The King of Comedy – Appetisers Only

Full transcript of The King of Comedy – Appetisers Only.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, but more importantly, it is another year around the podcast sun. Oti, happy five years to our proverbial podcast baby, For Your Reference. We are very excited. This one is for all of the Reference Degustation friends and lovers. Thank you for joining us on our journey.

0:23KT: If you've been satiated, you've been to the tasting menus of.

0:47KT: Hayao Miyazaki, Taika Waititi, Quentin Jerome Tarantino, as well as Takashi Miike. I am very excited for the first course and for what I understand will be a very experimental tasting compared to the other parts of the modern Scorsese menu. To satiate the rest of you, friends and lovers, we have King of Comedy.

0:53KT: Goodfellas, Aviator, The Irishman, who I'm already needing an intermission, as well as Killers of the Flower Moon, pull your seat out, adorn your napkin and open your mouth for some tasty morsels, friends and lovers, let's get on with the show.

1:16KT: Hey, friends and lovers, and welcome to the fifth Reference Degustation 2024.

1:23KT: We're doing it big. Yes, we are.

1:39KT: The big mandem, a month long celebration of sizzling Scorsese cinema. I am very excited. I guess we can talk about our Scorsese experience, in a moment, Oti. Enter the delulu foyer for an appetiser only treat and broadcasted national apology.

1:48KT: Take the awful stuff in your life and make it funny with King of Comedy this week.

1:55Oti: Not Kings of Comedy, King of Comedy.

1:59KT: As Oti asked many times, are you sure this the one? Rest in love and peace and power, Bernie Mac. I think that's the only one we acknowledge. Okay.

2:10KT: General stats and information. This is also interesting because for a lot of the directors, um, that we've covered, most of them were involved in the writing of, so I guess we'll see, um, how many Scorsese is involved in, but director Martin Scorsese.

2:27KT: Writer Paul D. Zimmerman, who I was looking at his credits, the most interesting, and I think the most tangential to King of Comedy was, uh, credited writing of 50 episodes of Sesame Street. I don't know how learned you are, Oti, but in these Twitter streets, Elmo very innocently asked how people were going, and people trauma dumped on the poor thing.

2:50KT: He did ask. Yeah, which is very fitting, um, for today's episode released in December of 1982. So after Taxi Driver, um, a budget of 20 million and a world wide gross of 2.5 million. We usually, I know. We usually don't even do box office stats anymore, but I feel like it might be related. Um, I guess more relevant to the other one.

3:19KT: So that's why I'm mentioning it here. It was also nominated for a lot of awards. Um, and it won best screenplay, um, 1984 BAFTA. Okay. Martin Scorsese also said he thinks that this was Robert De Niro's best performance under his direction.

3:38Oti: Yeah, I'd agree if Taxi Driver was the fast one.

3:40KT: Hey, oh, you don't need Jodie Foster to figure out that mystery.

3:47KT: Um, but yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Friends and lovers.

3:50KT: Thank you to our patrons, long suffering, loving patrons, um, that have contributed to common and recurring themes in the filmography. Um, you know, it's those tasting notes that you feel throughout all of the courses, um, that we do for Scorsese, but before we get into that, let's just do our general first impressions. Oti, I don't know what that smile means. Is that a good or a bad thing?

4:19Oti: It's, it's good.

4:22Oti: King of Comedy shines with its unparalleled storytelling. Timeless and captivating, it's a testament to cinema that remains thoroughly enjoyable.

4:31KT: Ooh, can I copy your quote? I love that. That, that is absolutely spot on, but let me, let me send my inferior, um, negative Michelin hat to you. Scorsese and De Niro offer a mirror reflective of celebrity and thirst for fame through the charming delusion in King of Comedy.

4:51KT: Oh, no, no, don't do that. Like I'm the fast food version of your quote.

5:01KT: Well, while we're here, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. I can take a hint. I can take a hint. I can take a motherfucking hint. Apparently. I have a lot to say, um, you know, mostly in our Patreon, the veil of our Patreon. Um, we have covered a couple of Scorsese films, um, including Taxi Driver as well as The Departed.

