Young, Famous & African – Zari not Zari

Full transcript of Young, Famous & African – Zari not Zari.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, but it is the first we have broken the For Your Reference Matrix, friends and lovers, with Oti loose peel pocket Morpheus in covering a reality show. And by God, it had to be in Africa, didn't it? Mhmm. Let's get on with the show.

0:44KT: Jambo friends and lovers. Welcome

0:47KT: back to the For Your Reference podcast. We're your host, KT.

0:47Oti: And Oti.

0:47KT: Jet set around the world and touch down in Africa for balls, speeches, nonsense. Join our clique as we cover Young, Famous & African this week. There's definitely a lot to cover in this show, which is a sentence that no one really talks about when they talk about reality television. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Well, I guess before we get started Oti, let's just talk about reality television

1:20KT: in general, because again, this is the first and we'll see, I guess if this format works to cover moving forward. I think I'm more of the you know, we talked about political dramas in Total Control, that was more your field. I think reality series are more mine, right?

1:20Oti: Yeah, a 100%.

1:20KT: Like you dip in and out of my 90 Day Fiancé sort of watching, but I'm usually the one that's holding the bastion for 90 Day. And surprisingly, especially with all of the different sort of people in 90 Day Fiancé,

1:53KT: there's not that many, if any Kenyans I can think of.

1:53Oti: No. I remember those one where I saw a clip of a Kenyan there, but I think it's it's very, very few.

1:53KT: Okay. Don't worry friends and lovers. I'm working on my expose at the moment. I'm deep into research just like the detective from South Park. But I think for the most part, I watch the most reality television, The Circle on Netflix since we're talking about Netflix, Married at First Sight got a bit ridiculous because it's not about people trying to find love anymore.

2:26KT: I I like it. And, you know, for for someone that really enjoys Mads Mikkelsen and his grief riding on a bicycle, for someone that really likes sad lonely films, I kind of enjoy the removing of the layer of potential when it comes to reality TV shows. I think that's why I like it so much. How about you, Oti?

2:26Oti: Yeah. Like like you said, I don't dabble in reality TV that much, but when I do, it's either because of some ridiculousness.

2:53Oti: But overall, if it's it has some value or it's just one of those days where you feel like you need to switch off, I don't mind it. It has a space. It definitely has its own people like KT here. So I I I really don't mind.

2:53KT: Well, you're speaking about own people like KT. We've got own people like Oti in this show.

3:15KT: Alright. Well, let's give first impressions to this show. I will definitely confer to you to go first, but I introduced this show only because I was minding my business on Instagram and we follow Diamond and he was talking about the show. All right, Big Man Oti as the residential African man on the podcast, please give us your first impressions and spoiler spoiler spoiler, I don't know, throw some champagne at your friend if you like. But give us your first impressions and how you felt about Young, Famous & African. So

3:51Oti: I had no hopes going into this. And it's it's one of those things that when you're like four, five episodes deep, and I was talking to KT, I was like, should this be our next episode? I love the fact that, you know, when you're talking about Africa, the connotation around it in media or even in TV and movies, you see some really distraught places

4:14Oti: and, you know but this time, you don't get to see that. You don't focus on that. You focus on these five, six people Yeah. That are ridiculously rich and following their shenanigans and their supposed friendship. We love Diamond in this household, and we barely get to see what he's like personality wise. And to see him in this show like that, it was fucking ridiculous. I loved how everyone is unapologetically

4:41Oti: rich in this, and they don't care. They just don't give a fuck. Yeah. And I was in for that. And I was like, okay. Definitely, it's gonna be our next episode just because it's something different. We've been covering a lot of sad shit in the past two, three episodes. I'm like, you know what? Let let's just break from that for a bit. Yeah. Let's let's allow the the luxury

5:02Oti: of joy.

5:02KT: Speaking of, and I guess just to give us context, like the concept of reality television isn't new for African audiences. I remember you would talk a lot about Big Brother. Was it South Africa or Big Brother Africa?

5:02Oti: No. I remember when Big Brother Africa came out and it was so big. It was hugely watched

5:21Oti: And, you know, there was a flavoring. There was a flavoring of, you know what? This is something that possibly could be the next thing to be in Asian African entertainment scenes. And it sort of beat it out. But with this Young, Famous & African show, I was like, okay, this is a completely different concept that we usually see mostly

5:41Oti: in American TVs. But here, you know what? I'm all for it.

5:41KT: Nice. Nice. Let me wrap up my first impressions because there was a lot you mentioned in yours that I wanna pick up on. Of course, I'm the KT Broflovski. So I'm already thinking about themes that I wanna talk about about a fucking reality show, but here we go. So again, I didn't know anything about this show, but I'm always down to try it out. And if I'm always going to try pedestrian

6:10KT: sort of reality TV shows, I'm definitely going to try one that with an African sort of flavor. The initially, all of the men, I would say all of the men made me cringe and I was close to throwing something at the television. Just that how, I wouldn't say misogynistic, but just that how, I guess we can talk about traditional sort of values and how men view women in the proximity of being with a man.

6:38KT: Like that's that's a whole thing. And, you know, we talk about because really, my in to this show was Diamond. And the more he kept talking, the more he kept saying that he was a lion out to hunt women. I'm like, this man needs to stop speaking because I need to be able to dance to his music. He needs to stop. But as the show the show really found its footing as it continued. But in some cases, the production got a bit annoying.

