Burning-I’m hungry, how Paju?

Full transcript of Burning-I’m hungry, how Paju?.

0:00KT: Hey, kids. Welcome back to For Your Reference. You're listening to Your Phrase or Mine, and Oti is our whimsical host for the phrase this week.

0:00Oti: So this week is from South Korea, and it goes

0:14Oti: eating rice cakes while lying down.

0:17KT: I think this phrase encapsulates a self detrimental quality. So if you're laying down and you're eating rice cakes or anything else, it's going to be a choking hazard.

0:31Oti: No, mate. It's similar to the English one of a piece of cake. Like, something is just easy or very easy to do.

0:38KT: Do do you wanna try it and we'll see how quickly you choke? Yep. And in the meantime, let's get on with the show. Welcome to For Your Reference. Hope you had fun jackpolancing to our intro music. This week was my pick, and we are covering Burning, which was a 2018 Korean movie that came out. It had a release, and it recently has started streaming again on Netflix.

1:30Oti: Yep. It was released on DVD in March 2019.

1:37KT: Yeah. So let's get get into the stats because we're super academic. Oh my. So May 2018 is when it officially came out in the Cannes Festival. It also made its rotations around the world. The budget, I guess, probably need more of a deep dive, but at the moment, we can't afford IMDb Pro, so I'll just go off the stats that we have here. Opening weekend was 26,000 in America, and the gross is 718,000. So it it sounds a bit abysmal.

2:15KT: But, again, I'm pretty sure there's some sort of context that we don't really understand about. And it's won awards. Like, it's not something that's just gone unnoticed.

2:15Oti: Oh, yeah. Totally.

2:15KT: And let's just quickly capture that off because it is worth mentioning. It got quite a lot of nominations as well as some wins. So we've got director, iconic director, Lee Chang-dong. So we've got some wins in the Adana Film Festival, the Adelaide Film Festival, whoop whoop, if that's the Australian one.

2:15Oti: Oh, yeah. I think it's

2:15KT: We're not cinephiles.

2:47KT: Is that what they call it? Yep. That what the kids call it? So we're not that. So I'm assuming it's Australian. You also have some wins in the Asia Pacific Screen Awards, and it also had a nod in the Academy Awards as well. Didn't win, but it was also submitted in Korea or for the Korea category. So that's what we're talking about this week. Let's just quickly talk about the cast. We've already mentioned that the director is the iconic Lee Chang-dong.

3:17KT: He has been around for quite a while even though he does have, for that time, a relatively short list Yeah. In regards to movies he's directed. We haven't necessarily tackled them yet, but it's definitely on our list. Just like a fine wine, you're not going to have it every time. You're going to schedule a proper time, get the candles, and it's a whole event.

3:37Oti: And I feel like this is a proper it's a it's a good first step to be introduced to what he's done.

3:37KT: Totally. Totally. So let's talk about the cast.

3:48KT: The main sort of protagonist, arguably or definite definitively, he is the protagonist of this. You have the character Jong-su Lee Mhmm. Who's and I'm so sorry. I know my love for BTS might make you think that I speak fluent Korean, but if I do mispronounce this, I do apologize. So you've got the main character, Jong-su Lee, who's played by Yoo Ah-in. And then you've got Steven Yeun, who plays Ben. And then the other main character for this movie is Hae-mi Shin Yep. Who's played by

4:26KT: and I I'm so sorry. I'm not sure which is her first and last name. So I'll just say Jeon Jong-seo. Yep. Yep. So Anna Crocs, those are the stats. That's the cast. That's the director for this movie. I think it might be good just to capture off before we even start talking about the movie, just our general sort of experiences with foreign film and foreign TV shows.

4:51KT: Because I think that's quite important to capture off before we give you the tea of how we feel about this actual movie. It's important to remember this part of the segment. So at For Your Reference,

5:03KT: we do watch a whole range of things, and that's the reason why we wanted to start this podcast as well because we watch a whole range of things, and we have a lot of opinions, and we just wanna share and wanna hear what you guys think about it as well. So we also had the first foreign sort of TV show or film we talked about was Money Heist. Yep. And I guess that's just a little bit of a flavoring about the things that we watch. But we also watch a lot of

5:30KT: Asian, Korean, particularly recently, TV shows and also movies as well. So I just wanted to give you a little bit of a capture off on that and what our experiences are.

5:41Oti: Yeah. So we've watched quite a few of Korean movies and TV shows.

5:44KT: And can I just say the Korean language is so fun to listen to?

5:50Oti: It is. It is. Intonations and inflections when they speak, like Yeah. When they want to convey anger or seriousness, it's quite interesting to hear.

5:58KT: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that it there's quite a lot of things that are said without actual words. Like, that's used a lot. Where like, a lot of inflections, and it just it colors the narrative when we watch Korean TV shows and also movies as well. So I just wanna point out that we do have, you know, a love. We do love Korean media in general because we will say some honest things about this movie. So I do think it's it's important that we do preface this from the onset.

6:36Oti: Yep. Definitely.

6:36KT: So let's before we even talk about the movie, I think it is worth noting that we have Steven Yeun. And he's been in, you know, quite a few cute little indie mainstream things. So I thought it might be good just to capture off our experiences with him. And you've seen him before.

6:36Oti: I've seen him in Walking Dead? Yep. The Walking Dead.

7:00KT: What sort of character was he? Was he the token sort of Asian? Or

7:00Oti: No. He was so much more than that. He he grew in responsibilities and in his role as the season progressed. When he introduced, he was just a delivery I think it was delivery driver, and then it just became more integral to the group. And we all loved him. He became a fan favorite before he yeah. I'm not gonna spoil Walking Dead. So y'all still out there and you wanna watch The Walking Dead, get on it.

7:25KT: That's me. I got my hands up. And you already made me watch Game of Thrones, so you're not going to string me in again.

7:25Oti: Oh, it's coming.

7:34Oti: But, yeah, he's he's he's a solid actor. And then we watched him in Arm Shadows Mayhem.

7:39KT: Mayhem. Yes. And he was quite He was very good in that. Yeah. He's a really good actor. I feel like Steven Yeun is one of those actors where even if you haven't seen him in anything, you know he's good value.

7:51KT: You just know that he's a solid guy or he seems like a solid guy, and his his acting will be pretty good. And that's the first time that I was acquainted with his actual acting chops. In Mayhem, that is. Yeah. And I I thought it was really great. You you could tell it had an indie type style. It reminded me of The Belko Experiment. Oh, yeah. It it executed itself better than The Belko Experiment, but this is more about his acting. Right? So

8:17KT: Steven did a very great job in that, and I was impressed. Like, a lot of the time when you watch things and you know that it's not big budget or it's not going to be Oscar winning, you see actors phoning it in. Right? They're not necessarily bringing their best foot forward. And I appreciated watching Steven. He gave everything in that role in Mayhem because that was the first time I've seen him. Right? And that was very admirable because I'm like, wow. This is amazing. You probably didn't need to bring your full force of acting,

8:49KT: but it was well appreciated. And I think I I garnered a lot of respect for him just seeing the way that he carried himself as an actor. Yeah.

