The Suicide Squad – Quinn or lose

Full transcript of The Suicide Squad – Quinn or lose.

0:00KT: Welcome back to another week of Qualate in the For Your Reference household. We've had the opportunity to cover a lot of amazing franchises on this podcast. And if you feel like you would like to dabble, and I would strongly encourage, I collabed recently with our pals from Gateleapers. The Quid Pro Mo is provided by myself. Matt, Audra and Jason, thank you so much for having me on the podcast. I like to appoint myself as a gatekeeper for everything I talk about and the concept of their podcast is amazing. There's a lot of great

0:40KT: games that go along and it was all about Twilight. So if you feel like I couldn't embarrass myself more than the Twilight episode we have on this podcast, just wait for that collab to come out. Link in the show notes. Let's get on with the show. Yeehaw. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got yours, KT.

0:40Oti: And Oti.

0:40KT: Gaze into the mirror of the same group with two faces that even Harvey Dent would be jealous of.

1:34KT: Mount up and pray to the comic gods that you are more than a one dimensional caricature that dies in the first ten minutes. With the Suicide Squad films this motherfucking week, friends and lovers. Mhmm. Wow. Wow. Wow. Let's get into the general stats and information because I am very excited and I didn't even realize that I would be excited for this episode, Oti. So in regards to the comics, the original was written by Robert Kanigher and Ross Andru in regards to the modern interpretation, John Ostrander.

2:11KT: In regards to the films, we have Suicide Squad minus The released in August 2016. This is the David Ayer film. I tried to keep away for all of the discourse, but from what I do understand, Ayer does wanna release the hashtag Ayer cut that it was supposed to be more dramatic and that's why a lot of the comedy kind of fell flat because it wasn't Deadpool. But in any case, we have writer director David Ayer in regards to the top billing cast. We have Will Smith, Jared Leto, as well as Margot Robbie. Budget, $175,000,000,

2:50KT: and a worldwide gross of $746,846,000. Woah. That is more than a joker splash. Absolutely. We had the most recent iteration, non iteration in 2021 called The Suicide Squad by The James Gunn, Guardians of the Galaxy. If you're welcome, if you're family friendly because this film absolutely was not. In regards to cast, we have Margot Robbie, Idris Elba, John Cena, Pamela's Panini's keep keep the annoying discourse of box office and whether it fails or whether it doesn't fail, And I'm really not interested

3:34KT: in that discourse. So we're not really getting into it. Recently just came out, so we're not getting into those particular stats. But Oti, who knew we would be where we are back from 2016? Let's get into first impressions because from what from what I felt in the For Your Reference household, we're a bit lukewarm. I would say we might have even been more negative, but we're a bit lukewarm on the Suicide 2016 film. So please give us your first impressions of the 2016 film and then also the most recent 2021.

4:11Oti: It feels like it's been so long since we watched the 2016 version. Yeah. Because I remember we'd gone to the cinema. It was a whole affair. It was. And to be disappointed coming out of the cinema, I remember us just thinking, yeah, we really didn't need to go to watch it though.

4:28Oti: At a time where we felt like we had all the time to go to the cinema. Yeah. Yeah. And at the time, I've been dragging you through all the sort of Marvel movies prior and but when DC did, Suicide Squad was like, definitely have to go and watch it. Yeah. And I was just disappointed that it wasn't something that I could, you know, convince you one more time to go to the cinemas with me to watch something else, you know? So I I was disappointed,

4:51Oti: but wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. I think a lot of the things I fell short in the first one, they were done brilliantly in the second. I enjoyed it so much. I feel guilty that I could only watch it through HBO. It felt like I needed to be in the cinema to fully experience it. I would have loved that I really would have.

4:51KT: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I absolutely agree. 2016,

5:17KT: maybe we were spoiled, who knows? Or maybe time passed us and we were able to let the dust settle and just enjoy the film for what it was. Because I think it did, you know, and it was quite clear in regards for the mismatched tone that they had in 2016, that it was competing in the landscape of all of the films that were coming out at the time. DC, as far as I understand in my non comic book reading

5:45KT: sort of knowledge, it is a bit more grittier than Marvel or at least the recent sort of portrayals have been. So trying to compete at peak Marvel time, I would imagine that there would have been a lot of influence in regards to that because 2021, the Suicide Squad, I would say I wanna say the early recognized because I did enjoy the twenty sixteen one. But the 2021 version really just felt like it was in its own world. It was minding its business. And what I really liked about it tonally,

6:19KT: it didn't give a fuck about kids because this was not made for kids. I think when we watch a lot of Marvel films, they it's obviously geared towards everyone, so as many people can consume it. But if a preteen were to walk into the room, you know, the biggest sort of edginess you have is Paul Rudd. So no one's really going to have to explain anything afterwards aside from the fact that he seems to be the Benjamin Button because he he's got some good skin. Mhmm. He's definite he's definitely got some good skin.