7:09KT: Production in regards to storylines, not the grandiose ness because it looks very rich. But yeah, so initially it kind of bothered me and I do wanna talk about like traditional African sort of views, especially in regards to men. But Diamond really was my into the show. And I think because we've been away from Kenya for like three, four years now, my proximity to understanding celebrity isn't as I guess on the pulse as it was when we were in Kenya. I didn't recognize

7:43KT: a lot of people aside from Diamond, but I guess in saying that, let's get into the the the reality, young, and African meat and potatoes of it all. How did you feel about the men's views in regards to women? Because something that I really appreciated about Khanyi, and she's kind of I have a lot to talk about her in general, but I just wanna focus on the theme. But Khanyi speaks

8:08KT: a lot about being so progressive and even her daughter's like, you're the only person that thinks this way and that is still living in Africa. You know, that she has a lot of like progressive sort of views, but I guess I just wanna generally, you know, focused on the idea location of my rib. Right? I think I'm bastardizing the bible, but I think I did I think I did a bible. But I just I I guess I just wanna hear because you're a very modern progressive man.

8:40KT: So I I wanna know what you thought, Like, were there moments in particular in regards to man is man, woman is woman? Were there moments where you found yourself cringing?

8:40Oti: Oh, yeah. For sure. I think that was driven more by, you're right, Diamond, and sometimes what Naked DJ was saying as well.

8:40KT: Yep.

8:57Oti: And Andile. And Andile. You know, and and the weird fact about Andile is he's pretending to be this progressive dude Yeah. But he's using that to slide in Oh, yes. To get his way into, you know, the flirting in there. You know, his end goal is to sleep with this woman. So he'll pretend to be, oh, I'll be the listener. I'll be the carrier. I'll be the one that spits out sense. He's the he's the Taye Diggs kissing on the forehead. Exactly.

9:26KT: He's he's the male equivalent of I'm not like the other girls.

9:31Oti: Exactly.

9:32KT: Exactly. He is And he's the one with three baby mamas. Yeah. Yeah.

9:38Oti: But I'm sure Naked's got baby mamas as well. Yeah. He probably just doesn't claim them. But back to your question, of course, was. I think with Diamond, he he has this and and I think even when we progressed throughout the show, he peeled it all back. You know, when he was just cheating, he cheated on Zari. I was like, you know what? I love Zari so much, but we were apart. And

10:01Oti: he is not pretending or at least at this time, he was like, yeah, I just need, you know, manhunt woman or whatever. I'm a fucking lion. And then towards the end, he comes or he delves deeper and it's more you can see the sadness. You can see him feeling the shame of, oh, I had a good thing here. But it seems sort of struggling around it.

10:01KT: Yeah. Okay. Well, I guess let's let's focus on Diamond for a little bit because

10:27KT: it got very messy very quickly and I hate to I hate to give a shout out when I'm talking about messy but shout outs to our loves Sunni and Brandi from Book of Lies because they also watch this show as well. So I hope you're listening to this episode, but I'm sorry I mentioned you in the proximity of messiness. But in regards to Diamond, the math was not mathing, but at least he was owning it. He had Zari, they had two kids, she wouldn't go to Tanzania,

10:57KT: that's not enough to slide your dick somewhere else, but he did end up getting someone else pregnant. Right? So there's that as a whole story. However, it did bother me the way that Khanyi and a lot of the women were like, they were so ready to, like, throw venom in his direction. Yeah. Which made no sense because like their friend Andile has already got three baby mamas and they were they seem to be like fine with that situation.

11:22KT: They were so ready to judge him. They were so ready to scorn him when there's so much of this situation that like is outside of Diamond as well. Like, I mean, the fact that it exists, not just African men, like men in general be having babies around the world. Have a baby by me and then you'll be a Starz millionaire.

11:41Oti: Yeah. Especially Annie. Because Annie came out quite hard. I was like, what do you mean you don't know how many children you have? Like, even even even when after he explained the situation and what he meant, he could see the judgment. I'm like, mate, 2Baba has a lot of kids out there. Don't don't don't be the judge. Don't be the fucking judge when you're there with your husband

12:06Oti: trying to be the beacon of fucking hope and truth. That doesn't work.

12:06KT: Yeah. I don't know. And then this is where we kind of break like the reality TV matrix. Annie fucking frustrated me. Like she she really really frustrated me and she knew that people felt sorry for her. Like especially Khanyi, like really felt sorry for her. And this is what really frustrated me because, and then I guess you can also shed light as well. But for me in the 2020s or I guess in the 2010s or even in the 2000s,

12:39KT: like, I don't know, I think it's high time to kick a man to the road. Like if you

12:44KT: because it was very clear, it was made very apparent to everyone, even though this is a fucking reality TV show. It was made very clear that Annie hasn't done the work to heal from this shit.

12:44Oti: No, she hasn't.

12:44KT: But also at the same time when she was sharing her first child with 2Face was not his first child, it was his fifth child. Yep. So no one's even asking you to heal from that because that is a lot of fucking shit to take on. Right? Yeah. You are his fucking day one and your first kid with him is his fifth. Yeah. That tells you everything. Like no one's saying that you need to heal and forgive him but you are fucking there so you need to forgive him or shut the fuck up because I think part of the problem is you can't tell someone

13:29KT: anything

13:29KT: if they're not ready to heal from whatever it is.

