KT: It's another week in the foyer reference household, and it is another
bonus perhaps resurrected nugget in the foyer reference household.
Oti: Mm-hmm.
KT: We're doing a ref max, friends and lovers.
If you needy love sponges.
Need some more biblical episodes?
We have covered the Prince of Egypt as well as Pat of the Christ.
Oti: Yeah.
Looking forward to the second one.
KT: Yeah.
Pius pilot.
We have a great handful, um, of screenings and screeners that we'll be
covering today and also over the next couple of weeks, take the show away.
Hey, friends and lovers.
Welcome back to another edition of Ref Max, where we cover invited
previous screenings and access to early screeners from your most beloved Katie
Oti: and OTI
KT: On the docket today, friends and lovers, we have quite a
lovely mix of Easter eggs.
Uh, we have air, the air, but never to show the face of the air.
The popes exorcist, hallelujah, and we're rounding it off.
With Lilly Allen's Dreamland.
Oti: Woohoo,
KT: Woohoohoo, thank you to, um, our PR contacts, um, that have given us access to
previous screeners as well as screenings.
Everything we're covering today has been released.
Um, I'll probably give a reminder at the end of this episode, but what you
can look forward to is, uh, Thomas and Mackenzie's show totally, completely.
Oti: Mm-hmm.
KT: Tony Collette.
Um, maybe we needed to space out because I went to back to back screenings
of Australians playing Italians.
Yes, I'm talking about Tony Collette in Mafia Mama.
And then we got exclusive access.
We already watch it.
We got exclusive access to season four of a Black Lady Guest Show.
Black Lady Guest Show.
Yeah.
And we've already watched it, so we're very excited to get closer to the date
so we can share friends and lovers.
We also have Evil Dead Rise, which may even be a full episode.
Ote,
Oti: Ah, think it might be.
KT: Will open up the book of Clarence ot.
Oti: I'll do one better.
I'll bring the book of Eli.
Oh, right.
KT: Um, we also have Betty Gilpin, Mrs.
Davis.
We have Elizabeth Olson's Love and Death, and obviously
risking it all for the Clemens
Oti: Mm.
KT: and Scars Guard and Mia Goff's, um, infinity Pool.
So we have a lot on coming up, friends and lovers.
And this week we've got a great bundle to tackle.
Oti: Nice.
KT: Well, let's get into the first, uh, screening.
Thank you to our friends and lovers at Warner Brothers, as well
as Universal for inviting us to
Oti: air.
Yeah,
KT: yeah.
That Air OT ridden, it was a full event.
It was a full event, and you would know that if you were court signed.
Directed by Ben Affleck, and I guess if we have time, we can talk about the Argo
of it all, or I guess his filmography perhaps not a reference Dega Station.
Perhaps just an express lunch menu.
Mm-hmm.
Written by Alex Convoy in way of cast, cast, cast, or all the stars are out.
Ot.
Matt Damon, Ben Affleck.
Jason Bateman.
Marlon Wayins, Chris.
Scene.
That's the end of my review.
Uh, Chris Tucker, as well as Viola Davis and whoever the fuck played
the back of Michael Jordan's head,
Oti: Yo are bothered by the,
KT: that.
Who at least I got to see Jesus in passion of the Christ, but who?
Who?
Who welcome, welcome, friends and lovers.
Yes, we are starting off with a legendary film, um, that's already
impressing a lot of box office and a lot of, uh, sneaker and basketball head.
Can you call them basketball heads?
Oti: You can.
I won't stop you.
KT: I don't do a sports friends and lovers, uh, kick us off.
Ot.
Oti: Wow.
What can I say about this movie?
I did not think you, I'd enjoy it as much as I did.
To be honest, um, and I know that you felt a bit weird at the end of it.
KT: This isn't about me, but Okay.
Oti: now.
I've just had to correlate the feelings.
It had little laugh out loud moments in the movie, which usually in a
cinema, because usually when you're watching a movie, there are moments
in the movie where people will just laugh out of the random shit and it'll.
KT: they'll annoy me.
Yeah.
Oti: This actually had some stuff and I was like, oh, I'd giggle along as well.
Okay.
Which is good.
KT: Nice.
So all in all, you had a great experience
Oti: going in.
I thought it'll be a movie about, there will be some aspects of
sports, you know, some semblance of watching Jordan do his thing.
KT: This is all business.
Oti: It's all business.
KT: It's all business in the front, business in the
Oti: But I've never been so excited about sports branding and marketing.
KT: Okay.
It's
Oti: of those things in Sports Biopics where you're like, okay, bro, they
transla set it to a different level where they made sports marketing
and branding something you're intrigued and interested about.
Okay.
And they executed it well.
KT: Interesting, interesting.