8:49Oti: And and he does the same in Burning,

9:01Oti: and he's he's quite likable. And he gives this aura of maybe I'm jumping ahead of myself here while talking deeply about the plot. I think that will come later. My friend. But he comes off as the likable antihero. You know? Like, you have we have some solid antiheroes in in in entertainment at the moment. Uh-huh. You know, from Dexter, from watching Breaking Bad with you know?

9:30KT: People like to back it. Yeah. Long as it's relatable. As long as people have a relatable backstory. Yeah. So

9:39Oti: with his character, it's quite different, though, because he's this rich, young you know, he he feels like he has this air to him. Right? He he

9:51KT: gave me some semblances of Christian Bale in American Psycho. Yes. He did. Yeah. Yep. I I see that. Yeah. I definitely see that. And I I don't wanna compare another actor to another because, obviously, they deserve their own merit. And I I stan a strong Steven Yeun, and he will go in my trophy case of all of the people I stan. That sounds a bit psycho. You're welcome. Welcome For Your Reference. This is what we do here, guys. Just slowly incriminating ourselves every which way.

10:24KT: Tune in next week to see what Oti's gonna be incriminated for. But, no, he he really gave me that charismatic flair that I appreciated and was satiated by watching Christian Bale. Let's let's just quickly digress for a second. Christian Bale in American Psycho, you know that what he was doing was fucked up. Right? Yeah. You know you know that you shouldn't be rooting him on, but he just he pulled you in. He had that gravitas. And you kind of you know,

11:00KT: just like everyone has that twisted family member, you kind of just ignore that so you can get along with the party. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And that's what I got from Steven Yeun. And I really hope and he has been around. Right? And I hope he continues to have that staying power so we can continue to see him not only in Korean media, but also in, you know, worldwide international sort of bits as well. Like, I would really appreciate to continue to see him in my household. Yeah.

11:25Oti: And I'm glad that he's actually taking up roles because, you know, there's this

11:36Oti: kind of death cycle where if you're in TV, maybe not so much nowadays, but where you get stigma. Yeah. If you get killed off the TV and you kind of find yourself in this vicious cycle where you're stuck finding either trying to look for roles, not getting the correct roles, doing b grade movies. Mhmm. But he's He did Mayhem just out of Walking Dead. Yeah. But he's he's actually trying to, you know, do his own you know, strut his own stuff and Uh-huh. Good on him. Yeah. Good for him. Right?

12:06KT: So let's let's dive into the movie. In my K-drama viewing, I haven't come across the main characters aside from Steven Yeun here. So let's let's quickly capture off just our actual impressions, our initial impressions in watching this movie. And if you had any expectations, were they met? We always live in spoiler town. Sorry if you haven't moved here yet. Population, Oti, KT, and you, hopefully. If you haven't watched this movie, I don't think it's gonna change anything. But if you haven't watched this movie, we don't wanna be the people that

12:48KT: deflower you in spoilers. So please turn away. We have many other episodes. Otherwise, you can welcome yourself back once you've watched this movie. But we're definitely gonna dive into the spoilers. So let's go first impressions.

13:03Oti: I didn't go into this with any expectations. I think I even zoned out while watching the trailer just because I wanted to be surprised. Yeah. I wanted to know what it was like, many times we watch trailers and we get amped up, like, oh, this looks amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And all the good bits all the good bits were in trailers. Preconceived ideas of what the movie would be about,

13:27Oti: and it really doesn't translate when you watch it. So when you're watching the trailer for this, I just zoned out. And by the time we came to watch it, I had zero expectations. Yeah. I was ready to be led. Mhmm. Thoughts well

13:44KT: well, the first We have we have endless qualms.

13:47Oti: Well, it's a it's a two and it's like a two hour movie. Right? Two and a half. Yeah. And it did not need to be that long to convey its message.

13:58KT: I agree.

14:01Oti: Because we spend an hour ten just trying to navigate the relationship between Hae-mi and Lee Mhmm. Which which some bits are interesting, but they overdo it. Yeah. And you could feel like if they re edit this, if they cut this a bit more Uh-huh. They could create a more cohesive compact story where

14:01KT: In fifteen minutes.

14:01Oti: No. By any means, this was a watchable movie. And it has a certain aspect of rewatchability.

14:40KT: Oh, okay. Where the fuck? If anyone if anyone wants to watch this movie again, because I will not. If anyone wants to watch this movie with Oti, feel free because I I would not qualify it as rewatchable.

14:40Oti: I would want to watch it again just so that I could see if

14:58Oti: there are aspects of it that I missed. Because

15:02KT: If if you I think this is a Tongan proverb. If you miss the Kool Aid once, don't try and drink it again.

15:12Oti: It's better the second time around, doesn't it? Oh my. Well, I know I know what I experienced, and I know what the movie tried to convey. And Uh-huh. There's a lot of things that they didn't say that they wanted to or they left for the audience to try and figure out for themselves. Yeah. Which isn't bad because, you know, people need to take away things by themselves, and it needs to relate to you in a different aspect. Uh-huh. So I'm happy with that. I'm happy with that. I don't have any qualms,

15:44Oti: but the problem is when they overdo it. Okay. So it was a heavy handedness. To the point where it actually affects the movie. Mhmm. It's no longer about leaving it to the audience. It's more of, hey, mate. This looks like a gap. You know what I mean?

16:03KT: Like, let's digress for a second. So Coachella two thousand and nineteen recently happened. And straight off the back of that, Donald Glover slash Childish Gambino actually released Guava Island on Amazon that he had with Rihanna. Right? That was, like, fifty minutes. Yeah. Fifty minutes. So I feel like in this day and age, there's no excuse to have a two and a half hour movie and have us sitting with hands up fucking ass trying to figure out what the fuck just happened.

16:36Oti: Well, using the words of the great Batiatus, I appreciate your point. But

16:42KT: Will you ram me with Jupiter's cock? Oh, yeah. Well, Spartacus has.

16:49Oti: The thing is, you know, Donald Glover did Guava Island, and it was so captivating because we barely by the end of the movie, we're like, oh, is this is this it? Like, oh, is it done? You know? It was like, we were so entrenched into the world of of what he was trying to portray. And he achieved so much in fifty minutes that I felt that this movie has done in two hours.

16:49KT: And I think that's a perfect pickup,

17:17KT: Oti. Because when you have I think the best expectation that you can have for viewers if you're creating something is you want to end leaving the viewer wanting more.

17:33Oti: Yeah.

17:34KT: Right? You don't necessarily want to spoon feed people, and you don't necessarily wanna make things so vague that they lose interest, which arguably might have happened in this movie. What you want to do is create and immerse the viewer in a world where they're so encapsulated that they wanna know more, and they spend years on Reddit theorizing what might be or what was.

17:59Oti: Yeah. Which there's no point in theorizing anything in this movie because we know what the director wanted us to you know, it's it's quite obvious.

17:59KT: Well, it's anything you want it to be, really.

