Ludwig – Jigsaw Origin Story

Full transcript of Ludwig – Jigsaw Origin Story.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household and it is another full review, Oti. What is this, 2019? We'll find out soon enough.

0:13Oti: look.

0:14KT: Any time, linear or not, is a great time with you, Oti. Let's get on with the show. Hey friends and crossword puzzle lovers, welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host KT.

0:29Oti: And Oti.

0:32KT: Put down the puzzle and connect through love and friendship with Ludwig this Woohoo. Is it Ludwig or is it Ludwig?

0:47Oti: Ludwig?

0:49KT: I think that's how they said it in the series. But then there's also, welcome to our triple

0:55Oti: to triple horn.

1:00KT: You just interrupted my triple horn linguistic special. That's a criminal mind and big love for your references, Oti.

1:10Oti: aren't

1:12KT: Uh, because I'm pretty sure Ludwig Göransson, the one that did the Black Panther soundtrack, as well as worked with Donald Glover. I'm pretty sure it's pronounced Ludwig.

1:22Oti: Oh, that's a different Ludwig. We're talking about British Ludwig.

1:29KT: You need a start. I'm surprised you didn't fly all the way to see Daniel Kaluuya's statue.

1:36Oti: That's next on our list for sure.

1:38KT: Are we going to replace the bean

1:45Oti: we going to replace the bean flicking couch with the Kaluuya falling statue? Oh

2:04KT: A quaint, gorgeous, uh, six episode affair, not The Affair. Shout out to Dominic West, who we love. Uh, Maura Tierney as well.

2:15Oti: Yeah, and Ruth Wilson.

2:17KT: Well, depends which part of The Affair you were on. But yes, this was a very nice series. and you know, we've got some time, we've got some time. and I'm, I'm excited to talk about this cause this is very specific and, you know, we're just going to get into our fields today, I think.

2:36Oti: Yeah, a hundred

2:37KT: while we're here, friends and lovers, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. Mystery, mystery, mystery.

2:46Oti: Wow.

2:46KT: I'm working, I'm working on auditioning for the David Mitchell memoir, friends and lovers. If you would like to hear me, narrate David Mitchell's memoir, audio book, please contact his agents and also say it's okay for me to contact him. Thank you.

3:04Oti: Well, let's

3:06KT: But let's get into our thoughts. Non spoilers for now, but we will get into spoilers. Friends and lovers. Take it away, Oti.

3:14Oti: Ludwig captivates with its quirky blend of mystery and humour. The puzzles and characters are brilliantly intriguing, keeping you hooked as the plot cleverly unravels. A must watch for Mitchell fans? for Mitchell fans, he has a fun biz out there outs to

3:33KT: Shoutouts to all of the crew at Would I Lie to You? And this is where you start to realize, friends and lovers, we watch more British TV than Australian TV. All right, well, let me get into mine and we can get into the show. David Mitchell has a specific charm that sets up the world of Ludwig for intriguing puzzles and fuzzy feels.

3:58Oti: Aw, that's nice.

4:00KT: Friends and lovers. Um, I'm not sure if you've seen the show High Potential. but I think we were doing that thing where we usually try out different pilots and we see where we want to pick things up. if I could contrast both of these shows, since we had started watching both of them at the same time.

4:21KT: High Potential is cool, but it kind of doesn't set up its world for fancy like in the way that Ludwig does, but even, uh, Gina Torres, uh, but before Gina Torres, before Pearson, The Good Fight, The Good Wife. But The Good Fight was more what I was watching with you, right? It's definitely set in real life. There's very real things that go on in The Good Fight as well as Elsbeth, as well.

4:50KT: These are really great example of shows that sometimes cover crime, but it allows the world to be able to stretch into fancy and a little bit of whimsical nonsense sometimes.

5:05Oti: Yeah.

5:06KT: And I mean that in the greatest way. So High Potential, I think, didn't really allow itself to go there. It didn't allow, it was very rigid. and I gave a lot of great examples, whether it's a Good Fight, or Elsbeth and Ludwig does that as well. I think it does it very well that you're satiated and you're well lubricated, for the quirks and the cutesy of the

5:29Oti: I think for me, I went into it knowing that I'm probably going to love it because it's David Mitchell. And Just because I know his, his humor and I knew I'd be with it because even as soon as we had some of the jokes, I was like, fuck sakes, this is David Mitchell, right?

