The Last of Us – Endure and Survive

Full transcript of The Last of Us – Endure and Survive.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household and it's another video game adaptation, Oti. It's definitely not our first Mortal Kombat would take that title. It might be the second. Uh, it's gonna be a whole lot of fun and you're also gonna need to be held at the same time. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and firefly lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host KT. Browse the joke book of moral quandary in a world that is falling apart.

0:47Oti: Mm-hmm.

0:47KT: Endure and survive with The Last of Us this week.

0:53Oti: Nice.

0:55KT: Woohoo. Let's get into general stats and information. This show came out of HBO, um, and was released in January of 2023. Carrying on from the actual video game. We have creator Neil Druckmann, um, as well as Craig Mazin, credited as Rios as. Directors. Um, and we've got a whole bunch of directors, obviously a whole crew. Um, HBO also has those features where they go behind the scenes. So it was kind of cool to see the designs of the clickers, even though I couldn't really look them in the eye. I appreciate the art, um, and the creativity that goes behind it. In way of cast, we have Pedro Pascal, Bella Ramsey, Nico Parker, 10 Dway by 10. Dway, Gabriel Luna, as well as Anna Torv. All right. Well, kick us off, Oti. Um, maybe even, cause I'm aware that you have played the video game, feel free to pepper that in and just your general sort of first impressions, I guess while we are here.

2:02KT: Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. Resistance. Resistance. Resistance.

2:09Oti: Wow. Like the most cinematic show on TV at the moment. Um, I think what they've done with this is elevate the game to a level where I thought it wasn't even possible. Um, they made some creative decisions because it's not copy paste of what the game is, and the game is quite good. Um, but I was, you know, usually when you. Game adaptations. You, you're kind of apprehensive because you don't really know what you're going to get, but wow, I do not expect this from them. The cinematography, the design, you could tell, the attention to detail paid into this, the homage to the game, it's, it go, it even just goes beyond homage at this point.

2:47Oti: You know, they've made it very clear that they wanted to incorporate as many things as possible. And to keep true to form to the source material as well. But that doesn't mean that they're restricted to with their creative decisions because they explore. And one of the better episodes I think for me that we got to see the Frank and Bill one.

3:09KT: Yeah.

3:10Oti: You know, it just tells you how far they can go. And I am just here as a fan. Eager pollution and Wow.

3:20KT: I think, well, I, I guess before I give my first impressions, do you wanna say whether you are Bill or Frank?

3:25Oti: Oh, probably Frank, to be honest.

3:30KT: Yeah, I think I'm. I'm thinking I'm Bill, I'm still carrying on from John Wick. Um, friends and lovers. Uh, I fully enjoyed this series. I was not aware, um, no, I think you even tried to play this game with me and I'm like, Ooh, too scary. I just kind of let you play the game. The genre of post-apocalyptic, pseudo-zombie isn't necessarily new, but what I loved about this series is how it was narrative driven. There was a lot of focus on the building of the, you know, the dynamics between Joel and Ellie and how they interact with the world.

4:21Oti: Yeah, and I think that was done so beautifully that you could tell that every cause has an effect. Oh yeah. You know, it could be as subtle as just a look or a glance engine oil come and but them in the US later on, or forge their bonds even deeper and quicker.

4:39KT: Oh. The brother will bite you in the ass.

4:40Oti: Like just seeing Joel and Ellie's relationship transverses throughout the whole season. It's, you know, playing the game was one thing, but watching it on screen just makes it even more palpable.

4:53KT: Oh yeah, absolutely. Um, we do have some themes, friends and lovers. So grab yourself a snack, um, and a beverage because we are going to get into it. The first thing that's not necessarily a theme, but I do wanna address is the review bombing of it all. You know, we talked about it in The Boys, which is such a ridiculous, because it wasn't released in a way that the fans wanted. They review. You know, even Marvel entities and that sort of thing. They probably, these fans probably will make great parents since they like to tear down things they love. But I wanna talk about the review bombing, um, with The Last of Us, just to get your general sort of thoughts, Oti. Um, because the storyline of Bill and Frank made fans uncomfortable.