5:26KT: Um, and we'll come to that in a second, but I just want to get like your general thoughts and obviously we can go into spoilers now.

5:32KT: Um, what were your general thoughts on King of Comedy, like leading up to potential sort of apprehension and like, I just want to hear your journey, my love.

5:41Oti: So, a lot of the times that I've gone back to watch movies that I loved as a kid.

5:46Oti: The Departed? Yes. I've been thoroughly disappointed. And this time, I'd never watched King of Comedy. To me, I thought there was only one movie called King of Comedy. Forget the April and King. But, when I watched this, It took me aback as to how the hell I've never watched this up until this point. Mm hmm. I fell in love with what he did and especially for that time, it felt quite different.

6:15Oti: It felt ahead of its time. Mm hmm.

6:17Oti: It felt as if it's, as if it's predicting a future or, or, or narrating something that how obsessed we are with this celeb nature. Yeah, you know, and if it was bad, but bad luck that back then, imagine it now, it's, it's timeless, it's relevant up until today and oh my God, I, I just love this movie.

6:46KT: I am blown away by. You know, I thought I could never Scorsese love again, friends and lovers. I thought I had hung up my hat, um, in regards to living in the world of Scorsese. Because, again, I didn't care for The Departed. I didn't care for Taxi Driver, which I think Taxi Driver might be one of the ones. If I watch again, I might appreciate on a different level.

7:12KT: Um, The Departed. No, thank you. I don't need to watch that again. Shut up. I learned I would watch again. I think Oti's put that in the bin. Um, I just, I think I had an understanding based off of those films. And we had watched The Irishman as well. Um, I think I had an understanding of what I thought Scorsese films would be.

7:33KT: So I'm like, okay, I'm good fam.

7:35KT: Like I've tasted a few and I'm good, but what was offered in King of Comedy is an experience that I'm so glad that I had. And I'm sad and I'm mourning that I will never be able to experience it for the first time again. I loved the groundedness in the core premise of a man wanting to be seen.

7:55KT: You know, we just talked about Dream Scenario, um, the other day. Also now I understand the comparisons that people made with, um, the Joker. Yeah. Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix, even though Oti doesn't care for the Lady Gaga, um, I can, I understand it now. And I, I wonder if I would be one of those befuddling disgruntled people that are like, King of Comedy did it better.

8:22KT: The Joker is just copying this film. I might've been that person if I had watched King of Comedy. You would have been. Well, thank you for telling me who I am. Thank you. Can you take a fucking hint?

8:37KT: Um, but I just, I loved how grounded it was. And Martin Scorsese's mom was the voice of like, was the voice of the mom. Um, and I just loved it because it just pulled it back into reality. It gave me notes of like the OG Psycho with Norman Bates and his mom, like that sort of relationship, like shut up, mom, I'm doing something I'm cooking.

9:01KT: Um, so I really, I really appreciated the notes of it. It really is a one of one. Um, and again, thank you to our patrons and we are going to go into the themes in a second, but it makes me worried that the branding that I understood Martin Scorsese to be is going to be prevalent in a lot of these films, which means I might need to get off the rollercoaster.

9:26KT: You see what I'm saying? I hope I feel this feeling again, but I feel like what we know. Scorsese to be are the films that are coming forward. You see what I mean? Like this is Martin Scorsese's Visitor Q. This is like, you know what I mean? And then like everything else is what you would take as Takashi Miike.

9:48Oti: Oh, wow. Right. Like we, so coming up, you'll see that we'll be discussing themes all put forward by patrons. And a lot of those, at least to me, were not met.

10:02KT: They don't apply here.

10:02Oti: Yeah. And. Like you said, it paints a picture of this being uniquely positioned. And this is weird because I think if we had watched Taxi Driver, I'm wondering if it was meant, whether or not it was a timescale thing or point in time in Scorsese's, uh, movie making journey, or was it this just being uniquely different as you said, Takashi Miike's Visitor Q.

