Sorry Baby, Women Wearing Shoulder Pads, HIM & One Battle After Another

Full transcript of Sorry Baby, Women Wearing Shoulder Pads, HIM & One Battle After Another.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, and it is another turn of the season. Spring has sprung, Oti.

0:07Oti: It has,

0:08KT: can we call you tpa? How sprung are you feeling?

0:11Oti: Too sprung.

0:15KT: Um, just some little, some little baby. Uh, Theo announcements as he walks through the mic area. Um, Demon Slayer. Top five grossing films worldwide.

0:26Oti: Yep.

0:27KT: So as the unofficial, no one has authorized, uh, Sinners sweep, Oscar campaign manager, friends and lovers. I will also be doing a campaign for Demon Slayer as well.

0:41Oti: Throw it in the ring.

0:43KT: Sinners is still the best film of 2025. You know, I'm not into hyperbole, friends and lovers, but I felt that Smoke and Annie loving when I was in 4DX.

0:54Oti: Where

0:54KT: are you? How are you sitting for 2025 best films?

0:59Oti: Oh, Sinners is still up there. Still up there? So far. So far

1:05KT: it can't be up there if it's the top. Hey.

1:08Oti: What do you mean it's up there?

1:10KT: Yeah. But then you're making it seem like there are contenders machine. There have been some contenders

1:14Oti: this year, but it's still there.

1:16KT: All right. Smashing Machine fella. Wow. That was a great preamble. Um, and also shout outs to everyone living in New South Wales. It is a public holiday and I will recognize it as the Co Queen of Australia. Nicole Kidman holiday.

1:33Oti: Oh wow.

1:34KT: Fuck Keith Urban.

1:36Oti: Wow.

1:36KT: The only Keith we acknowledge is Lake Keif and Keith Sweat.

1:42Oti: End of

1:43KT: list. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends, and Nicole, baby gal, Kidman lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT

1:57Oti: and Oti.

1:59KT: Today we have a mixture mix, um, and some mixed. As well.

2:04Oti: Mm.

2:05KT: Um, films on the way, but before we even get to that, Oti, um, just wanna give some love and shout outs if you're following the podcast in a linear timeline. We dropped our interview with Leigh and Betiel for their CEEBS series. I just wanted to give a little bit of tasting, little bit of thoughts. Um, the series is on TikTok. They also have it on Instagram. We did the OG Vimeo screeners. Um, what, what are your thoughts, Oti? I enjoyed

2:35Oti: it, you know, um, it's good to see, um, this sort of content take off of, you know, I enjoyed it through and through. So yeah, happy to see the love going around, especially for my Africans.

2:51KT: Um, and I, I think it's cool, like even in the, um, with our chat. Like they didn't. And I think it's also, you know, we are, we are young and sexy, but we are of a particular age, friends and lovers. But it's so cool to see them not feel the burden. Like if, if no one else has seen another African Australian production, they don't have the burden of, it has to be drama, it has to be every experience. They just wanna have fun.

3:16Oti: Yeah.

3:18KT: I really enjoyed it. Go and check it out. The links, uh, are in the interview, friends and lovers, TikTok, uh, predominantly, but you can also check it out on Instagram as well. Are you ready to get into some films?

3:30Oti: Let's go.

3:32KT: Uh, this is me. Uh, also friends and lovers. Sorry to mention, uh, we try not to do spoilers, but I feel like we're gonna need to bust it wide open in the last couple of films. But for now, we're doing non-spoilers, shout outs to Nickko, uh, and also A24. This is Sorry, Baby. I ventured myself out to the cinema for this one. Sorry, Baby plays more in the processing of real life as opposed to a narrative film that has the space for reflection. There is an earnestness from Eva Victor that is comforting and requires vulnerability from the audience too.

4:14Oti: Processing of real life. Tell me more.

4:18KT: The synopsis is very ambiguous. So we have Eva Victor as the main sort of protagonist, and she's gone through something, you don't really know what the something is, but she's gone through something. You have Naomi Ackie's character, love hot gal of the day mm-hmm. Of the time, of the decade, of the eternity. Um, and she's a very good, like, they're very good close friends. They're very close friends. Uh, they're trying to figure out life together, something very traumatic happens. Obviously not going to spoil anything, but it really speaks to, I guess, friendship. And it's kind of like. You know how we talked about She Said, and obviously there's so much about Weinstein, like even if you're not trying, you'll know stuff about, um, you know, his case and uh, you know the survivors, right? Yeah. But what I really love and I referenced to this day is how well straight up. The director as well as, you know, those involved in the team were able to film and, and address themes like sexual assault, for example, without it being gross and exploitative.