Um, you know, covering real life events, especially triumphant events where we're
not necessarily sure of the events leading up to, but we know the hashtag spoiler
alert that Jordan gets signed and he becomes synonymous with the Nike brand.
Right.
We know what we're working towards.
So this film felt like sliding into a victory that was already won and
offering nothing new or insightful.
Oti: Wow.
KT: It reminded me of House of Gucci and you know, you've spoiled
yourself if you've watched it, so I'm not going to spoil you.
But essentially nothing happens in House of Gucci the same way.
Nothing really happens in air.
We know that, um, Michael Jordan is going to get.
You know, and we know that there's obviously a, a whole shift of culture
and can I just say for the Jordan brand or the Air Jordan brand to be
so embedded in not just black culture, but global sports athleisure where af
athlete, like athlete wear culture.
It's kind of embarrassing to have three dorky white guys be the pioneers of that.
But anyway, did someone say,
Oti: Elvis?
Oh bro.
KT: Austin Butler sinking his back.
Um,
Oti: not understand?
It wasn't about,
KT: Hey, hey, hey, don't, don't attack my intelligence.
Its
Oti: who stepped the foot into the air.
Wouldn't be air without Jordan stepping his foot in
KT: it.
Oh, okay.
Oh, all
Oti: it could've been made by, it could've been made by anyone,
but the fact that it was Jordan's brand, that's all the matters.
Koberg.
Mm-hmm.
KT: Filmer.
Mm-hmm.
Cool.
Sneaker film.
Um, it was exhausting for me because obviously there was nothing in this film
that was for me and really anything can be for me if we're working on really building
out the characters in the resonance and there was so much like, don't worry
about whether Michael Jordan's in it.
And it's like you don't watch like Batman versus Superman and
not expect to see Superman there unless he fucks off to the Witcher.
You know what I mean?
And I think this is what happens when people get too close to the
making of a film or a documentary.
Obviously there's the inclusion of Michael Jordan and you know,
maybe even the team around them.
We haven't watched a lot of interviews about air, but we were
watching one of Chris Tucker and he said it in a very beautiful way.
But if you read between the.
Oti: lines,
KT: When Ben Affleck and the team consulted Michael Jordan,
he said he needed two things.
He needed Viola Davis to play his mums not bubbling over Michael
Oti: Mm-hmm.
KT: Um, and then he also needed Howard White to be in the film.
It was very important for him to be in the film.
Mm-hmm.
Notably one of the only black characters in the film, but I don't even know if
we need to talk about that specifically.
But the point is, and I would imagine this would be very late in the
development, because Chris Tucker talked about the fact that there
wasn't any dialogue for this character.
I would be hard pressed to believe that they were in early stages of development
to have Howard White based on that feedback and not have any dialogue.
Right?
So if it happened late in the piece, and then Chris Tucker again, it's.
It's a beautiful thing and Chris Tucker obviously is talking about
delivering how he spent time researching Howard White, his friends,
so they chopped it up together.
But if you read between the lines, the writer's room was not, or chose
not to be prepared to make space for a character or a person or a
figure like Howard White, what does that say to the credibility of this?
Because the highest commission on this film was nostalgia and it was sickening.
Oti: I hear you.
It was surprising when I heard him say that because in the movie
he played such a pivotal role.
At least I thought he did.
KT: Oh, absolutely.
He was
Oti: was
KT: gap.
The same as Marlon Wayne's character as
Oti: Yeah, so it, it was wild that he wasn't included and
he had to do his own dialog.
KT: You can only, I love Jason Bateman, but you can only have so
many Jason Batemans in the film.
Like at some point, especially if we're talking about how important it
is to protect young black athletes, there needs to be black people behind
the scenes, which there were, but they were included very late in the film.
And what my point is there.
Chris Tucker wasn't playing laugh out loud Tucker.
He was playing office friendly tucker, but people were eating
it up in the cinema, which is a different story for another day.
But he brought a lot of, um, nuance to the role.
But I, I I, I, I would worry that people would just be like, haha,
he's doing a Chris Tucker thing.
Oti: You
KT: what I mean?
Um, is
Oti: the farthest, the Chris Tucker thing you could ever imagine.
KT: Yeah.
So, you know, it's moments like that.
And there was some disingenuousness around the film in general.
That's why I was saying like, sometimes they got too close, you know, and
even, you know, we, we didn't, um, we're, we're saying, we're not talking
about spoilers, but there's a general disingenuousness about, I guess the
philanthropy that Ben Affleck's character.
Being the head of Nike and, you know, all of the donations, all of the
goodwill, all of that sort of stuff.
And it's like they even made a comment or two about the factories
and about the actual sweatshops that create Nike brand, right?
Mm-hmm.
So then you can't cover it by saying he donates millions and billions
of dollars, because at the end of the day, that doesn't equal that.
The math, the, the ethical math does not equal that math.
Oti: Yeah.
I, I, I saw that aspect of it.
