Bend It Like Beckham – Jess Do It

Full transcript of Bend It Like Beckham – Jess Do It.

0:00KT: Good day. It's another week in the For Your Reference household. We are starting off with your phrase or mine. And the captain for this week is Oti. Phillips.

0:00Oti: Just

0:13Oti: keeping in theme of love. Oh my. I have a proverb for you. Okay. In love, there's always one who kisses and one who offers the cheek.

0:25KT: Hey, you don't need to tell people. You don't need to tell people what we get up to Oti. Think we've given them enough to accept. Think, you know, love is a give and take.

0:40Oti: Much fair enough. Yeah. Quite good.

0:43KT: Digging it out. Let's get on with the show. Hey, Britton friends and lovers. Welcome back to For Your Reference. You got your host, KT.

0:43Oti: And Oti.

0:43KT: And get your flailing arms ready for some juicy juicy mangoes because this week, we are covering Bend It Like Beckham. Woo hoo. Woo hoo hoo. The 2002 film Mhmm. Is it a film, Martine? It's a film. It is highly contested. A film is something we hold dear or, you know, it gives us sorts of layers. And if we don't fucking like it, it's a movie.

1:43KT: This is a film. It is a film. Let's just quickly go through the stats. We're all into it today. According to IMDb, £3.5,

1:55KT: million.

1:55Oti: Oh, what was that? Not rupees

2:01KT: and not Schrute bucks. Sorry.

2:03Oti: It's 3.5 pounds, okay.

2:05KT: I am 3.5 pounds deep in wine right now. Yes, British pounds, which approximately was $6,000,000 US budget Mhmm. And it grossed worldwide $76,500,000. Woah. Yeah. Right? We have writer, creator, also director, Gurinder Chadha. Mhmm. She previously was a reporter. Oh. And she was on BBC Radio. And she was also born in Nairobi, Kenya, would you believe? Oh, yeah. She threw in there. Are you going to claim credit for this film? Of course. How dare you?

2:45KT: And we have a whole slew of characters. Some we have continued to see in TV shows and movies. Some we didn't even realize we've continued to see in TV show and movies. We have Parminder Nagra, Keira Knightley, and Jonathan Rhys Meyers as the main cast for this film. And Archie Panjabi.

3:04Oti: I can't even believe you've not said that because we love Archie in all she does. In Archie We Trust? In Archie We Trust.

3:12KT: Archie Sung. I try kids, I try. What a great, nice, fun little film. I think it's also like, if you just need to rattle off the shackles of your cinephile sort of analysis,

3:32KT: this is a nice sort of movie just to dive into, you know?

3:32Oti: It really is. It's not gonna hurt you. I remember when he finished it and I saw the runtime. I was like, fuck. It was two hours. Yeah. It did not feel like we've sat here for two hours watching this.

3:46KT: Yeah. I I kinda don't agree with that. The story wasn't enough. I enjoyed it more than you did. Unless it is a masterful epic, you know, even Titanic fits into that category. It shouldn't be two hours. You should be able to tell a succinct,

4:02KT: simple story within ninety minutes, dude.

4:02Oti: Well, I felt like it just flowed really, really well that I didn't realize that the runtime was that long. Yeah. Which is Which is credit to to to the director and the brilliant, brilliant acting acting of Archie.

4:20KT: Okay. Kind of a stretch, like stretching the story for two hours, but, you know, Archie is from your Good Wife. Right? Yep.

4:29KT: It took you a while to realize.

4:29Oti: No. It didn't. It was her. I saw her. I realized immediately I saw her.

4:29KT: But did you know that's where she was from, or you just remembered she was familiar?

4:29Oti: No. I how can you forget that face? Like, I just didn't remember that she was in this.

4:45KT: Well, Parminder has been in quite a lot of stuff. Apparently. But she looks different. Like She looks completely different. You would not you would not able be able to recognize her. Yeah. Like, are some people that have really strong faces even from childhood. And I I feel like maybe she grew into her face. I'm not sure. She joined That actually looks completely different from what from the She joined ER a year later. So in 2003, and she was ER. And actually She was on ER for six years. And I'm going remember.

5:14KT: And her her other known for in IMDb is The Blacklist and also Alcatraz. Well, fair enough. We've we gave up on The Blacklist ages ago. And she was on 13 Reasons Why. I feel like I don't remember her in that.

5:27Oti: We we only watched two seasons of that. I think there's a time Don't say only. I think we've watched more than even a teenager

5:34KT: of that TV show. But there you go, a nice light layered cultural film. Let's get into first impressions. You can continue talking about first impressions of actors. I particularly would love to hear more about your love of football or as the Americans like to say soccer.

6:02Oti: What are you calling? What are you calling Katana's Kitana? Kitana's brother? It's Katara, not Katara. Katara. Jesus. Yeah. Katara is Okay. Whole Whole M. Night Shyamalan.

6:16KT: You failed that. Oh, I did. You're trying to insult him and you just prove that you don't know anything either. It's been years, man, since we watched that. And we never And it's not an excuse. Yeah. And we never forget that experience. Experience. But I would love to hear just in particular, especially because we have a lot of American listeners just to explain how global and how significant like football is. I think that might be a nice sort of background.

6:42KT: And I guess how you felt watching the movie. And you've watched it how many times? Is this the second time?

6:42Oti: This is the second time.

6:42KT: Okay.

6:42Oti: Oh, football is huge. It's huge in Africa. It's definitely

6:53Oti: huge everywhere else apart from at least back then when I thought America wasn't into football that much. So, anyway, from my frame of reference, this movie was really big, I think. It came out in 2002. I watched it a year later when Arsenal were really having a good run, and I, like, I love football. It was a movie about football. What's not to like? Mhmm. And the fact that it had David Beckham on it, despite the fact that he played for Manchester United

7:21Oti: so Arsenal and Manchester United are rivals, although our rivals back then, right now say every team is your rival.