17:59Oti: Not really. Like, I'm jumping you to the end, but we have a scene where Lee figures out that, okay, Steven isn't that great of a guy because he always yeah. Had a He he always he always had a suspicion. Like, why is this guy?

17:59KT: Old dude.

17:59Oti: Yeah. But he more so him, you know, from his perspective. He was like, why does a young, rich guy hang out with Hae-mi?

18:27KT: Handsome.

18:27Oti: What's going on? You know? And he started snooping around in the in the in the in in his bathroom the first time around.

18:39KT: Hey. Can I just can I just ask a question Also to you guys listening, I feel like in a lot of things that we watch, people go through other people's bathrooms? And I think in American sort of movies and stuff, they call it medicine cabinets. And they just have a sticky beak, which I think might be an Australian term. It's essentially being nosy. Right? Does that really happen? Do people really do that?

19:05Oti: I've I don't know. I don't think so. Well, not for my not for my end. Like, that feels a bit too.

19:12KT: It's a bit it's a bit much. Right? It feels a bit too much. Yeah. Sorry. Continue. I just I just wonder, is that actual is that a thing? Is that peep was that what people do? So

19:23Oti: Lee thinks that something is off from the get go, but doesn't really jump to. Yeah. But doesn't really follow it up. Like, he just says, you know, he he tells Hae-mi, hey. Why do you think he's that interested in you? Like, you know? Uh-huh. And that was a fair thing. That was a fair

19:23KT: He comes off as jealous as well.

19:23Oti: He comes off as jealous, but it's a question that needs to be asked sometimes. Yeah. You know? Just so that you could think of all the possibilities because, you know, love is

19:57Oti: universal, and you can find it anywhere. And

19:59KT: Oh, can you?

19:59Oti: You can.

19:59KT: That's why we have Oti babies everywhere.

20:04Oti: Can find anywhere. You know? It's not a part of, but it's good to ask yourself these questions. And if you if the answers are correct, then, you know, good on you. You found yourself a lover. But if not, then you need to reevaluate. And that's what Hae-mi didn't understand. Yep. And possibly, that was one of the reasons why she ended up dead.

20:28KT: Damn, dawg. But you're just going reduce it to that, really?

20:28Oti: She did not think

20:33Oti: of all the possibilities that raised a red flag.

20:35KT: I think the biggest problem for Hae-mi was she just fell asleep whenever she fell asleep. That is as a woman, that is red flags all over. Like, that was such a big concern for me. I'm just like, really, girl? And you went out to Africa and you just, like, fell asleep wherever you fell. I don't think it was even narcolepsy. I think she just fell asleep where she felt like she wanted to fall asleep. That's so dangerous as a woman.

21:03KT: Sorry. I just that's that's just a little that's just a little detour. Whether you're a woman or a man or nonbinary, look after yourselves, please. But, yeah, definitely. Can I go into my first impressions?

21:03Oti: Oh, wait. But we know she's struggling

21:18Oti: with the greater meaning of life or what she calls great hunger. Like, she's trying to actively pursue what her life means, what's her purpose in this world.

21:32KT: But she was kind of a contradiction because she talked about it was little hunger. Right? Little hunger Little hunger and great hunger. Yeah. But then she was also a space head. So

21:42Oti: She did seem like a space head. Yeah.

21:45KT: There were times where you wonder how many IQs can she rub together. Right? But then she would there would be intrinsic deep moments that she would have as well. So it got it got a bit confusing. It wasn't very cohesive, her as an actual character. I I guess it's like, you know, people can be book smart and not street smart sort of thing, but I don't think she was either as well.

22:13Oti: I think she went with the flow, and she did the best she could to, you know, leave in the moment. And there's nothing wrong with that because she had surgery done because she she said as she said, she was quite

22:13KT: It seems like she had surgery halfway through the movie as well.

22:13Oti: She was quite

22:32KT: I'm just understanding. She went from, like, minus eight cup to, like, a B cup in the blink of a sunset.

22:38Oti: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I noticed that. But she I've lost my train of thought.

22:44KT: Okay. What? Just thinking about a B cup. Well, while you're while you're trying to remember where you are, because I don't think I'll have a time to naturally bring this up except for now, I feel like we've progressed as a people. And we're so accepting, and we're able to tell more stories from different perspectives as well. And I know this sounds really deep, but it really isn't. If we can see titties, then you should also show dicks. That's all I'm gonna say. I'm going to petition it. Twenty nineteen.

23:20KT: I'll leave it at there. But I'm just saying, like, it it's not like you know? I guess you need to be forewarned when you're about to see a dick. But it's just you see so many breaststices. It just doesn't make sense. It it there should be an equal ratio. Zulzum saying, continue. Do you remember where you are now?

23:39Oti: No. But just give us give us your overview. Give us your overview of what you thought about the movie.

23:47KT: So let's talk about it. I had a lot of thoughts while I was watching the movie, and that spawned off on the vagueness in the movie as well. It's very rare for me as a viewer to actually read critic reviews, and I'm not poo pooing critic profession. I do believe that it's important. But when we watch things, I don't necessarily it's it's not a make or break.

24:17KT: If we watch something and it feels intriguing or we like the actors or we've heard about the director, we will give it a go in spite of its bad ratings or in spite of its, you know you know, lack of gravitas that it has. Right? So I just do wanna preface that from the outset. So a lot of the time, I don't really I don't really regard myself with reviews, particularly critics' reviews. But after this movie was done, Oti's like, let's record it. I'm like, no, man. I need to read more context.

24:52KT: We actually call it book clubbing. So that this is just a little insight for the For Your Reference household. We do what we call book clubbing, and it was more fun when IMDb used to have forums. Because we used to go after we used to watch something, we would go into IMDb and go into the forums

25:10KT: and, you know, just see what people's opinions are in general. So even though IMDb doesn't have its forums anymore, we still do our book clubbing in ways of reviews and YouTube videos and how people are feeling. And I usually don't do that. Like, after I watch a movie is how I feel about the movie. And, obviously, you're going to hear how I feel about it, but I wanted to make sure that it was comprehensive and it was within context. So I

25:40KT: I did some reading. I listened to some YouTube reviews, and I still don't understand what the big hope with a capital w h is about this movie. Even listening to reviews about this movie, you know, they were talking about how the cinematography was amazing. The directing was amazing, which I agree Mhmm. A 100%. But then they kind of just, you know, in a in a swipe, just talk about how it's a vague narrative

26:09KT: allowed you the room to breathe. Nah, man. I'm not about that life. I can read through that nuance. That means the story wasn't there. Right? Don't don't try and package me up something that I know isn't there. Right? Because that's just a waste of ribbon, and that's just a waste of tape. So first initial thoughts of this movie. I think I I do have a bias for Korean TV and movies.

26:09Oti: Yes. You do. Yes. You don't think of you do. You do.

26:09KT: And also because his name is Bernie Boutonne. Right?

