Love & Other Crimes, The Travel Companion, Mother Mary & Finding Emily

Full transcript of Love & Other Crimes, The Travel Companion, Mother Mary & Finding Emily.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, and it's another. Oti, have you defrosted from the Iceman trilogies?

0:09Oti: Getting there.

0:11KT: I think that hurt more than the bees in Tony Todd's mouth. Rest in peace. Go watch Candyman instead, friends and lovers. Uh, I'm sure you can find Oti's burner account if you wanna talk about Drake's releases. I am very delusional, and I'm waiting for a Kendrick, uh, mixtape drop throwaway, uh, pew-pews, and I'm very excited. But anyway, friends and lovers, thank you for joining us outside of the, our weekly release. We've got a Ref Max for you before we gear up with Sydney Film Festival, which is very exciting. Uh, grab a snack, uh, maybe, maybe one that doesn't take too long to digest. Uh, we're gonna give you a nice and tight Ref Max this week. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and delectable lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your hosts, KT—

1:02Oti: And Oti.

1:04KT: Man, it feels like we've. It's been a while since we've done one, hey?

1:07Oti: Yeah. So— Time to get the pen out.

1:10KT: It's nice to get the pen out. I have a rotten review, and I'm very excited. Not since One Battle After Another, but I don't know if we're gonna get that heated, today. But thank you friends and lovers, uh, for joining us and being with us day one, and today can be day one as well. We love you, we love you. shout-outs to Justin and the team. Reached out to Oti specifically.

1:32Oti: Mm.

1:33KT: Uh, thank you so much for reaching out. We are starting off with a short film today, Love and Other Crimes, a short film. It's around 22 minutes from memory?

1:42Oti: Yeah.

1:42KT: Yeah. Take us away. Non-spoiler, my love.

1:46Oti: With grounded characters and a compelling premise, Love and Other Crimes packs intrigue, romance, and tension into a short runtime, leaving you wanting more.

1:57KT: Yeah. Yeah? While the story started off interesting, the lead-up to the premise of the story felt as if it could've occurred sooner given the format of short film. Okay. Appreciated the world building and how real the characters felt. I feel like we're saying the same thing. Maybe it was experienced differently. Feel free to give me your full thoughts.

2:24Oti: I felt like the perspective of. I was bought into the story quite early. I knew where it was going, and I, I was like, "Okay,I'm bought into the experiences of this guy."

2:36KT: Uh-huh.

2:36Oti: So every. From then on, everything that transpired, at least the world building, was falling into place quite nicely.

2:47KT: In a short film, it was 22 minutes, so even you're saying you knew where it was going—

2:53Oti: Which isn't a slight on—

2:54KT: No, but I mean, like, it could have gotten there sooner is w- what my pull quote

2:58Oti: I get that, but I think the payoff of the end, 'cause you're not spoiling anything, I think the payoff of the end of the, of the short felt like, oh, okay, I felt like the reward w- was worthy of the wait.

3:15KT: Okay. I, um, yeah, I, I think in the context of a short film it could have been a bit tighter because, like you said, it's not even a bad thing. It's like you've got characters, they have something driving them, and we're not necessarily meandered, but I think we could have trimmed a little bit of the start to get to, the premise. And friends and lovers, 'cause we're not spoiling it, it did m- it did remind me of Alicia Keys' You Don't Know My Name, 'cause most of their love— romance connection were

3:46Oti: at

3:47KT: her work, which I'm glad you didn't stalk her outside of her workplace.

3:50Oti: Yeah.

3:51KT: Um, but it was very reminiscent of that, and I'm like, "Don't put her through all of that. She's not, she's not about that life." "And apparently you're not about that life either." So I— I don't know. Like, it was cool. I think it was more like a taster of what a feature film could be, but I think it was shot really well. You know, I think one of the cool things is we get, you know, indie produced, uh, short films, feature films, um, which is really cool. Like, we have filmmakers reach out to us directly, so in that sense it was shot really great. I, I think it was very interesting visually as well. I thought the characters looked really cool, too. I, I think the premise was just a bit long for the format of a short film.

