Black Mirror – Passive OnBrooker

Full transcript of Black Mirror – Passive OnBrooker.

0:00KT: Oh. Hey. Welcome to another week For Your Reference. We're starting off with Your Phrase or Mine, and Oti has got the phrase this week.

0:10Oti: Alright. So this is a Zulu proverb, and it goes, a nice fig is often full of worms.

0:20KT: Does that mean that hot people have shit personalities?

0:27Oti: I'm sure it sounds way more whimsical than that. Don't judge things by how they look on the outside.

0:37KT: But okay. Yeah. So essentially, hot people have shit personalities.

0:43Oti: No. It's the opposite of that. I I don't Well, not the opposite of that, but you shouldn't judge anyone by the how they look.

0:53KT: Yeah. But what if Okay, guys. I I don't think we're going to come to a resolution. If you think I'm correct, which obviously I am, and if you don't think I'm correct, you need to seek help like Oti. Let us know because I I definitely won that. Alright. Hey, friends and lovers. Welcome to another episode of For Your Reference. We are covering quite I wouldn't even say cult following. It's quite widely accepted that this is the one of the greatest shows of this sort of ilk. True. Right? Yeah.

1:56KT: So stay away from your screens unless you're at work because we are diving into the anthology series Black Mirror. Sorry. That's X-Files. So Charlie Brooker oh. Oh, I thought that was an original composition.

2:15Oti: Sorry to disappoint.

2:16KT: Oh, I was going to sell that to Charlie Brooker. You see what you did now? Well, let's let's do what we're good at then. Hopefully, what we're good at. By the way, you have your host, KT.

2:16Oti: And Oti.

2:16KT: It is a mess. We are spiraling. Come and save us. So creator of the show, Charlie Brooker, and also his co showrunner, Annabel Jones. Super amazing. Great series. The whole crux of the show is every episode is different. The cast is different. It it essentially functions, as Annabel likes to say, as mini films.

2:59KT: And I think that's a fair enough thing to say. Actually, she actually calls them films, not mini films. Sorry, Annabel, if you're listening. But, wow, what a series. We will talk about first impressions. Usually, this is this is the section where we go through the stats and go through the cast. But because it is an anthology, we're not really gonna get anywhere. And, really, you don't need to hear us say it. You can probably just do a quick Google search on your Black Mirror and figure out who's in the series.

3:30KT: So we're gonna do something quite a bit fun today, have a bit more structure than we usually do. You know, we'll we'll talk about first impressions, which is what we always do. We've each chosen our favorite episode in the Black Mirror series, and we'll also cap off the most recent season, season five.

3:52Oti: Possibly the worst of the bunch. But

3:52KT: Yes.

3:56KT: And if that's all you hear, that's all you need to know. We're done. Did I copyright something else as well?

4:04Oti: Yep.

4:05KT: Oh, well. No no one listens to us, so we're fine. So Black Mirror first aired out of Channel four, which is in England, in December 2011, where it stayed for quite some time as, you know, English, British sort of shows do. You know, you you have it, and in two years, you'll have, like, another season as well. Yep. And I guess in in true Black Mirror fashion, it's it's become more rapidly frequent in the episodes that we're getting as soon as it hit Netflix.

4:42Oti: Yeah. I think they're averaging a season every year now.

4:44KT: Yeah. Which, you know, it's a double edged sword, the success of this show. And I definitely want us to dissect that and unpack that as well. But yes. So Channel four and then moving on to Netflix. But let's let's cap off our first impressions. Oti introduced Black Mirror into the For Your Reference household. So can you go go for any other good thing in your life?

5:09KT: Being you. Right? Or is a show more is it is it worth more?

5:17Oti: It sure is. Oh my.

5:19KT: I saved you just then. Oh. So it came out in 2011. Did you did you watch it at the time that it came out? Did it take you some time?

5:30Oti: Yes. I think I watched it a few months after it came out. Well, I was looking for anthological series out there, and there are far and few in between. And when I've stumbled on Black Mirror and watching the first episode, it just got me.

5:46KT: Oh, yeah. And we'll we definitely need to talk about I think it's called National Anthem, the first episode. We'll definitely need to talk about that. But, yes, continue.

5:46Oti: Yeah. Because it was so outlandish.

5:56Oti: And what they were doing in the episode, it just captured I'm like, how how can they top this? And that they did. Like,

6:06KT: National Anthem.

6:07Oti: Isn't really considered one of the best episodes, but it's one that really got me to start watching Black Mirror. It's a great it's a great way to dip your toe into the Black Mirror sphere.

6:18KT: And just to preface this, I'm not sure if you knew, but Charlie Brooker, you know, lots of lots of people that are obsessed, and Black Mirror is such an easy show to get obsessed over. You know, people are trying to string together theories of all of these episodes existing in one world. Right? And I was listening to an interview with Charlie Brooker, and he was saying that if he had to, you know, define it, he would say that Black Mirror is a multiverse.

6:51Oti: It's a multiverse fifteen seconds into the future.

6:55KT: Fifteen ten minutes. Ten minutes? Ten minutes away. I think it's about ten minutes. But, you know, it's all semantics. But, essentially, I say this to say Black Mirror is situated in the spoiler multiverse. Like I mentioned, we we are going to cover all of the series that exists today. Before we even get to season five, I guess if you just wanna keep us some company along the way, we'll let you know when we're about to talk about season five. But, yeah, we're gonna talk about spoilers.

7:26Oti: What are your first impressions on Black Mirror?

7:30KT: I was satiated from the onset. So just to give you, you know, a coloring and a peppering, if you will, in the types of shows that I enjoy, 30 Rock, Arrested Development, even more recently, Atlanta, Insecure. And, you know, even though they are kind of lighter comedy sort of shows, they're still able to interweave social commentary or, you know, contemporary issues in a way that isn't jarring and in a way that you know, it it might not necessarily be something that sits with you

8:09KT: quite nicely, and it might be something that creates a conflict within yourself. Right? So being introduced to Black Mirror, outstanding, exemplary. And the first episode, it's it's one of the best ways to introduce a series because, yes, it is about technology, but, you know, the crux of it is to save Princess Susannah, the prime minister is demanded to fuck a pig.

8:38Oti: Yeah. On live on air.

8:41KT: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, if you've listened to any of our episodes, you know that we're going to hell anyway because we're vulgar as fuck. But, wow, I just

8:52Oti: If the criteria to go to hell is being vulgar, no one would be going to heaven.

8:59KT: Yeah. No one is. Robot Jesus is just chilling up there by himself.

9:06Oti: Probably.

9:07KT: But I think that's an episode for another day. We're we're not gonna tackle theological sort of debates right now. But, yes, the the premise of it was and at 2011, I watched it a few years after, but even at that time, shows of this ilk weren't necessarily out at this time. It it's it's all kind of a dime a dozen now Inside No. 9, which is definitely something we're going to reference later on.

