You – Candace urge go away?

Full transcript of You – Candace urge go away?.

0:00KT: Good day. How are you going? Welcome back. We are starting off with Quid Pro Mo, and this is from our very learned, very streamy friends, Dan and Caleb from the Netflix 'N Swill podcast. I rely on them weekly for entertainment and all things Netflix. So strong recommendations all around in the For Your Reference household. Be sure to check them out. Take the promo away.

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2:04KT: The most consensual of greetings, friends and lovers. Welcome back to For Your Reference. You've got yours, KT.

2:04Oti: And Oti.

2:04KT: And close your curtains and put down that book because this week, we are diving into the Netflix well, I guess, you know, there's addiction. It can be a Netflix if you want. Psychological thriller, You. Oh. Not the psychological thriller that I've written about Oti. That is still in the works. But,

2:33KT: yes, we are covering this show today. Welcome to our podcast. If this is your first time, you are super nasty, and we fucking love you. And if you've listened to our podcast before, thank you. The pleasure is free gratis, as we say in daddy wood. But this is to say spoilers, spoilers, spoilers. We are going to get into spoilers. Currently, at the moment, there are two seasons, 20 episodes. We are going to talk about all of it. So if you haven't watched the series,

3:04KT: well, you'll start to hear I didn't really care for it. So if you just wanna spend some time with KT and Oti I'd say watch it.

3:04Oti: I'd highly recommend you watch it.

3:04KT: How dare you speak out of turn. Let me take a note down in my psychological thriller. But yes. So let's dive in to the stats. As we already know, it was for international release on Netflix, but it originally premiered in America on Lifetime.

3:29KT: And that actually makes so much sense. And I'm pretty sure, Oti, verbatim, I said while we were watching this show, it felt like a Lifetime sort of show. But not to knock Lifetime, but they gave us an incredible series in Unreal. Oh, we fucking love Unreal. Unreal is fucking awesome. And this might this linear timeline might be nonlinear, so we're definitely going to cover Unreal. Not sure if we're gonna do it before this, but we'll

3:29Oti: Probably not, but yeah.

3:29KT: I'll just spill some seed for Oti in the future and he'll find out.

3:59KT: Check out our Predestination episode. But yes, Lifetime, That's all you know, everyone has their champions. Right? You had Handmaid's Tale for Amazon. Everyone has their champions. And I guess, you know, Unreal was one of them. I would not say I do not care to say that You was associated in the same ilk of Unreal. But again, this is not a death battle of Unreal versus You.

4:28Oti: Of course, Unreal wins hands down because it was just something completely unique at this point. There was no pretension. Exactly.

4:34KT: And speaking of pretension, let's get back to the show. So based on both books, actually, the first season was based on the same book named You, and then the second season was based on the following sequel called Hidden Bodies written by Caroline Kepnes. To put onto screen, we have Greg Berlanti and also Sera Gamble. Just a handful of the cast, we have Penn Badgley. That's a pretty cool name. It is a cool name. He doesn't seem cool enough to carry it off.

5:06Oti: She was cool enough in Gossip Girl, mate. Again. And the fact that I'm the one saying this.

5:12KT: You are strong and comfortable.

5:12Oti: Comfortable. I I am am strong strong and and comfortable.

5:12KT: Comfortable. Fucking Gossip Girl was a thing, Black fan. Let's put it this way. You can't blame me because I fucking hate those shows.

5:12Oti: Well, I had sisters, so, you know, I don't know what your excuse is.

5:12KT: And when your sisters aren't around, are you putting a wig on and pretending?

5:12Oti: Yeah. How did you know?

5:12KT: Because that's Gossip Girl. That's that's what I understand. I'm working on my screenplay. We also have Ambyr Childers, Elizabeth Lail, and while we're talking about your

5:41KT: whatever shows you wanna call it, you have your Shay Mitchell. Yep. She was in one of your shows as well. Pretty Little Liars.

5:41Oti: Not one of my shows. I think I dabbled in it a few episodes of the past season.

5:41KT: We're going to have a a branch off we're gonna have a branch off podcast called Oti's Nook. So if you wanna be gossip girling and pretty little lying

5:41Oti: I give everything a shot, mate.

5:41KT: You need to be choosy. And this show is foreboding

6:10KT: to say the least. But before we get into our impressions, I think it might be fun just to, you know, sometimes we choose when to very discernibly lay out our foundational qualms. I guess the only thing to say in regards to our foundational qualms is Oti watches those shows so that's But just to say that we haven't gone past like the trivia of IMDb. Yeah, so we haven't read the books. We haven't read the book

6:42KT: but yeah, so if you're pulling your glasses up to send us an angry email about all of the details we forgot, need not.

6:50Oti: Yeah. Well, just referencing whatever it is we watched on the show.

6:55KT: Exactly. So let's get into first impressions. This is a relatively new show. So let's get into it, Oti. Did you have much of a desire were you I think the best question is, were you waiting for me to bring up to watch this show? Like, you been have you been waiting, spilling your seed to our home devices to allow us to watch this?

7:17Oti: Not really. When the first season dropped, I don't think it really intrigued me. It just felt like it would be something similar to Gossip Girl, at least that's what I imagined from the poster.

7:17KT: Hence, it should intrigue you.

7:17Oti: But, no, it really didn't intrigue me up until I think the second season finished and there was a lot of talk about it being really amazing.

7:42KT: I don't think it's like critically acclaimed. No it's not. But I think people just like the the normal watcher likes it. Yeah. Yeah.

7:52Oti: And I was dabble in both worlds. You know what? Let's give it a go. It could be any worse than whatever it is we're watching at the moment. But truth be told, we did have a lot of time on our hands.

7:52KT: Yes. We did.

8:06KT: We this will be released when it gets released but we watched this over the Christmas New Year break and we had three weeks off. Yep. First time in a long time. Yes, indeedy. Praise robot Jesus. So to be perfectly honest, if we didn't have that much time and we only had a precious amount of time, I probably wouldn't have brought up watching this show. Yeah. But continue your first impression.

8:06Oti: The fact that we watched the first season and we managed to breeze through the first five episodes of the show

8:40Oti: at least told me in my mind that it's it's it's good enough to at least enjoy being taken along the journey without feeling too light or without criticizing the scripts too much, just something in the background, but it became more. And to me, I found myself really enjoying it personally. And I've I kept on thinking, okay. I kept on trying to theorize how this would end and and how Beck would navigate all this if she's smart enough to figure it out. Spoiler. She isn't.

9:12KT: She's but later on in the series, again, if you're still listening because we know that you do this, another character says that she was unremarkable and she wasn't smart enough. And I agree.

9:26Oti: So true. It was a perfect callback. And in so many flawed characters, at least you have something to root for, but Beck was just fundamentally stupid. And

9:26KT: We we can get into characters.

9:26Oti: Yeah. Can get into characters. I'm just saying, like, that's what just hit me watching it in the first five episodes or whatever, and I enjoyed it for what it is. I didn't expect it to be something critically acclaimed. Like, I didn't expect too much from it and when I took a view I found myself enjoying it for what it is appreciating

9:55Oti: some intrigues in there and navigating a mind of a psychopath or sociopath or whatever you wanna call it.