It, it, it felt nacho's, uh, sort of brand.
Right.
It, it did feel like it did feel that way.
Um, but I chose to focus on the fact of the journey of Michael and impact Jordan.
Hard.
Yeah.
You know, uh, in getting a deal for Michael, that was super beneficial.
KT: Yeah.
I, I guess, cause I do wanna talk a little bit more about the film cuz
there's definitely, you know, some great themes and, you know, some great
sort of sentiments to talk about.
But like, I, I guess just rounding out my first impressions about Air
and the disingenuous specifically, um, you know, it talks about how,
you know, air Jordan specifically, Sold or continues to sell billions.
You know, the, the boss of the company is donating billions.
They play Bruce Springsteen's and then you just yell, capitalism.
Yeah, that's America.
And I'm like, really?
We're not dumb babies.
We might be needy love sponges, but we're not dumb babies.
Don't try and wrap this up in an ethical bow, is what I'm saying.
Let's just take it for what?
Oti: fair enough.
KT: Um,
Oti: I,
KT: I guess you could argue I'm already taking away from the
experience, so I won't share specific sort of lines of dialogue.
Um, but there was definitely moments in the film and I, I don't know if I'm
talking about penmanship, I'm not talk sure if I'm talking about performances,
but it felt like there was some historical or, you know, some meaty sort of,
That they wanted to insert into the film, whether it felt organic or not,
you know, dialogue that they wanted to have in there that just stuck out
that they just put dialogue in there because they wanted like, so, so what?
I won't say it, but Ada being Nazis.
Leaning on the German laughs.
Just do it.
The origin story about the firing squad, um, air Jordan.
Weird seeking something become so part of the culture, having three men.
Yeah, I talked about that.
Naming Nike and the Swoosh.
Oti: I don't know.
I found those interesting.
Yeah, those, some are quite hilarious as well.
So to me it it, it played a part of sort of creating a, a general sense of
where they were at the time as well.
Okay.
And, and I think it played to that bit too.
Well, and I was like, oh, kudos man.
KT: Okay.
Well, um, cool to you Mar um, one of these moments, and we don't need to get
into full detail, but I guess this is just to drive home the specific example
or, you know, the sort of tonality that I'm talking about in the film.
We have.
George Raveling, who is played by Marlin Williams, and he talks about how he was
part of a iconic part in history, which we don't have to spoil it if you don't
want to, but that felt like, even if it's true, it felt like, oh, these producers
were salivating to put it in this film.
Oti: Well, yeah, but he himself sees it, I think, in real life, which
KT: I'm not saying it's not true.
I'm just saying the way that they chose to include it with a whole other
bunch of things were like, Ugh, really?
Oti: I think there are a lot of moving pieces in this and a lot of people who
play different roles, and I cannot say regardless of what the pro producers
are, salivating or not, I just couldn't fault anything there that felt, oh,
they just did it because of, you know, to have a raving sort of moment.
Mm-hmm.
It, it worked for me in trying to highlight their accomplishments.
I think though, especially for me when watching this, the raving and.
Howard White's characters stood out for me even more so why?
I, I have no idea.
I, I can't, there's no straight correlation to that, but I'll
try to figure it out later.
But I enjoyed those moments and I enjoyed seeing them play
a part in such a global brand.
And you know that, especially when someone like Howard White wasn't even meant to
be in the, in the movie, in the fast.
KT: place.
Yeah.
Not that he wasn't meant to be there, that he wasn't
Oti: room, he wasn't considered,
KT: where it was happening.
Oti: Yeah.
It just shows you that there's that disparity that I was still trying to
cross and I clutched onto those moments, however cheesy you might think it is.
I was living for it.
Yeah.
I like some black cheesiness.
KT: You found My web search is
Oti: it?
KT: zt.
Well, I wanna share something joyful that I experienced in the film.
Oti: Oh wow.
KT: Respectfully.
Chris Massino was the jockstrap that held this game together.
He was the best part, fucking part of this film.
I really enjoyed him.
Everyone just needed to, you know, it's Christmas's world and we just live in it.
Mm-hmm.
I've been going to therapy, but I feel like I can go to the final
form with c Messina as my therapist.
Oti: Yeah.
He was really, really good man.
KT: He was also Ango as well.
Would you believe?
Oti: Oh, he's got a thing,
KT: He's
Oti: got a, got a Ben afk.
KT: Oh.
But like did you absolutely love his character throughout?
I did.
Oti: Uh, I, I don't know if love is the right word for me.
He was definitely a.
KT: Okay.
More than Michael Jordan l I just really thought tonally, he absolutely worked.
I don't know when or if they were deciding on the other characters to
meet him on that sort of tonality.
Like he was on the big short Wolf of Wall Street and everyone else
was playing Dungeons and Dragons.
Oti: Wow.
