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- March 26, 2019
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Full transcript of Money Heist – And Denver were none.
KT: Hey, and welcome to another episode of For Your Reference. This is our mini segment before the show called Your Phrase or Mine. So Oti is going to give us a phrase, idiom or ancient proverb, and I'm going to have to guess the literal meaning or modern day interpretation. Prize is choosing the next week's episode.
Oti: Alright. So my proverb for today is from Africa. Okay. Nothing specific about where it originates in Africa, but here we go. Sugarcane is sweetest at its joint.
KT: I will take the modern day interpretation and say that whenever you start out in life, it is always the best part of the journey because as you continue along that path, there will be trials and tribulations that will make you bitter for the experience So make sure you enjoy it at the initial.
Oti: Interesting. It's almost you're almost there. Well, what they meant was that it's the good and the sweet things in life may appear difficult to achieve, but in the end, it's worth it. I feel like you loosely came to the same meaning and interpretation.
KT: No. Mine was different, and I would fight you that mine was better. Oh, this is so weird. Surprise. Us is coming out in Australia this week. So most likely, we will both decide to do Us next week. So we both win. Hello. Welcome to For Your Reference podcast with your cohost, KT. And Oti. Yeah. And today, it's actually your pick.
Oti: Yes.
KT: It you won Your Phrase or Mine last week.
Oti: Yeah. I did.
KT: Yes. And what will we be talking about today, sir? We'll be talking about La Casa de Papel,
KT: also known as Money Heist.
Oti: Oh, you don't even need me here. We can pack up and go home.
KT: Yep. Okay. So that's our pick for this week. It has been out since 2017. This is a Spanish TV show based around Money Heist, obviously. It was acquired by Netflix last year, and they split the one limited series into two parts. And they've also confirmed last year that they will be having a third part released sometime this year. Oh, very nice. So we'll definitely be referring you guys when that date is actually known.
KT: But, you know, for anyone that hasn't, come across this show, welcome. We won't go into spoilers just yet. This show pretty much surrounds the all encompassing El Profesor. And he pretty much bands together pretty much people that specialize in what he's looking for for the long prepared multiple day assault on the royal mint of Spain. K? So very exciting. 15 episodes so far in the miniseries for Money Heist. I thought we'll just quickly go through all of the characters in the series before we start diving into it. If you haven't watched it,
KT: go ahead and watch it. I'm pretty sure it's in most Netflixes around the world. It also won an Emmy for best drama series last year, so there are some accolades there. But, yeah, definitely check it out. And then once you've watched it, come back to your buddies at For Your Reference and have a good chat with us. So this series actually starts off with a character that's later known as Tokyo. It's really moody, and it starts off with her laying in the bed,
KT: musing about life, how she had her once great love, and she doesn't have it anymore. And the series starts with her, and it sets the foundation because she's essentially the protagonist, and she's also the narrator for the show as well. Yep. We don't really know much about her. We know that she's on the run for some sort of crime, and she's away from her family. So the way that the series starts off is she gets a call from her mother, her grandmother?
Oti: Her grandmother.
KT: Her grandmother. And she's on her way to meet her when
KT: El Profesor intercepts her and essentially says, you know, you you don't know me from a grain of salt, but trust me, you don't wanna go there. If if someone was to pull up to you on the side of the road and tell you not to go where you're about to go, how would you react?
Oti: I'd probably trust them.
KT: Really?
Oti: Yeah. I'll just take a detour. No. I won't be going with them. I'll just go somewhere else and see what doing.
KT: Genuinely just trust a random person.
Oti: Yeah. Because it will be spooky. Otherwise, why would they tell me not to go to go home?
KT: Okay. Tune in next week for Oti heist, where he gets heist at himself. Yeah. So the main protagonist is Tokyo. We also have El Profesor, who I mentioned earlier. We also have pretty much everyone that's involved in the heist is named after some sort of city, some sort of iconic place in the world. We've also got Moscow, who's a former miner turned criminal and Denver's father. Solid character. Very solid character. Very solid character. Definitely the patriarchal figure of the show as well. We also have well, we might as well talk about Denver.
KT: So Denver is the son of Moscow. A bit reckless, but he has a good heart. We've also got Rio, who is very good with a computer, and he also is essentially the love interest for Tokyo. We've got Nairobi, who's a lovely little lady. She's very good at forgery, which becomes very hand handful. Very useful Mhmm. As the show and the heist goes on as well. We've also got Helsinki and Oslo, who are pretty much the brunt and the brawn of this series. And we've also got Berlin, who I
KT: I will forever say is not just my favorite character in Money Heist or La Casa de Papel. But just in general, I think he was a very solid character with a lot of dimension. So those are the main, sort of heist characters. And then you also have main characters as well, on the other side of that. So you've got Raquel, who's an inspector of the National Police Corps. And she's essentially, you know, chasing El Profesor and trying to get ahead of him.
KT: You've also got hostages that we come to know quite intimately through the series. So we've got the despicable Arturo.
Oti: Yeah. He's he's really bad. Super gross.
KT: And Monica as well.
Oti: But one thing about Arturo, you definitely want him if you're a hostage. Right? No. If you're a hostage, you'd want someone like Arturo there.
KT: No. Well, maybe I would want him, but I wouldn't want him as the person in power.
Oti: Not in power, but at least you'd want him in there causing all sorts of distractions because he helped a lot of the hostages out. He needed to stand down. Well, just because we were rooting for the, you know, the bad guys. But if you're a hostage in there, you definitely want Arturo in your side.
KT: Okay. So so you talk about rooting for the bad guys. Let's talk about this because it is quite an interesting spin. I think more and more our appetite for, I guess, you know, heroes that have gone bad or relatable villains has become even larger now. And, yes, they are, you know, committing a crime, But at the same time, it was made very clear that El Profesor wasn't someone that was out for blood like Berlin, for example. He was someone that was calculating, but he also had some sense of humanity.