5:49KT: You'll come to find, friends and lovers, I do have a type.

5:52Oti: don't know who wrote it.

5:53KT: Is it the Oti type or is it the David Mitchell type? Who knows? But they all have pocket squares.

5:59Oti: this big. Didn't you just say your humour

6:05KT: him? I didn't

6:09Oti: say it was similar to his. I just said I knew I love his type of humour. And I knew what I would get from this show and I knew that I'd love it from the get go. So my barrier to entry was very, very low. Actually, it was non existent.

6:24KT: Okay.

6:26Oti: Jesus Christ. What did I do?

6:31KT: I'm offended that you're offended.

6:33Oti: No, it just felt, it felt quite violent, fam.

6:37KT: Well, I like my violence and warm sweaters. How about sweaters and hot kisses and cold ice cream.

6:46Oti: pocket squares, apparently.

6:49KT: Pocket squares and warm kisses. There you go, friends. Again, that's the audiobook memoir that I will be narrating for David Mitchell. It's gonna be a thing. Let it happen.

7:00Oti: Gavin Belson and David Mitchell come cross crossover.

7:05KT: I would also like to see, uh, Tom Rosenthal there as well. Don't you think him and David Mitchell would be like really good together?

7:16Oti: would be such a quirky show. No,

7:19KT: like father, son, familiar size. I'm thinking they like, try to get the affection. It's like a love triangle. It's like Bridget Jones, but it's Tom Rosenthal and David Mitchell. Choose your woman player.

7:34Oti: How did

7:37KT: Thandiwe Newton. Oh,

7:38Oti: about the world

7:41KT: Or if Thandiwe is busy, Gugu Mbatha-Raw.

7:43Oti: was, I

7:45KT: yeah.

7:46Oti: in

7:48KT: how did you feel about the world building?

7:52Oti: think. going and getting, you know, being introduced to John, I think you sort of saw the dynamics that would be a play. And especially when you had such a strong supporting cast, you know, we had Anna Maxwell Martin, she's amazing. So straight off the bat, their interactions are like, Oh, you know how this show is going to pan out.

8:18Oti: It's just how they're going to make the cases either intriguing or kept the overarching storyline interesting up until the point where we were like oh it's not giving anything away it doesn't feel forced and I think they did it quite well especially with the pacing because you're getting six episodes and by the end of it I was like I enjoyed, I can't, I cannot wait for season two, but knowing it's a British show, it might take another six years before we get season two, but I'll be here for

8:53KT: Well We said spoilers, friends and lovers, they did kind of set up to have a second You know what I'm going to say that is very controversial? Okay, there are different parameters and criteria in which you can evaluate, critique, review a series. I feel like I enjoyed this more than I enjoyed Cumberbatch's Sherlock. Well I didn't talk about the writing etc performance, etc. I'm just saying I had

9:47Oti: I can't be with you on that

9:50KT: It's okay, I can be with David Mitchell narrating his memoir.

9:55Oti: I feel like Sherlock outside of its final season Maybe not even final season final episode because that's where they just made a mess out of Have you even done Sherlock? We need to do Sherlock. We need to do Sherlock game because there's so many qualms

10:11KT: you can say, because we haven't even reviewed Sherlock. We reviewed this first.

10:21Oti: Oh madness. but

10:23KT: inquire about Cumberbatch and Barbados and then come back to me, Oti. Well, let's, let's talk about the genre. Uh, the genre being, I guess, because of the way that the world is positioned, it is very much in the vein of, uh, like an Agatha Christie at times.

10:45Oti: feels very Agatha Christie.

10:47KT: Um, so how did you feel about, I guess, the intrigue of the mystery and the puzzle? And you know what? No one Heh, heh, heh, heh. Friends and lovers. If you can find a full review that covers the Ludwig and also will reference the anime Tomodachi Game Heh, heh, heh, heh. I, I would be hard pressed for you to be able to find another.