9:37Oti: Yeah. One of the best one of the best shows out there at the moment.

9:42KT: And an example of a terrible one is Room 104.

9:48Oti: Room 104 isn't bad. It just has a lot of hit and misses.

9:52KT: And when did you stop? Did you pick it up after we stopped watching it? We're amongst friends. Let's not lie. And then you also have Love, Death & Robots. Like, the anthology technological sort of tangent is rife out there because people have that appetite for these sorts of shows. So I think it is well worth mentioning that at the time that Black Mirror came out, it it was cutting edge, if you'll pardon the pun. But it it really was on the cusp of a new sort of genre.

10:29KT: And what I really appreciate about Black Mirror is it really kind of carved out its own little niche or niche for our American friends.

10:39Oti: No one says that. Yeah.

10:42KT: They do. We've established this. But, yes, Black Mirror really carved out its own little niche because, you know, ever increasing and being super meta, you know, you don't need to put your pants on and go to the movies. Sorry. If you're going to the movies, put your pants on. Or what what I'm saying is you don't need to go out to the cinema to experience wholly realized substantial narratives. You don't need to do that anymore. And you also don't need to sit through 24. We have 24

11:21KT: episodes, and it just it's just slow. And we're not we're not talking about 24. I I Shots fired. Shots fired. But we don't have time, so I'm just gonna sit in there. Really?

11:35Oti: Is is this the This is a deal breaker right now. Okay. Lucky Carlos London, Jack Bauer on 24. That's one of the best shows there is.

11:35KT: Well, I haven't been struck down by God yet, so I think I'm fine.

11:35Oti: Just '27. Oh, very lousy day. That's all.

11:52KT: Yeah. That lasts forever. So let's just let's just leave that. But my point is, you know, you have cinema, you have film, and you also have, you know, your standard sort of TV shows that come out. And Black Mirror very nicely sits in its own lane. You it it's possible to be able to have, you know, enthralling, all immersive stories that, you know, follow the principles of pacing, that have amazing cinematography, that have stellar acting, right, within a cute forty five or even in some cases,

12:37KT: forty five minutes or even in some cases, an hour.

12:37Oti: I think it goes north of the sixty minute wall.

12:44KT: Well, in any case, my my point is it kind of carved out a new sort of genre. And, you know, who would have thought that years ago, San Junipero, it it won a couple of Emmys as well. And and that's the first, you know, sort of instance that you've had as opposed to the traditional sort of TV format where they come season after season and build that sort of character development. It is possible in some cases to be able to build that in a smaller, more succinct, more pointed sort of approach. Yeah. So, yeah,

13:25KT: Black Mirror was most welcome in my life, and I was so satiated by it. Just generally, because we won't be able to talk about all the episodes, I do feel personally that the quality of Black Mirror did decline. The not not just because it it it moved on to Netflix, but also the the quantity at which they were pumping out episodes were a lot. And, obviously, if you need to, you know, if you need to release more episodes, the quality will be lacking. That's basic sort of logic. Right? And as a creator,

14:04KT: the magic that you have in order to immerse us in a world is finite. You know? There's a reason why your favorite singers have an album, go out, cheat on their lovers with other lovers, have some sort of, like, substance abuse, and you need to live your life to be able to create more is my point. Because no one wants to listen to someone that has no dramas or no pain in their life. It's it's just not gonna resonate. Right?

14:37KT: So in regards to Black Mirror, I I do feel like the quality kind of dipped. But interestingly enough, the episode that you chose that we'll talk about later is from season four. Yeah. So that's quite interesting as well. So we will talk about our specific episodes. But aside from that in season five, are there any episodes you wanna talk about before we dive in?

15:01Oti: Not really. Like, they were really solid episodes before the move to Netflix, and I think White Christmas is one of the best.

15:09KT: Because you get a juicy slice of Jon Hamm.

15:13Oti: You and Jon Hamm.

15:15KT: Me, the world, and Jon Hamm. There's a Black Mirror episode for you right there.

15:22Oti: But, yeah, White Christmas is quite great in its entirety, and I think that's I think it was a second season, and it just It was kinda like a special, but yeah. Yeah. If if it was I think it was the one of the longer ones, and it just really, really captured the imagination. And the acting was perfect.

15:47KT: It was great. It was outstanding. And the because, essentially, they were living in two different sort of worlds. So to be able to respectfully capture that and to be able to bring us along on that journey, outstanding.

16:03Oti: Yeah. And I feel like that's 10 out of 10. Probably that's the episode that made Netflix think, we need to bring this over here.

16:12KT: Well, interestingly enough, Jon Hamm was introduced to Black Mirror, and he's like, I need to meet with Charlie Brooker, and he did. And that's how he ended up in the White Christmas episode. Nice. Because everyone loves Jon Hamm. Everyone. And those that aren't are shunned out from our Black Mirror universe. I do wanna talk about Bandersnatch. Do you is there are there any other episodes or any other sort of observations you wanna give? Because hot doggy, we have got some hot takes on Bandersnatch.

16:48Oti: Well, I just not not really, but I wouldn't really consider Bandersnatch as a Black Mirror per se.

16:48KT: We're gonna talk about Bandersnatch. But is there are there any other episodes that you wanna talk about? I do want to give a special shout out to my best friend, my ever eternal Daniel Kaluuya. He's amazing. And his episode, which is the second episode of the series, amazing. Super great concept. And even though I didn't choose that episode as my favorite, it was more to do with the concept and the resonating factor. But I definitely appreciated his episode.

17:28Oti: Great. That's all. I I sort of thought that you'd mention it. So

17:33KT: Well, I did, and I feel great. And there are no regrets in my life. Fifteen Million Merits. The Entire History of You is quite interesting, and we did reference it, I think, in last week's episode where the they become static noise, essentially. That's quite an interesting episode as well. You've got I I think it's also good to mention that the cast that they that they're able to bring into the series is perfect because it's not distracting. And we'll definitely talk about Smithereens because that is the the casting really just shines there.

18:11KT: But, yeah, I just I just wanted to give a shout out to Daniel Kaluuya's episode. I also just wanna give a general note to some of the other episodes that I felt kind of felt flat a bit. The Waldo effect, I didn't really care for. The Waldo Moment. It was the one where they had the puppet running for blue. Yeah. Yeah. And, apparently, Charlie Brooker was running out of ideas, and he was strapped for time, and he just had to record it. And it shows. Like, I I really didn't see the point of that.