KT: Even throughout the heist, he made it very clear that they wouldn't be there essentially wouldn't be any collateral damage in regards to the hostages.
Oti: Yeah. And that was the plan all along. Like, make it as clean as possible. And as in as much as we know the world how it works, that's never going to happen. Nothing goes according to plan.
KT: Yeah. Exactly. But I think, you know, because they had their own sense of moral code, you kinda respected that, and you kinda just wanted to watch the story unfold. Yeah. True. So let's talk about Raquel.
Oti: What were your thoughts on Raquel?
KT: I thought she started off as someone that was very strong, but you could see behind her eyes that there was some vulnerability there.
Oti: And
KT: I I got a bit annoyed at the way she was handled throughout the series. But again, I have a very strong sense of strong woman characters and the way that they were written. I don't like when a strong woman character falls to the whims of a charming man. And I felt that's kind of where her character was going. And there were a lot of examples of where she slipped up. You know? She she was becoming reckless and, you know, she she essentially took her eyes off the prize. You know what I mean?
KT: One thing that I thought was a bit ridiculous, and if you're ever planning on rewatching Money Heist, which I would strongly recommend, it really pissed me off how she would be in the tent, her hair would be down, but as soon as El Profesor called,
KT: she would have to put it in a bun. And every time she put her hair in a bun and she put that clip in, it was crunch time. That just means it's action time. But as soon as I pointed it out, you couldn't not notice it, could you?
Oti: No. It was quite noticeable, but all I'm saying is I didn't mind it.
KT: It was really gimmicky though.
Oti: It's a thing. It's not gimmicky. It's like it's you know, she's rolling up her sleeves.
Oti: You know when you're watching Rambo and Rambo does puts up the bandana?
KT: Adrian, wrong wrong movie. That's wrong movie.
Oti: Rambo puts on the bandana, you know it's action time. Like, shit's about to go down. Really? That's a similar thing. Yeah. It's not gimmicky. It's just fun. Like, it's a thing. It's a quirk. It's a personality trait. Like, just roll with it.
KT: Oh, a a personality trait.
Oti: Yeah.
KT: Interesting.
KT: What did you think about her?
Oti: I think she did the best she could considering her background. She had an abusive ex husband. Yes. Terrible trash. An ex husband who had gotten together with a sister which is you could you could not pray for such a thing when you lost enemy like it was so surreal that she was actually able to function and to go to work every single day and have all this mess at home, know, and just compartmentalize everything. But yeah, so I think she was quite a strong character in that aspect.
Oti: If she wasn't dealing with the sort of shit she was dealing with, I would definitely think she would
Oti: she was probably weaker. She slipped up a lot.
Oti: And when El Profesor to the professor being good rather than her being terrible.
KT: Yeah. But there were also times when professor slipped up as well, really stupid little mistakes along the way. And you're like, you're not actually an expert. You don't know what you're doing.
Oti: I don't I don't agree with that. Like the moment the professor slipped up, there were moments where like when he he was at the junkyard trying to get his fingerprint of a car. Uh-huh. And he had to cover himself with blood and just to look homeless. Mhmm. And we have this scene where they actually meet with Raquel. And Raquel realizes something is not right the second she turns her back on him. Uh-huh. And you could see her mind is that fast. Like, she tries to connect the dots like that.
Oti: And I feel like she was quite solid. Like, any any any slip up that you may think of, it was more due to the professor just being a half a step forward than her being horrible at a job.
KT: You reckon? Yeah. It was it was quite smart of her to have that little note for Rio. Because we're I'm a bit hesitant because we're going into spoiler town. But I guess if you're here, you've watched it and you wanna hear the conversation. So let's steamroll ahead. Because arguably, Rio was the weak link. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Of all of them. And I'm sure there was a part of you as well that was like, okay.
KT: He's about to slip. This is about to go pear shaped right now. True. But the professor had thought of all the scenarios.
Oti: They had six months to prepare for all this. Mhmm. So we have the professor knowing that they'll try to use Rio and he told Rio, okay, they will try and come at you like they'll use your parents to try and make you feel like you can surrender. Yeah. And we saw this transpiring when they actually got they got they managed to sneak in a message Uh-huh. To the bank about you know a message from the parents and Rio was watching it and it got all emotional
Oti: and we thought as an audience at the time oh they found a loophole bloody hell they found a loophole and it was so predictable. They were like, come on, professor. You could have done better. But it didn't happen like that.
KT: And, again, even with Alison, the schoolgirl, and how they had all of the phones on the wall, but they managed to transmit photos from there. That was also a slip up that wasn't accounted for. But that was more down to
Oti: Denver? Denver. He couldn't account for people's stupid mistakes.
KT: And Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. You were just singing accolades of the professor having six months to prepare, but now you're just poo pooing this? Yeah. Like,
Oti: there's no reason why they they would have had Alison in that room and allowed her to use a phone for whatever reason that was. Like, it was just stupid.
KT: There was a it wasn't really a rape scene, but there was unwanted sexual advances between Alison and that other schoolboy.
Oti: Yeah. She he tried to take a picture of her naked or groping her and sending her out to the school kids. Fucking gross.
KT: Did he end up dying? I hope he did.
Oti: No. He didn't. He actually managed to escape thanks to Arturo.
KT: Arturo. Is it time to talk about Arturo? Where do we start? Well, it starts off as, I think Monica's the first one we see. And then it pans to her talking to Arturo. And you see that he's the big boss, and they have something going on. And then you discover that's not his wife. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure he was asking you to give up the baby as well.
Oti: Yeah. He found out that Monica was pregnant, he wasn't pleased because he had he was married, had a family, had a kid, didn't want to rock the boat, you know. A lot of these things go that way where if you're a side chick, you know that the probability of the person leaving their family for you are pretty slim. So and that's how it went. Yeah. But we come to see Arturo falling in love
KT: Don't.
Oti: Or falling
KT: Don't you even try to tell me that there's character development with that Arturo man.