26:46KT: I wanted to like this movie. Like, I really wanted to like this. And with Steven Yeun, I was like, okay. And with Lee Chang-dong, even though we haven't really ventured into his world, his name has come up a lot. Right? I wanted to like this movie, and I had a lot of expectation for this movie, and it just didn't deliver. It just didn't deliver. And you know what? The crux of it is a very simple story. And twenty minutes in, I said to you, I appreciate

27:17KT: that this is a straightforward story because in this day and age, you're watching things that are so complicated, that are so intricate, that by the time the movie or the TV show is over, you haven't really learned anything. You haven't really gone past surface level. You know what I mean? And what I mean by that is we talk about you know, I was constantly trying to like the Hardy Boys, I was constantly trying to look for my clue, and I couldn't find the clue. Right? Did you have the clue?

27:53Oti: No. Because

27:55KT: Your clue retracted.

27:56Oti: I told you there's no deeper meanings in a lot of things that you're trying to bring out.

27:56KT: For it. I kept looking for it. Right? When Hae-mi's character was doing her little pantomime, I'm like, oh, open your eyes. Open your ears. Pay attention. This is going to be integral to the narrative of this movie. This is foreshadowing one zero one. This is going to be very important.

28:03Oti: You're reading into it too much. Because there was nothing there.

28:03KT: I was essentially writing my own movie. But she talks about eating the tangerine, and she's like, don't focus on the fact that the tangerine isn't there.

28:36KT: And I guess what the director and the screenwriters were saying, don't focus on the fact that a narrative isn't there at all. Just enjoy the cinematography. Just enjoy the acting. Like, I just it wasn't right, and it's not fair. You cannot spend two and a half hours and x amount of dollars and x amount of hours and x amount of workers that contributed to this movie and have me feeling

29:09KT: empty. And maybe maybe that's things I need to work on within myself. Maybe that's nothing to do with the movie, but it just felt wrong to me. So, again, like, through watching the movie, I constantly try to piece things together. And if you haven't listened to our episode of Us, I felt similar disappointment in this movie. Because what I mean by that is the movie Burning twenty eighteen that is now available on Netflix wasn't cohesive enough. You brought me into a world that in in

29:47KT: most respects was grounded in reality. But in any case, we're in your world for two and a half hours. Right? You brought me into this world, and there were so many foundational fundamental questions that were not being answered that I couldn't focus on the beauty that people keep talking about in the movie because I was busy trying to fill in the gaps myself. I feel like it would be better or maybe it was lost in translation because I feel like this movie shouldn't be called Burning. It should be called simmering at best.

30:21Oti: Well, we might go into what you thought were glaring issues with the movie, and I'd try and answer it to the best of my ability because I thought and as much as I didn't think it was a great movie, it did have the foundation of, you know, a good storytelling. Well, you know, it had a beginning, middle, and an end. And we were introduced to the characters quite nicely. You know? Hae-mi's character was introduced while she was dancing around,

30:50Oti: you know, just, I think, trying to get people into some raffle winning, you know, do the best thing.

30:56KT: Just the job to pay the bills, essentially. Yeah. And she recognizes Jong-su. Jong-su. And their relationship I wouldn't even say it as a relationship. Their friend Their entanglement. The entanglement or acquaintance. That's the best. It was they were more than acquainted. They were entangled. Entangled.

31:14Oti: Alright. Well, nowadays, you can be acquainted with someone who just who we've just slept with. You know? It's just Oh my. The world's changing. You know?

31:24KT: Yeah. Oti being progressive as well. Anyway,

31:27Oti: Jong-su's character. Yes? He seemed yeah. He seemed harmless.

31:32KT: Right? Yeah. I really liked him. I wanted to keep him in my pocket and make sure he was okay.

31:37Oti: Like, he he just went with the flow. Mhmm. So when Hae-mi decided to go to Africa, he was like, yeah. Cool. Whatever. She comes back and does a Ross on him. Oh, that's a Friends reference.

31:54KT: Rachel No, sir. No, sir. I will not allow you in the gates.

31:58Oti: How dare you? If you watch Friends, you're all waiting for the moment when Ross was coming back. And then when he came back, he had a girlfriend, and that killed Rachel. And we're like, oh, that was the same feeling I got when watching this. I felt really sad for Jong-su.

32:18KT: Sorry. Did you say something?

32:20Oti: But anyway, he gets really sad. He no. He doesn't get sad. He's just you feel like he doesn't really care. Right?

32:32KT: I think he just just didn't ask for more. He just seems like the sort of guy that would apologize for his existence.

32:40Oti: Yeah. Yeah. And one of the funny comments he made while we're watching the movie is possibly that Jong-su was looking for a reason to hate Ben, but couldn't find any because Ben was so likable. Yeah. Right?

32:53KT: He was trying to find some sort of fault, and he didn't have one. Yeah. He didn't have one. And because Jong-su was such a great guy, he couldn't really say much Yeah. In the matter. Yeah. I you know, a lot of things like muddied the water, like, I guess I understand. So I understand that characters have lives, and like humans, we're fallible and we're multifaceted. I understand that. But if we're watching a movie and it has nothing to do with the core narrative, then don't introduce it, especially when you have a a vague

33:29KT: sort of storytelling because then it just confuses and muddies the waters. Case in point, his relationship with his father. I do understand that it was important because the dad's demise was essentially grounded in his pride. Cue. Super cue. You know? That was essentially encapsulated in that, what, twenty second sound bite. But they kept calling back to it, and I'm like, okay. Alright. This is ramping up. You know? This means something. I've got another piece to my puzzle. Right? When

34:00KT: really because a lot of the time, when things started to get slow, I'm like, okay. Can he leave Ben and Hae-mi alone and go back to his dad and try and figure out what's going on with his dad? But it it kind of just placed all the pieces there and just left you to decide if you wanted to put it together or not.

34:20Oti: I don't think I agree with that assessment. It's not a builder movie. Well, with his with his father, it was quite clear on how the relationship was. And when Jong-su was trying to get people to sign a petition for how good Mhmm. His father was and how friendly he was. He wasn't really that either. Like, he wasn't he wasn't friendly. He wasn't he wasn't making friends with his neighbors. He was that's not him. He was quite angry. Uh-huh. And Jong-su says that himself, like, my dad was a very angry person.

34:54Oti: He would go from zero to a I think he said he had an anger disorder. He he'd go from zero to a 100 in a second, you know? Uh-huh. And it kinda showed you. It painted a picture of why they were the way they were. Like

35:08KT: But I think a core reason of why the mom left was because of that. And I guess this is something that we don't have enough time to get into, but it must have been a really bad situation. I'm I'm I'm being sympathetic. It must have been a very bad situation for the mother to leave and not take her children with her.

35:31Oti: Because we're introduced to the mother later on.

35:31KT: That's a more interesting movie, actually.

35:31Oti: We're introduced to the mother later on, and she looks quite she's doing well for herself.

35:40KT: Yeah. She looks cute. She's

35:42Oti: she's dressed in this. She looks quite elegant. And she knows how to text. How many parents these days know how to text? How rude was that? She's staring at her phone. She hasn't seen her son in sixteen years, and all she could do was just stare at her phone.