Yeah, we're
KT: the wave of cinema nostalgia.
Oti,
Oti: Oh, are you throwing sand Man's hope to it.
KT: I'm looking forward to Sandman season two, I must say.
Oti: Oh.
KT: Um, well, I don't know how much more you wanna talk on, but there are a
couple of things I want to talk about.
Something that I thought was really interesting, and if you are as.
Sports person, then this won't be a surprise or a spoiler or if you like
shoes or if you follow the history, the sports history, you'll already know this.
Um, we don't need to talk a lot of detail, but I just wanted to
comment on, it was interesting because at the time in the N B A.
There was over, it had to be over 50% white, the shoes that they were wearing.
Mm-hmm.
So I thought that was quite interesting because it didn't make, obviously there
were like iCal type of dialogue as well, which I'm like, Ugh, whatever.
You don't have the depth to tread this water.
But anyway, um, but it was interesting how they were prepared to tackle that.
Oti: Yeah, they weren't all guns blazing on trying to all lure
Michael to Nike that they felt.
And I thought, and, and this is what I said as a sports branding and
marketing movie, this just made it so interesting because I found that really,
really exciting to watch in the movie.
KT: Show me the money.
Wouldn't you just watch Jerry McGuire
Oti: everything.
Sink to it to make him sign.
Hmm.
And there's nothing else he can do other than appreciate the effort.
KT: Okay.
Um, the last thing I wanted to talk about, um, with AIR is the lack of
presence, or maybe this was during the three days where he was waiting to load
and get resurrected, uh, Michael Jordan, but like the lack of presence that we.
Of Michael Jordan in the film.
What were your thoughts on that?
Oti: I didn't mind it because at the end of the day, it wasn't necessarily
about Michael Jordan per se.
It was everything around it.
And I found it quite interesting.
Well, it, it, it felt a bit distracting at first, but once I got onto
the boat, I was like, okay, cool.
We're not gonna see him.
I'm fine with that.
Let's focus on everything else around him.
KT: So there was a lot of suspending of belief is what you're saying?
Oti: Not suspending of belief.
As they said in the movie, and, and I think it was also out before people knew
that Michael wasn't gonna be in the movie.
That's not a spoiler.
I just didn't know how it would work.
But the way they executed it, I, it made sense to
KT: Hey, we're gonna have John Wick, but John Wick's not gonna be in it.
Oti: It's not the same thing
KT: we're gonna have Super Mario, but it's this gonna be Luigi.
Oti: if you're focusing on the on, on the tailor for John Wick's suits.
Why should John Wick be there?
He's just aware of the suit.
We are focusing more on I on on his tailor and how everything he did to
get John Wick the best possible suit.
And that's the end of the story.
We don't need to know how he jumps around with that suit, how he can
jump off buildings and all that.
KT: Okay.
I think you're just saying stuff to
Oti: me.
KT: a point.
Cool, bro.
Cool.
Film sneaker, bro.
Um, but let's move on.
Let's move on.
This was, this was a journey I ventured into.
This is some pendants and some absolution that I experienced on my own.
Oti: Did you go on the stage?
KT: I wish I went on the stage.
Um, we are very big thaw, love and thunder, um, fans, friends and lovers.
But thank you so much to our friends and lovers at Sony for giving us.
To the previous screening of the Pope's Exorcist.
Uh, let's get into general, um, sort of information, general information.
We have Director Julius Avery, in regards to writers.
We have screenplay by Michael Patone.
Evan Spills as well as rd McCreary.
Um, in way of cast, cast, cast, cast.
I always think of the sum of us friends and lovers, but we also have
international intergalactic treasure, Russell Crow, Daniel Vato, um,
Alex Esso, as well as Franco Nero.
Oti: Nice.
KT: How nice.
Biblical.
Nice.
Oti: could be.
KT: Okay, so this film, um, as the name suggests, is about an Exorcist, uh,
OT is our residential Catholic boy, so maybe he can fill in some gaps.
Um, I'm not sure.
Is an exorcist just like a separate title or do you need to still go through
the priest path to get to Exorcist?
Is that just like a spicy seasoning to being a.
Oti: No, you, you, I think exorcism can only be performed
by priests over a certain level.
KT: Yeah.
So you need to go through the same sort of pathway because
that's how it felt in the film.
Obviously I'm not going to spoil anything.
Um, this is inspired by the actual files of Father Gabriel Amorth,
the Chief Exorcist of the Vatican.
Um, I thought this was very interesting.
I knew I wasn't going to get the two pop.
Which is a film that I really, really love.
My good, um, my feel good sort of film, um, AI jacket pending.
I wasn't sure what to expect in the film.
And tonally there was a lot of dialogue that didn't match the serious conviction
that the performances brought.
Oti: Okay.