13:29Oti: And you could tell it it bothered her because she was quite open. She was quite quick to open about it. Yeah. You know, with Andile,

13:40Oti: they'd pretty much met five minutes and already starting to spill that shit. Yeah. You know, and when Khanyi joined, she continued on. You know, it's like Khanyi, to that point, she was like, oh, this is weird. Yeah. Because it is. You don't expect someone to tell you about their marital problems and how it makes them feel or how broken down it is within five minutes of meeting them. Yeah. But anyway, with Annie, she wanted to be the center of attention. Yeah. And she wanted to be her own woman outside of 2Face. Yeah. And the problem is she used 2Face's name and identity as as the stick. Like, oh,

14:15Oti: 2Baba is coming. 2Baba is calling. Oh, look at 2Baba. And she got excited like a kid. I'm like, what? It's embarrassing. She's a grown woman. Me, it's embarrassing. I get excited when you call me, but Jesus fucking Christ, there's a line.

14:15KT: No. But like like, I think the okay, let me clarify.

14:32KT: The reason why I said it was embarrassing is because she's going around here projecting onto other people, calling Khanyi a bad mother, a terrible mother, talking openly, like you said about how her marriage isn't great, but then she's acting like a school girl the moment he calls. That's disgusting. That's what I mean by being disgusting.

14:32Oti: Yeah. I'm with you there. Like,

14:53Oti: a lot of the things about the show that I would take away is hypocritical. Even, you know, other stars, I saw people like Khanyi, Andile, even Nadia to some extent were quite decent Yeah. Until the warrant. Yeah. And it all turned into this hypocritical, oh, I'm gonna judge you because of ABC,

15:13Oti: but, mate, been doing the same thing throughout the whole show. Yeah. It's just because they weren't part of the cool group. Yeah. And it felt it felt almost like, okay, the tables are quite turned because at the start, the people that I didn't really want to, people like Naked DJ or or even even Zari. Zari wasn't an issue. She was just there but Yeah. She got introduced as an outsider and sort of stayed in that space until she wasn't and she was a focus of attention. Yeah. But it was wild how the script just flipped.

15:13KT: Yeah. Absolutely. I absolutely agree. But you haven't.

15:43KT: I've tried to sixty minute you, but you haven't answered the question. What do you think like a woman like Annie in the '20 So maybe fine, it's been ten years since then, but in the 2020s, can see she hasn't dealt with this fucking pain. What do you think about like, I I understand that it's a different context because we're in, you know, Nigeria slash Africa,

16:05KT: but what are your thoughts on her?

16:05Oti: She should have left 2Face ages ago. I'm just saying. You. Needed

16:12Oti: to be supported in this. Sometimes,

16:14Oti: you know, we say you can forgive, you know what, you don't know people's relationships, but she's clearly hurt by it. Yeah. Even to be as open as she is at the table when the kids had when the kids had come to South Africa Yeah. And she was at the table with all her friends and she's like, don't cheat on me again. I'm like, wait, what? And she said it as a joke and she stared at him to make that promise while the kids are there. And you could see 2Face's face. He was like, okay.

16:41Oti: We're trying to have fun here. Yeah. Like, if you're with him, fucking be with him and forget that shit because at the end of the day, you keep on bringing the fact that he cheated, it's not him feeling like, oh, now I need to slow it down because it won't. It'd probably just irritate him even more because why are we with him? Just fucking walk out.

16:41KT: Yeah. And this is and even when we're watching the the renewal of the vows just made me roll my eyes, you know. Marriage, children, do whatever the fuck you want but let's also acknowledge that sometimes it's band aid instead of cement. Right?

17:14KT: And then you were like you were like, oh, you know, she this really means a lot to her and I'm like, yeah. But the problem is she thinks that this is going to stop the babies happening. Like, she thinks the cheating is going to happen. Like, that's the illusion. He wrote a song for me. It doesn't mean he's gonna go slide it in somewhere else.

17:14Oti: And and that's the thing. Right? Because it takes so little effort from 2Baba's side Yeah. To

17:39Oti: make Annie forget and be like a schoolgirl all over again. She's allowing herself to be swept away by him. Yeah. The thing is when the first thing we meet because when you first met Annie, the first thing she said, I'm not just 2Face's wife, you know. I'm I'm more than that. And you're like, okay. That came out of nowhere.

17:58KT: Why would you say that? And she spent the whole show making it clear that she was his wife. Exactly.

18:04Oti: Exactly. And that's the issue. Right? If you wanna be if you wanna break free and be independent, you do that, girl. Just you don't have to stay there in that marriage. Out of how many cheatings man, five kids. It's not that he was just one shot one shot with those five ladies. However many ladies there were.

18:23KT: Africa has more than one queen. Right? Well, let's let's talk about other queens. Let's talk about Khanyi in the proximity of Annie. I think we've talked enough about Annie and 2Face. So let's carry on. But I wanna focus on the fact that Annie called Khanyi a bad mother. And the reason why I wanna talk about this because again, it brings up the theme of traditional African sort of ideals and a part of the culture and how I guess you can say Western culture clashes, right? So

18:58Oti: I guess the crux of the scenario was or is that Khanyi has a 15 year old daughter and Annie had a problem that they weren't living under the same roof. Yeah. She was quite hard on that line as well. Like she couldn't get over the fact that Khanyi had her ideas on how to raise her own kid based off her own experiences.

