Juice – All Eyez on Me

Full transcript of Juice – All Eyez on Me.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference Household, and psst, I see dead references. Amazing, brother. Do you only pop out on occasion, brother? Friends and lovers that have been joining us, this is not a surprise. Even after Oti told me to stop referencing it, he brought the raid 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, plus 5. Friends and lovers. We are very excited. We have a new format and we cannot wait to kick it off with my number one friend and lover, welcome to KT and Friends. Let's get on with the show.

0:49KT: In other words. I've already know how this episode is going to be.

1:00Oti: Well,

1:06KT: I guess to make it very clear, friends and lovers, I know I am the US reference in Not Like Us. And I did have 180 listens in May and I still managed not to say the N word. It's possible. Welcome, welcome friends and lovers to a new edition of the For Your Reference podcast. You got your hosts, KT

1:31Oti: and Oti.

1:34KT: Welcome to KT and Friends, where we review films of reference in the Kendrick Lamar and Drake beef. We, we are kicking off KT and Friends with KT's number one friend and lover Oti to review the 1992 film Juice.

1:58Oti: Ooh, I feel, I feel special.

2:00KT: Hail Mary. You feeling that Killuminati all up in your body?

2:05Oti: Mm hmm.

2:07KT: Well, I would hope that you would know that you're the one and always my love

2:11Oti: I do, I do

2:12KT: and I guess you know, since people worry about mom and dad, Oti might disappear, but he will come back.

2:19Oti: Yeah.

2:20KT: so this is a, this is a great sort of format. It's an opportunity to, you know, talk about something that is relevant. At the moment in regards to the rap beef, I guess you could say it's over now, but Drake is still being a sore little sad loser about it.

2:35Oti: And,

2:36KT: and the 95 that don't get it is still clinging onto the 69. God, um, it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. And we're here to talk about it. but we do have, you know, and because we're, because we're of a certain big back, big age friends and lovers, uh, we've got it in two segments. So we've got the A side and we've got the B side, the A side will be The Pop Out, which is just.

3:04KT: General chat about the rap beef, about hip hop, about what it means to us. I guess while we're here, friends and lovers, we did do open source hip hop, the black and Brown dialogue. So feel free to go and check that out because apparently there are people in the world that aren't black American that think they created hip hop.

3:22KT: Very embarrassing. Not my people, maybe my people. and then we have B side, which will be a film review. I am disappointed in the internet for all of the, everyone apparently just realized they went into ovulation and they realize how attractive and sexy Kendrick Lamar is. I don't know what took people so long, but also.

3:45KT: There was no list on the internet of films that were referenced throughout the beef. And you know, if I can quote Drake, I only listened to him tangentially. But if I can quote Drake in Fuckin' Problems, you should print the lyrics out and have a fucking read along. It ain't a fucking sing along unless you brought the weed along and just

4:07Oti: tangentially. And yet you're quoting.

4:13KT: Yeah. Hope it's the finale. Oh, okay. All right. All right. All right. so there will be time marks, friends and lovers. we are excited to get into the full review format. Like it's been a while since we've done that as well. All those that are here for the Sydney Film Festival review stuff, we will get to it eventually. but Jupiter's cock and get satiated. Friends and lovers. Okay.

4:53KT: Well, I guess let's start off with A side, The Pop Out. We can go wherever we want to go. We've kind of been eating around the clit of this beef. Ooh, that's tasty. A beefy clit. We are back friends and lovers Welcome friends and lovers if you're new to the For Your Reference podcast, this is what we do around here. We've never really had a format to be able to talk about our love for music it's, it's an interesting world because we listen to music as much as we love and adore TV and film.

5:21KT: Obviously we will reference it here and there. How do you feel that we've covered, not just Nas, but Busta Rhymes before we've covered Tupac? How do you feel about that Oti?

5:31Oti: What have we covered that had Busta Rhymes in it?

5:34KT: We did a whole Halloween franchise.

5:36Oti: Oh, damn. He was in there.

5:37KT: LL Cool J as well.

5:39Oti: Jeez.