10:32KT: Yeah, so it's, it's one of those, was it a limited edition menu item in this Reference Degustation? And I feel like, um, it might be, oh, sorry, we're in a napkin restaurant. Sorry. The limit, the, um, seasonal market price item. Yes. Um, but yeah, I just really enjoyed, I just really enjoyed how, um, De Niro just committed. Like how his character, uh,

10:59KT: Mr. Pupkin, and they just continually made fun. Like it was, uh, I guess you could call it an emasculation, but it was also like an indifference to his existence. And I think that's what is distilled in King of Comedy. Oh, a hundred percent agree. Oh, what's the difference Oti? Because you couldn't tell him that he couldn't make it.

11:20KT: So what's the difference between him and people that actually make it?

11:27Oti: There's no difference. Yeah, right.

11:29KT: There's no difference. He just wasn't the one

11:35Oti: a lot of the people that make it or either one of two types, right? Either they're born in it or they've done some scandalous shit to get there. Yep. Oh, the lucky ones, the lottery ticket winners,

11:52KT: the ones that give all the other average people a chance.

11:54Oti: Yeah. Um, like Katt Williams said, you know, he, there's a reason why he doesn't have a catalog of movies up until this point.

12:03KT: Um, I, I feel like you're really bringing the urban influence to the King of Comedy.

12:10Oti: I, um,

12:15KT: but, um, I would say that, um, I, and again, I know we got a lot of themes. Some of them aren't really addressed anyway, but, um, before we get to that, I just want to get your thoughts on this because I feel like. I'm not sure if it's the influence of modern watching in the 2020s and the 2010s, but King of Comedy did feel a bit more restrained in what I anticipated would, you know, when you get to the third act and you go full balls to the wall, nothing else matters.

12:45KT: We're no longer tethered to reality. There were moments where I felt like, you know, Pupkin and Masha was just going to go straight for it. You know, but they were still restrained in some sort of way, or you don't think so?

12:59Oti: I don't think they're restrained. The whole third act, they do a lot. They're pushed to a corner to a point where they feel they didn't have a choice other than to kidnap Jerry Langford.

13:10KT: Yes, but what I'm saying is we start this film and they're both already delulu. So I already could believe that they would kidnap him. Do you see what I'm saying? I guess so. They didn't descend into delulu. They were already like there. They were like, like final boss level delulu.

13:33Oti: Oh, I didn't, I think to me, it still took me aback.

13:39Oti: It still felt a bit balls to the wall.

13:41KT: You didn't think that that would happen? Bro, Pupkin had his own little talk show in his little basement.

13:48Oti: I thought they would definitely do something to Langford. Whether or not they'll be able to position themselves to actually succeed is something I didn't expect and that I think was the twist of it all.

14:00Oti: Okay. At least to me.

14:02KT: Okay. Interesting. Well, um, let's get into the common and recurring themes. And again, thank you to our patrons, um, that have sent their contributions through. It's very, very cute that for one particular theme, um, all four of them said the same thing. Yeah. So we're going to get to it.

14:21KT: So this is direction slash stylistic choices.

14:25KT: Um, the first that we have is from Rob and Julio. So Rob says narrating. Julio says voiceover as an effective storytelling tool.

14:35Oti: Uh, no narrating in this. Thank God. We watched a movie yesterday that was 90 percent narration. Bosco. I wasn't going to say because it took me out of the movie completely. It's not like when we're watching A Million Dollar Baby, where I thought he played a pivotal role in uplifting the narrative of the film.

14:54Oti: Yeah. This just felt, I was, at a moment I was like, just shut up, just shut up. I'm tired of listening to him. Keep quiet and let's just watch. Um, but I'm glad because I think sometimes it can be used as a crutch when you feel like your movie isn't. Isn't conveying the message. It's like pasting over.

15:14KT: Yeah, yeah, I get that.

15:16Oti: You could tell most of those were post production edits, but I'm glad in this that we didn't get any of that. And we were fully left into the world of just the delusions of grandeur in Pupkin and all that.

15:30KT: I think it's exactly what you're saying, because we were wholly in the lens of Rupert Pupkin.