9:55KT: Yeah well I don't think he even saw himself that way.

9:55Oti: No. He didn't. He just saw himself as someone who loves deeply.

9:55KT: Yeah. And

10:09KT: we'll definitely go for the characters. I just wanna generally touch on the series and why I didn't really care for it because I keep making these claims, so I I best explain myself. I genuinely feel like and even, you know, later on in the series, we kept saying spoilers. So the spoilers in the Splooshies is free gratis as we always like to say.

10:32KT: You Later on in the series, we have a character named Forty, and he says, this would make a great movie. And I'm like, yeah, motherfucker. It should have been a movie and not twenty hours worth. It's fucking it's the same amount that we went through watching Succession. Yeah. It was too fucking bloated. And you know what? It just felt like it fits so well in the Netflix. Hey, girl. Hey. If you wanna sponsor us, please do. But it's that Netflix sort of model of how can we, you know, give you content

11:02KT: that is as, you know, it's a fucking wankery word, bingeable. Right? Yeah. But you, you know, there's that Family Guy cutaway that you fucking love where, you know, they were talking about how Family Guy doesn't appeal anymore because it's on cable and it's not on Netflix anymore. And there's this cutaway

11:20KT: of, you know, nothing really happens until the end of the episode and then it loads the next episode in five seconds. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I really felt like this show did that as

11:20Oti: I disagree. I I think a lot happened within the show without necessarily

11:35KT: Oh, come on. There were some aspects we did not need to focus on. Him going on that, I'm going back to I'm going to season two, but we'll go back to the overall show. Mhmm. In season two where he had that spiritual journey with him and the acupuncture and all that fucking shit, we didn't need to go through that. There was so there was so much commentary about, like, Los Angeles and how how people from Los Angeles are so fucking weird. But I also feel like in some sort of way, that's just the way for people from Los Angeles to wank themselves and be like, oh, yes. We're pretentious, but that's us. You know? Like, why did I need that? And there was so much exposition

12:09KT: in this show that it just wasn't needed.

12:09Oti: I'd agree that there's a lot of bloat in this. Mhmm. And you're talking about the show, not me. Right?

12:19Oti: But with your example, I disagree because I don't think that acupuncture scene was unnecessary.

12:25Oti: I think it was to delve deeper into the psyche of Joe and who he really was and what really did happen. And this is the first time that he was actually honest with a stranger or someone that he didn't like, actually, he was supposed

12:25KT: Congratulations to this fucking psycho.

12:25Oti: No. Because Joe Joe, it's all about protecting himself and protecting the person he loves. So for him to unveil that and to be vulnerable and to allow himself that those emotions before someone, It was something that he never did really thought he'd be able to do.

12:55KT: Okay. Before we start this Joe party, let's take a step back because I'm still talking about the general sort of optics of

12:55Oti: I just wanted to call you out on that. Well, I'll call you out, bro. I'll meet you in the ring, brother.

12:55KT: Because there there were a lot of influences and whether it's direct or, you know, malicious or whether it's unintentional, whatever the fuck you wanna call it. Right? But there were inklings there was a lot of narration. At some points, the exposition wasn't necessary.

13:25KT: But in regards to the narration, it really reminded me of like Mr. Robot. So, you know, if you watch Mr. Robot, Rami Malek, who would have known? Yeah. Who would have known? Right? Good for him and good for his parents. But in Mr. Robot, there is a lot of exposition through narration. Yeah. So I was kind of expecting this sort of mastermind

13:47KT: and what a fool I was. But that's But he okay. We're we're gonna talk about him as a character, but I'm just talking about, like, shows that this reminded me of. Yeah. True. True. It fell short True. In that regard. But Another show

13:47Oti: Just to say that I did not expect Joe to be a mastermind of any song.

13:47KT: Then why are we spending time watching this mediocre, incompetent killer? And, you know, very haphazardly, he does, you know, strike people, and he does murder people,

14:16KT: sometimes in very brutal ways. I don't have a frame of reference because I haven't watched Dexter. But how would how would you or would you even compare those sort of themes?

14:26Oti: I would compare it to Dexter in the fact that he tries to be a bit more of a vigilante sort of serial killer. Justified sort of thing. And and that's the only parallel draw with Dexter. Everything else is just completely different.

14:26KT: Because I remember when we first started watching You,

14:44KT: and I was like, oh, is this like Dexter? And you're like, oh, yeah. Dexter makes mistakes too. And as we continue to watch the show, you're like, nah, man. He's he's not this dumb.

14:53Oti: No. Because with Dexter, he's been trained his whole life to be a serial killer. You know? How to channel his his need for killing Uh-huh. Properly.

15:03Oti: But with Joe, he had to transvast this world alone. Figure it out. You know? Figure it out. And he had to find his purpose. So his reasoning is I would kill as long as it's protecting the person that I love. That's the way he justifies it. Of course, he'll make mistakes because he's not a genius. Yeah. But he does put a lot of thought, and the fact that he's read a shitload of books, I think that helps.

15:25KT: Very learned.

15:26Oti: He's very learned. Yeah.

15:29KT: That that is quite interesting, isn't it? Are there any other show I think 24. There was like a 24 sort of I don't know if there was a direct homage, but there was like a countdown.

15:39Oti: Yeah. It felt kind of 24 with a countdown where he had held Delilah in the cubicle.

15:42KT: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Actually, yes. But it's like, if you're going to skip town, leave fucking straight away. No skip straight away. Who gives it sixteen hours? That's just that's just asking for trouble.

15:42Oti: Yeah. He had things to do.

16:00Oti: Know, in his psyche, he's just thinking about love and not leaving without at least saying goodbye.

16:06KT: Yeah. But, you know, overall, we do have our thoughts that we've shared about the show and that's going to continue as we go through the rest of the characters. I think Oti enjoyed this a lot more than I did.

16:06Oti: I did because I didn't expect heaven to be delivered when we're living in Mordor.

16:06KT: Damn, dog. That's a lot of references. That's a lot of references you've got there.

16:06Oti: Oh, you're welcome.

16:06KT: Okay. Well, let's let's actually get into it. Let's talk about the characters and obviously,

16:36KT: we're going to start off with Joe. Mhmm. He is the foundation of the show. Yep. And to to my opinion, that was the demise of the show. No. But let let's talk about it. You can file this in the foundational qualms section. I don't mind when characters are fragmented in some sort of way. Mhmm. It actually makes the character development more interesting. Yeah. We get more of a tantalizing push and pull sort of narrative. Mhmm. What I cannot stand is when you have characters that lack enough self awareness to know how shit they are.

17:17KT: Like, you can be the most evil and skeeviest of person, you know, our favorite our favorite example is from Spartacus. Mhmm. Ashur. Ashur. Yes. There is a there is a respectable quality about shitty people that acknowledge that they're shit. Yeah.

17:17Oti: Self awareness is key, mate.