Oti: There is character development.
KT: No way. Because other start fight you.
Oti: Other start, we're showing Arturo as not being
Oti: a caring person, and he was in it just for the sex or whatever it was. But during the heist, he feels like he's wronged Monica, and he has to do something more for her. Exactly. Becomes more protective. He becomes he he cares more about the pregnancy. And when he when when he heard that Monica wanted to get an abortion, he almost flipped a switch like
KT: No. But that's exactly it. What you said during the heist, he didn't know whether he was going to get out. So, of course, he was going to try to jack up on that. You need to sometimes you need a life or death experience to just knock some sense into you. With your side piece, not with your wife because your wife's not there.
Oti: But even even so, remember, the last phone call, I think it was during the end of season one or part one, where they managed to get Arturo to talk to the wife. Mhmm. And do you remember what he called the wife? He called the wife Monica because it's all Monica all day, all night, man. Nah.
KT: Yeah. Nah. Kings didn't leave their queens for common whores.
Oti: Well, she wasn't a common whore. She's quite intelligent.
KT: Okay. She was a mint whore.
Oti: She's an intelligent person just caught up in a relationship that she thought. She was. And and Because Arturo did promise that they would be together forever He did. Before the heist. No. He did. Yeah. And that was that was all before having pregnant. I think that just scared Arturo. And I'm not trying to make excuses for him because that's shitty, but the pregnancy just threw a spanner in the works, and he didn't feel like he could give up.
Oti: It it just felt all too real. You know what I mean? Like, he can have this
KT: Oh, so it's not real when you're actually cheating on your wife? Once the baby pops out, that's when it feels real?
Oti: Yeah. I'd say so.
Oti: It's all fun and games until then.
KT: Oh, is it?
KT: So should I be waiting nine months until I see a good surprise? There are a lot of vorties out there. Oh my. Prima Noctis?
Oti: Yeah.
KT: We're not the Prima Noctis podcast, and I hope to god there isn't one out there. So let's let's just let's just leave that to the side for a second. Denver or Moscow? What do you think?
Oti: Like you said, Moscow is the father in the group, and you you could see how everyone respected him. You know? You could get guys that didn't get much respect like Berlin even though I think he deserved a whole lot more than he got. Yeah. But he'll get his own section to And talk and Moscow is one of the and he connected with everyone. He connected with Nairobi, with Tokyo,
Oti: you know, and and he could he could understand, he could empathize with everyone in the group and everyone felt like, oh, I can really talk to him. And we saw his relationship with Denver. He felt he had failed Denver growing up and he took Denver under his wings because he the mother was a drug addict and he had to cut Tyler so it was pretty much the whole lives was just him and Denver but he had gone to prison for a while and Denver had was left out in the
Oti: the open just to men to fight for himself and he regrets this and he wants to be there for Denver and that's why he brought Denver into the heist because Denver initially wasn't meant to be part of this. No. Yeah.
KT: Aside from having an extra hand, I'm not sure if Denver had any specialized sort of skill.
Oti: Not really. But he he was quite likable.
KT: He was likable? He was a likable punk. Like, you you could tell that he pretty much lived his life to, you know, just all frivolity
Oti: and But he he brought his street smarts into this as well. Know? He lacked in talent, he brought in personality and some some thuggery into the into the group, but he he definitely brought some aspect of, the street know how, how to deal with situations if they go awry. Like, he is the man you'd go for when, okay, we need to improvise right now because everything the professor said isn't going according to plan. What do we do? If Berlin wasn't there, Denver is your man.
KT: Okay. I I think you're pepping him up a bit too much. He's more of a foot soldier. Like, he's efficient in what he does, but I don't think he has that lateral thinking for advising and for strategy.
Oti: He does. He brings a lot to this in terms of, you know, plot to us as well because we see him with Monica and how they build this relationship. So Uh-huh.
KT: Yeah.
Oti: Oh, yeah. So he's he's told by Berlin, go and kill Monica. Yes. Because Monica was trying to smuggle some phone. She was going rogue. Yes. Yeah. She was trying to smuggle a phone in her bra or something and when it rang and Berlin was like, finish it, Denver. But, yeah, Denver couldn't do it. Gladly so because the father was heartbroken when he thought that he'd actually killed Monica.
KT: Oh, they kept that secret for so long. They did. I was like, Moscow, your son's an angel.
Oti: And it hurt and it hurts Denver not being able to tell the father. Yes. Like, dad, I couldn't kill her. I can't kill anyone. Oh, man. It's not me. This show was rife with secrets. It really was. Just ready for the picking. Just ready for the picking.
KT: Moscow and Denver, very, very solid crew. But even Moscow, if, again, I I am not for milking things for all it's worth, but I would kind of be into watching a prequel of Moscow in his previous life.
Oti: It'll just be him in jail. That's okay. Oh, you want? Yeah.
KT: Escape escape at Casa de Papel. Yeah. But yeah. So had a really good father dynamic. How about because we talked about Moscow being the patriarchal figure. How about when he tried to pull Tokyo up on her bullshit?
Oti: Oh, I love that. Tokyo was being really spoilt. And I feel like if you're watching this and you don't hate Tokyo for the best part of this show We would love to meet you. We would definitely love to meet because you're obviously
KT: not human.
Oti: Yeah. Because Tokyo frustrates the the living hell out of you. She is entitled to us. She is she feels like everything just needs to go her way. Yeah. It took a while and I feel like once Moscow did tell him tell her what you know just you're full of shit and
KT: Don't drag
Oti: Don't drag it up. Rio down with you. Yeah. Because you could tell she clings on to someone and she just can't be alone. She's like one of those people who who have never been who have never not been in a relationship. Yeah. Just jumping from one Jumping from one ship to another because you're scared of being left alone with your thoughts.
