Pride and Prejudice – Bennett over backwards

Full transcript of Pride and Prejudice – Bennett over backwards.

0:01KT: It is with much dismay, friends and lovers. I am starting off the cold open with a KT PSA on the For Your Reference podcast. It is unfortunate that we do have hashtag fake Darcy's, and I just wanna make it very how dare you? Your input is not welcome, sir. We accept and love Matthew Macfadyen only in Succession. We accept and love Matthew Rhys only in Perry Mason. The only Pamela in is Colin Firth, Mr Darcy, I guess if you like Bridget Jones, and also in this tantalizing episode.

0:44Oti: And shout out to Juan Antonio for playing Mr Darcy in Pride and Prejudice Atlanta. You know, there's only one Darcy and that's Juan Antonio.

0:53KT: I'm pretty sure Jane Austen didn't pay her taxes. So how dare you, Oti. Let's get on with the show. A thousand polite salutations, friends and lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT.

0:53Oti: And Oti.

0:53KT: Find your faculties and meet me at the Billowing Blouse Lake. You are cordially invited as we present ourselves to society with the 1995 BBC miniseries only officially recognized in the FYR household, Pride and Prejudice.

1:53Oti: Oh, sir. You can now breathe.

1:57KT: I can can breathe in Pemberley. Let's continue on with the stats. We have director Simon Langton, famous novel by Jane Austen, probably the best Jane Austen novel, I will say, even aside from the amazing contribution of Colin Firth, Emma is gross. No one cares about Emma. And I will fight any of you motherfuckers that try and tell me that Emma is better than Pride and Prejudice.

2:26Oti: Wow. Yeah. Stakes. Texam Holdem.

2:31KT: Go and listen to our Splooshies Awards. In way of writers, writers, we have Andrew Davies, who you may be familiar with even on this podcast. He was involved in the screenplay of all of the Bridget Jones films. And also he wrote 73 episodes of House of Cards, Oti.

2:31Oti: Wow. 73?

2:31KT: Yeah, so pretty much. That's more than the cards in the deck. Go and listen to our Alice in Borderland episode, didn't really have anything to do with anything, but that's what we do friends and lovers.

3:01KT: The BBC mini series was released on the September 24 in 1995 in The UK. It was aired in the BBC in The UK, PBS in The United States, in the For Your Reference household. It was screened via the DVD set that KT got on her 21st birthday from her colleagues.

3:23Oti: Wow.

3:24KT: Yeah. I can't wait to get into first impressions, Oti. In way of cast, have Colin Firth. It's it's the British Norbit. He just played every character.

3:24Oti: Oh, wow. Okay.

3:24KT: He just played every character. We have Jennifer Ehle and also Susannah Harker as a top three billing in regards to this particular miniseries. But, hoo hoo.

3:49KT: High school KT has still not recovered from the Billowing Blouse Lake, I tell you. Okay. Well, it was it was very much in my Pemberley Pussy Valley for a very long time, Oti. So I would like to start off with you because it's been a while since I've been 21 friends and lovers. So the point is I've had this DVD for a very long time. And I You know, people talk about love being long suffering

4:14KT: and I've long suffered through Breaking Bad. I've long suffered through Game of Thrones. It was finally my time. And I would really like to know, first of all, why you even decided that you wanted I just resigned myself to the fact that my next friend and lover was going to watch this BBC mini series with me. I just gave up on you essentially. Wow. So what made you want to watch this at this particular time?

4:43KT: And I guess what were your first impressions or what you thought it was going to be? Because I'm assuming you haven't read the book so you can pull your glasses and your pants down. And what did you feel actually watching it and after?

4:51Oti: I thought after how many years now? After many many years of being asked.

4:51KT: Don't worry. I'm just not 21 anymore. How about that?

4:51Oti: After many years of being asked to watch this, you know, I thought, you know why not? We gave we gave our Bridget Jones a try with them. I was like, why not? Why not? It was the right time. There was opportunity with Sin, Colin Firth and pretty much everything.

5:18Oti: And this was just a missing piece. And I was like, that's completely for KT at the very least. And I was pleasantly surprised. I didn't think that I'd enjoy it as much as I did. Mhmm. I think that was the most shocking thing for me. I was like waiting there just wanting a reason to hate it. Yep. And there wasn't any. Well, despite Darcy's best efforts and

5:42Oti: I hung on there and it was it was a well told story. It's not the best thing that I've ever seen.

