Cobweb, Shayda, Scarygirl & Night Bloomers

Full transcript of Cobweb, Shayda, Scarygirl & Night Bloomers.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, and this is the very first future announcements for a Ref Max, Oti. We're currently watching Scavengers Reign, and I'm not sure what I feel. I don't know where I feel.

0:15Oti: It's, it's a journey and I'm there for it

0:17KT: Yeah, right. Um, also we will be coming out with a full review of Scavengers Reign as well as the West End stage show of The Prince of Egypt, which is in Australian cinemas from the 19th of October. Let's get on with the show. Howdy ho friends and lovers. Welcome back to another jam packed Reference Max this week. You've got your host, KT.

0:47Oti: and Oti.

0:49KT: And I guess we'll see if we end up covering the Saviour Complex. Am I right, Oti?

0:53Oti: Mm

0:54KT: Yay, yay, yay, yay, yay. Um, we have a full, um, schedule today. Um, most of them, some of them are in cinemas. Some of them are muy caliente, tantalizing, almost on their way to come out. Non spoilers, you know the thang. We like cucking every now and then.

1:14KT: You know who I love cucking over, Oti? It's the perfect segue. We're talking about Song Kang-ho. We're talking about Cobweb. Thank you to the team at Nixco as well as Umbrella Entertainment. Oti, take us away.

1:27Oti: Cobweb crafts a mesmerizing drive into the intricacies of 70s cinema. Director Kim's relentless drive mirrors the film's layered narrative, creating a surreal yet insightful commentary on the artistic process. Worth a watch for its captivating, unique blend of insight and whimsy. I loved this movie and everything about it.

1:46KT: Oh, you're my only layer daddy Oti. I don't know if what Oti and I do is called cobwebbing, but I definitely had a great time. Kim Jee-woon intricately spins a meta-web of the art of filmmaking and ensnares those who can't make art. The inspired descent into madness centres the absurd beauty of what it is to be human. Woo hoo! Woo hoo! Woo hoo! Um, and I also want to say, um, it feels so long ago now, from June when we covered, um, you know, when we did our coverage for the Sydney Film Festival, but this was definitely one that hurt my feelings that we couldn't fit into our watching schedule. So I'm so glad we had the opportunity to watch this film.

2:38Oti: Me too, me too. I think it gave me shades of if I was watching The Housemaid back then.

2:48Oti: I, I didn't think that I'd enjoy it this much. But I was on the edge of my seat throughout from its introduction and everything. Just how it was shot. I loved it. And of course he had to have the whimsy there as well. It was quite goofy in parts and that just made it even more better. It had fun with itself. The characters, you could tell that the cast had fun with the movie as well. And that shines through.

3:14KT: Lean into Oti, the cobwebbing edgelord, am I right? Um, and you're absolutely right, you know. Because the film, um, you know, echoes through that black and white and, you know, there are so many noir sort of moments that literally has to have some sort of influences, um, on The Housemaid and while we haven't done a full review Thank On The Housemaid, we definitely wove it throughout our Parasite review, um, friends and lovers, if you haven't seen that already, but you know, it speaks to the pageantry, even though The Housemaid was in the sixties and this was an homage to, you know, seventies Korean cinema, you can definitely feel, um, uh, you know, that sort of inspiration and those sort of homages as well.

4:00KT: There were moments in this film that, um, you know, I'm not Jhené Aiko, but I did feel triggered.

4:10KT: Um, but I, I guess it's one of those things, like if you're, if you're going to make fun of us, just make sure you slap us on the ass on the way out. Um, and there was definitely some commentary, like I just generally loved the. The love for cinema, and as well as the scrutinous, um, sort of commentary about the business behind film. Um, there was even a quote in the film saying, She knows money, not film. Film is not a business. And that appealed to all, all of my movie loving sensibilities. Um, but then there was also that layer of, um, film criticism. And I guess that, what was that saying of like, those that can't do teach? Sort of moment, um, I, I wrote the quote down criticism is an act of revenge of those who can't make an art. I'd like to think what Oti and I get up to is proper cinema, but who knows?

5:08Oti: Well, here's a point.