6:58KT: But I really I really absolutely had a lot of fun with The Suicide Squad. I like, it really hit all the marks really. In way of entertainment that we're enjoying so much right now, The Boys. Obviously, Arthur is a fan fave. Like, I like entertainment that's geared towards adults and the kids shouldn't even be in the fucking room, really. The violence, the gore, you know, the stakes of them all. It was very vivacious in the in the tone in 2021. I would have preferred a lot of a lot more sexual sort of dialogue,

7:40KT: a lot more vulgar sort of dialogue just to round out my nastiness. But in regards to like violence and tone, I really feel like 2021

7:49KT: delivered.

7:49Oti: Yeah. Even in the exposition of it all, it didn't feel as forced as The Fasting. Like Rick Flag? Oh, dear Lord. Him explaining who Katana was. This is Katana.

8:01KT: Yeah. I would say Rick Flag is the plot device. Yeah. He was especially for the first movie, which we'll get into. But I'm starting to really enjoy. Even if I don't fully love something, I enjoy our franchise watching. Don't ask us about G.I. Joe. We still haven't decided whether we wanna dabble down to the Snake Eyes of it all. But, you know, Mortal Kombat, Bad Boys, Rush Hour, it's fun to work our way towards a franchise and hopefully, you know, be able to record a podcast on it. So let's get into the 2016 film.

8:39KT: By all accounts, minus the Joker, I really I I thought I thought it was great. Interesting at the time, I didn't really care for it. And I guess that's why, you know, people talk about giving things a rewatch. Something telling, just jumping to the 2021

8:56KT: really quickly. We've talked a lot on the podcast about how I just watch the same things all the time. Oti likes to watch a lot of things. And usually if you wanna re like, even if you enjoy something and you wanna rewatch it, it's not within a two year sort of timeframe. But you were like, we can watch this very soon again. Yeah. So it it definitely speaks to

9:20KT: I think like even now, when you enjoy something, just enjoy it, you know? You can you can pick it apart and you can do all those sorts of things, but in the reprieve of cinema, you take your wins where you can. Right? And and there were definitely a lot of wins in the 2016 film. I I I think the only thing that didn't work for me all these years later was Jared Leto.

9:20Oti: Yeah. I I

9:45Oti: think I think I've just reached a peak saturation of Leto with for me. I think at the time when I watched the first time, the 2016 version, I was like, he wasn't doing it for me. I found his appearance is quite annoying. I think he was trying to overdo a lot of stuff that just came out as weird and awkward. But apparently, if it does feel like a lot of those stuff was out of context, maybe that explains a little bit of that. But having rewatched it recently, I'm not sure where my head was at at the point because

10:18Oti: it wasn't as annoying, but it still wasn't great.

10:21KT: I found it okay. Like, I didn't think it was the worst thing ever. Indulgence is the word. Like, whenever he was on the screen, it was super super indulgent. And I think even just the bare sense of the fact that this was a Suicide Squad and not a Batman film, it was nice to get to know new characters and give Harley Quinn like a new shine. Yeah. Because this was one of like the first sort of introductions or at least one of the media sort of roles we had in the DCEU.

10:50KT: So I really didn't see the need to have Joker in this film. But I think it's also just like contextually stories about him being a shit cast member. Him possibly, maybe not possibly

11:05KT: claiming and not claiming to be a cult leader. Like, all of that sort of it's just like, is it really worth it to, like, have you in my eyeballs? Probably not.

11:05Oti: There was a lot of there was a lot of talk of that before the movie got released. And I think at the back of my mind, I was just expecting some spectacular performances. And then what I got, I was like, oh, fuck off, man. Yeah.