4:35Oti: Yeah, fair enough.

4:36KT: Uh, moving on to another indie produced, this time it's a feature film. Shout outs to Travis, they're currently, uh, screening this around the country, as in the US, um, which is really cool to see. And I overall enjoyed this, but I guess let's get into our pull quotes, non-spoiler. friends and lovers, take us away, my love.

4:59Oti: "Few films are this entertainingly infuriating." "The Travel Companion captures selfishness and complacency in friendships, making every small bit of cha- character growth feel oddly rewarding."

5:13KT: I love it, 'cause we pretty much had the same quote.

5:16Oti: Mm.

5:17KT: But we didn't need to. Yeah, like, we didn't even discuss it beforehand.

5:21KT: "The best moments in this film are equally the most frustrating, which is very relatable. The protagonist was oblivious to his greed, and though he was challenged, remained so for most of the runtime. Overall, an entertaining watch."

5:38Oti: Yeah Oh my word

5:41KT: In another world, in an, with another pen, with another lens, with different performances, this could have been'Cause you were infuriating, I were frustrating. In another world, in a different, with a different take, this could have been a really fucking frustrating movie. But it was like frustrating but also fun. Like, it, it was, it was rewarding, as, as you say as well.

6:06Oti: I didn't get their friendship. I didn't understand—

6:10KT: But I think you just keep people around in your life, and it made— It, it made,

6:13Oti: it made sense. Um, ah, this is a spoiler, but the explanation as to why this was tolerated for so long is because, I, I'm not gonna spoil it, but it made so much sense. I was like, "Oh, that is why it's not necessarily actively keeping that friendship afloat, it's just-"

6:31KT: Yeah. But that's what I mean. It's also very relatable. Like, we might have people, friends, family in our life that until they do something really bad, until they cross the line completely, they might have very annoying, beneficial ways for themselves, but you keep them around. Just tol— And if you're not—

6:50Oti: You tolerate

6:51KT: them but if not, then maybe we're them, you know?

6:54Oti: Like

6:55KT: every, like, it's. And, and I think that's part of what I really enjoyed, about this film. I think it's sometimes, it's not necessarily boundaries, it's just like you would hope people act right so you don't need to correct them. Like, it was very interesting seeing, you know, Simon finding a way to, I guess, distract from himself and try and put the onus away from him, and yeah, it was really interesting. I, I really enjoyed it. I person— I, like I said, I personally feel like, 'cause I don't think there's anything wrong with having a character that's not perfect or frustrating, but usually you would balance it out in the world or with the character. So he was definitely challenged, which I think was very good, like, from a writing and performance point of view, but he was so fucking stubborn and he went like there was no growth from him. So a few of the scenes were a bit same, same after a while, I, I guess is my main, if I were to have a critique. It stalled. Yeah. It stalled

7:56Oti: in, in, in its infu- infuriatingly sort of narrative, but I think I've never celebrated— The, my, the tiniest of character growths I've ever seen in movie history.

8:11KT: Because even the way, um, even the way he would position it as Beatrice coming in and influencing Bruce, it's like, "Nah, man, you were a shit friend from the start." Like, you can't. It's like, "Oh, this was just like your ex before," and it's like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, even within them and their friendship. And then you wonder, like, self-awareness is such a gift, but being around people that lack self-awareness, that isn't, that's a, a curse, I guess.

8:39Oti: Yeah. Bro, you need to Geez, man. '

8:43KT: Cause how is it everyone's problem but you? I have to do it. I have to reference Lawrence from Insecure. I'm so sorry. Nah, don't even. Don't

8:52Oti: even. I'm

8:53KT: so sorry.

8:54Oti: Differently. D- not even the same environment at all. Like—

8:58KT: Excuse me, this is a co-hosted podcast, and that's how I feel, and I'm gonna talk about My point is, everything was at his disposal, uh, with Simon, and ev- and nothing was his fault, right? He felt entitled to everything, and nothing was his fault. The reason why his life was going a particular way, you know, his day job was a videographer, and he point blank said to the boss's face, "Yeah, I'm not here, like, this, this is bullshit. Like, I'm only here for now, but I really, I've really got aspirations," right? And it was so interesting. Like, I, I won't say too much about other characters, but it was so interesting at the way Simon, he was so disgusted by other characters without realizing he was similar to them. Yeah.