7:27KT: No. Not really. Every time you're playing another team and you should you should feel welcome because I just said you're playing. Every time you're playing someone, you always say, oh, they're our enemy, but apparently everyone's your enemy.

7:39Oti: No. But man you, but Beckham was huge. He's marketable. He's Brit, which adds that sort of added tax to his brand.

7:39KT: His tax? Oti is all about the taxes.

7:39Oti: But he's huge. And when we'd finished watching this movie and we had the director describing Beckham as the Jordan of football, that's not something I'd really describe him as. Yes. He's talented and good, but he's not that level. I'd put people like Messi, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho of his time, and

7:39KT: Cristiano Ronaldo?

7:39Oti: No. Ronaldo Ronaldo.

7:39KT: Don't worry, kids. I also don't know what's happening.

8:18Oti: But

8:18KT: Just let just let him continue, and then he'll give you your pleasure. I promise you.

8:18Oti: It was really good, and I just loved it. You know? He's a likable guy.

8:18KT: So So does that mean he's not really talented?

8:18Oti: No. He's talented. He's talented. But there's just just extra extra tax to him because he's Brit, and everything gets overblown way too far.

8:18KT: Or is it because he's, like, good looking, you don't wanna give

8:18Oti: And very marketable. Yeah. He's super good looking and marketable. So

8:44KT: yeah. That's what I mean. Maybe you're taking off some of his talent because, you know, it's like it's like comedians, you know, with Ryan Reynolds and Chris Pratt. Like, pick a fucking lane, guys.

8:55Oti: Chris. Give ugly people a chance. Chris Pratt grew into his body later on, so he didn't start off like that. Yeah. And Anna Faris was around for his loser

9:05Oti: punk ass days.

9:05KT: But that's a story for another day. A story that is relevant for today, do you know why it's called Bend It Like Beckham? Like, that just a marketing thing or is that a phrase in the

9:05Oti: Oh, no. He he could kick a fucking ball, mate. He could carve that ball

9:22Oti: till

9:23KT: team back to me. What do you mean he could curve a ball? Like a penalty type thing? No. Like, if you give him a free kick,

9:30Oti: and he could hit it, and it would carve and just go into the net where people wouldn't even fucking know what's going on. Like, he's that good. He was his free kicks are next to none.

9:30KT: I don't know what a free kick is.

9:30Oti: It's okay. So let's say he's fouled in the middle of near the goalpost or whatever.

9:30KT: I don't know what a foul is.

9:30Oti: Anyway, we had the director say that it all she also used this as a metaphor Uh-huh. For this movie because

9:59Oti: girls, especially in the world of sort of soccer and Indian girls who have the sort of traditional values to try and uphold and try to make their parents happy. Yeah. You have to veer off to a different tangent and just before you get to your point of destination, and that's what we saw in Jess.

10:17KT: Yeah. Yeah. It's I I I guess it's interesting. And being a woman, I understand the plight and I understand that there is a disparity. So definitely credit where credit is due, but I really enjoyed this film.

10:33KT: I really enjoyed it. Did you you watch it with your family? Did you watch it on your own?

10:33Oti: When it came Watching my family, which is weird because they're they're taking their tops off too a lot. And I think

10:33KT: Don't don't guys do that, though? Don't you watch football with your family? Don't guys do that?

10:33Oti: Oh, then again, I was a I was a teenager then, horny as fuck, and then

10:52Oti: golly's taking the tops off with my parents there. It was really uncomfortable.

10:56KT: But you used to watch Tip Drill with your family.

10:56Oti: Oh, you know, when it's

11:00Oti: obvious, you know, like, oh, this is sexual mate, then yeah. But if it's he can make

11:00KT: It's the boners you're not expecting. The unexpected boners are what gets you. Well,

11:11KT: the transactions that Oti taught me through Tip Drill were very expected. Let's just put it that way. Bend It Like Beckham came out when I was still in high school. So it was my formative years

11:27KT: if I was ever narrated by David Attenborough.

11:27Oti: And did you watch it with your family?

11:27KT: Oh, no.

11:33KT: Oh, no. No. No. No. Oh. I had to I had to sneak this movie like Jess had to sneak her career. And we we would watch it at school. So What? No. Not How is that better? Not educational sort of learning, but we would like we'll be like best friends with the teacher and the teacher would let us stay in the classroom during lunchtime and we'll play the movie.

11:33Oti: So the teacher snuck the movie for you?

11:33KT: No. We had the movie ourselves.

11:33Oti: And the teacher knew you're watching it?

11:33KT: Yes.

12:02KT: One of those teachers

12:02Oti: And teacher was just coughing in the corner.

12:02KT: Yeah. Totally. Telling himself that he's Jonathan Rhys Meyers.

12:09Oti: Yikes. You made a comment about Jonathan Rhys Meyers when we were watching it.

12:15KT: What was that? You're saying that he grew into his handsomeness.

12:19Oti: He did, didn't he? He looks like a proper dweeb in that movie. He looks the fucking same. No. He doesn't. Have you watched him recently in Vikings?

12:29KT: He looks Of course, I saw him in Vikings. We've talked about this. He looks

12:33Oti: proper, you know, blokes bloke.

12:36KT: No, mate. He still looks like Sid from Ice Age.

12:40Oti: I could definitely see that in this movie, but fuck was that run at the end of the movie? Oh, yeah. He or he was not a professional footballer. Like, he runs like that. Like, that's where the that's where the con fell apart, to be honest. Yeah. Oh, he played, oh, he played pretending to be a coach quite well. Yeah. Up until that run at the airport where you're like, no, mate. You've never run professionally in your life. At all convinced. Definitely. Oh, for sure.