5:41KT: Um, I think, I think they were gay in the game, but it. Specifically like a story that was focused on as far as I understand. Um, but I kind of just wanna get your thoughts on the review bombing. Maybe not review bombing as a culture, but just review bombing in this particular instance.

5:59Oti: That's a shit. I think what they did with our episode just made it clear to everyone that they stick the claim on Toronto, divide as much as they can so that even if you've played the game, don't expect that everything you'll see is what you, you know, oh, upload the game and I know how it's going to end. Yeah. To some degree, yes, but they still are not afraid to veer off that. Yeah. And I think that episode stood as a, as a monument and as a trophy to that, which I. Fully and wholeheartedly embraced in the game. Spoiler in the game. Frank is already dead and it's sort of in passing, you know when they're talking to, cause I think Bill and Joel were friends from back in the day and he just mentions it in passing.

6:41KT: But we want love now. Exactly. We want love in the present.

6:45Oti: What better way show the humanity of, of living in a post-apocalyptic world?

6:51KT: mm-hmm.

6:52Oti: Than intrinsically going through the lives of the people who are there and the relationships they form the gods they've built up. How they get torn down, how they interact with other humans in this world, because that's the story, you know. And I think to some degree the clickers are there and they'll all be, always be fucking clickers, you know?

7:13KT: And the bloaters.

7:14Oti: And the bloaters. But that's not the story. We are humans and we wanna focus on human set of stories and what transpires and everything that transpires around that. You have to just tiptoe around the clickers because a, don't forget, they're still there and they still pose a threat.

7:31KT: Oh, I do have a delicious theme about survival in general. Um, but let me just capture off my thoughts on this. Like just grow the fuck up, like essentially is what I wanna say, um, in regards to that. Not that we need to coddle the antis and the phobes, um, but it was a very light touch story. Um, you know, if that's what you are icking about or, you know, so scared about review bombing for. Like all of that huffing and puffing for that one little kiss. But anyway, um, I, I'm not here to coddle, but yeah, like, just grow the fuck up. I, I don't imagine you're listening to this review, um, because we are an open space, but we're also here to challenge you if you haven't challenged yourself, friends and lovers.

8:20KT: Um, but let's get into the actual themes, um, of today's review. Um, I wanna talk about the. In general, the post-apocalyptic sort of genre, is it something that you clamor onto and I guess if it is, whether it is something that you clamor onto or not, where does this show stack up?

8:40Oti: Oh, I, the last postapocalyptic sort of show that I watched was The Walking Dead.

8:47KT: Yeah, well, you, we couldn't not talk about The Walking

8:51Oti: You know, I, I was, One of the biggest fans and I, I sort of tapped out much later and I couldn't see my way back in. You know, I, I, I know that it's sort of ending, or I don't know if it's even finished already. But I'll probably try and catch up on the last season just to have that closure. Yeah. But I did not, I, I view, I view this differently from what The Walking Dead just because of what I played the game and I know the characters and the story that's so beautifully told.

9:22Oti: Even playing the second game. Um, they've remade this so many times, so the story is there and it's rich. I didn't have qualms or I didn't think I've had any, I trepidations about going into this world, even though I felt a bit fatigued from The Walking Dead.

9:39KT: Yeah. Well, I, I, I imagine The Walking Dead. It, it kind of, it's more about the world building and this is just me assuming, um, it's more about giving fabric to the story as opposed to character growth. Because if it's going on for that many season, I don't know. Once you start having babies in this like story, is it really that much of a threat or does it just become normal life at that point in time? All the corals out

10:08Oti: Mm-hmm.

10:09KT: I know a pop culture, Oti. I don't have to watch everything.

10:12Oti: Wow.