11:29KT: Yeah. But anyway, this is this isn't the Joker movie. And we loved we actually really loved Joaquin Phoenix's Joker. It was Ozzy Beats as well. But, yeah, much we did spend some time in the Joker episode talking about how, you know, how people reacted to it and how we didn't understand how people reacted to it. But I don't wanna get into that today. Like, if you didn't enjoy twenty sixteen Suicide Squad, then fine. And if you didn't enjoy twenty twenty one Suicide Squad, they're all letters, dickhead. I

12:07KT: wasn't even trying to put on the Aussie accent. It was just there, friends and lovers. So let's let's dive into more of the cast in 2016. Who do you wanna go to? Oh, let's start with Harley. We gotta start with Harley. Right? I think if people spent more than a second, they would fall in love with Harley Quinn. Just generally as a character across films, even the cartoon version with Kaley Cuoco, probably the best and most enjoyable role I've seen of her. Not Flight Attendant. I never watched Big Bang Theory. Yeah.

12:39KT: That's a hard yikes. But I really enjoy Harley Quinn as a character because there is in most cases, there is an arc of her trying to come into her own. She has this endearing nature about her. She's she's a killer, just like Rick Flag was saying about the weasel. He's harmless. He's killed like 27 children. Like, obviously, you need to suspend, I guess, criminal sort of activity to enjoy a film like this. But by all cases of accounts, Harley Quinn is a sweetheart. And she does mean well

13:16KT: as well. So it was it was definitely most welcome. I really enjoyed her in the film. She kind of was on the leash of Joker, if you'll pardon the pun. But I enjoyed her in the role. She was kind of the glue in the squad as well.

13:16Oti: Yeah. I think that for second time I was rewatching

13:34Oti: Suicide Squad 2016 is I got I started getting my story sort of mixed up for Harley Quinn where we'd watched Emancipation of Harley Quinn, which I think it was a good movie. It wasn't as bad as how people wanted to make it out to be. It was a lot of fun and the action was Primo Stahelski

13:50KT: stand up.

13:52Oti: It was. It was. You could tell John Wickenstein was in the building in essence.

13:57KT: Oh, very nice. Oh, very nice. Yeah. But it yeah. I think trying to understand the timelines as well, but it's only because we watched twenty sixteen recently, even though that would have come out before. But I really enjoyed her arc. I thought it was great. It is sad. It's very predictable, much like the Martha breaking of the pearls. It's very predictable where you see Harley's heartbreaking because she realizes at whatever point in the story you're watching that she realizes the Joker never really loved her and was always,

14:32KT: maybe not always, but like at that point she's realizing she's being used and manipulated. It was sad to see her go through that heartbreak in 2016.

14:41Oti: I think that was more in the Emancipation because we don't get to see her get brokenhearted by the Joker in 2016 version. It's more her thinking that the Joker has died and and then up until the Joker comes to rescue her at the very end of the movie to set up Emancipation and wow. And that's where we get to see her realize how the Joker was just a shit ton.

14:41KT: Time is nonlinear letters, you dickhead.

15:06KT: Let's move on to Deadshot. Big Willie, welcome to Miami, all of that good stuff in the Wild Wild West of it all. Are we ever gonna cover Wild Wild West? Probably not. And I've never watched it, so I can't even speak I to can't even keep up with what you've not watched anymore. I kept up with Cisco's head fads. That should count for something. Alright.

15:33KT: But but let's talk about it. How did you feel about Will Smith? Because I remember when we first watched it, we automatically recoiled at the idea of Will Smith being in this. And I don't think we felt so strongly watching it recently.

15:33Oti: I don't think that I recoiled.

15:49Oti: I was excited to see him play this role just because we've not gotten

15:53Oti: action Willie in a while.

15:53KT: Do you buy big Willie as a dick? That is a phrase that we're going to keep. Yeah. Yeah. He's he's been a dick in a lot of movies. He was a dick in Bad Boys, but that was before the sodium. Hancock is a he's a dick. Did it work though?

16:12Oti: It doesn't matter if it worked. He was a dick.

16:15KT: How come no one wanna hold my Hancock, man? Friends and lovers, chime in. Do you believe Hancock worked? And even if you love Oti, please be honest. Oti needs some honesty. Really? Is this the Hancock you're gonna choke on? Is this the Hancock you're gonna swallow on?

16:37KT: Jesus. Okay. Let's go back to Deadshot. How did you feel aside from Will Smith, how did you feel about his character?