13:08KT: Hey, friends and lovers. If this is the first time you tuned in For Your Reference, strap in. If you're feeling nasty, strap on. Spoiler, spoilers, spoilers, I guess is what I'm going to say. This has been out for a while, but like I always say, like Oti always argues, we don't film shame around here. Unless your name is KT. If you're nasty. But spoiler spoiler spoiler because obviously we're going to talk about the very thin plot points in this film. But fuck man, that run was atrocious.

13:41KT: We had to rewind that shit like five times. I hope there's a GIF somewhere of that. Oh, yes. Oh, definitely. I really do because I'm going to just just out of context, just use it all the time. But let's talk about it. I think before we actually dive into the characters, I wanna have a bit of a conversation just around, you know, cultural family sort of expectations and what that looks like.

14:09Oti: Like, there's parallels that you can draw to any sort of cultural family where your parents have an expectation of you. Mhmm. They've have they have pretty much your life mapped out in where they see you as, and they do everything to try and get you there. Yep. So if you have ambitions that don't sort of align with that, then there's friction. And how you deal with that is really it's kinda sensitive because

14:35Oti: it's either you go against your parents and you risk them disowning you or Uh-huh. You just do what you think makes you happy. And, hopefully, they'll come on board once they see you they see that you're happy because what parent doesn't want you their kids to be happy? Every every immigrant parent? Pretty much. And that's the sort of things you're dealing with on a day to day where you'd have ambitions, you have a dream of being something, and then

15:01Oti: you quickly squash it in your head if you really don't want to rock the boat. Said I'd like to know if you got emotion.

15:11KT: And that's where it stops. I completely agree with that. Being raised in a cultural and I guess you can take any sort of sense in that. But mostly if you're a person of color and being raised in that sort of context, like love is conditional. Love is not free flowing in a person of color sort of family. And maybe I should just speak about myself. In a Brown family, your love is only allocated to you if you live in the particular prescribed

15:48KT: like path,

15:50KT: essentially. And it's crazy to see. And even in this movie, something, I shouldn't say trivial, but, you know, we're in 2020 now. Something as trivial as the child canoodling around a bus stop, that's enough to call off the wedding of the sibling. Oh, yeah. Like, that's some fucked up shit.

16:12Oti: Yeah. Because you've got, like, weird cultural norms and and and ethos that you have to follow and abide to. And Mhmm. There's so much shit, and you wonder how people survived. But at least for whatever reason, they didn't really describe why Pinkie was allowed to get back to marriage together. I think they said that they thought about it, and they didn't want their son to be unhappy. Yeah.

16:38KT: But It it was just the way to tie the film back together, to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. Understandable. Understandable.

16:44Oti: But it's it's it's exciting. It's it's it's sort of made me chuckle along the way knowing fully well that I could relate

16:52Oti: a lot of those sort of sentiments to my own life. Oh, yeah. And the lives of a lot of my friends, like, it's it's a thing. It's not it's not foreign. It's like your parents are purposely keeping tabs on your friends. So whenever something happens or they achieve something, they're gonna bring it back to you. Oh, for sure. The amount of times I kept on me compared to other kids Mhmm. And I that's that's one of the things that I hated most growing up. Yeah. Why can't you be like,

17:19Oti: that boy, he does so well in school. He's so proper. He does I'm like, fuck it, Hame. Yeah. Go bloody adopt him then.

17:19KT: Yeah. My mom my mom used to do that too. She's like, I bet the neighbor's kids love their parents. And I'm like, what the fuck?

17:33KT: What does that even mean? But, yeah, there were there were many instances in the movie where it was so easy to relate to that. You know? And if you notice a lot of especially what, Jess's mom says is always about how they are going to be perceived. Oh, perception is key. Like you are no longer an entity of your own feeling and volition. You merely exist as a pawn. In the in the strategic chess of your mom, aunties,

18:07KT: and friends. Like, that's that's all you exist for.

18:07Oti: Oh, for sure. For sure. Perception is everything. Fuck whatever you do in private. No one bloody cares. Yeah. Once that thing goes public, that

18:17Oti: is that is the end.

18:17KT: It it was interesting to see the dynamic between Jess and also Pinkie because they they were both very modern sort of young women,

18:28KT: but Pinkie still kind of had her foot in the culture.

18:28Oti: Yeah. Yeah. And it's typical for well, it's kind of common.

18:28KT: Older?

18:28Oti: Yeah. In a lot of the first borns, they kinda try to tow the line more because a lot of expectations are put on them. Yeah. I'm a last born, and I was like, a lot of people before me shook the boat, rocked the boat, and mine was just way easier.

18:52Oti: Even though there were expectations and stuff, at least when I didn't follow them or I tried to do my own things, then they had already been through it, and it wasn't as shocking or as horrifying as it was when they first experienced it. Yeah. Mhmm. Because as as much as, you know, Pinkie was the closest in age to Jess, she still didn't get why Jess wasn't following the path that she was supposed to be following. No. Because in her mind, she's the girlie girl where she's thinking about boys of that age. It's like, you have a boy Tony Tony likes you. Tony has liked you for all this time. It's a given. Like, he's set for life now.

19:26Oti: There are so many good looking Indian guys. Yeah. Well, it's all this with soccer and sports. You go and be with boys and stuff, and and that's what she was coming from. Yeah. Because she still couldn't draw that sort of reference frame of reference with sports.

19:40KT: Yeah. But And a girl at that age. Yeah. But I think it's also, like, it depends because, like, my and I am I'm going to say the youngest. When you say last born, it sounds like some Game of Thrones shit.

19:52Oti: The discarded baby. The last born on the Oti tree.