5:28Oti: Right,

5:29KT: right. With the female gaze and about it being safe. You know, it's not trying to shock you in every way, and that's how you're going like, like really disgusting, shocking scenes about women to make you care about women. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So I would impart that on Sorry, Baby as well. I really liked the way that themes were addressed. It felt very real. Like in my pull quote, I mentioned there's a lot of earnestness that's there and you kind of need to be at a certain vulnerability to meet that earnestness. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. As a story, if we're talking about a narrative film, I wouldn't say it was frustrating, but again, I took it as processing. You know, when you are like. Catching up with your gal pals or with your friends, and they're currently, as of this minute and second, going through something. Mm.

6:25Oti: Right.

6:25KT: And you want to hold them and you want to be, you want them to be okay, but sometimes it's time. You just need that time. And then the next sort of catch up you might have, that's when you know the healing is starting and you can actually hold each other and reflect on it and really be there as much as you wanna be there. Mm. You know, this film kind of stayed in that processing. Which felt real. But again, if we're watching a narrative film, I'm not even saying it needed to have a definitive ending. I'm not even saying it even had to have like a happy ending, but it still felt like the processing was still happening. So for us as a friend slash audience, there's nothing really we can do. And then the movie ends and it's like, I hope you're okay, but I just need to be there when you need me. But we're not there yet. Does that make sense? No, it

7:21Oti: makes sense. I feel you.

7:23KT: We can talk about performances, um, and that sort of thing, but it was a very, is this what they mean by like tragically poetic? Like it, it was just done in a really like well done way. I wouldn't even say it's about me being uncomfortable and staying in the ambiguity. It's not even that. It's just I love you and I know you're going to get through it, but right now you're going through it. Yeah. Does that make sense?

7:47Oti: Yeah.

7:49KT: Um, speaking about going through it in the most of ways, um, we are covering Women Wearing Shoulder Pads. Um, this is our, I would say it was our, it's our first, uh, Adult Swim screeners. Would you say, Oti, it

8:06Oti: was or is?

8:08KT: Was is will continue to be. Shout out to Nicole and the team at Warner Brothers Adult Swim, um, for reaching out to us and giving us the screeners. Um, recently there was Hispanic Heritage Month. Um, the whole show is out, uh, and I think the finale has already aired as well, obviously no spoilers. I would just say before we even get to the pull quotes, immediately, go and watch it. Because it's fun and it's different. Um, but we're gonna get into pull quotes. Non-spoilers, take us away, Oti.

8:42Oti: Stop-motion, quirky, and delightfully surreal, this show ticks all the right boxes. It takes a moment to find its stride, but once it does, it's as weirdly wonderful as its cuys.

8:54KT: Love it. Mm. It's good to know. You love the women's as well?

8:59Oti: Yeah.

9:02KT: The choice of stop-motion animation pairs well with the intrigue, playfulness and straight-up drama of the world of Women Wearing Shoulder Pads. Hmm, I, I got some big back shoulders, so I don't know if I would benefit. Maybe the world would benefit from me wearing some shoulder pads, but I think that's too much power.

9:25Oti: I reckon

9:26KT: maybe.

9:27Oti: Mm.

9:27KT: Okay. So how did you, how did you feel? I think there was a moment when we first started watching that we forgot this was Adult Swim.

9:36Oti: I was like, oh yeah, there it is.

9:40KT: So how, how did you feel about, obviously non-spoiler, but how did you feel about the show?

9:44Oti: It felt, I didn't know what to expect with this. And every time they kept on throwing something weird and quacky and different, I'd be like, oh, okay. And it only took a few more episodes for me to be like, there it is. You know what, I'm having fun here.

10:00KT: Yeah, I, I really enjoy because, you know, we talk about this all the time, friends and lovers of utilizing the genre of animation because you can do a lot more. Animated even in regards to like, I wouldn't even say heinousness, but there are things that you can get away with in animation that come off a bit cold and stark when you're doing it in a live action. And then when you take it even further to the stop motion, it really played into the campiness, the, you know, we recently just saw Benito Bad Bunny on SNL, and he had like a kind of a callback. You know, to those sketchy, um, sort of skits and that sort of thing. So, um, it really plays well into the deliciousness. You know, it's even in the trailer as well, when she was like, does this kid look annoying? As they sound, I'm like, I'm in. And it's done. It's done so well. It's done. So, and I also like that it doesn't really. Like, it doesn't really have to fill in the gaps. You are just right up in the action.

11:15Oti: Mm-hmm.

11:16KT: And you're either with it or you're not. There's a lot of, uh, tantalizing, the dialogue was really fun as well. Um, as well as the costumes. Again, I guess you play into, uh, the genre, but you know, you got some sexy women fucking shit up. I am always gonna be their friends and lovers.

11:34Oti: Yeah, I love the different angles as well. Like there's so much to look, look at in this, in which scene? In which scene. Uh, I never expected this. I'm not sure anyone would, but go in and just have fun with it.