5:42KT: Alright. You can stop there. Oh, wow. Hey.

5:52KT: I did mention that there would be a future friend or lover. So continue. Continue my present, but maybe not future lover.

6:01Oti: But wow, like stellar performances, I don't think I've seen Jennifer Ehle a lot.

6:01KT: No, you've seen her. She's in that show with the guy that's in Insidious

6:10KT: where wherever TV show he's in, it gets canceled.

6:14Oti: Patrick Wilson. Yes.

6:16KT: Add Patrick Wilson to the list with Will Arnett. We love GOB, but these are truths we know to be true. I'm Boris Kodjoe, man.

6:27Oti: You see Boris Kodjoe in any anything? You're like, yeah. Enjoy your few episodes, mate.

6:27KT: You you are bringing a particular spice.

6:37KT: Spice that the Brittonians went around the world looking for. Oh, wow. Pride and Prejudice Atlanta and now Boris Kodjoe? Wow. Thank you, Oti. You're turning this into Bridgerton.

6:49Oti: Wow. You're welcome. You're welcome. Yeah. I thought she was brilliant. Like I did not know what my expectations were, but clearly they were met.

6:49KT: Okay. But what about Colin Firth? I'm not hearing what I wanna hear.

6:49Oti: Darcy isn't the best guy, is he?

6:49KT: Did he not girdle your loins?

6:49Oti: No, not really.

6:49KT: Confused girdle, but still girdle.

6:49Oti: Mate, the guy was super stuck up regardless of what you think. Like, you can't be that angry and that annoyed and then say really shitful things

7:22Oti: and then what? And this is the same thing I said in Bridget Jones. What? Hey.

7:28KT: Shout outs to Em from Verbal Diorama. Make sure you go and check out our podcast and also our collaboration episode on Bridget Jones.

7:36Oti: What about you? What about your first impressions? Did you read the book in high school or was it like a telethon you guys used to have instead of studying? A telethon? Don't know what you called it.

7:49KT: When did they stop using beepers where you were from? Jesus. Acutely enough, when we thought we were going to dabble into YouTube, the birth of hashtag fake Oti, we did do a series where we praise and accolade actors. We have a Daniel Kaluuya video. We also have a Colin Firth video where I go into a bit more detail and visually sploosh off screen. So we read the book and then we were allowed to watch the BBC mini series in part. So not in full completion, even though my splooshes were.

8:28KT: Our high school teacher was Jehovah Witness and it was an all girls school. And he didn't like the idea of us getting hot and heavy watching Colin Firth. So he didn't let us watch too much of it. He even fast forward the leg scene. Wow. Which explains a lot of my kinks, but we're not getting into Yeah. That I really didn't know anything about TV, film or anything.

8:52KT: You know, I am going to be that wanker and I'm going to pull both of my monocles up. Colin Firth is the only Darcy to ever exist. I don't think anyone thought Robert Pattinson would make Edward even to this day. But yeah, Colin Firth was all there through and through. Can I just say, if the people in the Bible look like Colin Firth, I would be at the altar every Sunday? You of all people should be scrutinous,

9:21KT: you know? I even have a note here when we later on talk about Wickham, be wary of people that are charming and agreeable when you first meet them.

9:21Oti: Guarantee you, if Darcy was poor, Elizabeth does not look at him a second time.

9:21KT: She doesn't seem like she's the one to marry for riches though.

9:21Oti: Up until she went to Pemberley.

9:21KT: There was a Lisa, Coming to America moment that we'll talk about, but let's not taint let's not taint our characters now. Friends

9:54KT: and lovers, this will be the first and only time I do not give a spoiler warning. Yes, we are going to talk about the show, but the splooshes vicariously through mine self to your ears is most welcome. Wow. So fucking join us on the journey. Get on your first dicks and snap it off, friends and lovers.

10:16KT: And you know what? It's really my perverted mind because even in high school, we thought like sexual things were happening, but there wasn't. And even when we watched it, there was really no sexual scene. So it's really me filthing this up or firthing it up if you're part in the pussy valley. Wow. To me,

10:33Oti: like watching Darcy, I do not fucking understand how anyone looks at this guy and thinks Jesus fucking Christ. He's a he's a good bastard. He's a catch. Because the fuck

10:46KT: he's precious man. Bust impressions a lot. He is the sexiest onion Shrek layer I've ever seen. You just need to get to know him, know? Unravel the onion layers, my love. You're

10:58Oti: beneath my station. My body regurgitates. It's food looking at you and even thinking about my feelings for you. And then the person that says this, you're all swooning over. Yeah. Because you have the fucking best estate in in in town. Don't try Malcolm and Marie this shit, you motherfucker.