19:55KT: I I'm the youngest as well. And, you know, my other siblings are more Tongan than I am. Like, they adopt more of the cultural sort of observances and traditions than I do. So I guess it just depends on like the sibling as well. Yeah. But, you know, like there there are many times where Jess would confide

20:17KT: in Pinkie and Pinkie just didn't get it. She's just like, why can't you just do it? Like, it's our culture. Why can't you just do it? But she did try to sort of allow her to do that by keeping secrets and stuff until To a point. To a point. But that isn't that fucking siblings? Like, they will they will be loyal until their ass is on the line. And they all. And you just feel that moment of betrayal. Yeah. For sure. But yeah. So overall, I really enjoyed this movie. Our director, Gurinder,

20:48KT: apparently a lot of her relatives, she got involved, especially in the wedding scene because they wanted to have, like, a real A proper. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So her family just and you saw it, like, in the scene. Everyone just got all in and it felt like you could feel the vibrancy of the wedding. I've actually been to a couple of Indian weddings in my life. I'm not going to say I've got a couple of Indian friends because we know how that goes.

21:14Oti: But My best friend is Indian. Yeah. I know. Right? So I'm allowed to. No.

21:19KT: But, yes, I've been to a couple of Indian weddings in my life and they are wild in all the best ways, like super vibrant. It's amazing. The food's amazing. Everyone's dancing with everybody. It's the fanfare.

21:34Oti: Yeah. It's amazing. It's great. It was really colorful and beautiful. And part of me was sort of I didn't know how to feel about Jess going to play soccer on her sister's wedding

21:59KT: Let's talk about Jess because I have qualms.

21:59Oti: What qualms?

21:59KT: Foundational qualms, She she just wasn't a great character to center this story around.

21:59Oti: Oh, really?

21:59KT: I get that she was in high school. So, you know, she wasn't she didn't have her own place and she was still under the rules of her family. And I get that totally. But she wasn't just naive. I think she kind of used that as a crutch. You know what I mean? Like, let's talk about it. Let's be real about it. Jess and Jules become really good friends. Jules

22:34KT: was such a generous and wholehearted friend. Mhmm. She, you know, she went and she saw that Jess had skills and she brought her into the fold. And not just that, they hung out together. She let her borrow her mom's shoes. Like, they did everything together and she was really letting her feel and be her own person. And she knew that Jules liked Joe. Yeah. There's a lot of J's here. BJ's. Bending J's if you're nasty.

23:05KT: So she knew that her friend liked Joe. Mhmm. But at every opportunity, she tried to stick her tongue wherever she could in in the Rhys Meyers. Oh,

23:14Oti: then again, she was sort of drunk.

23:18KT: Yeah. But how about every other time?

23:22Oti: The first time, well, I could say it's a fair mistake. It could happen to anyone in that sort of situation.

23:22KT: Why Oti is not allowed to get drunk in public.

23:22Oti: And no. I just feel like I understood where it was coming from, and it wasn't sort of malicious or anything. Anyway, that's how I took it, and she did she did sort of apologize

23:46Oti: for it.

23:46KT: But she did it again.

23:48KT: So what does your apology mean?

23:48Oti: But that's after Joe and Jules had already discussed it. And I think Joe just told Jules, mate, us ain't gonna work because this is sort of this is sort of skipped the whole conversation a bit. Uh-huh. Because when Jules went to Jess later after talking to Joe, she'd sort of accepted it and was like, I came here for Joe because Joe is fucking heartbroken or whatever state he's in or heartbroken per se, but worried. And

24:16Oti: I assumed that, oh, maybe Joe just told told her what's up. I don't know.

24:16KT: Like this isn't really the sort of movie where you would deep dive and find extra layers because they weren't there. So I get that. It's just problematic to have a Romeo Juliet, I meet you one second and then I come the next. You know what I mean? Like, that that was just a bit in the way. Like, I'm all about friendship and, you know, know, know, clits before dicks. Is that what they say? Yeah.

24:48Oti: That's that's exactly what they say.

24:51KT: Well, I'm sure there's a porn version of Bend It Like Beckham. Maybe Bend For Beckham?

24:57Oti: Right?

24:58KT: Yep. Pornhub, contact us, please. We've got sent Oti over here. But that really bothered me but just going back to Jess as an actual character, she was very useless I think is the best sort of word. I enjoyed the movie. I enjoyed everything about the movie, but her as a character and the decisions or the lack of decisions, the sense of control that she relinquishes and she wonders why things are that way as if she didn't have that control to start off with. I had qualms with. She reminded me of Bella from Twilight. Right?

25:41Oti: No. She's not that level.

25:43KT: Come on now.

25:43Oti: Give

25:45Oti: two more movies and you'll see.

25:50KT: But she reminded me of Bella from Twilight. She definitely could have been more like Chihiro from Spirited Away because Chihiro

25:59KT: was useless, but she was what? Like what? Six? 10?

26:02KT: She was a fucking kid. Right? But she came into her own. Until the end of this movie, Jess was still trifling around and I was not a fan of

26:02Oti: I don't I don't agree. Like, she's she's young. No. But you're also taking over the fact that this is like a light movie. Right?

26:02KT: Yeah. Yeah. But it's a light movie that was two fucking hours. So give me give me some more, please.

26:27Oti: Well, we have we have Jess. She's sort of battling whether or not she can follow her dreams and her goals. Mhmm. And with that comes all this sort of emotions, this conflict where she doesn't really want to hurt her parents either. So in her in her battle to try and please everyone, she kinda hurt a lot a few people along the way and be noest to her. It wasn't like she was going out of her way to make Jules or or or even Pinkie to some extent, let them down or anything like that.

27:03KT: Yeah. But it's like she took up all of the emotional space in a room. And she always needed to be saved.

27:11Oti: She needed to be reminded that her goals are valid, and that's really important, I felt, because she was always and this is this is one of the things she said to Joe. What is it that when I'm always about to give up, you come up you come to me and make me want to fight again, whatever. Mhmm. Like, it's it's it's hard. It's difficult. And in a situation where we've had sort of our goals and dreams squashed by our parents Mhmm. It's really understandable to

27:41Oti: resonate with her and to feel her pain and her struggles. Like, I expected this behavior from her because I felt like it would be this sort of genuine way a person would deal with that.