18:44KT: But, yeah, I we've got so much to talk about, so I'm not gonna spend too much time talking about the episodes that I didn't really care for. But, yeah, it for all of its triumphs is one of it. Yeah. Yeah. For all of its triumphs, there were some that were lackluster. And I do just wanna mention this before we go into Bandersnatch is, yes, the quality has declined in Black Mirror, but I don't necessarily feel like that is wholly the factor

19:14KT: of the impact of the episodes. And what I mean by that is, you know, we've we've listed off shows that aren't exactly the same, but they have a similar sort of flavoring. So it might just be it's becoming more saturated, this essential essentially, this sort of genre. Right? And, you know, these shows are starting to rise to the occasion of Black Mirror, and in some cases, they do it better. Mhmm. Right? Before Black Mirror, we never watched The Twilight Zone. We did recently watch Nightmare at 20,000 Feet before watching

19:53KT: Jordan Peele's Nightmare at 30,000 Feet. But it it just goes to show that there's there's quality everywhere regardless. And if it's timeless, it will stand the test of time. Hence, timeless. Right? I think that's a basic concept. Wordsmith of the village, but I I'm not sure where the words went just now. But outstanding, amazing, super love, super great, but it doesn't take away from the triumphs of Black Mirror. I I do feel like it's kind of softened in a way, but I'm not sure if that's because, you know, you essentially run out of ideas

20:34KT: or if there are just too many shows that are competing at this time. But in any case, let's continue. Let's talk about Bandersnatch. So you said it it doesn't essentially follow the Black Mirror sort of formula.

20:48Oti: Yeah. Because Black Mirror brings you scenarios real life scenarios through the prism of technology or how technology affects us Yes. In that. So where technology is actually a tool, but with Bandersnatch, it's pretty much technology being the it. Us having to make the decisions takes away everything that was Black Mirror. There's so many it's it's a gimmicky thing to me that didn't work. We've played a lot of these games. We love Telltale. I mean, you know, it's amazing, you know, when you're playing it. It's in Harry. Yeah.

21:33Oti: And Detroit. Yeah. And Detroit. You know? But overlaying that into Black Mirror and us having to choose scenarios, and we I've had people spending three hours trying to get all scenarios and getting to know the whole storyline, but who has that time?

21:53KT: Well, I I don't necessarily agree with you because I do feel like the concept of pick a path or, you know, choose your own adventure was quite interesting, and it it won't be the last of it, definitely. But I I actually liked it. I actually liked the idea of it.

22:12Oti: If you guys But it it became cumbersome.

22:15KT: It became cumbersome. It became cumbersome, though. But to to open your mouth for this tasty morsel. Right? Part of our frustration with Bandersnatch is we kept fucking up. Right? Not really fucking Hang on. On. Hang on. Hang Hang on. Apparently, Charlie and Annabel said there's no happy ending in Bandersnatch. And, you know, most of the time, I would be nodding my head being like, oh, touche, sir, but I wanted to throw my computer out the window. Because what the fuck, man? What? What?

22:51Oti: But I think they focus too much on the paths than the storyline because the storyline isn't even that great.

22:51KT: I think it was, though.

22:51Oti: No. It wasn't. Okay. Well, I guess great what great about it?

23:03KT: The fact that this kid, right Mhmm. He's going through all of this shit. He goes through all of these scenarios. He invents this game. Mhmm. And somewhere along the line, he starts to realize he is in a game. It's quite interesting. It it kind of became cumbersome because we were going through the endings because what happened was we got quite far. Right? We got to the point where we went to the one with the freckles. We went to his apartment,

23:35KT: and we had to choose whether he jumps off or we jump off. Right? And do you remember what you told me to friend? To get him to jump off because, obviously, he's not gonna do it. Then he plummeted and died, and the next scene was, like, a news a news headline of him dying. And we're like, what the fuck? So we went back. We're like, oh, let's just pretend that didn't happen. Let's go back. He jumps. He dies. And I don't think we even realized at that moment that there really wasn't any reprieve.

24:05KT: Nothing good was going to come out of Bandersnatch. And I don't feel like you should fault that on that basis. But, you know, live your best life. Do what you wanna do. I don't think that's where Bandersnatch fell short.

24:19Oti: Oh, I thought it was quite compared to the other stronger episodes

24:23KT: Oh, yeah. I I I wouldn't I I wouldn't wanna do as much as one of the weakest. I wouldn't wanna go through that again, but I I feel like it's in its tonality and in its relevance, it did quite well. In in our hang on a second. Even recently, with Game of Thrones, with all the babies crying about the petition saying, I didn't want the story to be this way. Go and play fucking Bandersnatch then. You can kill all the people you want. You know what I mean? Like

24:54KT: but an interesting thing was Charlie Brooker was talking about, you know, after it had been out for a while, Netflix kinda sat him down, and they went through, you know, the stats of the episode. And, you know, there there's a scenario whether I think it was the dad or the stepdad. It's a dad. Right? About so he dies. Right? We we kill him, and we either need to chop up the body or we need to bury the body. Mhmm. And, apparently, it was split in the middle. Really? Yeah.

25:24KT: And Charlie Brooker was really, like, freaked out because he wasn't expecting it to be so high. I think it was forty eight percent will chop up the body, but that's still a high percentage. We said we would chop the body, though. Yep. And then we had to loop back around and say, oh, sorry. That was too much. We'll bury it. But it's because it's like we're we're blurring the lines between you know, we talked about movies and TV shows, but we're also blurring the lines between passive consumption and, you know, active gameplay.

25:54KT: Mhmm. Right? So I think it's thematically, it is quite interesting. So I wouldn't take that away from Bandersnatch. Having said that, if you're going to have a Bandersnatch party, don't invite me. I do not want to come. Decline forever. Right? There are no other pick a path for that. Just another little tidbit about Charlie Brooker. He actually started off in his early career doing game development. Oh. So this was a nice little homage to himself as well, which was super interesting.

26:27KT: But I think I think Bandersnatch has had enough time. And I think while we were playing it as well, we also said this would have made a much better episode. Like, just give us a proper episode the way that we know and love, and let's be on our merry way.

26:41Oti: Yeah. Because I've seen I've seen people compiling the episode without the choices and watching it in in its entirety and the different versions, the story just didn't seem that great and that strong compared to the other Black Mirror episodes. That's why I said take away the gimmick of making a choice and it's just not that great.

27:06KT: Yeah. How rare for us to disagree. We should call this For Your Agreeance.

27:13Oti: Yeah. So I think we about that section where we have to talk about our own personal favorite episodes in Black Mirror.

27:13KT: Producing me right now?

27:13Oti: Yeah.

27:24KT: Where's the casting couch?

27:27Oti: Oh, wow. This is turning into a different sort of podcast.

27:32KT: Right. If you're interested no. I'm kidding. I did say last week there is a filter before I say things. Right? There isn't. No. That that got a that got a green light from my filter. So let's go through yours. Mine is a bit more sad, so we'll go through your episode first. And it's from season four, episode four called Hang the DJ, starring Georgina Campbell and Joe Cole. Essentially, the main characters that we have for this episode are Frank and Amy.