11:18KT: See, I thought you came in with well intentions, but it seems like you're just here to ambush me in my miniseries.

11:18Oti: No. My intentions are well. And I think at least I'm consistent in my in my in my views of both Colin Firth and Bridget Jones and in this.

11:18KT: Well, let's just say you watching Bridget Jones helped you understand the storyline of this as well. Right?

11:18Oti: It did. And I think it even made me understand Bridget Jones better.

11:18KT: So how do you feel about the setting of the show? Because it's not exactly like Spartacus.

11:50KT: It's not exactly like Game of Thrones, but there is a couple of steps away from modern English speaking. And it's a bit more modern than Shakespeare, but there is a certain way of speaking that isn't, you know, modern day English speaking. Did you find it hard to, like latch onto it? Did the setting feel like something that didn't resonate? Did you find it hard to get into the show essentially?

11:50Oti: I did find it hard to get into the show.

12:20Oti: I think one of my first ventures into old English was Merchant of Venice where we had to perform and cram and do everything because it was all sort of set book in school. So I was fully in this, the language didn't throw me off. I found it quite interesting. You know, it's not every day, even though I need the subtitles because man those accents too. I'll just go over your head. But the setting I think was really good. I think it really gave a decent visualization

12:55Oti: of the time and I didn't feel as if I was being taken into a modern era or anything of the sort. I think it also helped that you're watching it on your old ass DVD with like four twenty p. So it gave you that vintage look.

13:14KT: Dickhead.

13:15Oti: You're welcome.

13:16KT: I do have a note while I was watching this and I said, I really need to stop watching beloved shows of Oti.

13:16Oti: Wow. I don't know. I don't see why you'd say that.

13:16KT: I'm pretty sure the the duration of this podcast thus far is proof.

13:33Oti: I'll I'll at least I was open to it. And I think I did really enjoy it in in terms of story. I did have a few issues here and there, but I think we'll just get into it once we start talking about the plot.

13:46KT: Alright. Well, let's go through characters. If you've listened to our Perry Mason, Matthew Rhys only as Perry Mason, not Pemberley, or if you've listened to our Pussy Valley episode, it's going to follow a very similar format where we go through characters, proximity characters, and obviously we'll be discussing the story points as we go along. Everything is very relative. Elizabeth Bennett was, and I would say even to this day, still very progressive in her views. What we mean by relative progression, go and watch One Night in Miami and look at Jim Brown's particular storyline.

14:28KT: Like, not the greatest, but for that particular time, they were leading the standard essentially. So very, you know, dynamic sort of setup we have here with Elizabeth Bennett. She has a mind of her own. She's very close to her father, you know, because they're very cheeky together. The mother is always having some sort of umbrage in some direction. She turns at the flip of a coin, which I don't care for, but we'll get to the mother. But Elizabeth Bennett is really living and being very conscious

15:03KT: of the society where women need to be presented. And they're essentially being offered ready for courtship, thus marriage. And that's pretty much all the value that women have. You know, she she doesn't necessarily see herself as offering beauty even though obviously she's fucking gorgeous. It's it's it's nice to think that that ugly people are still pretty on TV. It all gives us hope when we use the makeup filter on our camera and we the day we realized that it was a makeup filter.

15:39KT: You know, but she does have brains and she does have a quick wit about her. So definitely I can relate in a lot of senses. But I really I really enjoyed her character. I think I really enjoyed reading about her type of character, you know, in high school because a lot of the time, even if you go back to Shakespeare, you talk about Romeo and Juliet. Like, you know, women weren't really regarded. And if they were, they were regarded with a certain sense of resentment,

16:12KT: you know. Like I have to take care of you, you should be grateful for that. So yeah, Pride and Prejudice definitely offered something different. There's obviously a lot of themes in regards to social class and the perceptions of those on high looking down below. I do not believe we are going to get into a Parasite battle as we did in regards to social status. But given how Oti is choosing to handle this episode, we might be fighting about something else.