27:52KT: I don't know. Again, it's a light movie. Right? So you don't necessarily have to find depth everywhere. But for me, like, once it starts hitting seventy, eighty minutes, I'm looking at my nonexistent watch. And I'm like, come on now. I've run out of snacks. So if I've run out of snacks forty minutes in, you kind of need to entertain me for the last stretch of the film. Fair enough.

28:20KT: But that's I guess that's just something that I had that got in the way of me fully enjoying it, but all this was nice. Like, you know, whenever people make lists of like feel good movies, this is definitely on the list. Oh, for sure. There's there's a couple of hateable characters.

28:20Oti: I didn't care so much for

28:36Oti: Jules' mother because I felt like she was bigoted.

28:41KT: But then why why aren't why isn't Jess's mom bigoted?

28:41Oti: She is.

28:41KT: Well Well, that's the first time you've mentioned it because you had plenty of opportunity. But you just went straight for Jules' mom.

28:41Oti: No. She is. She is. But I guess I'm coming with frame of references here and

28:41KT: She's being a Karen is what you're saying. Yeah. She's looking to complain to the manager is what you're saying. Yep. She kind of she kind of reminded me of Amy Poehler and Mean Girls Yeah. Where she plays the mom. But

29:14KT: obviously, Bend It Like Beckham, Jules' mom had a bit more heart. But she was very that well-to-do, very feminine sort of statement.

29:23Oti: Painted us accepting and trying to go above and beyond to try and understand and be part of a a family with Jules and and the dad. And in her effort to try and understand what soccer and football or football is about. And then the next minute, she finds out or she assumes that Jules is lesbian, and then that just sets her off tangent, and she really just loses it. We are tough. To the point Yep. That when Jules she's driving Jules to Pinkie's wedding. She causes a scene.

29:56Oti: Yeah. But it's a it's a very Karen scene to have. Is it really? Yeah. Where she's been sort of kind of composed up until then? She had seen her before at the stadium when the she thought they were kissing or whatever. Why not approach it then? Why wait until you go to someone's wedding and bring it up in front of everyone and then take their shoes?

30:17KT: Yeah. But shoes, but still. Yeah. But then you can also put it on the other end and then you have, you know, like the Indian side of the family completely withdrawing and disbanding the wedding because they saw the girl with what they thought was a boy. That's

30:36KT: a bit more of a boss move than taking someone's shoes at the wedding. Canceling a wedding is is a big boss dick move.

30:36Oti: Yeah. But that wasn't in front of everyone, was it?

30:36KT: Mate, you don't think For a family that cares about the airs. Do you not think the community talks though?

30:50KT: Come on now. Everyone is whispering. I also liked I think it was like an engagement sort of event that they had at the house and the phone was ringing and all of the aunties were checking the phone to see if it was theirs. Yeah. I thought that was a very nice sort of relatable moment. The feelings you have about Jules' mom, I think, is too much to tackle in this episode. I see it. I hold it just like I hold you. I acknowledge it. But there is bigotry all around.

31:21KT: It is not exclusive to white people Oti. You wanted to tip to her, I'm going right there. Yeah, take it there. What are they I think they said Gora. Gori. Gora. No, but they did say Gori and I think that was for a woman. Maybe it's like Spanish where it's like masculine and feminine. Maybe, I didn't catch that. Here's your little Tongan lesson because I barely do that on this podcast. How you say white people, Oh,

31:52Oti: white people in Swahili is Mzungu.

31:55KT: Why are you pretending like you had to think about it?

31:58Oti: It's what I have in my back pocket.

32:01KT: I think if you ask our Google, it's it's what you've been using quite a lot around here. But it's interesting. I I think it showed some, like, some nice sort of parallels because, obviously, Jess has some cultural barriers that she has to get through. But Jules,

32:16KT: a white, you know, young woman, she still had to go through some sort of bigotry as well, like you were mentioning. Yeah. It was nice to see her interact with her dad. That was those were some nice moments to have as well. Yeah. There really was. Yeah. I think both of them were close to their dads actually. Yeah. And it's sort of weird that the dads were both the most understanding people in the movies. Right? Yeah. Because both dads let their kids be do what they wanted to some extent. But I think I think in many cases for dads, they're just glad that their daughters aren't hanging around dicks all the time figuratively

32:49KT: and literally.

32:51Oti: True. But it's it's sort of because in my sort of culture, it's the dads that are really stern. At least my dad was super stern. It's the mothers that you sort of have wiggle and play with

32:51KT: Wasn't he kind of soft with your sisters, though?

32:51Oti: Oh, he he didn't say much. He just because that's what that's what just sort of bummed a lot of things to my mom to deal with.

32:51KT: The bad guy.

32:51Oti: Yeah. Like, oh, yep. She'll tell you that shit. Yeah. But

33:15Oti: when my dad started take action on shit, that's when you know things have escalated beyond. Yeah. Like, that's when you know you're fucking in trouble. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's not fun anymore. That's when you fucked up properly.

33:15KT: That's

33:28KT: when you use your delicious Kenyan legs and you run.

33:28Oti: Yes.

33:28KT: Oh, the moment I realized I could outrun myself out of beatings was the most glorious day of my life. Because your parents start to get older and all of that taro, all of that starch, all of that meat starts to weigh them down. Oh, you didn't say muscles, You know, maybe we can do some biological science lessons, but not today. Oti Hubbard.

33:59Oti: But it it is sort of interesting that the dads were sort of the most accepting and With girls, though. It's it's different with, like, a father and a daughter. Oh, yes. If if both were if both were men, I'd assume that it wouldn't have gone the same way for sure. I think so. It would have been

34:19KT: a bit different. But this this is just a random question in general. When you would watch Bend It Like Beckham, have you ever watched, like, any Bollywood sort of movies?