15:37KT: Like, so there wasn't a need for narration because we were, we were where he was, you know, when he wanted to stay in that foyer, we stayed in that foyer with him. We're like, no, Mr. Langford's busy. Yeah, bet. I'll just sit here and wait.

15:51Oti: So now imagine that point and Pupkin starts narrating. I was sitting there this whole time thinking to myself, what am I going to do different?

15:59Oti: How can I get Langford out of here?

16:01KT: Did he have a lack of like. Social awareness, or did he just not give a fuck? He just didn't give a fuck. Right? Cause I feel like if we were to narrate, Rupert would be like, this fucking bitch don't know what she's doing. No, you can tell, you can tell he, he made, he knew, he knew

16:15Oti: that it would make people uncomfortable to the point where they'll try and take action.

16:18KT: And he, he preyed on that. Yeah. He was like, well, I'm just going to sit here. Because they, they said it to him nicely. And I'm like, with this guy, you need to directly say, get the fuck out. No,

16:27Oti: it wasn't until the secretary came and she was like, okay, will Langford will be here tomorrow.

16:32KT: Come tomorrow, but you can't be like, bring your tape and you can't do that.

16:36KT: Nice corporate, like shoe, shoe, shoe. You can't do that to this man. You tell him to get the fuck out. Cause otherwise he's going to stay there. Um, the next one that we have is from Brent and it's New York.

16:50Oti: Yeah, that was mad. Yeah. This is sat in the underbelly of New York. Um.

16:56KT: There was a lady that shouted, I hope you get cancer or someone on the phone that said, I hope you get cancer.

17:01KT: And Jerry Lewis said that that was based off of one of his experiences, which, um, I don't think we're going to see it in, in the themes because it's across the whole filmography. But I really appreciated, you know, people call it parasocial sort of relationships, like the relationship you believe you have with like someone famous or like, you know, out of your realm of familiarity.

17:24KT: Um, but I really liked the way that this film captured celebrity and I guess the mundanity or the monotony in interactions that can come from celebrity. I really appreciate it. And it reminded me of Nope. Speaking of Nope, I did reference King of Comedy as a bookmark because of Gordy's Home and talking about the need of release.

17:48KT: So I would validate that reference. I would validate the Joker one as well, but going back to Nope, the way in which Hollywood was captured. I think was done very well. Um, and I think the way that celebrity and then the, the shrining, um, of celebrity was done very well in this film as well, but yes, New York.

18:09KT: Absolutely.

18:10KT: Tick, tick, tick. This is from Rob. This is for all of the film bro film shot money shot peeps. Um, he's got a Scorsese bingo freeze frames. I don't think we had that here. Slow mo. I don't think we had that here. Split diopter? No, I don't think so. Uh, tracking shots, extreme close ups. I don't think we had any of that.

18:33KT: Again, I feel like this was a very, albeit delusional, it was a very grounded approach to filmmaking. Um, because the story was so fucking wild, right? Um, let's go into the next, uh, direction stylistic choices. So this is Julio. The minutiae of large scale operations presented as an entry level into our character's world and lifestyle.

19:02Oti: Uh, I don't think so. Um, I think when we're delving, well, there's the TV, would you call it big TV, uh, but we're taking it to the world of media and how, you know, Langford is the king of the time and we have Pupkin who wants to be the star.

19:29KT: He wants to challenge for the title.

19:30Oti: Yeah. Yeah. But we're not solely focusing through the prism or we are not being entered into the world of.

19:36Oti: Big TV through that it's more, we getting to experience Pupkin through his own delusions.

19:43KT: It's the lens and we're absolutely where Pupkin is. Yeah. Even if we don't want to be where he is, where he is. So yeah, so there's not necessarily commentary on that, but I am interested to see how the other films bring that in as well.

19:56KT: Um, we have the historical retelling of real events and that's by Brent. Um, not in this instance. Killers of the Flower Moon and The Irishman, I suppose, is where we're going to see that. Um, this is also from Brent. Long ass movies.

20:11Oti: This was not long either, which is good.

20:14KT: Yeah. Right. Yeah. If we could keep that, but

20:17Oti: obviously they just

20:18KT: walked through and through.