16:46KT: How did you feel about Elizabeth Bennett?

16:46Oti: I think she was really good. I think she was very progressive. I didn't expect that from her, especially knowing who, you know, how she was raised and how the mother was. I think once you get to see the relationship with the father, you're like, very nice. I think she got a lot of leeway to be independent based on the support from the father, which I think will play that really pivotal part for who she ended up being as a person. I

17:17Oti: really enjoyed the relationship with Jane as well. You could see that they're bond that they would talk intellectual things that they'd have arguments about intellectual things. Something that she couldn't do with her other sisters. So you know that there's a bond automatically. Like she's a very, very solid character in this. Yeah. But easily swayed by Yeah. Very easily swayed by opinions and without any sort of proof, especially when, you know, someone really goes out of their way to really slander another person at every single opportunity they get. Yeah. Usually it'd be like, what the fuck? Let it be, man.

17:53KT: Like it's I think she gets that quality from her mom. As much as she thinks that she's adopted nothing from her mother, she's definitely got that flippant, you know, at the turn of a coin. Oh yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I definitely understand that. And it's interesting because maybe Actually no, just in general, like since having this podcast, I feel like I watch things a lot differently. Things like Coming to America that we call back from earlier.

18:28KT: The experience was much different. The 1988 and also the 2021 version, we will be putting it up on our Patreon if you guys are interested. Otherwise, it's not going to be a main episode for many unfortunately disappointing reasons. But I didn't necessarily pick up on that when I watched it the however million many times I've watched I didn't I guess I didn't realize how flip floppy she was.

18:55Oti: It's weird because when I was watching it, I was thinking cool, you know, it's one thing to have an opinion based off someone, especially when Darcy came off as really snobbish and you'd expect, I don't know, you'd expect some sort of, you know, it's not like the story was super hard to believe, you know, but the point that she kept on going back and forth based off nothing and I was like, come on now, come on.

19:27KT: But you sir, are a man of dignity, are you not? So if someone was to slander your name, I feel like you wouldn't really even give the energy to explain yourself. It's If people believe that, you're just gonna let them believe that because what's the fucking point of having to explain yourself. True?

19:27Oti: Yeah. Because I rarely care about other people.

19:27KT: But that's what I mean. That's Darcy. Right? He was never guilty throughout the whole thing. And it might even just be because he was trying to save the shame of his sister. Right? That he didn't share anything.

19:59KT: But on some sort of level, you can relate to Darcy in the sense that if people wanna think ill of you, then just let them think that because you're not going to have to explain yourself, which I think is very opposite to me. I get really pissed off. It's like, you can think I'm a bitch, but don't think I'm a bitch for that specific reason. You're just a dickhead. Right?

20:21KT: But you don't even you don't even bother to get in the trenches for that sort of thing. Right? So in that particular sense, you can understand Darcy and why he didn't feel the need to or why he didn't even go out of his way to explain that.

20:21Oti: Yeah. I do see that. I really do. And I think one of the things that really

20:41Oti: got me was his reaction to hearing Elizabeth really slander him or say really hurtful things about him. Yeah. And you're like, Cole, where does this lady get off? You know, you're really just slandering someone in front of their face saying very hurtful things Yep. Unverified things. She didn't especially when they'd gotten to talk and they had established some sort of rapport. You'd think that maybe should bring it up in a conversation and be like, hey, you know what I was told? Wickham said ABC. How hard is that?

21:14KT: Yeah. As much as she was portrayed as being level headed, she definitely had a gossipy sort of nature about her because any grown person that doesn't want drama People that say they don't want drama definitely want drama. But the people that have drama gravitate towards them, it was unnecessary. She's old enough to know like how to appropriately approach particular topics. And that's what I don't get like, because it was so fiery, like you were saying. One second she would be head over heels in love with him.

21:49KT: She's she's so worked up, she needed to move to a second location to finish writing her letter. But then the other moment, she completely hates him. And I guess that talks to toxic relationships and unfortunately, I need to add this to the list of toxic relationships in media. Wow. Do you think they were good for each other?

21:49Oti: Yes. Once they started

22:09Oti: talking and stopped hiding behind the veneer of social class, their fallacy of not being interested in each other, Then you start having real conversations and you start having, you know, you start seeing the person for who he is. And I think that connection didn't really happen until Darcy had to do a selfless act of paying off the debts that Wickham had, And you that's when Elizabeth found out, she was like, oh man, he's really a good man. I do really love him.