9:46Oti: I think the, the, the biggest part for me is the fact that he was Black made it even more annoying. I was like, "Ugh, get this man out of here."

10:00KT: Is that not the representation you want to see in the

10:03Oti: world? No, I don't, I

10:05KT: don't want that. Speaking of, actually, and I think this is. Not I think. This is what really hooked me when we first started watching The Travel Companion, was the first scene. Because, you know, we love a film festival. We also love watching a Q&A panel at a film festival, and the way that that was'Cause it's one of those things, what do they say? Like, show, don't tell. It's one of those things where, you know, like, even, you know, with cuts to DEI, like, a lot of Black-led shows, we're still waiting for Rap Sh!t to get picked up somewhere else. even, like, women-led Minx, we're waiting for that to get picked up somewhere else. But you know how the industry is, and even if there is popularity, they just get cut for whatever reason. It gets scary, right? So when they had the film panel and they were going down the line talking about the way things have been shot or whatever, I don't think Simon even got his chance, did he?

10:59Oti: He didn't

11:00KT: But he was there for diversity, so they got theirs Ah, yeah. But I just, I really enjoyed it, and, you know, we're not filmmakers, but we do enjoy, you know, doing this podcast and watching films, and it was just so fulfilling. Like, there were so many things in this film, aside from the story, that was just very satisfying. It was such, obviously frustrating. It was s- such a frustrating, but also a great watch.

11:25Oti: Yeah. Yeah. A, a, a very confusing film for the emotions, but wow, was it something.

11:33KT: But it's like, it's also hard to, like, get films made, and I think even doing, like, interviews for Sydney Film Festival, we've started to become a bit more conscious of that. But then I guess you don't wanna know how annoying and snively the filmmakers— can be, like Simon, um, in this particular case. But yeah, had such a great time. Anything else, my love? No. Hoo, hoo, hoo. Um, shouts to Nixco and A24. you know, we had a lot of joy, so now we're gonna get into something. I'm just saying that this is a safe space, Oti, because I did not regard this very well— Mm and I need you to know that. but friends and lovers, we are covering Mother Mary. Uh, non-spoilers, my love. Oh, you took a breath.

12:22Oti: Mother Mary starts off weaving threads of what feels like a beautifully choreographed dance between cinematic flair and good performances. The strange thing is you see it all, and yet I found it hard to care.

12:38KT: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. While beauty is in the eye of the beholder, the lens of this world didn't seem to love it either. Mm. The narrative lacked emotional depth by not establishing the bond, so the well-performed roles felt wasted. Yeah. So let's, let's start this off top. David Lowery, I'm sure there's no relation to Michael—

13:05Oti: Mike Lowrey.

13:06KT: You knew exactly where I was going, my love. Mm-hmm. if we can, if we can disclose and, and be vulnerable on, on the main podcast, we started The Green Knight and didn't fucking finish it, did we? Mm-mm. So surprise to us, shout-outs to Tim, love you, TimPoPoM Podcast. I'm pretty sure their review for Mother Mary is up, uh, now. Friends and lovers, go and check it out. surprise to me when he said it was the same, the same hands that made The Green Knight is the same people that made Mother Mary. I don't fucking care about visual films. I feel like, you know, however you felt about Infinity Pool— The more we watch films like this, I'm like, "Bro, you sh- you need to go back and give Infinity Pool more points." 'Cause as frustrating as it was, there was still a leading narrative, and dare I say, there was still emotion in Infinity Pool. You cared.

13:56Oti: Yeah. You, you cared about the characters, you cared about where the story was going. You cared about and this is why. Like, one of the things that you said while we watched Us was you could see Lupita's acting, you could buy into the emotion, you could see that she's acting her ass off.

14:14KT: Yeah.

14:14Oti: But to what extent?

14:16KT: To what purpose?

