Jackie Brown – Top Grier

Full transcript of Jackie Brown – Top Grier.

0:00KT: Order up. It's another week in the For Your Reference household, and it is another delicious, maybe most delectable course of our Reference Degustation 2022, a footlong celebration of Quippy Tarantino debauchery. Mhmm. Woo hoo hoo. If you've already been joining us, the first course was Reservoir Dogs, which a lot of Claudette. It's that cool sort of hipster place that might not even exist on TripAdvisor. And then we also did the all consuming diner, John Travolta dance in Pulp Fiction. And we are going to get into, again, the most delectable

0:41KT: so far till the end of time. I am so sorry, friends and lovers, to inform you that Pam Grier is the only person to ever wear a suit in history. Thank you very much. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and brown haired ponytail Samuel Jackson lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast with your host, KT.

0:41Oti: And Oti.

0:41KT: Succumb to the charms of Pam Grier, compelling you to simp respectfully. Join us with proof of Tarantino range with Jackie Brown this week.

1:43KT: Slap me on my ass and let's call it a day Oti. Wow, wow, wow. Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. I'll be dreaming of Pam Grier. I'll be dreaming of Pam Grier. I'll be dreaming of Pam motherfucking Grier. Wow. Let's get into general stats and information. Obviously, and directed by Quentin Jerome Tarantino. Interestingly, a novel adaptation, Rum Punch by Elmore Leonard. Okay. So we've done Reservoir Dogs 1992. We've done Pulp Fiction 1994. This was released in December 1997, up the budget of $12,000,000.

2:20Oti: Nice.

2:21KT: However, very disappointingly, and I'm going to go out in these streets and start punching random people, worldwide gross of $39,600,000.

2:31Oti: That pissed right off. Yeah. Compared to the 200 mil of Pulp Fiction. Can I can I can I this is not even going to be

2:31KT: Are we gonna are we gonna get real in this podcast?

2:31Oti: It's not even going to be a hot take or anything like that.

2:31KT: It's gonna be a hot take.

2:31Oti: Not even. To me, this so far is the best Tarantino movie we've watched.

2:55KT: If we used our soundboard, that's what we would insert. Facts. Interesting. Okay. Well, before we even get into first impressions and everything, we've kind of informally started ranking these as we watch and review them on the podcast. We were saying the Pulp Fiction at the top, Reservoir Dogs. So where so you're saying Jackie Brown is at the top astronomically? Yeah. It's holding all the babies right now. With the black tax or just in general?

3:22Oti: No. Like, the extent of which I enjoy this movie. Yes. I was drawn in so much. I'm not sure how much it had to do with Pam bloody Grier.

3:22KT: It had all to do, how dare you?

3:22Oti: You know, she it was, well, I think the '70 a lot of seventies movies. Uh-huh. Heaps, heaps of movies. And

3:44Oti: I used to air a lot of these sort of movies late at night and we'd sit and watch a lot of Pam Grier growing up. Uh-huh. My word, you know, sometimes you just forget how much you're missing someone on screen

3:58Oti: And then bloody hell, she can fucking act.

3:58KT: Yeah. But I also am not gonna ignore the fact that five minutes in, you mentioned that she's one of the first ladies you saw naked.

4:09Oti: I love that too.

4:12KT: Tell me about your crumpled magazine covers, Oti. Say you had a starch bedsheet without saying you had a starch bedsheet. Okay. So you so you're saying it's astronomically at the top, then Pulp Fiction, then Reservoir Dogs so far?

4:12Oti: Currently, yeah.

4:12KT: Okay. Well, I guess we might as well roll into first impressions as I mentioned my ranking. I was introduced to Pam Grier in this film. I've mentioned her name a lot. Like, I've like, I've heard her name mentioned a lot in passing as as as a proponents of pop culture,

4:51KT: but I I never really knew anything. I knew that there was a film called Jackie Brown and she was in it, but I didn't really know much else aside from that. But this was a wholly immersive experience. And I think sorry, Oti. I think I've experienced love for the first time because she is so fucking magnetic. I was simping. So I couldn't even make fun of Max Cherry because I was Max KT Cherry.

5:15Oti: She was popping my Max KT Cherry. Max Cherry was that was smitten me.

5:22KT: Like, you know, it might be one-sided, but you know it is a whole love story when you're playing, like, music in the car and you're singing along.

5:32Oti: Making as if he does that all the time. Nah, mate. We can't help but simp. No sooner had he seen the silhouette of of of Pam Grier, he was like, no, mate, I've gotta play these tunes. Yeah. He didn't even get, like, full in broad daylight. Just the silhouette was enough.

5:50KT: Like, fuck a dementor. Let's get a silhouette of Pam Grier.

5:54Oti: Change people's minds, mate.

5:59KT: Like, if you put Pam Grier in anything, that's your ex machina. You can explain any plot line just by having a presence in there. And this is absolutely going to become a Pam Grier podcast. How dare you? How did you not see this coming? Oh, wow. I just like so generally, I am so glad with the introduction in my recent life of Pam Grier to have in my heart chambers in my sploosh places.