17:17KT: Right? And it's like, I don't want you at my dinner table, but in a TV show, yes, please. I'll take another demise. Thank you. And, you know, the the qualm, the foundational qualm that I had with Joe's character is he even up until the end, he didn't believe

17:53KT: that he was evil in any way. Not even a little bit. And we we'll work up to the final sort of scenes of this series, but that's what bothered me about him. And it's not necessarily to do with him. If you've read the book, please tweet us or send us an email. But I really got annoyed with the narration of the show because, you know, all we have is what you present to us. Right? What we continue to form is based off our own frame of reference and our own analysis.

18:24KT: Right? But what we have initially is what you give to us. So when they first did the narration of, oh, I'm scared. I'm not a killer. I've never done this before. Knowing full well that he has. And that's not a lack of self awareness that's just a misdirect to the audience and that was annoying to me. Yeah. He'd killed Candace's Candace's record deal guy.

18:47Oti: Pushed him off the building. Yeah. Yeah. That was a read I think that was just sloppy writing. Yeah. He is a killer because like he's innocent. It's to make us feel like he's innocent.

18:47KT: Right? But don't lie to the viewer. Like, it's it's one thing to accept what you've done or not see it as a matter, but do you pretend that it didn't happen Right. Is completely different, especially when the timeline

19:10KT: is when he's already killed two people. If your if your twist or if your payoff for us is something that you withheld from us or you deliberately misdirected, then that's irresponsible and I will take no slices. Thank you. That's and I think that's what really got in the way of me enjoying this show.

19:27Oti: But I think other than that, I enjoyed the narration.

19:31KT: How did you let let's talk about the evolution or de evolution of Joe because there's a lot of feelings to have about Joe's character. I didn't buy in from him from the start. But I think I think you had more of a dynamic sort of, you know, emotional investment

19:49KT: to Joe as a character. Did were were there points where you liked him? Were there points where you could understand where he was coming from? Because I really feel they ramped that up in season two. In season one, it's like, this guy's a fucking creep, and he's perving on girls. And obviously, does a lot more. But when you go into season two, it it really ramped up the flashbacks and this is why I am the way I am.

20:07Oti: Yeah. In season one, they didn't give us much in terms of Joe's background or psyche. Yeah. Season two does a better job at that. And that's when you start trying to at least from some degree resonating with Joe.

20:26Oti: We could see what he's trying to achieve. You could see that there's an internal battle of good versus evil. Mhmm. And he wants to be good. Yep. And the fact that he let Will go, say the lot in his mind that he is trying to be good. He doesn't have to kill anyone that doesn't need to be killed.

20:26KT: Or he just hates women.

20:45KT: I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

20:47Oti: Settle down. Oh, but, like, he gave us a they gave us a different side of Joe in season two Uh-huh. Up until the end where I got really pissed because Joe is completely fighting to be with Love. He's trying to change his own demeanor. He's trying to change everything about him to be the perfect boyfriend to Love. Someone that Love would deserve.

21:07KT: But I think also at the same time to add to your point, that has been solidified in examples from before. You know, all of us are fucked up in some way and his manifest in how he expresses and how he chooses to receive love. Yeah. So not just Love the character, but you see that with Guinevere Beck Mhmm. And you also see that with Candace. Yeah. So it continues to build on that distorted sense of love. But at the heart of it, he wants to be loved.

21:40KT: He wants someone to see him and he wants to be accepted and he wants someone to accept his full devotion.

21:47KT: What

21:49KT: that means in the real world is killing for you. But from his point of view, I think he genuinely saw that as a pure gesture of love.

21:49Oti: He does. And and just as playing as devil devil's advocate here.

21:49KT: He I I literally tried to agree with your point, and now you're going against your point. That's how that's how you do it, ladies.

21:49Oti: I'll just I'll just take you back to season one.

22:13Oti: Don't you think that I know this is wrong from our society, but this is a bloody TV show we're talking about. Uh-oh. So I'm immersing myself into this reality. Right? Uh-huh. So if Beck is this fragile girl who doesn't know what she wants in life. Right? She's a problem. I can't wait to talk about it. But yeah. She's super problematic. She's she's flawed in a lot of ways. And Joe tries to align her towards a goal and towards him himself. Yeah. So he's he's walking both angles. He her professional progression and her relationship.

22:47Oti: Right? Uh-huh. Mhmm. Do you think Beck would have achieved what she did without Joe? No. Because she couldn't fucking write. She couldn't write for shit. You

22:57KT: just wanted to bring it up, but I wanna go back I wanna go back to your point. And, you know, a couple of episodes in our podcast, I've mentioned how Oti locks me in a room. But don't worry. It's very consensual and it's soundproof. It's Sorry, god. This is something in the neighbors. It's it's it's turned beyond our Friday nights, but you're most kept. But to go back to the actual substance of a point that you made, it didn't make sense at the end of the series.

23:25KT: It didn't make sense at the end of the series because, yes, he was fucked. And, yes, you don't want him as your neighbor. You don't want him looking after your little kid, but we understood his distorted frame of reference. Yeah. So when the tables turned on him I don't wanna get too specifics. We can do that later on in the episode. But when the tables turn on him and he is met with a love with more devotion than his own Devotion. Yeah. Those those are the words I will use. He couldn't handle it.

23:59KT: He finally found someone that saw him for him and was fine with it and actually complimented him. And I guess you could say a lot of that was him not ready to face who he was and his own metaphorical and spiritual demons. But also at the same time, come on now. Like, you've killed six people already and you have no sense of maybe I'm not great. Maybe I am a terrible person. I did it for love, but I'm still a terrible person. So the fact that he was so abhorrent and he was disgusted

24:37KT: to hear the details and the depths that Love was planning to go. At that point It just made no sense.

24:41Oti: At that point, he was ready to give up. He was ready to surrender himself to be better just because it's come to an end. Love has found out everything.

24:48KT: But that but that's okay because that also has nothing to do with him accepting that devotion of love. That still doesn't make Script sense to flip. Oh oh.

25:03Oti: But in seriousness though, he did not see that coming. And I think Love said it perfectly when she said that all this time, you've been looking at me seeing the girlfriend that you want, something that you put on a pedestal or whatever. Imperfect girl. Yeah. Mhmm. And she was saying Joe for who he really was, the monster that he is, and loving that.

25:28KT: And she was setting up for him to come back out Yeah. To unleash him. John exactly.

25:35Oti: But that didn't work. And and that just shows you that Joe had this has this idea in his in his head of who he thinks he loves and follows that, not the actual person.

25:45KT: Unless it has like, it's I I feel like at the at the root of it, if you're Australian, I really feel like there is a lot of, you know, reflection and there's a lot of demons that he needs to reconcile within himself. He doesn't have a high sense of self awareness. So a lot of that can be attributed to he couldn't face Love in her ghoulish bestiality because he wasn't ready to face that that's how he was. He still had

26:19KT: cause I think a lot I think a lot of what I was saying when watching the series as well is he still wants to live in society. You know what I mean? Like, he's got one foot in and he's still got one foot in wherever he wants to be. Like Criminal Minds for example, when you watch like the unsubs. Yeah. You can see that they isolate themselves from the world and also Mindhunter if we wanna put daddy tension as well. They isolate themselves and they're slowly working towards the escalation, right? The overall

26:54KT: sort of symbol, whether it's a family figure, a rooted lover or whatever it is. Right? But Joe still believed he could function within the world. Mhmm. But then he would keep bodies in a car for a whole night. Like, I don't like, I just don't get him. I don't understand it. But in in ways of writing, whether it had something to do with the that's the way it was written in the novel, I would not say it's because of time constraints because, again, they did have 20 episodes. But it didn't yeah. It just didn't

27:28KT: the Joe that was presented to us as imperfect as he was, we had a good understanding of who he was as a character. So for him to not walk I think just initially, for him to have that shock disgust at Love, it was a bit put offish. It's like, really, dude?