11:18KT: But you think of Tomodachi Game you think of, uh, Alice in Borderland And I guess for the mainstream babies, you got Squid Game as well. Like the intrigue of the puzzles. I thought that was pretty cool as well in the show, especially the first episode. With the grid, with the crosses and like data.

11:42Oti: Right, it's, it's the quirkism of, of John figuring out how to solve puzzles and how he sees the world. And that's the interesting bit, right? Because when you're juxtaposing it from a Sherlock who's meticulous in his observations and being like dee dee dee and puzzling everything in his mind and then just spitting out, this is what, this is what happened. You get John who's painting out a picture coming up with the very possibilities and coming out all permutations and that's That's a weird way. That's a cool way

12:19KT: cool way of thinking weird You're weird.

12:23Oti: that's a cool way of doing it that

12:26KT: David Mitchell, I inherit the beef.

12:30Oti: That's a cool way of doing it that separates you from The Sherlock ness of it all.

12:38KT: Yeah? Did you have a favorite, uh, puzzle? Well, I guess you could say episode cause they follow their own themes, but did you have a favorite sort of puzzle, mystery, or like being able to deduce the crime also, if our man's that never leaves the house comes and has the best clearance rate for solving crimes, like ACAB or date, obviously, but like, what are

13:07Oti: He's different. He sees things differently. My favorite one I think would still have to be maybe the first one just because in him setting up the scene and setting up who is going to be in this world it was intriguing for everyone to see how oh what the fuck is this guy doing before it becoming a thing within the you know within the police force or whatever so definitely the first one you

13:38KT: You I like the one where they had the I always feel like I have to say spoilers. But the one where they hid the body inside of the estate.

13:50Oti: Oh,

13:51KT: it in that sense, it felt very Cluedo. It felt very Agatha Christie, because you had like a cast and spoilers. I guess also if you, Ooh, have we even reviewed Murder on Orient Express? I don't think we have,

14:07Oti: No,

14:08KT: spoiler, if you don't, if you haven't read the book or seen the films, it kind of was. A Murder on the Orient Express. In that they all had a hand in the murder.

14:21Oti: Yeah.

14:23KT: But is it really a murder if the one that was murdered conned their lives? Oh.

14:32Oti: But I

14:34KT: I thought because it was the brother. It's like a nightmare. It's

14:36Oti: the

14:37KT: what she said. Because it's the brother. Because you're impersonating the brother. It doesn't count as being illegal.

14:56Oti: In as much as I enjoyed that episode, it sort of took me out a bit because of the Agatha Christie ness of it where I While a lot of the cases seemed like it could be out of an Agatha Christie book This one felt like completely out of it. I was like can do without this Not not nothing not that I don't like Agatha Christie work. It just felt a bit too semi semi

15:23KT: I feel that way about an episode, not that one. It was the construction one. I didn't really care for.

15:30Oti: Oh, the one where they had to figure out why, how the body, oh, okay. Really?

15:39KT: I think, well, if we talk about like from a puzzle, Tom Hanks, Da Vinci Code point of view. I think that was cool. Like how. It's kind of like a murder by an, like a frozen icicle or whatever. Like there's nothing indicating a straightforward cause and a person that did it. Right. Cause it all had knock on effects. It was kind of like a chessboard. Right. I think that was cool. But the whole, uh, I guess scaffolding, if you'll pardon the pun. To get there, the storyline, it wasn't very

16:20Oti: I think I enjoyed that because of just the different interactions between the cast I felt that that was done way better than what we got with the estate one.

16:30KT: the estate one? It kind of felt like a soap opera. Because Broad Optics, that construction episode, was the, like, the guy that jokes around that has a little laugh. He made people think that they won the lottery. So he proposed to his girlfriend. But the girlfriend wasn't him. It was that guy catfishing as him. Really?

16:54Oti: That's some

16:55KT: Exactly. That's some tabloid National Enquirer type

16:59Oti: don't, don't go catfishing your work, work colleagues. That's the lesson. Yeah,

17:07KT: Yeah, but I guess it wasn't as interesting, What did you feel about the through line? Well, before we even get into the discussion, let's do a quick, uh, temperature check and then we can go from there. What do you think about James? Do you think he's in duress? Do you think he just up and left his family because he had enough? Like, was, was James Papa a rolling stone or what?