28:11KT: Again, another spoiler alert if you need another one. If you haven't watched this episode, then probably skip ahead. But they live in a world where their romantic entanglements are essentially determined by the algorithm, which is very interesting. Oti and I have been together since Deadwood times, so we haven't really well, I hope you haven't experienced dating apps.

28:40Oti: Yep.

28:41KT: Well, there are Oti babies, so the the dating apps come first, I guess. Yeah. So we haven't really experienced unless through vicariously through our friends, we haven't really experienced, you know, the the angst and the anticipation in some cases and, you know, the melancholy as well in the dating app sort of lifestyle. So this episode was quite interesting. But because it's your favorite episode, I'll let you go through it.

29:10Oti: So Hang the DJ has to be one of the best episodes of Black Mirror to date.

29:19KT: Settle down, buddy. I haven't even gone yet. So

29:24Oti: like you said, it has these two characters, Frank and Amy, who are an who at the end of the episode are revealed to have a 99 98 99.8% match. Yeah. Something really high. Something really high. Something in the north of nineties. And it's well, we're introduced to them having gotten each other or the system as they recalled it, matching them, but they've been given quite a short time until their date has to end. Mhmm. And once that happens, they go to other partners, but you could see they really

30:00Oti: think that they're meant to be together. There's this chemistry. There's this fire between them. Uh-huh. And the episode really focuses on the theme of love and what I think love should be. Like, love should be rebellious. Stick it to the man. You know? It's

30:17KT: But in the famous words of Tina Turner, what's love got to do with?

30:20Oti: Oh, Tina Turner wouldn't survive in the system.

30:20KT: Wow.

30:25KT: Tina Turner will exist through all the ages. Wow. Don't come for our queens.

30:25Oti: Well, I'm just saying.

30:38Oti: So it's some sort of totalitarian society.

30:43KT: You are so wrong. You know you're wrong for that. If you weren't going to hell before, you definitely are now.

30:49Oti: But yeah. So they focus on this, and we get to see how they engage with the system. And not everyone is happy to agree or to accept what the system tells them to. You know? So after a certain period of time, if their relationship is to end, time accounts down, and everyone's happy to separate ways regardless of how well you're getting along with each other or how badly. So even with we've seen them paired up. We've seen Amy and Frank paired up with them. Oh, with Athelstan from Vikings.

31:24KT: Listen to our Vikings episode, guys, if you like

31:27Oti: Where, like, Athelstan was a really great lover physically. You know? He satisfied Amy, but there was still Amy was still yearning for more. Well, like, what she had with Frank.

31:41KT: Well, you want a multi dimensional sort of attachment. Right?

31:42Oti: True.

31:44KT: Attachment attachment is a very Black Mirror word, isn't it? Like, you wanna have an all encompassing relationship. It it isn't just wholly physical.

31:54Oti: Yeah. And I think, you know, there's spoilers in this. So at the end of the episode, they come to find out that it's all a simulation. Amy finally convinces Frank to try and escape and run away together because they want to be together. And they start climbing this ladder, and as they go up, the whole environment starts fading away. Yeah. And you could see by the end of it, Amy and Frank are in a bar. And though this was all just a simulation, this was

32:29Oti: one of the thousand simulations that are running. And in most of those simulations, they had chosen love and to rebel. So it was kind of good to see that, you know, the people Love triumphs. Love triumphs. Yeah. But I also got sad because the people we've been rooting for through the whole thing were just simulations. You know? Yeah. But the real Franken

32:53KT: game what show we were watching? It's Black Mirror, dude.

32:53Oti: Yeah. It's Black Mirror.

32:58Oti: It's Black Mirror. And I think it there are a lot of themes that go along with what San Junipero was as well. One is the decision of love and choosing who you want to be with Uh-huh. And technology enabling that. In this scenario, it was a system, and then that was the virtual whatever. Yeah. But it's just interesting. It's really, really strong. And I recommend if you've not watched Black Mirror, if you're skipping episodes or you're not a complete watcher of a a show, this is definitely one to watch. Nice.

33:34KT: Is that your recap? Because I think you're missing something. Woah. You didn't mention the fact that Frank betrayed their relationship by checking the time without Amy.

33:34Oti: It doesn't really matter. They still ended up together.

33:34KT: That was fucked. That was some fucked up shit. If you I I get that this is all that you know and you're bound by the system. However, if you do feel so strongly for someone, why would you test the waters if only you had ten more minutes with that person? Would knowing that help? And even him checking made the time

34:13KT: reduce. Right? So it was all for naught, really.

34:20Oti: Not all for naught. It just shows that it's human nature to want to know. Right?

34:25KT: Well, thank god we're not in Black Mirror because I feel like you would be that motherfucker that checks.

34:25Oti: I would check because what's the point?

34:25KT: So even after watching the show and see what happens, you would still check.

34:38Oti: If we're meant to be together, we'll end up together. And I think that's what Black Mirror was trying to pass along. You know? God gets the system. Fight for love regardless of what you think love is. If you are meant to be together, regardless of what society tries to dictate, whatever, you know, As long as you know what you're feeling inside and you want to go with that Yeah. That's all you need.

35:06KT: That's all you need. That's pretty much you and me against the world or them against the world. Yeah. You and me against the world for ten more minutes because you keep checking the bloody gadget.

35:06Oti: I would check.

35:06KT: I wouldn't fall test it. Like, even even if the love that you have with someone isn't going to last, why don't you just immerse yourself in the moment and just enjoy what's there?

35:06Oti: Not everyone wants to live in the moment.

35:32Oti: People are planners out there. I want to know. If I'm gonna get you breaky tomorrow, I'm gonna make breaky, and I don't get a chance to do that because our time is up.

35:41KT: Oh, I thought that explains why there's a lock on the door and you won't let me out.

35:46Oti: And that too.

35:48KT: Well, watch out for our Netflix documentary. Oh, man. I I think we're about to start our own series Oh, yeah. That no one will wanna buy. Or we can call it Refflix, like reference flicks. Get over it, guys. Watch a streaming service. Get over it. Now you're getting into soldier boy territory. What? Soldier? See what you did? Oh, yeah.

36:20Oti: So how was your epi?

36:22KT: Just casually. Just casually. Let's move on. Right? My episode is from season two, episode one, Be Right Back. Starring Hayley Atwell and sorry. I can't pronounce your name. Domhnall Gleeson. Did you know that Domhnall Gleeson is also Caleb, the main character in Ex Machina? Really? Right?

36:48Oti: Oh, he has a time, doesn't he?