16:37Oti: On the basis of it, I think I liked his character, him being driven by the daughter and not trying to disappoint her too much. You know, it's it's one of those things that is understandable and sort of relatable. You can empathize with that. Yeah. So a lot of the decisions that he made just so that he couldn't disappoint her, I got with that, you know.

17:01Oti: I enjoyed the fact that they got a strong bond with Harley as well. Yeah. And you could tell that connection sparked quite early and fast. Oh, yeah. You know, everything in that movie sparked fast because in the timeline of it all, it happens all in one night or some shit. Oh, one night in Gotham, Yeah. And at the end of it, they're all a big happy family. Well, for Will.

17:27KT: Not fair. Because we I think we both thought that Jai Courtney died. Yes.

17:33Oti: It wasn't to be. No. Yeah. We thought Boomerang died. Oh, I thought Boomerang died quite early and it wasn't the case. It was Slipknot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

17:33KT: Absolutely. But going back to Deadshot,

17:45KT: I think for all intents and purposes, he was the straight man. He he was like the skilled sort of marksman. He kind of had jokes, with Harley Quinn, for the most part, you know, to quote Jason Statham from Wrath of Man, paid me to do job, did the job. So I think he was serviceable there. I don't think he offered really anything memorable aside from the role that he had. Yeah. Nothing memorable. He didn't bring us any sort of seasoning, any sort of cayenne pepper, any sort of coriander seeds or something, you know?

18:24KT: But I I I thought it was okay. He did get to we did get to see a Will Smith, Ben Affleck sort of face off. Mhmm. But with the daughter there as well. I don't know. I thought I I was hoping he'll just go for broke, but anyway, that's just me. Again, this is not for kids.

18:42Oti: Use their daughter as a human shield. Yeah.

18:45KT: Pretty much. I wanna talk about Enchantress because this is even though I did enjoy the film, this is one of the qualms that I had with it. There was no really through line. Like, we weren't really working towards anything. It was, you know, that basic sort of story of like the government setting up secret task force just in case. Right? If there was anything, it wasn't necessarily communicated

19:14KT: to us. So it really felt like we were mounting up the crew to do what? Right? And then obviously it gets to a point where they have to defend the world against Enchantress, but that happens while the film is happening. You see what I'm saying? Like, so we're kind of just going blind. And I guess if we were enjoying it, we wouldn't it wouldn't really bother us as much either, but it kind of bothered me that we didn't really know where we were going aside from introducing characters

19:41KT: Yeah. For the first first part of the film. What did you feel about Enchantress?

19:41Oti: I didn't I didn't mind her at all. I feel like I enjoyed the transition from June Moon to Enchantress. That was quite cool.

19:41KT: Oh, was very sleek. But

19:55KT: I say for Enchantress, burn that shit to the ground because Waller was terrible. She was like prodding her heart. No, I didn't I didn't care for that. That was Anyway, I want us to talk about Waller in a second. But yeah, I just generally wanted to talk about Enchantress because I felt like we were just meandering.

20:13KT: It was fun meeting the crew, but we were just meandering until we had a purpose for the film.

20:13Oti: She was like at the end of the movie, there was this fight scene where she was going on with the crew with swords and whatnot. And then she drops the sword and is like, now it's time to do this seriously. I'm like, mate, just get rid of them if you can. Snap your fingers or whatnot.

20:35KT: Yeah. Don't give an opportunity to come up with a plan to to to kill you. And that was exactly what I was thinking because while we're watching the film, they're all kind of essentially just human. Right? Yeah. Skilled, strong humans, but they're still humans. And then when we met Enchantress, I'm like, she seems like super powerful compared to the rest of them.

20:56Oti: Yeah. It's like it's like, you know, and people argue about this all the time, but to me, it's like putting up Batman with Superman because at the end of it, powerful pound, there's only one fucking clear winner. And they can come up with fucking convoluted ways in it to make Batman win, but at the back of your mind, you always know they're just twisting the fucking storyline to make it seamless if he can win because at the end of it, he cannot.

21:25KT: Yeah. There there's a lot of

21:27Oti: Tom Cruise, I imagine, smoke screens to make it look Smooth up. I'll throw a muffler in there.

21:35KT: Some pearls if you nest it. Shout outs to Karen Fukuhara because we love her. I hope that we get to see and it's not a reflection on her, it's a reflection on the industry. I hope we get to see her as more of the less than mysterious Asian person that barely says anything. We do see her in The Boys. I do believe her character's name is Female. Yeah. Because the future is female, Oti. As Katana,

22:05KT: we really didn't get a chance to latch onto her as a character. And I would say the same for Adewale, Killer Croc. Yeah.