17:34Oti: No, because we get to see James at the end of the show, once he's given John the clue And him.

17:42KT: see as in the voice message or

17:44Oti: No, he, the end of the show, the end of the last episode is pretty much a shot of James standing behind the fence, looking at James and the family, getting out of the truck and all that, finding all the evidence that he, they need to pursue. So He's definitely in duress and he fled to keep the family safe and he I guess Didn't anticipate John coming in to Help

18:19KT: sense because that was part of the If, if you, if I were to follow your line of thinking, that was a forged message. So why would you lean on a forged message to be part of the motivation? Because I, I, I, doesn't that mean you're regarding that voice message as not him?

18:37Oti: No, it was him. It was just encrypted. It was just encrypted with, Oh, and John was like, Oh, actually my brother say that. And that's all that was a dead giveaway to him. It was like, oh, how stupid was I? I could have figured this out sooner because my brother would never do that. And that's what I was like Exactly. This is the bad book that I needed to decrypt everything And that was the clue he needed

19:05Oti: It felt a bit fall on your lap sort of effect rather than how everything was set up but

19:11KT: mean the insta wife and husband? I mean son

19:17Oti: but who can blame John

19:20KT: but this also doesn't make sense as well because people don't know that that's John and not James. So isn't his presence in their life still a danger? You get me? Manz looks exactly the same and I'm sorry to say they kept talking about James like he's Jon Hamm with a leather

19:44Oti: doesn't have glasses fam. It's the glasses effect man.

19:49KT: He have a fucking square that chooses everything.

19:56Oti: have a pocket square that changes So you know how in, in, in like I don't know if they still do this but how in those, uh, rom coms you get a gal removing the glasses and like, oh, I was pretty all along. Him is taking the pocket square and be

20:17KT: I was David Mitchell all along.

20:19Oti: was Jon Hamm all along.

20:24KT: One thing I will say, because, you know, at the end of the day, it's not that deep. Yeah. But it's still perturbed me. So I guess it's still worth mentioning. I know this show wasn't at this level of layers. But the way that they had, because as far as we know, it's not based on a true story So the way that they had decided to create this scenario was to have a plug and play husband proxy, right? And he was also a twin.

21:04Oti: Hmm

21:07KT: I need, I need to say it. I feel like the wife treated him like he was a baby or sorry, his best friend. Like she talked to him like he wasn't a whole grown man. Do you see what I'm saying? It wasn't like you're someone that I've known for years and I care for you. It's like, I feel like you're not capable of living a fully realized life.

21:31KT: So I need to coddle you in cotton wool. That's how I felt. And it felt very, um, I wouldn't say the word is condescending. Cause I know that we're trying to hint at like. She cares so much about him, but it's like, no, you pity him. And that makes me feel gross.

21:48Oti: You reckon because I felt like they were trying to hint at Lucy actually sort of does love John,

21:54KT: then why did you have a whole family with mans? That doesn't make sense.

21:58Oti: they look alike. He could she could just pretend for a second

22:02KT: why don't you just go for it? again Again, they're part same set of the limited edition. I don't think they're that different. So because you can't get Morris Chestnut you get Charlamagne

22:26Oti: I don't think that's the comparison, but okay. No,

22:32KT: I'm just saying, like, it wasn't that deep to the overall, motivations of the show, but it was a bit to me, like you could have spent maybe, you know, a couple of more sessions workshopping how you wanted this to work. Cause I think she infantilized

22:50Oti: Uh, to me, to the point of her having actual emotions to my point I hear you. I'm trying to answer you, to her point or my point of having actual emotions or feelings for John, there's a point where John is reading out or she doesn't, she doesn't see that John's reading out a letter or trying to solve a fucking puzzle or whatever.

23:17Oti: And John says, I love you. And there's this look in her face and there's this pause Where she's like, oh my fucking god, is this actually happening? It felt like It wasn't fully uncomfortable of what the fuck is this guy saying? It was more. Oh, maybe there's actually something in me that I actually love this guy as well and it's actually coming out Until John was like, oh, this is what the message actually says That's how I felt anyway, so but I do get the infantilization bit Whether a moment where she actually sort of just spoke down to him, I guess

23:55KT: go, what kind of a love is that? It's pity darling.

