The Last Showgirl, Big Boys, Wish You Were Here, Every Little Thing & Liquor Bank

Full transcript of The Last Showgirl, Big Boys, Wish You Were Here, Every Little Thing & Liquor Bank.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, and it is another edition of Reference Max, Oti. Mm-hmm. It's also the year anniversary of like that

0:14Oti: the IG.

0:15KT: Because you're dripping and you're loving it.

0:18Oti: Yeah.

0:19KT: Uh, friends and lovers, we are very excited to get into this Reference Max. We are slowly getting back into, um, the backlog. I guess before we even get into it, I guess even hinting to a future review, Oti, who's the number one on the call sheet? Ooh, No, no, no. We don't do this Fake humility shit. Who me?

0:44Oti: Gimme a chance to say you.

0:48KT: Well, now doesn't feel as good. I, I'm not. Dwayne the KT Johnson,

0:55Oti: your old PI at the end of the day.

1:00KT: We're all indigenous.

1:02Oti: Mm,

1:02KT: well, not, not a few of you put your hands down frontal office. We know who we are looking at. Uh, let's get onto the show. Jesus Who needs a soundboard? When you've got the Effervescence of life? Boutique welcome. If you're not scared and you're still here, friends and lovers to the Reference podcast, you've got your host, KT

1:35Oti: and Oti.

1:37KT: Today on our Ref Max, we are kicking it off with a short film. Before we get to that, we also have, um, a lot of indie titles that we are getting into today. But let's kick it off. Let's do it right. This is Liquor Bank, shout outs to Marcellus Cox, friends and lovers of the For Your Reference household. If you are familiar, we actually covered Mickey Hardaway, which was his feature film. Mm-hmm. Which is also available and also. Stop going onto Letterboxd saying you thought it was Mickey 17. Go and pay for a ticket. Fuck yeah. Leave Marcellus Cox alone because for Marcellus will inherit the beef. Um, but this is a short film. Um. Marcellus mentioned that it will be in festival screenings from May and available to everyone in November. If you follow us on the socials, definitely follow Marcellus.

2:34KT: Um, and we'll also be sharing that information, um, in the show notes as well as on our socials as well. Um, but I think before we even get into the short film, Liquor Bank, um, I do just wanna put a. Trigger warning. We're not gonna go into detail 'cause we don't wanna spoil it. Um, and we're just not going to get graphic like that. But I just wanna put a trigger warning for, um, alcohol abuse, suicidal ideation. Yeah. And also some big feelings as well. But we're okay with feelings around here. Mm-hmm. All right, Oti. Let us know, uh, um, I guess a bit of a backdrop. This is an insular short film around 13 minutes, um, where we focus on a young man that, I don't know how much we want to talk about the plot, but essentially he's fighting his own demons.

3:29KT: Um, he would rather be a demon himself, then fight his own demons. Um, and he also has a mentor. So it, it really is just focusing on that dynamic.

3:41Oti: Yeah, I love the execution of, um, what Marcellus is doing from his feature to the short.

3:46KT: Yes, we

3:47Oti: get to see black men being vulnerable, black men getting help. Mm-hmm. And it's carried through to this. Yeah. It's being vulnerable and knowing that someone has your back.

3:59KT: Yeah.

4:00Oti: And you are not alone. It's a village. So I'm here for it. We got to see Eddie being vulnerable and you know, him going through his life struggles. I was feeling a way for him. Yeah. I was, I was, I was, I was very, um, I was tapped into his, into his struggle. Mm. Up until he started acting a different way where I feel like if it was me being a mentor, I would've probably walked out.

4:30KT: You would've smacked him on your way. Huh?

4:33Oti: But yeah, like it, a lot of patience in there send a lot of, um, acceptance and, and I loved sort of the messaging around even there was a quote at the end, which I thought was very succinct and spoke to me.