11:50KT: But I think I, I think there also should be some credit to the fact that there aren't a lot of shows like this. I think it was also noted that this is the first Spanish language, uh, in the lineup of Adult Swim, like in that block of shows. Um, and it's just fun. I don't think there's a lot of shows that are for adults that are in this medium that are just fucking fun, man.

12:14Oti: Yeah, and I'm pretty sure they'll do an English dub if it's not already out there. For it as well. Stop that.

12:20KT: Can we live in the subtitles? Sometimes

12:23Oti: it's accessibility, you know, people's preferences and all that

12:26KT: gasp in Spanish. And also like, um, friends and lovers we're eventually gonna cover, um, outlaw Doctor that isn't out yet. Um, but even like the intricacies of. Different countries and, you know, anyway, I, I don't wanna say too much about the show, but it's, it's sexy, it's bold and it's a bit vaporous just like myself. Mm. I love it. What do you love? Do you love the rest of the list that we have, Oti?

12:56Oti: Yeah. Pumped.

12:59KT: I am very excited, especially coming to this specific. Film, um, shout outs to Nick, uh, Lizzie Angel. We exchange many voice notes and, you know, in, in every timeline we would become podcasters. But shout outs to Nick. We penciled it in sometime in the future to do a full, full proper review. Um, but right now Oti and I are gonna get our shit off. Maybe Oti's gonna get his Julia Fox Love White Women's off. Um, but thank you so much to the team at Universal, um, for inviting us. To the media, uh, screening. Hit us up in the dms, friends and lovers, if you wanna hear about that experience. Um, usually I will scurry onto the media wall and ask Oti to take some photos. But, uh, um, let's get into the pull quote. Do you wanna spoil it or do we, or We'll see how far we can get with, without, I don't think

14:00Oti: we need to spoil this one. This. Oh, you're talking?

14:02KT: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Cool. So take us away my love.

14:04Oti: Visually sharp and anchored by solid performances, HIM aims high but never quite sticks the landing. Beautiful to look at but hollow at its core, making it feel more like a mood piece.

14:16KT: Ooh, okay. Oti gallery. Mm-hmm. Messaging and themes were frustratingly left unexplored. However, when observed through the lens of Wayan's White, an athlete where any peak is never enough and resents the inevitable succession of his career, even the surrealism feels grounded.

14:44Oti: Okay. You found some positivity in that, in that, in that, in that movie. Just from your review and from every other moment we've talked about this immediately after we left the theater, I, I think we had. Such stuck, uh, emotions towards it. You were positive. You felt like, oh my God, it's not the best thing in the world. But you could see, hang

15:13KT: on, hang on. Don't rewrite my narrative. I don't think I was necessarily positive. There's just been a really big shift statistically in the negative sort of critique that I come off as very positive. I don't think. Okay. Exactly. Okay.

15:29Oti: I I'm not gonna speak on you then. I, I, I'll speak on how I felt after I left the movie. I think halfway. I'm not

15:37KT: your Julia Fox. Don't you dare speak for me again.

15:46Oti: I know. It's too yum. So,

15:48KT: wow,

15:49Oti: we halfway through the movie. I felt like all I was focusing on were the shots and all I could appreciate were, you know, how beautiful everything looked

16:02KT: Because you gave up on the story, meaning something?

16:06Oti: No, because I gave up on the, the story meaning something. I realized the story wasn't telling me anything. Mm. The story was light on everything he wanted to deliver. Mm-hmm. That kept me wondering, kept me looking at everything else other than focusing on the main thing that I'm there sitting for. And then I started thinking about, oh my God, how cool this look in a, in a, in a Hype Williams video. You know, like random shit that had nothing to do with the movie.

16:32KT: Mm.

16:33Oti: And then at the end of the movie, I'm like. Trying to dissect everything I just watched. Mm-hmm. And trying to feel as if, you know, we get Marlon Wayans. He is, it's been a minute since seen, I seen Marlon act like this. Yeah, you

16:51KT: did. And On the Rocks

16:53Oti: and it took me, it, I was like, okay. I appreciate, I appreciate those like strong performances in there. But where do we draw the line between having strong performances and what you're performing? You know what I mean? Like what? What's being delivered?

17:09KT: Yeah.

17:09Oti: I can see the passion. I can see the skills, I can see the enthusiasm, but the messaging, the writing just felt. Lackluster. Mm.

17:21KT: I

17:21Oti: know what they're trying to talk about. I can see it, but it's just not being delivered in a way that's coherent enough to, to carry a, a round time. Of what, how long was it? It

17:32KT: was only an hour and a half.

17:33Oti: It felt like a two hour movie. Mm. It, it felt like it, it, it, it lingered so much on, on different things that it didn't really need to, the pacing felt off and I just. I don't know what's about this movie that just grounded my gear, where it, it had everything that I thought I'd like, you know, horror sports, mashed them into one. Maybe we just man words, man words like, you know, Julia Fox, we have Tyriq, we have beautiful people in the movie.