19:18Oti: Yeah. You know, she said that I'm doing what I feel is right for my kid and now, you know, the things that I wanted to be done for me as as as a kid as well when she was growing up. And fair enough. Who are you to tell someone that's the wrong way to raise your child? Yeah. It's none of your fucking business.

19:36KT: Because nowhere actually nowhere in this show do people say you should leave 2Face. No one gave advice on her marriage and her as a mother, but she was so ready to give advice that no one was asking for and I think that's part of that's part of the problem with culture and that's part of the problem with religion. These people can't let other people be. Like, anyone that strays outside and colors outside of the lines,

20:01KT: the the justification is that's how it's supposed to be. Therefore, I can openly judge you and call you a bad mother. Mhmm. But I thought it was interesting and it really gave me a full impression of Annie in the sense that she just can't let people be. Even if it's something that would make people happy like it always needs to Even when she was like talking to Zari, it wasn't until Zari started focusing on her life that she wanted to talk to her. It's embarrassing and it's miserable and it's disgusting.

20:33KT: But what are your thoughts on letting how would you feel if your parents let you live in a different house at 15?

20:33Oti: I'd be the happiest kid, mate.

20:33KT: But also like if we're talking about just general sort of attitudes, Naked, I think it was Naked that used the excuse of, oh, it's probably because she doesn't wanna introduce to all the men she's sleeping with. And it's like, fuck man, you were so close. You

20:59KT: were so close. Whether that's the truth or not, it doesn't fucking matter. You know what I mean? Like, however and like you said, however people choose to parent their children is no one's fucking business. Yeah. Like just because you have a kid doesn't mean you can tell other people how to like look after their kids. Exactly.

21:16KT: At this juncture, before we get into more of the messiness, I kind of just wanna have a real sort of theme right now. You mentioned in the first impressions and I'm glad that there is a different sort of, you know, a different lens at least of Africa that it's not just the way that everyone's seen. I am glad that we have that. But watching all of the extravagance, knowing that there's a lot of people that are struggling made me a bit uncomfortable.

21:44KT: But also at the same time places like America have people that are in poverty as well so I had to like mentally check myself

21:53KT: because it shouldn't be any different to other places that have rich people like they're allowed to have joy And I just wanted to get your thoughts on that.

21:53Oti: No. I'm with you. We're living in a capitalistic world, mate. Yeah. You're always gonna have that discrepancy. We are with everywhere in the world. There are people struggling in America, Britain. Wherever you are, there are fucking people struggling. The degrees might be different, but there's still some struggles, mate.

22:18Oti: I see no difference with this. I didn't feel a way about it. Let them get their own, for fuck's sakes. If they're rich, they're rich. Who are we to curtail that because you think the rest of the continent is is struggling and whatever. Because at the end of the day, that's how the fucking world is. And I don't think it's gonna change

22:36Oti: unless capitalism ends, and I don't think that's ever gonna happen. So it is what it is. Like, let people have their joy. They as as Jesus said, let Caesars be Caesars.

22:36KT: Wow. It is what it is. It is absolutely what it is. It reminds me of obviously

22:52KT: totally very different, but Michaela Coel's I May Destroy You. And they had a whole discussion about deforestation and climate change and how there's so many issues right now. The green sort of initiative is kind of being used as a marketing ploy. But anyway, I guess just going back to this theme, there are a lot of like thriving young black people in I May Destroy You talking about why did everyone get to drive their Mercedes but we can't now because it's not environmentally friendly.

23:24Oti: How fancy, you wanna tell them right when they might bring that money.

23:30KT: And I I no. But it's I I personally had to check myself. So I just wanted to be very honest and very vulnerable because I'm like, why are they out here partying and people are struggling? But it's like people are struggling everywhere. Why can't they have their sense of luxury as well? Yep. Otherwise, no one would be allowed to fucking leave at all.

23:30Oti: True. Very true. Very true.

23:49KT: Who do you wanna move on to?

23:49Oti: Let's start with the least contentious character in Andile.

23:49KT: Least contentious?

23:57KT: I I think this goes back to like the mean girls, like the bitchy in a circle sort of thing because he had three baby mamas as as far as we know from the show. But they didn't mention that until very later because I guess that would have made them hypocritical when they were talking about Diamond. Like that wasn't introduced as the first part of the show. He's annoying. He's annoying to me because like as a woman and you see it in the show,

24:21KT: like whenever you're trying to like pick up the pieces of of a night out or you know some man's harassing you and you're trying to just like chill. He's that motherfucker that will slide his dick in the shadows. It's like we don't want you either. If you're going to be like rubbing up on us, we don't want you either.

24:21Oti: No. He'll he'll come in smooth. He'll be like, hey, dude. Buck off from her. And then he'll be like, oh, some man. Hey, am I right? Am I right?

24:47Oti: That would be his way to slide in. Like, Andile is a fucking problem. Yeah. He he pretends to have this, oh, I care. I listen. But no. He really doesn't. He listens until it's over. Yep.

25:01KT: Why did you say least contentious? He's so frustrating.