5:41KT: Tyra Banks if we're counting Method Man. you know, is, is, has, he's had a lot of roles now, so I don't know if you would just say he's a rapper that happened to do some acting roles, but, I would love to, I guess, just lay the groundwork as we love a firm foundation in just hearing I guess your love for hip hop, where you were, I guess you can also reference Tupac if you cared or were aware of the other beefs that were going on, and then where we are today, my love.

6:13Oti: Uh, yeah, but to me, Tupac fan growing up, really didn't vibe with Biggie that well, that much.

6:23KT: Just because of association. Uh,

6:27Oti: by the time, like those, Nas and Jay Z, again, I was a super Nas fan, so it feels like I've always been picking the winning side back to back to back.

6:41KT: Oh, wow. I didn't know that's where we were going.

6:45Oti: But yeah, huge fan. So when this happened, I was here. I was happy. And even when people were going, Oh, what can Drake do after Euphoria? I was saying the same thing. I didn't really expect much.

7:03KT: I feel like you're disgusted and embarrassed at the way that you conducted yourself, sir. No, but it's,

7:09Oti: I was after Drake dropped Family Matters. I was pumped. I was hyped. I was like, shit. I've not witnessed anything like this in my whole life. It was. He came up with something that I thought was it not for Kendrick? It would have crashed anyone else.

7:30KT: See, but even that sort of like, I don't even care for that sort of talk if I'm being perfectly honest.

7:35Oti: What do you not care for?

7:36KT: so I need to make it very clear, especially friends and lovers that stay and exist in our podcast feed. I wouldn't necessarily call myself like a knowledgeable, like people used to call us, like, Film like people that understood film stuff. And I never really got that until this beef started happening.

7:55KT: And I'm like, Oh, I know nothing about music. Like, no, I know nothing about music. I know nothing about hip hop. All I really did throughout the years was listen to Kendrick Lamar albums in full. And I was deep in Section.80. I have like a Facebook profile with my three fingers up for HiiiPoWeR. The wind is falling.

8:17KT: The sky is falling. It's time for someone to die in the morning, HiiiPoWeR, Section.80. So I was like deep in it. Right. but I never really, I don't know. Like, I don't know if it's like the existential dread of life or if I'm busy or if there's a pressure to like things, but I did get apprehensive about listening to new music.

8:38KT: You know what I mean? And like trying to find new artists and that sort of thing. So, I was eating well, like, even just only listening to Kendrick Lamar, I was eating quite well throughout this beef. but also, and this is absolutely the diss that it, it is going to sound like. I fell off with Drake around that time, like, what was it, like 2012s, 2013s. And I guess I didn't need to know anything else he's been doing because he's kind of just been, albeit different costumes, kind of frozen in time.

9:14Oti: Wow. I've not been a Drake lover per se, but his stuff seeps

9:20KT: Drake Loverboy

9:22Oti: because he's that popular.

9:25KT: Naturally, of course.

9:27Oti: yeah. And I found myself vibing to God's Plan and, you know, being aware of Toosie Fucking Slide because it's A lot of people, you know, grew up with fucking Drake. If you ask my nephews, it will be Drake all along.

9:43KT: Yeah. I think it would be a farce to say you've never heard a Drake song throughout the years. And that's not what I'm saying, but it's also a farce. If you say Not Like Us, isn't a banger, then I don't trust you. You're going out of your way to extend how much you are nonchalant and how unbothered you are. So I absolutely get what you're saying. Yeah.

10:06Oti: And this brings me to my point after Family Matters, I was so pumped. I was hyped. I was screaming, uh, saying hip hop is a sport. Ah, screw face. yes. Screaming hip hop is a sport because I was, I did not expect that level of delivery, rapping from Drake. He rapped, rapped on that.

10:30KT: Yeah.

10:30Oti: And, you know, even, even things like having the line, like singing, like, if you're trying to free the slaves

10:36KT: in that moment, you're the one to bring that

10:39Oti: laughing,

10:40KT: you're bringing that up in a celebratory way.

10:45Oti: I took it from, I got it from the intention. Not from the Marley side where, Oh, well, Kendrick addressed it. And that's what I'm saying. Anyone else gets floored by Family Matters.