24:01Oti: you watched Billions

24:05KT: That's different. That's

24:07Oti: it's a fetish I

24:08KT: That's getting into kink territory. That's not what we were seeing in this show. I'm sure you're very proud of yourself, but I'm genuinely talking. Think the son was cool. He seems a bit shady. He's given squarely on a budget, but, but knows what his web browser history is like, he seems smart enough to be able to erase it completely, encrypt it, uh, crystallize it and all of that sort of shit. So,

24:35Oti: But was, you know, a breath of fresh air. To see a kid within that sort of dynamic actually be helpful. Most of the time it's usually, they're annoying, they'll

24:46KT: You're thinking about AJ from Breaking Bad. And you've never moved on. I know.

24:53Oti: Kim Kim is an OG man, I don't have, I don't have any qualms with Kim.

25:01KT: Hey, you were huffing at her, not the vaguely Middle Eastern names. Bro, your show, man. That was, they talk about copaganda. Wait, is, uh, Bauer a cop?

25:16Oti: city, he's a counter-terrorist agent. Bro,

25:18KT: the

25:21Oti: because that shirt? Hehehe. Yikes. Major Uh, yeah, because I, I, I was rewatching 24 and in the background, they'll say some weird shit and

25:35KT: even the background foreground. It was, it was the whole, it was the core episodes.

25:41Oti: they give you the vibe of, the DJ Khaled Busta Rhymes, Arab song, Arab money.

25:53KT: You know, you're laughing like the villains in 24. Oh but I, yeah, I don't know. Is it okay to want for more? Even though the story doesn't need it. Is that okay?

26:10Oti: Yeah. Well,

26:11KT: there go. I'm a gal of quality. What can I say?

26:16Oti: hmm.

26:17KT: Speaking of non gals of quality,

26:20Oti: Jeez.

26:22KT: I want to talk about the misfits. The lovable misfits along the way.

26:28Oti: Mmm

26:34KT: Fuck you, as a record label, and as a motherfucking establishment. Ugh, I'm pretty sure there's a name for a trope for this type of woman character. That's just, like, it's like, it's like she was written by Snarky Sorkin.

26:51Oti: Oh, She

26:53KT: no value, she only wanted to tear people down. Why, why did you get off the wagon?

27:02Oti: No, I'm with you. I'm with you. She, she definitely gave a vibe and everything she did was not helpful to the overall plot. It was always just condescending shit. I'm like, why are you here for that? It gave me vibes of, you know, how are you watching? The Franchise. It gave me vibes of that, you know, the lady, the, the assistant to the director. No, that's a different Sort of, similar ish.

27:35KT: No, I would say DS Alice Finch was just mean. I don't know if I would go as far as to say she was miserable as a person, but she just, no, but she, like anyone that wanted to try, she would put them down. And I hate those You must be a terrible person. The never be Dennis, the lady in The Franchise. She was just really oblivious and a dumb fuck, really.

28:03Oti: But I got, I got senses, I got like some sort of parallels between the two.

28:07KT: Which is cool. I think it's just because they're women, but

28:10Oti: Hmm. That's my nuance.

28:17KT: I like DC Simon Evans. I thought he was very cute.

28:20Oti: Yeah, very eager, eager to please, eager to do well, I guess. And, and of enthusiasm being always squashed by Alice was meh. Come on now, let's, let's be better in this D&

28:38KT: just, you know,

28:41Oti: Yeah. Oh, they made him sass up until they dropped the bomb that his, his fiancee died and his fiancee was

28:59KT: Ziegler's daughter.

29:00Oti: I'm like, bruh.

29:02KT: like they really convoluted it to like misdirect us.

29:06Oti: Yeah, it was like, geez, that's such a heavy, like, that was the last thing I'd ever expect for, that was the storyline

29:13KT: Like, yeah,

29:14Oti: come on

29:15KT: like if you're not going to go there, don't, don't even try. I would say, you know, we should do, Oti, if we ever remember when we do our reviews, we should give an, uh, anime character award because DI Russell Carter was an anime character. He was painted as this big bad villain And then I guess we decided we like him now. So we just we're all just flirting like frolicking along in the outro sequence now

29:45Oti: I think the first half of the show you're like I don't like this guy. It's fishy as fuck. Why does he

29:51KT: he was

29:52Oti: No, why does he want to get David Mitchell? Like why does he want to get John, right?