35:54KT: Well, she needed a favor. Right? That's why she called it suddenly.

36:00Oti: Well, she needed to find a way to raise money so they could pay off. But either way, the relationship with between Jong-su and his father, I think, played a pivotal role in that I think once the father was sentenced to eighteen months in prison Uh-huh.

36:21Oti: He saw it as an opportunity to do do something for Hae-mi. I think he saw that as a turning point. Right? I saw that as his turning point. Yeah. That after that, he sold off the calf. Well, he did reference that earlier earlier in the movie, but he sold off the cow. And from that, he knew what exactly he wanted to do to Ben.

36:21KT: But excuse me, sir. That happened,

36:44KT: I would say an hour and a half. If I'm being generous, two hours. Like, that happened after a whole lot of nothing. Nada. A whole lot of nothing happened. What say ye, sir?

36:59Oti: Yeah. They did spend a lot of time just doing a fluff, which didn't really put which really wasn't part of the core storyline, but we did get some valuable information, like trying to see the relationship between Hae-mi and her family. Uh-huh. Because we know that well, at at the start, I thought Hae-mi didn't have a family altogether because she said she was all alone in the world. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the same thing with Ben. Because Ben's motive for I think Ben's criteria for killing who he's killing is people who wouldn't be missed.

37:35KT: Actually, let's let's talk about this so we don't run out of time.

37:45KT: He he spoke a lot in, like, a symbolic sort of nature, especially when he was talking about his killings. Right? It's quite clear. I I think the reward that we get is we actually get definitive evidence. Definitive is relative. But if you've watched this movie, this is the most definitive thing that you can take away. Right? That he was a killer. And what we saw earlier in the movie with Jong-su looking through his medicine cabinet or his bathroom was we later found out that these were trophies. Right? And, finally, my constant

38:24KT: picking apart and analyzing of this movie paid off. When he started to talk about the greenhouses, I knew he was talking about people. Yeah. There there was one theory where I thought maybe he was North Korean, but that's the only thing. But in any case, when he talked about the greenhouses, the there were two adjectives that came up, and again, it was subtitles, so we're not really sure if it was direct translation or not. He said that they were useless, and he didn't use the word barren. There was another word that he used,

38:56KT: but he was essentially, it was him justifying his kills for the greenhouses. And that's not really I I I'm so sorry. I can't remember what the word was. But the way that he described the greenhouses didn't sound like inanimate objects. It sounded like people. You know, people that don't bring any value. They're a scourge to society. And I think the biggest point was no one was going to miss them. Yeah. Right? So I guess in that sort of sense, on the spectrum of killings, maybe Ben wanted to justify that he's not the worst. Right?

39:35KT: He acknowledges that he does need a kill, and he does it every two months. But it's not as bad as just killing someone that has a family and a mortgage and people depending on him or her. Yeah. Right? So and that's that's an interesting point as well because when we come to the pointy end of the film in the last fifty minutes, Jong-su does confront him, and he does acknowledge that he hasn't spoken to Hae-mi for a month. Right?

40:05KT: And that's again, we don't really know how far since that point in time where he he follows him to the cafe to when Ben actually finds him sitting there staking him out. Right? Yeah. And he's invited in with a dinner party again. We don't know how much kinda feels a bit of deja vu with Hae-mi earlier. Right? Yep. So yeah. And we'll get to that. But we don't know how far that stretch in time was. So I'm going to assume that it was quite quick.

40:32KT: And if we think about his timeline where he said that he can burn a greenhouse every two months because no one's going to notice and no one's going to care, I'm taking the assumption that he actually the next time in between his kills was a month. So it seems like as a as an American Psycho or as a Korean psycho, if you pardon the pun, he was escalating. And his appetite for this was getting bigger. And I really feel like, you know, in in Criminal Minds, I'm not sure if this is official Quantico

41:07KT: sort of language, but in Criminal Minds, they talk about unsubs having a trigger. You know? They're living their best life doing their killing spree, doing it in a regulated way so they can continue to live in society, but there's something that that that causes the exasperation in their killings and the acceleration of the frequency of the killings. And I really feel like Jong-su's character is what was Ben's trigger.

41:39Oti: Because he's quite fascinated with him. Yes. He's quite fascinated with him, which is I think he's never experienced that before.

41:49KT: I I'm not sure if he saw it as a potential co conspirator or if he saw it as another victim. It it was it was quite an interesting dynamic. Let's dive into that.

41:49Oti: It really was because

42:00Oti: here he comes, and one of the first things he says to Jong-su is that, I want you to write something for me.

42:11KT: Yes.

42:13Oti: And I was like, oh, okay. That's interesting. You know? About my story. Yeah. Yeah. He said that quite early. Yeah. And then when when Hae-mi goes missing and we have Jong-su sitting in Hae-mi's old apartment Uh-huh. Tapping away, I was like, oh, there it is. He's got a rhino neck spazane or something and which we're not really told what he wrote.

42:37KT: Mhmm.

42:39Oti: I think that's a missed opportunity, but, you know, that's just me.

42:39KT: Did he write anything, though?

42:39Oti: We're not exposed to whatever it is that he writes. We're not exposed to a lot in this movie, to be fair. Than the fact that he wrote a petition letter, which people said it was it read great, you know, but other than that, we're not exposed to his skills. But we do know his love for Faulkner makes makes Ben Mhmm. Want to read up on him because the when Jong-su goes back to him

43:09KT: But does he does he genuinely I feel like that was just another device for him to fuck with Jong-su.

43:09Oti: But how would he know Jong-su would be there?

43:09KT: Oh, come on now. Some big ass pickup truck following you? He knew. He knew he was being tailed, and I think he was thrilled by the chase. Time when he bent when Jong-su went to him at the cafe. I think he knew. So if if someone can successfully execute these killings

43:36KT: and live his best life and no one come and arrest him, I'm pretty sure he knows how to be tailed or who's tailing him. I think he wanted to understand Jong-su more. He was fascinated.

43:48Oti: And that's why he was reading what Jong-su was fascinated with because he said Faulkner was pretty much telling a story of his life.

43:57KT: So let's I I definitely don't wanna run out of time, and I do wanna talk about this. Let's talk about Ben's character. Okay? So he's got that Korean psycho complex. Right? I I I'm in two minds about how I feel about how he chooses his victims, and I would like to get your thoughts on it. So these are the two different thoughts of thoughts of you. Oh my. Mhmm. I think that's a original phrase or mine. Oh, here we go. We're going to coin it. We're gonna tip drill it. So the the two perspectives

44:34KT: or the potential sort of drivers that I have for Ben's character is he is looking for desolate souls that really just have have no value to themselves or to society, and he he needs to satiate his bloodthirst. So he just chooses these people of low impact. Right? So that's one that's one point of view. The other point of view that I'm tossing around is he meets a woman that is so engaging, that has, you know, this this elevated world experience. Right? And it seems on the surface

45:21KT: that she has so much to offer, much like Ben's character. But once you start to peel off the layers, you realize that they're hollow, and any sort of growth that they have is superficial. And I I think I tend to lean towards the latter. You know, people wearing a mask and, you know, deep down, there really isn't anything there. But I would love to hear your thoughts on, I guess, the ethos and his methodology to find victims.