20:19KT: Yeah, obviously we know we're in for that. Uh, this is also Brent as well. Throwback films. This was contemporary to the time. I believe, um, we're going to get into themes now. Hello, Brent, again, uh, crime slash gangster drama. No, no. We're going to see that in Goodfellas shortly. Um, this is, so we've got three patrons.

20:41Oti: Well, then again, he didn't, he does commit crime.

20:44KT: He does commit crime. Okay. Okay. Let's okay. We love, we do love delulu crime. So let's, let's talk about that for a bit, because there is a lot about, morality and stuff, which we'll come to in a second, but let's just focus on the actual crime. So what crimes would you judge, Oti,

21:03KT: uh, in the For Your Reference courtroom, say that Rupert Pupkin committed in King of Comedy?

21:11Oti: uh, kidnapping. Yep. Uh,

21:15KT: yeah.

21:15KT: Hijacking a TV set or that doesn't really count. Oh, it does, right? Yeah. And also telling it a mom to shut up, ah, or saying anything to your mum.

21:27Oti: He, he does a lot of, he does a lot of wrong things legally, but at the end of it.

21:32KT: He couldn't hold the cue cards correctly.

21:35KT: Yeah, I think that's a crime.

21:38KT: Um, but like, is it okay if it's funny?

21:43Oti: It was hilarious. Whether or not he was a funny person, that stands to be.

21:47KT: Okay. Cause we don't have a theme for this. And, you know, we do get to general discussion after these things, but I want to talk about it now. He wasn't very funny, was he?

21:58KT: He was not funny at all. But the set that he did in the broadcast was very funny. It was. So how, riddle me that Batman.

22:07Oti: He needed his shot. Up until that point, maybe he had throwaways that they didn't paint him as someone who was actually funny up until the point where we were reaching, uh, you know, you know, it's, it, it, it actually was a catalyst for his, you know,

22:25KT: I don't know if you can step up to the plate, bro.

22:28KT: If this is what you

22:31Oti: did, sometimes you just need to know that you've kidnapped someone and they're being tied up to get your shot to, for the hilarity to, you know,

22:39KT: Yeah, that's fucking hilarious. Okay. Well, let's, let's continue on. So this is from three of our patrons. So I'll read them all, but too long.

22:47KT: Didn't read Catholic boy, essentially. So I guess you can combine the powers with our Catholic residential boy Oti. So this is from Rob. Religion or religious overviews, sacrifice, temptation, and the seduction of good by evil. We have Julio saying Catholic guilt. That's a big one. Ben Catholic guilt or just guilt revealing itself through self flagellation, self harm, mental or physical.

23:13KT: Wow. We've got a lot of Catholic boys in the For Your Reference periphery. We should call us For Your Spotlight. Um, but Oti. Our Catholic boy, um, I think this is easy. This is a no.

23:26Oti: It is a no, but we do get to see seduction of fame. So yeah, you know, whether or not you have your religious tendencies, there's always that seduction of something.

23:36Oti: So be it your seduction to JC or seduction to Langford. Yeah, it's a part of, so

23:45KT: you just casually say JC, wow.

23:49Oti: JC, JL, you know, so walking in tandem.

23:52KT: Again, I don't call him the residential Catholic boy for nothing, friends and lovers. Um, so the next one is from Rob powerful cabals and the inner workings of absolute power.

24:05KT: Again, because of the lens, I don't think that was met here. Yeah. Julio, violence isn't funny, friends and lovers. Violence is the means to resolve conflict.

24:19Oti: There is violence in this movie.

24:22KT: Yeah. It's not. And it resolved the conflict.

24:26Oti: It resolved and paid off.

24:27KT: Yeah, it did. Crime pays, kids.

24:32Oti: Yeah. This is not the movie to teach someone any lessons, any life lessons.

24:37KT: Why? Cause if you're rich, you can do anything. True.

24:40Oti: It's only applied to the poor people who have to suffer consequences.

24:44KT: Exactly. Unless you're the eldest boy.

