Interview with “It Lives Inside” Writer/Director, Bishal Dutta

Full transcript of Interview with “It Lives Inside” Writer/Director, Bishal Dutta.

0:04KT: Building on a body of work spanning 19 short films, award winning director Bishal Dutta makes his feature directorial debut with It Lives Inside. It Lives Inside follows an Indian American teenager that unwittingly releases a demonic entity that grows stronger by feeding on her loneliness. It Lives Inside won the Audience Award at the South by Southwest and is in Australian cinemas now. Bishal, thank you so much and welcome to the For Your Reference Podcast.

0:35Bishal: Thanks so much, KT. I'm so excited to be talking to you.

0:38KT: Oh, there's so many delicious food and everything else, themes that I want to get into. But first of all, congratulations on the win. South by Southwest, such a great landmark milestone in film. How does it feel?

0:52Bishal: Thank you so much. It was, it was a tremendous experience to go to South by with film and it's the of the major festivals. It's the 1 I associate most with that kind of fun rowdy kind of audience experience. And we certainly have that. And we've had a tremendous run through the year great genre festivals, and we're wrapping up later this year with Sitges, so it's it's truly been such an honor. Showcasing the film to so many different audiences and getting to see how they kind of react to it.

1:23KT: Because you really want people to get into it, the Letterboxd of it all, the film Twitter of it all.

1:29Bishal: Exactly. I mean, well, and I love that you bring that up because for me, I make movies for people to see, you know, I'm very audience conscious and it's been a dream of mine ever since I was a kid. I didn't necessarily want to make things that were inaccessible or so niche. I wanted to make things that everybody could relate to. So it's always in the back of my head. So really that kind of audience experience, especially theatrically, is so important to me and was such a gratifying part of this experience.

1:57KT: What do passionate fans call it? Like, never remove from box. You're like the opposite of that. You want them to take it out of the box, play with it, and really have fun with it.

2:06Bishal: Exactly. You want it to get wear and tear, you know? Yeah. And certainly my, my favorite movies, when I was growing up, especially, you know, they had that quality, that sort of interactive quality. And with this movie, I was thinking a lot about movies like... The Conjuring, you know, came out when I was, when I was 16, and kids were daring each other to go see it in, in school, you know, because it was so scary. And that kind of communal horror experience was so important to me as a teenager that I wanted to create that for, for a new generation.

2:36KT: Yeah, absolutely. And there's so much, again, there's so much tonality, there's so much texture, to It Lives Inside. And I guess what I wanted to start off with was the final cut. And, you know, in a lot of interviews, you talk about how it's always a draft until it's literally out of your control and it's out there and you can't redo it. what was it like, I guess, finding that tonality and, you know, the sort of levels, highs and lows throughout the film, what was it like getting that sort of balance?

3:05Bishal: Well, it's very much a, like you said, a balancing act. And I think with this particular movie, I wanted to make sure that we were giving the audience, first and foremost, that kind of horror experience we just discussed, but also. A powerful human story and having this character to me that at the, at the center of it, it felt like her arc and her transformation would gel so well with the horror of the film. You know, so it was really about kind of. Calibrating that journey as much as possible. So, for example, in the locker room scene where she makes a kind of pivotal. Decision to reject her former best friend.

3:42KT: Oh, I wanted to fight.

3:44Bishal: Yes, right. She breaks the jar and it sets off really that big sort of sequence of events. That was a scene we were always working on in terms of down to. down to the sound design of that moment of how much whispering you hear from the other people in the locker because it was always about putting the audience right there with this character so that we wouldn't turn on her so that we would understand maybe not agree with what she's doing but that we would understand where she's coming from so i think that kind of calibration of the audience with the character is that kind of roller coaster that you're going on as a filmmaker making the film

4:22KT: Yeah, I was definitely at a conflict. you know, it's that child of an immigrant experience,of trying to fit those two worlds. You know, you talk about being Indian as well as being American. I was born in so called Australia and I'm, I have two Tongan parents. So it was double the culture and double the obligation. in interviews, you talked about your grandfather and the friend's daughter having a jar that she talked to.