45:53Oti: I think his profile for finding victims is quite standard among serial killer. You target people that won't be missed, so he doesn't raise any red flags with the police. You know?

45:53KT: Well, I no. Serial killers are quite varied, so they all have different motivations.

45:53Oti: Of them targeted people that wouldn't be missed. Okay. Right?

46:14KT: I I don't agree with you, but okay. There's so many different types of serial killers.

46:17Oti: There's different types of serial killers, but you target people that would not be missed.

46:25KT: Maybe the ones that get away with it.

46:28Oti: Well, it's quite easy. Right? And when he was explaining about burning greenhouses, he said the police wouldn't have time for that. Yeah. Because they're focusing on more pertinent Yeah. Issues. Yeah. So if I remember there was a serial killer, I think, who targeted prostitutes, and then that led to Noah because, you know, who would report that? No one would. Someone's gone missing? Yeah. They just chuck it chuck it off under the rug, and that's fine. But what made this different is his encounter with Jong-su, who

47:12Oti: feels like the way he left things with Hae-mi, the last thing he said to Hae-mi is, don't take your clothes off around men. That makes only people who do that A whores. A whores. That was wrong. And that was so wrong.

47:28KT: Because because like you said, while we were watching the movie, he wasn't complaining about her whorishness when they fucked. Right? Yeah. That's so wrong. And you should never, like, talk about anyone else's sexuality, especially if you've been betwixt their bedchambers. It's just wrong and foul and disgusting. And any sort of feeling that I have that he was such a good guy and he was waiting for his day in the sun, it all dissipated from there. Yeah. Because what kind of disgusting like, I get that he was jealous,

48:02KT: and he wanted her breaststices just to be for his viewing, but that's not how this world works, sir.

48:10Oti: True.

48:11KT: And it's interesting because you talk about how Hae-mi was enamored by Ben. I really didn't see it that way. I kind of just saw Hae-mi as someone that just had casual encounters with Ben and also Jong-su. I really didn't see it as her being head over heels, kitten love.

48:34Oti: She wasn't in love, but she was tied down to Ben. Ben had money. Ben had status. She was there looking for the greater meaning of life. Who better to be with at that moment of you finding yourself than someone who has money to make clauffa a bit easier? But if if you reference

48:53KT: and we we didn't have enough time. So I'm not sure if her ideology is actually spawned off an original philosophy. But when she talks about the great hunger, that kind of goes against that because it's not so much about materialism. It's about your intrinsic philosophies as a person, your great hunger to desire to know more about

49:15KT: not well, definitely know more about the world, but it's more focusing on how that reflects as you as a person.

49:15Oti: Yep. I I agree with that. Yep.

49:15KT: And I I do wanna touch on this just to make sure we don't run out of time. Hae-mi did go to Kenya. Oh. And there was a phone call scene. I I hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. I feel I feel you burning,

49:43KT: if you pardon the pun. So let's talk about it. So she she manages to go through a call with Jong-su, and she's in Jomo Kenyatta International Airport Yeah. Which we have a lot of experience with. And she makes a comment about how there was a bombing there. And Jong-su's like, oh my god. Are you okay? Will you be okay? Because she was stuck there for three days. And she makes an offhand comment saying, no. It's okay. I think this happens all the time.

50:09Oti: First of all, it does not happen all the time. You know? Incidents happen around the world, and we don't condemn them from being, you know, oh, I'm not gonna go to America because there was a shooting. Mhmm. It happens all the time. It doesn't happen all the time. Kenya, Nairobi is a safe safe place, and it's enjoyable. It's beautiful, and there's so much to do. And I hate this portrayal of African nations in cinema where the only time we're brought up is when there's a negative connotation to it.

50:43Oti: Oh, someone has been kidnapped. They're in Kenya. They're in Somali. You know? We go so much farther beyond the headline news. There's so much to Africa as a continent Yep. Than the headlines. Mhmm. The headlines is what will make you pay attention, and that's what the media does. This is going off on a tangent, and it's not right. But No. It's just dropped me the wrong way. There's so much to Africa. There's so much to Kenya. There's so much to whatever nation than the headlines.

51:11KT: I I do agree I do agree with what you're saying,

51:20KT: but I feel like her dancing of the great hunger was more offensive than talking about the bombing. But I think that's like, going back to Steven Yeun, obviously, for his Ben character, I I can't even put myself in the mind of a psycho because I am quite sane. As as we all know, as evidence will show on the record. No. But there's okay. I'm going to get on a personal tangent. If we're running out of time, Oti, give me that Oscar sort of symbol. But it just really bothers me when people go on,

52:01KT: you know, these of these soul finding trips around the world, and they come back, and they won't shut the fuck up about it. Right? So, you know, time to time, we will give you some tasty morsels of our life. I think Office Space was the biggest tangent we ever had. But, you know, at some point in my life, I decided to go to Africa, i.e. Kenya. Right?

52:27KT: But I'm not that person that's going to sit and talk your ear off about how I'm a better person and how I helped Kenya be a better country just by my presence there. And that's what really bothered me. So when Steven Yeun was picking Hae-mi and also the later character of the lady going to China,

52:46KT: and she was talking about, you know, how China was just throwing money, and she was talking about how cultured she was and how things are so different. Like, that just bothers me. Like, go around, travel the world, tell me your stories, but don't be so pretentious about it. That really bothers me. Mexico. Mexico.

53:08Oti: That's a Family Guy reference.

53:11KT: Well, For Your Reference, by the way. But, yeah, I agree with that. Like I think it's fine. Just don't be that person that posts a picture with kids and be like, oh, you know, I'm a new person,

53:28KT: and I help build a cool look where I am. I know when you zoom into the background, the people that are in background are, like, looking at you like, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah. And we don't have enough time, and this is probably not the right format to talk about it. But slum tourism is something that really pisses me

53:28Oti: Needs die a slow a quick death.

53:28KT: Pisses me the fuck off. If you actually wanna help people living in slums or in rural villages,

53:54KT: give them money or give the you know, give local NGOs money. Don't go there to gratify yourself and think you'll I'm not I'm not even gonna get into it. But slave tourism, we're not for that. Not slave tourism. Slum tourism, we're not for that. Well, even slave tourism, if that exists. Just be a decent person. You know? Learn about cultures in an appropriate manner. Right? Yeah. Help people because you wanna help people and not because you expect anything in return.

54:26Oti: Alright.

54:27KT: I agree with that. Just don't be shit people. Don't be shit people. Yeah. So going back to the movie, we are shit people.

54:37Oti: You said at the start of this that you had some pain points with the movie. Uh-huh. Do you wanna go through that now?