4:47KT: Yeah. And you know, we covered a documentary. About suicide and how I said that, you know, there were a lot of facts where it felt very normalized, but even to talk about it with the filmmaker, it didn't feel like it was comfortable, even though that's what the film was about. Um, and I really appreciated in this short film that. This is some hard life shit. And I'm pretty sure that was also said in the short as well. And it's not something that's wrapped up in a tiny bow as like an afternoon sort of special, right? This is some real shit. This is complicated. And you're going to have moments like where Eddie's like, man, I don't even wanna fight for myself today.

5:29KT: You know what I mean? And I think that's part of where community is so important, right?

5:35Oti: Yeah. And, and, and like. In the movie Arrival gave us time is non-linear. We like to say progress cannot be linear. So, and that's how in this short 13 minutes, we get to see the ebbs and flow of where you feel like you are making headway or you're not. Mm-hmm. And the struggles and i, I, I just want more from Marcellus.

5:58KT: Oh, absolutely. And you know, I think the highest of compliments we can give is, you know, we do our Reference Degustations where we cover like common and recurring themes of filmmakers. It was also fun talking to Marcellus about our Spike Lee run, um, as well. But, you know, I can already imagine what the common and recurring themes would be for Marcellus work. Mm-hmm. Which is very cool and very exciting and in a world of, uh. You know, where men don't wanna look inside and, and lean on each other. It's very empowering and it's, it's very inspiring as

6:33Oti: well. Yeah. We are looking at the, Marcellus Cox, um, Degustation.

6:37KT: Manifest it. Manifest it,

6:39Oti: man.

6:39KT: Manifest it. Absolutely. Um, but let's move on. Thank you to the team at Madman as well as Nixco. This is The Last Showgirl. Pamela Anderson had the cutest Criterion Closet. So now break her heart, Oti.

6:56Oti: I am not breaking anyone's heart today. The Last Showgirl floods with reach, themes of aging and the desire to stay in the spotlight, but they never fully land. Self-reflection feels a non arriving a little too late.

7:16KT: I think we used the same, uh, search engine because okay. There was a tangible opportunity to harness the desperation of the fleeting spotlight, but the earnest reflection came a little too late and a little too shallow.

7:40Oti: What for what?

7:43KT: Juno. All right. Things say,

7:46Oti: uh, I guess mine is based off the. Sort of discussions we've had because we watched this a few weeks back. We've been discussing it throughout, I think.

7:57KT: Yeah.

7:57Oti: So it's not surprising that we sort of have a similar take on it. And uh, we were pretty much in sync even after getting outta the cinema, which is quite rare if you know us. So Really? Yeah, like we always have like a differing opinion. Mm. Especially after we've immediately seen something. Um, but yeah, this was unison. This was feeling that we, the movie had set up a groundwork to delve into themes that we thought like, okay, good. We're going get something touching here. But they never really got there.

8:33KT: And we just

8:33Oti: got to see denial, denial, denial. We never really got to see any self-reflection or growth, and that's just, especially for when you're covering a movie like this.

8:44KT: Yeah.

8:44Oti: It's somewhere where I'd expect to see spades of that.

8:48KT: Oh, absolutely. But I, I wanted this to be her Substance, you know?

8:55Oti: Yeah. Yeah. Um, you said it as soon as you saw it, you were very excited to go watch it

9:04KT: because I didn't see a world in which I wouldn't at least appreciate what was being done. Hmm. Right. And I think it's, it's like we said, it's, it's like the, the ever eternal JoJo says, sometimes you're a little too late, you know? Um, and it's also quite sad that Stuber is still Dave Bautista's best movie.

9:30Oti: Wow.

9:32KT: Feel free to fill in the blank. Okay, well let's go back to Pamela Anderson then. Exactly.

9:40Oti: Uh, ah. Are they head Stu, by the way? Stu,

9:44KT: we love Stu. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. I think that's my favorite role of his so far. Um, so that was doesn't was Thatt want

9:54Oti: to stay away from such movie like Stu though?