KT: Yeah. But Tokyo was trash, man. She was she was like the anti protagonist. Like, just because of her unlikability and the reason why I just couldn't get on any level of relatability with her is, I guess, her her whole mantra was, you know, I've had a shit life, so I'm gonna use people as my playthings. I wanna do whatever I want, and everyone is collateral damage. You know, I'm
KT: I'm pretty sure it was her previous crime before this one. She was in a heist with her boyfriend that she persuaded to do it, and he ended up dying.
Oti: And that's why she's messed up because she feels like she failed the boyfriend and she doesn't want to do this again. And I feel like when she was talking with Rio and Rio was trying to get her to commit, she really couldn't because she felt like it's all temporary. Like Rio's an idiot
KT: because everyone knows A smart idiot. You can't wife a hoe.
Oti: Right? I wouldn't I wouldn't go that far. Tokyo is just messed up. She's been through a lot and she feels like
KT: No. But she uses well, in Rio's example, she uses her sexuality as a weapon. She does. And she uses her vulnerability as a weapon. She does. And that's not right. It's not. And that's not fair.
Oti: You appreciate the choir. I'm not I'm not trying to defend Tokyo, but we can see towards the end of part two. She's trying to reconcile all that back. Like, she's she's fully aware of how she's been, and she's trying to be a better person.
KT: No. But is she genuinely trying to be a better person? I doubt it. There was also a vulnerable moment between Tokyo and Rio where when they first scouted out the mint, she was talking about how, post coitus, that growing up, she would draw a door from which in her childhood she would be able to escape from essentially.
KT: But she would never want to use it and she would only have one chance to use it. But just knowing the door was there was enough for her. And when they went to scout the place, again, post Coitus, she shared this with Rio. And that was later filtered out throughout the show as well. And I guess you get a bit more of a glimpse of Tokyo. But again, I just I'm I'm not a fan of the way that she manipulates a situation even in that vulnerability.
Oti: Yeah and I feel like the professor should have been aware of what was going on because one of the mistakes that they made was going to scout the mint and they were caught on camera together Dumb. Kissing all lovey dovey. Dumb. And their faces were shown on national TV. Yeah. And we have to talk about the FBI crossing the line between Yes.
KT: Yes. On the roof? Was it on the roof? There was a scene, I'm pretty sure it was on the roof, where they got the innocents to dress in the jumpsuits, and they ended up shooting someone. They shot Arturo. Yeah.
Oti: Was it on the rooftop? Yeah. It was on the rooftop. Yeah. But what I meant was just yeah. Like, that's one example of the FBI crossing the line. Those are good examples. Like, it's just to what end? You know, they're getting pressure from politicians to get this done. Mhmm. But you have to do it right. You know? What's the point of getting an end result and everyone has their hands dirty?
KT: But that's like, you know, it's getting really tense, and it starts to ramp up, and they do the tight shots, and then you hear the boom boom boom boom boom music, and you don't know what to do. And Raquel's like, just shoot them. Just shoot them. And you shoot them, and you realize it's Arturo, and you're like, oh, we damn did fucked up. We but I wasn't that I wasn't that angry because Arturo is terrible. Yeah. He just knew he wouldn't die. Hang on a sec. Hang hang on a second. Arturo
KT: in his red jumpsuit with the scissors. Oh. It seems like Jordan Peele got some inspiration.
Oti: And he and he stabbed Denver in the back. He did. He did.
KT: He did. Why didn't I I wouldn't call it a stab, but he attempted.
Oti: He attempted to stab Denver in the back. He attempted.
KT: He's such a weasel. He's such a slippery, slimy character at every He's
Oti: the survivor. Like, you'd want to feel you'd be you'd be able to handle such a situation like Arturo.
KT: You know what? I would respect it if he was competent, but it seemed like he was sloppy, but he still managed to survive. That's not fair.
Oti: Yeah. He's he's he's got nine lives here. Yeah. It's crazy.
KT: It is crazy. Nairobi.
Oti: Most favorite character in this.
KT: She was a slow burn, though. And it
Oti: No. I liked her the minute.
KT: No. No. No. It it it might not be her, but I'm just saying there were so many characters to introduce. I kind of didn't really pay attention to her until, you know, further into season one is my point.
Oti: I think I paid attention to her just because her name was Nairobi. But
KT: Kenya in the house. But
Oti: you you could feel you could see her her she wasn't the leader, but she was she didn't scare off responsibility. Sure. And when Berlin was acting up, she'd be the one to bang at Berlin's face. Hey. This is not right. You can't do this. Wasn't afraid to pull out a gun and pointing it to anyone that she thought was stepping out of line. She had gall
KT: and she was fearless.
Oti: So her backstory is quite sad. She lost a kid and she's battling to
KT: Well, she's trying to get back to her kid. Yeah. She's trying to get back to her kid. And she but she had this resilience and she had this fearlessness that was very much to be admired. And, you know, she still has a daughter that she's hoping to go back to, but that doesn't stop her from, as you say, standing up for what's right. She was really the key point in advocating for Alison.
Oti: Yeah. But you know what? She was quite close with that and she only really opened up to Tokyo.
KT: Who came and used that
Oti: and just threw it in her face like The worst person. At that moment, I was like, fucking hell. Someone shoot Tokyo. Yeah. It was really disgusting. She's she's,
KT: venturing into Joffrey territory.
Oti: Joffrey from Game of Thrones?
KT: Yes. Yes.
Oti: Well, not that hateable, but, you know, somewhere between Skyler and
KT: Oh, but Nairobi, very solid character. She constantly tried to get in the professor's pants.
Oti: Yeah. More than once. Why, though? He just liked them smart. There's this thing with glasses and just being smart and geeky.
KT: Yeah. It's doing it for me right now. Yeah. I know. I can tell. So do you wanna do you wanna talk about, actually, no. Before we talk about, more of the main characters, let's talk about Angel.
Oti: Angel?