29:58KT: No, he was definitely a plant, but I wasn't, like, wary of him.

30:03Oti: No, I was wary of him because they set him up as the guy to be suspicious of Up until they told us. Oh, you only saw Ziegler on his phone because Ziegler

30:16KT: I'm not sure that's how he addressed it. Making it sound like one of those parties, Oti, under investigation,

30:24Oti: but it just felt like he was given such a heavy story. Yeah. For such a show. Yeah. Where no one else had such a heavy story going on for them. Yeah. Yes. Sure. James is missing, but fam, we know James is alive. Sure. People are dying. Left around and center cases are being solved. But that's sort of. meshed into the tapestry of what the show is. To give DCI some fucking, to give DCI Russell some fucking heavy shit. Oh, actually my wife's dead and my grand, my, my stepdaddy just wants to reach out and talk.

31:03KT: It was too

31:04Oti: much. It was too much for this type of show and the levels they actually wanted to go deep in it. It felt too much.

31:10KT: And you know what's uh, it's so interesting. Because at the end of the day Like, watch what you want to watch, enjoy what you want to enjoy, and we thoroughly enjoyed this series. But when we sit here and actually analyze it, the writing is frustrating. Because let's come to James now. He just became a plot device.

31:34KT: We knew nothing about him, and that's why it would have been cool to know more about Henry. we're kind of just, Like he's just being absorbed, like James's character is just being absorbed and you can reflect whatever you want We don't know how, cause that was the interesting thing, like just to give us like a baseline of how James interacted because we went straight into John impersonating him, right? So I don't even know if what John was doing was comically hilarious because it was the complete opposite of who James was. Right? Or if he was spot on or if anyone clocked it. and it would have been nice to know what the dynamic was like for James as a father, because they kept focusing on the fact that John didn't, couldn't, wouldn't, or hasn't had yet the ability to pour out love in general, but also to a child, to a son, right? Well, we don't even know if James was a good father either.

32:37Oti: Hmm. Well, from the, from the ink, the extrapolation is the James is a good father because of,

32:45KT: as you say extrapolation, it's not a lived in quote unquote experience. It's the same thing when we talk about like, relationship films and it starts at them breaking up. You know what I mean? Like, we need to know what the good times were like. We need to get a baseline of, What that relationship was and he's becoming, uh, I'm doing it again. Friends and lovers. I'm making another anime reference. Monster. It's kind of Tenma like he's whatever you want him to be.

33:15Oti: What I took it as was, John was Steve Urkel, and James was Stefan Urquelle.

33:22KT: And,

33:23Oti: And, and that's where you get that

33:27KT: we're doing a very urban review for,

33:30Oti: of And That's how it's being presented as, you know We get James, the sort of social, awkwardness. And James is supposed to be this sort of, ooh, I'm the man's man, sort of. And he navigates the world so much better, even when they're sort of showing us, showing us, their childhood. We get to see James's, James wasn't bullied. He didn't go through all of that, but John went through everything else.

34:04KT: Yeah, but he looks exactly like him. So, how did he not get bullied? He didn't get No, because Jaleel White looks like Jaleel White. Like, you can dork him up, but he's still Jaleel White at the end of the day.

34:24Oti: Jaleel White as when he was a kid.

34:36KT: But we're talking about, you're saying before and after, I'm saying this before and before.

34:46Oti: Nah, I hear you though. I do. I think they did still do work in trying to get us to see some sort of semblance of what who James was as a person and how you know from the relationship between Henry and Lucy how all that sort of

35:05KT: I didn't like Lucy. I've said it already. I just wanted to say it

35:09Oti: Um, I hear you. Uh, I, I still feel like Lucy,

35:14KT: like she treated him like she was the carer of him.

35:19Oti: Are you going to afford her any sort of sympathy in terms of what she was going through at the time?