24:50KT: Um, yeah, so, you know, Oti already covered it when we were talking about the crimes, um, about the violence, I think. Anyway, we'll come to characters in a second and I can share what I was feeling there. Um. Again, when Scorsese hits, Scorsese hits. We have four of our patrons saying the same thing. So I'll read them.

25:10KT: This is from Rob, conflicted protagonists who are charming and righteous in their cause. They really believe what they're doing is the right thing. That's a tick. Walking the tightrope. This is from Julio. Walking the tightrope when depicting morally compromised characters in a way that doesn't condone their actions while also keeping them interesting as protagonists, I would say half no, um, Ben challenging protagonists who are ethically and morally flawed yet human and layered.

25:38KT: I think human and layered, I think layered is a bit too generous for Pupkin, but we'll keep going. And then we have Brent heroic, bad guys, relatable villains, usually loved for the wrong reasons by viewers. And he actually noted the films Taxi Driver, Goodfellas, Mean Streets, Wolf of Wall Street. So essentially we're talking about, you know, conflicted sort of protagonist.

26:01KT: I think only Julio was the one that talked about. You know, the morality and that sort of thing, um, or as in not condoning the, you know, lack of humanity. So what are your thoughts on this particular theme?

26:14KT: I think this was a big chunk of the film.

26:16Oti: I had a note that says, Pupkin is a quintessentially Scorsesian character, deeply flawed, delusional, yet somehow sympathetic in his relentless pursuit of success.

26:30Oti: We get to see him be in this all delusion of his living life as if it's his the, you know, his, his, the main character, as they say, and everything, everything from the start, because I think when it started, I was a bit confused. I was like, wait, what, what is happening here?

26:49KT: Yeah, like I think it had to happen a couple of times for you to realize none of this is real.

26:56KT: We're inside of this man's head.

26:58Oti: Yeah, there wasn't a stylistic element telling us, Ooh, he's in his head or right now, you know, and kudos. It took me a while to be like, Oh shit, this guy is in his own bloody world. And I loved that. And I love that it didn't try to baby feed me that aspect of the movie as well.

27:15KT: Yeah. Um, I think what was interesting was I didn't even care whether he made it or not, but I also didn't care whether they stopped him because it was very interesting. Like, I just respected the hustle, I guess is the best way to say it. Oh, you gotta respect the hustle. Like he was, he was determined to get there.

27:37KT: So by hell or high water, Rupert Pupkin was going to be flashing in lights. And I just wonder, you How much of it do you think is real? Do you think the movie is grounded enough to tell us that it happened? That the threatening of the cue cards actually got him where he needed to be? Because we were so much in his head now that I've, not that it changes my outcome or feelings of the film, but do you think some of that delulu, because we were already in his head, some of it was playing in here and not out there?

28:07Oti: It could be a possibility, but one thing that I would say is. Maybe it takes that level, level of delusional to actually make it in such an industry where you keep on getting told no, no, no, up until you do something radical for you to be paid any sort of attention. Exactly. So his radicalness actually paid off at the end.

28:31Oti: Because us as a society, we sort of cling to that.

28:35KT: But did he really do anything wrong?

28:38Oti: He did. Kidnapping is wrong.

28:43KT: Well, in the world of big pharma and, you know, stealing pension accounts, is it really wrong?

28:52Oti: It is, especially when you have Masha over there acting a fool.

28:57KT: Well, I wasn't even talking. I was just saying, is it so wrong to want to be seen and be heard, especially when friends and lovers, if you've got some time go and watch Welcome to Chippendales and listen to our episode reviewing Welcome to Chippendales.

29:14KT: Some real shady shit goes on behind the scenes in Hollywood. Was it really so wrong for Pupkin to have his 15 minutes of fame?

29:23Oti: It wasn't. But there are better ways to go about it rather than kidnap someone.

29:28KT: I don't like that I'm a kidnapping apologist. I don't like that that's what the logline is going to be.

29:36KT: But when I am in the film, I am in the film. And I'm just saying there are bigger fish to fry in the crime world. Is that okay? I hear you just like, I'm not going to be stabby stabbing around in the purge. I'm going to be draining all of these billionaire accounts. That's what I'll be doing.