10:56KT: Okay. Okay. So you just wanted to get deep into it. I guess, friends and lovers, if you haven't caught up with the rap beef, there are really great breakdowns.

11:05KT: We'll even suggest some. Some, as well hit us up on the socials, but I just want to quickly go through the tracks, not to like give a reaction on all of them, but just to set a tone because there is something I'm on, I'm sharp shooting. I'm first person shootering to you, sir, in a second. So we have like that J. Cole, 7 Minute Drill, and I don't know.

11:24KT: We don't really have a lot of time, so, uh, we don't really get to talk a lot about J. Cole, but I was calling him a big fat pussy o, and I did apologize through a tweet, and I'm also apologizing through the podcast. Jermaine Cole, I love you, and I hope you find the same peace that ScHoolboy Q graced to you as well.

11:44KT: Okay. Drake, Push Ups, Drake, Taylor Made Freestyle, which again is a reference to Pac, Euphoria, Kendrick Lamar, 6:16 in LA, Kendrick Lamar, Family Matters, Drake, Meet the Grahams, which in some camps say from 30 to 52 minutes, apart uploading, we have Not Like Us, and then The Heart, Part 6, that's some good exercise, man.

12:11KT: You can drop a hundred more tracks, man, shut the fuck up. Shut your bitch ass up. Shut the fuck up. You know what? You know what? So I wanna come to what you were saying. This is so interesting because I think what you were also, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like you started to get hype off of, like you say, hip hop is a sport, right?

12:37KT: You were getting hyped off of the. I guess the sort of theatrics and the production that was going on around this beef, because I made it very clear when Euphoria came out, you're dead, my guy, right? And he only became double, triple deaded as things continued. So for me, if Okay, if we're talking about this is the level of lyricism, this is the level of even clowny, foolery, trollie, like even all of that, you know, hateration in this dancery, like if we wanna talk about that, then on every single angle, on every single 4K Super Bowl camera, referee angle, he lost.

13:27KT: Like, I just don't get it if I'm being a hundred percent honest, right? As soon as Euphoria hit, there was no reason for him to say nada, for him to say zero. And I'm doing that in his Spanish accent, okay? So the reason why I say that. Is I was already done with mandem with the crodie fam. I was already done with him. And then he came out with Family Matters and this is part of the problem. And I don't know how deep you want to get into this.

14:03KT: This might even just be a full episode about A side, The Pop Out, and we might need to do a B side of Juice film review after, but I need to have this time. You'll don't be BET and don't treat me as Asha. And don't you dare censor me, sir. I'm doing the editing. So, okay. I'm going to, I guess, give a bit of context to exemplify my point about my exhaustion at Drake, specifically when it came to Family Matters, Drake continues to use aesthetics that are beneficial to him. Right.

14:47Oti: Uh huh.

14:48KT: As a light skinned brown person, it's not me to say or evaluate.

14:53Oti: For a second I thought you were referring to Drake.

14:58KT: I was like fam. Well. Well, without the BBL, I hope my ass is competing, well above Drake, but, uh,

15:11KT: I'm not Rick Ross. So I'm not going to play into this calling him white boy and that sort of shit. It's funny, but it's not for me to play into yet. But. You know, even before, if you were to like watch video commentaries or, you know, black YouTubers or streamers react, they would actually talk about this, maybe not necessarily the word of colonizer, but him picking and plucking aesthetics, right?

15:36KT: I love Bad Bunny. I might listen to me. Uh, please don't crucify me. Right. So. In that in and of itself, he was never really about it again. I don't know how Drake is. Apparently people really love him trolling on social media. I didn't really tap into the Meek Mill beef. I also didn't really tap into the Pusha T.

15:59KT: Beef either. So I didn't, I don't really know how he moves fam and he might move in very hilarious ways, but I just didn't really know it, but it all felt really corny to me. And every time he would have some sort of dance hall beat, he would have some UK drill. He would have something. Right. And that's one of the interesting things because, you know, even when Central Cee hops on a song and he's in a music video in Nigeria, he still sounds like Central Cee.

16:26KT: Yeah. Yeah. Kendrick Lamar did a song with Taylor Swift and he still sound like Kendrick Lamar.

