Shield, you kind of like, yeah, you'd say that. And I guess without Tarantino run, I'd be like, yeah, you'd say that.

17:51Oti: Walton Goggins is an international treasure, mate. Yeah. He's a fucking unicorn. Wow. But, yeah, like, it was despicable how he treated Peacemaker. I hated every aspect of that. And he never really held back from his racism. He was he wore it as a badge of pride and honor. Even his interactions with Detective Song, I think those are one of the funniest things ever. Folk?

18:16KT: Yeah. You really showed him. It's interesting because yeah, obviously obviously it's blatant like out in the sun racism, but I guess it's also, you know, in the world that we live in now, inconvenience is being confused as basic human rights or or at least living on a world where he thrived and now he doesn't anymore. Yeah. So holding on to the last bastion of supremacy, I suppose. Oh, but it's exactly what you're saying. Like the introduction to Augie is what helps us soften and I guess become more empathetic in regards to Peacemaker because

19:00KT: he says a lot of shit out of pocket. Like even if he doesn't have the venom, he does say a lot of shit that, you know, not even in a PC sort of way, but he says a lot of shit that just makes him seem like he's so out of touch, but he doesn't have the venom to it. But again, it contextualizes Peacemaker

19:21KT: as a character and you're not going to grow up like Rick Flag if you had a dad like Augie. But can I at least why are we supremacist apologists on this podcast? But I just wanna say I like that he kind of took care of Eagly. He did.

19:36Oti: And he pretended as if he didn't give a shit, but me, you did take care of Eagly.

19:43KT: Yeah. So if we have a list of dastardly, devilly white supremacist actors, he'll definitely be in there. But I'm even thinking about Jesse Plemons and Judas and the Black Messiah. There's definitely many others we would willingly throw. Mhmm. Well, like he will continue to haunt Peacemaker, I'm sure he'll have a sustained presence throughout the show. Also, don't understand how Vigilante didn't stop to think, or I guess he doesn't really stop to think because he left the keys in the car as well.

20:13KT: But he didn't even stop to think that there were GPS in the helmets or they weren't being tracked in any way. Yeah. All of this pioneering technology with no sort of GPS at all. Yeah. Ridiculous oversight, isn't it?

20:26Oti: Well, let's talk expect that from him. Let's talk about Vigilante.

20:29KT: He's he's not stupid.

20:31Oti: I don't know. I wouldn't call him stupid. I think he knows what he has to do as Vigilante. He's got a lot of follow through. Yeah. He he it's it's it's a fucking straight line with him and him as Vigilante, he has a goal and he removes everything. If it's killing kids and he has to do it, fuck it. I'll do it. And I think that was

20:52KT: because we we hear a lot with peacemakers, especially in The Suicide Squad. I'll do whatever I need to do to get, you know, peace. Right? But I think it's when they were surveilling that family and there was a decision that needed to be made to kill those kids. And Vigilante was with his whole Michael Jordan chess was like, fuck them kids.

21:13Oti: Yeah. He he would take that shot gladly because he doesn't behind his mask he doesn't give a shit so it's it's it's refreshing to see that he was there to you know be that person that Peacemaker couldn't be at that point And I think that's one of the best ways to integrate him into the squad as well.

21:34KT: And he's so devastatingly, beautifully loyal. Like when he got himself to go inside just so he can go and kill the dad. And he was obviously, yes, it's very lazy. Yes, it's the go to association of incest and rednecks and that sort of thing. But I really enjoyed that. That was a very triumphant moment. Mhmm. It was. Would you say that Vigilante is your favorite? Who would you say if we're not talking about Peacemaker, who would you say is your favorite?

21:34Oti: Oh, it'll be Vigilante.

22:04Oti: I feel like I'd love Judomaster, but we've barely seen a lot of him. But the fact that he can even compete. Yeah. Yeah. But it's still Vigilante, heads and shoulders. Because a Peacemaker did a reverse Mel Gibson and he's like, you can do whatever you want to him.

22:14KT: Oh, yeah. I yeah. Vigilante is just great. Everything that you would want him to say and do, he absolutely does it. And there are just so many beautiful moments he brings into the show and it's it's so effortless. It's so fucking effortless. Speaking of not necessarily effortless, it was definitely a bumpy road. Let's talk about Adebayo. Danielle Brooks.

22:45Oti: It was good seeing her in the show, you know. Glad she's getting roles.

22:45KT: I feel like you're preparing yourself to say something negative.