6:25KT: But I got a bit confused because, again, we are on this Tarantino tip. So I was a bit confused because this is the most untarantino film. But by the end of it, at the start, I wasn't I wasn't necessarily grappling onto it. It was reminding me of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood where it was a slow sort of burn. Once we started to focus more on Jackie Brown, hence the actual title of the film, as much as I love Samuel Jackson and his little quibbles, his little quibbles.

6:52KT: Once we focused on Jackie Brown, like, I was into this film and I absolutely loved it. Like, I think part of the jarringness was the fact that I knew it was Tarantino. If I didn't know it was him and I was just watching a film as watching a film, I would have like felt a lot differently or maybe I would have latched on a bit quickly. But by the end of this film, I was wholly in love. And again, like you, I don't know how much of that has contributed towards Pam Grier.

7:17KT: Maybe it's just the effect that she has on us. But absolutely love love love love love. Because it is fairly new and we do know that Pulp Fiction was a part of my life for quite a while, I don't know if I would say it topples Pulp Fiction right now. I'm going to let it simmer with me, but it's it's tying with Pulp Fiction for me.

7:17Oti: I was hooked the minute I saw that we're going to get a story and we're going to get characters that we're going to love,

7:47Oti: hate, have some sort of emotion to to

7:47KT: And I guess just to clarify, you haven't watched film. This was the first time watching you as well.

7:47Oti: This was the first time I watched

7:47KT: Okay. Okay.

7:47Oti: And it was edge of the seat stuff for me Uh-huh. Just because it was completely new. So I was paying that much more attention and whole for the whole runtime Mhmm. Those not what Minita thought, hey, this is a fucking Tarantino movie. Why should I

8:14Oti: should be offended somehow, somewhere by now. I should feel a way. There should be some QT-isms in there. Yeah. But

8:21Oti: I just enjoyed it. I really did. It was fucking great. Like, was fucking great.

8:21KT: And we don't have this theme, but maybe we should have this theme just for funsies in our film reviews. But if we're talking about white writer directors, this is a great example of where you're writing characters that aren't your race and are still hits. Bad examples are Malcolm and Marie. Sam Levinson. Sam Levinson. And also TV wise, The White Lotus. Like, we talk about writing your own fucking stories. However, unfortunately, and for many more years to come, unfortunately,

8:58KT: people will continue to tell stories without consultants. Well, not everyone can have Samuel Jackson as a consultant, their cultural consultant, right? But Jackie Brown is great. Like, I think if we're talking about the unfortunate genre where people are writing stories that aren't theirs, Jackie Brown is at the top. Yeah.

9:15Oti: I don't think I had that much of a problem with watching Malcolm and Marie from the sort of story perspective. I thought it intrigued me. It's all the behind the scenes stuff that we have to go and read and see the problematic shit that was going on, but to each their own. For this, I think having having Ordell there, you know, is is captivating. He he delivers. Tarantino writes for Samuel L. Jackson really well. Absolutely.

9:46Oti: It just works. Yeah. And then on top of that, to add an outstanding performance from Pam Grier that just elevated

9:46KT: Thank you. We went too long without mentioning Pam Grier again. Thank you, Oti.

9:46Oti: No. Because we we go at the fast at the start of the movie, go up there a bit where it's just Ordell, you know. And to me, Dapper was still good. And then introducing Jackie Brown and man. You know, the the the the instances where we usually watch movies

10:15Oti: with with women lead and we're like, who the fuck wrote this? Yeah. You know? Because Because we've both we both agree that female leads can be annoying. Yeah. They are.

10:15KT: I'm cloaking you in in my womanness.

10:29Oti: But you you get what I'm saying. It's it's completely different with this. I think it's one of the first few times where I didn't have to think about any other sort of weird issue because she's a strong she handles it so well and nonchalantly.

10:44Oti: She's she exudes confidence. People respect her. But she she had smarts about her. Exactly. Like and it's not that she has smarts that now you feel like everyone is is blowing steam up her ass or anything like that. She's just fucking smart and that's it.

10:44KT: Well, it's it's also the fact that she got arrested out of nowhere and instead of kicking up a fuss, she started to think who benefits from this? Who could possibly have done this? And oh,

11:11KT: wow, wow, wow.

11:13Oti: Absolutely, man. And then bringing you a as well, we get Melanie. Yeah. And at first, I was like, I don't really care for Melanie. Yeah. But by the end of the movie, Melanie was one of the favorite. To you? She was amazing.

11:27KT: I She knew how to push buttons quite well and she did it brilliantly. I think it's also like, she'll run it to you straight. Like and I think that's also what Ordell was saying. Like, I can't trust her, but I can trust Melanie to be Melanie. And that's kind of one of those things because sometimes you can't rely on people. Yeah. Imagine if Melon hits dead alive, think, Ordell would have been screwed in many ways. Oh, absolutely. And it it also helped to have Jackie Brown not be

11:54KT: in jail either. So it kind of helped to tie loose ends even though we don't think it was deserved. You know, Louis got a bit trigger happy. We we we're all a bit forgetful sometimes, but he got a bit triggered Yeah. If you'll pardon the pun by it. But just overall, I really I wasn't expecting to love this movie. You know, another day we can talk about run times and I'm just Fast in the glory. I am floating on a Pam Grier cloud right now. So I'm

12:24KT: I'm not even gonna have the usual conversations about run time. But once we kicked up a new gear and we're focusing on Jackie Brown, I was absolutely 100% all the way in.