27:48Oti: You've been waiting for this girl to swoon over you the whole season.

27:51Oti: And then that's your get go reaction. To the point where was to the point where he was ready to fucking kill her Mhmm. Until she dropped the bomb where she's preggers. But I couldn't even believe what I was watching. Mhmm. And I guess maybe you could pass it off as mate, the guy's a psycho. You can't really you know, his mind is all weird and shit, but that's a that's just a get out get out card. Like, it's

27:51KT: Not even the good get out.

28:20Oti: That's just lazy. Mhmm. He has his fundamental laws and whatever beliefs that he's followed throughout the whole season. Fucking go by it in the last episode.

28:30KT: But to be perfectly honest, I don't think he knows what it's like to receive love. He doesn't. Well So so actually, no, this is this is interesting. Let's let's take a slice of this Oedipus pie. Yeah. Right? You have Candace, you also have Beck. They weren't really emotionally available. They weren't. He was so devoted and he loved them so much. It actually makes a lot of sense now talking through this because Love actually reciprocated

29:00KT: any sort of devotion that he had. And he said, I've never felt this love before because if you saw with those flashback scenes, a lot of it was him taking care of his mom. Yeah. His mom was there, but when his mom was there, he wasn't she was not taking care of him. Yeah. He took care of her into the point where he committed murder for the mom. So I don't think he was actually expecting love in return. He'll do anything for love but Love will also do anything for you.

29:33KT: And that's what he didn't expect at all. And Netflix, feel free to pay me for that tagline. But actually, no. That, you know, sometimes we come across these mind nuggets together.

29:44Oti: True. But, you know, the weird thing is he's had such a weird relationship with women and starting with the mother, that was just so completely fucked up. And I think the mother planted the seed when he started talking when she started talking about murdering the abusive husband. Yeah. And I've got a plan. I'm gonna fucking kill him. Mhmm. And as a kid, you're like, okay.

30:09Oti: My mother's only way out is to kill a guy. You you're you're trying

30:09KT: He was primed. Yeah.

30:09Oti: Like, you're priming him to to to do something Mhmm. When she when he's seeing you being beaten up. Like,

30:23Oti: there was only one way this was gonna end up. Yeah. And it completely makes sense who he is now as a person because that was some fucked up shit. And for all of that to still end up in the foster care system without the mother when home was wherever whenever they were together. Yeah. And he didn't have that anymore. He didn't have that anymore. He didn't have that anymore. So he's completely chasing that feeling that he had when they were together with a mom.

30:48KT: There were just yeah. But I think just overall, there were just inconsistencies with him because we started a point with Guinevere Beck. However, he's already had a whole relationship with Candace where he has committed murder. He thought twice. Right?

31:07Oti: So I just it it bothered me that he was so bad at it. He's still new. You know? I didn't really have a problem with him being funny his feet and not being as clinical as needed to be just because it takes so it takes some time.

31:22KT: Yeah. But then he still recanted like even in season two, he was still bad at it. Like where's where's the progression? Like aren't you supposed to be getting better at this practice?

31:22Oti: He was getting better though in season two.

31:35Oti: Not really. Like, after killing Peach in season one, you know, and leaving the bottle of urine. Those are like little women.

31:43KT: Pretty little women, if you'll pardon the reference. But he did kill that guy that was coming after the $50 properly. Yeah. But he planned like, it was meditated and he planned that. But you would I don't know. You would just think that he would he would be better at it. And I think what bothered me is, like, he wasn't, like, he wasn't smart. He wasn't even interesting. And a lot of this show is narration. I just felt like I was reading tweets of someone that has zero followers.

32:12Oti: Wolf.

32:13KT: Right? Unfollow, sir. No DMs, please. Don't think I've got that at all. Like, he was boring and he was incompetent. And then season two got to the point again where they just focused too much on LA and, like, Candace was the big crescendo. Right? Candace and we'll talk about Candace's character. But Candace is what we were working up to in season one. And even when we met her, it was that, you know, who's going to come out on top sort of thing. Right?

32:43KT: And that fizzled for, like, three episodes just so they could focus on his little life with, you know, the Quinn family. Yeah. And that got really annoying.

32:53Oti: True. True. But I was just gonna say that I think I did not find him boring because I think his mistakes built up for a better narrative in the long run because it gives you nuggets to go back to and try and call back in the storyline where it either puts him in a compromising position or he comes up and tries to build on that or he learns from that. Because you saw when he killed what was the abusive guy's name? The the the molester played by D'Elia. Henderson. When he killed Henderson,

33:27Oti: you know, he learned from pissing in a in a in a jar that he can't leave his evidence behind. He'd nosebleed. Probably be if that didn't happen, we'll just probably just walk away, leave the Zumba there, and just move on. Yeah. But even then, we were, like, cringing at him at how badly he was dealing with the crime scene. He's no expert. He's not Dexter,

33:47Oti: but I didn't I didn't have any qualms with that at all. But for Candace's character, I think she brought a lot in this show. I feel like all her acts, she just made it.

33:56KT: Let let's let's get into Candace next.

33:56Oti: Like, she brought that feeling of angst

34:01Oti: when she was on screen. You're pleading. You're wondering what the fuck is going to happen next. You wanted like, that chemistry was amazing, I think. Yeah. And I think those were one of the best scenes in the show where they were interacting with Candace or Candace was in in in the actual storyline. But I felt like they really solely underutilized her.

34:22KT: I think she was she was an effective catalyst for season one. We thought that she was dead and they led us to believe that she was dead. I'm fine with that deception. We were just waiting to find out how she died and how grizzly it was but she was an effective catalyst and she was enough for us to understand the stakes in regards to Guinevere Beck and also, you know, the little tussle that she has with Joe

34:51KT: as well and how we were going to lead up to that moment of her being captured. Mhmm. So Candace was very effective in that sort of perspective. In season two, I loved I loved when she turned up. Yep. I think it was at the end of season one, maybe that's when we found out she was alive. It was a weird the way they structured the seasons was very confusing. But anyway, we'll get to that in a second. But when we find out that actually, no motherfucker, she is still alive

35:22KT: and she is going to rain hell on you, that was that was brilliant. And I was excited for this cat and mouse. Right? But again, like, so she infiltrated the Quinn family and she she hooked up with Forty. But then she kind of dropped off because they had to make way for the other story arc that they had, which is more about the Quinn family. Yeah. Which I guess is to get more investment about Love. But to me that got in the way. It's like this is a showdown between Joe and Candace. Everything else is getting in the way.