18:10KT: See, I just see, see, you're heavy on Julia Fox. I just didn't know. I just,

18:17Oti: because I, I'm really not on the internet like that. I, I had a few, well, clearly

18:21KT: you're on your subreddits.

18:23Oti: I had a few things about it being really not great or not being received as good, but I don't pay attention to all that. So going in, I wasn't, I wasn't really aware of it like that, but damn man, far out. I, I just expected a bit more. Especially with all the hullabaloo that we've had, I just thought, you know, sometimes it, it can just be noise because people just love hating.

18:51KT: Mm. Yeah. Clearly.

18:52Oti: Damn

18:53KT: man. Clearly. But you know, you know what the interesting thing is? I pretty much agree with. 85% of everything that you're saying. So, and that's why I'm saying for you to say that, I'm saying it's positive if, if you read between my delicious lines, I didn't say I loved it. I was just pointing out what worked in the film.

19:17Oti: Okay.

19:17KT: Um, shout out to Montero. Uh, I think his handles are spritely, uh, but shout outs to him because we did have a, a debrief and a pow wow. Um, after the screening. And the, the good thing going for me watching HIM, watching a, a film about sports is I don't have a high expectation. Of men, and I don't think men talking about sports is nuanced in any way now. Is that fair? I don't give a fuck. But it helped for this movie because I didn't have any expectations. Right. I didn't have any expectations that this would speak to young black men that get exploited in the NFL. And you know, I I, I don't know if that's like, if we're gonna get to that or we'll get to that eventually in a full review, but I didn't have the cultural weight and thank god I didn't have the gender weight. If you tell me. This is how shallow and obsessed and, and, uh, more rose men are about sports. I would say bet. Say I would scroll past your, your, um, your Stephen A. Smith. I will scroll past your, oh my God, I forgot what that white lady was Name. Is it? Oh, Kelly. She sharp. Yeah. I'll scroll past your Shannon Sharpes. I will scroll. Scroll past your Joe Buddens. Like I don't need to hear men talk about shit on mics. Oti is the exception. Everyone else can fuck off, but on some days. On some days you might also need to join the Mott, but if you like, I have a very low expectation, and I don't expect a lot in regards to vulnerability when it comes to men and when it comes to men in sports. So whatever the film was, was whatever the film was. Do you understand?

21:23Oti: Mm-hmm.

21:24KT: So if we take it from the point of view of Isaiah White, right? We've seen clips of Michael Jordan. Being upset that he can't play anymore. Right. Good. It doesn't matter. And you know, it's not so much of a spoiler. Like you and Montero were reminding me or telling me that Isaiah White's character in the film has more championship rings than, was it Tom Brady? Mm-hmm. So I, I guess it's just showing how successful he was, but you know, it's not enough. Got eight rings, but it's not enough. Right. And there was even a sentiment that, uh, Isaiah White's character says in the film of, how am I supposed to pass this on to, to young men that are nowhere near as talented as I am and as I like, they will never be able to touch me. Right. So, so when you think of that, when you think of the reluctance to name a successor, I think this film works. I think it, it, it, it, it doesn't do it in a way that is meaningful, but in, in the tethers of, I'm the best. No one will be better than me, but they're going to push me out because that's all I am at the end of the day. I'm probably not even an employee. I'm probably a contractor because I'm not gonna have the same insurance as an employee will have if we're getting very real right there. But from that point of view, I think it works. The visuals I don't really care about, but what I will say, I think this is the first time in a long time where I feel like the surrealist sort of visuals actually feel grounded, because again, I'm taking it from the point of view of Isaiah Whites. Character and even from Cameron Cade's character as well.

23:18Oti: I guess so. But when you That's a

23:19KT: Friday Night Lights ass name, by the way. Cameron Cade.

23:24Oti: Yeah. I, I'm just thinking about how the visual supplemented something like Infinity Pool and how it sort of tied everything together and I was like, oh my God, this is what this, it needed to be.

23:36KT: You need to go back to your Infinity Pool review then and give it a few more points. Actually, I loved

23:40Oti: the Infinity Pool. What are you talking about?

23:42KT: All right. All right. All right.

23:46Oti: Time, time to, to sail away.

23:48KT: Oh, you are done with him?

23:49Oti: Yeah.

23:50KT: Okay. I, I would say like, like you are saying right now, if you tell me it, it should have been explored more. I don't disagree with you, but I also feel like, based on who wrote it, based on the director, I didn't expect to think. That that's what we would get. Right. Even when you were talking about the writing, I was thinking of Woman King, right? And there was a white lady that wrote on the Woman King. I didn't know that watching Woman King, but I felt it in the storytelling because like you said, Marlon Wayans, brings a great performance in HIM. Viola Davis, no one, no one can take away her performance in Woman King, but the way that they try to prop up the character for the sake of a narrative. In regards to the context of historically what was going on, which I guess you could apply to HIM, it just didn't gel. They were just trying to get what they wanted to get from a story. So yeah, like I said, friends and lovers join me on my new platform where I plaster the faces of the writers and directors to save you, because Lens will save you every time. Friends and lovers. Mm-hmm. Speaking of lenses. Are yours pointed towards this blaxploitation or just the exploitation?