9:56KT: No, I'm saying Yeah, him, but I'm saying in no way was that an insult. That's a compliment. Wasn't, yeah, I'm, I'm saying that's a good thing. Mm-hmm. Um, I just, friends and lovers. We're all a little bit ugly. Let's be perfectly honest. Not many of us have the very fleeting, but have the opportunity in life to be beautiful for once, right? Her character had that, lost it and didn't realize it had left the building.

10:30Oti: Didn't realize it was because of

10:32KT: which, which

10:33Oti: is, uh. I don't know if it's delusion or it's, I didn't understand how the takeaway from that or the lesson can be that late in life.

10:50KT: Yeah.

10:51Oti: When you seemingly had it all and you didn't realize it's because of.

10:56KT: But even the way she was talking, it felt like she was making high art until you realize she was getting read to filth, but fairly so without, without spoiling too much. Um, but she got read deservedly so from her daughter, um, near the end of the film. But, you know, it's not even, was it all worth it because she enjoyed the time that she had? Yeah. She didn't realize that her, uh. Son Mae, no Milland. Mm. There are too many, uh, women in lore that like turn old and wrinkly like a raisin. Actually, why was it so easy for me from fantasy George R. R. Martin to anime to have those references on hand? But anyway, um. There were no real moments of reflection.

11:48KT: It's just she got pushed out of the cart and now she's like, am I not sexy? And it's like, no, bro, you were.

11:58Oti: And not to realize I played any part in you getting all that. Anyway,

12:03KT: you know it's an egregiously white woman film. When I agree with the white male characters, I hate it. Stop it. Don't do that to me. That's not fair.

12:16Oti: Uh, there was a scene at the end. I'm not really gonna spoil it, but there decent. And I was like, yeah, she needs to hear that.

12:25KT: Yeah.

12:28Oti: Madness.

12:30KT: Next up, thank you to Rob and the team at Prodigy PR. This is Big Boys, uh, which was also nominated at GLAAD for Outstanding Film, Oti. Mm-hmm. Um, so also Indie Spirit, um, as well, so. I'm going to read my non-spoiler review. As you know, it's all non-spoiler. Um, I do have a couple of things that I want to talk about, um, as well in regards to this film. Big Boys is a really sweet film with big feelings and the love and space to be able to process them. A gorgeous watch.

13:11Oti: Oh wow. So tell me a bit about the movie.

13:17KT: I think it's quintessential coming of age. Um, and I also appreciate that it had the queer lens as well. Um, there were some moments in regards to the film where as awkward as I was as a teenager, I don't think I necessarily try to transfer or if I can use a Twilight reference, imprint. Or be imprinted upon. Yeah, I'm thinking of Leah. I'm not thinking of Renesmee.

13:50Oti: When you say imprint, you definitely just go into Renesmee, or what else are you thinking of?

13:55KT: You leave that CGI baby alone, but what I mean by that is like if I were to have a crush, I wouldn't necessarily. Impart all of my hopes and dreams into that. So it, I did find it hard and a bit cringe at times where I'm like, oh, this kid, 'cause he kind of like has a crush on his girlfriend's boyfriend. But there were moments where he like lingers around the tent a little too much. Ooh, yeah. And I'm like, Ooh. But it's just, it is just the relatability sort of thing. 'cause I was, I was trying not to be around people just in general. So from that point of view, I was like, oh, this kid's stressing me out. But in general it was very sweet because I think we all deserve, but especially young people. I guess I'm shading both of us. We're not young, Oti, but I, I feel like young people deserve the space to explore and also be safe during that exploration as well.

15:01KT: It was like a soft landing, like it wasn't, I'm going to, I'm going to make you feel bad about feeling a certain way or trying to understand who you are. In this world. Um, and I thought it was really sweet. Um, there was, there was a lot of sibling shit going on with him and his brother. Um, which, because it's being told from his point of view, it can feel very harsh. And I'm not saying that it wasn't harsh, but um, I think it's one of those sorts of like navigating dynamics and, you know, as much as your brother's a dick, he also cares about you in many ways as well. Mm-hmm. So. I really enjoyed it. Um, I, I thought it was sweet. Nice. Moving on. Thank you to the team at, uh, Katrina Juan PR.