16:34Oti: Yeah, I hear you.

16:36KT: But he didn't have an identifier, right? If you've watched the clip of Drake whining and getting really passive aggressive to his mom because he didn't get hurt him like a tuna bagel or some shit, bruh, exactly.

16:51KT: And it's what Denzel says. It's not just about color. It's about culture. Right. Culturally, where did you grow up? Even though I saw a funny tweet saying Filipinos in LA is still saying the N word in The Pop Out. But you know what I mean? Like there's a difference between that. And the reason why I say that, like to add on to what you said about Family Matters, I was already sick of his antics and also keep in mind, this was after the Tupac AI, which.

17:19KT: If we don't get to it now, we'll talk about in Juice or we'll just talk about in general, but my point is, even as like a non like avid hip hop fan, that was gross to me. And even as a brown person, why are you using someone's voice from the dead? It's gross. Unless it's that Dave Chappelle skit. I'm in the club,

17:40KT: I see you over there. Like, unless you're doing that, I, cause that's not even that right. And then there's obviously Oti got to a point where he would ask me if I got my information from, uh, Ebony Prince. Or if I got it through the dark, Kenny subreddit, and then it got to a point where he just stopped listening to you and

17:59Oti: down the rabbit hole. I was like, leave me out of this.

18:02KT: The rabbit hole goes further. I promise. But there is talks of Drake potentially utilizing the AI feature. To see how that would work with artistry and music in the future, right? I don't think that's too far from the truth. See, you thought I was going to say something you had to duck from.

18:23KT: But anyway, going back to Family Matters, I personally, I was just put off by it all because yes, you could say that there was some day free, like there was some lines that people were like, Oh shit. Oh my God. He snapped, my 6 God. Oh my God. Like you, I guess some people could say that, or even just like casual peeps that aren't like, you know, humping all over Drake.

18:50KT: Right. But even then, do we believe where the lines are coming from? And that's why I would bring it back to like our film reviews as well. Like something can be great, but if I look behind the pen and the lens, and it doesn't look reflective of the experience that they are being expressed, you're moving funny.

19:10KT: And I don't like that. And even when it came to that, I think the Money Trees line might have been before. The slave line, but I was like, I even turned to you, but you were like bouncing. You're about to kick the TV. Like you were so excited, but I turned and I was like that Money Trees thing. Isn't even true.

19:28KT: We just watched that Vice mini documentary when he's hanging around with all the bloods, like. And donating money to the school, which the journalist got out that Kendrick didn't like, he doesn't really make it known when he proverbially plants those money trees. Right. And then even that's like, I was like, that's such a stupid, and I said it to you.

19:49KT: I was like, that's such a stupid thing to say. And I was feeling very Lisa Simpson. There, there you go. J. Cole. I'm referencing your Simpsons line from the one that you deleted. but I felt very like, I felt like the buzzkill. I felt like Britta from Community because I had to be the one you're like, no, man, this is the best. Hip hop is a life. I feel alive.

20:12Oti: And this is where I'd have to pull you back because. Drake did not need to come up with facts or make a documentary out of this shit. What he says, it's a play on who Kendrick is as a character and as a person.

20:29KT: But that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, I don't care how good the lines are, I don't believe that you're about that. That's what I'm saying. And why are you talking about him? Not planning money trees. He did God's Plan in somewhere in America. And there were people in Canada being like, bruv, why didn't you come and do that here? Right. And I guess that was just his home for that.

20:52Oti: No. I get it. I get it, but I wasn't going to come at him for saying any of that in Family Matters.

21:06KT: No, but I just want to make it clear because people might like, however people might've felt, I'm just making very clear in the moment we were listening and watching that men's did a whole production on a video. How sad we were watching it in real time when it came out, when the rest of the world was watching it, I was telling you how disgusting this was.

21:29Oti: You are and I was because we had to separate ourselves so we can listen to it properly By the time we were done Kendrick had dropped Yeah. And, here's the thing, right? Family Matters. It was meant to be the last.

21:46KT: But you're not even that big of a Drake fan, so why are you holding this banner?