22:09KT: So you have to I really want to see Pemberley.

22:46KT: So you have to pay off your siblings, spouse's debt in order to know that they're a good man. Oh, yeah. Otherwise,

22:53Oti: throw them in the trash.

22:57KT: She she definitely milked Darcy's teats for all of the money, her gorgeousness, and her wit was worth. I will say something generally, but also specifically in regards to this mini series. Also, how dare you, Oti? Why am I holding this to so much scrutiny? Why can't I just enjoy this like Rush Hour for example? But I will say this, I do believe there needs to be some sort of equilibrium in regards to a coupling or throuple or any sort of intimate partnership

23:33KT: that people have. And what I mean by that is, I do find it hard to believe that someone super awesome mega rich and someone that isn't that can fully sustainably love each other and that love be enough to sustain them for decades to come. And I guess the other example I would bring for that is, like people that people that have been through shit in their life compared to people that had their parents hug them and say they love them and say they're amazing. There's kind of like an imbalance in the struggle

24:08KT: that will never really be understood. I'm not necessarily saying it's impossible and power to you guys if you've achieved that out there in this cold cold world. I don't know. Call me the Grinch of love if you will, but I'm just saying like, sometimes people get caught up in trying to save someone.

24:30KT: And is it even love? Is it just a way to get through things? And also, guess just taking it from the point of view of a story. Like there are so many rom coms that are fucking stupid and people shouldn't even be together. And if it's for media, then that's fine. If it's for consumption, then it's fine. But Malcolm

24:47KT: and Marie taught me that people are living really toxic lives and apparently it's fine. So I guess my point is there needs to be some sort of equilibrium. I'm not saying only rich people can be with rich people, only sexy people can be with sexy people, but that's kind of what we stumbled on in the For Your Reference podcast. The latter. We're not. Please don't look at our taxes. We're fine. Thank you very much.

24:47Oti: I'm a romantic.

25:12KT: You are.

25:12Oti: Even if you find it hard to believe, it's I think love should be able to conquer all regardless of class, creed, race and all that nonsense. You know, I truly do believe that. So in this case, didn't think that, oh, because Elizabeth has been through shit growing up, then her and Darcy are incompatible or anything like that. I really didn't get any of that vibe on essence because all that can be learned, know, all the hoity-toity nonsense. She could land up pretty quickly in Pemberley.

25:48Oti: So it's not like she'll be at that station forever. Once she got married into that thing, then it's all good. And the fact that they had a double wedding, you know, that surprised me.

25:48KT: Yeah. She's really really charging her expenses to the Pemberley

26:04KT: estate. Let's come to that because Elizabeth does mention near the end of the mini series that she knew she loved him seeing the Pemberley estate.

26:16Oti: Yep. I say she a gold digger.

26:24KT: It felt like the last, well, pretty much the last sort of lines in Coming to America 1988, where you have this very strong woman, which unfortunately has kind of become a trope now, but most enjoyably in South Park. Where you have Elizabeth Bennett, you also have Lisa in Coming to America and they're known for speaking their mind, Right? Whether it turns a man off, whether it means that she's going to sustain her own future. And like Lisa, undid everything in Coming to America

27:04KT: by saying she's she wants to accept all of these riches and everything that comes along with it. Elizabeth Bennett pretty much did the same thing. I think she even took a step further to outrightly

27:15Oti: say, I fell in love with Darcy the minute I saw Pemberley. I knew I loved

27:21KT: you before I Pemberley.

27:28Oti: Yeah. Because I've seen where she walks into Pemberley and sees the how grand it is. How beautiful it is. I think she was just making plans, mate. I'm gonna put the cup in this. I don't like these curtains. She was fully writing it on, you know. Oh, this is this is this is my house now.

27:52KT: But it it definitely tonally wasn't what we were seeing with Elizabeth. So I I for the sake of me being able to enjoy this mini series for many decades to come, hopefully in a cottage where I make my own scones. I'm just going to believe because entertainment. Like, you know how we talk about because Christmas and all of the wiry storylines tie themselves into a bow. I'm just gonna say because entertainment. I I will say that it had nothing to do with her character

28:23KT: and it was for the sad motherfuckers at home that wanted to see Pemberley and wanted to cut their faces out and put it on Elizabeth Bennett's face.