10:14KT: Um, I don't remember World War Z, but you know, there, there are so many different, like post-apocalyptic, um, you know, sort of films and TV shows. And again, I can pretty much latch onto anything. But I, I guess the core is finding that resonance. Um, and, you know, those, exploring those themes of humanity or perhaps the depravity and lack of humanity, right? And we explore that through. The Last of Us because at the end of the day there is a grounding of the dynamic, um, between Joel and Ellie. And that's really where I find a lot of my resonance because that's def, it's not necessarily a genre that I would go outta my way to watch. Hmm. Cloverfield I think we enjoyed the John Goodman one, but you know what I mean. There are a lot of these sorts of genre film and TV shows, LA.

11:05KT: Um, where you can really get lost in the world. But yeah, I really love what they did with the show and you know, we're seeing this, you know, Stahelski directing for John Wick instalments. We see Don Mancini across decades in Chucky, and we also see the creators of the video game working on the TV show. Like it's so important to carry on the ip.

11:32Oti: A hundred percent.

11:33KT: Well, let's move on to the next theme. I wanna talk about survival because there's different levels of survival. We've talked a lot about the History Channel's Alone. Um, and there's also a premiere of the Australian series of Alone, which hopefully we will check out as well. Um, but we talk about in that show in particular, or even just in general, there's two levels of survival, right? There's physical survival where you need to make sure that you've got food, shelter, and water, you know, your meeting, your physical sort of needs. And then after you get to a point where you are secure from your physical needs, then becomes like the psychological survival.

12:15Oti: Mm-hmm.

12:15KT: So I guess you could compare that to The Last of Us where the immediate sort of survival is getting away from the clickers and the bloaters, but the psychological survival is navigating other fucking humans.

12:29Oti: Yeah. And true to form in this sort of shows, it's the zombies and the clickers are usually the byproduct of what the bigger threat threat is. Yeah. Because once society falls, everyone is so the hu it feels like humans just become even more serious. Yeah. And they are the threat.

12:49KT: Those that sustain power through post-apocalyptic sort of scenarios are probably the worst sort of people. I don't know, friends and lovers. If you've watched Terrifier, I'll do what Art did to a lot of the victims and then I'll just roll around and. The, um, sort of clicker blood and then they won't be able to detect me, or is that a Walking Dead thing? Not a Last of Us there,

13:14Oti: Yeah,

13:14KT: because I would rather chance it with the clickers and the bloaters than the actual humans. True because even you know, a bit later on in season one, we meet Tommy and can you believe after all of that, after all of that buildup, Tommy's a fucking bitch. Sorry, what does he look like? A bitch.

13:35Oti: Why do you call him a bitch?

13:37KT: He wasn't riding as hard as he should have.

13:40Oti: He is. He's, he's found someone to love. He

13:43KT: Oh, she's, she's the, she's the king bitch.

13:47Oti: Wow. Wow, you reckon?

13:50KT: I said it. You can agree with it.

13:52Oti: He's got a baby on the way. He's got his life set out to him. You can't blame me for not jumping tents in.

13:59KT: I dunno. And it's again, like imagine being out there trying to survive and then you come into a community and you are like, Ugh, I don't want to, you know, I don't wanna be bound by these sort of rules either.

14:13Oti: I hear you, but

14:14KT: not, not to the level of the creepy predator man that was coming after Ellie, but you find these places that have established sort of rules, um, and it's like, no thanks. I'd rather just, just leave me outside. And we also see this with Kathleen, you know, as a leader as well. And they, they also had their rules. We are going to talk about, um, Henry and, you know, all of the situations in regards to that with Sam. But yeah, I don't know. Wh what do you think, where, where do you prefer to be?