4:46Bishal: Yes, I can. I can tell you that story. Um, so this is a story I grew up hearing. My grandfather had, a family friend whose, whose house he went to as a young man in India and the family friend's daughter had a jar. And she would talk to this jar and it was empty. And my grandfather said, Hey, you know, there's nothing in there. Right. And so she got mad at him and unscrewed the lid and flung something at him. Of course, nothing came out. But then my grandfather started getting haunted by something he'd hear knocking on all hours of the night.

5:17Bishal: And supposedly he left a pack of peanuts out once and we turned around and he heard chewing. And when he turned back, the peanuts were gone, you know, so, so that's that's kind of the extent of it. He got out of there as fast as he could. And that's, that's the story. Actually, that I grew up hearing that when it came time to kind of, there was an opportunity to make my 1st feature film. I was thinking a lot about that story and how it had lingered with me so much and it was like. What could that have been? So that was really kind of the genesis of that, of this movie.

5:47KT: Well, that's, that's the storyteller and filmmaker in you, because I wouldn't have been able to tell that very well. But it reminded me, and I think it's very, I think it's a very common experience for like immigrants, child immigrants. Because we have moments where we would go and visit, you know, our loved ones that have passed on in the cemetery and so many stories of, you know, making sure that you do the customs and, you know, like, perhaps they're following you back home. And every sort of instance is the reason why, you know, I definitely resonated with them, maybe not necessarily a jar, but it's the proverbial jar of, I guess, you know, trying to find yourself an identity and that sort of thing.

6:29Bishal: No, I love that you brought that up because I think, you know, I think a lot about what is the kind of iconic image from any horror film that's going to last, whether it's, you know, the car from Christine or the finger knives from Nightmare on Elm Street. our producers did a movie called Us, the golden scissors from that. And so I think there's really something to be said for those props, those specific sort of. Set piece props, you know, that will are meant to linger. And that's why I picked the jar in this one, because I felt like it could mean so many things, you know, that you could take away so many different interpretations of what the jar is.

7:04Bishal: And I felt it would linger in the audience's mind.

7:08KT: Yeah. And it's, it was just like, even you talk about the sound design and I think that was very effective to, to me in particular, because it's a very auspicious thing. Like even I would have dreams growing up and my parents are like, Oh, what did you, what, what did you dream? It means this take care of your auntie. She might not be well, like, like all of these predictive, sort of notions. Even before we get to, visage, even just hearing the noises in the background that sort of, you know, that sort of ethnic senses in me.

7:42KT: Okay, something's going on. It's definitely going to happen.

7:46Bishal: I love that you said that because for me, sound is is so much such a huge part of the horror experience. And on this movie, we were really trying to build the sound to be, you know, kind of the primary force putting us in the point of view of the main character. And I wanted this to be a movie where. Essentially, you're never quite sure where a lot of these sort of ambient noises are coming from. So when you're sitting in a theater and watching it, you're almost kind of snapping just like she is wondering and the sound is pushing you to the same sort of deranged place that she's at.

8:18Bishal: And so all of that I think was for me in terms of the technique was additive to putting the audience right in Sam's shoes.

8:28KT: Yeah, and I guess while we're on that, what is it like being in the audience when your own film is screened?

8:37Bishal: I had a couple of very gratifying experiences this, or next, or sorry, not next week, last week actually.

8:42KT: Although you have your premonition, you know, like in the future.

8:45Bishal: Yeah, I know, I'm having some great experiences this upcoming, no, no, no. Uh, last week I had some great experiences. We actually played at my favorite theater in the world, the AMC Burbank, uh, 16, and we played at the biggest, like, non IMAX screen in there, and it was a packed theater, and it was, you know, it was truly tremendous. Like, there's, there's nothing like it, and it makes me just crave the privilege of getting to entertain people on that theatrical scale for the rest of my life.