28:23Oti: Well, then again, that was their whole objective.

28:35Oti: That was like this sole reason for them being brought up this way is to find a rich man. Once you put up out there and you're ready to get wedded, then it was pretty obvious that you want to land a rich man. So maybe for the time, it's not as as bad as it sounds.

28:35KT: Okay, historian Oti.

28:35Oti: I'm just saying, like the mother knew that she really did want the best for her kids. She wanted her kids to have a better life than what she had. Not to worry about money,

29:09Oti: not to worry about all the nonsense. And however you wanted to take her as a character from extreme or not, I think she really did want the very, very, very best for her kids. And that sort of rubs off. So when Elizabeth does say that I knew I loved Darcy, the minute I saw Pemberley, then you know what? Get yours girl.

29:32KT: Well no, because you also said she flip flop flip flop flip flop. And then the decider was his riches.

29:40Oti: Yeah. I'm just trying to see a way in which I can understand this especially when it comes to a period piece. Then we have to sort of take our minds to that sort of mindset.

29:53KT: Yes. They're saying don't apply modern ideals on that time.

29:56Oti: Yeah. So it's just safe to assume gold digging was at its peak back then. It was a sport.

30:05KT: Well, the only other suitor she had was her cousin. And according to Mr Collins, cousins were fair game.

30:11Oti: So she could have just framed it that way. Mr Collins looked like that rat motherfucker in Harry Potter. But wow. Yeah. The cousin thing was a bit weird. But then again, for the time, we know these things happen even now.

30:25KT: Nah. Unless it's George Michael and Maeby in Arrested Development. I don't think I ever wanna see a cousin to cousin relation.

30:34Oti: How many fa how many steps was he removed from being a cousin? Literal cousin. Like

30:41KT: you said, don't apply modern ideals on the setting of the time.

30:47Oti: Man. Guess if it's not your brother or sister, it's fair game.

30:55KT: Well, yeah. Like you're saying, don't apply modern ideals. Yeah. So don't go around fucking where there's already been fucked essentially. But I, yeah, I don't know. It's interesting because I guess we're getting to the point now. I love Pride and Prejudice just to watch Colin Firth because if I focus too much on the relationship element, it doesn't hold up at all. It just doesn't work. She does become that flimsy damsel in distress and yeah, it doesn't hold up at all. So in that sense, I do understand and I do agree, but I still love this show.

31:32Oti: Yeah. Yeah. I get it. And I think one of the reasons that I really sort of despise romance in movies generally is the fact that you'd get a very strong character in a woman and then once they fall in love, they sort of flip and they're like, oh, I can't do anything now. I'm like, bloody hell, mate. You are living your best life a few seconds ago. Are you waiting for me to get pink and fluffy?

31:32KT: Oh, mate. That happened ages ago. Have you listened to the podcast? You

32:08KT: are definitely the romantic, my love.

32:08Oti: I know. I know.

32:08KT: Okay. Let's talk about the Terrence Howard of Pemberley. Let's talk about Wickham.

32:08Oti: Man, Wickham Wickham Wickham. He is he's a problem, isn't he? Yeah. He's a bloody problem. You know, he he had a chance to be part of the Darcy family, however, in what form. Uh-huh. But he took advantage. He wanted to elevate himself above his supposed station. And he did that really grossly,

32:39Oti: know? And I think he felt really entitled and the fact that everything just sour between him and Darcy, especially in Darcy finding out exactly what he is and what he did. Yeah. Then he was like, you know what? Gonna flip this. I'm gonna make Darcy the worst sort of kind of character and tell it to the whole bloody world. Yeah. Pretty much.

32:58KT: And I I like I don't get people like that and I'm glad I don't really have people in my inner circles that are like that. But constantly spinning a story. Even when there's no reason, you're just sitting there trying to breathe, minding your business. And then Wickham will bring up some stupid story that has nothing to do with anything. Oh, know, you know, I've been living, you know, someone when I was a kid,

33:22Oti: Darcy's father really loved me. It's then strangers. Like people he doesn't even know.

33:27KT: He's already trying to recruit them into his camps of sympathy.

33:31Oti: Man, Elizabeth's father saw that right through that. Oh, absolutely. Within seconds.