35:56Oti: Yeah. I don't know how I felt about Candace because I thought she'd be smarter than that, especially when she had all that time to plot her supposed revenge or comeback.

36:10KT: Hang on a second. So you give graces to Joe after he's killed three people. Oh, he's still making mistakes, but you don't give any graces to Candace?

36:10Oti: No. No. No. No. Not in that way.

36:10KT: She was, like, buried alive and she's struggling to make her way into here, but she doesn't get any graces?

36:26Oti: I there's a lot of grace for Candace in this. Don't get me wrong. I give her a lot of grace.

36:32KT: And it was really sad. But you said she should have done it better. She should have been smarter. Joe wasn't smart.

36:36Oti: From the point of view where you're going after serial killer, I think anyone doing that should be absolutely prepared.

36:44KT: I think that's wrong. She was trying to be brave. How the fuck would you feel if you were Candace?

36:50Oti: Really. True. I agree. I agree. Just

36:53KT: She didn't want to go on a path of rampage, but that's all she had. She was fueled by revenge.

36:53Oti: Again. Yeah. She's claiming

36:53KT: So you'll say, oh, no. So she's just gonna sit and become an accountant and, like, live a normal life just because she's not smart enough to go against Joe, the dumbest idiot in the village.

36:53Oti: Not saying she's not smart enough. I'm just saying she would have been better prepared. That's all.

36:53KT: Yeah. But Joe's not prepared. So what's your point?

37:21Oti: They all should have been prepared. Isn't this a Kenyan proverb?

37:25KT: The left hand is jerking while the right hand should be jerking too. Yep. It's the best proverb. Know where your hands are at all times, my friends and lovers. I just it's just interesting. It's interesting the expectations you have for some characters and not for others.

37:43Oti: No. Well, Candace had some really vulnerable moments in the show and especially when she wanted to report what had just happened with Joe. And the police are like, yeah. Without really hard evidence. And she's all bloody beaten up. You could see something's happened clearly. Mhmm. They didn't even bother investigating. It's like, do you wanna file a a restraining order? Like, Farrah, the justice system is so fucked up.

37:43KT: I just thought it was weird that it was a female cop,

38:15KT: and she didn't seem to help. Yeah. Like, I get I get that the cop was in a small sort of town. That's why she was like, we don't have access to CIA labs.

38:15Oti: Not CIA. CSI.

38:15KT: CSI labs or thanks for mansplaining.

38:29Oti: You're welcome.

38:31KT: Like, we don't have access to those sort of labs. You know, they're just a small sort of county or whatever. I get that. And I get that there's only so much she can do in her own power, but it didn't even seem like she wanted to help.

38:44Oti: Yeah. It seemed a bit too an out of body sort of experience watching that. I thought there would be more empathy in that, but there wasn't. It just felt really cold shoulder shouldered and I was like, wow.

38:55KT: Maybe she didn't explain it smart enough, babe. And that is where your words work against you. But fucking hell, man. Like, I really would've I really would've enjoyed this show if it was from the perspective of Candace. Oh. There's nothing That would have been Yeah. And again, there's nothing wrong with Joe being evil, problematic sort of suitor, but I think it would have been interesting more from prey sort of perspective. Imagine it was told from her perspective. Right?

39:38KT: There were some episodes where they told it from the perspective of Beck in season one. Again, no one wants to no one. Okay. Let's talk about Beck for a second. Anything else about Candace?

39:38Oti: No. Loved Candace.

39:38KT: Oh, did you?

39:38Oti: Yeah.

39:38KT: Maybe rewind to two minutes ago. We love you listeners. We're not sure if Oti is one of them. But let's talk about Beck. Mhmm. Where the fuck does she get off in any instance of anything? Like, everyone goes through problems in their lives. Right? And I'm not one to minimize

40:13KT: how someone's feeling. You know? It might not be the most dramatic or the most traumatic sort of experience. But when people go through shit, they go through shit. So I'm not one to minimalize, you know, what people go through. And in regards to Beck, she didn't have like a perfect sort of childhood. Yeah. Right? I think from what we could gather, she wasn't rich. Her dad was a drug addict. Mhmm. And that is sad enough.

40:43KT: But that wasn't enough for her. She wanted to pull all of the emotional investment out of a room and invest it in herself. Yeah. She wanted all of the attention. She wanted to stand out. Yeah. Because that is sad enough. The fact that she had to see her dad passed out is enough, but she needed to say he was dead. Mhmm. Because you saw the treatment that she got. Yeah. Everything

41:08Oti: that she wrote about as well was about the father dying. Like dead puppies or whatever and

41:15KT: then we'll talk about that professor in a second the the man. But when she gets transferred to the female professor and we meet Blythe Yep. As well, she really doesn't have a semblance of who she is as a person. No. Because she's too busy creating a persona for herself. Yeah. Right? And even when the new professor was like, oh, I'm sorry to hear about your father. You know what I mean? Like, you could see the way people treated her differently. And, you know, she would never admit it out loud. But she

41:49KT: she like, her success was tribute to Peach's death. There was even like an article she wrote of what to wear to your best friend's funeral Yeah. Which I guess can be your way of grieving, but really dude? Like really? It just seems like it's in poor taste. But like she needed that tragedy in order to write anything cohesive. And again, back to your question earlier, she needed to be locked in that cage in order for her to write it. But again, I

42:22KT: feel like you're a good writer if you can write anything. She was just writing what was happening. Right? Yeah. But she really had this sense of the word for today kids, entitlement.

42:36Oti: True. She was super entitled. She like because anytime,

42:41KT: who was it? Was it was it her ex boyfriend? I think it was her ex boyfriend that was telling her that she wasn't good at writing. And then Peach told her that she wasn't good at writing. And she what did she do? She cut them off. Anytime someone gave them, like, gave her proper criticism about how she can do better, she was like, nah. Sorry. I'm the best in the world. Like, get lost. You know what I mean? So it just didn't make sense. And that whole, like,

43:08KT: I feel like I can say this because I'm a woman. I don't wanna speak on all, like, you know, female sort of experiences, but she was a flirt. She was a flirt. She knew she was flirting. So not to say whatever happens out of that flirting is is, you know, what she deserves, but you also know the the what you're evoking. Right? And she was trying to get that grade. Mhmm. Right? But again, I'm not going any further than that because obviously being a woman no matter how strong

43:45KT: you are and how confident you are, sometimes shit happens. Right? True. But she used her sexuality as a weapon is all I'm going to say about that. But she like, oh, I didn't care for Joe as you could hear. And I also didn't like Beck either. So I'm like, well, just kill her then. She was not a good writer.

44:08Oti: She she was tremendously flawed. She was not loyal.

44:14KT: Oh, no. She was untrustworthy. She she chased the thrill.

44:18Oti: She did. And then it got boring. Mhmm. And then she chased another thrill. Mhmm. Even when they're happy, I think she's never truly happy. She doesn't like being happy. Yeah. Like those people who self sabotage because they feel like they deserve less than they have. Mhmm. Like, they can't just be happy because fuck this feeling. Yeah. I I deserve to be miserable.