12:33Oti: Like I said before, to me, it's it's it's standing at the very top and rightly so. Mhmm. I think this is a movie that I can easily go and rewatch again. Yeah. You just wanna dive back in. And I don't feel like he's trying to bust out his QT-isms to show it on display.

12:53Oti: You know, he wears it on his sleeve and rightly so because it bloody works.

12:53KT: Uh-huh.

12:53Oti: But in this, it feels different. You know? The it feels like he perhaps maybe cared about the The black movie comes before him.

12:53KT: Yeah. It's not just for the salaciousness and frivolity. Like, there's a genuine care, and I think that's this is what we've been talking about. I wasn't expecting it, but this is an offering where you can care a bit about the characters, and it's encouraged to care about the characters.

13:20KT: And I don't friends and lovers, we're very welcoming and we're very inclusive. But if you cannot be swept away in Pam Grier excellence, I don't wanna talk to you. Like, that's that's that is a big that is a big level of negativity because, wow, so much brilliance, so much fucking magnetism was brought into this

13:43Oti: I think magnetism is the right word because you just can't take your eyes off her. Yeah. She draws you in and keeps you there intrigued.

13:48KT: Yeah. And wow. Far out, man. Like, you know, again, I couldn't make fun of Max Cherry when he was giving his phone number.

13:54Oti: You are in the same position, mate.

13:58KT: He was giving his phone number. He was giving his beeper number. I would give my social security. I would give my blood type. I would lay down my life for Pam Grier. Okay?

14:10Oti: And this is why the ending was so bloody unbelievable because at the end of it, Max Cherry should be in that car. Yeah. No way he he he he stays back. Maybe that's where the 12,000,000 budget went in because Robert Forster kept running towards the car.

14:25KT: No. That's not the script. He's Jake, 1,000. He's tailgating the car. Is there anything else in first impression? I'm so fucking giddy. Is there anything else in first impressions? I think Louis was also quite a character in this. I kind of like that he wasn't about mess. He wasn't about drama. Yeah. So that's why him and Melanie didn't get along. Of course, they fucked out of obligation and he did feel sorry out of obligation or he felt felt ashamed out of obligation.

15:03KT: But you knew that we're gonna come to a loggerhead. It's like it it was it was inevitable. It was going to happen. Yeah. The fact that he shot her twice and he still wasn't sure whether she died. Oh, to be fair, he warned her. He did. Communicating is very important, and he was very clear. Well, not in the fact that he's gonna fucking shoot you, but still Oh. Respect boundaries. Yeah. But you also appreciate the pushing of buttons. I did. I really did. Because I think no one did it better than her. Yeah. Absolutely.

15:37KT: Oh, okay. Shout outs love and splooshes. If I can muster any more splooshes that aren't in Pam Grier's direction, my splooshes are going to our patrons. Thank you for contributing to common and recurring themes of Tarantino's filmography. I've split them into different sections. We're going to start off with general questions. And if you've listened to previous episodes, it will be interesting to see the evolution or the devolution of our answers thus far. So let's start off with Jamie. What are your views on Quentin Tarantino's

16:09KT: approach to violence? I think this is one of these least violent movies. Or at least it wasn't as stylized.

16:16Oti: Yeah. It wasn't as as

16:18KT: as porny as the others have been. Well, it was porny but in a Pam Grier sort of way.

16:26Oti: I am so sorry. I can't help but simp friends and lovers. Yeah. To that point, I think it was just the sort of regular sort of violence that we see in every day of the movie. Nothing to stand out.

16:37KT: Yeah. No. I think, like, if we're if we're mentioning the examples that I gave in Pulp Fiction, Reservoir Dogs was like a like hitching a wagon onto real life sort of rules and implications. I think Jackie Brown kind of traverses the same sort of world. It's just a bit more considered in regards to the characters, but there are real life implications, real life sort of rules and consequences that are attached to this film. So in saying that the violence is a bit more realistic, it's not necessarily as salacious and stylized.

17:12KT: But I I really like the approach to it. I I think the way that the story was told, the violence made sense. Even Louis like shooting Melanie, like we were both mouth agapes staring at each other. Like, what the fuck just happened? That escalated quickly. Yeah. Absolutely. But then it also made sense because we were informed that Louis wasn't about the bullshit. Even when we had Ordell kill Beaumont, it was very clear.

17:37Oti: Yeah. He stayed quite early in the movie that Ordell is the last person you want, you know, fixed. Yeah. Because everything will be about Ordell. He's someone who cannot do time.

17:37KT: Can we talk about loose fucking ends?

17:51KT: And and also, maybe this is what finally gets me canceled after three years on the podcast. I'm not saying it's to the level of John Singleton, rest in peace with Snowfall, but think about Franklin Saint. He kept keeping people all around even though they were, by all accounts, literal loose ends. I respected that, Ordell. He saw he saw that people were a problem.