21:49Oti: Because it would be folly for me to sit here and just be like, Oh, he didn't do anything. Okay, Otidemics. He did, he did, he did, Family Matters was, was, was something that I thought, okay, now, now we're definitely feeling something different in hip hop because I'd never witnessed anything like that. it took months for Nas to come up with, with Ether, like, brah. So this back to back, this back to forth sort of response, new shit.

22:24Oti: So I was there being happy. And then to be met with Meet the Grahams, it just brought everything back down.

22:31KT: Yeah. You know, you know, a photo just randomly, or like meme just pops into my head when they have like a FaceTime with Kendrick and Adonis, and it's a really terribly Photoshopped hand holding the Zen pic. Yes. So we come to Meet the Grahams. And I wish we had the time. in the DMs, we always have the time, but I wish we had the time friends and lovers. But the orchestra in which the tracks were laid out is a beautiful thing. And I'm pretty sure from some estimates, Drake took longer to reply to Like That

23:14KT: than Kendrick did in regards to, Push Ups and Taylor Made. So that's not even an argument. Shut up, shut up, mandem. But I, I guess even if we're going back to that, this is something that I think was lost. On like a lot of, and I wouldn't, I would say our timeline was popping. So I wouldn't even say our timeline was a problem, but there was a lot of sentiment going around of, Oh, this, I can't pop my ass to this in the club.

23:47KT: Like all of that sort of shit. Right. But what I would say as a Kendrick fan and someone that like really appreciates his music and I remember when, Mr. Morale uh, came out, I'd listened to the whole album and I was like, Hey, Like I know you're busy, but you need to, you need to listen to this. You need to get some therapy and you need to get some ayahuasca. Strip that ego from the bottom, bruv.

24:15Oti: Yeah. Mr. Morale was hard for me. I, I struggled through it.

24:19KT: We cry together.

24:21Oti: Uh, it's nothing that I've gone back to listen to because that's just, I, it's too dark for me, too dark. I don't need that. I don't need that in my life. but I appreciate his artistry and, and his journey, you know, it, it was a one time listen for me and I was done. I was like, fam, I, I probably wouldn't need fucking therapy after that, but

24:45KT: yeah, just after

24:50Oti: that Ah, But You know, what this rap beef is, has brought up is we've lived through a time when we got to see two of the biggest artists go head to head and K-Dot came out on top.

25:10KT: Okay. Enough of that. Enough of that. Nice for What? Um, I like that reference. I'mma come back to that for the reference.

25:22Oti: I think this, this episode, you've made more Drake references.

25:27KT: Bro, you're the one that keeps talking about Drake. Enough. My point is, enough of that. Because also, I've been with you the whole journey. So I don't even know why you feel the need. To like keep the bots at bay, but whatever. I had a great time. How let's, let's finish off with The Pop Out thoughts, feelings. Did you get your life?

25:46Oti: Yeah. Oh, amazing stuff. It was, what we did not forward anything going through the whole concert. Just. Pure bliss.

25:56KT: So good. And it was so good to, learn about different artists, particularly DJ Hed, also, Oti, Tommy the Clown. That was during my Bebo days. I feel like there's a young audience that would not understand anything of what I just said. but yeah, I think it's so important to acknowledge if you're about it, if you're about it, if you're not pull up and find out, Oh, are you ready to get into the film review, Oti?

26:24Oti: Let's get into it.

26:26KT: Sidestep through Riverside and request your favorite song to the local DJ. Keep running with 1992's Juice this week. We are just going to get straight into it, friends and lovers. I'm just going to quickly read the cast and we're going to get into it. Omar Epps, Tupac Shakur, Khalil Kain, Jermaine Hopkins, Samuel L.

26:51KT: Jackson, Queen Latifah, Donald Faison, and what I will say, first writer director, uh, debut for Ernest R. Dickerson, who also went to school with Spike Lee that did cinematography for Do the Right Thing. I think Malcolm X might've been the last film they worked on together. Like they collaborated with. but yes, we have a lot that we need to get through friends and lovers. So give us your first impressions and there will be spoilers, spoilers, spoilers, friends, and lovers.

27:20Oti: Juice teases the potential to deeply explore serious themes, but falls short. While promising, the abrupt shifts in character development, particularly in Bishop, leaves one emotionally disconnected, though it misses some opportunities, it remains a decent watch.