25:09Oti: There's nothing black. There's nothing black about this exploitation. Let's just say it that way.

25:15KT: There's a pull quote. There's a pull quote right there. Okay. Friends and lovers. The the time that everyone probably just us have been waiting for, I think I'm okay if we wanna do baby spoilers along the way. 'cause I really wanna air it out and stretch it out. If you're nasty. This is One Battle After Another. Take us away, Eric. Take.

25:39Oti: Entertaining and sure to get people talking, One Battle After Another shines. Peel back the veneer, though, and you find underdeveloped Black characters meant to be at the heart of the revolution. Woo. Yet we see so little of their story or motivation. Woo.

25:57KT: Nice. You are on your Chris Hansen's right there.

26:01Oti: Yeah.

26:06KT: Wow. I love that. You really? There was like a misdirect, right? I didn't know where we were going. 'cause it was like, what was it? In Weapons? When I talked about his aesthetics, I didn't say it as a compliment. And the way you said this was entertaining, you didn't mean that as a compliment. You are being facetious. Okay, I'm on this. I love this Oti train, Paul Thomas Anderson. I just wanna make it clear that I'm putting his whole name. I want people to know that I'm looking directly in his eyes. I also said this to the studio. Are you ready?

26:36Oti: Okay.

26:37KT: Paul Thomas Anderson leans heavy on the elasticity of the fictional setting, and never really commits to the rights of the very groups fighting for the innocuous diluted in quotes, revolution. A lot to offer visually. But not enough to avert from the real world. Fuck you. Fuck. You won't be on the pull quote, but you'll hear it. Can I just also make it, before we even get into this, Paul Thomas Anderson in the last couple of years did a filmmaking class in Tel Aviv. Fuck off. No wonder your revolution doesn't fucking make sense. Fuck off.

27:18Oti: All right. I like that energy.

27:19KT: Thanks.

27:21Oti: Uh,

27:22KT: but please don't have a boner for me in this moment. It will undo,

27:27Oti: it'll be one boner

27:28KT: after another. Okay. Go.

27:29Oti: Uh, just looking at the top cast page.

27:35KT: Mm.

27:35Oti: And you have Leo, he, Sean, Benicio, and I'm like, cool. Big charact, big actors by their own right. And I'm sitting here thinking. I went into the movie and you're telling me before we even went to watch it, oh, we've got a Teyana Taylor, Regina Hall movie out. I was like, what do you mean? You know, I saw Leo there. I was like, oh, it's a Leo movie. Cool. I'm in. Let's go watch this. And. The, the vibes of Killers of the Flower Moon just

28:11KT: seeped through

28:12Oti: quickly.

28:12KT: I was expecting, I don't know what this director looks like, but I was expecting him to come out in the third. I can start crying.

28:18Oti: Ex cor. What was Teyana Taylor's character's name? Perfidia. Oh my, Perfidia. Oh. Such an important role. The most important person in the movie. Yeah.

28:30KT: Fuck off.

28:31Oti: This movie is a redemption arc for Bob. For him to become a better father.

28:36KT: But you see how it just focuses on a middle aged white man whining the whole time and people are dying. 'cause that's what this is. They go to No, but they go to detention camps where the, where the immigrants, the refugees are and we're just fucking focusing on him. Bumfuck, fumbling the whole time.

28:50Oti: Because for the masses read white people to care. It has to be through the lens of Bob.

28:57KT: Yeah.

28:57Oti: It has to be through the plight of Bob. Being a a a a biracial father, heavy. And it's like, oh man, I feel the struggle.

29:10KT: So their identity is his burden. Fuck off.

29:12Oti: Because how? How else do you sell this?

29:15KT: Yeah, I know you don't. I know.

29:16Oti: And that's the problem. Then don't fucking write it if you can't sell it any other way.

29:20KT: Yeah,

29:20Oti: and that's the thing. This is where the pen fucking matters.

29:23KT: Mm.

29:24Oti: Because if you wanna speak on something, make sure you are ready to speak on it, or just don't do it. It's not for you because apparently this is based off a fucking book. AFIS characters. Accomplice was a white man. Then that's the story. Then if you add Deandra, if you had Wood Harris in there,

29:42KT: yeah,

29:42Oti: then it's a race thing.

29:44KT: Yeah.