14:48Oti: I think everyone wants to find that community, especially in the world. You know, even Joel and Ellie wants to find that. It's just that they feel like they have to go to achieve their mission before anything else, before they can think of settling down. But that's the goal, essentially, to find somewhere safe where you can just put your feet up, get regular supply of food and water, and live your. No one wants to be out there in the jungle fighting clickers, left, right, and center. Or even fighting fellow humans all the

15:16KT: Well, that's why I think we established that I'm Bill and you're Frank

15:20Oti: Well, Bill's. Bill's living his best life.

15:25KT: Yeah, exactly. Away from other people. I think that's exactly the way to do it. As soon as you have other people, there becomes a society. Then you get hierarchies and nonsense and nonsense and nonsense. Let me have my steak dinner and.

15:39Oti: Okay.

15:39KT: Anyway, that's what I would do personally. Um, let's move on to moral quandaries. Um, I've got a couple of examples here. Obviously we're focusing mostly on Joel and Ellie. I wanna talk about the moment where we see Ellie shooting for in brackets the first time. I'm not referring to Riley, I'm referring to the moment where we see her shooting and it rattles.

16:06Oti: Yeah, you could see that he left a, he left a mark. You know, she was affected by it, rightly so. Um, and I think this is another good thing. I think, if I remember correctly from the game, Ellie does kill that person.

16:21KT: Okay. As in like, is it like Telltale where you can choose, or

16:25Oti: No,

16:25KT: way, she's going to shoot.

16:27Oti: Kills that person. But in this, it's interesting. Ellie does shoot him, but he doesn't die. And we still continue hearing, screaming and him screaming for his mother. Yeah. And Joel has to finish it off. And that's, those are the sort of subtleties that just create that sort of depth. Yeah. I create that emotional pulling even more in this show.

16:50KT: Yeah. But I didn't, mm. I I didn't care for it. And you know, even in the lead up to this, Joel kept saying, you don't need a gun. You don't need a gun, bruh. Of all scenarios. And I'm a very non Randy American, but out of all scenarios, we're in a post-apocalyptic world. You kind of need to tool up.

17:11Oti: Oh bro.

17:12KT: she becomes a liability at that point. If she's not protected,

17:15Oti: he's dealing with the loss. He, he still hasn't gotten over the fact that he, he lost Sarah and he couldn't do anything about it. He's traumatized his, his is bloody PTSD to the war.

17:27KT: So do we endanger Ellie because he hasn't gotten over it, or he isn't working through it? Or is it acknowledging that they are two different people?

17:34Oti: It's hard for him to separate. It's hard, and he, he doesn't even realize he treats Ellie as if he's treating Sarah. He doesn't realize that off the bat, and he has to sort of sit down and you know, it, it comes slowly to him. And in that instance, you know, it just makes sense for him to want to protect Ellie and just, you are a kid, be a kid. You don't have to deal with shooting people because that's not what you do in this.

17:58KT: Mm. I I think we both have a different understanding of the world and what is required in this world.

18:04Oti: No, no. What's required and what Joel thinks is right, are different.

18:09KT: No, we both agree with that, but I'm saying she should be prepared for the world. Obviously we allow you to see the, um, episode with Riley, which we'll come to. Um, but I don't know. I think it's, it's like upholding morals that don't even apply to anything. They're just floating in the air for your bloaters and clickers to come.

18:30Oti: Well, Joel isn't, isn't someone that's innocent by any stretch of the imagination. He's killed heaps of people. He's done a lot of shit to survive. So him,

18:40KT: I don't think he should be evaluated with modern real life values.

18:46Oti: Well, the best person to, to, to, to feel that. I don't want this life to be for Ellie. Mm-hmm. You know, I know how it feels to do this shit, and I want to fight as long as I can to make sure that Ellie doesn't have to live that. I think that's honorable.

19:02KT: I don't know, for someone practical, it, it is a bit naive to operate that way.

19:06Oti: Man. You want people to just start, they're fully actualized. They're like, they're super like, Ooh, we're in this world. I'm here to do a job. Do a job, take the gun. No, you can't get just the state in every, in every show.