9:12KT: Wait, wait, did you want to say that was me? I, I did this.

9:18Bishal: No, you know, I, I have had the experience during trailers, uh, when the trailers would play before other movies over the summer where someone would go, Oh, that looks pretty good. And I had to hold my tongue because I wanted to be like, I made that, you know, it's very exciting. It's, it's truly a dream come true. It's what I've always wanted. And so to have a movie release in theaters and have people respond to it, it's, it's everything.

9:43KT: I want to talk about the character design. it was, it was interesting. Obviously, we don't need to specifically say what it looks like so we can keep, you know, some sort of air of mystery. but it was, it was interesting because, uh, even though I am new to Hindu mythology, I had a couple of references. the, the Kali, Who I understood is also the same Mama-Ji in American Gods as well. Um, so just like staunch. Like, scalped heads as a necklace, all out full war. and that's the goddess. I was like, ooh, I need to get into this. Right. Yeah, so even with a couple of references, I was like, ooh, this is really cool. Like, I'm really, like, I'm really excited to get, into this film as well. And you also talked about, you know, melding iconic sort of horror, like, like the icon sort of, figures as well.

10:37KT: What was it like going through the process of the character design of the Pishach?

10:42Bishal: Yeah, I loved kind of merging these two sources of inspiration. Certainly the references, you know, we were looking at the, um, the art that exists about this creature and We were saying, okay, this is a kind of interpretation of this and how do we take that interpretation, bring it into three dimensions, bringing it into reality and make it feel like realistic sort of vicious being that exists. And then we were also, I was pulling from, you know, this very textured kind of practical, heavy, effects work from movies like Hellraiser. And, uh, and Pumpkinhead, right? The Stan Winston Pumpkinhead is one of my favorites or The Fly or Alien. So it was a bit of both of those sources kind of coming together.

11:27Bishal: And I think for me, it was always about calibrating the design to feel as much like the sort of embodiment of evil as possible and making it feel malicious and making it feel like truly kind of evil incarnate.

11:41KT: Yeah, and I guess this kind of loops back to the final cut and that sort of thing, not necessarily when in the film, but, when did you, was it in the final cut or was it initially when you decided to have, you know, the, the visual sort of audible sort of moments to the character design, like when it would be revealed?

12:01Bishal: That was all kind of in the script, really. So we knew we were going to do it, but there's still such a discovery process and such a collaborative process to getting there. So, in terms of the sound design, knowing that, you know, the creature was going to be off screen for so much of the film. We worked together a lot. I worked together a lot with the sound designer, Nolan McNaughton, and I worked with Nolan McNaughton. To figure out kind of how can we build a language? Essentially, how can I direct a performance essentially of this creature throughout the movie? And he had all these vocalizations and the pops and the cracks and the footsteps.

12:35Bishal: And so I could, you know, we could work together to really create a performance of this creature so that the sound that dimension of sound is telling you about the character telling you if he's mad or if he's kind of happy or whatever. Right? Like. It was such a fun and interesting challenge on this movie to do that.

12:54KT: Yeah, and I, like, even the opening scene in this film is just money. Like, just the way it was shot and the atmosphere. I think building of atmosphere is really the recurring theme. It Lives Inside. Is that, did you draw upon the short films? that you've made because the, the ability to be able to draw people in, especially at the start of the film, is very effective.

13:16Bishal: Yes, it's something that I learned with the shorts and I tried to bring it with me on this, but really, yeah, you're right. I mean, you have to capture the audience right away. And that's not to say you have to capture them with, with violence or loud noises, right? But I think, We tried to design an opening here that would immediately kind of create a mystery in the audience's mind and keep them around at least long enough to try and understand what exactly happened there and hint at kind of the violence that is to come.

13:44KT: Yeah. it was so cool because it was like, we're going to get where we need to go, but the building of that atmosphere, I was like, Oh, I was like, you know, like, look around. There was an interview you did with Greg at Slated, which I believe you used to work at before, and you used to read screenplays, um, and that sort of thing. What, I guess, just generally, what was that experience like, and did that help, I guess, the process of making It Lives Inside?