25:04Oti: Compared to the rest of the gang? I guess. I guess so. Because we we barely got to see him, you know. His focus was more on him pursuing Zari and how that was like. It it wasn't it didn't get ridiculous up until the last episode Yeah. Where he went out of his way to go to Zari's house and Diamond was there. Yeah. I'm like, okay, dude.

25:28Oti: Who fucking drops by at someone's house late at night just because Taye Diggs? Taye Diggs would yeah. And people would let him though, you know. But Andile isn't Taye Diggs. So so let's let's let's rewind that back a bit, you know. He he just he feels entitled to some degree. Yes. There could be something with Zari there, but that was just wrong. No. I'm sorry. Like, millions millions of people in Joburg and you find Zari as the one you wanna be with? No. Sorry. People love messiness.

26:03KT: They do. And we love to watch the messiness apparently.

26:03Oti: Yeah. That's why you get stories about people

26:09Oti: getting in with other people's sisters and shit because close proximity, mate. No one wants to look beyond their fucking horizon. I'm watching you.

26:19KT: Who's trying to take Diggsit now?

26:23Oti: But it is. It's true. You know? Why would, like, Andile be bothered to go outside of his circles when he spends most of the time with his people?

26:23KT: I think you've reached your final African form.

26:23Oti: I am an African man at the end of the day.

26:44KT: Andile really liked his shoes. He loved his shoe metaphors. He did. He did. Like he, when he was talking about his dad, he was talking about the shoes and I don't know, like I feel like friends and lovers, we all have that one sibling even in the course of like a funeral, just saying stuff like that, oh, you know, there's a really big shoes to fill, but I'm ready to wear them. Mate, can we grieve? Like,

27:10KT: can we just have our moment?

27:10Oti: Yeah. And, you know, it's not even one of the best metaphors we had in the show. I think the best one was from Diamond with the chewing gum and the grape.

27:22KT: Yeah. I did not understand that. I did initially,

27:25Oti: I didn't get it until you explained it to me and I hate how much sense it made. It makes perfect sense. Why would you throw your chewing gum that will sustain you for longer when you get a single grape? Wow. Facts.

27:41KT: Is it? How factual is it, sir?

27:41Oti: 100%.

27:41KT: Oh, man. This is the spicy way of speaking. Was it fun to hear Diamond in particular weave in and out of Swahili?

27:58Oti: It was because the thing that I've realized being here like, my Swahili would leak when speaking to just random people. Uh-huh. I just burst into a moment where I speak Swahili, and then I realized I'm like, oh, shit. Because people just stare and they're like, okay. And it doesn't really happen with white people, it happens with more ethnic people.

28:21KT: Uh-huh. So because the white people probably expect you to do that.

28:21Oti: No. I think it's more or or ethnic sort of people,

28:28Oti: it's more, oh, they speak other languages and I feel like I'm I have a layer dropped and my Swahili just starts flowing out. It's wild.

28:28KT: That's wild. No. I thought you meant like the reaction to it.

28:28Oti: No. Not the reaction, more when it triggers.

28:28KT: Where it happens. Yeah. Interesting.

28:45KT: Interesting. But that's that's just Oti, you know. Every so often I'll be sitting and minding my business and he'll throw me a bilingual burn. Who else do you wanna talk about?

28:45Oti: Let's talk about Naked.

28:58Oti: Naked was really red flags for me at the start of the show and then I hate how much I grew to love him. Like, it's annoying. Yeah. He said some problematic stuff at the start but towards the end, he was the only one that said anything that made sense that brought any sort of realism to this group. Yep. And he called every bullshit the way it is without mincing his words.

28:58KT: Can I ask a potentially

29:23KT: we don't need to get too deep, but it is a deep question? Because you're saying what he was saying was problematic, but it is just frozen in time. You see what I'm saying? There was nothing wrong with what he was saying for twenty, thirty years ago. So does that make it problematic or does it just make it frozen in time? Because even his attitudes towards cheating and stuff was very casual. Yeah.

29:45KT: It was very casual. But does that make it problematic? Because it was it was pretty much okay. Everyone everyone has a secret brother or sister somewhere.

29:55Oti: Yeah. You only find them we only find about them in funerals and weddings and shit. Yeah. True. Like, granted the perception he holds has been the norm for years. So do I expect him to be different now? Yeah. Do I judge him for the way he is? No.

30:18Oti: But at least he had some redeeming qualities at the end of it. He he really did flip. He did a script flip, and we got to see someone who pulled Khanyi on her bullshit. Yeah. Yeah. And she really did need checking. Yeah. What are your thoughts on his relationship with with Kayleigh? Kayleigh? Wow.

30:36KT: I think he's just he's he's like a cat that's sick of playing with a mouse. I think he's just sick of it. Yeah. And

30:42Oti: to that point, I'm like, why don't they just break up? Yeah. Maybe it's just for the show. Maybe they'll break up. Maybe maybe it is. Because a, he doesn't want Kayleigh hanging around all the time and he wants three days or two to three days just alone without hearing at all from Kayleigh. I'm like, if you need two, three days break from your partner every week, mate, there's a there's a issue there. And from Kayleigh's perspective,

31:10Oti: she loves Naked and she wants to be around him all the time.