5:14KT: But it was, it was so textural, um, in its layers of film. And I, I don't know, maybe this is where it works for me because you're never going to catch me watching Moonlight. Ooh, sorry. I mean, La La Land.

5:27Oti: Yeah.

5:28KT: Or a Babylon, like, I know there are a lot of films that are loved and lauded by Hollywood about Hollywood. Um, but in this particular instance, when we're focusing on Korean cinema, um, and it speaks to the notes and, you know, film being a business or those that can't do teach or, you know, those that it's like an act of revenge to critique a film. Like I really, really appealed to that.

5:50Oti: Yeah, me too. I think this worked way better for me than Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. And I'll sing it to the mountaintops. So,

5:57KT: So if we had covered Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Kill Bill wouldn't have been at the bottom is what you're saying.

6:03Oti: Wow. Was it at the bottom?

6:05KT: it was.

6:05Oti: oh, bloody hell.

6:08KT: It was an interesting time for the For Your Reference, Arthur.

6:11Oti: clearly

6:13KT: Something that I want to pick up on that you said was, you know, there may be people that found it too ridiculous, or maybe it was too far fetched the way that it got so absurd and it really leaned into its ridiculousness. But I think, you know, friends and lovers, if you've listened to our Bullet Train review, we are always ready to go there. If you're willing to go there, we're right there behind you.

6:35Oti: It even better. For me at least. Okay. And I think the goofiness is what made that push director Kim to even, you know, further himself into this depth where he felt like he had to overcome, um, his predecessor.

6:51KT: Yeah, you don't need to convince me. It absolutely worked for me. I think sometimes, or can you at least see how maybe some people would think it's too ridiculous?

7:00Oti: Yeah, those people who don't like fun.

7:05KT: I, I think what I think the best way to say it is animation really has a way of stretching all sense of absurdity, right? Sometimes in live action, even if it isn't fully grounded, people find it hard to be able to tap into that extra sort of dimension. It, it doesn't necessarily, it's, it's not necessarily an obstacle for us. Again, like the ridiculous title cards that you get in Bullet Train, for example. Um, but, but at the end of the day, it worked for you. It worked for me and the rest of us don't make art. So it

7:44KT: I also love the groundedness, um, in Cobweb as well. There was some very real human moments. I even wrote it down. It was played, you know, in a very ridiculous way. Um, but there was a quote saying to feel torment is to be human.

7:59Oti: We, we get to see the struggle, right, between trying to create or trying to fight something that you feel like you have to outdo yourself. And I think we've asked a lot of the directors that we've interviewed, the battle where you feel like you have to sort of outdo, some of them don't even feel that because everything is different from their, from their perspective. Yeah. It's, it's a thing that people would always put on you from, from a society point of view, you know, oh, is it going to be better than your first movie? It happens.

8:33KT: I remember you asking Jordan Peele that question

8:35Oti: Oh, look at you calling something back. Oh, Jordan Peele. What a one.

8:41KT: Well, if I can't cobweb over you, then what's the point, Oti? Um, but even while you're talking about it, um, specifically in regards to Nope, you know, there is that in Cobweb. Um, and I also remember, um, the interview of It Lives Inside with Bishal and he talked about, you know, the film is never done until it's actually in cinema and you can't touch it anymore. So it was really cool to like feel, you know, different sorts of influences and layers, even while we're watching Cobweb, but wow. Immaculate performances all round. And what a great, like, this is such a great self contained film. Like, recent offerings, The Burial, uh, They Cloned Tyrone, Mad Heidi to a particular extent. Um, it's just nice to have a self contained film that's a lot of fun.

9:35Oti: Yeah, and two out of the four movies you've mentioned, we had Jamie Foxx in there.

9:39KT: I have him on my mind. What can I say? That, um, that visual of Jamie Foxx upside down in Django lives rent free, Oti. I was disappointed when we actually watched it. Cause I think I had an extended cut, if you'll pardon the pun, in my head, because it was there for two seconds. I was like, Nani? Where's the rest of it? Have you cooled off a bit, Oti?

10:06Oti: Yeah, let's move on.