15:54KT: This is Wish You Were Here. Come on, Oti. You can do it. Put your back into it.

16:00Oti: All right. Um, Wish You Were Here is a romcom, nostalgic for yesteryear. Led by a protagonist we want to root for, even if not everything clicks. It has its moments.

16:17KT: It was a movie. Friends and lovers, I'm sure even you know by now, more tropey than unrealistic. Wish You Were Here feels dated in an era where rom-coms are more intricate and grounded. Oof. Julia Stiles. Uh, first Julia Stiles feature directorial debut. I guess. Let's get that out the way.

16:47Oti: Heaps of mansion based off Save you Save the Last Dance

16:51KT: in the pod. Yes. I believe her character's name was Kat in 10 Things I Hate About You. Maybe the screenplay is what she was writing. Mm, rest in Peace Heath Ledger. Um, but when, when she was. Continuing on those shenanigans. In 10 Things I Hate About You. Um, do you wanna say what worked? Let's start, let, let's, let's try a different approach. What worked for you? My love.

17:16Oti: I, I love the basis of the story. I loved the, I loved the fundamentals. I loved where I thought the movie was going. Mm-hmm. Uh, from the protagonist, I got what I got, the sense of what we were trying to go, what we were trying to uncover. And it was more me sitting and trying to root for her in a sort of. Uh, escapade to try and find love, albeit in a traditional way and a weird way in which they came to start off, which was like, Ooh, would you just. Go do that or people doing that now, I dunno, it felt very strange danger. But yeah, that's just me. Uh, but never take a man's takeout in

18:03KT: the middle of the night. Right? I was expecting Mr. T to pop up Kim feel, reference friends and lovers. Yeah. Make fun of another man's

18:13Oti: haircut. And this is the only movie where I agree with you about second male leads. That's what I was rooting for in this.

18:24KT: Yes. Welcome to the class. I was

18:26Oti: like, yes. Forget everything else. That's background noise.

18:30KT: Yeah.

18:31Oti: But you know, with romcoms, that was never the case. And I think where. Why I got infuriated was the plot twist.

18:45KT: Yeah.

18:46Oti: And I just couldn't vibe with it because you can't, you can't not, not root for it. Like you cannot be angry at that. You cannot have any other better reason than that. Like just the, it's

18:57KT: like that. It's like that South Park. Would you like to donate a dollar to charity? Yeah.

19:01Oti: Like saying it in the PA ain't you? Like tha.

19:06KT: I've only got $2 left. Leave me alone. What was that? You didn't want to donate a dollar to charity.

19:12Oti: Just say it in the PA. Just say it in the mic. It felt that way. It felt very, uh, manipulative. And I want people to be able to make choices and be in those.

19:28KT: Yeah.

19:29Oti: And consequences be damned, but not feel as if, or I. No, I can't feel away because of this. Yeah. Then I'm the bad guy, then I'm the dickhead.

19:40KT: Mm-hmm.

19:41Oti: Because I still feel away regardless of the reason, you know? Yeah. I wanted that for a protagonist. I wanted that for her. I wanted her to be, you know what? I'm going to choose my, my black man. Because that's how I feel.

19:58KT: So it didn't matter whether it a second and not because he's a black man. Okay.

20:03Oti: I had to say that,

20:05KT: um, it's interesting 'cause it felt like a screenplay that was written in the early two thousands. Mm. Like it had the high jinks and the choppiness. I, I, because, because at the end of the day, it doesn't feel unbelievable. I would not put it past people to move in these ridiculous ways. Mm-hmm. So it's not to say that I think this love story, um, you know, as, as, as on the tin, I wouldn't say that it's unbelievable that these, these events are unbelievable. But I would say that it leans a little bit tropey. Um. In English class a very long time ago, friends and lovers, uh, we did A Walk to Remember.