31:10KT: Yeah. Oh, now see, I'm getting flashbacks now when he was making comments where he was saying that she was always dressed like she's a footballer,

31:21Oti: like she's not dressed sexy. Yeah. She he's coming home and he feels like he's he's he's going to bed with Ronaldo Messi.

31:30KT: You need he needs to unpack that sentence. But He does. Yeah. It was comments like that that were really pissing me off. But what was really annoying was he acknowledged that he didn't wanna be around her all the time or anymore, but he also got offended that she wasn't sure whether she wanted to get married, not just to him, but married at all. Yeah. He got offended about that and he even revealed that he wanted

31:51Oti: he he was turned on by fishnets and he wanted fishnets. And Kayleigh did that for him Mhmm. Only for him to go into, you know, to get in bed and fall asleep immediately.

32:01Oti: Yeah. And not even put that effort. Like, seriously, there's there's a disconnect between that relationship. I'm glad that he was open to continue going to therapy though. Yeah. You know, that's progressive as shit. So good for him. Yep. And hopefully, they'll tangle up whatever they'll untangle up whatever this nonsense is and get to the root cause of why he wants to feel distant because he's been married before. He's, I think, divorced twice. Yeah. So maybe he's a bit apprehensive jumping back on both, but he

32:01KT: I should be clear about

32:31KT: don't think he's that deep. I don't think he's a one woman man.

32:31Oti: You just think he just wants his options.

32:31KT: I think there are a lot of people that aren't one person, Pete.

32:31Oti: True. True.

32:31KT: And I get like, I don't I don't get why they would continue to be in a relationship but I would say that's none of my business but you put it on the fucking camera so it becomes my business. Thank you very much.

32:51KT: Who do you wanna go to next? Nadia. She's a bit of a nothing to be and she's annoying. I don't like people that get influenced by their friends,

33:00KT: it's just it's messy, it's disgusting and she's like, oh she was saying to Khanyi, why didn't you choose violence? And then she said to Zari, oh, you just wanna choose violence. And it's like, fuck off then.

33:00Oti: True. Like, she holds no thoughts of her own. Yeah. Everything is fed to her and whatever is fed to her, that's the gospel fucking truth. Yep. And she portrays that she magnifies that energy

33:23Oti: to x. Yeah. I was like, me, hey, you've not been around Zari at all during all these issues. You've not had a single thing. Khanyi would come to you, say some shit. Annie would come to you and say some shit, and you'd believe them over everything else. Yeah. Others started didn't like Annie, and now Annie's your fucking best friend Yeah. Out of nowhere Yeah. Just because Khanyi accepted Annie. Yeah. And now apparently, because Zari and Zari and Khanyi were already friends before, but now Ali is Khanyi's best friend. Yeah. Oh my god. The hypocrisy in this show is wild,

33:57Oti: you know.

33:57KT: Speaking of hypocrisy, it was very annoying when she was like, oh, know, I got a man and then why are you still in the room with Diamond then? I understand why she's still in the room with Diamond but still like it's annoying and even it's that the residue of misogynistic shit that Diamond was saying was proven right by her actions

34:19KT: because he's like, oh, you know, she says she got a boyfriend but she's still here. You know what I mean? And it's like, well, he's not wrong, is he?

34:19Oti: It proved he wasn't. Diamond said it flatly like, if if I tell a woman whatever, I like them or whatever and they say they have a boyfriend and still continue lingering, Then Okay. That tells him there's still a chance. He still has a shot. Yeah. And it was proved right because when when Nadia went to Mexico to meet Vic and she came back and they'd broken up or whatever, we don't get to see Diamond for a couple of episodes. And then she starts complaining

34:50Oti: that those nothing but radio silence from Diamond and throughout this period, I'm like, what did you expect? Yeah. What did you want from him? Yeah.

34:50KT: But just don't look at our podcast DMs. If you see any DMs to Diamond, just ignore it Oti.

35:10KT: I just like it in a different format at another time, I will always be here pulling women to account because you know how much easier it would be for the like for I'm talking to the straights, like you know how annoying and how much easier life would be if men could just continue to be players, Big Pun players, and women will allow themselves to be players too. What's up with this pretentiousness?

35:36KT: You know you wanna fuck around. And I think Khanyi was saying she can have a boyfriend in America and a boyfriend in Africa. Why the fuck not? Why not? In liberation is also accountability for your playerdom. That's exactly it. You wanna fuck around find out, do that. Yeah, no one's stopping you. I don't know, I don't think she's lived a full life. And then like they try to

35:57KT: not to say they tried to because it's her story and it's her pain, but it was only tacked on at the end with your Taye Diggs Andile when she was talking about her pain of never really having a father figure and she sees men as disposable. Lead with that shit. Because that does that mean you just be messy and then at the end we're supposed to think you're a full person now? Yeah, maybe so. It it felt very

36:18Oti: stitched in. I'm like, okay, cool. That came out of nowhere, but okay. We we we hear you. Yeah. But it still doesn't explain a lot of the other mess that you're making when it comes to Zari. She has no reason. Like, she didn't even accept Zari's invite because she doesn't really like her, and that's She

36:37Oti: felt a way when Zari first got introduced into the show when she came for Diamond's party. Mhmm. And she felt a way and she made faces throughout because, a, she was no longer the center of attention for Diamond and Diamond behaved a different completely different way from when Zari is around. Yeah. And that actor. Mhmm. So from then on, oh, I don't like Zari. I think she just chooses violence.