How
KT: Like imagine we're watching Passion of the Christ, like how very seriously the
film takes itself and it's telling a very serious story, but then you have dialogue.
That's from it.
Chapter two, I was literally waiting for moments where there would be, the
kids would be like, you are small.
You are small.
Oti: Don't even trigger my P T S D on that man.
KT: Um, so the film, ah, the, the film was interesting in the sense
that there were definitely some themes that I wish they had focused on more.
Even though I say that I am character and narrative driven, I think the
themes that it was raising in the.
Film was more interesting than the path that we were going down.
Um, obviously there's certain sort of possesses, um, and you know, it
kind of focuses on a little kid, I would say, like a preteen sort of kid.
Um, think scary movie level.
And I'm pretty, I haven't, I haven't dabbled.
I haven't doubled into the scary movie franchise, but I'm almost certain they've
done like an Exorcist parody, right?
Mm-hmm.
And I can almost guarantee you whatever dialogue they said in the
scary movie equivalent was also said in this film, because I'm like,
Oti: I'm
KT: like, how are you saying these things right now in a.
So grounded in, I guess, as much of a reality as you can get in the Catholic
Church El, you know what I mean?
So it was very interesting because it kind of pulled me out of the
film and, you know, not for nothing.
And I don't know, you know, our, our rados coach owning, loving, um,
Russell Crow, he's like the pavlova.
Um, you know, New Zealand will try and claim him.
We'll also try and claim him.
Um, and I love him.
I love him, love him, love him.
I obviously don't know his heritage.
He might also have, you know, Italian ancestry and, you know, he's very.
Um, he's very committed to the role that he's playing as Father Gabriel.
I am not Italian, so obviously I don't know how accurate his accent is, but
you know, the same thing with tar.
Like you can tell that he really put a lot of effort into this performance, but the
moment you put him next to Italian people and this picking Italian, it's just like
one of these things is not like the other.
And you can copy and paste that when we talk about Tony Colette.
Um, so I think, I think tonally that gives you an idea of what this film is.
It might just be fun to watch OT watch this, um, because I've watched the film so
I can just focus on your reactions to it.
But yeah, the dialogue was very, very, Sing, um, think even like the
orphan, like the, the, the OG orphan that we really, really enjoyed.
Right.
You know, some of that dialogue was a bit ridiculous, but it
worked in the way that even the performances were a bit ridiculous.
Right.
This film was very much, this is very serious.
This is very dogma.
You know, we we're channeling all of the spirits right now.
Yeah.
Some of the themes that I thought were really interesting that I wish
they had dived more into is the idea of how religion is formidable
and it's an immovable force.
That you can have a church, like the Catholic church, you know, one of
the, one of the three main sort of religions around the world and the
discussion of do they, should they and will they move with the times?
And that was a very interesting sort of theme.
And you know, obviously there's a lot of that in the tu pops,
um, dip ops, um, as well, right?
So I really.
That sort of discussion.
You know, father Gabriel, he's definitely more of the og.
Him and the Pope kind of have a discussion where they're saying, you know, these
new priests, they think they're fairy tales, but we know that they're real.
Oti: So going into this movie, people shouldn't expect to watch
an Exorcist dream Carnet because it's nothing close to that.
KT: Well, I haven't even watched The Ex is is it like a serious film?
Is it a ridiculous
Oti: It's, it's horrific.
So people shouldn't be expect to be terrified by this movie.
KT: There are moments that are really scary.
Um, but yeah, I just, I didn't expect, like Marlon Waynes getting
a producer credit for this film.
Oti: Cause
KT: of these moments were like, what the fuck is going on?
Oti: Interesting.
Yeah.
KT: so it was interesting because he also, um, he has to be held accountable
cuz during one of the exorcisms, he actually uses the word Satan,
which apparently is a big no-no.
And you're not supposed to acknowledge the devil.
How wild is that of all Christianity?
You think you'll be able to talk about Satan in the Catholic church, but even
during this setting it was too outdated.
Oti: Wow.
From Catholic.
You used to sing a lot of songs that denounce Satan by name.
Must be an Italian thing.
Must be
KT: must be a Brad Pit Italian thing.
Um, I wanna, I wanna ask you something, um, just to give us your
Rolodex of Catholic Boy knowledge.
Um, they talk about St.
Michael and, um, I'm not sure in what I, I'm assuming it's in the Vatican.
It's some obviously amazing, important, beautiful looking building.
And you have Father Gabriel.
Staring at this painting and he, he shares the sentiment.
Why do you think St.
Michael didn't kill Satan when he had a chance?
Oti: Because it was God's plan.
KT: Okay.
Oti: isn't that the answer to everything?
KT: Um, also, obviously they were going to have some comments about science.
You've gone and seen all these doctors.
Have they given you any answers?
So that was a bit of an eye roll.
I could suspend myself.
Actually, let's say this, I could suspend myself more in
this film than I couldn't air.