36:52KT: But wow. His his acting is amazing. And I I hazard to find and I I I won't spend my time trying to find people that fell short in performance, but Gleeson really shined in this. Obviously, he wasn't the main Hayley was, but this episode is all encapsulating. Charlie Brooker has also mentioned that this is one of his favorite episodes, and he feels like it didn't get enough love. Oh, really? Yeah. So and before I actually go into the concept of the episode, interestingly enough, the way that he came up with

37:32KT: well, not really the way that he came up with it, but he wrote this around the time that he had his first child, his son. Oh. So that's how it gets so tender and it's so resonating, this story. But, wow, Be Right Back is a beautiful, poignant, personal story about grief and being able to or not being able to let someone go. Deeply resonating and so very heartbreaking in the most intrinsic of ways. So what we have are two characters that are essentially

38:14KT: it starts off that they're moving. Right? So you've got Martha, and you've also got Ash. They've been together for ten years. And for some reason, even after that time, Martha didn't know that Ash was a fan of the Bee Gees because they open up with If I Can't Have You Mhmm. Which essentially sets the tone, a very sad tone to the episode.

38:36Oti: If I can't have you.

38:40KT: Oh, I was gonna continue singing, but I'm not sure how copyright works. So She doesn't wanna fuck that, I don't think. Anyway. You say until we get an email from Refflix. And then you later on have in the episode where the Bee Gees does play and Ash's replica doesn't compute with that. So let me let me just give a brief little backstory to Be Right Back. Suddenly, Ash dies from a car accident.

39:13KT: You can, you know, later on analyze that perhaps he was on his phone too much, and that might have been the cause. But in any case, Martha suddenly loses Ash. And, eventually, she finds out that she's pregnant, and that's important because that adds more to the human element of this story. Right? But one day, in amongst all the emails about, you know, funeral packages and books on grief, she gets an email based on AI from the tone of Ash. Right? And it starts off very innocently.

39:51KT: Right? At first, she's reluctant as any of us would be. Right? And that's the great thing about Black Mirror because it is on the cusp of what's around the corner. Yep. It's not something that's wholly unrelatable. It's something that's in in as as outrageous as it might be, it's it is kind of believable. Mhmm. So she gets this email, and she starts communicating with AI sort of Ash. And as the story progresses, we start to see her become more and more obsessed

40:28KT: with it. You know, just just typing isn't enough. She needs to hear his voice. So she surrenders all of the photos, all of the videos to feed that AI. So she can actually hear Ash. Not not only just hear his voice, because you can do that through videos, but be able to respond in a dynamic sort of way. It's sad. Yeah. It is very sad. And and, you know, as the episode continues, she's able to I'm just gonna call him an android.

40:59KT: She she's able to get an android, but it looks really creepy. Like, it looks like Voldemort under the subway station. Like, it looks fucking gross. Yeah. That's a nine and three quarters reference, guys. You're welcome. And I'm not talking about Harry's wand. Oh, fuck off. If you thought I was just gonna be serious that we weren't gonna talk about dicks, welcome. This is what we do. But yes. And then she she literally waters and feeds it like a plant or like a bear bear, and she brings this Ash AI

41:40KT: to life. Mhmm. Part of the interesting thing is when Charlie Brooker was talking about this in an interview, he was saying that when he created the when when they created Ash AI, they didn't want him to be able to replicate and empathize with Martha's character. Because what what they wanted to exemplify is you've got technology, and it can, in some ways, emulate, you know, his his quirks or his personality. But in every semblance of the episode, Ash AI made it quite clear that he was mechanically doing this. And that really

42:24KT: I'm running out of words. It it it was so beautiful and so heartbreaking at the same time. So let me let me let me wrap up the the episode, and then we can actually talk about it. You know, it gets to a point where, you know, I think it's like a freckle above his nipple or, you know, it it's just that little snap in her that makes her realize this isn't my Ash. You know? It's it's it's an amazing replica. It's an amazing copy, but he will never be my Ash. Right?

42:56KT: And then you have the scene when they're on the cliff. And the scene you guys, just just go and watch it. I I can't do it justice. But it's it's so poignant, and it's so harrowing the way that Ash AI and Martha, you know, talking to each other And the way that he's eventually, he starts pleading. He's like, please don't do this. Please don't do this. And it turns out that, you know, we see the house. It's been renovated.

43:29KT: I think it's, like, ten years in the future. Essentially, it's enough for the daughter to grow up, and she's, like, prepubescent. Right? And we see that she actually couldn't get rid of Ash AI, and she just kept him in an attic. And once a year, she'll let the daughter see him. That's that's not a great way to to to live.

43:49Oti: No. It's not.

43:51KT: And so so in a nutshell, that's the episode. We've already said spoilers, so welcome. You should definitely watch it. If we've spoiled it for you, you should definitely watch it Because it is it is such a perfect case study of grief. And how dangerous it can be, as much as it hurts, you need to let go.

44:18Oti: Agreed. Like, you know what? I really just I couldn't understand. Well, I can understand the reason you'd want to cling on, but this just went beyond the line of where creepy resides.

44:37KT: But it's it's it's resonating because it is deeply human, and it's not as if it's, you know, buying some sex doll. It's actually normal people. And what normal people, if they don't attend to their grief, it's reasonable that this would happen. Yeah. And that's what makes it even more sad.

45:02Oti: Yeah. Yeah. It it is it is sad. It was I did say mine was a sad episode. That's why you went first. It was a really deep episode. And I think most of us don't really want to think about scenarios like that. You know, people have lost loved ones before, and it's hard and harrowing and trying to think or trying to put your place to put your place in where Martha is. Yeah. As just I don't know. I don't know if I would do the same things as she would. Of course, I'd want

45:38Oti: my loved one to be back and to interact, but then again, it's not really them. Yeah. Because memories and AI can only take you so far.

45:51KT: But even through the episode, like, her loved ones were trying to reach out to her, but she started to isolate herself even more to exist in this world with Ash AI. Jeepers, man. But that but but that's why I chose, and I am correct, in this being the best episode of Black Mirror because, you know, you can talk about how Black Mirror is super key. And, you know, you talk about technology and how you can download memories and, you know, all that fun sort of stuff. But the reason why I really, really love

46:30KT: Be Right Back is because, yes, you have that component about technology and maybe down the line what might be possible, but it also has a human story at its core.

46:44Oti: And and the funny thing is I think this is one of the one of the Black Mirror episodes where the technology doesn't really seem that too far in the future. Like Yeah. The advances in making AI at the moment is really crazy, and I could picture this happening. Yeah. Totally.

47:04KT: But let's let's let's leave that to the side. Not in the attic because we need to we need to grieve things properly. Oh, wow. For for for of the lackluster sort of episodes, I just think back to Be Right Back. Feel free to let us know what you guys or what episode of Black Mirror is your favorite or if you wanna talk more about

47:34KT: anything that we've expanded on. And just look after yourselves, I guess. I I am feeling a bit sentimental because we are talking about Be Right Back. So, you know, if if you guys ever need to talk to anyone in a digital sense, you can talk to us. But self care is very important. If you're going through grief as well, self care is still important as well.