10:07KT: Well, even thinking of Jamie Foxx, I can ride this one solo, if you'll pardon the pun.

10:12Oti: Wow.

10:15KT: Oh, thank you to the team at Madman Films as well as Nixco, um, for access. To Shayda. Um, thank you to our friends and lovers that have had a chance to already listen to the audio interview with writer director, Noora Niasari on Shayda. Um, in that, in the intro, um, I also mentioned that Shayda is the official Australian submission for foreign international film in the 2024 Academy Awards. Um, it's very exciting. We also, um, talk about, I guess the importance in giving accolades to, you know, the texture and the layers of Australian identity

10:58KT: and how Shayda fits into that, um, imagery as well. So let me get into my initial thoughts and I guess we can have a general sort of discussion since you listened to the interview as well. Shayda leads with love and guides with care through the very real shift in hope and fear that women and many others experience. We focus on Iranian Australian experiences that delivers universal resonance through its compelling performances.

11:27Oti: Tell me about it. How, how was it watching it in the cinema?

11:33KT: You know what? Like, these are my favorite type of films, but they're also not the sort of films that I feel like I can fully experience in a cinema.

11:44Oti: Ooh, say more.

11:44KT: Um, so, so this film follows a mother and daughter, so Shayda, the mother and the daughter, Mona, and, you know, not too much spoilers and we're not going to get into like graphic detail and all that. I referenced She Said a lot in the way that, um, you know, being able to show the pain and show the damage or show, you know, what that means without it being exploitative. I mentioned She Said a lot. Shayda also did it in a beautiful way. It covers domestic violence. It covers abuse. Um, But it does it in a way that's considerate of, and in the humanizing of characters.

12:24KT: Um, so in that it is still a trigger warning, but also in that I'm not going to go into detail specifically, um, about it. And I also love how much care was put into the production of this, which makes sense because Noora talks about how, um, it's not just. You know, her own and her mother's experiences, experiences of many other women as well. Um, it is centered around them escaping and going into a women's refuge. Um, and even from that, it shows, you know, women from all different experiences, all different races, um, that unfortunately have that commonality, have that sort of thread. And they find that, you know, it more than a friendship. It's, it.

13:09KT: It's a family. It's a connection. It's a support network. Um, and this film so beautifully pivots between, again, you know, that fear and that hope and that joy. Um, that, that can be fleeting, but also can be lasting as well. Um, it was, it was definitely not easy to watch, but I also feel like film. Is a way to confront hard to talk about issues. It's a way to explore and it's also a way to heal.

13:40Oti: Oh, a hundred percent. A hundred

13:43KT: Um, you know, so, so much care was put into this production. And I think the best thing I can say is go and watch the film, talk about it. Um, you know, there are services that are available, but we'll put it in the show notes as well. 1 800 RESPECT. Um, I'll also put US and UK, um, resources as well. Cause I'm aware that we are, you know, three or five worldwide people. Um, so we'll put some resources in there. Watch with care, watch with love, but definitely watch it is what I would say. Um, there are some great stellar, compelling performances throughout the whole production. Um, you have Zar as Shayda, you also have Selina, um, and it was so comforting to hear from Noora that, um, she was, you know, by and large, not affected by the heavy subject matter in the film. I hope Joel Osment is okay,

14:41KT: maybe a different sort of set. That's a Sixth Sense reference. Friends and lovers. Um, you have Osamah Sami who we saw in Tennyson, um, earlier this year, Leah Purcell, Oti. Leah Purcell. Even Noora was like, she's a fierce fucking mama. And I'm like, yeah, she is.

15:02Oti: Mmhmm.

15:03KT: Um, oh, it's just. It's just great. Um, you know, for our friends and lovers that aren't in so called Australia, if you still, well, we do love Margot Robbie. I don't care for Barbie, but we do love Margot Robbie. Like if you still feel the need to stereotype this country to that image, to that postcard, I would challenge you. And I would say, this is a great way. To expand.

15:29Oti: this to the movie.

15:30KT: Thank you, Oti. I would love to rewatch it again with you leading up to the Academy Awards. If the SAG-AFTRA strike can hurry up and end IE to the studios.