22:45Oti: No. No. No. No. No. She made a conscious decision to be part of that, to be a spy, know, for her mom. Yeah. Like she wasn't working at the local biscuit factory.

23:03Oti: Like that's a big decision to work for your mom Amanda Waller. Yeah. And I don't know what she expected because a lot of the scenes we have over her is hard trying to contemplate the turmoil. Oh, I can't shoot anyone. I can't I can't believe I'm spying. I can't believe I put a notebook on, you know, at a Peacemaker's bed or some shit. Like, you were there for that specific reason and you did that shit. Yeah. You know, own it and stop pretending yourself, oh, I don't know. I I guess it's fucking human nature.

23:34KT: No, I agree. I I absolutely agree. She wasn't to the level of like seasons in Hughie from The Boys, but she definitely took a bit too long, like a bit too long to accept her role and her where she fit in this world, especially because she had all the cards aside from the fact that Murn already figured it out that, you know, she was Amanda Waller's daughter. But she took she took a bit too long. However, again, there was so much to enjoy

24:05KT: in this TV show. It didn't bother me enough to like, I guess if you if you talk about Pussy Valley, like P-Valley, for example, if kept focusing on Autumn Night, even though and I guess this is also another call out. If you haven't watched or you've tried to watch Pussy Valley and you're annoyed because it keeps focusing on Autumn Night, keep waiting because it's going to expand the characters. But my point is from day dot, this show had a very succinct focus in the emotional resonance. Right? Stylistically, aesthetically,

24:36KT: it ticks all of the boxes, but I love that there was such a focus on making us wanna fucking care about these characters.

24:46Oti: Yeah. 100 agree and I think even with the frustrations of Adebayo, at least we have people in in her court and even Peacemaker challenging her and how she sees the world and how she feels that I need to be this type of person because that's my orders from my mom or whatever that's what she believed or had lots of values and I think her being called out in some of those situations sort of helped as well because

25:10Oti: it's not just her being being all contradictory the whole show without being facing any sort of friction.

25:23KT: Well, they were completely opposite, but there were definitely some sort of parallels in regards to Adebayo and Peacemaker in the sense that they both had parents that had paths that were laid out for them. And whether they wanted to or not, they were indoctrinated in whatever the way was because we learned very early I think even in you know Suicide Squad that people don't really like to acknowledge but on a second viewing we actually really enjoyed right Oti

25:47KT: But even then, we we had an inkling that Amanda Waller wasn't so benevolent. Right? And she wasn't even like ends justify the means. She just wanted to fuck shit up. She fucking killed her whole team. That was in Suicide Squad. Right? Not the newer one? Yeah. Because they're expendable,

26:03Oti: you know. If if if Amanda Waller was leading the Expendables gang with with Stallone and Jet Li and all the rest, they'll be dead by now.

26:16KT: They'll be making a spindle five or whatever or whatever number they are up to now. Yeah. I I I really she grew on me though. She definitely grew on me. I didn't like that she brought her partner though. Like, it makes no sense to bring or or even wife, I'm not sure, or maybe they did mention on the show, but, you know, she why did she bring her home life there? McNulty knew not to do that. Hutch knew not to do that.

26:43Oti: But is it the people you're comparing her to?

26:43KT: Well, those are people dedicated to their job. Yeah. So I guess there is a bit of a difference there, but I grew to love her and even the moments that she had with Peacemaker and a very satisfying, very stupid out of context if you were to explain it. But when Peacemaker was talking about how Eagly hugged him and she didn't believe it at all, and then we feel the payoff of that later on in the season.

27:09KT: One of the most beautiful, beautiful, beautiful moments and, you know, as ridiculous and high octane as this show is, there was a genuine hurt that, you know, Peacemaker felt about the planting of the diary because he really felt like they were getting to a genuine sort of friendship. Right?

27:19Oti: Yeah. Peacemaker saw her as a best friend. You know, he told her things that, you know, he opened up Yeah. And for her to still carry through with what her mom wanted, It felt like a such a big betrayal and I think getting to a point where all was forgiven

27:44Oti: at least felt as if it was dissolved and it wasn't just, oh, let's just get this out of this way and we can move on as a team.