22:13Oti: Adewale was such a

22:15Oti: non character in this.

22:15KT: Yeah. And I was saying, he barely said anything. He was barely in any scenes, yet he probably sat in the makeup chair for hours. Yeah. He's probably the one who was in the scene the most, the set the most. Yeah. They would never disrespect. Disrespect. They would never disrespect Stallone like that. Don't do our boy Adewale like that. Yeah. That wasn't great. Lastly, we haven't captured Diablo at all. The strongest

22:45KT: member

22:46KT: in the crew by far. Yeah. He definitely felt like Captain Marvel because he had so much power, but he didn't display it until I could use this bar. I'm in another planet serving something else. Because why would you need anyone else if Diablo was there? He he had a very emotional moment at the end where he was sacrificing himself,

23:11KT: but I really don't feel like we earned that either.

23:11Oti: I already lost a family. I'm not gonna lose another family. What family, mate? You barely know this, guys.

23:21KT: Anything else about the 2016 film before we move on to the main event?

23:27Oti: Sitting here, having watched this the 2021 version, I can just say that I'm happy. If if we had to get the 2016 version to be here right now, I'll I'll take that. I'll take that. Yeah. It it it was a journey. It was a road that we had to travel to

23:45Oti: get to where we were.

23:45KT: But in saying that, I don't think it was it was a bad offering either. Fair enough, man. Fair enough. Alright. Let's get into 2021. I wanna I wanna have face off right now. Deadshot Bloodsport.

23:59Oti: Bloodsport. He can do more.

24:02KT: But is it Idris? Is it his acting? Because he does have a charisma. He brings a lot on the table. He definitely brings a lot. And it's not to say that Will Smith doesn't, but we've watched Loofah. Like,

24:17KT: get it.

24:17Oti: Right? Why don't you love him, man? Stick with your homeboy, mate.

24:24KT: But it it really did feel very copy paste in in the fact that he was a great marksman.

24:31Oti: But with different things, not just guns. But it was also his daughter as well. Him and his daughter had some very good scenes. I like how both daughters knew their fathers were crap and, you know, they're still hanging around like this is my pops, man. Less so Bloodsport because it I think the one of that was one of the most funniest scenes I've seen, the first interaction with Bloodsport and the daughter. It was just ridiculous.

24:56KT: With your was it a TV watch phone? Yeah. She got caught stealing a watch. Yeah. It just works. When it works, it just works. Tonally, this film hit all of the marks. I thought it was I absolutely loved it. And I think the success of the 2021 version is that it didn't shy away from the sometimes all the time ridiculous nature of comics and animation. It leaned into it. Right? I guess if you can compare it, this is like live action Japanese Death Note. Oh.

25:34KT: And 2016 is live action Dragon Ball Evolution with Bulma with the one blue with the one blue streak in her hair. Like, if you want realism, then go and watch A Few Good Men. If you wanna watch a film that is a lot of fanfare and it's a whole lot of fun, that has some tethers to reality to some people, then this is where you go, friends and lovers. This is absolutely where you go. And Bloodsport, I don't know. I just latched onto Idris' performance instantly. Instantly

26:06KT: compared to Will Smith. Because literally their characters was pretty much the same. The same. Yeah. From what I understand, they kept Deadshot open in case they have future collaborations. But anyway, this is gonna turn into an Idris love train. Go and listen to The Wire and also most recently Concrete Cowboy. Mhmm. Where we covered it as well. But I just wanted to go right off the bat with that. Let's go into Harley. The action scenes were primo stuff. And it was very reminiscent of her not reminiscent stylistically,

26:38KT: but just the the the guttural sort of feeling in watching the Emancipation of Harley Quinn. The like the elevator scene as well as when she has that really cute sort of moment with the javelin as well. Yeah. Yeah. The character as well as the literal javelin, if you'll pardon the pun. But when she was stabbing and impaling them like shish kebabs,

27:03KT: and it had like the the petals and the animation, like, this is what we want. If we're not if we're not like blowing up whale guts, this is what I want. Yeah. Fucking lean into the crazy. Lean into it, Oti. Yes, please. Thank you very much. Spank me on my ass. Wow. And I'll be on my merry way.