47:53Oti: Yeah. And I I think the fact that the world is moving where therapy isn't viewed as some sort of, you know, weakness.

47:53KT: Yes, queen. Yes.

47:53Oti: There's a lot of services out there now offering these things online as well. Yeah. That stigma accessible. And the stigma surely is there and true, but there's nothing wrong with therapy. No one should feel ashamed to reach out. So go for it. Thanks, sir. So we should talk about beautiful. Would you talk about the recent season?

48:31KT: Wow. You are really producing this bitch today. And by this bitch, I mean me.

48:36Oti: Yes. I am.

48:39KT: I don't know. This this is this is way too complex to get through now, but I do have a complex where if you tell me to do something, I automatically reject it. Even if, like, if I'm about to take if I'm about to take the rubbish out or garbage, because I know Americans listen,

48:57KT: if I'm about to take the rubbish out and you say, hey. By the way, can you take the rubbish? I automatically just throw that garbage on the floor. So should we end should we end the episode now? No. I think it's like I think it's my little way of fighting the patriarchy. Like, don't tell me what to do. Even if I was literally about to do it, don't tell me what to do. I'm a strong woman. I don't need you to tell me what to do. Again, I did say it's

49:25KT: it is well beyond the parameters that even Charlie Brooker can manage. My psycho because my psycho says he's not gonna be able to manage that. But, yes, let's talk about season five, Black Mirror. We've got three episodes you're welcome. We've got what are we doing? What are you doing? What is anyone ever doing? Who knows? So we've got three episodes to season five of Black Mirror that just came out a few days ago, so hopefully, you're all caught up.

50:03KT: We've said spoilers, but we are going to talk about season five, and we're going to talk about it in-depth. So come back once you've finished it. But, yes, has three episodes. The first one is Striking Vipers with Anthony Mackie. Yep. You laughing or cocky? Oh, wow. That's a bold statement. Spoilers as well. Oh, if you've not watched it, then can. Can I just say, one of the guys in my office still hasn't watched Avengers? Really? And apparently, he really likes Marvel movies, and I spoiled I spoiled something.

50:40KT: Spoiler. Spoiler. Spoiler. Turn away. I spoiled the fact that Robert Downey Jr dies.

50:46Oti: That's everywhere.

50:48KT: Right. Open up Google, and they're like, Iron Man is dead. Yeah. And it's anyway. But if you haven't watched Avengers, I don't know how true it is to the comics, but apparently, Anthony Mackie is our new go to. Yeah. But in any case, let's continue. So we got Striking Vipers, Anthony Mackie, and we've also got I'm so sorry. Our residential Oti will sound off for me. Yahya Abdul-Mateen the second, Nicole Beharie, who I believe is our Sleepy Hollow lady. Yeah. We love Nicole. Yeah. Pom Klementieff, and Ludi Lin, which are probably the fighters.

51:28KT: So we've got Striking Vipers. Actually, let's just talk about it because there are three. So we'll just talk about each one as we go. Do we need to explain what the episode is? Let's just do it in a snapshot. Right? So these two bros, these two dudes have been friends for a while, I think since college, possibly.

51:51Oti: Possibly even way back. Yeah.

51:54KT: And, you know, as you do in your spare time, they played a lot of video games. Striking Vipers is very Mortal Kombat esque, Street Fighter esque.

52:03Oti: More.

52:05KT: Settle down. Just saying. Alright. You want you wanna fight?

52:10Oti: Get over here.

52:11KT: Fatality. See? That's Mortal Kombat. See? That's Mortal Kombat. Give me some Street Fighter.

52:20Oti: Oh, what would Blanka say if he ever spoke?

52:25KT: Does does Blanka come to you in your dreams?

52:28Oti: Yeah.

52:30KT: Is it a dream? Oh my. Was it wet? What? You started it, and it's with the tone of Striking Vipers. Okay. So you have these two college guys. They play Striking Vipers. And later along in life, not really for Karl, but Anthony Mackie's character has a whole wife, and he has a whole future ahead of him. But his friend Karl comes along with the game. And as technology has advanced and has as it immerses more fully, you know, you have you you're able to experience it on a more physical sort of level. That's great.

53:19KT: How it was executed was terrible. The pacing was garbage. The the way that they try to tether the story together was terrible. But you give some positives before I drone on about this episode.

53:32Oti: I didn't hate the episode as much as you did because we have we have Danny playing Lance and Karl playing Roxette.

53:46KT: Yes.

53:46Oti: So in this virtual reality, I think Karl has always had something for Danny.

53:46KT: That's what I was gonna say, but that's not the way that it was set up in the sorry. Continue.

53:46Oti: No. It just felt like he always had something for Danny, and in the real world, in real life, he didn't know how to approach it. He didn't know how to go about it because he's moved on. He's been successful, but when he came back, you could say he's still a playboy. He's not settled, and

54:16Oti: his friendship with Danny, you could tell he always wanted more. So in using virtual reality, he did not waste time as Roxette.

54:24KT: But can I just say on Lance? When they when they first got into the sequence of them being as Lance and Roxette, Didn't I say they're about to fuck? Didn't I say that? I probably said it as a joke, but I did. I was like, to be perfectly honest, that's probably what I would do as soon as I got into the game. How far can I take this?

54:49Oti: Yeah. And one of the fascinating questions you asked was how it felt for Karl, especially being a woman Yeah. And being fucked.

55:01Oti: And they later explained it that

55:01KT: Like, does it go inside his urethra? What? How does it work? You know they have butts. Right? Yeah. But guys have butts. Charlie Brooker, please call us. We have very we have pertinent questions to the our understanding of your universe.

55:22Oti: Who would fuck someone's urethra? That would be painful to ask. It's in the front. You're ridiculous. Because it's in the front. You're ridiculous.

55:33KT: Why do you think the Internet exists? It's not for people researching about trees.

55:37Oti: Oh my god. Are you gonna go to, let's say, Pornhub and search for someone's urethra being fucked?

55:44KT: No. I'm going to ask blog, and I'm gonna look for someone's urethra being fucked. In any case, it is a very interesting concept that you have because, you know, more and more, we we're we're learning about research and prototypes about, you know, for example, like, long distance couples. How do you how do you have that sort of not not even intimacy. How do you have that, like, how do you feel a cuddle, like, you know, across the seas? And, you know, there there are developments where

56:18KT: they're trying to do that, and it won't be far off before, you know, you're fucking yourself into a fleshlight, and then the other person can feel it on the other side. It's it's not something that is too unbelievable because at its core, there are human needs. Sometimes they're romantic, and sometimes they are animalistic, But there you go. But it is it's a very interesting concept that they had for the episode. But to to add on years and years of potential love for your best friend, come on now. Like, you're

56:54KT: you're doing yourself a disservice because there's not enough time to breathe within the Striking Vipers' world to fully explore that. Right? It kind of just came off really stark of, they're gay now. Nah, man. It doesn't that's not how it works. And that's how I felt watching this episode because it wasn't fleshed out properly. And one of the other gripes that I have because I I feel like we we need to start wrapping up to talk about the other episodes. Part of the gripe that I had with Striking Vipers is nowhere in

57:25KT: Black Mirror do things just have an ending. And, you know, you're you're not you're not still wondering, oh, what if, you know, what if this continued for five more minutes? Will I get more of a resolution? Even Charlie Brooker talked about, you know, essentially, the formula that they work on is, you know, introduce the character, the character goes through shit, the end. Right? That's that's essentially all Black Mirror because it's that it's that undeniable creeping into your own consciousness of what could happen to you. Right?