KT: Angel. Well, let's call him Angel. And for all of our Spanish speaking listeners, lo siento means I'm sorry. So that's as far as I go. But he is the colleague of Raquel. It is to believe that they've had one night of passion Yep. Years ago. Ages ago. And he's just not letting it go. So he actually becomes quite pivotal near to the end of season one. So I just wanted to talk about it. So we
KT: say season one even though it was released as one series in Italy. But because it's continuing on Netflix, we'll just call it season one. But near the end of season one is where the crash happens Mhmm. With Angel and where he leaves the voicemails. So I just wanted to spend a bit of time talking about him.
Oti: Yeah. So he's hung up on Raquel. They had this night of passion. Raquel didn't really reciprocate the feelings. It was just more of a one night stand kind of thing. So he's battling this or he's not really battling. He doesn't want to advance his career. She's he's tied pretty much to Raquel, and everything he's done in his life from that one night of passion has been for Raquel. Everything for Raquel.
KT: Not his wife and kids?
Oti: Not for his wife and kids. They're just all secondary.
KT: Well, that's okay. It's true. Yeah. So here's our guy. Don't be don't be coy. You were backing your best friend Arturo. Yeah. And loving the mistress. He's been put in the friend zone.
Oti: So
KT: But let no. Let's talk about this without getting too PC or too feminist. One night of looking at him, probably not the best sex, but, you know, one night of relations with a man. Why do you feel like you're entitled to that woman just because you've had one night of sex with her?
Oti: Because you're better than the ex husband who was cheating on you with the sister. Yes.
KT: But you also have scenarios where you have these guys like, oh, I'm so nice. I'm so unassuming. But secretly, you wanna fuck it raw every single time.
Oti: Can you not be nice and want to fuck someone raw?
KT: Well, you can, but I'm not giving Angel that grace. It's just
Oti: he's had a crush on this lady. And So? Raquel finally gives it up. Of course, he's going to be hooked on that. I don't if You you Raquel have knew that.
KT: You have your crush on Halle Berry, but it doesn't mean she's gonna give it up.
Oti: Oh, just wait.
KT: Okay. For for our dedicated handful of listeners, if you're one of them Halle Berry, feel free. Here's your invitation. We cordially invite you.
Oti: But I feel sorry for him. He's he's not Raquel doesn't really see him as as a romantic partner, which is sad, and which is why he's even more diligent when the professor starts
KT: with the off as a jilted lover at that point.
Oti: Regardless. But he's the one that actually started breaking the case. He took a teaspoon from the professor's dingy workshop or whatever you wanna call it. Yeah. The cider. And he knew the cider was fake from the get go. Yeah. Like, he's from a background where the I think his parents or grandparents used to own a side of
KT: Cidery. Let's call it a cidery.
Oti: Let's go with that. And he knew his side is wrong you know. He notices. He takes the professor's fingerprints, sends it to the lab for analysis, and he gets into a crash before
KT: he could And, like tell anyone about this. I felt like even then, we knew, like, you know you're old when you actually wanna know more details about how he sourced the apples and how And how the cider the cidery works. Right? But this is actually a perfect example of what I was pointing to earlier because it felt like El Profesor was smart when a narrative warranted it. Because Angel, even though he was amazing and he was very capable, he literally just followed El Profesor into that place. The same
KT: granted, it it looked like a cidery at the time, but that's the same place that he has his bunker and where he has the phone as well. So if El Profesor is so smart, first of all, how did he get tailed and not notice that Angel was following him? And second of all, why would he set up his base at the same fucking place that his decoy is?
Oti: You hide in plain sight. That's the number one rule of
KT: hiding. Yeah. But in that case, it wasn't really hiding it because it was literally there. Plain sight.
Oti: Like, he he had the front of the shop where he had all the cider and then the back the back end he had the, you know, control tower where he could monitor everything. Uh-huh. But I had no qualms with that.
KT: I've got the qualms.
Oti: He was followed. He was followed because there was no reason for him to hide. He's innocent. He's just another civilian. He had his backstory with the cidery.
KT: That doesn't answer how he got tailed. He can tell anyone.
KT: He should have known that he was being tailed. What's his background? Because, El Profesor, his father robbed banks. And this was actually his father's plan, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So he should have been smarter to know that someone was tailing him. Just because you're from Kenya and Nairobi loved El Profesor doesn't mean you need to side with him every time.
Oti: Oh, siding with him. I'm just saying he had nothing to hide.
Oti: If someone follows him, he's following him as civilian.
KT: Was he without blemish? Was he without flaw?
Oti: He had his flaws. He had his flaws, and we'll come to that. But for this, I'm not holding it against him at all.
KT: Okay. Well, before we move on, because we were talking about Angel,
KT: he left so many messages on Raquel. Raquel's mobile, on Raquel mom's home phone, and on the I don't know what you call it. Their their headquarters in the tent. He left so many messages on there. How was it that if not Raquel, no one else intercepted those calls except for Raquel's mom that has Alzheimer's? Convenient.
Oti: She didn't want to listen to her voice messages because she assumed that Angel is dying. And the first punch like the first 10 messages were pretty brutal. They were just about it was just sounded in like a jealous jilted lava ex lover
KT: or stalker. But as you said, he did kick off the investigation.
Oti: Yeah. But nothing about the first 10 messages had anything to do with the investigation. It was just You were him calling Raquel a bitch, and I loved you. I did I followed you everywhere. I protected you. Eggplant. Eggplant. You up? Yeah. So
KT: no. I don't blame her for not listening to the calls. I just thought that was a convenient plot hole. There Let's just leave it because I could go on day in and day out about this. But let's focus on some other characters. Is there anyone you wanna particularly go to?
Oti: Berlin.
KT: Oh, can we leave Berlin till last, actually?
Oti: Oh, so who do you wanna talk to him about that?
KT: Professor, is there anything else you wanted to talk about with him?