44:42Oti: And I think that's one of the things that was going on with her. She was always looking for something that just if everything was going well with Joe, she'd go and cheat. Mhmm. Or she'd go and do something else. Like, it's And the moment Joe got with Karen

44:56KT: Yeah. She looked him up and then she she just happened to be in a food truck. Just in the neighborhood. Piss off. I just probably walk around the block. Yeah.

45:08Oti: Joe probably wasn't as happy as she was with Beck when she was when he was with Minty, Karen Minty. But it's because she gave love freely.

45:18KT: He wanted someone that was emotionally jilted. Yeah. Right? And had a really distorted way of expressing love. Familial to his mother.

45:18Oti: True that.

45:18KT: But it yeah. I know. And the first season, what do you prefer? The first season or the second season?

45:18Oti: The second season.

45:39Oti: Just because we get to see more of what what drove Joe behind the scenes. And we get to meet Love, who I think was a good character, and I felt like the third season would have been great if Joe if the final scene wasn't Joe looking at another woman. Taking the premise of You being a different woman every fucking season. It just I felt like he had an ambition and he had a goal. And once he achieved that and once he found love and happiness,

46:09Oti: he'd be good. But he took that as a punishment. Yeah. He took being in suburbia

46:09KT: He made

46:14KT: his own prison.

46:15Oti: Fucking parents Yeah. In laws, sorry Yeah. As a fucking punishment. Yeah. And now he's there sitting in suburbia and being like, now this is the reason I'm here picking over the fence.

46:29KT: Because I think he said he said something to the effect of, like, the the home I was building was a prison for myself.

46:33Oti: Fucking vomit, man. Yeah. So it feels like the only tapestry for this would be the same sort of ingredients that they've used in season one and two to make season three.

46:33KT: Between you and I, would we

46:33Oti: I don't think I'll continue with this in season three because I pretty much know what will happen in the in the whole season.

46:33KT: Thank god.

46:33Oti: And I felt like once they brought in Love and brought the new dimension of Love being a psycho, if not more than Joe,

47:04Oti: they'd actually find some semblance of peace. Like, they can be psycho together. Yeah. Be psycho together. Go kick go kill people together. One of my one of my favorite episodes

47:16KT: of Criminal Minds, since we mentioned it earlier, was Riding the Lightning. And I think it was, like, within the first five seasons when

47:24Oti: Gideon. Gideon. We love Gideon.

47:26KT: What's his name? Your Homeland guy. Mandy Patinkin. Mandy Patinkin. It's called Riding the Lightning and it's about a couple that kill together. Oh. Oh, and it is four chef kisses. It is delicious. Yeah, sounds good. Because you fully embrace it, right? If again, not in our real world, not at our dinner table, but in the means of fiction, yes. Be disgusting and go kill other people, Right? What I would say, not that I'm going to be watching it if, you know, if Oti dicks me down, then yes.

48:03KT: But I'm really not looking to watch the third season. But you know what would be interesting is they've got the layer of Love now. So would she stop him or would she help him? That would be an interesting dynamic but not for ten episodes, dude.

48:21Oti: Love is looking for someone to build a family with.

48:21KT: No but that's what I'm saying but it seems like he's still on the prowl.

48:21Oti: He's still on the prowl because his fucking dick like I felt those more to George just that other than being infatuated by every girl he meets.

48:35KT: There's not. We literally heard all his thoughts. There's nothing I There's nothing more to me.

48:35Oti: Hoped there was more.

48:44Oti: I hoped there was more. And that last scene just killed the series for me. And I was like, okay. This is where I checked out. You've given me two good at seasons. Mate, I I checked out I checked out in the second episode of season one. But knowing that this is the formula that they're going to do it, it's like a crime procedural.

49:04KT: I'm not down for that. Like, it's done. We've seen it before. Yeah. They gave us enough examples to exemplify what he is as a person, which made the end of season two even more perturbing. Yeah. Right? It just didn't make sense. It confuddles the mind. How dare you do that to me? Let's talk through a few more other characters. Did you wanna say anything more about Peach?

49:04Oti: I called it from the start that she was in love with her best friend.

49:04KT: Oh, yeah. You did. Kind of boring though. Like, I'm sick of that now.

49:38KT: Like, I'm getting in the way because I'm in love with you. Okay. Cool, dude. Sit down. Go and wank yourself off to the pictures. Like, go find another storyline, please.

49:47Oti: I didn't find a problem with that.

49:50KT: I did wanted to get the upper hand at the end. Obviously, that wouldn't happen because there's a season two. But I was really hoping that Shay Mitchell would pull through.

49:50Oti: Yeah. True. But the thing weird thing is they kept

49:50KT: And she's got silky smooth skin. Thank you. That's all.

50:06Oti: Joe kept on referring to her as a bad friend. And maybe that's just from his point of view, but I thought she was actually the one that was giving Beck actual real life advice. Like, far out, man. She was probably the only thing that was real in the trio of friends that Beck had that was actual that seemed like a teensy beat of human.

50:24KT: Yeah. No. But she she really did have Beck's best interests at heart. Even more so going back to the example of, you know, Joe, he was always like, I'm being the supportive boyfriend. Nah, man. If you're supportive, you should tell her that she's shit at writing. He became supportive when he locked her in the cage. But Peach said it, not straight to her face because obviously, Beck found out and she had to reveal it. But Peach loved Beck enough to see her thrive.

50:57KT: The only time she would get in the way of Beck's happiness is, you know, in ways of love. Yeah. She would get him she would get Beck to hook up with guys that she knew were going to be temporary. Yeah. But that's fine, You know, aside from that, but, you know, like, we talked about it in our Succession episode where I just don't have that frame of reference because, you know, people can't say shit about my life. You know why Oti? Because I don't rely on them financially

51:27KT: except for Oti. I'm bleeding him dry. And all of the senses.

51:33Oti: And it's it's ridiculous that Beck kept on putting this front as if she was this Good person. Yeah. But she was farthest from that. Yeah. Why I was like, hurry up and kill her already.

51:46KT: It's like, it got to a point where I'm like, I actually don't care which one of you dies. I would prefer if both of you die in regards to Joe and Beck.

51:52Oti: And then she has the audacity to come back at Joe and be like, without trust? Yeah. Without trust, we have nothing. Ugh. Vomit while she was cheating with Dr. Nicky.

52:04KT: Dr. Nicky. Daddy's famous. Ugh. Far on, man. Let let's talk about it. There's obviously a lot to be said about therapists that sleep with their clients. They ain't shit. May I refer you to Sopranos.

52:19Oti: Actually, they never slept together, did they? No. He he wanted to be in that though. Yeah. But she enjoyed it. She did enjoy. She dreamt of it a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

52:28KT: But don't we all dream of Gandolfini? Rest in peace. And Edie Falco. Fucking love Edie. Yeah. How have we not covered a show of Edie Falco yet? No idea. Oz. That will probably be the next one. With Oti Coughlin. You love your Coughlin. I do and I love you as well. I don't really think there's much to say about Dr. Nicky. I think he was whether it was in the book or whether it was just introduced in the show,

52:57KT: it was it was a necessary plot device to be able to pin it all on him. What did you think about him

53:04Oti: finding religion and finding God and accepting whatever that has happened? That's me in the reference.