14:18Oti: I, I felt the same thing Michaela Coel.

14:21KT: And you know what? Just to be clear, we w- we didn't watch the trailer. Nary a synopsis was read. All we saw, Michaela Coel, yeah, Anne Hathaway, cool. This is like One Battle After Another again. I knew Michaela Coel was in this. That's why we went and watched it. But yeah, like, and that's part of the problem because from a performance point of view, from Anne Hathaway and Michaela Coel's point of view, I can see why they signed onto this film. Because from a performance point of view, it's very interesting for them. Yeah. Right? You, you could tell they have the— Same way with Lupita the acting chops all pew, pew, pew, shooting all across. Same way with Lupita, and even Riz Ahmed. We, most recently we did Bait as well, right? But it doesn't, like you said in your pull quote, it, it, it, it wove together a promise of something, and we never necessarily got there. I don't know Mike Lowrey. I wouldn't go so far as to say he doesn't love women, but the lens. No, but one— No, but Friends and Lovers, we are also a podcast, like, aside from me being beautiful, delicious, uh, in my, in my woman, uh, embodiment, we also center female-led stories from a, from a woman's lens. Like P-Valley, the first season, every director was a woman, and you could tell. Mm. You can tell when a woman has directed something or, or someone that loves women has directed something because it doesn't have that male gaze zooming up on the upskirts right into the, the nipple hair on the areola, right? You're not. Like, it's not shot in a way. And even this, like, bro, Mother Mary, Anne Hathaway, is a pop star, right? Michaela Coel is, like, a really cool, like, like, designer. She, she, she de- she deals with textiles and fabrics. How glamorous and fun, not even camp, like, how gorgeous would that be from, like, to see women embody that? Mm. And it was so dull and dry, like a shareholder quarterly meeting. Fuck off, bro. Even the costumes weren't And I don't know about the crew, so maybe women were involved. But I'm saying, like, there was no real. Like, f- so for example, Kokuho. If we wanna make it genderless. Like, Kokuho was done so beautifully, and there was a lot of pageantry, and there was a lot of love from the lens of performance, right? We never got that in this film. Even the costumes got boring after a while. They just got, like, say for example, when you're building your little Sim, it had, uh, pop star one, pop star two, pop star three, and then put a little crown, whoop-de-dee, we're done. It did feel like that. It was so same-samey. It was so boring. Oh, my God. And you couldn't even have a, a, a, a blood-soaked tampon of a Babadook save this movie because it's like, even on the poster, it's like, "This is not a ghost story." It's not even a fucking story. Fuck off.

17:22Oti: Blood-soaked tampon of a Babadook. That should've been your quote.

17:27KT: Well, even, like, even your pull quote of saying it was woven, like, the words that you used were too beautiful for this film, and it was so frustrating. To me, this film was so frustrating. There's not a lot of films that piss me off, but the films that piss me off are the ones that don't feel earnest, and they feel up their own ass, and that's what this film— The pretentiousness of

17:49Oti: it.

17:49KT: Yeah. It, it's

17:50Oti: I got a sense of Perfume: A Story of a Murderer, and to me— Do you

17:55KT: mean that French film, Perfume? Yeah.

17:57Oti: I felt like, oh—

17:58KT: Sexy

17:59Oti: maybe that's where we're heading with this.

18:02KT: Well, you would hope there's an orgy to save it at the end. You would hope.

18:05Oti: And I was like, 'cause I know people either hate it or love it.

18:10KT: No, but at least— Um— you understood why they got all horned up. Like, that makes sense. Yeah.

18:15Oti: I expected Michaela a- a- or Sam and Mother Mary to, to, to bring something more Okay, there's nothing more they could have done in this. It's more w- the

18:29KT: writing— It's a writing it's, it's

18:30Oti: a writing thing. Yeah.

18:31KT: Because it, like, like what you're saying now, as well as bringing the threads together from Lupita, whether they were friends, whether they were lovers, I don't think that necessarily matters. I think it speaks back to whether he loves women or not. But for what reason? The s- big, strong emotions had nowhere to go. We needed, even if they didn't do flashback scenes, were they such great friends? Did she betray her? I think they were so focused on trying to confuse us whether it was a ghost story, whether one wronged the other, whether, you know, one was the cause of the other's demise, uh, instead of just getting to the rudimentary fundamentals of what was their bond.