29:58KT: Um, let's move on. We have Ben, a Marty cameo.

30:05Oti: We did. He was the director,

30:06KT: TV director. Yep. Um, and again, shout outs to his mom also for being in the film too. We have Julio, the struggle to be spiritual in a materialistic world.

30:18KT: I don't think it applies here. It doesn't apply here. I think the only thing it applies to is that Eddie Murphy movie where he was bald and he was going around being righteous. But I would argue. Why? You're just going to let me.

30:33Oti: I would argue that Pupkin in his delusion, he'd reached a state of pure spirituality that

30:44Oti: aligned all his Zen.

30:47KT: And opened all the gates, opened

30:49Oti: all the gates on the chakras to the point where he reached his full form to actually be successful in such a world in a materialistic world.

31:00KT: So why are you allowed to say that? I'm not allowed to say that his crime wasn't that bad.

31:05Oti: I just said he reached a level in himself that he was, he had self actualized.

31:15Oti: You know, in those corporate gigs, Pupkin would be the perfect person to come and speak to you.

31:19KT: Oh yeah, he's very determined, whatever he wants to get done, um, he's definitely going to achieve it. Okay, we have a couple more and then I do have some just general notes that I want to go through. Is this Julio again?

31:33KT: Living by a specific code of conduct, whether you're a criminal or not. This one, I feel could be yes or no. It could be yes, because he did have a code of conduct, but it wasn't a code of conduct. It was more as a means to meet a goal. You see what I'm saying? It wasn't as if he expected people to live by that code.

31:59KT: It was more, he wants to be where he wants to be. And that's how he's going to get there. That's how I felt about that.

32:08Oti: Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. Plus I think his code of conduct would have been don't lie to me. Don't tell lies. He took that very personally.

32:18KT: But what if it's you're not that good? That wasn't a lie.

32:22KT: He's just a truth he didn't want to hear.

32:23Oti: Langford told him come and see me tomorrow and we'll

32:28KT: Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No one wants the corporate run round anyway. Exactly. Just tell him

32:32Oti: to fuck off. If you had told him that at least.

32:35KT: No, because then he would have come and kidnapped you. It's like a pick a path.

32:39KT: No matter what pick a path you go to, you're going to the Rupert Pupkin delusional.

32:43Oti: I guess so. The Detroit of movies.

32:45KT: Wow. Shout out to Jesse Williams. Yeah. Why? When are we ever going to cover Jesse Williams? Um, and let's finish off, this is Julio again, the toll of keeping necessary secrets from the person you love or the people you love.

33:04Oti: Not really.

33:05KT: Cause he just lived the way he wanted to live.

33:09Oti: And he told his mom everything.

33:12KT: Like he's got a full blown, size model of Liza Minnelli in his basement. Like, there's literally nothing, there's literally nothing to hide. That's pretty much the way that he lived. And I love the open kimono transparent breaking of the four, four that we get through Pupkin's character in King of Comedy.

33:31KT: It was very refreshing in a world of. Twisters in a world of turning in a world of clerking backering in a world of I revealed the plot, but I misled you all the way along. It was very, I just loved how straightforward the film was.

33:49Oti: Me too. Me too.

33:50Oti: And. Shout out to, to Rita to see levels of,

33:57KT: It took you long enough to shout out the black person in the car.

34:01Oti: Cause I don't know how I would have reacted if I was, if I was in that situation,

34:06KT: you mean going to, uh, Jerry Langford, super, super famous person at the times house and realizing you were never invited. How embarrassing is that? Cause I think at that point, I think that was the only time that the both of us were like.

34:23KT: Um, because he started to involve other people, especially the beautiful Rita, even though in a Pupkin said Rita, every King needs a queen. Like that's when we started to feel a bit like, come on, pull it back, friend. Because you're like affecting other people. It's not just you and your delusional. Oh, a hundred percent.

34:46KT: That was very sad. Um, I, something that I think of often is, again, I just admire the hustle. Him seeing Jerry Langford, like, I don't know, there's not a lot of famous people in Australia, but if I see famous people, I don't really go up to them at all. Not even just to like give love and be like, Hey, I really appreciate your stuff.