53:12KT: You don't wanna finish it? No. And I just found it a bit strange and weird. It was just the way to end that thread. Yeah. Like It was just the way to tie off that end. You'd

53:25Oti: think even after knowing that Joe was targeting another woman, his religion would allow him to step outside of himself and try and help someone.

53:31KT: Which religion is the religion that gives me superpowers in this mortal life? Oh, I'm about to find that. I think I've mentioned this in one of our podcast episodes. One of my high school teachers said, I have the charisma of a cult leader. And you're welcome. Yes. Oti is Oti is my only disciple. Feel free to send us your PayPal details and we can talk. And we can plant the seed. Well, Oti can plant the seed literally. I can do it sexually.

54:03KT: It was all a ruse. We waited this long, guys. Let's talk about something more innocent. Let's talk about Paco. Yeah. According to IMDb trivia, because again, we are very learned, He was introduced as a part of the show. He wasn't part of the book. Oh. So I think it was just an extra device to add a layer of not necessarily relatability, but just understanding Joe's upbringing.

54:29Oti: I think it was more as a device to introduce the vigilantism into Joe's life.

54:36KT: No. But it was also A reason to do something to you. But it was also to show what Joe went through as a kid and how he's not all evil. He'll just kill lettuce.

54:48Oti: Yeah. And man, he's killed his fair share of man. Yeah. But because of the lettuce.

54:56KT: I I don't know. I just thought we were going to see him again Yeah. After season one. Maybe season three?

55:02Oti: Maybe. Because I don't think his story is over. I feel like he'll come he'll be similar to Joe, if not worse.

55:11KT: You know what's interesting? Like, at the end of season two when he's looking through the gate of the neighbor, I thought that he needed to creep on them more before he decided they're his next target.

55:23Oti: Or even see their face. She was just saying the back of his head her head. And not even her backside, just the back of her head. Yeah. With a hat on. Like, seriously, who gets stand on by that?

55:32KT: He got a hard on with a hat on. Maybe that's why.

55:37Oti: Doctor Seuss, KT.

55:40KT: You're most welcome. I'm here from Thursday to Sunday. But, like, yeah, like she could be a Butterface and you would never know. Are the kids still saying Butterface?

55:53Oti: I don't know.

55:53KT: Yeah, you do.

55:56KT: Fucking Henderson. What

55:59Oti: the fuck?

56:01KT: Let's let's transition to another kid character where we have Ellie. Can I just say I felt a bit of shame inside because she seemed to know more about film than I do? Like, usually my excuse for not watching things is because it came out before my time. But she pretty much everything she watched came out before her time. Yeah. Like, was quoting Lebowski off her own volition.

56:24Oti: Blow on these, mate.

56:25KT: Really?

56:25Oti: Yeah.

56:25KT: Is that a reference?

56:25Oti: Yeah.

56:25KT: An Oti reference?

56:25Oti: Best reference there is.

56:25KT: Well, it's the only one that counts.

56:36Oti: But I think she was trash to her sister. You can say she's 15, but me when I was 15, fuck sakes.

56:43KT: What made her trash is she found out about it. She saw the photos and she got angry at the sister because of the photos. Yeah. Like me, 15. You're too old. Come on. You're too old for that shit now. You're too old to be carrying on like that. Yeah. However, I would say I feel bad for her because, yes, you know, kids sneak out and they go to the club or, you know, they're at places that they shouldn't be because they wanna feel grown. Right? You know, disgusting

57:16KT: people might say things because they chose to be there. Yeah. But it's just sad that we live in a world where you can't pretend to be grown up and not have consequences Again, I was a very good brown Mormon girl. I am I am some of those still. So I never I never really snuck out of the house, you know, at that sort of age. But it's sad. It's it's just sad that that's how the world is.

57:47Oti: It is sad that's how the world is. But they had a strong relationship with Delilah. Mhmm. In other respect, and I think once she came around to being a grown up about the situation, she understood, and I think that salvaged everything. But then she loses Delilah. Yeah. And then it's all spirally from there. She's being pushed on Amada Henderson, which is crazy.

58:14KT: And okay. So let's we haven't even talked about Love as a character. But if you've watched the show, you know, Love sets it up to Joe that everything's going to be fine because one of Joe's main concerns was Ellie. Right? And I genuinely feel like he cared about Delilah and Ellie. Right?

58:31Oti: To At least Ellie.

58:33KT: Right? So to to reassure Joe that everything was going to be okay, Love said, you know, she's going to be set up in this sort of scenario, but it's going to be okay. What do you think about that?

58:33Oti: They're rich. I think they would have put it off.

58:33KT: But whether it did or not, I don't think Love cared very much. She because a lot of the time we saw Joe doing everything. Everything possible, getting rid of people that got in the way and Love was like next level.

59:04KT: Like, Love was like the final form. I think Love is more of the realist in this. Again, Netflix, contact me for that tagline.

59:12Oti: I think Love was more realist in this where she saw the situation for what it was. Joe would have tried to paint it into some fucking fantasy that would never had worked. Yeah. While he's fantasizing, Love already did it. Yeah. Yeah.

59:26KT: Yeah. And I feel bad for Delilah. Obviously, that experience that she had with Henderson really scarred her. Yeah. It's sad because she's prickly and she's bitter. But, know, she's got those defenses for a reason. Mhmm. Right? So it was sad. It it was sad to see that. And, you know, as soon as she got in the cage, you're like, mate, she's gone. Like, she's dead. Of course. There was only one way that I was gonna I know. But there was a part of me because I really only like Delilah and Ellie sometimes. I

59:58KT: didn't really care for anyone else in this show. So it was sad that she had to go. It was interesting that it was Love. I would say that I guessed it but then I pretty much guessed everyone killed Delilah. Yeah. They expected it to be Forty but then they had the twist of it being Love all along. Right? Because Love slaughters all. Again, Netflix, please contact me. But it was interesting. It was interesting to see all of that sort of unfold. Are there any other characters you wanna go through?

59:58Oti: Forty.

60:34KT: Yes, actually. And we haven't even talked about Love. We can do it together. Yeah. I just wanna say that the Quinn family is not Succession rich. No. That is my barometer. Like that is my barometer now. And I'm also disappointed because like I could have watched Succession second time all the way through instead of watching this fucking show.

60:56Oti: Come on now. This show has its faults, but it's by no means unwatchable. It's It's easily digestible. Yes. And that's what you want for you don't need something that you did do sing. Like, we've been watching Servant for the last what? The past week and I like Servant. They're just heavily relying on fucking confusions as a plot device, and it's annoying the hell out of me. So the fact that you get a show where you can just go along with the story

61:25Oti: with, you know, twists that you could probably see coming, but it's quite digestible and enjoyable to a degree. Yeah. It's easily digestible.

61:36KT: It doesn't necessarily make it the most opulent of desires.