58:01KT: Charlie Brooker also talks about, you know, if Black Mirror if if, you know, social media or technology is a drug, which at at times, it really does feel like a drug, what are the cause and effects? What are the consequences Yeah. Of that? Right? And it really allows you to mindfully digest the content that you're consuming through these episodes. Striking Vipers, it it really had an ending. Right? Yeah. I mean, it had a resolution.

58:30Oti: What? Why?

58:33KT: For who? And, you know, it's I guess it's one of those things as well because it's not ours. We're not Charlie Brooker. We're not Annabel Jones. But you come to expect, not even just quality, you come to ex you come to expect a voice or, you know, a flavoring once you understand or once you appreciate the styling of Black Mirror. And,

59:00KT: you know, Bandersnatch even said didn't feel very Black Mirror. And Striking Vipers, it just I don't know. It just fell short for me. What I will say about Striking Vipers, those sex scenes between Lance and Roxette, they are perfect looking people. They don't deserve they're like, I don't deserve to look at them because they look too good, but those sex scenes were quite great. Definitely don't watch it on the bus, guys.

59:23KT: You can listen to our podcast on the bus if you like. You might get just as aroused, though, so watch out.

59:23Oti: Yeah. One of my gripes with it was that if for Danny, it wasn't really about being gay. It was more how sex was different. But why couldn't he just go have sex with other people? No. Like, why didn't he not do it with Nicole, with Theo? Yes. The wife. Actually, we said that a lot. Why don't we just give her a headset? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because Theo wants intimate and physical contact.

59:51KT: But she I think she just want her passion. Yeah. But Annie's already spent. Literally.

59:59Oti: Anyway, let's move on to the second episode, Smithereens.

60:04KT: Smithereens. Outstanding. Again, didn't feel like a Black Mirror episode. But if you if you remove the expectations that you have for Black Mirror and we'll explain why we don't feel like it's a Black Mirror episode. But if you remove that, as a general sort of narrative, Amazing. Great episode. So in Smithereens, we have Andrew Scott, who's our Moriarty. Mhmm. In Sherlock. He I I love seeing him in that, so I'm glad that we got to see him again in this episode. We've also got Damson Idris, who is one to watch.

60:44KT: We definitely didn't need to do an episode of Snowfall, but, wow, he's definitely an up and coming actor. And I say that with trepidation because you tricked me last time when I was listing my up and coming actors, which Daniel Kaluuya, and he's also in Black Mirror. And then you've also got Topher Grace, which I I haven't really watched much of his work, I didn't really care that he was in the episode, but people seem to be buzzing over him. So, essentially, the reason why I don't really feel like

61:16KT: this is a I think the reason why we appreciate Black Mirror is because it's such a unique voice. Smithereens is kind of drowned in a lot of content that's out there today about, you know, the overconsumption and the obsession with social media. So that's probably why it didn't feel like a Black Mirror episode. But as its own, as a standalone sort of narrative, I was all for it.

61:40Oti: That wasn't a big part of technology as we know with Black Mirror. Nothing futuristic. It was all pretty much in this current environment. Like, whatever was capable in that episode, we can do now. Yeah. So in that aspect, it wasn't really a Black Mirror episode, but the story and how it was written and how it was performed. Yep. Idris, he is amazing. The emotion he showed. Him being scared for his life, him being an intern. You know, you could you could picture yourself in that scenario.

62:16KT: You've just started as an intern in the firm. You're trying to impress. That was really funny. There were some very funny moments. There were some very funny moments in this episode as well. You wear a suit. And He's actually transporting an exec's clothes, not his own. Yeah. Yeah. Like Jaden is his name. And then Chris is the Moriarty.

62:36Oti: Yeah. And you can just feel his emotion and And it was his first day or first week? His week. Yeah. His first week. And it's really, really, really beautifully told.

62:53KT: And there there are quite a lot of funny funny sort of moments in this episode. And even for the poignant moments within this episode, if you had actors that were not as capable as Mark Scott and Damson Idris, this episode will have fallen apart real quick.

63:17Oti: True. Because it's essentially just told in a car and interaction between Chris and Jaden. Yeah. And it's a partnership that works. Yeah. The back and forth, the the the emotional tension, it's just outstanding.

63:34KT: Just and and the way that you saw Jaden empathizing with Chris without even knowing that his wife died, he just knew that this this guy is going through some shit right now. So we already know Andrew Scott can act his ass off in Sherlock. Yes. And what a nice ass I'm sure he has.

63:55Oti: Good for you. So he's he's explaining why he's doing what he's doing and why he's kidnapped Jaden. And you could see Jaden just empathize.

64:05KT: Yeah.

64:06Oti: Good kid. At the end of it, Jaden at the end of it, Chris is telling Jaden he can go. Leave. Yeah. But at that point, Jaden doesn't want Chris to kill himself. He wants to help him. Wants to help. And I think that ending did you have a problem with the ending?

64:25KT: I I had problems with the overarching concept of the episode, so it's not to say that the ending is what undid me.

64:33Oti: Well, I didn't have a problem with it because, essentially, they make it seem as if both Jaden and Chris die. Yeah. And that's when all and that you can see everyone in the community is getting alerts and updates on what's happening. Uh-huh. How about those two kids that kept hanging around the police the crime scene, hanging around the police? Which is weird because you'd think that the first thing police would do is try and get people out of the area, but they're essentially

65:04Oti: the ones that give grace away. Like, guy is fake. They make an advance.

65:09KT: Whether it's symbolic or literal, I think it's just to say that there'll always be, like, a social presence. Like, there'll always be voyeurs, if you like to call them. You know? There are people that stand in front of burning buildings of terrible tragedies and take photos True. Who are the worst kind of people. Work on being less shit people just in general. But you know what I mean? Like, there there will always be voyeurs in world events, and I think that's what these guys represented.

65:42Oti: Yeah. Maybe you're right.

65:44KT: And and then you have the whole WikiLeaks, which we don't have time to get into today. But, you know, people get involved in shit that they shouldn't get involved in, and it's quite true to form. And then you have Topher Grace's character, who's the head, and he's very like Jack Dorsey, isn't he? Mhmm. Like, the CEO Yeah. Of Twitter. And how even even he doesn't have hold of, you know, decisions or you know, it's essentially gone beyond his initial vision.