18:17KT: Even if there's a percent chance that they were going to flip on him, get rid of him. Yeah. If this is your if this is the life that you've chosen and you wanna be in it for as long as possible Commit me.

18:28Oti: Yeah. Collateral.

18:31KT: And as much as I didn't care for Jamie Saint Patrick, Ghost, Power, 50 Cent apparently single handedly keeping quality of television programming, ghost. He got rid of Voussin's. There's something respectable about that is my point. Even though it obviously comes off very harsh, I respect it. Because if we're in if we're in this, we're all in. Crime is bad, gah. But it's also is systemic prejudice, gah.

19:00Oti: So so, you know, when Ordell runs it straight, I really appreciate it. Me too. Because that's how he's managed to stay out of jail. Yeah. To the point where we have ATF trying to come up with trumped up charges just to see a way they can shake the tree and find Ordell. You know, we can tell that they've clearly been trying to find a way to get him boxed in. Yeah. Absolutely. So it clearly is working. Yeah. You don't need to have a case study for this. Yeah. They're the ones that make it out, bro. Mhmm.

19:31KT: Let's go to the next theme that we have in general questions. This is from Rob, and he wants to know what our thoughts are on the QT verse theory, films within films.

19:42Oti: Yeah. I really don't think there's any sort of in here. No. I think that because, you know, Jackie Brown Pam Grier played sort of it's a similar sort of storyline in the movie she played earlier. Okay. You know, Coffy or Foxy Brown, and the storyline is quite similar, but I don't see any relation to anything relevant to Quentin other piece of work.

20:06KT: But I would I would go so far as to say, if it was to be connected to the non gendered film bro Quentin Tarantino universe, it will besmirch the tent pole of my heart chambers of Jackie Brown. It stands alone. It deserves to be alone and appreciated and loved and lauded alone. Just replay the American Gods sequence with Bilquis and her suckerbussing everyone up. That's feel free to do a fan edit where I get suckerbussed by Pam Grier because wow. Yeah. It deserves to stand on its own. An emotion

20:43KT: and investment in a character over noticing fucking one liners that connect in other fucking films any day for me.

20:43Oti: Agreed. A 100% agree with you. This is the least film bro movie from this guy. So I'm happy with that.

20:43KT: Yeah. It's like it's like you finally got the loud, noisy, annoying, obnoxious kid in church to sit down, eat their snacks, and be quiet. Like, finally. Yeah. And this is what we get. Yes, please. Thank you very much.

20:43Oti: I'm with you, mate.

20:43KT: Let's move on. We have Jamie asking,

21:17KT: is Quentin Tarantino the best contemporary director to match visuals and music? So I think we kind of agreed to a certain extent in Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction. I started creating subcategories and I said that he is the best to do it tonality wise, informing what the world is going to be wise, but he isn't currently the best to do it. Yeah. But if we're talking about Jackie Brown specifically, I don't necessarily think he fits the bill. But again, it's that restraint that we never saw before that allowed for the emotions to pour in.

21:54Oti: It felt more just like, this is a scene, this is a song. Great soundtrack, but it's like, this is a scene, this is a song, this is a scene, this is a song. I think that he used a bit of the quacky sort of love music at the end to sort of alleviate the tension or to make some sort of comedic relief. But with the current situation going down with, you know, we have Ordell with Max heading to to see Jackie Brown. But I do agree with you.

22:23Oti: I don't think it was, in any case, used like that. Yeah. But that's not a bad thing because we got investment in other places. Yeah. His his least wankery film, and I think it's one of my favorite.

22:35KT: Least wankery? But we will continue to wank for many years over Jackie Brown. Yep. So we win. Mhmm. Keep your fucking bummed out watches. We win. Let's move into direction slash stylistic choices. This is from Ben. At what point does Quentin Tarantino's stylized hyper aware of itself dialogue become a hindrance to the film rather than part of its charm slash magic?

23:06Oti: I don't think there's any of that in here because maybe the one thing is, you said this was adapted from a novel. Right? Uh-huh. Maybe that took away from the aspect of it a bit Okay. Where we don't get to see him go into full Wonka mode and be super self aware and, you know, to the point where it's distracting. Yeah.

23:06KT: But to a degree then with that statement, I I sort of disagree because I think his dialogues have been quite on point with some of, you know, with either

23:32KT: Reservoir Dogs or Pulp Fiction. It's more that other aspects of of him that gets in the way. Yeah. Like, literally him. Like, he can get in the way. Just like Oti mentioned with M. Night Shyamalan in Old. Yep. Yeah. I I Ben, as much as we love to fight, I do take qualm with the, I guess, the the the proposing in this question because I don't even think the dialogue is the problem. Sometimes it can get so unwieldy, sometimes it can get so wiry that you lose center, you lose home

24:07KT: in Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction. But I think we really was Pam Grier was the epicenter of this film, and I think it was it was it was done in a way where everything was considered with the epicenter of Pam Grier. So I don't necessarily think the dialogue was a hindrance. But I guess while we're here, do you think anything was a hindrance in this film?