19:14Oti: You know what could have. It, it would have just been them two in that room talking for the la- for the next one and a half hours and would have been a more compelling story would have been understanding and th- and them taking us through what happened in the friendship and w- what, what happened there. Because when they were talking about that before we went into the Babadook nonsense of it all, I was so locked in. Nah. It was the first 30 minutes. No. I was, I was at least open to see where this was heading, and I was like, "Okay, Michaela's performance is drawing me in. I can start to see hopefully where this is, the embers, where the embers would be." Mother Mary, yeah, I can see it, or something there. W- either she— Nah, in a

20:01KT: world of Lady Gaga— Is she— Lady Gaga should've done this is she

20:04Oti: dead? Is she. Is this all an imagination of, of Sam? And it doesn't even matter.

20:09KT: Can you imagine?

20:10Oti: All those thoughts were going through my mind. I was like, "Okay, okay." And then it just transpired into nothingness. Give us nothing. Despite everyone else's fucking awesome performances, 'cause you can see it, you can feel it.

20:22KT: What is it giving?

20:23Oti: But it's all, yeah.

20:25KT: It's not, is it? Oh, my word. But I, I think that's part of. And also, say what you will about Empire, but Empire had bangers. Drip— Per

20:36Oti: season

20:36KT: drop, drip, drip. Yeah. But you know what I mean. You can't even fucking write two, three good songs? And then I saw FKA Twigs. Sorry, I, I, I'm not very familiar with their music. I just— Yeah, she's there loved it by default. Mm-hmm. and I think Antonoff was also in the. So it's like your— It had

20:51Oti: big names attached to it like, you've got

20:52KT: all these, like, you've got the best expansion pack of a Lego set to build with, and you squandered it because you don't fucking know what to do with the story. Or, you know, like Friends and Lovers, we've talked about, you know, Spike Lee joints as well as Martin Scorsese. The writer-directors are better than directors, and d- like, writer-directors do their best work when they write and direct the film, and we've talked about that many time, Friends and Lovers, you know. Mm-hmm. Uh, um, Bamboozled, Ergo, Inside Man. Like, there's a difference to the filming.

21:29Oti: Yeah.

21:31KT: No, I, I,

21:32Oti: I, I, I'm 100% with you. I just, yeah.

21:36KT: Can someone else worry about the story? But the music wasn't even good. Like, and Anne Hathaway, like, I'd never watched Les Miserables, but I'm sure she was. Like, I'm sure she can sing, but, like, bro, in a world of Lady Gaga— I don't even think the

21:48Oti: singing was part of—

21:50KT: I know it didn't matter, but she's an actual, like I'm not saying I needed to see Denzel and, uh, Tom Hanks fly a plane— but that's not the

21:59Oti: point. Like, even,

22:01KT: you know, even if you have people that are chefs, you at least get a couple of scenes of them doing the quick chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop, chop. The, the music wasn't great. If you're only gonna have one or two songs that you keep fucking replaying while the blood-soaked tampon Babadook floats around— Fucking give us something. It was giving nothing. unfortunately, I, like, I don't think I've seen Hunter Schafer in anything else, so it was fun to see her, there. But I just didn't. I was like, "Bro, you don't even care." Like, even if everything was great, but you don't even care about the way the music was. She wasn't really dancing. Like, good for her, like, in the costumes, but the costumes were boring. Like, they, they weren't very, they weren't very interesting. But aside of all that, I'm only saying that because the story wasn't interesting. If the story was great, I watch scrappy shit and I love it, so it's not even about that. But you know A24 doesn't have the same rambunctious production that it would have even past five years ago. Mm. Right? And the level of budget for A24 Films and the resources that were available to make this in excess, that's what pisses me off.

23:15Oti: Yeah. Yeah.