27:24Oti: Yeah. You just gotta lean in and I think they did that completely in this movie. I enjoyed all of Harley's scenes. It was funny. Didn't take themselves too seriously. And it worked. It fucking worked. Yeah.

27:38KT: And it's very obvious that her costume is much different as well. I don't I don't know where that sits with with with the movie bros or the other motherfuckers that have a problem with women wearing more clothes. But I I was just happy that it was a great environment. James Gunn talks about how this is the most fun he's ever had filming something. A lot of the cast, if we believe what we see in interviews, talk a lot about how much fun they had on set. And I felt like it radiated.

28:09KT: When it works, it works. Yeah. Who who would you say would be your next favorite?

28:14Oti: Oh, I'd say Polka-Dot Man.

28:14KT: Really?

28:14Oti: Yes.

28:14KT: Okay.

28:14Oti: I found his whole storyline fucking great.

28:27KT: Are we gonna tap into mummy issues again? Oh, you'll have fucking mummy issues. That was amazing. That's what people with mummy issues say. Friends and lovers, welcome to another edition of For Your Reference, mummy issues.

28:41Oti: I just enjoyed his scenes. I think a lot of the times when you understand what was going on and he sees his mom everywhere. I can't even imagine that. That would fucking

28:52Oti: infuriate me.

28:52KT: I think it was Peacemaker that made a reference to Norman Bates. And I'm like, yes. Thank you for giving the commentary we wish we could during the film. I'm like, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Well, yeah, I agree. Polka-Dot Man was very useful. Shout outs to David Dastmalchian because he plays Calendar Man in The Long Halloween. But I I get what you're saying. I don't think he would be my go to favorite, but he he wasn't a plot device, but he was

29:28KT: he was he was in a lot of fun. Like, he was the Eeyore of the group.

29:34Oti: I know who you're going to say your favorite was. Who? Milton. Don't even pretend.

29:40KT: Milton is the Brett. Oh, that was funny. It was. It was funny. And they had like inside jokes, running jokes, which were very nice as well. Let's talk about Peacemaker. Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. If you made it this far, you're super nasty if you weren't expecting spoilers at this point. We can talk about his character, but I wanna talk about the twist in regards to Peacemaker. So I don't agree with the premise of his character. So essentially, from what we understand, he's here to make the peace. He made some really weird lines,

30:16KT: of dialogue he had earlier in the film. He's like, I'm here to maintain the peace even if I have to kill kids and women. Right? And that was funny because it was just like, okay, on your bike, mate. Right? So there was really nothing to think about it. That contextualizes when we get further in the film. But what bothers me about this is what does like, at what point and welcome to as existential KT

30:42KT: coming into the room. At what point does peace lose meaning? Because if you're maintaining peace by the powers that are corrupt, how does that even materialize into anything that is beneficial

30:55Oti: for humanity? He's maintaining the status quo. And I think to him, the status quo is fucking peace. But in in and of itself, that is bias. It is bias. No one's fucking saying this guy mate, this guy's a fucking criminals.

31:08KT: Are you saying Pokemon man has more moral fiber? Yeah. No. But it just bothered me because it's like, everyone's got a, you know, sense of distorted justice. Cool. Yeah. I get that. But what does peace even mean? Right? Like that doesn't that didn't really translate for me. It didn't make sense because it's like, you know, these people are doing evil things yet you're still maintaining the peace. So what does that even mean?

31:08Oti: Well, they've got a chip in his head, so he has to do he has to follow the rules.

31:40KT: Is he a peacemaker Drexler? Mhmm. I just keep bringing up Archer. Yeah. We miss Archer, don't we? Mhmm. I really enjoyed Peacemaker and Bloodsport's sort of rivalry that they had, especially when they were infiltrating the camp. Yeah. And they were going for like the deadliest, most impressive sort of kills. The bathtub, I think is a key call out. Yeah. Or for them to realize that everyone was a good guy, but they killed them all.

32:08Oti: It's just great. It's You fucking leaned in.

32:11KT: And that's exactly what you want. Like, I don't know what else we can say without saying the words that exist. Mhmm. Speaking about leaning in with all limbs, I wanna talk about TDK. Nathan Fillion. And I had to keep reminding me because he was just as useless as Jeremy Renner's arrow guy. I had to remind myself that they weren't the same person. Well, to be fair, much like arrows, once you run out of limbs, you're pretty useless.