20:53KT: Mm-hmm. The Mandy Moore film. Mm-hmm. And then I guess more recently there's The Fault in Our Stars. You know what I mean? So there are these young adult romcom sort of stories. But I think when we lean more to, well, I guess Lovebirds is more of like a comedy. But you know, even if you have like the most recent, recent Bridget Jones, for example, you have love that is grounded in the triumph of what we go through. Mm-hmm. As opposed to the Scooby-Doo scrappy snacks. You know what I mean? Like we don't have to have a Patrick Dempsey high pitch voice rolling around in the mud. Wow. Yeah, that's the Bridget Jones. We will not be referencing friends and lovers. Um, Patrick Dempsey's the baby, by the way, when they say Bridget Jones's Baby, they're referring to Patrick Dempsey.

21:58KT: Um, but like I, there's definitely a sub genre of rom-coms where Wish You Were Here can fit in. It just sticks out and not in a good way. For the rom-coms that we have now. Yeah. I'm not saying it needs to be all dark like Midsommar, like as a rom-com, but, um, I think there's more of a groundedness in the rom-coms that we get now. Well, I guess we can always remember Julia Stiles from Orphan too. Hey, I've watched more than one film of Julia Stiles, Oti.

22:43Oti: Yeah.

22:45KT: All right, well let's finish off. This is a documentary called Every Little Thing. A sweet documentary about the intricacies of hummingbirds and complexities of humanity. Thank you to the team at Nixco.

23:02Oti: Tell me more. Intrigued,

23:05KT: are we?

23:06Oti: Yes.

23:09KT: Uh, so this is a documentary like essentially think of. Hummingbirds in Hollywood, I think was the tagline for it. Um, it follows a rehabber, I believe was the title. Um, her name's Terry and she, she's essentially the Cesar Millan. For hummingbirds. Oh, she doesn't,

23:41Oti: oh, South Park Cartman. Refer to South

23:43KT: Park if you didn't know. Uh, what, what sound and action I was alluding to friends and lovers, but, um, yeah, so it, it, it follows her. It's very much about her. I didn't realize there was so many hummingbirds, uh, in Hollywood, by the way. Oh. Um, but people would call and get advice. In some instances, the birds need a bit more help from some, a learned sort of, uh, experience. So they would, um, go to Terry and, you know, like for her to rehab, like bring them back to life. Evanescence, if you'll pardon the reference as the

24:23Oti: birds are depressed. Oh, this

24:26KT: isn't a Garfield comic, bro.

24:31Oti: Bring them to life. Like, are the hummingbirds not harming or what? What's happening?

24:37KT: You want a hammer?

24:41Oti: Because Oh, what, tell me, tell me what, what's, what's our process in bringing these buds to life? And what do you mean by bringing the buds to life?

24:49KT: It's Lemony Snicket, not Oti Persnickety. Can you just, yeah. So like there was one instance, and I don't necessarily think this is a spoiler 'cause you're just following her life. So I, I will explain one instance in the documentary just so you can understand. Um. Whether you are in on this or not is up to you, sir. I am here, I'm here to review the film. Um, but there's a moment where a family, um, bring a hummingbird to her because it's, it's, um, like it's feathers or disintegrating. Mm. And when she was giving them advice over the phone, she was talking about sugar water, but based on her experience, she knew that they were dousing. That little baby bird with sugar water. So much to the point.

25:49Oti: Oh, hummingbird got diabetes. Oh no.

25:53KT: Sweet. You can die. I better it.

25:54Oti: Oh no.

25:56KT: Yeah, walk around Hollywood with the etiquette of sugar wing. So treat this would first spark.

26:07Oti: So

26:07KT: are

26:07Oti: they clipping the wings

26:08KT: or something when it got so, so this is interesting and I guess it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this. So, um. S surprise to no one. This isn't a spoiler. You look at the trailer, it's a white woman. Mm-hmm. Um, and she goes, you can call it a rant. You can call it an impassioned speech. But she starts talking about this is what's wrong with people. You know, like how people just have a complete disregard for living things and they're selfish. How dare they do this to this hummingbird? And I was like, man, I hope she cares for all the humans. As much as she cares about these hummingbirds because she was really like, she was really feeling away. Which is fair, which is cool.