61:40Oti: Yeah. But Forty and Love, bloody hell. That's a relationship that you would not want for anyone. No. Just the level of co dependence is insane. Oh, yes. I don't think anyone that dated Love was actually fine with that sort of shit because that's really weird. The fact that she would put everything aside just to be by the brother or the including the brother into in intimate activities, that's just a bit too much.

62:10KT: Unless because at on the surface, it's her trying to protect her idiot addict brother. Right? But on another level, maybe it was her keeping him close so he doesn't divulge a family secret. Maybe so. Because he shared that with Will or Joe.

62:28Oti: But we did come to find out that Forty apparently knew it all along. True. Which didn't make sense because I think he's dumbass. So

62:39KT: But that's that's that's what gave him graces to me. He wasn't malicious.

62:44Oti: He wasn't malicious. He came to grow on us a bit in towards the final episodes of the season up until the last at least for me. And you could see that he just wanted someone who, you know, he wanted a friend. He just wanted a fucking friend. Yeah. Give the guy a hug, mate. He was like he was like, yeah, you lied about your identity, but you're realer than 80% of the motherfuckers I know. Yeah.

63:08KT: Because we yeah. From what we know through TV shows and movies, maybe that is true. Everyone goes to California to get famous. Your California

63:18Oti: love.

63:19KT: Oh, so you won't sing Losing My Religion with me.

63:19Oti: Mate, this is Tupac, mate.

63:19KT: Alright. Well, we're just giving some silence for Tupac. We maybe should we should right? I was like, maybe we should start a conspiracy podcast.

63:19Oti: Oh, mate. He's listening to this right now.

63:19KT: I would literally never leave the house. If we started a conspiracy podcast, I would never leave the house on my own choice because we never leave the house anyway but that's because I choose to. Let's make that distinction very clear.

63:49KT: Love and Forty pretty much intertwined together. I think we've pretty much covered everything that we wanted. Was there anything else about Love you wanted to mention?

63:49Oti: No.

63:49KT: Did you see it coming?

63:49Oti: No, I did not. I didn't see it coming but then again it didn't push me to climax once we found that out. I was just like, I

64:08Oti: was like, finally, you know what it feels like. I was almost there until I saw Joe's reaction and then it was just full retraction from there. Yeah. Edging, just like watching Servant. Not

64:19KT: even me. I love Servant. And if you guys wanna hear us cover it, maybe we'll wait till there's at least like two seasons before we talk about Servant.

64:27Oti: Just so that we can have something to talk about because right now it'll be like, there's a doll that turns into a baby. I don't know.

64:35KT: In the most cherished words Vodka stand. In the most cherished words of old man Logan, fuck off. But it all it all culminated in what you say, a very enjoyable show. I would agree that it's watchable. I wouldn't necessarily say that it's enjoyable. But again, let us know what you guys think about the show. We invested twenty hours, so you're damn sure that we did an episode on it. I just wanna give a shout out to Robin Lord Taylor. Whoop whoop. That's our Cobblepot.

65:16Oti: Yeah.

65:16KT: How fucking rewarding was it? Actually, it would have been rewarding if we were able to guess without googling.

65:24Oti: Knew the voice. Just it annoyed the hell out of me that I couldn't place his face. And once he said that, I just

65:33KT: yeah. I felt disappointed because usually I can place people. That voice was undeniable. However however, I have not watched Gotham for a long time and that hair was throwing me off. Right? It was weird and he had a tan. I'm like, what are you doing? Go back in the shadows, my love. It was weird. But Yeah. It's like Horde playing Homelander. Like, you could you just don't see it. Oh, if you want a verbal taste of Oti's milk, you should definitely listen to our The Boys episode.

66:04Oti: Oh, I fucking love that show. It's one of the best.

66:04KT: See? And again, like, okay, I watched it. You can you can hold that against me. But it just made me think of all the other shows I could have been rewatching while I was watching this.

66:19Oti: No. I enjoyed it for what it was. And it's a good enjoyable show that anyone, you know, with a little bit of time on their hands could definitely sink their teeth into this.

66:19KT: Twenty hours is a lot of time, my love.

66:19Oti: Less than twenty hours, it's forty minutes an episode so

66:37KT: Use your abacus, mate. You're welcome. Is that a number? Yeah. Case closed apparently. So thank you so much for listening to our episode this week. Again, if you didn't enjoy this show, don't hold it against us. I I think I mentioned it before we said spoilers that you didn't need to watch it. So it's literally on you. If you have any complaints, send it to email because I'm on Twitter. Don't you can't read the emails. So we're going to finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference.

67:13Oti: I'm going to reference Dexter.

67:16KT: Oh, Laboratory?

67:18Oti: If you want to watch Laboratory and Yeah. Tell me Dee Was the name Dee Dee? Yeah. Dee Dee. Dee Dee and Dexter. Well, she didn't have the chest for it. Very ridiculous. That's a kid's couture with me. She was still a girl.

67:34KT: She was a kid. Still able to develop breasts.

67:38Oti: Get out of here, Henderson. I I

67:41KT: peeked early, my loves.

67:44Oti: Yeah. Follow Dexter. You see how he's trained into this vigilante serial killer, and it's a really good show. Mhmm. Up until it isn't.

67:44KT: Okay. Wasn't it just the ending or it was a slow descent?

67:44Oti: Like, it was a slow descent for me, but it's really good. It's one of those shows you just have to tick off your boxes that you've watched Dexter and you appreciate all of its glory.

67:44KT: Tick off the box. I thought you said take off your boxes.

68:13Oti: You can do that as well. Dexter will appreciate it. It'll make it easier. Mhmm. Or harder. And if you wanna watch Joe in his full glory, watch Gossip Girl.

68:22KT: Oh. Woah. I don't know. Now I'm worried people are gonna tell us to cover that.

68:31KT: My turn?

68:31Oti: Your turn.

68:34KT: I will reference the 2019 Todd Phillips film Joker.

68:40Oti: Oh.

68:42KT: If we wanna talk about someone that is potentially descending into evil, that is a great example to have. First of all, because Arthur Fleck acknowledged who he was as a person but it is a more effective portrayal of that. Yeah. So yeah. That's and we do have a Joker episode. So if you have watched Joker, definitely check that out as well. Brilliant. Thank you so much, guys. Again, keep your curtains closed.

69:17Oti: Yeah. Don't have fucking sex aside next to the window. Bloody hell. When you're on street level. Unless you're into that. Unless you're into that. Then don't blame the pub jacking off to you guys outside.

69:28KT: And we otherwise known as Oti. It'll be like you know in the show where you had, like, Peach watching Beck in the bath and then you have, like, Joe watching as well? Yeah. It'll be exactly like that. You guys, whoever's whoever's listening to this, you'll be having sex even with yourself. And then Oti will be watching you wanking off, and then I'll be in the distance flicking my bean.

69:28Oti: Gladly, mate.

69:28KT: There is

69:56KT: we have literally crescendos. There's nothing else to say. Thank you so much guys for listening on Twitter Instagram. We are for your ref pod. You can write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. And we're also on Patreon too. Thanks so much guys. Have a great week. See you. Bye.