34:29Oti: I grew up watching a lot of Bollywood movies.

34:29KT: Okay. Okay. So this wasn't, like, your first sort of dipping of your toes?

34:29Oti: This is this is barely Bollywood.

34:29KT: Oh, snooty snoot. Let's pull our noses up.

34:29Oti: You know, seriously, like, I grew up I remember watching what was it called? Those series that used to keep on playing because we had the one channel. Okay. And every day at 04:00 with our tea, we used to have tea at 04:00 every day.

34:29KT: Cute.

34:29Oti: And with our tea, there was this pro Bollywood show called Ramayan.

35:02Oti: Mhmm. It was about brother two brothers who were battling for bloody throne or something, and they used to shoot arrows, and there'll be gods giving them powers or powering the it's bloody amazing. Wow. And, minister, that got me really hooked on a lot of Bollywood stuff, and I would watch a lot of Bollywood movies growing up. So I've plunged more than my toe in Bollywood movies. You've plunged your plunge?

35:27KT: If I had one. That was very was very Inbetweeners of me, but hopefully you'll forgive me. Yeah. Bollywood was big in Tonga, but also like Polynesians in Australia. Like, Bollywood was massive. And you would have just heard our La Casa de Papel third episode covering part four. And we recently came across a Twitter thread of if La Casa de Papel was casted by Indian actors, and they mentioned that Shah Rukh Khan would be El Professor.

35:59Oti: Yeah. That's one of the only things I agreed with on that list. That would be

36:03KT: that's when I would actually agree that El Professor is a genius. Yeah. But something that you probably didn't know, you're not really a big cricket sort of fan, are you? No. Okay. So this is not gonna impress you in any way. But Brett Lee was a very famous well, he's alive, but I don't know if he's still playing cricket, but very famous Australian cricketer. I don't know why. I don't know who and I don't know why. But he actually starred in a Bollywood film called UnIndian.

36:33Oti: Oh, UnIndian? Yeah.

36:35KT: Wow. Like the full on works in Bollywood. Wow. Yeah. I I again, I don't Like trying to the Indian someone? You'll be proud to know I haven't watched this movie. Oh. Wow. No. But he fully like, it's it's not like an Australian production. Like, he went to India. He went to Bollywood, and he made his own movie. Wow. There you go. Yeah. But, you know, Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham. If you like a bit more of horror. Oh, but yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Bollywood, it's so vibrant. It's great. I don't care for Bride and Prejudice.

37:10Oti: That's just because Colin Firth isn't in it. So stop pretending as if it's

37:10KT: I'm not pretending.

37:15KT: The BBC miniseries is the only Pride and Prejudice I acknowledge in the For Your Reference household. Fair enough. And we've got a lot of time on our hands, so we're gonna fucking watch it and we're gonna cover it. And you're going to enjoy it. But have you ever seen Pride and Prejudice? No. It's too much. What I loved about a lot of the Bollywood

37:50Oti: So there you go. And we used to learn the choreography on those most of those things. Oh, yeah. So me and my sister would be there all just dancing and rewinding and rewinding until we got the routine. Yeah.

38:01KT: Stuff. Like like and that's that's a problem. Like, if you learn anything or if you even have 0.001% talent, like, parents will make you do that at family gatherings. Right? Yep.

38:15Oti: And weddings.

38:17KT: Yeah. So there's there's a song, You Are My Soniya, Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham. And we learned that dance. And it's like modern hip hop Bollywood. So it's very you need to have a lot of confidence is what I'm saying. You need to be able to look people in the eye after you do it is what I'm saying. And we would be forced to do that at every sort of family gathering and it was very embarrassing. Right? I I I'm sure that has an effect on me sort of cultural appropriation?

38:47KT: Not if you do it with a smile. Not if you try to pronounce the words. Is that the rule? Is that the loophole? Yeah. Probably. We just went through the cultural appropriation walkthrough, guys.

39:02Oti: Join us next week.

39:04KT: But, yeah, oh, Bollywood was great. And this had nothing to do with Bollywood, but I don't know the next time we'll be able to have this sort of conversation. Yeah. So it was nice to have indeed, but it was it was an interesting experience just watching this because lately we've been watching a lot of, immigrant sort of stories or the children of immigrants. Master of None is a very nice episode that we dived into and we shared a bit more about our personal experiences culturally and that sort of thing.

39:37KT: And we also recently watched Little America which was also beautiful and heartbreaking, but it really encapsulates what it's like to be children or to be immigrants. And adapting to a new world. And how much do you relinquish as a part of your own identity being your culture to fit into that new sort of culture? Obviously, there are some more tangible themes to latch onto

40:06KT: in Master of None and also in Little America. But I definitely thought it was worth calling out here because it made me think like to come out at a time in 2002.

40:16KT: I think that was quite a daring thing to do because we're used to watching that now. Right?

40:16Oti: Yeah. It sort of felt different back then. You know? I can't I think I'll I just watch it in the lens of I love football and this movie will just be great. But Mhmm. Rewatching it now, it sort of has a lot of themes on there that, you know, as much as it's not fully delving into the depths of some sort of cultural issues and stuff, it still tries

40:44Oti: to portray some issues that that it still tries to bring light some issues that you'd sort of want to sit with your parent and watch. Yeah. That your parent maybe will see, oh, yeah, actually. Maybe my kids should have dreams and stuff with their own, you know? Yeah. I don't have to have this set path for them.

40:44KT: Well, it's understandable because if you

41:06KT: you know, the world is moving by, but I think a lot of us are in the same sort of age bracket. Even though sometimes when I'm talking to Oti, it feels like I'm talking to Pierce from Community. Wait.

41:17Oti: Let me put my ear, Oculus on. I can't hear you.