54:45KT: Yeah. I think we've pretty much touched upon it. So there was a relationship with with his father, which I feel like was important. It's not necessarily integral because even, you know, the the father's demise was pride, and Jong-su's character was lackluster. He lived life in gray, really. So I I don't think that was integral. It was important to know. Mhmm. But even then, we didn't need the multiple scenes regarding the father. I think him farewelling the calf on the truck was more poignant than the multiple scenes that we had about the father. Right?

55:26KT: It I guess, it it would have been nice to flesh out the story more because for the first one and a half, two hours, nothing really happens. Like I said, it simmers, really. And then in the last forty minutes, it's all a rush. Right? Out of, like, out of nowhere, we've we finally realized that we need to tie in loose ends, and the mom comes out of nowhere. And then she disappears. So she just serves a plot device, and then she disappears. Right? That

56:00KT: the phone ringing constantly through the film, I felt like that was integral to the plot. We only came to find out that that was the mother. Yeah. Yeah. But even when the voice went, I was like, oh, it's Hae-mi. It's a supernatural. It rings at night. And, like, so many things like, it was so haphazardly put together that I'm just like, it actually didn't need to be that way because for a whole hour and a half, two hours, we were doing nothing. Right? We

56:31KT: were sitting there waiting with our welcome banners, and nothing was coming. So I don't know. Pacing was really bad. The shots were beautiful. I really appreciated the expansiveness of the wide shots. And the I think, the the best way to describe the directing and the cinematography of this film is it was real. And I I know that doesn't give as much it it it doesn't give as much encapsulation as I would like it to. But, you know, a lot of a lot of movies that you watch are so built up in sensationalism,

57:16KT: and they're so built up in gratuitousness. Right? It was nice to see a grounded, as much as it could, and a real take on directing and cinematography. Right? Yeah. They had the expansiveness, but it served the purpose of the story, and it made sense. And I really appreciated that. I just I'm just not I I'm not for builder movies. Right? Don't just tell me it's there and I need to pick it up myself without, you know, establishing what the rules of engagement are.

57:52Oti: Right?

57:54KT: Yeah. And you've got so many different themes that you're introducing to this. You've got his daddy issues. You got his mommy issues. And where the fuck was the sister?

58:02Oti: They don't show her, but she has a fucking enough time. They had enough time for two and our house. Don't have any sort of relationship with each other.

58:12KT: But that's my point. So you you talk about, like, his family sort of dynamics that he has. Right? And we also talk about Ben's character and his, obviously, sexual, but his killer escapades that he has as well. We talk about Hae-mi and how she's not really living a fulfilled life No. As you can see. She's kind of living that drone life. Yeah. And then she goes off and has this Eat Pray Love sort of adventure, and then she comes back. Right? It was a man. Yeah.

58:46KT: Can

58:49KT: you imagine having an entanglement with someone, picking them off at the airport, and she just rolls up casually with another guy?

58:57Oti: I would be furious. I I don't even know. I would walk out. I would walk out. I would roundhouse kick both of them and leave. I would just walk out. I'll be like, no. I'm not doing this. I'm out. Or just like, light a match, throw it behind you, and walk off with special effects. Like, there's there's nothing for you there, sir.

59:15KT: But there's, like, there's so there's so much elements that you talk about here. And there there was a review that we came across, and we will link it if we can find it, where they were talking about how this is also a movie about Korean youth and the vices that they have in order to make it through unemployment or just the day to day sort of struggles that you might have. Right? Yeah.

59:45KT: If that movie was about this, then I would like to know the time marks for that because I I really I really didn't see that. I felt like this story like I said, with Guava Island, that was only fifty minutes. This was two and a half hours, and I'm still here feeling lonely and empty inside, wanting to know what happens. The last I don't know if this is the last scene, but closing the movie, we have Jong-su's character and also Ben. And they're having this little sort of chase. And eventually,

60:23KT: Jong-su comes across Ben. And dickish move. Right? Not dickish. Dick fool move. Ben approaches Jong-su and said, oh, you were coming with Hae-mi. Where is she? And then Jong-su gets a stabby stabs and starts going at him. First of all, hola or hello would be nice. But that scene was quite I wouldn't even say it's uncomfortable. I think the best way to phrase it would be cumbersome and sloppy. It was very sloppy.

61:00Oti: Was very real. Like, that's how I'd picture a killing would be. Not something flashy like a Kill Bill. Like, it would be cumbersome. It will be chaotic. It would be I think the word that we used to describe it at the time was clumsy. Clumsy. Yes. Like, it would be that because

61:21KT: because he's not a killer. Yeah. Yeah.

61:23Oti: So he he stabs Ben several multiple times Yeah. And puts him back in the car, tries to oh, and there was a truck coming. Those those are truck passing by. Yeah. I'm just wondering, would the person not realized the amount of blood that was on the snow? Like, if you see red on the bloody snow, it's quite obvious what's going on. Right? Anyway, he manages to cover it up and purchase the car and then gets back to his van butt naked, drives off.

62:00KT: I did I did say that he should take his boxers off because there'll definitely be DNA on there. So it was good that he took them off and then he burnt the car. But I I don't know. I feel like even though it was his first kill and it was clumsy, there are examples where you can have a kill or a fight that looks realistic but also stylistically made it, you know, aesthetically pleasing to the eye. John Wick is a good example of that.

62:25Oti: Which he is not John Wick.

62:25KT: Which no. Hang on. Like, which we will cover before John Wick three comes out. Right? But in John Wick, stylistically, you do have moments where stabbings happen, and then, like, Keanu Reeves, John Wick's character, obviously, like, tries to push the people off, and that takes a few frames to happen. Right? So there are ways that you can convey that without it just being a home video of, like, this week stabbing.

63:03KT: But, yeah, I just I don't know. I just felt like it was very clumsy. But, again, that's not a make or break for me. Watching the movie, I was like, You know? Like, if this becomes one of those movies where nothing makes sense until the end, that's not enough for me. Right? You need to please me throughout the movie. You know? You can't just give me a good jab, if you're pardon the pun, at the end, and then I'm all happy days reaching, like, nirvana. Right? Doesn't work that way. But

63:34KT: I don't know. It was a bit lackluster. Now that I think about it, there aren't any there aren't as many semblances of burning than there is of wanking. This fella. Think about direct symbolism for burning, and think about him actually wanking off. Then you should just rename the movie.

63:57Oti: Yeah. There are quite several quite a few scenes of him wanking off.

64:00KT: Well, it's realistic. You know? When when the urge comes

64:05Oti: Well, it's yeah. Yeah. He just had sex with the Hae-mi, and he goes to look after the cat. In her apartment, he jerks off every day or every time he goes there. And, you know, it's normal. He jerks off the pic off of Hae-mi's picture.

64:23KT: Uh-huh.

64:25Oti: I didn't see any problem with that.

64:25KT: That's what was saying. You should call this movie wanking and not Burning.

64:25Oti: Yeah. But it just also shows you that he was so he was he must have been so excited for Hae-mi, Hae-mi to come back that it was like, oh, tonight's gonna be great that to go there and see and see Ben. Oh, that would have killed him. Yeah.