24:07Oti: I don't think anything was, to be honest. Right? I feel like it just played so well with each other, complemented each other quite well.

24:37Oti: Now I think there were points where in Pulp Fiction, you mentioned that there were hindrances that, you know, either we look bust just because for the sort of full package you get at the end of it. Uh-huh. But with this, I cannot recall any bit where I was taken aback.

24:53KT: Yeah. I don't think so either. I think everything was great. I I'm not necessarily feeling myself giving this a perfect score. However, in right now, I am in want of nothing. Well, I I would love more Pam Grier, but I am in want of nothing right now. Moving along to the next theme, again, not necessarily in this instance, but from Julio, we have rewriting history.

25:14Oti: No. I I don't think rewriting history. I think just sort of highlighting maybe in terms of the sort of blaxploitation stuff we used to get. Mhmm. Other than but that's not rewriting. It's just more probably paying homage. Yeah. Absolutely.

25:34KT: The next theme that we have is California slash Hollywood slash film slash genre from Rob. Again, even though there are many cast of black people, I'm not attributing this to Baby Boy or don't go sipping come on, Oti. Help me with your taxi.

25:34Oti: Juice in the Hood.

25:34KT: Yes. Menace II Society. Like, I'm not necessarily placing it on the shelves of beautiful, brilliant black cinema based in LA. However, there were some like, we were moving across California. There was a lot of mention of Compton,

26:13KT: Ordell. Again, you kind of have to separate. And as the film went on, it was easier to separate the fact that a white man is sitting there writing the dialogue for Samuel Jackson. But, again, Ordell has this little bit where he's talking about him finding Sharonda at a bus stop two days out of Georgia, dropping her in Compton and telling her it's Hollywood. Like, there's there's there's so much richness in regards to California and LA

26:40KT: in general, and there is a little bit more of a focus in Compton as opposed to other films.

26:50Oti: Think it also sort of paints the picture of the situation there, especially the black community is going through. Uh-huh. Because you also have this song that they use quite frequently across the 110th Street. Yep. You know, it describes sort of the issues that are going on and it's overlaid. And even at the end of it where we get Jackie Brown driving off and singing along.

27:07Oti: I almost

27:08Oti: I almost shed a tear at that moment. Yeah. But I was staring at beauty, so I didn't cry. Yeah. So Ordell has a flavor of saying it to the point where you could be you could not even you'd you'd not want to think more about it. Mhmm. But once you stop trying to pee peel that veneer off, then it could tell the issues and across the 110th Streets blatantly says everything that you want.

27:25KT: And and, you know, we we cover a lot and we talk a lot about the plight of black people in America and how it's so unfucking fair, but at least in this film,

27:41KT: at least Jackie Brown can try and get out of this quicksand. Right? Mhmm. And the lyrics speak a lot to it. And can I also point out, Oti, that this is the most in-depth sort of analysis and discussion that we've had about a Tarantino film? And that's cool on us. But there's so much considered detail beyond what's cool and funny and quippy to say. Right? These characters have a backstory and they come from a community as well. They're not just in isolation saying bad motherfucker on their wallet. Yeah.

28:15Oti: And that's why I have to give credit to him for for doing something like outside his wheelhouse in Jackie Brown because I this is the last thing I expected from him. And the fact that I hadn't even watched it, I've heard of Jackie Brown before, but never really bothered.

28:15KT: You felt like you had the whole tag

28:15Oti: Yeah. Because team I'd already I already knew what Tarantino was about.

28:15KT: You're at the buffet. You didn't need to get another plate.

28:15Oti: Yeah. Yeah.

28:15KT: Oh, absolutely,

28:42KT: Rob. I would say it satisfied this particular theme. Moving on, we have from Julio, pop culture references.

28:47Oti: I think maybe not directly. We did already mention movies like Coffy where we had Pam Grier play a lead in that as well. Uh-huh. Or even Foxy Brown. So it's sort of tying to that. Mhmm. I think that's one of the third degree sort of references we can have for this.

28:47KT: But you know what's so interesting?

29:06KT: I I made a snarky perhaps a snarky Sorkin reference in our Pulp Fiction episode where I said, I don't go for a salad at McDonald's. I know what I'm getting in for with Tarantino. However, the untarantinoisms is kind of what draws me to this film. And also, how damn me. Our name is For Your Reference podcast, but I kind of like that it lived in isolation of pop culture. Like, the poppy pop of it all, the quirkisms of it all, the snarky snarks, the salaciousness,

29:40KT: as much as I love Tim Roth, like, you know, all of those high stakes sort of hijinks, I guess you could say, in regards to Tarantino. We didn't have it in this film. That's kind of the flavoring, which I guess also stayed you away from Jackie Brown, which wasn't present in this film, which kind of was able excavate deeper into my heart chamber. And I never knew it was possible. Character development, but I would also say Oti is giving us J.K. Simmons Whiplash

30:12KT: in regards to his Tarantino feelings as well. Who knew this would be no. But really, it's such a feelings journey that both of us have felt about Tarantino throughout all of this filmography. I can't say that the the passionate bastion that I have for the untarantinoisms is going to continue because we're going straight into Kill Bill. Super slick, super stylized,

30:38KT: not that it's in a bad way, but now that I know that, like, Tarantino is capable of this. Yeah. But also, this is fucking shame on you guys, friends and lovers, because the box office was terrible. And I guess also perhaps people aren't watching Jackie Brown. So it's like, do you enjoy black people or do you enjoy the salaciousness and making fun of them and not seeing them as actual people? What's a quandary? What's a Delroy Lindo quarrel? True. You mentioned earlier blaxploitations with my barely percent periphery.