15:39Oti: Oh, yeah.

15:41KT: Would you like to move on to another Australian production, Oti?

15:46Oti: Let's do that.

15:47KT: Thank you to Madman Films, as well as Nixco. Um, they, we do have a series of interviews that are coming out next week, including with the creator of Scarygirl, Nathan Jurevicius. Give us your first impressions, Oti.

16:03Oti: Scarygirl offers an intriguing journey through a vividly crafted world, while it celebrates the theme of self-acceptance, the film offers an interesting watch with a blend of highs and lows. It felt very lived in. I wanted to be there. The characters were drawn, so intriguingly and how they interacted with the world as well. I just enjoyed it. Uh, I, I had fun with it. I never knew of Scarygirl as an IP before watching this, but it's apparently it's been there for ages. So, what's not to love?

16:37KT: Through different mediums. And I guess if I can call back Cobweb, you know, Nathan is a great example of someone that does do the art.

16:45Oti: hmm.

16:45KT: Scarygirl is a rich world with a heartwarming message of belonging, trust, and the world around us. Arkie proves to the dreamers in all of us that anything is possible. Well, first off our first interview for a younger audience, our first interview for an animated film. Um, it's so cool just to be able to hear the creative process. Um, and it's not going to make the interview, but it was really cute to like, you know, when you get on the call, like the interview call and you connect. Um, we spent a couple of minutes talking about our yellow wall, Oti.

17:21Oti: Oh, Ben would love that.

17:23KT: Yeah, but it wasn't just like, he wasn't just saying that it's a cool yellow wall. He was talking about the different turns in it. And in classic me fashion, I was like, yes, Oti and I painted this and we're still together. Um, but it's Scarygirl is a lot of fun because like you said, the, the aesthetics is very distinct. It's very visual. It's very tonal. It's very textural.

17:53Oti: Yeah, it is. And I think it sort of elevates everything about the storytelling as well.

17:59KT: Oh, I might need to leave, I might need to leave you there, Mr. Skrinkle.

18:04Oti: Oh, really?

18:05KT: Yeah.

18:06Oti: Okay, tell me. Tell me what was, um, the qualm.

18:10KT: Okay. So what I, I think let's start off with what I enjoyed about the storytelling. I I I I liked how the overall messaging, especially in the themes of environmentalism, especially in the, I also said to him that he executed it better than Avatar, you know, and I might've also whispered capitalism as well. You

18:35KT: You know, be still the same boat, Oti. Um, but particularly in the themes of environmentalism, you know, humans versus machines, um, in those sort of contexts, the overall, um, you know, sort of addressing a messaging in the film, I think was very effective. I think it worked really well. Um, especially when you match it with the vibrant visuals and the. Underscoring, um, sound design. I think it works really well when you went from like the natural world, um, into the very synth, synth sounding, um, sort of city sort of, um, CBD sort of, uh, I guess plugged in the matrix and all of that. Um, and even when you get that sort of conflict. You know, from a storytelling point of view, I think it worked really well in a broad messaging point of view.

19:34KT: Um, however, and Nathan did potentially share something that might be considered a spoiler, but I won't say it cause it's not my IP. Um, but there are some moments that not necessarily pull its own punches, but it definitely. Felt because movie, did you not expect me to critique a younger audience film?

19:57Oti: And that's the reason why I'd say they held back because it's for a younger audience specifically.

20:03KT: so is my review an act of revenge because I can't make art?

20:06Oti: Yeah. Um, I understand. And I think we even talked about it while watching the movie in aspects or at least in areas where we thought that it could have gone harder, but holistically, I think the most interesting thing you said while talking about it sort of broader messaging, hitting the spot is exactly that it's meant to be from a wide sort of angle, rather than it being all zoomed in, because then it loses half its audience.

20:36Oti: I, I wouldn't. I wouldn't go hard into this movie saying, Oh, it could have gone harder in this aspect. No, it met it's brief in what the, in what it's audiences for, while still being entertaining enough for sort of the older audience, like myself, I, I found it to be intriguing in aspects. I think everything that I watched in this, especially when it comes to, um, the character designs or even just animation of it all. It drew me way in than I thought it would have.