Oti: No. He's he's we know he's smart. He's had enough time to plan everything through. Obviously To connect to plan most of it through, to connect most of And the he's one of his he's like Scofield in that fact well less Scofield but you know if Scofield had a bad day Oh,
KT: no but then I don't think professor really got his hands as dirty as Scofield did.
Oti: What do you mean? Scofield got
KT: No. I'm saying professor. He set everything up. He orchestrated all of it, but he wasn't really on the ground for a lot of it.
Oti: Yeah. True. Scofield would probably have gone into the mint to be part of the action. But in a lot of ways, he's trying to orchestrate all this because he feels like he needs to control the outside aspects of it as well Mhmm. Which is understandable and I think which is genius. Yeah. So that when you get information about an evidence,
Oti: a piece of evidence out there that needs to be get get rid of, you you you can really just dash there, get rid of it as quickly as possible, and Uh-huh. Make the FBI run run around chasing their tails.
KT: Side character that we haven't talked about is Alison's teacher.
Oti: So we have the teacher Yep. Who's there. And she I think she just did what she could do at the moment. She tried to keep the peace, tried to hide the students and trying to keep her safe when Alison went missing or Alison was taken to another room. She tried to intervene and tried to get her back with the other students Uh-huh. But that didn't work out. But she always was at the forefront of trying to get things happen. And she also tried to liaise with Arturo
Oti: by, you know, trying to see how they could best escape.
KT: So The Sisterhood of the Traveling Scissors?
Oti: Yep. Alexis Bledel will be proud.
KT: To be fair, she she was quite brave because, you know, to be a teacher, you've gotta have some sort of heart. Right? Yeah. But even then, like, in a hostage situation,
KT: it's very admirable that
Oti: And I'm assuming the teachers are also underpaid. So it's quite admirable. I think that's probably universal,
KT: which is sad. Yeah. Right? But in that moment, like, it's very admirable that she kept putting the kids interests in front of her own.
Oti: Yeah. True. Most of us will all be thinking about number one, you know?
KT: And I'm number one. Right? He laughed with denial. I think the time has come, kids, for us to talk about Berlin, the best character in this series.
Oti: Mm-mm. Without a doubt. I'm one of the strongest characters we've seen in any show. You agree with me?
KT: Fuck. Well, that's not fun. I thought we were gonna fight. Oh, I do not agree. Put your dukes up. Pretty much. So I I I don't know. I think in time, I will be less apprehensive about spoilers. But if you haven't watched Money Heist, we've been quite courteous so far, but you need to dial away now. Okay. So now that they finally left the podcast all of these minutes in, Berlin, the most solid character in this series turns out to be the older brother of El Profesor.
KT: We should have seen it coming.
Oti: I saw it coming.
KT: How dare you? How dare you, sir. How dare you? I was trying to lump you with one of the plebs as well. But How dare you besmirch me in my household.
Oti: Yes. You did see it coming. I didn't. Not from the start, though.
KT: Not from the start. So with Berlin, I don't think it was until maybe mid part one or the start of part two where we learned that he was sickly Mhmm. And he needed his daily boosts. Yeah. That because that definitely wasn't revealed at the start of the series. And as the series progressed, we started to learn more and more about Berlin. And not necessarily the cloth that he was cut from, more about the man that he was today in the series. But as as we kept talking and when Professor was talking to Raquel
KT: post coitus, probably more coitus than Game of Thrones at this point. I'm very disappointed. Sorry, guys. We just well, I just started watching Game of Thrones, and Oti's watched it quite a few times. And I'm very disappointed at the lack of d six that goes on. But let's get back to let's get back to La Casa de Papel or Money Heist. When he wasn't professor wasn't really confiding. He was more just by the way, you know, telling his story about his father. So we we heard that quite early on that his father had ambitions
KT: beyond his own life, and professor chose to take it on. So we heard that quite early, but then he continued to give more of himself. And in this particular instance, he talked about how his brother was sickly. And, you know, we have a whole podcast about watching TV and movies. Right? In that moment, I just decided to theorize, oh, I bet you any money. Berlin is the older brother of professor. And what happened, babe?
Oti: It turned out to be true.
KT: I'm the people's champ. What can I say?
Oti: Mhmm. Well, how did you see Berlin? What did you think of him as a character in terms of his relationship with his crewmates and the reason he was set out as a leader by the professor?
KT: He may not be the man that you want behind your back, but he's always the man that you want in front of you. Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. He's there to get the job done. And we've we we actually, maybe not on this podcast, but just through our viewership, we constantly talk about characters that, you know, their their their sense of morals are either nonexistent or they are thin compared to the leader. But when you are leading an army
KT: or you are ruling a people, you need to have someone on your team that is willing to do anything to go further than you ever would in order to maintain your rulership, and that is Berlin.
Oti: He is. He not that he doesn't have emotions or whatever, but he everything is a plan and everything is a job to him. Mhmm. Regardless of what's happening, the external noises, he just blocks it out. It doesn't matter. Stick to the plan. This is what we do. If it doesn't work, we have plan b and c. Mhmm. And he kept on saying that to the people when they were starting to freak out that the professor hadn't called them in, what, almost twenty four hours. Uh-huh.
Oti: It wasn't twenty four yet. But Berlin was always there. Come. Mhmm. I've got this. If it doesn't work, we'll do plan b. But I think most of that would also have to be with him being terminally ill. Like, if he wasn't He was he was ready to go down in a blaze of glory.
KT: Rampage.
Oti: If he if he wasn't terminally ill, I feel like he would he would have turned that down a bit.
KT: He would've been so You reckon? I don't think so. I feel like Berlin was part Viking, and he was ready to die a glorious death. Subtle plug. If you haven't watched our episode of Vikings and you've watched the series so far, go and check it out.
Oti: Yeah. There's more Ivar the Boneless in this.
KT: I'm just going to write this down in my Death Note. What are you doing in an hour's time? Planning or dying?
Oti: Nope. It's not part of time for me today.