19:21KT: Yes, please.

19:24Oti: People actually have to grow. Character development is key.

19:28KT: I'm not even saying that he had to be fully realized. I'm just saying therein lies the qualm, um, and the moral quandary when we see Ellie shooting for the first time. So what I was saying was she should have been equipped and resourced, you know, in order to be able to handle the situation. That's the first part, but the second more compelling part of this particular, uh, moral quandary. Is that I didn't care for the added guilt that she was getting after she did it. She did it because she had to, but then it was like reinforced, especially through Joel about the decision that she made.

20:05KT: And it's like, bruh, exactly like you are saying, he's been through so fucking much, at least I personally, as a viewer, am not judging him. So it's like, why are you trying to transfer that onto Ellie

20:16Oti: Sarah?

20:18KT: Ugh.

20:21Oti: Oh, that's the answer to most of your questions, mate.

20:24KT: No, I get that, but I feel like it's beyond that in this, in, in what's been delivered in this show. I would say it's beyond that. It, it wasn't like a, a massive sort of qualm. Um, but it was just something that I was like, mm, she's a fucking kid. Like she's a fucking kid. And she was saving Joel. She did what she had to do to survive,

20:47Oti: You know, the minute she said that, you know what came to my mind? Mm-hmm. Lip gloss. Yeah. And I was like, bro, you're saying she's just a kid, she

20:55KT: so hang on. You're referencing our Air Force One

20:59Oti: Yeah.

20:59KT: Yeah. Where there was like a 12 year old and I was saying she should be like, she shouldn't even be making slum tourism vol volunteer like sort of statements. She should just be worrying about lip gloss. That's what you're talking about, right?

21:15Oti: Yeah. Okay, so you have Ellie here. Why shouldn't Ellie just be worrying about lip gloss then?

21:19KT: But that makes no sense because in Air Force One, because in Air Force One, she was the president's daughter and they weren't under attack

21:29Oti: that rights bro. Do under attack on the plane. She

21:33KT: bruh, she's a fucking Navi. The way she was navigating that, why would you, that's, that's not even a tangible example. Thank you very much. No.

21:42Oti: If, if kids are allowed to be kids in what instance then at least apply the, apply our fully.

21:48KT: You've got barnacles latching onto human bodies, bruh, this is not the time. This is not the time to be putting on your lip gloss, okay? This is not the time. Absolutely. I'm saying that she shouldn't have been guilted for something, especially Joel should be understanding of. That's what I'm saying.

22:08Oti: All right, man. Fair. I I hear you. I disagree, but I hear you.

22:14KT: Your disagreeing is louder than your hearing, but that's okay.

22:17Oti: That's the only way I do.

22:18KT: actually. Um, so the next moral quandary that I have is Henry snitching on the leader of the resistance. Oh. You got a lot of black tack. So I, I feel like I know where this is going to go. Um, but yeah, sound off my love. I

22:38Oti: I don't even have a lot of black acks in this, to be honest. Okay. But he did what he had to do to protect Sam.

22:45KT: Oh, interesting.

22:51Oti: If I added the taxi, I would've said he did nothing wrong. See the differe.

22:56KT: growth. Growth outta the side of your neck like a barnacle? Um, no, because Okay, because Henry was older, but he wasn't much older. Like, these aren't adults. Right. Or at least he's a young adult, if that's what you wanna say. So you are saying that Henry made some hard decisions, but Ellie isn't allowed or afforded the same grace.

23:19Oti: No, Ellie is allowed to make hard decisions. I, I never said that she shouldn't. What I'm saying with Henry is he's protecting Sam who's deaf in this world. Yeah. Um, not in the game, but in this world. Sam is deaf

23:32KT: And Keivonn Woodard is in real life.

23:35Oti: Yeah.

23:36KT: that behind the scenes episode was so sweet and so heartwarming.

23:39Oti: not always remember how to sign endure and survive.