Oti: Oh, who new?
We just needed to add an Italian Michael Jordan in there and you'll be fine.
KT: Isn't that just Larry?
Um, so even though that sort of dialogue made me roll my eyes,
it definitely fit for the time.
Um, and I guess talking about the differences, um, as well there,
there was also some weird dialogue about like the placing the blame
of the Spanish Inquisition.
Um, and, and absolving sort of blame on that.
So that was very.
Thing.
Um, more so on the gross side, like really is this where you
want to try and rewrite history, like through a, a ridiculous film.
But anyway, um, for all of the films, um, and TV shows that we're covering today
made us in the dms, friends and lovers.
But specifically, specifically, if you have seen the Pope's
Exorcist, please meet us in the dms.
I have all the time.
Oti: Nice sounds some intriguing.
I I'll definitely give it a whirl.
KT: Please do.
Cuz I would definitely like to watch you specifically OT in front or
behind of a pee wall if you're nasty.
Mm-hmm.
All right, well let's move on.
The next film that we have, uh, is thanks to Sue and the team at TM
Publicity as well as transmission films.
We watched Hallelujah.
Oti: Oh.
KT: so this film was based on a play by Alan Bennett.
In regards to directing, we have Richard Iyer and written by Heidi Thomas.
In way of cast we have Jennifer Saunders, b Gill, Russell Tovey, David Bradley,
Derek Jacoby, as well as Judy Den.
Dame Judy Dench, if you're respectful, friends and lovers.
Um, we watched this film a couple of weeks ago.
Um, it's now available, um, in Australian cinemas.
How did you feel, ot?
Oti: It was a quaint little movie, right?
Yeah.
Um, it was exciting to watch everything transpire.
It had a really emotional ending, and I think a lot of the themes that were raised
in the movie are things that we like to speak about in this podcast as well.
KT: Mm-hmm.
Oti: And it brought a, it brought about conversations that you didn't necessarily
think it'll head towards that direction, but it's definitely one of the talking
points that came out of the movie and yourself, and you'd think to yourself
afterwards how it all snuck up on you at the end, at least toward the final act
where you'd see everything transpire.
Um, a lot of it, I.
The twist of the end was something that I didn't see coming.
Okay.
Um, because I'll fully expect you to hedge towards a different
direction, but a very nice, quaint movie that will not disappoint you.
I think it has a lot of funny heartfelt moments in there as well.
Yeah.
Um, engaging dialogue, interesting characters.
Something unexpected on my
KT: Yeah, absolutely.
Um, this film really hits to the center of a lot of the heartbreak
and heartwarming experiences.
That we go through with aging parents or, you know, loved
ones that have extra needs.
Oti: Mm-hmm.
KT: Um, there was a focus on the nhs.
You know, I, I guess just talking about the film generally, when we have
a film that you know is centered on caregivers, Um, formal caregivers, um,
in a geriatric sort of ward in a hospital in a small town away from London.
Um, you know, you have also political pressure, um, in regards
to how is this going to operate?
And a lot of, a lot of the sentiment that was shared in this film was
real, but it was very frustrating because we have like a character that.
You know, that is embedded in, you know, political sort of discourse, um, sort
of lobbying and that sort of thing.
And there was a lot of commentary about, you know, what's the bottom line?
How is this going to make us money?
How is this profitable?
And it's like, at the end of the day, countries all around the
world, specifically Western c.
Have a top heavy aging population.
Right?
And maybe this is the warm hippie Katie in me at some fucking point.
We're not talking about the bottom line because honestly, you are not going to
find any bottom line when it comes to caring for elderly people at some point.
It's just the right fucking thing to do.
Oti: It is, and I think the way the movie tackled it, it shows the aspects
of, oh, we appreciate the nhs, uh, you know, in any sort of country where
you have health workers, especially after the sort of events that have
transpired throughout the world.
It just shows you how underappreciated and how hard it is, especially for
senior citizens who feel that a, um, from a political perspective,
they're not gonna get the funding.
Um, and what that means for the workers in there and what, how, what they have
to do and juggle because it's quite hard, um, from an administrative point of view,
but also emotionally because there's this, uh, persistent feeling like, cause at
the end of the day, you're bloody human.
Yeah.
And watching people.
In and out.
Lack that is not a really good place to be from a mental perspective.
Um, I think they covered it quite nicely.
I appreciated the fact that it didn't, it didn't try to explain the reasons it
left you to the audience at the end of it.
KT: Yes.
Oti: because it's easy to put your political feelings in
and try and swear an audience.
I
KT: I would say that those words don't go together.
Political feelings,
Oti: Political affiliations in Nice to try and sway the audience.
And they didn't do that.
And that's kudos because we all need to face this fact at the end of the day.
At the end of the day, most of us will have, will be
faced in a similar situation.