KT: Oh, but Berlin, he had so much depth. And the way that he ruled was, yes, out of fear, but it was also without question. He was kind of
Oti: under
KT: authoritative. Yeah. Yeah. He was kind of under the leadership of, I fucking told you what to do. Go and fucking do it. I'm not gonna paint you a picture. Just go and do what I told you do. Gonna explain shit. No. No. And I I guess that was part of his armor in order for him to be able to be himself because there was this vulnerability in him as well because he was a dying man.
Oti: Yeah. And what did you think about the cheek he was fucking? What was it? One of the hostages.
KT: I
Oti: you know? He was looking for some sort of not relationship per se, but companionship.
KT: I think it was beyond the physical. Definitely. Yeah. It felt like he just wanted someone to be around him before he died. But, you know, a lot of the time, you hear about sex workers saying, you know, some of their clients don't even have sex. It's that companionship that you're talking about.
Oti: You know what I mean? Yeah. They need to be getting 50% discount, though. Just saying.
KT: Hey, man. You know, they they can fulfill you in many ways. It doesn't always have to be stanky ass, raw dogging ass.
Oti: Oh, raw dogging ass. The sex. That's from Shrill. Right? Aidy Bryant's weird boyfriend referring to the sexes raw dogging because he likes it.
KT: Oh, yeah. He did, didn't he?
Oti: Yeah.
KT: Yeah. He did. Mhmm. Yeah. So, actually, check out Shrill. We've tried it. It's quite good. It's not bad. Yeah. But let's not let leak into our lovely chat about Money Heist. So going back to Berlin, he had he was essentially the iceberg of the Titanic. You didn't see how much he had beneath the surface. Because he was shouldering a lot of dimension. And in his acting alone, I don't know, he was just so charismatic. Just like in Black Panther when I talked about Jamie Foxx's natural charisma upside down in Django Unchained. Right?
KT: There was something about Berlin that you just rooted for.
Oti: Yeah. Definitely. He's he's likable. Mhmm. Which is weird because for such characters who are like Berlin, they're not as charismatic.
KT: I think it depends on the actor. So shout outs to the casting for the show. Definitely. They
Oti: whoever was the casting director really did a good job on this.
KT: Definitely. But, yeah, with Berlin, there was so much depth that was going on beneath the surface. But I felt like I felt like we were going to get there. You know, even from the start of the series, I wasn't really sure where we're going, but I was happy that Berlin was on the journey with us. So
Oti: we get this moment with Berlin and the professor Uh-huh. Singing. Oh. Do you remember just how much you cried?
KT: Well, the the the good thing is, and I'm pretty sure it was deliberate, that Bella Ciao song was played throughout the series. And when they had the reveal between El Profesor and Berlin, it pretty much so, you know, you have this series about El Profesor and the foundation of him trying to realize his father's dream, albeit a criminal one, but he's trying to realize his father's ambitious dream. The Professor brings all of the people with their expertise together to infiltrate the mint and be able to pull off the biggest heist in history.
KT: And you have all along his brother by his side. And you have that scene where you have El Profesor and, Berlin sitting at that table drinking wine, and they start to sing. Ciao.
Oti: Bella Ciao. Bella Bella Ciao. Ciao.
KT: And it becomes this crescendo, not just to the series, but to the acknowledgment of their brotherhood.
Oti: Of their love for each other.
KT: Of their love for each other, if you'll pardon the pun. So according to Wikipedia, this is an anti fascist song, that was quite famous. And even once it was rereleased as a part of this series, it became in the top charts as well. But, essentially, it follows the narrative of someone that is trying to, pretty much escape the invader. In this case, they're talking about German troops, and what becomes of this person and how, you know, if they come for me, please bury me in a mountain under the shadow of a wonderful flower.
KT: And, you know, all of the people passing by will say, what a wonderful flower. And I just wanna read the last verse of that. And this is the flower of the partisan. Goodbye, my beautiful. Goodbye, my beautiful. Goodbye. Dead for our freedom. And this is the flower of the partisan, dead for our freedom.
Oti: Mm-mm. That is some strong words. Yeah. Yeah.
KT: And it's you know, we you know, the part of the reason why we started this podcast is because we watch a lot of TV shows and a lot of movies pretty much just to escape the day to day sort of droning of life. But even though we watch a lot of things, not a not a lot of shows or movies touch us or remain with us after we watch it. And Money Heist was so beautifully stitched together in the tapestry of the narrative. The writing was great.
KT: The acting was great. The use of the Bella Ciao throughout the series was phenomenal.
Oti: I agree. A 100%.
KT: It would definitely be on my lists of, you know, things that people should watch. I we don't quite understand it because we watch a lot of foreign sort of films and TVs and also animes as well. So we are well versed in subtitles. You know? We we're also conscious of the food that we can eat while we're reading subtitles. But we we do also understand that there there are some viewers out there that do have an aversion to reading subtitles. So this is definitely one to whet your palate.
Oti: Or if you're on watching it on Netflix, you could also just change the audio to English if that's your thing.
KT: No, sir. We do not stan dubs in this household.
Oti: Well, everyone likes reading subtitles. There's just an option for you dub lovers out there.
KT: I guess so. And, we definitely need to cover an anime because we haven't talk we haven't covered an anime at all. But the reason why I bring that up is sometimes hearing hearing, not not not actually listening, but hearing, hearing the language in its intended purpose is more powerful and you get more inflection and you get more dimension to the story than to just hear it in an English version. You know what I mean? Sometimes it doesn't translate if you pardon the pun as well.
Oti: True. And and it's part of the experience. Right? Yeah. Like the tonal variations are quite unique and interesting and it engages, it captures you, it takes you into it it takes you to a different world. Like, it's just it transcends what it transcends how it will be just if it was in English.
KT: Because it's it's their words and it's their language. And they know how to exactly. Bring the
Oti: Yeah. Yeah. So if subtitles isn't your thing, just try it out and you will love it.
KT: But if you watch dubs, you know, we we welcome you with both arms.