31:13KT: I do understand that Pam Grier is pivotal in the blaxploitation sort of genre. Did you wanna speak a little bit about Coffy and Foxy Brown? No. You could literally draw parallels.

31:22Oti: And to me, I think when watching these quite young as well, they sort of form this mindset, you know, and it's it's one of those things that it's like a rite of passage that you have to well, at least in my household. And it's

31:39Oti: one of those things that even watching this, I think, after I'd finished watching it is when I started like, oh, Coffy. I remember sort of, you know, I can I can see I can see what he was trying to do here? And and that's wonderful. And that's the wonderful thing about this movie because I think in the fact the fact that I've lived this artful this long and

31:39KT: Like kung fu style? Yeah. Go and listen to the Pulp Fiction episode if you haven't already.

31:39Oti: And Jackie Brown never screamed,

32:08Oti: know, to to, hey, watch me. Watch me. Because he get all of his other movies get all the noise. Yeah. Absolutely. I think this just sits it feels a bit a tad underrated.

32:08KT: But doesn't that speak more to the audience though?

32:08Oti: Yeah. Film bro dudes.

32:22KT: No. But if if Tarantino is showing that he's capable of it and commercially, it's not as successful

32:22Oti: We should demand more from society.

32:22KT: Exactly. And I guess that but that also goes back to the deconstructionist sort of theory that we talked about in The Matrix. Where does the dollars lie? Where does the commercialism lie? Does it lie in Jackie Brown, the film? Does it lie in Tarantino? Or does it lie on the motherfuckers that slept on it?

32:22Oti: True. It's a logical, mate.

32:22KT: Absolutely. Let's move on to casting slash characters.

32:56KT: Oti kind of slapped me down in Pulp Fiction, not agreeing with my theme of Tarantino trying to cast the guys that look like him, but are definitely more attractive.

33:07Oti: Well, this definitely didn't happen. No. Maybe maybe, you know, to Ben's point of distracting mannerisms. Uh-huh. The Ordell hair. Bloody hell.

33:21KT: I feel like I feel like Samuel Jackson's wig had a whole trailer. I don't know. Friends and lovers, please sound off. I don't know what was more unsettling. The ponytail, the brown hair, or when he took it off and he looked like the second removed cousin of Sauron and Compton. I think in ponytail it was possible. Like, you just don't look at it and it's fine.

33:45Oti: Why is he letting free flow? You can't ignore it. Nah. Come on, man. I could not look away. That shit was distracting us.

33:55KT: Does old Elverbi look like a bitch? Yes, he does. Wow. Oh, man. Man. Oh, man. Oh, man. Going into some more low brow. This is from Julio and Brent. Feet.

34:13Oti: We did get us having a feet. Hang on. Brent, because he said it, I wanna say it every time we cover it. Brent differentiated that we're talking about women's feet. Mhmm. We did get our serving in Melanie quite early as well. It was a full shot, you know, with toe rings and all. Yeah. Like, oh, okay. Someone's getting his his kink full.

34:32KT: Yeah. Absolutely. And I I restrained myself. I I ball gagged myself if you're nasty in Pulp Fiction. But I'm going to ask it now because he kept mentioning ankles, but I think he's more of a toe guy. Yeah. He's a toe guy. Like like sucking the rings off. They call him Sonic Tarantino. What are you talking about? Wow. Don't ask him where he puts his knuckles.

35:01Oti: Woah.

35:02KT: Okay. That's your that's your rude fucking warning for not noticing the explicit tagging motherfuckers.

35:08Oti: Yeah. We did. It was customarily there, but that did not take away from anything. Just it as it is and move on.

35:22KT: But then it kind of feels more perverted because it only focuses on one actress's feet. You know what I mean? Like, because if it's free game and we're seeing everyone's feet, I'm kind of imagining long brown hair on Samuel Jackson's feet Yeah. As well down. I'm not I'm not sure anyone wants to see that. But, yeah, it it it felt a bit more perverted. It kind of going back to Power, how in the first season in particular, everyone had to sign that if they were asked to be nude, they had to be nude. It makes it feel less perverted than just having one set of feet that you continuously

35:57KT: zoom in on. Yeah. And when Melanie said to Louis, wanna fuck, I I thought it was gonna be fucking in between the toes.

36:08Oti: I think when you saw that, I was like, bloody hell. What the fuck is this? What's wrong with Ordell? But it's like But the place isn't his. No. But it's like, aren't we dealing with enough?

36:16KT: You have to bring up underage shit? Like, do you can we just breathe? Can we just live? Is that okay? Thank you, Oti

36:16Oti: You're welcome.