32:41Oti: Are you saying are you saying TDK and Hawkeye on the same level? Well, if Hawkeye had more arrows, then he would be more useful.

32:49KT: What are you gonna do? Go and retrieve your arm from the battlefield to throw it again? I'd say Hawkeye is fucking a 100 times more useful than TDK. Oh, I see. I see.

33:01Oti: You come you you pretty much equated them to the same thing, which is not which is unfair.

33:06KT: Well, you don't know how skilled he is at slapping people. That's But when his I'm eyes were getting shot, he was on the floor. Banged in pain.

33:18Oti: Know who he's you know who he's the equivalent to? For those anime lovers, if you've watched Bleach, he's like Sajin Komamura. You know, his bankai his his

33:30Oti: bankai is fucking a big massive thing that it gets hit and it feels pain. I'm like, what's the fucking point?

33:30KT: Yeah. Exactly. Because then you might as well just run up there yourself and hit them if it's going to affect you from a distance. Yep. There's literally no point to that at all. Speaking of no point to that, shout outs to Pete Davidson as Blackguard. Oh.

33:55Oti: You know what's interesting? I avoided any sort of trailer. I didn't want to know anything about this movie. I went in completely cold. And when I saw Pete Davidson and I saw the first sort of cast, I was like, oh, interesting choices. And then they all fucking died within the first ten minutes. I was like, what is this movie?

34:16KT: To be fair, I think I'm going to stop looking at news and following news and watching trailers because I was very dubious when a lot of this information or trailers or pictures behind the set is especially when we saw a picture of Polka-Dot Man, we're like, what the fuck is this shit? I don't even remember seeing that. Well, you go. And you you were able to enjoy yourself without judgment. Yeah. So when they said team two, I was like, what team two? Actually, yes. And that is some kudos.

34:45KT: That is some FYR points if you can redeem them anyway. In regards to this film, I love the way they laid out the story. We were introduced to a crew that we were familiar with only to realize that they were the Expendables. Yep. That they were there as a diversion. Right?

35:03KT: And I I like how he looped back. I liked the the pacing of this film and I liked the back and forth and the storytelling and how they chose to tell the story.

35:03Oti: Oh, thought you said expendable just because you had your Stallone's Nanaue in there.

35:03KT: I really enjoyed him. I really enjoyed him. They didn't refer to him as King Shark, which I thought was interesting. I enjoyed him. I thought it was great. I didn't get very far in the first Guardians of the Galaxy

35:31KT: because of the prattery asshole of it all. So I just didn't get into the film, but I get the gist of Groot And I'm assuming that's kind of what was translated here as well. But I enjoyed I enjoyed everything about that. We haven't spoken about Ratcatcher 2, not to be confused with Ratcatcher, otherwise known as Taika Ratcatcher Waititi.

35:55Oti: Wow. Her power, you know? It's useful, but then you take the gadget away from her and she's

35:55KT: Right. Because I was like, that's not really sorry to gatekeep

36:07KT: powers, superpowers, but if you can use an instrument, can do it then. I could take your flashlight and then what? And I can take your flashlight, take myself. Yeah. I was like, it kinda cheapened the whole experience.

36:25Oti: No. But I think her story was quite good and deep and emotional and they connected, know, it's one of the things that made harm Bloodsport resonate so well as again. Yeah. There was some emotion in this film and it worked. And

36:40Oti: it's because they did the work to lay the ground. Yeah. So when when Bloodsport

36:45Oti: is diving in to save her, you could see that, oh, it's not out of nowhere. He's so hot as the daughter. Like, you know, it's the soul of cinema things. Like, she was caught stealing something stupid just like her daughter, and, you know, Angel layers and layers and callbacks, and it walks. Yeah. Works.

37:04KT: Speaking of the emotional moments that Ratcatcher 2 brings, there was a flashback moment, which was kind of the crescendo of the emotional drive of her backstory. And Taika, in whatever accent he decided, said, you know why we use rats? And he said that rats are the lowliest and most despised of all creatures, but if they have purpose, so do we all. I was fine if he had just said, rats are everywhere, so you'll be powerful wherever you go. I was expecting something like that. Because that makes sense. It

37:41KT: was I also enjoyed how everyone had a part to play in this film. Yeah. Like Ratcatcher became very, very useful at the end of the film and so did Polka-Dot Man. But then he kind of did it when he was in his mummy fantasy. So I'm not sure how much actual damage he did.