Oti: Maybe just one arm.
KT: Yeah. One arm each. Both arms. And stick around. We we promise that you will slowly start to love subs. And, you know, we're we're not gonna we're not gonna turn people away out of our manger, so to say.
Oti: True. So, the show part two ends when they've successfully escaped.
KT: Yes. And I was hoping Tokyo will get sniper shot from a roof or something.
Oti: And Raquel is meeting the professor the professor in some island. Where is it? It's Palawan in The Philippines. Yes.
KT: In The Philippines.
Oti: In The Philippines. So it's kind of like a happy ending for most. And
KT: I was content with that. It do you know what? Like, it kind of felt like that was it. And even on the Spanish series, it was only set out to be what it is now. A two parter. The no. But it was even just one series with 15 episodes. Because it pretty much just closed the chapter Yeah. There. Right? Which I I guess do you first of all, what do you think about expanding the story? Possibly expanding it because what else are you gonna talk about?
KT: And second of all, should it just have ended the way that it ended?
Oti: We've seen a lot of shows cling on to cling on by the skin of the teeth. Yeah. Try to do season after season when you know it's way past it. Yeah. And it's sad. And to a point where I feel like me watching Money Heist is more towards the fact that it kept me engaged for two seasons. Uh-huh. I'm not sure what they're going to do for this because I don't think they'll be doing another heist. Yeah. Surely not.
KT: Well, it might be like Prison Break.
Oti: Trying
KT: to capture other people doing that. Prison Break was good, though. Just the first season. Just the first season. Like They should've just left it alone. Yeah. But
Oti: I understood the second season of them trying to be on the run. Uh-huh. But it should have just ended after that.
KT: Professor on the run.
Oti: But whatever it is that Netflix has in store for this,
KT: hope it's worth And
Oti: we hope it's worth it. I hope it's worth it. It's a solid series that doesn't need me to be tarnished by having additional episodes that just bloat the whole thing.
KT: Because we are human. So even even when we love something and it ends, we're screaming out, please give us more. Give us more. But, you know, the sensible side of us is like, let's just leave it. You know? Like, we had some fun. It ended well. Let's just leave it alone. So I guess, you know, the jury is out until Netflix comes out with a third part.
KT: In the teaser sort of trailer, it's not really a trailer. It's more of them coming back for a table read. We see Berlin at the table read. So it's very exciting, and I'm not sure where we're going to go. It's probably flashbacks. This show is notorious for flashbacks. Yeah. So it it it may well just be that. Probably will just be that. But then what becomes of Raquel? Right? Like, there's a lot up in the air. Yeah. I don't think Raquel would
KT: hang up or buy become a criminal now. But she she kind of has. She she's abandoned a criminal. No. No. No. But she's at least abandoned her life because she's associating with a well known oh, I don't know if he's known, but he's she's associating with, to her knowledge, a criminal. Yeah. And she loves a kid so much, but she ran off to be with that man. But, you know, that's another story for another day.
Oti: Well, she does need love. So sometimes you just have to look after yourself. I guess so. And the husband's always there so shared custody isn't that bad.
KT: Any final thoughts before we close off?
Oti: I just hope they do a better job with the third season than they've done with things they've tried to reprise like Arrested Development, which I felt was a bit below par.
KT: But don't forget, there's always money in the banana stand.
Oti: Yes, Job. And Fuller House. Ugh.
KT: So I'm not really Did anyone really expect anything out of Fuller House, though? Yeah. I don't know.
Oti: Somehow I expected it to be different, but it's it is different, but just the same. You know? Like, it's But
KT: nostalgia is nostalgia for a reason. By definition, it's reminiscing on what was, not dredging it back from the past into the present.
Oti: True. And there are a lot of shows coming back. We have Bel Air coming back.
KT: No. I think that was just the fan made trailer.
Oti: You reckon? Yeah. No. It's actually happening.
KT: Okay. Will you be watching that yourself? Stick out for the Oti only podcast episode.
Oti: Alright, guys.
KT: So let's wrap up with the name of our podcast For Your Reference because we do watch a lot of things. It's essentially our segment to cite our sources or give you suggestions on what you might enjoy watching if you like this or if you didn't like this.
Oti: I will do the most obvious reference, and that is Prison Break because you have two protagonists who control who want to control everything that's happening in the show by thinking of clever ideas, clever plans, and how they interact with members who are not as clever, who are not as smart, and trying to mitigate those situations. So it was definitely something that that you need to watch, especially the first season just for its brilliant, brilliant writing, and it's one of the salt most solid seasons that you'll ever see on TV to date. Nice.
KT: But in your suggestion, you'll have to watch all seasons of Prison Break, even the terrible ones.
Oti: If you want to. But Nani? If you've seen the first one, you can just pretend you've watched the whole thing. Okay.
KT: And this week, for my For Your Reference, I'm going on a bit of a different tangent. So, you know, Money Heist was a very smartly written show. A lot of the time, you're talking about bank heists, you know, which are for the common plebs out there. They went to the source where you actually print the money. And we didn't give Nairobi enough accolades because she was paramount to that. Amazing. So what I would recommend if you enjoyed watching Money Heist, another Netflix show, Dirty Money. So that pretty much takes different topics every episode.
KT: The first one is about Volkswagen and the carbon emissions that they talk about. We've also got an episode about Shkreli. So it's not necessarily about, you know, full on blue collar crime, but it's still people taking advantage of the system and committing crimes in a way that they felt like they could get away with it.
Oti: Yeah, man. It's real life, so there you go.
KT: Yeah. So thank you so much for listening, you guys. We would strongly encourage you to check out some more foreign cinema and some more foreign film because you you essentially expand your repertoire, of your viewing experience. We are on main sort of podcast mediums. We're on iTunes, Spotify, TuneIn, Google Podcasts, and a whole lot of others. Check our website for more details. We're also on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook.
Oti: Remember, you can write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. See you guys. Bye.
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