29:44Oti: Then we're talking on race and if you can't talk on it, then fucking pe. Just do it differently. Do it the same way. The book did it, do it the same. Do it. Don't speak on, don't introduce shit that you can't speak on properly, or you can't let the characters breathe enough for us to understand their motivations in the movie.

30:02KT: Yeah.

30:04Oti: We'd get to see Teyana Taylor fucking disappear halfway through the movie.

30:07KT: Mm-hmm.

30:08Oti: After she's been this overly sexual person who's into Lockjaw, who's into Bob, who's into every other white person in this movie.

30:17KT: Yeah.

30:18Oti: And okay. But he

30:19KT: said, didn't even get some loving. He probably would if the character's met. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Fair.

30:26Oti: And then we have Wood Harris's character into this white woman and any other white person that's in there.

30:32KT: Yeah,

30:33Oti: it's, it's, it's a, it's like a man dinger. It's a biracial love fest.

30:37KT: Yeah. And I'm like, okay, cool. Because racism is over. We're in a post-racial country.

30:42Oti: We don't see color of revolution that does what? But doesn't focus on anyone who has color on why they're doing the fuck bomb shit they're doing, but specifically black people. Yeah. Yeah. But we are here to see Bob become a good father,

30:57KT: and he wasn't even that by the end, to be honest. He was just a better father than Sean Penn, which isn't saying much,

31:03Oti: but Sean Penn even gets a fucking redemption arc.

31:06KT: I know they all do because in their world they're Christoph Waltz in Inglourious

31:12Oti: Basterds. It's, it's helping con it. Yeah, we just needed to see, um, what's the lady's name? Octavia. Spencer. Ottavia. Spencer and Dola. Emma Stone. Emma Stone.

31:22KT: Some

31:23Oti: way, I dunno. Some,

31:24KT: yeah. Can, can they be non-descript for the purposes of this discussion?

31:28Oti: They would, they would be as non-descript as, as Teyana Taylor and Regina Hall. And my biggest qualm of this movie. Yep. You have Regina Hall in the fucking call list.

31:38KT: Underutilized. It's actually disrespectful. How much it was unutilized. It's,

31:42Oti: oh, not yet. Bro, maybe the scenes were cut. I don't know what the hell that was.

31:47KT: Yeah.

31:48Oti: But also put some respect.

31:50KT: Yeah. But respect yourself as well.

31:53Oti: Uh, and, and then those, I I, I barely get to watch reviews or listen to actors talk about this movie. And

32:02KT: you were right to say, don't listen to actors because,

32:05Oti: and well, c Ello was talking about how they didn't even know what the movie was when they were filming and all that. And, and to me, it's fucking clear. Because if they knew then

32:14KT: don't you think that's an out though? I think you are seeing it as an out. I took it as, oh, this director's so loose and so maverick. I took it as that. I didn't take it as, it probably means that there was more over their eyes. It

32:26Oti: probably means that, but I think it's more

32:27KT: to make you feel better that that black, black actors and performers that we love are in this film. And that actually comes to a very important theme that I wanna talk about. And it's, it's a lens and it's also. Mana. Friends and lovers, I know people like are like, eh, this is just a film. And that's why I'm like, all these fucking white people go to these doc watch documentaries of film festivals and the world's fucking worse because they don't understand that it should penetrate their mind and actually shift and unlearn all of the racist shit that has cushioned them their whole fucking life. Right? So what I'm saying in regards to One Battle After Another is. The way that it was constructed felt so deliberate to, like you were saying, and it felt actually really gross. Like it felt gross and it felt disgusting. But there's a reason why I love Sinners and I love Sinners. You know, we have a full review. I talk about it every time I can. And yes, you can say Sinners is just great because it was original. Um, and, and you know, it kind of tethered in some sort of way. There are Remmicks everywhere, and I don't even understand how people, if you have half of a film critique Letterboxd cell in your body, how do you not make a correlation between Remmick and this white man, Paul Thomas Anderson? Oh, but he is like aligned with blackness. Fuck off. Right? Because what I don't understand is. He can write this, he can continue to write movies like this, but why are we, sorry, I, I shouldn't say we 'cause I'm not black. But why are non-white people giving them mana? Why are you giving your cred? Why are you giving your beautiful face, your beautiful performances and injecting the story to give it some sort of credibility? Because a lot of what's happening right now, a lot of the black and back and back and forth. Is literally like that Stephen Graham being called like a black king, like everyone is just fighting so hard for this movie to be revolutionary, which maybe on some level is poetic because this film had a very flaccid, if you pardon the pun, revolution, and people are acting like it's got an erect revolution.

34:52Oti: It's. It's speaking on shit that's happening now. Right. But

34:56KT: is it really because, what was it? What were the tenets of this revolution? And who were they actually fighting for, and what did black people get out of fighting in this revolution?

35:07Oti: Nothing. Which is, I guess, what's happening.