27:37KT: Okay. I pretty much said the same thing, but let me read my quote. Hey. Mm. Juice is a solid film that met its brief through memorable performances. However, fleshing out the context in which motivated characters would've transcended the film. Fact, like there was a, like at some point it felt like there was a war and we were just not going to get like. Further emotion, further, et cetera, et cetera. but I think we're both really saying the same thing. Hey,

28:07Oti: Oh, a hundred percent.

28:08KT: Oh, Omar Epps was really that guy.

28:11Oti: He was, you think there's near long fun. Yeah. There's a reason.

28:18KT: Well, okay. Oh, where does, where does this stack in your, cause we don't have a lot of time, so we probably don't get time to talk about a lot, but there are a few things that I definitely want to touch on. Where does this sit in your hood classics? Not that we need to position them over the other, but I just want to have a general sort of feeling around.

28:38Oti: Uh, just slightly above Belly. Actually, slightly below Belly. What the fuck am I saying? I just barely went there and they did not even attempt to go there.

28:51KT: Cause I think for me, it's about the motivations of the character. it would be interesting to watch interviews because the characters were the characters. Bishop was very strong. Like there was even a line that I felt like hit me and you're like, nah, it wasn't enough, like I'm, I'm putting more than what was in the film.

29:09KT: But there was a sentiment where Bishop was like, we're running from the the Puerto Rican gang leader, uh, Ramirez, we're running from Ramirez. We're running from the other crews. We're running from the police. We're running from the security guy. We're running from the fucking shop owner. I'm tired of running. And I'm like, man, I get that. But I would say there wasn't necessarily a through line in the motivations of the characters in regards to the broader context.

29:39Oti: Yeah. To me, it just felt as if Bishop was tired of being a bitch.

29:45KT: Oh, okay.

29:46Oti: Simply that, rather than it being tied to anything deeper than that. And they didn't show us to an extent of anything being deeper. It was just a matter of them getting their juice. But when, and here's the thing, right, we see Bishop wanting to go and try and stick up the shop. Right. Yep. And when we realized at the end of the watching the T when the watching telly and seeing that he'd been shot, he's like, It doesn't matter. I would have been there.

30:16Oti: It's better to die. Like, fam, let us care about these characters. Build the story. Let us, let us feel the same emotions they're feeling. If they feel like there's no hope, why is there no hope?

30:29KT: and also. While we're here and we're talking about Bishop and you talked about having the juice, which probably we'll, we'll talk about next. I just want to reference, cause we're all about For Your Reference, friends and lovers. I want to reference throughout the beef. So we have, I don't know if you want to sing it. You probably don't the blacker the berry, the sweeter the juice. We get that you like to put gin in your juice. We get that you think that you Bishop in Juice, and that's Drake in Family Matters.

30:57KT: And the bonus line is Kendrick Lamar. All Eyez on Me, and I'ma send it up to Pac. Hey.

31:05Oti: Yeah. So

31:06KT: what did you think about you got the juice now? What did you think? We said spoilers, friends and lovers. Did that feel like the Michael Jackson Thriller where he like turns around and you have your little moment at the end?

31:20Oti: You know what it felt like? It reminded me of Daniels and McNulty's interaction in The Wire where Daniels comes out of the elevator and is like, To be continued, like, fam,

31:32KT: I think I understood the intention behind it, that it was that this is like systemic shit and there always has to be a top dog. And the way to get that is a dog eat dog world.

31:48KT: Now live in your purpose, 6:16 in LA. You're welcome. but. So it's more that it's like, this is the way that it's going to be, whether it's like federal systemic or whether it's cultural systemic, they always need to be a top dog and it's only by taking them down that you become the other. Right. So like, I wish that that was fleshed out a little bit more instead of having that little line at the end.

32:18KT: I'm not necessarily for fantasy and sci fi sort of, uh, Themes, but even if they made it like that, like, even if like, because Candyman kind of becomes a vestige of, the proverbial, like it becomes a commentary in and of itself, the gentrifying of the profiting of the neglection of Right. And, you know, even on a lesser extent, even if there were just like, you know, Juice Man, I feel like that's a way in. I feel like

32:52Oti: I

32:56KT: feel like the Wayans family vault of scripts probably has Juice Man.