21:11KT: So do you feel like from a storytelling point of view, there were enough obstacles in the narrative?

21:18Oti: there was enough for what this movie is.

21:21KT: But you, okay. You,

21:22Oti: you can't, you can't, you can't separate

21:24KT: sure you didn't say that with Shrek been years and I still haven't gotten over it. Yeah. I don't forget her tea.

21:38Oti: It's that, you came out maybe with the same sort of approach as well back then, if I remember correctly. So it's intriguing that you've sort of flipped.

21:46KT: Well, that, the premise is that you remember correctly. Like, I under, I understand it from the point of view of M3GAN, because it was kind of geared to be more mature, but you know, even if you talk about like Spirited Away, for example, you know, if you talk Ghibli, there are films that can still appeal to you. Lion King. Bambi, if I may be so bold, still makes you tear when you think about it to this day. True or false?

22:15Oti: It does.

22:16KT: Exactly.

22:17Oti: My kids back then were built different. They wear their trauma on their sleeves. Yeah.

22:27KT: it on other people. You're a rough kid, Oti. I just, yeah, I don't know, like maybe, maybe my expectations are too high. I'm not saying it was a terrible film. I just feel like there could have been more from a storytelling point of view, which is interesting because the graphic novel. Um, doesn't have any dialogue. It's all visual. And then we translate this into a feature film, right? And even there's also, um, a game as well that has a sort of plot to it. Um, but by, by no means was I bored by this film. By no means was I not entertained by this film. Like I said, the, the way that they addressed environmentalism is better than I've seen in Avatar.

23:15Oti: Yeah, you've said that plenty of

23:17KT: Yeah, and I'll say it again because I really appreciated it and I loved, um, you know, even in the interview that we have coming up, you know, Nathan talks about how, you know, in the natural sort of aesthetic, you have the sun that gets used a lot that is followed a lot. And I, I even, you know, mentioned a lot of ancient cultures. Or even just cultures now, you know, understand the significance of the sun. You know what I mean? So it was really cool to even just talk about the light, like the light that is in this film. And there's definitely a lot of considered care that went into this film.

23:52KT: Um, but as much as you call me baby Oti, I'm not baby. So I would have liked some things to chew on.

24:01Oti: Oh, fair enough.

24:02KT: Can we talk about the cast for a second? Jillian Nguyen, Remy Hii, Rob Collins, Deborah, Intergalactic, Always Forever, Treasure, Mailman, Marco Smith, and Sam Neill.

24:16Oti: Pows!

24:16KT: Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Also, did the Australian accents bother you?

24:20Oti: No. What do you mean? Ha

24:22KT: Yes.

24:23Oti: ha! Oh, I can't do that, can I?

24:26KT: Nathan and team or anyone that's looking for voice actors, please consider Oti for your consideration. Thank

24:32Oti: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

24:34KT: anthology series of Korean Australian diaspora called Night Bloomers. Thank you to the team at Nixco as well as SBS.

24:52Oti: impressively weaves cultural nuance with horror. Its tales are as thought provoking as they are chilling. A standout anthology that both unsettles and resonates. I enjoyed the hell out of this.

25:05KT: How good, right? So good. Standalone and interconnected stories are woven together through universal themes of what it means to carry the very parts of who you are and melding them with the newer, more unfamiliar parts of you. That's just a wanky way of talking about the immigration story, Oti.

25:27Oti: Mm hmm. You know, there's nothing deeper than catch all stories told by their own and, and you could see, you could, and the nuance palpitates.

25:38KT: Yes!

25:39Oti: I really enjoyed watching this. Um, I think it's one of those things that I would even go back for seconds just because it's of how tight knit it was from a story perspective and it's, it's in sort of, you know, tiny bite sized, you know, bits that,

25:59KT: I wanted more. Right? I wanted more. Um.

26:03Oti: Now, this is the American Horror Story I would have gone for, for 10 seasons, give it a full feature. Ooh, look at you, you're all over the American Gods. Like a,

26:13KT: Like a, like an in between of American Horror Story and American Gods.

26:16Oti: Ooh.