35:10KT: Well, they got white gigs.

35:14Oti: Oh. It's, it's

35:16KT: because, you know what the frustrating thing is? This movie can be what it is. It's the way that it's being propped up as something else.

35:23Oti: Yeah. It's speaking on, Ooh, look at all these heavy themes this guy is talking on. You know? Oh, it's picking on a lot of the different things with the revolution in the like, bro,

35:38KT: that's the. It dilutes, it dilutes the struggle. It dilutes the revolution,

35:43Oti: the, the, the pen matters, uh, who holds the pen? So you writing it, I guess, and the decisions made, it just feels like cluster and, and halfway through. You like those scenes in the movie that just made my skin crawl because I knew. The person writing it and I was like, Ugh.

36:03KT: And the people laughing and enjoying it.

36:05Oti: Yeah. And to get the mass, which I expected, which I knew people would fucking laugh at that shit, but then you're like, ugh. You know? And, and it wasn't calling, um, was it calling one of the black babies dirty or some shit, and people laughing and I'm like, I can't disassociate this shit.

36:26KT: Yeah.

36:27Oti: You know? Some people, it's cinema, it's disconnect and all that. But you are willfully talking on shit that's happening. Mm-hmm. And you are willfully portraying it in a way. And I can't, I just couldn't. My soul was heavy and. It felt like so much as the problems that I had with Killers of the Flower Moon, yeah. Are the same things that I have a problem with here,

36:52KT: but this felt more gross, right? Because you would have Martin Scorsese and we love Robert De Niro, but his character in all of Scorsese's movies is like, he's always blaming it on black people, even in Killers of the Flower Moon, where they win and he is like, oh, but they're, they're around. You just don't

37:07Oti: see them. Right? You just don't see them. There has to be those black people somewhere.

37:10KT: If there are crimes, they're definitely around. And I think this is like, you know, friends and lovers look at us coming to a dissecting of, uh, middle aged white men directors. You know, we did a whole Tarantino run. There was a lot of, uh, icky, uncomfortable, unnecessary shit, um, towards black people or black characters, right? So I'm not absolving Tarantino of anything, but I see the difference between a director like Tarantino and this Paul Thomas Anderson and Martin Scorsese because Tarantino. I'm sure he has views and he is expressed views about black people, but the way that he, the way that he cast black characters in his films is to add a sauce, whether that's right or wrong, but he, it adds a flavor to whatever his story is. Martin Scorsese, and this Paul Thomas Anderson, they're casting black actors and characters so they can say what they wanna say about black people. Do you understand what I'm saying?

38:11Oti: Mm-hmm.

38:12KT: It's not an art, it's just their commentary.

38:17Oti: Yeah. Oh, I see. And had no business being three hours long. Let me just be honest. Very few things are, um, This is why maybe sometimes some things act me more. Watching this movie was the audience reaction.

38:33KT: Yeah. And that's why we don't really watch shit outside

38:39Oti: and anyway,

38:42KT: because it wasn't as if. They were conscious, something racist was being said, and they're just being quiet to wait till the next line. They were lapping that shit up because

38:51Oti: it's, it's the way it's being delivered and the way it's being done. It's for them.

38:55KT: It's for them. It's a prepackaged microwaveable meal for them. And,

38:58Oti: and immediately you knew how this movie would be talked about and how this movie will be framed and it'll win. Oscar's just loud, Killers of the Flower Moon won. They'll get a teary, what's his director's face? His name crying somewhere. Mm-hmm. Not the guy who's Paul Anderson. Something. Yeah. Yeah. Crying. Oh yeah. I did it for the revolution. Woo. But

39:23KT: it's really frustrating because I don't even think it deserves. The analytical lens and discourse films come and go, right? But this one just sticks around like stinky ass racisms. Like it just won't go away. Every time I open a Twitter, there is something. Um, shout out to Shayna McHayle, who, uh, is Junglepussy in the film and also, uh, performs as Junglepussy in real life. My pussy don't pop for you. Is is from her. Um, works. I just get really frustrated because again, like it's mana. At the end of the day, if you're gonna pour your creative energy, at least make it be something that doesn't feel exploitative. I wouldn't necessarily say degrading, but.

40:09Oti: You know, it's oversexualized black women on screen for the first 30 minutes of the movie.