33:00Oti: Yeah, but

33:02KT: I decided to make a Little Man instead. Shout out to Marlon Wayans. We love, we love, we love. but I thought it was pretty interesting, but I guess while we, only have a few sort of themes to talk about, what did you think of wild characters, like characters just, just go all the way there.

33:21KT: I guess you can think of Tommy from Power, but just like, or even Marlo from The Wire, just like motherfuckers that just didn't care, whatever your rule is, whatever you as an audience expect it, they're just going to do whatever the fuck they want,

33:35Oti: right? Like even, you know, you'd get people like, even with Nino, mine was a fucking killer, but I still felt. He felt something, even taking out his friends. Bishop is one of the wildest characters ever,

33:54KT: but how did he even get there? Mathematically,

33:56Oti: he doesn't feel any, there's no weight to it. He's just wild.

34:01KT: Yeah.

34:01Oti: Tommy in Power is wild, but there's something grounded to, there's something attached to it. There's limits that even he can push himself past. Even he would have an effect on his psyche. This man wiped out everyone. He cares everyone he grew up with. Like there was nothing.

34:20KT: I'm pretty sure Steel's line was like, what the fuck do you want from me, man? And he's like, nothing. At what point?

34:30Oti: Oh, it was wild. Like, I don't think I've seen a character as wild as Bishop. Well,

34:38KT: and the, the line of Q, what the fuck are you going to do? Shoot me in an elevator.

34:44Oti: Exactly. That's what I want to do. And right. Bishop is one of the wildest characters ever on TV. Oh, absolutely. But it's the saddest thing is it's forgettable because there's no, so

35:01KT: you can divorce the Tupac that you've loved forever.

35:05Oti: Yeah.

35:06KT: Okay. Interesting. Cause I feel like there are moments where you can't separate.

35:10Oti: My young self would fucking hate my, like, watching this while I was young, I fucking loved Juice, fucking loved Above the Rim, Poetic Justice, you name it. But rewatching it now, I'm like, Bishop was fucking wild, but why? Yeah. What made him so angry? What made him so, and, and chained?

35:32KT: I could say it, but that's me filling in the gaps. So you're correct. It wasn't in the, like, it wasn't a bad film. It wasn't something that, uh, you know, I had any sort of umbrage or, or anger or a qualm with, but it was just like, okay, I guess this is the film. Like we're watching it exactly.

35:52Oti: And, and

35:53KT: that's Samuel L. Jackson character needed to stop talking to those little girls. Fam. You put a little pin on the arcade I wanna talk about self-worth. Which I guess, you know, it's, it's probably why people stay away from Mr. Morale, but there was a moment that I guess, because there were pockets of poetry, perhaps this is where we found it. Oh, wow. This is long. You know what? Last time you said that I was kind of tripping.

36:29KT: I am crazy. And you know what else? I don't give a fuck. I don't give a fuck about you. I don't give a fuck about Steel. I don't give a fuck about Raheem either. I don't give a fuck about myself, bro. When he, that was a long life battle with himself. When he said that, look, I ain't shit and you less of a man than me.

36:50KT: So as soon as I figure out you ain't going to be shit, pow. So be it. You remember that motherfucker. Cause I'm the one you need to be looking out for.

37:02Oti: Like, see, man's unhinged. He doesn't like, but there were glimmers there of like depth. There's so much going for it. Like the, the morsels there to hang on to, but just the execution itself left us so. Left it. So Byron the lock, even that speech you read, I was like, fam, shit. Like this shit is bigger than Nino Brown.

37:28Oti: But where is it? Yeah. Cause we get so much with Nino. Yeah. We get so much, even with Belly, the way, how much I hate it. And yes,

37:39KT: if anything, this is elevating Belly for you. And this is this, I am loving this. This is great.

37:47Oti: Uh, my frustrations with Belly, at least they still weren't there. We still got connections. We still got, we got, like, I hated, what was his name? Otto?

37:58KT: Yeah.