23:17KT: And it, you know, like we talked about before, never watched Marriage Story, but you know, like Malcolm & Marie, there's, like, a genre of shouting couples that just yell at each other, and you're wondering why the fuck they're together in the first place. This is just an offering of friendship. Mm. Of, like, how are you guys friends to start off with? And who cares? Why do I care whether you're friends or not? Right? It was like if One Night in Miami wasn't as great as it was. Like, it'Cause it did feel very staged, like, like a play, because it, we weren't really taken out into, I guess, like, like set pieces. It was, like, you know, real world sort of set pieces. We're kind of just fixed in that location. And I, I wou— I wouldn't deny the, the preparation and the earnestness in these performances, but they shouldn't need to be worried about the steering of the bus.

24:17Oti: Yeah.

24:17KT: You know? They, they've got their other roles that they've got. Like, I, I don't think it's a fault on them. It's not a blemish on them. Well, m— Maybe we should've watched The Christophers instead. Was it with Ian McKellen? I don't know who the other person is. I just know Michaela Coel's in there. Like, it just pissed me off.

24:36Oti: Fair. It, it did the same. Well, they, they did punch above what they were given, for sure. No,

24:43KT: don't do that. Don't act like they're the little guy. I'm pretty sure if we looked here, the budget for this— No, really.

24:48Oti: No, I'm saying the a— Horrors

24:50KT: do better with a smaller budget

24:52Oti: the actors did way above what they were given.

24:56KT: Yeah. Like, they're, they're offering more than what was there. Absolutely. Yeah. Fine. Fair. Like, it's, it's not as frustrating, it's not as frustrating as, say for example, One Battle After Another, because that had some racial undertones Or overtones to it, but it was still wanky and up its own ass, and I did not appreciate it. Mm. I don't think I will continue to, read synopsises and watch trailers. I guess the next... $20 million, fuck yeah. There you go. You were googling it as we were talking. $20 million for this piece of shit garbage. That's that, is it Balenciaga, that yellow garbage bag that cost thousands of dollars? Fuck off. Mm. People are mad at the Met Gala, be mad at this fucking shit. Bro, maybe even Melania was more interesting than this. Who knows? Hey, yay.

25:52Oti: Don't go crazy, now.

25:55KT: I said it. All right. Say it again. All right, um, and then we're gonna finish off with a film I went to go and see, friends and lovers. This is called Finding Emily. You also saw trailers when we were watching other things. "A sweet blend of an exasperated girl and gentle-natured guy trying to find love and meaning in a digitally cynical world. The writing helped to challenge the stubbornness and was an endearing experience."

26:23Oti: Mm, okay. Sounded nice.

26:26KT: So the premise of this film is very cute. It also felt very scrappy in a good way, British sort of rom-com, light-hearted sort of film. it centers around Owen, uh, who is very sweet, very lovely, and he has a chance encounter with someone named Emily in a bar. And all he knew was the uni that she went to, and it's all in the trailer. But he tries to find her, and then he ends up sending an email to all the Emilys, so 300 Emilys on campus. And it was fun. It, it was a lot of fun. I think the biggest thing that I appreciated about Owen or about the way that this, uh, was written. And there you go, Director Alicia MacDonald, Writer Rachel Hirons. And you see what I said earlier about whether it's women or people that love women that write and direct films, because you absolutely felt this in this film. Owen was very sweet, and he was very lovely, and the thing that I loved the most about this film was they didn't feel. In, in a world of manosphere, they didn't feel the need to explain why Owen was a romantic because even at moments they were like, "Why are you trying to find her? How do you even know if she's going to be, like, that was a fleeting moment. How do you know that this is gonna be love?" And he's like, "Who cares if it isn't love? Why— Like, why can't I find her? Why not? Why not try and take a chance? And I really love that because aside from his character being that, I love that the world didn't need. Like, the world building didn't need to explain to us why we have a young man that has to ex- explain that he's not overly feminine because he has feelings. You know what I mean?

28:16Oti: Yeah.