37:01KT: But based on what? Jealousy? It's just it's just nonsense. It's just ridiculous and it's nonsense, but we were here for it. We were absolutely here for it. You wanna talk about Swanky? I thought I'd like Swanky. He was good at the start because what I really appreciated and I gave kudos to was the fact that like Annie is ridiculous and she's in her own little bubble. She doesn't wanna be grounded by reality. She wants to live in a fantasy world. Anyone else,

37:30KT: know, is going to be a problem if they try to insert reality into Annie's life. But what I really appreciated about Swanky when he was first introduced to the show was that he would pull her up on shit. And he stopped doing that. Then he started feeding into like the way Nadia would do it as well. Yeah. He started feeding into Annie's bullshit. He knows Annie.

37:49Oti: Apparently, they're best friends forever. Yep. Cool. Then you know her real good. Yeah. And you called her bullshit at the start, and then let her continue with the bullshit going forward. It didn't make sense at all. And then it gets because I also love the fact that he kept he felt a bit, you know, outside of all this nonsense. I'm just gonna be the one speaking the truth in this. And then he got into the he got into the drama at the end, especially at the train when he started shouting and I'm

38:16Oti: like, I let when Naked was pulling him up on it and Naked started shouting because we can all shout, but being an adult means you

38:25Oti: speak properly.

38:25KT: I'm like, yes, Call him out. Yeah. He was acting like a child. But it made no sense. Like, who are you shouting at? I don't even know. I don't know at all. I think I think we're aware that, you know, there is a certain level to like producing storylines. I would want to believe that Swanky is a cool enough person that this was a faction a manufactured sort of storyline. I would hope so.

38:25Oti: No. I take everything in this show with a grain of salt.

38:54Oti: We know a lot of shit of this shit is scripted. But scripted or not, it's what we are seeing. True. So we need to be able to to criticize regardless of whatever it is, you know, if behind the scenes Swanky is the best sort of person, we don't know that. We only see what's presented. True. So with that, I'm like, you knowing Zari, you're knowing Annie, you're knowing the whole situation that. And of course, maybe, you know, there's all this nationality

39:22Oti: bonding as well. You can't all be here on national TV going against your nation, you know. It's typical fucking Big Brother, you know. It's it's in Big Brother Africa, you'd get people with the closest proximity to each other country wise being the closest because you can't stray too far. Alright. So with with Swanky, I felt like he felt he had this onus

39:44Oti: whether Annie was right or wrong that he had to stand by Annie.

39:44KT: I see what you're saying. Like, I absolutely see what you're saying. Like, I would not expect in for a single minute for Damo to say anything bad about Zari. Not because, yeah, there's the whole aspect of Zari being the mother of his two kids. There's also the East Africa connection. I just don't feel that that would happen at all despite Nadia's best efforts to try and turn everyone away from Zari. Well, guess this is the million dollar question, Oti. What if Annie was Kenyan? Would you be saying the things that you're saying here?

39:44Oti: Probably, I would, but to a lesser degree.

40:21KT: Well, it's good to know yourself. It's good to be honest. That's that's very good and very commendable to hear. But this show ended on a very big cliff hanger. We already talked about it of Andile with his whole chest, which I kind of respect to a certain degree. He didn't like, back out and say, no, I'm here to see you as my friend. No, it's like, yeah, I'm here to scoop up, you know, the mother of your children.

40:46Oti: Yeah. I get that. At the end of the day, I don't feel like it should be a problem though. You know, Dabba didn't leave things with Zari that well. So he cheated on her essentially,

40:57Oti: having a kid outside.

40:57KT: No. Not essentially, literally.

41:05Oti: My East African tax is showing. He should not have a problem because they're no longer together. Everything else is fucking fair game. I hate this nonsense of bro code. It means shit all.

41:05KT: Yeah. No. We we know. We know it's a myth because we see Andile

41:19KT: acting the way however way he wants to act, that's exactly the way he's acting. But yeah, I enjoyed the show as much as I could with suspending the fact that these people might not actually be this way. I just like that there was offering from Africa in regards to reality television that is easily consumable, even though Netflix is getting more and more expensive. But it's on a platform that most people already have. And it was done, like you said, in an unapologetic luxe sort of way. All right, well, let's talk about Khanyi.

41:58KT: I had a lot of hope for her. I always find myself like resonating with characters that are like misunderstood that speak with their whole chest, but they get misunderstood. So I definitely found some kinship with Khanyi and she just disappointed me as time went on. It's understandable especially when you're talking about earlier

42:21KT: with Annie like but what I hate is the same way that Andile plays that good guy act like Annie is playing that long suffering wife act. Right? And she loves that people feel sorry for her and she can also get love from 2Face at the same time. Yep. She is Mrs 2Face, is she not? She is. So as far as I understood, as soon as Khanyi realized that Annie needed to be protected,

42:47KT: everyone else that could come to her as a threat became her threat. Yeah. And I think the most ridiculous thing about Khanyi's

42:55Oti: Khanyi in this situation was on the train when Zari is making a speech and then she gets upset because Zari is saying that this is our invite because it fucking is. Yeah. What did you want her to say? Our oh, thank you for accepting our invite. What the fuck? Yeah. She had a party and had seven fucking speeches. But that's what Naked said. Yeah. Yeah. And then she said it's different. Why? Because it's on a bloody train? Yeah. Oh, she could get in the bloody bin. She she just hypocritical

43:25Oti: as fuck. I thought I'd vibe with her with her whole, you know, I'm gonna be progressive.