33:37KT: Yeah. Absolutely ridiculous and disgusting. And he had a pattern of behavior that I don't think was really called out in the show, you know, Unfortunately, he was able to influence impressionable Georgiana. She was underage and then Lydia was underage. And it gets to a point where it's like, oh, it wasn't just because Georgiana was super rich. Like this guy is a problem. Yeah.

34:05Oti: And the fact that like the least sort of the least worst case scenario for them was, oh, let's pay your debts and actually marry her to make everything legitimate, which was then again, sign of the times, I guess.

34:05KT: Thank you, Harry Oti Styles.

34:05Oti: You're welcome.

34:05KT: Let's talk about

34:26KT: the best and the worst characters, Mr and Mrs Bennett.

34:30Oti: Wow. Fire and ice.

34:33KT: Thank you, George Oti R. R. Martin.

34:35Oti: You're welcome. They are completely different. I even wonder how he married her.

34:41KT: Maybe he it was an arranged marriage. Maybe he had to marry her. Most definitely. I do not see any other way. Because he's so charming and he's so sweet and he's very hoity. And Mrs Bennett is really one of Mrs Bennett is like me when we're doing house chores and I pretend I have a headache so I don't have to clean with you. Mhmm. Mhmm. There was also a point where, you know, her constant dramatic sort of moments turned a bit sinister. And she was wishing for Jane

35:18KT: to to have died from being so sick so Bingley would feel guilty. Like, you know, on some levels I could resonate with that.

35:28Oti: But it felt like a lot. It did feel like a lot. But then again, you'd also contrast that with her getting really angry at Darcy for what he said about Elizabeth and all that. Oh man, I really cannot understand her. She is a flip flopper if I've ever seen one. Yeah. Like what minute should be angry, rightly so a Darcy Mhmm. And then say such really ridiculous things about the daughter and you're like, you can't have this. These two cannot coexist.

36:02KT: Yeah, exactly.

36:04Oti: They can't, they just can't. But I got a sense that she really does care about her daughters and she really does. She just does it in a non conventional sort of way.

36:13KT: I just she's she's always moaning about something and it's like, come on lady. And the way yeah. The way she would talk shit about Bingley and then as soon as Bingley comes around, he's the number one king. And I think Mr Bennett is right to just ignore her most of the time. You have no idea how I grieve. I think I'm gonna use that on you. You already do. It's role play, dude. Mhmm.

36:43Oti: No. Not for Mrs Bennett. Come on now. She's but a lady.

36:48KT: Mhmm.

36:49Oti: What did you think about Mary? I think they I think the caricature they tried to portray her as was really wrong. This was meant to be a really clever person, someone that's a really cerebral and then they tried to put her as dumb as well. And I'm like, stick to a lane. Yeah. Like she she didn't see the need for courtship, any of that nonsense. She was interested in her books, trying to play her piano, everything to elevate herself intellectually.

37:22KT: She's what Elizabeth Bennett thought she was.

37:25Oti: Yeah. And then to turn that sort of strive into some sort of, oh, she's so dorky in a way that is unattractive and she doesn't really get it. Yeah. She can't be with anyone, you know, even her fucking cousin was like, nah, man.

37:44KT: I didn't touch him.

37:46Oti: The hot ones.

37:47KT: Only the hot cousins I will accept.

37:50Oti: That was ridiculous. And I thought like, shit, if everyone just behave like fucking hell, I'm not living to be here for a man, actually have a life beyond that, then it makes fucking sense.

37:58KT: No. But at the same time, you can't really commandeer someone else's party and start singing obnoxiously and playing the piano. She was rightfully so and treated like Meg from Family Guy.

38:12Oti: Well, Lauren told us she was fucking bad. That's their problem.

38:19KT: Actually, yeah. They kind of just try to, you know, in theater when they would have the cane and pull them off the stage. It was kind of like that sort of moment. But she was very much the Meg.

38:29Oti: And I think she was fine with that to a particular point. Yeah. It was just a weird portrayal for me. I think they really didn't know what to do with her especially for someone who had a little bit of more intellect than her other sisters. And you could see that the other sister Lydia and Kitty got more or sort of a better storyline rather than,

38:50Oti: you know, Mary who really didn't want to focus on men all the time. Lydia and Kitty were super flirty all about

38:50KT: They're young girls. That's what young girls do. And like

39:00KT: far be it from me to want to wish anything for the world, but it would be nice for young girls to be able to go out there and be cute and flirty and not have danger fall upon them. But unfucking fortunately, the constant through the ages is women can't do that. Young women can't do that rather.