35:25KT: I'm talking about Mary J. Blige, Real Love. I'm searching for a real love. And you just said sympathy.

35:33Oti: Empathy

35:35KT: I'm saying? I'm talking about real love, man.

35:38Oti: know

35:39KT: Because they, they, Like you said about these DI Russell, they didn't. They didn't excavate the foundation to be able to explore that.

35:51Oti: Right,

35:52KT: Right. That's all I'm saying.

35:57Oti: fair

35:57KT: Also another episode, the church one, the tours. I think that was cool. When you talk about like the solving of the mystery, that was really cool. But the actual storyline of someone committing a crime the security got mad and then maybe they took a picture What kind of camera was that to be able to see those little

36:17Oti: felt like a reach. Right? That felt like a

36:20KT: what I'm saying the story the writing how

36:22Oti: how, if, if I think for whatever second that, I'm standing there and you could see me Strangling someone and you could see me. You could see my face clearly Through a window that had some fucking tint on it I don't know like I was like fam. How is this possible? And she was using her phone I didn't get it. I didn't his motivation to go and kill that lady

36:49KT: This is, this is probably the closest you'll ever get me to Starbucks, Game of Thrones coffee. A TV show, but even the way she was holding the phone, it wasn't at an angle. Yeah, thank you. It wasn't

37:02Oti: tilted up there to capture that.

37:05KT: Thank you. Maybe the Ludwigs are the ones you meet along the way. Ti

37:11Oti: Maybe it is, maybe it is. All in all, we love a good Dave Mitchell, show. His quirkisms, his, his, his humour shines through. And I enjoyed it. I love Unlike You. I love Anna Maxwell Martin. I feel like she's always great at everything that she does.

37:32KT: I'm just talking about her performance here,

37:36Oti: I just brought her up because I actually like everything she does as well. And I could give her grace that she's struggling with James missing. So maybe she was a bit short with John. Come on, John. Just do it. You know, I know. But someone who could give Skyler some grace could actually try and get some grace and and afford it to Lucy What's

38:05KT: do something. What, twice

38:09Oti: twice and she was a villain twice over Yeah, I'm proud of myself. But overall, like even the getting the constable Ziegler because we don't really get to see much about him. We still don't know whether or not he's sort of involved in the,

38:29KT: No.

38:30Oti: In the crime or his dodgy. We, we all, all we know is he's the grandpappy of. Of DI Russell. Other than that, we don't know anything else. Not grandpappy,

38:47KT: did.

38:50Oti: It did. It did. I love my fellow ethnicals, I said it.

38:59KT: Woo hoo hoo. Thank you, friends and lovers, for joining us another week in the For Your Reference household. this was a show.

39:14Oti: I'm adding good one.

39:16KT: you know what? I had a great time watching it, but reviewing it? You start to

39:22Oti: it's a show you don't need to like overthink or, or, or pull the strings too much. You just watch it and let it be what it is.

39:32KT: It is?

39:34Oti: He's Rudy.

39:36KT: going to finish up in a segment we call For Your Reference. Oti.

39:44Oti: Benedict Cumberbatch, Sherlock. One of the best shows ever to me. And despite a dodgy last episode, it's something that he actually really love how everything's been laid out in the just puzzle solving of it is a different level.

40:06KT: I want to see a Squid Game with David Mitchell.

40:30Oti: I feel like he'd make, he'd get himself killed the first one. Really?

40:41KT: I just want to see it happen, is that okay?

40:43Oti: Yeah, I, I, like, if you're putting Lee Mack in there as well, Lee Mack would

40:48KT: Lee Mack dies straight away.

40:49Oti: Lee Mack does not die straight away. Yes. He will finagle everything to make sure that he's the last one.

40:55KT: He'll get a tongue cut because he'll be licking the butterscotch too much. He's like the Augustus Gloop of, of Squid Game. Well, there we are friends and lovers. If you would like to hit us up specifically in regards to Ludwig or just in general, if you want to have a yarn on Twitter, Instagram and other places, this is my @ForYourRefPod.

41:27Oti: us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. Thank you.

41:31KT: We're also on David Mitchell fan club podcast, if you'd like to leave a rating and review and we'll see you guys next week.

41:38Oti: you guys