41:21KT: And when when they have the eight bit special episode, and he's, like, in the corner Oh, that's you playing games. Damn, dog. Final Fantasy seven remake is well underway. But, you know, I feel like we're all in the same sort of age bracket where, you know, a lot of how we feel

41:39KT: kind of governs how we operate. Right?

41:39Oti: And, you know, one of the sort of things that this movie also raised for me back then was that it's not only academics is academic things that can bring you success in life. Uh-huh. Like, you'd see Beckhams or whatever making making bank and shit, but you'd never really associate that with you as as a boy in Kenya. And academic

42:05Oti: stuff was everything that was put pressure on. Like, you just had to be good in math, physics, science, chemistry, biology. Uh-huh. You know? If you're not good in those, then you're a fucking failure. I get it. So there's so much pressure in you being a bookie that sports was just more to relieve tension and pressure or whatever. But it shouldn't be waste. But it shouldn't any by any sort of means be your main thing. Uh-huh. So right now, they're actually sort of revamping the curriculum and trying to harness people's skills rather than just shoving

42:36Oti: things, knowledge, academic stuff into their heads Yeah. And being like, hey. Here you go. You've got your

42:42Oti: three science degrees on there. Off you go. You're set for the world because you're really not. Mhmm. So at least now they're trying to re they're realizing that it's not only academic stuff that can bring you success and happiness in life. There's so much more to life than that. And I think it it does well for any sort of government to recognize that because at the end of the day, it's going to help the economy as well. If you can get people into vocations

43:04Oti: that make sense and as early as possible, they can start to thrive in those sort of vocations

43:04KT: For sure. Everyone wins.

43:04Oti: Yeah. Because I did well, I did physics,

43:13Oti: chemistry, and biology, and three humanities in bloody histories, religious education, and fucking home science. I can't even remember the fuck that was. And I was losing my hair, mate. It's it's crazy that maybe that's why my hair doesn't grow so long anymore because it's just a fucking pressure.

43:13KT: But you got them in the right places.

43:32Oti: It's ridiculous how the education system was, and it was all just a matter of cramming rather than knowing stuff. So you just cram as much as you fucking have to, go and do exam and that's it.

43:32KT: And it's funny because you talk about like African parents

43:46KT: and in this this film, we can see Indian parents and just broader sort of Asian parents and you know how everyone has to be like a doctor, like an engineer A lawyer. Lawyer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like and like I see that and I understand it but like Polynesians is well, if you are Polynesian and you've had that pressure, let me know. I feel like we don't have that same sort of pressure. It's literally go to school, do your best, but don't get fucking pregnant. And also give all your money to me.

44:20KT: But there wasn't really like you have to you have to be the best. Right? Not even like get A's or whatever but you need to be the best. Like there was never really that sort of pressure. I will speak on behalf of Polynesian culture. Otherwise we just have Dwayne The Rock Johnson as Oti likes to say.

44:43KT: Nothing, no comment?

44:43Oti: No, let me let you fly.

44:43KT: But the only thing is I seem to be the only one capable in my siblings, so I got a lot of pressure. Mhmm. But culturally, I don't think at least relative to what I see for, like, African Indian, Asian sort of parents,

44:59KT: we I I definitely, as a culture, we didn't get that much pressure.

44:59Oti: Well, I started rocking the boat quite early because I used to duck going to Sunday school because I wanted to hang out with a security guard. Oh, no. And then I told my parents I wanted to be a security guard when I grew up. And they knew there's something wrong with this fucking boy. So they became way even more strict and stuff.

44:59KT: Maybe because you were hanging around some grown man.

44:59Oti: It was anything to get away from bloody

45:27Oti: stupid Sunday school and their bloody teachings.

45:27KT: So you got a you you got away from the priest, which was an old man, to cleave to another old man. Speaking of our parents and being worried about you, you know, my name isn't very common. Well, Katie is, but my actual Tongan name isn't very common. And, you know, there there wasn't a lot of representation when I was growing up. But I had heard of the singer, k.d. lang, and she had short hair. And I cried and cried and I begged my parents to cut my hair.

46:05KT: And since that moment, they were worried and they were always wondering and waiting for me to tell them that I was a lesbian. So that's a nice little

46:13Oti: You reckon they're still waiting?

46:15KT: I think they're waiting for you to tell them something that's just another reference back to Jules' character and her mom like it's I don't know. It it must be an interesting sort of position to be in to be a parent.

46:15Oti: Yeah. It really is.

46:15KT: It is? Oh, yeah. Sorry. You've got, like, 80 babies around the world.

46:15Oti: I do. Hey. As long as I don't have to pay for their child support, I'm fine. But it was so good watching this movie again. Like, I think

46:43Oti: it was fun seeing how everyone's character so so everyone in the movie, how the careers came to be, you know, Keira Knightley is fucking massive. Yeah. You have Jonathan Rhys Meyers who's massive as well. We I thought Parminder didn't do anything, but she's in fucking everything now. Yeah. She just doesn't look the way that we thought she would look. Yeah. So it seems like everyone went on to have really good careers. And you're Archie. And Archie. The only thing sad about Archie is,

47:13Oti: so when The Good Wife ended, they left in bad times with, I think, the director and Julianna. Uh-huh. And she wasn't even invited in the sort of final closing meeting that they do, you know, you know, how the cast would assemble.

47:13KT: So this is, like, not part of the show?

47:13Oti: This is Yeah. Like, it like, it was just and when a fan asked Archie why she didn't attend the closing sort of cast meeting or whatever

47:36Oti: with the fans, and she was like, oh, I didn't know it was happening. When was that? And I was like, fucking hell. But I thought Julianna was surprised. Even the last season, Julianna and Archie didn't have scenes together. What what happened? No idea. I don't know what bloody happened. It was just really awkward. You could tell something changed. I guess she wasn't the good wife after all. No. She's far from the good wait. She she she's not even good wife. That that that show should have just been renamed to something else. Damn, Doug.