39:00Oti: They can do what they want but don't portray

39:21Oti: a person who's not into that as some sort of dweeb or whatever the hell they wanted to portray Mary as. Yeah, I get that. I get that.

39:32KT: You know, we talked a lot about particularly Mrs Bennett. You know, today parents trade their kids for likes on social media. In Pride and Prejudice, Mrs Bennett traded her kids for status.

39:45Oti: A 100%. They were having financial issues. They were having real problems. The problems that Mr Bennett was just, you know, ignoring or he wasn't even probably solving it. He was going out of his way not to look at it. Yeah. Yeah. And then once you realize just how deep they were in debt and how troublesome

40:06Oti: that was, then I can sort of understand Mrs Bennett's mentality and trying to get everyone a better better status even for themselves. It's the way Even she if it's marrying the cousin. Okay. You need to stop circling on this cousin angle.

40:21KT: Just I

40:23Oti: don't know why they wild got all strict all of a sudden.

40:27KT: The next family reunion is going to get very interesting, Oti. No. But it was also the way she conducted herself. It was embarrassing. You know, Elizabeth and Jane being the older ones, it was very embarrassing to be at a party and the mom is crying and carrying on about how Mr Darcy did Elizabeth wrong about Mr Bingley doing Jane wrong. It's embarrassing. Yeah. And even her gossip circle were embarrassed for her. It was like the OG Real Housewives of Pemberley. Because they hung around her, but they also judged her at

41:03KT: the same time. Speaking of judging, I wanna talk about Caroline Bingley for a second. She's also in Pennyworth, by the way.

41:03Oti: Was she?

41:03KT: The insufferable woman in the movement. That's her. What did you think about Caroline Bingley? I it was frustrating, but it was because the story was told from the point of view of the Bennetts.

41:23KT: But I also don't expect anything more from someone like Caroline Bingley. Oh, man. She was a problem, wasn't she? Yeah. Man, at least if you were into Darcy that much, just say so. Just tell him. But I feel like she seems like the type well, maybe she wouldn't tell him but she would force herself upon him and embarrass herself multiple times.

41:45Oti: Because how does he know? He seems thick ass as well in terms of that thing in terms of that sort of

41:45KT: Yes. He does have a thick ass. Don't look at my tumbler.

41:54KT: Wow.

41:57Oti: But she's she's really ridiculous in this. She thinks she's entitled to Darcy because of her station.

42:04KT: Well, it's like it's logical. Right? You know, if if if he's rich, if she's rich, it makes sense that they'll be together. I think that was more insulting to her that he would wanna be with some that's not even rich. She did everything in her power, you know, to even keep Jane away from the brother. She's spiteful. She has nothing else to do really.

42:27KT: I also wanna give a Greyhound shout out, our executive producer dog shout out because Mr Darcy does have Greyhounds and I did write write down that it's a point of wealth because Greyhounds are not helpful for security.

42:42Oti: Cat dog, cat dog.

42:45KT: Like if you're getting dogs as a function to also be practical, you're not going to get greyhounds. I just wanna rattle off some notes I've been making. If if anyone's interested, I do post whenever I make notes and Oti on our Patreon. Mr Bennett took two weeks to reply to a letter because it required urgent attention. When did handsome stop being used for women? I like the idea of being called handsome.

43:14Oti: You're handsome. Thank you, Bringing it back. Bringing it all back. You're beautiful. Thank you. James Blunt, trademark.

43:21KT: And I will end on this. Why is Colin Firth Sherlock Holmes not happened yet? I like the idea of him punching people in cobble path streets. Woo hoo hoo. If you would like to continue the discussion, meet me at the Blouse Billowing Lake, Friends and lovers, otherwise we are ending in a segment we call For Your Reference. Oti.

43:21Oti: I'll reference

43:44Oti: Bridget Jones, just because after watching this, it all made sense.

43:49KT: Wow. Very nice. Continuing along the Colin Firth love train, I would like to reference a very beautiful heartbreaking love story, A Single Man. If you like to follow us in between episodes on a day to day basis on Twitter and Instagram, we're @ForYourRefPod. Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also on Pembler podcast if you like to leave a rating or review, and we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.