23:42KT: Yeah,

23:42Oti: Mm, he has to go above and protect Sam. And that's super understandable. You know, giving up the lead of the resistance. Yes. He might be shitty, but he had to do it.

23:52KT: I agree.

23:53Oti: I thought you'd be coming for me.

23:55KT: No, I actually agree with you because I don't apply. Maybe your Guillermo del Toro dogma Catholicism values into a post-apocalyptic fantasy television show.

24:11Oti: And that's why I said in as much as he did that he should also live with the consequences of him being hunted down.

24:18KT: Oh, boo boo.

24:21Oti: Of course, Kathleen would seek revenge.

24:23KT: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. She was the embodiment of the meme. Fuck them kids. Bro. I was like, you're going a bit hard my friend. Like, calm down kids didn't do anything to you. Um oh, but, oh, I, hmm. Cause you can talk about the resistance, you can talk about the greater good, but that doesn't do anything to Henry when he is trying to save Sam.

24:56Oti: Yeah. And I think anyone in that position, Joel will give up a million people before he let anything happen to Ellie. And he did he

25:06KT: we say that at end?

25:06Oti: Yeah, he took out the whole Fireflies. So, of course, of course we should, we should be able to understand and, and sympathize or even empathize with what Henry had to do.

25:20KT: Yes, exactly. Same as Ellie. Thank you.

25:23Oti: Yeah, a hundred percent.

25:24KT: Oh, we've come round. Have we?

25:26Oti: I never s I never gave Ellie slack for anything. I was just telling you, you should judge both things equally, if that's your trail of thought.

25:34KT: Okay. Saying both circumstances are equal. Okay.

25:37Oti: Wow.

25:40KT: Um, the next theme that I have is who is the biggest bear, the clicker slash bloater or humans?

25:48Oti: It's always humans in this, right? Because the adventures take them to meet a lot of people, different communities and what they do to survive. We get to see this encounter with, um, Ellie meeting David, you know, and David is this leader who pretends to see I'm for the people, I'll lead the people. But you know, he, to be fair, he is doing everything he can. Feed the masses. Yeah. And as long as, I don't know, they're eating humans.

26:17KT: You know what though?

26:18Oti: Mm.

26:19KT: I, the, in that particular episode, I actually appreciated the framing. I, I was kind of hoping we would explore it a bit more, um, throughout the season, however, David makes a sentiment, um, along the lines of they needed religion, so I gave them religion. But you can have the truth, Also must be sad. Hopefully he's not typecast, but you know, you don't want to constantly have roles to be the pert priest teacher

26:52Oti: He's a puppet and priest. Red regarded in there.

26:58KT: Okay. Catholic boy. Um, but I really love that I don't necessarily see time or space that they could have put it in the first season, um, to really get to explore that theme. But I liked it because it was like, I'm doing this because they need it. Like, this isn't necessarily like I'm not, um, getting high off my own George Clooney fat supply.

27:22Oti: Yeah. Yeah. It has to do like, he felt lonely in there knowing that he can't really share the struggles of survival with anyone else. Yeah.

27:31KT: Yeah, but did it have to be a teenage girl?

27:34Oti: No, he, he saw something in Ellie. Every other person sees, you know, there's leadership quality in there. Oh, what are you even trying to say? I'm not justifying shit. He's a creep. And that was fucking weird. Yeah. Um, but we, we do get to see semblance of him trying to lead this ungrateful people who don't even know. What he does to get them fed. Yeah. And they feel so entitled that

28:01KT: No, but if we were consuming humans, I would wanna know it as well.

28:05Oti: Oh, but you could tell by, well he had to lead by with an iron fist. Cause you get to see that sort of cloak unraveled towards the end. Yeah. When he gets to. If there's any murmurings or everyone, anyone tries to go against him, that's when he'll turn and be like, bro, step back. Yeah. Any other time he's like, Ooh, I'm your friend. Let's do it this way. Mm-hmm. No, but I think that was, that was one of the best scenes, Ellie just going to town on him.