14:11Bishal: It was so formative for me. I mean, I was, I was, I started working there my first semester of college and was working there until I started making movies that could sustain me in my life. But, you know, getting to read scripts, I, for everybody that wants to make movies, I think it's one of those things that is, is a difficult barrier at times, you know, because What you're, it's so impossible to look at a script for Pulp Fiction or, or, you know, uh, The Social Network or Django Unchained and get anything kind of objective about it because you've seen the film, right?

14:46Bishal: And what you're also seeing by that point is the result of years of collaboration and so many changes that are happening in editorial, so many sort of collaborative changes that are happening. It's a lot of, a lot of the time you're getting what's called a conformed draft. You know what I mean, which is conformed to the final film, but what was so exceptional about that job and why I encourage everyone to seek out that kind of coverage writing job is I was reading scripts for movies that hadn't been made yet. So, it was purely kind of this instinct of what does it work as a story? Does it work without the cinematography? Does it work without the acting? Because truly, I think the discipline is that if it doesn't work on the page, it's never going to work on the screen. Reading 800 or however many scripts that I read there and then hundreds more outside of that.

15:34Bishal: I think that's what gave me this sort of instinct for what works in a story for me personally, you know, rather than following kind of rules and reading just these kind of standard screenplay books. I saw across these hundreds of things, like hundreds of scripts, so many things that worked for me consistently and didn't work for me consistently. So I think it was crucial to developing a sense of instinct and taste.

15:59KT: Yeah, and I noticed the two Quentin Tarantino references, so if you have like a secret Letterboxd account, I'd like to hear your review on The Movie Critic when it comes out.

16:08Bishal: Oh man, I can't wait for The Movie Critic. It's gonna be great. He's just a great writer and he understands tension in a way that very few people out there do.

16:16KT: There's a lot of flair and there's a lot of fun, um, in Quentin Tarantino, absolutely. before I get to the final question, we haven't really had time to like, shout out the cast and the performances, Megan as well as Mohana and Betty Gabriel. We have a lot of time for Betty Gabriel in the For Your Reference household. Get Out, Upgrade. It Lives In

16:36Bishal: Upgrade loved her and Upgrade. Um, it's a great film. Yeah, it's so good. And Betty is just a tremendous actor as are all of them. You know, Megan, uh, uh, Neeru Bajwa is phenomenal in this movie. I love it. Vik Sahay, Gage Marsh. I mean, this was a movie that, you know, I was kind of drawing not autobiographically, but I was certainly drawing on real people that I knew and kind of things that I'd seen in, in my community. And It was just so gratifying to watch these actors embody those characters and we tried not to talk about movie characters so much as real people.

17:11Bishal: And so it was just a, it was just a tremendous experience to watch them bring these characters to life. They're all such incredible actors. Yeah,

17:20KT: I think as the kids say, if you know, you know, like, if you know, you know,

17:23Bishal: Exactly.

17:26KT: Um, but yeah, the performances were so great. It just, you just felt it. You just felt it straight away, but we finished our reviews with a recommendation. So what would you pair with It Lives Inside as a double feature?

17:39Bishal: Oh, man, what would I pair with It Lives Inside? Well, if you want to see kind of the lineage of it and where it's coming from, I would, I would suggest Ginger Snaps, the 90s Canadian horror film. It's a movie that was so incredibly inspiring to me and it's to me that perfect balance of the coming of age story with horror and manages to interweave the 2 in such interesting ways. So it was 1 that was on my mind throughout the process.

18:06KT: I love asking that question because you never know where that recommendation is going to go. Bishal, thank you so much for your time. I really loved watching It Lives Inside and I really enjoyed chatting to you today.

18:20Bishal: That makes me so happy. Thank you so much, KT. It was lovely chatting with you.

18:22KT: It was nice to meet you. Thank you so much. Take care. Bye.