48:02Oti: Did not she did not play a good wife for too long.

48:05KT: Okay.

48:07Oti: Not sure if that's a spoiler.

48:07KT: If you want us to cover it, I haven't surprise, surprise, I haven't watched it. So

48:07Oti: We we have. We have to cover The Good Wife. You know what? The Kings are being slept on. They've created The Good Wife. They have The Good Fight. They have Evil.

48:23KT: They have some solid shows, mate. If I may, the Kings sleep on people.

48:29Oti: You just have to check out the Evil.

48:29KT: Oh, fucking hell. No way.

48:29Oti: Evil is awesome. Evil is amazing.

48:37KT: In the name of KT, I rebuke you. But what a nice movie. What a nice movie all around. Also give a shout out to Anupam, the dad. He is everywhere. He's not the daddy of Bollywood, but he's pretty close. Shaznay Lewis plays Mel who's the captain for the team and she's from All Saints. I told you.

48:37Oti: Yeah. You did.

48:37KT: I told you she was from All Saints. And let us not forget, obviously,

49:06KT: the international smash hit single Never Ever, but also the single Booty Call. Mhmm. Do yourself a favor. Even stop this podcast. Go and listen to Booty Call by All Saints. And you are all most welcome. I really enjoyed this movie all around. I'm getting old, I'm getting bitter and movies that I used to enjoy like Bad Boys two, when the story starts to lack, unfortunately my enjoyment starts to dissipate as well. But that's fine. That's just me, Gran Torino KT yelling But on the

49:45KT: I really enjoyed this movie. I really liked it. I liked that how they were some cultural layers as well. With our director Gurinder, she also said like, you don't have to be Indian to appreciate those sort of, you know, expectations culturally, know, the way the family unit sort of operates, you don't necessarily have to be Indian to be able to enjoy those things. Yeah. Because you also have Jules who's also going with the sort of typical

50:11KT: girl world problems that your typical sort of family would have.

50:11Oti: Did you say girl world problems?

50:11KT: Yeah.

50:18KT: We've got a long way to go. We have got a long way to go, friends and lovers. But you know what? We are doing our dundidly hardest. Dundidly hardest indeed. Oti Flanders. Do you trust people that are left handed?

50:37Oti: Yeah. Why why won't you trust left handed people?

50:40KT: I used to try and do everything in my left hand until my parents bit There's it out of a difference between being ambidextrous and there's a difference between, you know, fully a 100% capable in your left hand. Isn't there like some old wives tale that they're the spawn of Satan?

50:55Oti: I've never heard that. Maybe you're one of them. And that's why you're attracted to me, so win win.

51:03KT: Hello, Tee. Well, hopefully, you guys have enjoyed this episode almost as much as a pussy enjoys Jonathan Rhys Meyers All Up In There. Oh, yeah. Can I just say, like, if I'm talking about people that look like their address is residential pussy, Jonathan Rhys Meyers is high up on that list? Oh, for sure. And we also have Jude Law. He's also in that list as well. And there's that guy that's in Ma. Ma? Yeah. With Octavia oh, sorry. As you like to call it, Olivia Spencer. Who's in Ma that's

51:42Oti: team Roth? He is begging for pussy. Oh, that's loose. Who's in ma that's He is begging for pussy. He is not swimming.

51:53KT: He is not swimming in pussy. His name is something Evans. Luke Evans. Luke Evans. Let me show you a picture of this pussy motherfucker.

52:05Oti: Nah. Not in your bussy? Not in my bussy.

52:12KT: How about Idris Elba? Yes.

52:14Oti: Oh, yeah. Yeah. But he's married now, so nah. Well, for the bussy, he's

52:14KT: Oh, what we get up to, Oti. Mhmm. No one needs to know. Yes.

52:29KT: Bend It Like Beckham is PG, but you should have read the explicit tag, you datty pinks.

52:36Oti: Yeah.

52:37KT: It's not gonna be a reference, but you should watch Sex Education. Yeah. We should cover Sex Education all these days. Gillian Anderson. Mm-mm.

52:43Oti: Alone. Yeah. We need to cover at least one of her shows. She has a lot of amazing things. Her is Marilyn Monroe in American Gods. Yes, please. I'll take another Gillian. Thank you. I was thinking more of The Fall or X-Files. Oh, you're thinking vintage? Yeah. I'm thinking proper Gillian. Understand. Off the shelf. Off the shelf Gillian. Handle with care. Alright. Well. N f b, do not remove for box. Keep

53:09KT: she's not she's not Katya for matcha. She doesn't have detachable genitals.

53:14KT: Oh, that's a Dexter reference. Dexter's Laboratory,

53:18KT: if you didn't get it. Show me your d d's, motherfuckers. Mhmm. Whatever this was, we hope you enjoyed it. Yep. Let's finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference, Oti.

53:30Oti: Yeah. Off. Archie, just a good wife. She's an amazing in it. She's has a lot of more projects out there at the moment. A lot. Yeah. Yeah. So just dive in with some classic Archie.

53:30KT: Nice. I've

53:46KT: already mentioned them throughout the episode, so I'll start off with Master of None. Cutely enough, we do have an episode. A Master of None. And notoriously enough, Master of None is the episode that we've recorded the most three times because we said some juicy tantalizing things about ourselves, but also just culturally in general. So we had to sacrifice a lot of executive producers to the pod gods for that episode. And the second one is Little America. Nice. If you don't have Apple TV, you should definitely consider it.

54:24KT: For Little America alone, but there's also a lot of qualita out there as well. Speaking of qualita, we bring it to you not just on a weekly basis, but also on a daily basis. On Twitter and Instagram, we are @ForYourRefPod. You can write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. And we have Apple Podcasts. If you could be so kind to give us a rating, however you feel is however you feel. And we'll see you guys next week. See you. Goal.