35:06KT: But then he full on went to them, even the, the, the very like. Setting of the film of all of these little fan babies, like waiting for him. And then he's acting like he's the Kevin Costner, like trying to protect Jerry Langford, bro. You're one of them. What are you, what are you talking about? You're one of these fan babies.

35:29KT: Um, but then him also being like, Oh, I'll treat you to lunch. I'll treat you to lunch. Appetiser only.

35:37KT: It's, it's good to be, at least you could say he was, you know, he, he was very sound of mind in the bank account. Um. It's one of the notes that I wrote down, which I don't know if you want to have like a outdated theme section, but the mention of Woody Allen. Oh yeah. Yeah. In this film. Um, there was also a quote about Marilyn Monroe dying tragically alone.

36:05KT: Um, like the rest of the beautiful women of the world when he was talking to Rita and I'm like. Put down your incel handbook. That's not how you speak to a woman. What's the point of being beautiful?

36:15Oti: She's gone die alone, mate.

36:19KT: It's like, bro. Um, yeah, but then just, I think it was done very well in the commentary of.

36:29KT: You know, wanting to be a king for a day, instead of a schmuck for a lifetime. Schmucko Supremo was something that I really appreciated. Like there was so much to love about this film. How about you?

36:42Oti: Oh, I adored it. Adored everything about it. Um, even the, even the results and the, you know, even the end result was grounded in reality because that's exactly how it will unfold.

36:57Oti: Yeah. Yeah. He'd go to jail. He was sentenced for what, five, six years and only did two or one. Get your bestseller. Was up, got a bestseller, got a show afterwards. Yeah.

37:07KT: Just go through the media cycle. Yeah. Madness.

37:12Oti: We're all just living in a rich man's world, bruv.

37:15KT: But crime pays, doesn't it? Um, I think one of the biggest cringy moments in King of Comedy was when Pupkin was on a date with, Rita.

37:26KT: And he started talking about the autograph book

37:29KT: and it was so bad. All of these like famous people that have like signed it. I don't think I clocked it. I think you clocked it when he started talking about the scribbling and you knew that he was talking about himself. I'm like this guy. It's so embarrassing

37:51Oti: manifest where you want to be

37:54KT: like, how, like there was a part of me that I didn't even think Rita was real because like, to be around a man like that, I don't know.

38:02KT: Yeah, that's just,

38:04Oti: I think the only way Rita was able to even come around him in that aspect is because they went to school together. Otherwise it was completely random.

38:13Oti: I don't think that happens at all.

38:18KT: Um, unless you have anything else, the one thing that I wanted to end on was again, his delusion and, you know, it's one of those things, friends and lovers, like, even if you're in your thirties, you still lay awake at night and you think about when you're in elementary or you're in primary school and the mean things bullies would say to you, it reminded me of when he had his little delulu moment of getting a national apology, right?

38:45KT: I'm apologizing on behalf of the nation and I'm like, is this, maybe again, maybe he was the one DMing Elmo telling him all his problems.

38:57Oti: Oh dear. Yeah. Everyone needs that.

39:01KT: Some shit you just need to move on from if you can't heal from it.

39:04Oti: No, we need national apologies.

39:08KT: I think, I think cause you know, it was like had happened one or two times when that happened.

39:13KT: We're like, yeah, this isn't real. Like, we're in this man's head. This whole movie is this man's head. Hoo, hoo, hoo. How are you feeling after the first course, Oti?

39:27Oti: Great. I am looking forward to the next four.

39:29KT: Right? It's a great way to satiate the palate, friends and lovers. Next up on the menu, we have Goodfellas.

39:38KT: Aviator, The Irishman, and Killers of the Flower Moon. Um, if you would like to enter the For Your Reference delulu on Twitter, Instagram, Spill, Bluesky, and TikTok,

39:52Oti: write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

39:54KT: We're also on Schmucko Supremo Podcast, if you'd like to leave a rating and review, and we'll see you in the second course.

40:03KT: See ya.