28:35KT: yeah. Oh, absolutely agree.

28:37Oti: But then that has the biggest consequence in the show and for Ellie

28:41KT: Um, we, we are getting to the end of this episode, but before we do, we haven't really talked about Riley at all. Um, and Riley is a pivotal, at least character motivation. Um, for Ellie. I think this is one of the first instances where we is. Saw Ellie just be herself. Um, you know, sometimes, unless it's, um, Secret in Their Eyes, I think we settled is the film title. Um, but unless it's got Chiwetel with a little white stripe of hair, I don't know what timeline we're in. So, you know, it was right off, you know, Joel getting injured and then it cut to her being in some sort of school, some sort of, you know, I think she was in the Firefly sort of camp.

29:23KT: Right. Um, and this is, See Ellie being a kid in, in, in, I guess in the, any sort of normal word semblance, um, in this world, her being a kid. Mm. And Riley really brought that out in her. And it was sad. It was, sorry, it wasn't the Fireflies, it was the. You know, the sanction sort of schools and that sort of thing. Um, and it was, it was beautiful, but it was sad because we knew, we never saw Riley in the story, so we knew this wasn't going to end well. Is Riley in the game?

29:57KT: do they have a queer storyline? Yeah. Okay. Bella Ramsey, um, being non-binary also brought some, you know, extra sort of context and pretty much said grow the fuck up as well. Um, but yeah, I, I really appreciated this storyline

30:13Oti: and I loved how it expounded on Ellie's motivations and everything she's done up to the, up to then, you know? Yeah. It, it made us understand what motivates her or makes her fight. Um, because it's all for no, she promised, you know, Riley was going to leave. Mm. To the point where she'd convinced Riley to stay back. Riley feeling like she didn't have a papacy and having found a reason with the Fireflies. Mm-hmm. But it just gave Ellie that much depth going in, you know, and then when we see her fighting tooth and nail to save Joel, it just not just drives tears into bloody eyes, man.

30:53KT: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. A hundred percent. And like you said, it really contextualize and I think it'll really inform what it looks like moving forward. Um, just quickly, I wanted to talk about the resistance. I wanted to talk about the Fireflies. We haven't even talked about Marlene at all. We also see the storyline with, um, Marlene. Ellie's mom who played Ellie in the game, I believe.

31:17Oti: Mm. Yeah. And Merle plays Marlene in the game as well. So,

31:22KT: yeah.

31:23Oti: Uh, man, she, she had a diffi difficult task in this. It was a no win for her, really. Um, on one hand she has been, she's promised to take care of Ellie and never let anything happen to her. But then when she realizes that Ellie has potentially the cure, She could be the cure to save humanity, then she's left with this one task where she has to do what's right or what she thinks is right. Okay. And I think most people would do that as well. And I think Ellie would want that as well.

31:57KT: Okay. Um, I do wanna finish off by talking about the last episode, but I think what I wanted to say about the resistance is it's so important to have the presence of a resistance in these sort of TV Um, you know, we didn't really get to talk about. Either, um, but she kind of just served as the emotional sort of catapult for Joel's character.

32:21Oti: Mm-hmm.

32:21KT: Mm-hmm. Like she, you could see the importance of her, but she kind of served her story and I don't know if that's how it works in the game as well. Um, but we kind of got to where we needed to go because of that sacrifice.

32:33Oti: Yeah, she definitely played a bigger role in the shows than she did in the game.

32:38KT: Oh, well there you go.

32:42Oti: Not Laura level from American Gods.

32:45KT: Oh, don't even get me started, Oti. Let's finish off with the last episode of this season. Um, I was riding on a high, Oti. I loved every single moment, even the very sad emotional es actually, especially all of the really sad emotional moments. However, I really didn't care for the finale of this show. It's not, it's not frustrating enough for me to discard or to. The, the, I guess, sort of goodwill and, you know, emotions that were built over the season. However, we need to address this, Oti. So you are telling me, because let's say, um, okay, so, so Bella's 14 years old. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You are telling me in 14 years, Of all the babies that are being born that none of them have the same special blood that Bella has really?