36:16KT: For Oti-ing the situation. Really appreciate it, bro. Let's move on to Rob. We've got the reluctant hero. Would you, first of all, agree that there is a reluctant hero? And who do you think it is in this film?

36:16Oti: Has to be on Max Cherry.

36:16KT: Yeah. Actually, yeah. Actually, yeah. He is. And it wasn't that much of a surprise because

36:48Oti: Guy was smitten to hell. Yeah.

36:51KT: Yeah. Like, it obviously helped that we fell in love with Jackie Brown, but it was very clear that Max Cherry, he would give up his first born. The reluctance was a pretense. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. He was fully on board. Yeah. Like, how many times do you go to the food court, bro?

37:09Oti: Just passing there pretending.

37:13KT: Trying to act like he didn't see her. Oh, bloody hell. Like he doesn't have a tracker for pheromones? Come on now.

37:20Oti: Well, to be fair, you'd be there. Right?

37:24KT: I was behind him following Pam Grier all the way me. I would be. I would be like your year seven for some reason in science or for some reason in your PE class where they try to teach you the miracle of birth. That's me. I'll be there. Wow. I've got my kinks, but they're not feet. So I'm not gonna be casted in the Tarantino film anytime soon. We'll see. But, yeah, just just to go back to Rob's theme, Max Cherry was absolutely the reluctant hero.

37:54KT: Reluctant is is is a very liberal word because he was more than happy to, like, simp at her altar. Yep. But in any case, he did become the hero of the film. If not for his involvement, this wouldn't have worked. Yeah. I was just glad that he saw something in in Jackie Brown that made him help. Yeah. Absolutely. I wonder what that was, but whatever it was that he saw that he finally made the decision to help, I'm glad. I don't think he would ever be able to handle seeing her undressed because he couldn't even handle the silhouette.

38:28KT: He was ready to give up the game just by seeing her walk into shadows. I don't blame you bro, but also you're not fit for this world. That's so true. Let's move on to the next theme and we have Julio casting old favorites and reviving their careers.

38:45Oti: I know we have a lot of Mavericks in this film, but I really only wanna talk about Pam Grier to be honest. It is only Pam Grier. It's such a shame, you know, like, I think it was a what? About ten, twelve, fifteen years that she did do anything before this? Yeah. She can act. Yeah. But it was just amazing to see her in this and kudos to him. I love how we're being objective because I think we love her through everything.

39:09KT: And we're like, yeah, she can act, but it doesn't fucking matter because we fucking love her either way. Yeah. We do. I'm I'm looking at her IMDb and apparently she was in Smallville as Amanda Waller.

39:18Oti: Oh, wow. I can't remember that. But I do remember her in The L Word.

39:18KT: Of course, you do. Of course.

39:25KT: Again, tell us you have starched sheets without telling us you have starched sheets.

39:31Oti: I'm a feminist.

39:35KT: Your mother's like, Oti, have you been watching have you been watching Pam Grier again? She encouraged that shit. Oh, an a. Again, friends and lovers, Oti will have a thriving but a very short lived career based on his screenplays and directing.

39:58Oti: The world isn't ready.

40:02KT: Oh, just you creating NFTs and, like, VR's of people that refuse to be in your films. Oh, wow. Wow. Wow. Julio, if you are a man of quality, you won't care that we only talked about Pam Grier. And it's also shame on you if you expected us to talk about anyone else. Mhmm. Okay. Interestingly, a sentence I would never think I would say on this podcast where the n word isn't relevant when talking about Tarantino. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Well, let's get into the themes that were brought by our patrons. Brent says,

40:41KT: every time I show one of his movies to someone that hasn't seen them, I always wait for the moment that he or someone else drops the n word to see how they react. Mhmm. Paul says, are Quentin Tarantino's race related quips justified in this film, and Julio mentions racial slurs. So how do you feel generally? Because obviously, the n word was used. Yeah. It was used by one person in Ordell.

41:06KT: And if you think

41:06Oti: He used it the most.

41:06KT: I don't think he was the only one.

41:06Oti: You reckon?

41:06KT: There were many moments for Nicolette to say it as well, like Michael Keaton's character. Because if you talk about the nonchalance that the n word's been used in the last two films, there were many examples that he could have used and he didn't.

41:06Oti: That shows you that it flew off my head then. Because to me, it was only Ordell and that was his language because if you think that Samuel L. Jackson or Ordell in this instance does not use the word, you'd be folly to think so. Yeah. So proper usage, mate.

41:40KT: So I guess I guess we come back to like our foundational sort of qualms in the first two films where it was used and it was used so frivolously and it was used so carelessly by white characters, mostly Quentin Tarantino. So is what we're saying if you were to offer more layered sort of characters that would naturally say it? Because Ordell was a bit of a Uncle Ruckus. He was, but Like he was kind of there before Django Unchained Samuel Jackson.

42:11Oti: Oh, was prepping him. But but that's different because Well, this is the tie into the universe.

42:18KT: Ordell, mate. You're proud of that if you're of that being your contribution to the Quintanterra Tarantino universe, then that's on you, bro.