Yeah.
Even if it's not us.
And it's, it's, it's a, it's, it's a concern that needs to be addressed
and I loved how they did it and executed it and the performances.
I love Judy Den.
KT: She, she obv.
Obviously, you can't have someone like Dame Judy Dench and not have
a pivotal role, but she had a very pivotal role in this film.
Oti: She did.
She did.
I, I, I, I was scared that it was sort of, I thought it would be
more of a cameo than anything else.
And I'm glad it wasn't because she added so much depth and
the performances was so good.
Um, but everyone else, you know, yeah.
We had, even the doctor, even ballet gill's character, Dr.
Valentine.
Yeah.
He.
Embodied the role so well,
KT: Yeah.
Oti: And even after the aftermath and how he landed, it still
felt he had a lot to give.
And it might be a path less traveled, but it's one that's needed and Wow.
KT: I absolutely agree with you.
And you know, you even said that eventually at some point, whether
it's ourselves or our loved ones, we're going to have to face this.
And that's what I absolutely loved about this film.
You, I agree with you in the sense that it doesn't, um, take you down
a path that you need to agree with.
Like you said, political sort of affiliations and that sort of thing.
But it definitely, you know, a lot of injustice.
Or a lot of, um, losing access or, or rights or, you know, um,
sort of placing in the community.
A lot of that can be neglected.
A lot of that can happen because we aren't facing that because it's
too difficult, because it's too sad because we don't wanna face it.
We don't look at the ugliness and.
The lack of, and the restricting of budgets and care.
Um, and this film absolutely shows that, like, there are, there are
definitely some heartwarming moments in this film, but there are some really
heartbreaking moments in this film.
And you see the strain that it has on the staff as well.
You see how entitled, uh, you know, and e even we've talked a little bit about this.
Um, you know, I think in a previous.
Max.
Um, but we've talked about instances where we understand wholeheartedly,
what's it, what it's like to have a loved one in, you know, a facility
to better look after their needs.
Um, so when I say the entitlement.
Of, of family members and loved ones, just know that I'm saying it out of a
place of experience and a place out of love because what, what, what they're
actually doing is taking out their emotion that they need to be processing
and not taking it out on the workers.
Oti: Yeah, a hundred percent.
Everything that they have to deal with, um, you just have
to appreciate them even more.
Um, if you haven't already or are not really.
Um, but yeah, we had characters like David Bradley also.
I think he was exemplary in this.
KT: Yeah.
But Phil always delivers.
He does.
He's always gonna
Oti: do it.
He does.
KT: Um, it's kind of like the, the best way I can describe it is like, no one
wants to talk about reproductive rights, but when you have young people or people
that aren't prepared or shouldn't need to carry to term, you know, people
are just like, oh, well, too bad.
And it's like, no.
Like if you don't like you, you can't just dismiss reproductive rights and
not have a conversation about it.
And you know, without spoiling it, there are particular themes that people don't
wanna face that get explored in this film because this is the unflinching
center where it needs to be discussed.
Oti: Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and I'm glad because when you said that was based off a
play, it felt like it as well
KT: because the dialogue is solid.
Yeah.
Oti: it did.
It did.
And I think that's the biggest kudos you can also give to the director.
Yeah.
He was able to sort of put that embodiment and vision and it showed, and wow.
I think very, very solid movie.
If you are in Australia, you can watch it go.
Um, you won't be disappointed.
KT: Yeah, there's, there's also, um, you know, one of the main characters.
There's definitely a battle between the head and the heart, you know?
Um, and that's really what this film is distilled into, the head versus
the heart, and doing the right thing for the people that you love.
Ooh, well, speaking about doing the right thing for the people that you love, being
very, very dysfunctional family dynamics.
We are finishing off with the series Dreamland, which, uh, is currently
available, um, in Australia.
Friends and lovers, check your local providers.
This is a comedy series.
Starring Freema Aman, as well as Lilly Allen.
Um, it's interesting, essentially this, uh, the center of this film are four
sisters and their mother, and figuring out the sort of family dynamics, we're not
going to spoiler, but there's definitely some things that we can talk about
tickling, you know, tickling the spoiled place without necessarily fruition.
Hmm.
Oti: Yeah.
Ah, I had fun with this series.
Hmm.
The characters grew on me, uh, a freeman.
Oh, you gotta lover her.
Solid performance.
Uh, Lilly Allen, who.
KT: knew?
Uh, well
Oti: she's doubled and yeah,
KT: she didn't wanna dabble in Game of Thrones brother Loving
Oti: the themes of this show are quite interesting because they do
cover a lot and they transverses a world of, you know, not only race but
having, you know, different, the sort of interactions between Trish and
the sisters and how that looks like.
You know, it's very intriguing and I think quite funny a moment.
But a heartbreaking finale.
Wow.