27:56KT: Yeah. No. Yeah. I I definitely understand that. Let's move on to Harcourt. Not that we don't like it, but we haven't really talked about her at all. So I wanna give her a bit of time and attention. She didn't really offer much. She kind of just came off as that like badass woman that hopefully will grow to care about that becomes kind of the sexual attention of Peacemaker, but they really do round out her character. And I think one of the cutest, heartfelt moments with Harcourt is when she allowed herself to get close to these ridiculous people. And she created the group chat.

28:30Oti: Yeah. That was really sweet and nice to see. Like you said, she was a bit standoffish at first and she just warmed up to everyone else, you know, be it Peacemaker's ridiculousness, even Adebayo, you know, they're all completely different sides of the spectrum in terms of how they saw shit. Yeah. But slowly but surely she became close to each and one of them. And we get to see even at the end when she got shot, know, you could see how that affected the whole team. Yeah. How everyone rallied. We even had Economos, you know,

29:03Oti: pushing pushing against his limits.

29:07KT: Thank you for the Black Clover anime reference, but he is the live action suppressing fire.

29:14Oti: Yeah. Cyril Figgis. That was the only thing that was missing for Economos. He should he should definitely add that to his vocabulary, just suppressing fire all the time.

29:27KT: Oh, but I I really came to love Harcourt and I love that very naturally, very organically, she became the leader after Murn. Because she was she she was she cared about them, but she was always going to make the hard decision. Well, let's talk about Murn. I think we already we already mentioned the fact that we didn't think we were going to care about him at all. This show does have a companion podcast and it's okay. There'll be a second season, so maybe they'll hire us. But in the meantime, in Chukwudi's interview,

30:01KT: they were trying to like give cute little tidbits on the filming of the show and that sort of thing. And he was talking about how they had to screw into the trees and apparently he was like really bad at it. But he really was and I guess if we're going to go back to anime, he was very much the Neji of this show. He was very much the straight man in this show. With all of the ridiculousness, he was at the center of the vortex. He was. I didn't.

30:31Oti: But the thing is with him, he was an alien or he was infiltrated by one. So it was expected that he would be the straight sort of character because he can't afford to be ridiculous, he wants to save the world or save the planet from the destruction and having to destroy the cow, so he had a very, he was very target oriented.

30:57KT: I haven't watched The Human Centipede but I'm assuming maybe not that maybe Kyle Broflovski's Human Centipede, very much similar to the cuttlefish not the vanilla paste. Actually, you're right. You're right because he did play it very straight, but you're right. It was because he was a butterfly. Thoughts on Economos?

31:14Oti: He's the only one that's defeated Judomaster.

31:21KT: Does it have to be said that way?

31:25Oti: Oh, I love Economos. I think

31:27KT: He be laughing. He be laughing. Twenty four seven, I tell you. Yeah. He's on those he's on those damp forums.

31:35Oti: How sad was it when he revealed why he dyed his beard? Yeah. Especially since Peacemaker kept on saying how he dyed his beard, you know. That was one of the most saddest thing of heart.

31:48KT: Yeah. He's like Joe Swanson and Cyril Figgis in live action. Yeah. He don't need those two characters. Oh. He brings the smarts though. He brings the smarts to the crew. What did you think about him? Do you think there was a part of him that wanted to like close the circle of generational trauma with Peacemaker by using because he literally could have used anyone. And we see that funny quip of John Cena, I believe, improvising of all of the other people he could have named instead. Yeah. It's wild.

32:24Oti: I think it was more to stick it up to Peacemaker just because Peacemaker kept on making fun of him. Yep. I was like, yeah, hell, he's your dad. Fuck you.

32:24KT: So you think at that point they weren't at like a a a a, like, warm and fuzzy place?

32:24Oti: No. I don't I I don't think so because we get to see them form this bond much later when Economos becomes more useful in the field. Uh-huh. So I think that's when the barriers start getting broken and even if Peacemaker was just having fun or whatever,

32:56Oti: you could see the friendship now starting to bond afterwards.

33:01KT: Do you remember when everyone was struggling and I think it might have been when Harcourt got shot and he chose to run into the field and he's immediately out of action.

33:14Oti: But he crawled his he crawled his ass. See, he dragged himself. He did. So, man, Economos is the hero to me, you know. Stand back, Batman. We don't need you.

33:27KT: He's the Economos vengeance. True. Well, he fights like Rob Benson. Wow. No. But there's definitely a lot more value in Economos that I'm not necessarily giving to him. But he he he definitely hits all of the right notes and he offers a lot of dimension if you choose to identify it in him. He definitely brings a lot to the show.