28:17KT: In this manosphere of, "Ugh, I need to be a man and not call her for three days," or whatever. Like, they just let him be soppy in the best way and, and sweet and, yeah, like, he was a bit ridiculous to try and find this, this gal after a chance even- uh, e- en- encounter. But honestly, and you know Friends and Lovers, Oti and I have been together before the dating apps, so we kind of And you know, a- as far as we can find our burner accounts, we're not really on social media in an influencer sort of way, no shade. But it's, I think that's what's kind of missing in friendships and dating. There's a lot of cynicism. Like, sometimes there should be some whimsy and romance and, and, and, and some wonder into relationships, don't you think?

29:05Oti: Yeah, for sure.

29:06KT: Would you find me, Oti? Yeah.

29:09Oti: If I go to any uni, type your name, I'm pretty sure I'll get one result, so.

29:14KT: Okay. Joke's on

29:15Oti: you, I

29:16KT: didn't go to uni. So there you go.

29:18Oti: Um,

29:19KT: I just thought, I just really appreciated that. the main, uh, female lead was very annoying. Um, shout outs to Tim. Saw Tim in two week- like, two times in one week, which was very lovely. and his husband Josh. And we were talking about, "I hope she's not gonna be annoying," and I was like, "No, she looks like the type to point out she's a feminist and as a woman," and she did all that. She, she , she struck everything I said on my bingo card, and she was being really frustrating. which is real, is relatable, like we said with The Travel Companion, so I don't think it's a knock on the film. And she did have a friend that pulled her up because as much as, you know, I'm a certified man hater, and as, as much as that is, Owen in particular wasn't that. And you know, Emily had a friend that was like, "You can't. Like, you can't do this to this guy." Like, I think at some point he had been invited to go onto a podcast as well, and they were gonna rip that poor guy to shreds. So she's like, "No, you can't, you can't let this guy go through all of that." So I just really appreciated it. I feel like in a, what's your lady's name? In a Greta Gerwig, Emerald Fennell lens, the very, very white woman, we're the ones that struggle the most, white women. It, this film could have become a talking piece of how hard it is— And not give any sort of dimension to Owen's character, so I really appreciated it. Mm. Um, but who knows, may- they might be friends with Greta and, and, and Emerald. But anyway, I really enjoyed, this film. It was nice. It was sweet. and I think it was as rom-com-y in the 2020s as you can get, you know, in this digital sort of age. But yeah, it was really nice.

31:08Oti: I'm

31:08KT: glad you enjoyed it. Yeah. Mm. Ooh-hoo-hoo. Thank you, friends and lovers, for joining us another week in the For Your Reference podcast. Um, anything you're watching? I know something we're watching that I'm very excited about, but, um, give us some more recs for our friends and lovers.

31:25Oti: Ooh, watching Nemesis.

31:27KT: Whoo, Courtney A. Kemp, the queen in our house. We back, baby.

31:32Oti: Missed her writing so much.

31:35KT: And, like, the network of characters that get built, and we're so excited to see where each pa- like, branch of the tree.

31:41Oti: Mm.

31:42KT: Oh, I'm so excited. like, yeah, it's, it's been so much fun to watch. Uh, and also Widow's Bay.

31:50Oti: Oh, Matthew Rhys.

31:53KT: Matthew Rhys, Matthew Rhys.

31:54Oti: One of the, one of those shows I actively look forward to week on week.

31:59KT: I don't have a lot of time, but I've got all the time for Matthew Rhys. You tell me his sad little face is in something, I'm gonna watch it. Yeah.

32:08Oti: Man, I, I didn't even expect the show to be that funny. Tonally, I think that's what your Dan, like,

32:13KT: the new Dan Levy show, I think that's the tone that they were trying to get.

32:17Oti: Mm.

32:17KT: And this is, like, so much fun.

32:19Oti: Yeah, so much

32:19KT: fun. just gonna cut it. Ooh-hoo-hoo. Thank you, friends and lovers. if you would like to find us on Twitter and Instagram, we're @foryourrefpod.

32:25Oti: Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

32:27KT: We're also on Sydney Film Festival On The Way podcast, if you'd love to leave a rating and review. And we'll see you guys next week.

32:34Oti: See ya.

32:35KT: Bye.