27:00KT: You know,

27:00Oti: how, how are you keeping hummingbirds though? Are they supposed to be like flying and just floating around?

27:07KT: Yeah. 'cause I wouldn't even think of hummingbirds being domesticated, but it was more just focusing on her, providing the care. Um, but yeah, so. It was moments like that you got a glimpse into her life, who she is. And then the documentary started focusing a bit more on her. Um, it's interesting. I will reference the Israel Adesanya doc, documentary that we watch mm-hmm. Where you, you wonder could we have gone further? And if we didn't. Was this the time to make it? And usually when we make these references, we also reference the Kurt Angle documentary because that was very raw and bare.

27:57KT: Mm-hmm. So I guess you could say this film wasn't about Terry, but she was the subject, um, to use the terms, she was the subject of the documentary and she kind of maybe almost talked about her upbringing. And how it affected her, and that's kind of why she gravitates towards the hummingbirds and looking after them. Um, how she never really felt accepted. It was a time of rock and roll in LA. Um, it was interesting because it never really set its foot. In where we are. Mm. It was more where she was, so it was interesting in that sort of way, kind of like the hummingbirds were like a tchotchkes, if that makes sense.

28:56Oti: Yeah, it does. Uh, man, let the hummingbirds free, um, and stop giving them diabetes for sure. Just from, based off what I've heard, that's definitely one of the recommendations I'd give.

29:13KT: Okay. I don't know. Who ask, are you still auditioning for Birdman in, in, uh, John Wick? Yeah. Ah, this was the most chaotic Ref Max. This was the most chaotic B-side Reference Max, the, the tethered version of For Your Reference. Uh, thank you so much friends and lovers for checking out the For Your Reference podcast. Uh, I personally, I don't know how you, what would be the point? 'cause I'm saying this at the end. I would personally recommend, uh, listening to another episode, especially once it gets to Oti in your sugar waters. Um, actually, do you wanna let our friends and lovers know what we're watching right now?

30:14Oti: Oh, we are watching

30:17KT: Common Side Effects.

30:19Oti: Yeah. Are you forgotten or we watching Common Side Effects?

30:23KT: If you remember, we did Death Stranding, friends and lovers. We did a review on Death Stranding. Um, so if you like Death Stranding, if you say you are weird, but you only like the weird things that cute hot people are saying, then you don't know what weird shit is going. Watch Common Side Effects.

30:39Oti: Oh, and we are watching Dark Winds.

30:43KT: We're watching Dark Winds season three. Friends and lovers, we up

30:46Oti: so good. So good.

30:49KT: Keep the white devil

30:50Oti: away from me and that sugar. What a

30:53KT: man. Um, also Grosse Pointe Garden Society.

30:59Oti: I don't know why it has such low ratings. I'm having fun with it. It's enjoyable. Is it? Yeah. I guess it's not like a sex or something. I'm like, bro,

31:09KT: well we better review it then. Mm, I would. Without watching Desperate Housewives, I would say it's a mix of Desperate Housewives and Why Women Kill. Yeah. And girls. Girls, girls? Or is that, is that me searching for Christina Hendricks somewhere else?

31:26Oti: Yeah.

31:29KT: Or maybe it's just called girls.

31:30Oti: It's called girls.

31:31KT: Okay.

31:35Oti: But I can see why you added extra two girls.

31:41KT: We both search the same thing, friends and lovers. Um, on. That's not what they mean by sugar waters. Oti drown me in the sugar waters of the mpo. Uh, on Twitter, Instagram, Bluesky and Threads. We're @foryourrefpod.

32:02Oti: Write us an email, hello@fyrpodcast.com.

32:06KT: We're also on Sugar Water Sugar Daddy podcast if you'd like to leave a rating and review and we'll see you guys. It should be the Spies Awards. Next, are we gonna be on the red carpet, Oti? We are. We up?