37:59Oti: Fucking hated him, but at least I still understood every aspect of every decision he was making. He was fucking deluded. But at least I believed what he was believing in with Bishop. Ah, yeah,

38:14KT: like ox from Belly, is, is a symptom of the neglect of the government and the people, right? He exists because no one is caring for the people in the community. Right. So I was trying to say that, uh, Bishop is a product of, and you're like, yeah, but that's not in the film. And I'm like, fair. I was like, you got me there, partner.

38:42Oti: We can only deduce by what we're shown and not, not drawing. Like the same thing you said about Passion of the Christ, where you're like, I needed some more backstory. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, fine. If you don't know about Jesus by now,

38:58KT: well, I know I'm going to hell. Where do you think you're going?

39:06Oti: The poly 69 gates.

39:07KT: Jesus, Jesus. There was an alternate ending, which I thought was the ending anyway, but there was an alternate ending for Juice. In the alternate ending, instead of Bishop accidentally falling to his death, he purposely lets go when he hears the police sirens. Does that change anything to you? Like, it obviously doesn't change the fact that Q got the juice now. Oh my god. It doesn't change that. But how do you feel about that alternate ending?

39:42Oti: It doesn't change much. It would be believable for, for him to let go. Like, I wouldn't even think he'd want, he wanted to be saved.

39:54KT: But it's a reclamation over his life. He chose to go out the way he wanted to go out. So that is a bit more, there is a bit more autonomy in his decision, if that were to be the case. But I read it as that. I saw that, like, I saw it as him letting go, being like, I'm done with this shit.

40:11Oti: Well, he does say he doesn't care about his fucking life. So reclamation of what exactly when you don't care reclaiming what

40:17KT: that he wants to go out the way that he wants to go out.

40:20Oti: Mano's already a walking, getting out of life mannequin or whatever you want to call it. Uh, I just didn't buy it. I just, I was like, yeah, sure. You're going to die and fuck that shit. It's, it's not, it's even the gravitas of him either falling or being released. Doesn't even change anything. Anything for me.

40:45KT: It's not like the Get Out alternate ending.

40:47Oti: No.

40:49KT: Yeah. Okay. I feel you. Do you have any other closing thoughts for Belly, for Juice?

40:57Oti: decent watch. Like it's, this is what probably my fifth watch or some shit. And. Yeah. it was good seeing Pac. I think that was about it.

41:12KT: He looks so much younger there, but this was, I think, two years before Poetic Justice. Yeah. Okay. I'm not mad at it, but even just talking about it, I do feel like I wish it was not even better, just that it was a bit more fleshed out that we had more of a, a motivation around the way that they moved.

41:33Oti: Yeah. Give a song. Yeah. Oh,

41:37KT: and we got to see

41:37Oti: Junior from My Wife and Kids.

41:39KT: Yes,

41:42Oti: but also

41:42KT: Queen Latifah actually.

41:44KT: I was in a rut. I was in a rut and Barbershop, a Beauty Shop rather, got me out, but thank you. Friends and lovers. For popping out and joining us another week in the For Your Reference household. How was it kicking off KT and Friends, Oti?

42:05Oti: Oh, amazing. I loved it.

42:09KT: All right. Well, let's, let's leave our friends and lovers with a little bit more. We're going to finish off in the segment. We call For Your Reference, Oti.

42:17Oti: Going to my man, Nino, New Jack City.

42:20KT: Nice. I'm going to do Boyz n the Hood. Oh, come on now.

42:25Oti: Got it.

42:25KT: We need our Furious.

42:28Oti: Does he get up in there?

42:32KT: Really? I was just going to say that, you know, black men have no business fighting a white man's war and you ruined it.

42:40Oti: Still applies.

42:42KT: I don't know. Someone was OVO hoeing all over this episode, actually. Um, on Twitter, Instagram, Spill, when I'm not scared, on TikTok, also Bluesky, and, well, we're @ForYourRefPod.

42:56Oti: Right. That's an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

42:59KT: We're also on Otidemics's Compromise Podcast. If you'd love to leave a rating and review, Black Hippy reunion, we love it all and we love you. And we'll see you next week. Bye.