33:27Oti: Oh, he does. He's definitely also one of my favorites up there. This show wouldn't be the same without him.

33:27KT: Okay. That's a lot to say.

34:06Oti: It is. But he's he brings a lot of heart to this. You don't do this show without Adebayo brings the heart. Nah. She brings the annoyance and and the eventual sort of payoff that that brings when we start rooting for her. Economos is there and we're like, mate, we're with you. We don't have super strength. We don't have bloody helmets. We're there. We're there. We see you.

34:30KT: Tell us you have a secret Economos cosplaying account without telling us you have a secret. I could be laughing around with him. Who's the dungeon and who's the dragon Oti?

34:30Oti: Oh, we're both.

34:30KT: Interesting. I didn't realize you'd go so hard to bat for Economos, but there you go. Speaking of Judomaster, I wow wow wow wow wow. I love everything about him.

34:58Oti: Yeah. Me too. I think one of my favorite scenes is when he was standing outside of a convenience store. Yeah. Then this yeah. That was one of the worst. Well, fuck them. That's what you want to happen to dickheads out there every single day.

35:15KT: Go and get a cheesy snack. It's not going to end the same though. No. No. No. I'm definitely over the silent Asian, lethal Asian sort of trope. And we've talked about that in The Boys with The Female as well as Umbrella Academy. However, I do love Judomaster, and I want all of him. I want as much as I can get. I would even love a spin off a la Rock Lee and his Ninja Pals. I would really like a chibi cartoon version of Judomaster.

35:48Oti: Wow, that will be something. Absolutely.

35:52KT: Because yeah, it's just It's beautiful and I think that's definitely the formula and we talk about it all the time when a character that's great in small doses overstays their welcome. Like you need to stay to the Creed formula in The Office. Yeah, too much Creed, bad show. No, too much Creed and you get nickel Wow.

36:17Oti: Anything to say about Eagly? He gave us one of the best scenes in the show when he was fighting and chopping down the butterflies. Wow.

36:28KT: Like, absolutely. But then again, he's probably had a lot of training under Augie. I don't think Peacemaker would have taught him how to do that. Maybe. But like he was really getting in. He was getting his licks in more than Adebayo was. Oh, I love love love love love this show.

36:50KT: What what are you hoping to see in season two? I don't even know. Like, this is one of the shows I'm like, just give me whatever. Just take me on a ride. Yeah. Pretty sure I'll enjoy it. And this is just it. You know, as much as we talk about diversity, you can write white stories. Make them like this. Don't write The White Lotus. Write fucking Peacemaker.

37:09Oti: Then how can you explain off colluding is inmate?

37:12KT: Well, they didn't do it there. Not with Mike White's wallpaper. Oh, get off Paula's ass, mate. I see what you're doing. I see what you're doing. I am not the villain. Well, Oti, you can just let our friends and lovers sit in that. I was trying to have a good time. Thank you so much friends and lovers for joining us. And I don't know what is happening and I was never aware because we covered Doom Patrol at the start of this year. So we've gone maybe three months before talking about another DC.

37:48Oti: Yeah. DC is slowly becoming a household favorite, isn't it? Absolutely.

37:52KT: Absolutely. I guess Oscar Isaac might have something to say with Moon Knight. We'll see. I often think of him in Dune. That's all I think about. I don't think about anything else in Dune. Well, him and Chalamet.

37:52Oti: No. Thank you. You can have him.

37:52KT: I meant more Charlamagne tha God.

38:11Oti: You're

38:12KT: welcome to the Shyamalan plot twist. Friends and lovers, the For Your Reference and Shyamalan collaboration presents Oti in Old. You dickhead. We're gonna finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference, Oti.

38:30Oti: You mentioned it a few sentences back. I'll be remiss not to reference The Boys

38:30KT: Nice.

38:30Oti: Because it's just so so good. Yeah. Hold on to your fuck pigs because it's coming up very very soon.

38:45KT: I love John Cena and I really enjoy him. I don't know if people feel cringe about him, but we recently watched Vacation Friends with Yvonne Orji, Lil Rel Howery, and obviously John Cena in it. And I had a delicious, delightful time because when you lean in to your archetype, we can all ride it and snap it up. If you'd like to ride it until the disgusting Peacemaker cows come home on Twitter and Instagram, we're @ForYourRefPod. Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also on

39:19KT: please send your Oti x Economos fan art to hello@fyrpodcast.com if you like to leave a rating and review. And we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.