66:17KT: And it's all about profit margins. Oh, yeah. Just profit margins right now. Just trying to get you more addicted to the screen. And it it's interesting, but at the same time, it's conversations that we're having now. It's not futuristic.

66:32Oti: What I had an issue of is well, as much as Chris took responsibility of killing the wife, he blamed, let's call it Twitter, for his accident because he looked at his phone for one second and he got into an accident.

66:52KT: Yeah. That's what I'm saying. I had qualms with the episode. But as a as a simple story, with the acting from Mark Scott and Damson Idris, amazing. Amazing. And and these these two, particularly, are the sort of actors that you see you know, if if they get paid a dollar, they are going to give you a thousand dollars worth of acting.

67:17Oti: Yeah. The passion the passion is so real in this. But it it's so effortlessly done,

67:23KT: and we are taken on this journey with them. And it was made quite clear because there were so many layers to Mark's character. Chris. But there were so many layers, and you it was amazing. As a as just something to watch, it was amazing. Whether it follows the Black Mirror sort of ilk, I wouldn't really say so. Yeah. Agreed. So let's wrap up. We've got Rachel, Jack and Ashley Too. Obviously, Miley Cyrus is in it. We've also got Angourie Rice, Madison Davenport, and Susan Pourfar.

68:04KT: Who are you groaning for?

68:04Oti: I'm groaning on the episode.

68:08KT: Oh, I was gonna say, Miley's fine. She's married to an Aussie, so she's fine.

68:13Oti: I have no qualms with Miley. I have qualms with the fact that they pretty much just made Hannah Montana a Hannah Montana episode. This was not a Black Mirror episode. This was fucking Hannah Montana, and that's all I'm gonna say about this shit. Maybe you give us your opinions.

68:35KT: Again, we do talk about the dwindling quality. What do I do? What do you what do you want me to do? I'm not the president of the Miley Cyrus fan club. Oh, yeah. No. But if you take it for its concept, it is quite interesting. The fact that you have a pop star that releases a toy that kids, most susceptibly, will buy. And this toy isn't you know, it it isn't you know, when we were growing up where you just have, like, five phrases that it just copies

69:12KT: and says in a loop over and over, it's actual AI based on her personality. It's very interesting. It's a very interesting concept that you have for an episode, and you start to see how that becomes troublesome and how her whole celebrita becomes an issue and how she needs to continue to have this image. So from a technological sort of standpoint, I thought it was quite interesting. And just as a life of a pop star, I thought that was also quite interesting as well, whether you wanna creatively move into something else or not.

69:50KT: I think it just fell a bit short because, you know, like you said, it's it it wasn't really executed as well. But you know what? We're old. We're jaded. Maybe people with a bit more spring in their step can enjoy it,

70:06Oti: But it it it was okay. And I I think I think the casting was perfect. I think Miley playing Ashley was right. Yeah. But then again, the story just felt short. It felt really teeny bopper. It felt really like a teen movie. I swear to me, it felt like a teen movie. And I think I've watched these not not at my current age, growing up.

70:34KT: But Okay. I I don't know why you had to explicitly

70:37Oti: Because you looked at me weirdly. That very clear.

70:40KT: What do you mean? It's it's my look of love.

70:44Oti: Oh, you better fix that look of love. Anyway, it just felt like a teen movie. It just I got distracted a lot of the times watching this. It didn't really copy me. Didn't captivate me. The fact that you have Ashley having a doll version of her with AI, it just felt normal. Like, we've I think in the '9 in the late nineties, we had, like, a puppy the fast electronic puppy being

71:14KT: Yeah. But not I had one of those and not to that level. Or maybe my parents couldn't afford the legit ones, and I had I had the counterfeits. I don't know.

71:28Oti: It just it it didn't feel that revolutionary or that different. It just didn't I didn't get in I didn't get this episode. I didn't

71:36KT: But I I did think it was quite interesting. And I I guess it's one of those things we've talked about before with your frame of reference, if you'll pardon the reference, because you can pick and interpret however you want. And as lackluster as this episode was, what I took from the story is grief is fucking hard. Right? That poor little girl

72:02KT: has to try and deal with her mother passing away. The same as the other sister, but she's younger. Right? So she's trying to deal with it in the best way that she can. And even when she was, like, playing and doing makeovers and doing dances, and her older sister is like, you know, you're embarrassing yourself. I'm like, leave her alone. Like, she's trying to deal with it in the best way she can. You could see the whole family is dealing with grief differently. The father's

72:30Oti: embedded himself terrible. In in his pet project. The sister's just trying to listen to or trying to play and listen to what Yeah. The mother loved. So everyone's dealing with grief differently in this. And that was kind of touching.

72:48KT: But I think Miley did quite well in her role. Yeah. She did. And And she probably honed in on, like, her own experiences as well. Yeah. For sure. And you could tell. So

72:59Oti: I think that's all for me or that's all you can get from me on this.

73:03KT: Cool. We did it. We talked about Black Mirror. Mhmm. And because it's on Netflix, I'm sure we'll be here next year. I don't know when it will end. I I I guess we will know when we know. Hey? Yeah.

73:20Oti: Well, so

73:22KT: Let's let's dive into For Your Reference.

73:26Oti: I would go with Inside No. 9. It's another anthological series. Nice. It's a comedy, crime, horror, whatever your flavor is. They have different episodes with different themes. It's amazing.

73:42KT: It has And I think it took us a few episodes to realize that there are two guys that appear in all of the episodes because it's done quite well. It's done quite well. And you could tell the relationship between the two is great.

73:53Oti: The chemistry, it's amazing. And you would love this Inside No. 9 if you love anthological series. Even if you don't, it's just good. So get on it and watch it.

74:06KT: I've got two. So the first one I have is the we're we are all about Britain today because I'm going to suggest Humans with our lovely reigning queen, Gemma Chan. So definitely check out Humans. They talk about androids as well, and it is quite an interesting poignant take on what it would be like to have androids, even though the dad of that family is shit. And the second show that I will reference is if you enjoyed Damson Idris' acting in Smithereens, you should definitely check him out as Franklin in Snowfall.

74:54Oti: Great.

74:56KT: Yes. That's all we need to talk about, really, guys. Thank you so much for listening. We really appreciate it. Hopefully, you guys enjoyed this episode. If you watch other stuff, perhaps we have an episode on that, so feel free to check it out. Subscribe to us if you wanna be up to date on when we upload. On Twitter and Instagram, we're @ForYourRefPod. We're also on Facebook.

75:22Oti: And you can write us on hello@fyrpodcast.com.

75:26KT: And if you like, please leave us a rating and review on iTunes, guys, and we'll see you next week. See you. Hallelujah.