26:17KT: Um, yeah. And, and Friends and Lovers, I did have the opportunity to interview, um, Undi Lee and, Oh, it was such a great chat. Um, it's wild to think that we feel the time, but we did feel the time. And one of the questions that I actually really wanted to ask, but, um, didn't get to was, are we going to see more? Because I don't have many qualms with Night Bloomers. I think it's a plus that it's called bloomers and the colonial powers made us both understand what you meant by bloomers.

26:51Oti: Uh,

26:52KT: Um, but the qualm that I have with Night Bloomers was that it wasn't enough, um, to have five very separate stories in the format of about 12 minutes. Oh, Oti, we love a degustation. We love a. Tasting platter, but I needed so, so, so much more, you know, we can talk about globally in the world, um, you know, embracing the one inch barrier of subtitles, um, with Bong Joon-ho, um, you know, there's definitely a rise, you know, Squid Game. As well, um, there's definitely a rise in consuming of Korean cinema, K drama, and just entertainment overall. But if we're talking about Korean Australian immigrant experiences, we haven't got And it was, it was a great, it was a great taster, but I needed, I needed, needed more, and I don't want to spoil anything.

27:48KT: I think what happened so well, and again, one of the questions that, um, wasn't as important, but it would have been cool to ask was the ordering of the episodes, because I think it was done really well. There's a great mixture of, you know, um, I guess what you would anticipate as like a traditional Korean horror story. There are things that you would anticipate of a modern Um, you know, Korean Australian experiencing elements of horror. Um, and you, you experience a whole interweaving and an intermingling, maybe even social commentary through the device of horror as well. Are you nasty? Are you satiated Oti? Are you feeling a bit splooshy?

28:26KT: There is, there's so much that's explored and even in regards to the lore, you know, there's a goblin in one of the episodes. It was a lot of fun to, you know, talk about, um, you know, Undi even talks about how the, the, even the concept or, or the character design of the goblin was questioned because of the Western lens that was viewing the goblin being like, nah, bruh, hashtag not my goblin. And it was so great to be able to, you know, talk about it and be about it. And I really appreciated that about Undi, but, you know, going back to Night Bloomers, there's so much, like, you just know that, you know, these could all just be feature films in and of themselves. To be able to explore them. Um, and I really enjoyed it.

29:17KT: And I guess what I want to come to when I said American Gods, I say that with the highest of compliments and in succinctly, I guess, in regards to season one of American Gods, where it was at its prime. Um, but the reason why I referenced that is because, you know, for a lot of us. For me in particular, being a child of Tongan immigrants, you know, there is that sort of picking up everything, you know, including your customs and your beliefs and your lore and trying to, to, to piece that together with that new sort of identity.

29:51KT: And it feels as painful as I am describing, because it isn't, it isn't an unconscious sort of thing.

29:58Oti: It covers so much and it's sort of limited sort of runtime. And it's something that I would definitely love to hopefully down the road to get, um, a bit more out of these, whether they're featured film, feature films, or we get up, or we get more of a series out of it. I would enjoy the hell out of it because definitely there's a space for it. And there's a demand and a need

30:21Oti: Mm hmm.

30:22KT: Also, it's set in Western Sydney, or at least it's filmed in Western Sydney.

30:27Oti: Oh, that's why you could relate, eh?

30:31KT: well, I've come across a goblin in Western Sydney in my time.

30:41KT: I guess while we're on the tail end, friends and lovers, um, Scarygirl will be in Australian cinemas from the 26th of October, um, and Night Bloomers will be available on SBS VICELAND as well as SBS On Demand, um, from October 28th, but thank you, friends and lovers for joining us another week in the For Your Reference household. Uh, we have a couple of interviews coming up. We're also gearing up for an ooky spooky Halloween special, and we'll finally get to Oti's Top Boy. You're lying. Uh, if you want to find us, if you want to fight with us on Twitter, Instagram, Spill and Bluesky, we're @ForYourRefPod.

31:19Oti: Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com

31:22KT: We're also on support Australian creative talent podcasts. If you'd like to leave a rating and review, and we'll see you guys next week.

31:31KT: Bye.