Wow,
KT: This show explores interesting family dynamics that is only
complicated by their own devices.
I think it's the best way, um, to describe it.
Like you said, there's a lot of, um, I wouldn't call it banal, but there's
a lot of like normal family shit.
Um, that is a way to explore the fragmenting and the lack of addressing
within the sister sort of unit, right.
And when I talk about the sister unit, I'm talking about Trish and Mel specifically.
Yeah.
Like even from the jump you could see that they didn't get along at all
Oti: They didn't and, and it was sort of interesting to see why that was, because
you could tell from the conversations that there was a closeness that was had before.
Yeah.
And relearning how that sort of broke up throughout the episodes mm-hmm.
Made it even more shocking.
KT: Yeah.
Oti: Made it even more shocking to what transpired.
KT: And you absolutely said it when you gave your first impressions.
We're not spoiling it, but we abso, abso, absolutely.
If anyone is listening, has power to make it so please give us a season.
Two, we need closure.
Oti: We need more than two seasons.
I wanna delve in the lives of these sisters.
I think there's a lot to be hard there.
You've got four completely different characters in them.
Yeah.
Um, I think we could probably get more from.
KT: that.
Oh yeah,
Oti: Because in the first season we, we focus more on nutrition, Mel, but
there's so much more nuance to be had uhhuh and I think we can delve deeper
way, way deeper on the other two sisters.
Yeah.
And I think even the mom to some degree, because there's a lot to be
said in that relationship as well there,
KT: There's a lot of sacrifice
Oti: Hmm.
KT: and it's interesting because that sacrifice is complicated by
a, a later plot line in season one that I didn't necessarily see
coming, but it kind of made sense.
Oti: I do.
Yeah, I see that
KT: that at its core, it's, it's definitely, you know, you know,
a lot, you know, we in general, we love watching a lot of things.
Um, and we've also been given the opportunity to access
screenings and screeners as well.
But lately there's a feeling where, you know, the, the high sort of pash
and the, the sort of, um, extravaga.
And the fireworks is more important than the characters.
Like sometimes you watch things and you see that they don't
care about the characters.
And what I really loved about Dreamland is it's, it's characters first.
You know, there are definitely going to be some heartbreaking sort of plot
lines, um, decisions from character sort of motivations, but it's always to
work at the center of the family unit.
Oti: A hundred percent agreed.
Uh, thank the rollercoaster of emotions it takes you through, even
when you are at the low, you can still see that the care has been taken.
Yeah, absolutely.
Towards the characters.
Because we've watched plenty of shows recently where it feels that
characters come second to plot lines.
Yeah.
And story.
And that affects your overall enjoyment of the show.
And this completely takes care of that in.
I didn't even think was possible because as I said, season, the first episode
started a bit slowly for me to my laing.
Mm-hmm.
But it gradually improved.
And the pacing, we love a good world building.
Oh yes.
But in this, we get such an a cohesive picture painted Yeah.
For what's to come.
And that's why I'm excited for second season because I feel like
this story can go so much deeper.
KT: Yes.
Oti: They can delve way more deep and cover more themes that
they can with especially such a dynamic family, um, cast.
Yeah.
And wow.
And I've definitely a highlight for April.
KT: Oh, we gobbled this season up.
We did.
It was a very easy
Oti: Back to bark.
To bark.
It's very bingeable.
I think you can even watch it on binge.
Yeah.
Thank,
KT: thank you to our friends and lovers at binge, um, for giving us
access to the screeners six episodes.
It's not going to hurt you.
If anything, it's going to heal you.
Oti: Six nicely, neatly packed episodes.
You know it's not an hour long or anything like that.
You can finish it over a week, a Saturday.
Yeah.
You know, um, but you will be.
KT: a holy day.
Oti: Yeah.
You'll be left pleased at the end of it, I think because it adds such a,
a much needed n not only levity, but feelings of just, it's, it's like a
whiplash of emotions in a good way.
Yeah.
KT: And it's one of those things of like, just go watch it and
then we can talk some more.
You know what I mean?
Mm-hmm.
You know what I'm saying?
Oti: You don't have to say what I'm saying.
Y'all know what you mean already.
KT: Okay.
A pimp called slip back.
Ooh.
Thank you friends and lovers for joining us another week in
the foyer reference household.
Whoever you splush out out your olds welcome at our denomin.
Oti: Oh.
KT: Uh, on Twitter and Instagram if you'd like Tolu Atta, we're at for your f pod
Oti: write us an email@hellofpodcast.com.
KT: We're also on, we're going to have totally, completely fine Mafia Mama.
A Black Lady Guest Show, black Lady Guest Show, uh, Mrs.
Davis Love and Death, as well as Infinity Pool on the Roster podcast if you'd
like to leave a rating and review.
And we'll see you guys in our next episode.
See y'all.
Bye.