43:29KT: I'm not gonna let nonsense. I'm gonna be the motherfucker in this. Yeah. And then she turned into some bitchy person that I don't know. The whole situation around the train and the inn, it was such a little nonstarter thing as well Yeah. For for her to get triggered that much. But it's believable that someone could act that way. Like, we can say it's fabricated, but it's believable that some because I think a lot of it is that Khanyi saw herself as the queen bee. The only person that says there's no hierarchy is the one that's at the top. Yep.

43:59KT: We're all friends here, pal. And it's like, no, there's obviously a hierarchy and I guess that's what I really appreciated about Zari because she called her out. She's like you're threatened by me. Exactly and that's just the truth. Yeah. She pretends that oh,

44:13KT: even at the start of the first episode, she made it out to be like she was the mother hen, she was the top. Yeah. And then now there's no hierarchy and there's nothing because Zari is in the picture, she can piss right off. Yeah. She can get in the bin. And then they made such a big thing about like, oh, because that's what Khanyi was saying. Like when I had a problem with Annie, I went to her house. When I had a problem with blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And Zari just entered the group. What's her obligation to, first of all, resolve the Annie thing. It was only because every time Annie saw Zari, she kept bringing it up. How do you know my husband? How do you know my husband? How about you ask the husband? He's the one that has all the kids. Like And I didn't see a problem with Zari calling 2Baba and being like, hey. Yeah. Your wife's asking how I know you. And having the wife there as well, like, what the fuck? You wanted to know how we met? Hear it from your husband. And then he was making a joke like, oh, let's pretend. Yeah. Your husband doesn't fucking love you. I'm just saying it. I'm just saying it, mate. But it doesn't matter. No. But it doesn't matter because all the signs are there, she just wants to bury her head in the sand, it doesn't matter, it's not a lack of information

45:15KT: that she's still carrying on this way. Yeah. Because love isn't a science that's made very clear with Annie. Mhmm. I don't know what the fuck is going on but that's fucking disgusting. Khanyi yeah. I know. I I was really gunning for her and now I'm just like like you said, she can go in the bin. Yeah. Even Kudzai who was barely in it was like,

45:34Oti: Zari's done nothing wrong.

45:36KT: That's why it got cut When

45:38Oti: when your boyfriend who is barely in the show, who doesn't say much Yeah. And the one thing he says and agrees with is with Naked and it's like, yeah, this is all bullshit. Then, yeah, you're on the wrong side. Oh, absolutely.

45:51KT: You wanna finish off for Zari? Yeah. Boss lady,

45:54Oti: I think she was my favorite in this. Yeah. Same. Just because she didn't pretend. She was unapologetically

46:03Oti: her. Yeah. And even if it's ruffled feathers with the rest of the group, at least she don't she didn't change the tune. When she wasn't invited, they thought that they should still go to a part to their party. Like, why would she? Yeah. And that's why if that was fucking Annie, I feel like Annie would have gone. And then I I don't know. Like, Zari is the best thing about this just because she doesn't fucking pretend. Yeah. And she doesn't care because no one of those people make her money, bring anything outside of value.

46:31Oti: So if they wanna cut her out, that'd be it.

46:31KT: I love when she

46:35KT: had that little exchange of Annie and Annie was getting so mad she walked off and Zari's like, fuck you and your silly marriage. Because it is a silly marriage. Yeah. And it's it's only because she wasn't a part of the inner circle from day one. She became a threat. Yeah. Yeah. And to me for that for Nadia or whoever else they think that,

46:59Oti: oh, we're gonna kick Zari out and just hang out with Diamond. That's solely mistaken Because Zari will continue to be part of that show or part of the group until Diamond isn't. Yeah. So let's see how that goes. Let's see how that goes. I'm I'm I'm curious to see. And so from a popularity thing, Diamond is the only one that fucking holds bank to anyone on that show. So

47:20KT: let's see. I don't know. As far as I'm concerned, there is no show if there is no Diamond. Mhmm. You want me to sit around watching Nadia? Fuck you. I'm not. You can retract your claws, friends and lovers, but thank you for joining us on our first iteration of a reality show on the For Your Reference podcast, who would have known Oti? Mhmm. We usually stay in the realm of fiction. I think the only other time we've done a docu series is Leaving Neverland. Yeah. And we all know how that went.

47:54KT: Oh, let's finish off in a segment. We call For Your Reference,

47:57KT: Oti.

47:57Oti: If you wanna delve into some more African goodness, watch Rafiki. We covered it. We did cover it here. So I'd recommend.

47:57KT: Yeah. As a part of pride month. I

48:08KT: will stay on the vein of reality TV shows, and I would recommend 90 Day Fiancé. Swallow it.

48:18Oti: I'm putting your boob all there.

48:21KT: Of all of the men yet to come for my brown men?

48:26Oti: Oh, is there no tax?

48:30KT: If you would like to do an audit on Oti's East African tax, I'm on Twitter and Instagram. We're @ForYourRefPod. Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also on Oti reaches African final form podcast if you like to leave a rating and review. And we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.