40:13KT: But I also wanna make it clear we're all about the empowerment of black women and their sexuality. Hello, P-Val. Check out P-Valley. If you don't even watch P-Val, do you even care about black women's sexuality or you just wanna fucking prop this fucking white man up? Whether it's Leonardo or the fucking director, fuck ya. But what I'm saying is. People don't understand the difference between owning your sexuality and your sexuality being used as an object, because that's what this film was. Yes. Teyana Taylor is so beautiful and in in every sense of the word. We love seeing her embrace her sexuality, but that doesn't mean it's for you. And that's what this film was. She became an object. And I don't care for it. You know, I'm not like, I'm glad she consented to it and, and based on the interviews, she, she enjoyed the performance and I'm glad she did. But the lens is so important and the film is what, the film is not the commentary on what you want to say it is. And one of the last things, unless you have other things to talk about in regards to this film, one of the last things I wanna point out in regards to this is. I wouldn't even say this film is passive. I would say this film is aggressively trying to dilute and stifle actual revolutionary voices because it isn't doing anything. There's a lot of kumbaya, a lot of racist, kumbaya, um, that's going on in this film, and that's what's most frustrating. And that's why I'm gonna make this rotten on Rotten Tomatoes because. It's not a cute, innocuous, inno, uh, fuck off. It's not a cute, ambiguous thing. They're talking about trying to fight for the rights of people and they don't even fucking get there, and they don't even care about the people of the rights that they're trying to protect. Right? If you wanna prop it up, use another aesthetic, because especially in this world, in this political climate. By not saying something in your quote unquote revolutionary movie, it's actually saying more than you think it is with your hampered dick pen. You know what I mean? And that's what's really frustrating about me, like, uh, uh, uh, to me about this film. And also the fact that it half-cocked itself. Half cocked itself because they wanted to base it on a book so it would absolve them from actually having some real commentary and some real reflection. 'cause we haven't even talked about, what do they call it? The Christmas Adventurers Club, or whatever they call them. They're the fucking KKK and call them that, say that they're embedded in the government. Say that a lot of the riches that these fucking white people have gained is through the violence of the KKK, which was sanctioned by the government and was allowed to function. Because as BlacKkKlansman being propped up the way this film is, no, 'cause it, it softens it. All of the white men were bumbling idiots. But that becomes endearing, even the K, k, K, '

43:11Oti: cause now you have people referencing L as the best character ever. Because of his fucking character ness of how he's portrayed.

43:20KT: Yeah. No, but if, if that's what it is, that's what it is. But why do people, it is what it is. Why do people bend over and allow it so easily? That's the problem. '

43:28Oti: cause we're used to bending over. We are used to accepting it. We are used to being seen a certain way, being used a certain way. And we'll lap it up and we'll be like, it's the best thing since sliced bread we'll get awards. Next year we'll get something else similar to this shit.

43:47KT: And we're just, we're just, we're just holding the sheets with the money on the nightstand.

43:51Oti: You need to take the cog off the fucking machine at some point, and we need to realize that A, you've gotta hold some shit to a higher standard and, and you can be as creative with the pen, but don't go. To areas where you're not fully ready to go to and speak on shit that you're not really willing to speak on and portray things that you don't really are ready to portray, then go off and be like, oh, it's based off a fucking book o. Anyway,

44:25KT: I love you and I appreciate you. Yeah. And thank you for going all the way there with me.

44:30Oti: Mm-hmm.

44:31KT: And fuck this guy.

44:33Oti: Fuck this movie.

44:35KT: Well, he is done all the fucking, so maybe we fuck ourselves. Maybe that's the message. Fuck yourself. Thank you friends and lovers for joining us another week in the For Your Reference household. Um, I, I think let, let's bring in some stuff that we actually want people to watch. Before we do that, I will, um, I will yield mine and. Uh, I guess reference the Reference Degustations we've done. So we've done Quentin, um, Tarantino, Jackie Brown. This film's not touching Jackie Brown's fingernail on a good day. Um, we've also done Martin Scorsese and Spike Lee specifically. Go and check out our Spike Lee, uh, Reference Degustation, friends and lovers, and do yourself a favor, go and watch BlacKkKlansman right now. What would you recommend? What, what's something that brings and evokes joy? My love.

45:28Oti: Uh, maybe watching Demon Slayer fifth time. Woo. The, the world is easy without being bogged out by shit.

45:39KT: Absolutely. Uh, on Twitter and Instagram. We're @ForYourRefPod.

45:44Oti: Write us an email at Ffy podcast. I can't even say that shit. Yeah, just write us an email, however you wanna write it. Like

45:51KT: don't

45:51Oti: fucking contact, send it fucking anywhere.

45:53KT: Send, send it anywhere else. He does not want to hear what the fuck you have to say. Um, we're also on bring your whole pussy to your full reviews and don't be scared. Podcast if you like to leave a rating and review. Oh, also forgot to mention, might as well keep it on the podcast. Um, someone called me a harsh critic the other day, 'cause of my Paul Thomas Anderson critique.

46:17Oti: Good.

46:18KT: And they're also black too, so I guess there's layers there. But anyway, I would say offer something, you know, stop

46:24Oti: getting used to shit.

46:26KT: Yeah. Uh, yeah. But that's, yeah, essentially for this week, please don't contact us. We love you. We'll see you on the next one.

46:37Oti: See ya.

46:37KT: Wow.