64:48KT: So let's capture off because we joked about it, but let's actually talk about let's do a a rough count of symbolism or direct correlations to burning because that was the ethos and the foundation of this movie. The burning life of youth.

65:10Oti: Mhmm. Yep. There is the obvious one, the burning of the greenhouses.

65:15KT: Well, when he was a kid Yep. He had to burn his mother's clothes as well. Mhmm. Yep.

65:22Oti: There's the final scene where there's actual burning of Ben and the car. Yep.

65:22KT: Do you think we can also attribute, like, a burning desire

65:31KT: to kill, like, Ben?

65:33Oti: Yeah. He has every he has to do it every two months. Yeah. That's a great pick.

65:41KT: What do you think he did as a job? Because there was a reference that he was like The Gatsby where he's living such a luxurious life, and no one knows where he gets his money from.

65:41Oti: Yeah. I'm not sure I understood that. Maybe he was just born into money because we are not told anything that has to do with

65:54KT: Oh,

65:59KT: also, sorry, my friend, When he had the dinner party again and they brought the other girl around, the one that just came from China, do you think the friends either knew or had an inkling about Ben's secret life?

66:17Oti: I think they just thought he was a playboy. Like, every two months, they'd have a new girl.

66:21KT: It could be. Yeah.

66:21Oti: Tell they'll he'll parade her and tell them her exotic stories of Uh-huh. Where they've been. This new girl was in China. The other one was went to Africa. So, you know, I think that's just his thing. He's a playboy. He's rich. He can do whatever he wants. Yeah. That that was explaining it. Really think, oh, hey. Wait a minute. This guy's a serial killer. No. He wouldn't.

66:23KT: How about when they were looking for Boil,

66:48KT: the cat? Yeah. I was we were screaming for him to say Boil. But it was so annoying. Extent we thought he wouldn't even say it. But it was so annoying because they spent so much time on it, but we already knew. Like, you've you've given us two hours to think. That's literally all we have. We just we just beat our time, and we'll just that happened in that last forty minutes, you'd already thought of. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And There was nothing new that came to the fold that we're like, ah.

67:14Oti: Yeah. It was just like, yep. We thought of this. We've had our time to simmer, and we thought of every possible permutation that would come.

67:24KT: Any final thoughts?

67:27Oti: Final thoughts is that this movie

67:27KT: Something positive, maybe?

67:27Oti: This movie is is tells a good story. Mhmm. Tells a story I about don't agree, but okay. Well, tells a story about three young people, how they're living their lives, how they're struggling with life, and every from a different class aspect. Ben in his upper echelon of of richness in in his high class society Mhmm. And with Hae-mi and Jong-su struggling on the pretty much on the other end of the spectrum.

68:03Oti: So you could see, you could feel, you could relate to some of the characters. I could definitely relate to Jong-su in some aspects of of his life in regards to struggling There's with no pun there. Yeah. Him struggling with his art. Like, he's trying to write a novel. He's still not sure what that novel would be. Uh-huh. He's just finished uni or whatever. He's he he he's just a blank canvas at the moment. Mhmm. And whatever that is, it's quite relatable to a lot of us who still trying to figure out what our

68:43Oti: great hunger is. Fair enough. Yeah. So that's those are quite good aspects of the movie, quite relatable. The storytelling, the acting is great. We have Ben, who's a lovable character. Well Mhmm. He comes off lovable. Jong-su is ultra lovable. Like, he he just wanna cuddle him. Mhmm. Hae-mi is alright, like, for what she is in the plot. It's fine. But, yeah, it has a good storytelling mode like. But it's not a great movie.

69:19Oti: It's watchable. Not rewatchable, though. I I I started saying that I would probably rewatch it, and I'm starting to feel like probably I wouldn't. But

69:29KT: you know? Is that Captain Hindsight over there? Or

69:33Oti: So tell me tell me what did you like about this?

69:33KT: Cinematography,

69:37KT: directing, acting, all of the secondary sort of elements that make a movie, thought were on par and exemplary. They were great. The core narrative just wasn't there. It just disintegrated before my eyes. I guess I'll just like to leave it open to critics or amateur critics of the like. If you've watched this movie well, hopefully, you have because we've pretty much spoiled everything about it, if you're still listening. But if you've watched this movie and you have a completely different point of view, albeit this is,

70:19KT: you know, a movie of our time and of our decade, and it will you know, if aliens were to come on this Earth and you could only show them one movie, this would be it Mhmm. For humanity. If you feel so strongly about this movie, please reach out to us because I would love to have a discourse about this. Because, obviously, all of the research we were doing was one-sided, and, you know, people weren't responding to us. We're just reading it, consuming it.

70:45KT: But I'd really like to get another point of view of people that, you know, absolutely love this in every way and actually articulate what mechanically in the story conveyed x y zed of why you love it. Yeah. So let's let's leave it there. You know, a lot of feels, happy feels, lackluster feels. Yeah. But there you go. Watchable movie, as you said. Let's carry on to For Your Reference, which is the name of our podcast

71:24KT: where we recommend movies or TV shows that if you like this or if you didn't like this, you should also try as well. So what's your For Your Reference for this week? Oh, look at you being a gentleman. Usually, you start. Okay. So I'll start and you can finish.

71:43Oti: The way god intended.

71:45KT: Oh my. I will recommend two Mhmm. This week. I talked a lot about American Psycho with Christian Bale, so I would recommend that. It it does dabble in gratuity in regards to the violence, and there's a lot of salaciousness in that as well. But, again, it's from the point of view of the psycho. So, obviously, you're going to get that. I do feel like that is a great film. You should just watch just because, but it did give me some semblances while I was watching Burning. The second

72:18KT: that I would recommend is a Korean film, a horror film. And it it does come up a lot on popular must watch movies as well called I Saw the Devil.

72:31Oti: Yeah. That's a really good reference. Thank you. And my reference this week would be Nairobi Half Life. Nice. Keeping in keeping it to the theme of class Mhmm. And the disparity between the high end of the spectrum with the lower end. It just simple it just shows clearly how the lower end struggles with life in general. Yep. And it it does it so beautifully in in such a short amount of time that it goes it won some accolades, and that Uh-huh. Says a lot about how the director used

73:09Oti: the movie or how he directed it into portraying life, most African countries, and particular in this case, it's Kenya. So it'll be a really good film for anyone who's into or foreign films or who just wants to expand the the the repertoire Yeah. Of viewership.

73:28KT: Yeah. Is it in Swahili?

73:32Oti: No. It's Half half? Oh, half half. Yeah. So Half life. Yeah. And those all the subtitles anyway, so go with that.

73:42KT: Nice. So that rounds up another week of For Your Reference. If you miss us already, feel free to listen to our other episodes as well. Let's plug our socials. So on Twitter, Instagram, we're @ForYourRefPod.

73:58Oti: And on our email, it's hello@fyrpodcast.com.

74:04KT: Between Oti and myself and our executive producer, Doug, it's literally just us. So if you want to be so kind and support us in leaving a review or a rating on our iTunes, we'd really appreciate that as well. Thank you, and have a great week. See you. Bye.