42:18Oti: I just bring quality, mate.

42:18KT: Yeah. And we all understand there are quality of varying degrees. Let's go to Paul's question specifically. Quentin Tarantino's race related quips justified in this film? Well, I guess my first question on top of Paul's question is, were there any race related quips? And then also, were they justified?

42:42Oti: I don't think so. But then again, we get this aspect of how Jackie Brown is treated by the detectives and, you know, if this is a white person, is it different? And then the way though she was taken to court and all that, like, you could try and read a few things in there that was sort of have some racist undertones,

43:11Oti: but nothing that screams at you. Uh-huh. Yeah. Interesting. Right? And that was more geared towards society rather than usage of either dialogue or, you know?

43:11KT: I wanna say a thing, so I'm gonna say a thing. Yeah. There was more considered storytelling

43:24KT: Mhmm. In this film. And I think that also translated to racism slash n word section. So I guess we've been foiled by Tarantino because we don't necessarily have anything to contribute in this. I don't I

43:39KT: it's interesting because even though there was no reasons to bring race related quips, he still found a way in the other two films. He did. So it's interesting. It's and I guess we we did say it in jest, I think, the Reservoir Dogs recording that we would love to see in Tarantino film where you expect a white person to say it and they don't say it and see the film bros get mad. And I guess that's kind of here. That's the closest mad and they go watch the movie. Yeah. It's like, oh, this becomes a black movie now. Yeah. Tarantino's crossed beside me. Don't watch him anymore. He's leaning hard on his Jerome.

44:13Oti: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

44:17KT: Okay. So let's finish off with still in the realms of racism slash the n word, but a little bit more levity from Ben. Why does Quentin Tarantino insist on including himself in brackets usually as a racist when he can't act.

44:35Oti: Oh, I'm glad I don't think I saw him in this at all. I don't think I saw him either. Didn't see passing. But even if he did, it didn't it didn't become a Yeah. It didn't interfere with with the movie whatsoever. Yeah. And that's how it should be. Come on now. Yeah. Absolutely.

44:50KT: I I didn't think we were capable of seeing Tarantino not physically insert himself in the wankiness of his own film, but we saw it here. I don't even understand why. And I'm sure, you know, I can go and read IMDb trivia. Again, I'm sure there are some non gendered Filmbro forums that I can read, but I don't fucking care. He wasn't in it. I was having a good time. I kept worrying that I was going to see him because, again, we don't see his elongated

45:18KT: presence until the end of the film. Yeah. But I didn't fucking care because I was having a good time. Me too. A Pam Grier good time. Absolutely, indeed. I like I I genuinely don't know what to do aside from creating a Pam Grier podcast.

45:32Oti: If this podcast if this episode was just us shouting Pam Grier for an hour, most people would have taken it and they would have been happy. They would have inserted it in their toe inserts. Mhmm.

45:32KT: Nice. That's a wonderful place to be Oti.

45:32Oti: Yeah. Like, watch some Pam Grier's stuff, mate. Enjoy it.

45:47KT: You know, in 30 Rock when they had SeinfeldVision because Seinfeld is syndicated and they wanted to find more ways to make money so they just kept inserting Jerry Seinfeld into things. Yeah. I'm going to become tech savvy enough to insert Pam Grier into everything. And I will definitely pay her, of course, because she deserves and loves and we stand forever. But please feel free to contribute to my GoFundMe of inserting Pam Grier everywhere. Mhmm. The title is misleading, but hopefully it becomes clickbait.

46:23KT: Do you have anything else to contribute, Oti, aside from your starch bedsheets?

46:23Oti: I love this movie. Yeah. I'm not even looking forward to Kill Bill now because this is just my everything.

46:23KT: Oh, okay. That's interesting because you mentioned even above me, Lucy Liu is your number one.

46:23Oti: Oh. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see how this goes.

46:43KT: It's the tokenism for you. But yeah. Because I think for I think we both universally agree between the both of us that we love Kill Bill. Without thinking about ratings and analysis and that sort of thing, we love Kill Bill. We do. But that was before Jackie Brown entered the chat. Mhmm. Wow. Wow. Wow. And I guess that's a perfect segue, the segue king as well as your segue edge lord Oti for our For Your Reference segment. Usually, recommend stuff we're watching.

47:17KT: This goes to the courses that we have offered thus far, Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, Jackie Brown, obviously, and we are going to be tackling Kill Bill next. Nice. If you would like to join the Max Cherry, KT pops her Max Cherry on Twitter and Instagram, we're at f y r f pop. Alright. That's an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also on the genesis of Samuel Jackson as Uncle Ruckus in Tarantino films podcast if you like to leave a rating and review. Or we're gonna see a transition from Ordell to Stephen.

47:51Oti: And what the fuck kind of name is that? Mate, if you look at Samuel Jackson and think Stephen.

47:57KT: You've gentrified the shit out of Samuel L. Jackson. Yep. Okay. Let's say it again. We're also on stop fucking gentrifying Samuel L. Jackson podcast if you like to leave a motherfucking rating and review, and we'll see you guys in the next course.

47:57Oti: See you.

47:57KT: Bye.