33:38Oti: Maybe they are, but how do you communicate? It's not like you can just pick up your cell phone and be like, Hey, we found someone with a cure over here.

33:45KT: No, but there's a connected network and I find that highly improbable. That they haven't happened across, especially if the resistance is fully staunch and they believe in the greater good over an individual. You are telling me that they weren't doing little baby tests on the side. If you'll pardon the pun,

34:04Oti: most of them don't even know how Ellie got to be this way,

34:08KT: You see what I'm saying? I find it very implausible that no one would've had a baby across the travels in 14 years, that they couldn't have already done a test. And the reason why I say that the reason why it's so important for me to establish this point is because it breaks the tension for me. Because at that point when Joel said, fuck you guys, I'm taking her, I'm like, fucking, you leave Cowboy. I was like, you don't need to be there. Go and find another baby.

34:40Oti: I hear you. But I don't know. I, I, I feel like information like that is, well, information is hard to come by in this world as.

34:50KT: Uh-huh.

34:50Oti: So adding an extra layer of, oh, we found someone else who might have the same characteristics as Ellie is a bit too much,

35:00KT: but you see how ready they were to sacrifice her. So who's to say they wouldn't sacrifice babies that didn't display it, but on the potential that they might? That's what I'm saying, because I was fully there for Joel to, you know, Look after Ellie. So for me, them being like, oh, she's the golden child, and we'll never find another one again. We don't even know if this is gonna work, but we're going to detrimentally ruin her so she won't survive after this procedure. I'm like, fuck off man. Leave this pseudo, um, father and daughter's relationship.

35:36Oti: You'll never make the tough decisions in, in, in the wild, eh.

35:40KT: No, and I also wouldn't, um, sacrifice myself for other people. So I'll live a very long life.

35:48Oti: Okay, Bill.

35:50KT: Okay, my Frank, I was going to ask you what you think will happen, but it seems like you already will know what will happen.

35:57Oti: Yeah, my biggest shock was how fast they went through the first game. Oh, okay. And I was like, wow. Cause I, I, I'm hoping that they continue exploring different angles and going against the grain, getting other people angry.

36:15KT: Were there other aspects of the game that you didn't see, that you hoped to see?

36:19Oti: No, not really. Not necessarily. I, I just enjoy this wholeheartedly and Okay. To the point where I cannot wait for season two. It's one of already the best shows on TV ever.

36:32KT: Okay.

36:32Oti: Um, and wow. Who knew Naughty Dog and HBO would give us this amazing thing one adaptation that actually is just as good as the game

36:45KT: Asha.

36:46Oti: Mm-hmm.

36:47KT: I love that. Thank you friends and lovers for joining us another week in the For Your Reference household. We're gonna finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference, Oti.

36:57Oti: Oh, uh, this is a younger me sort of reference, so I'd recommend you watch Walking Dead. It started off really strongly. Um, if you can finish it, uh, I'll join you on the last season.

37:12KT: All right. Making promises your ass needs to check then.

37:15Oti: Mm-hmm.

37:16KT: Um, not necessarily within this post-apocalyptic sort of world, but it's definitely in the sci-fi distended from reality. And also cuz I'm just very excited. I'm going to reference the shining light of my world, Harold Perrineau from

37:35Oti: Oh, nice. You do wanna go to go lost?

37:38KT: If you would like Oti to get lost on Twitter and Instagram, we're @ForYourRefPod.

37:42Oti: fuck, write us an email, hello@fyrpodcast.com.

37:45KT: We're also on Survival from Humans Podcast, if you'd like to leave a rating and review and we'll see you guys next week.

37:52Oti: See y'all.