38:00Oti: No, he did some damage.

38:04KT: You wanna talk about Captain Boomerang?

38:04Oti: Oh, we got to see Alvaro die again.

38:04KT: Well, he made it here, so I didn't I wasn't expecting him to die.

38:04Oti: Yeah. I think

38:16Oti: to me, I think it's it's ridiculous because I've I had in my memory, I thought he had died in the first sort of 2016 version, but he was there. And for him to just be killed off quite early, I didn't understand what was going on. How can you kill the entire team when we've just introduced them? But you know what? Team two men brought the a game.

38:16KT: But that's exactly what we love because like Game of Thrones, for example, it was very clear that some actors were very important so they were never gonna die.

38:45KT: Right? Or characters, actors, whatever you what however you wanna equate it. Yeah. So Captain Boomerang, I was hoping to keep him around, but I think maybe even a whisper of him being able to have some sexy scenes with Kate Beckinsale probably distracted him elsewhere onto a different set. Let's talk about Waller because I've taken some shots, but we haven't directly addressed Amanda Waller. I love Viola Davis, but I didn't like her performances in either film. And the fact that she did twenty sixteen very deadpan without any sort of dimension

39:24KT: at all, and she chose to do that same performance in 2021, it just stuck out like a sore thumb to me. I don't get like, if you're going to be super, super evil, cool. That's kind of where we're dabbling right now. But she had literally no emotion. I'm not saying she should have flicked her bean over pleasure of, you know, uprooting these people lives and and killing innocent people or willfully killing innocent people. But it's I like would've taken that. Well, we can all flick our beans, proverbially, but preferably, literally.

39:58KT: I just didn't it bothered me. She bothered me because I know the caliber of her acting. Denzel shouting Fences and all. Like, I I know how amazing she is. And you can you you could say that this is not a film to stretch your thespian chops, but Idris was here. Right? So I didn't I felt like her performance wasn't great in 2016, and it bothered me that she brought the same

40:25KT: low deadpan energy here.

40:25Oti: Maybe that's just the direction she's been given. Like, I don't I didn't I don't like her as well. I didn't like, last season, it's just fucking and I was like, it's tedious. It got tedious. Yeah. And I was tired as why anyone would fucking listen to her or be surprised at anything that she does because she's such foreign surprised

40:48Oti: by her every time.

40:49Oti: You know her. You've heard of her. Don't be shocked when she fucking wants to kill children. That's her. Yeah. Like, that's just a normal Tuesday for her, mate. Yeah. I just didn't care for her at all. And I think one of the best moments for me that happened in the movie is when one of the employees knocked her off, knocked her out. I was like, yeah, about time. About time. Right?

41:12KT: How many opportunities did you guys have? She has like fucking nine lives, man. She doesn't go away. She's always there and But she's smart because she gets people with leverage or that have no other options. So maybe her staff will shit people too. They kind of had a tontine as well going on.

41:31Oti: You know what? If there was a moment to get rid of her was in the first movie where this guy's had an opportunity to just, yeah, she can fucking die. Yeah. Then there's no leverage on us.

41:31KT: And you know what? Let's talk about it because I don't really like to live in this world, which is very interesting. This is a very Oti thing to do, this thought process.

41:55KT: So they're all compelled to do these suicide squad missions because of the chip that they have. Right? But these are some badass criminals. So surely they have whoever created that for Waller, the switchboard thing, surely they have an equivalent person that can find a way to disarm it. Or even just put a fucking chip in Waller. Like, it's like equal footing.

42:21KT: Like, that that kind of got me, but it was only because Waller bothered me as a character. Otherwise, I wouldn't have even gotten that far outside of the context of the film. But I'm just like, they're all terrible criminal people. They must know someone else that is able to do that.

42:21Oti: Well, Joker someone to deactivate

42:37Oti: Harley's chip in the first movie. Well, there you go. So it's not outside the realm of possibilities. It's just, I guess, they barely have any time to make a plan if they don't know anyone outside. It's not like our Bloodsport could call out even and be like, hey, mate.

42:55KT: A while.

42:57Oti: But wow. What do you say? I think I'm ready to rewatch this this weekend.

43:03KT: Oh. Yeah.

43:05Oti: That is sort of movie. It's just bloody enjoyable in every way possible.

43:10KT: It's fucking great. It's amazing. I loved it. I love that you loved it. If any of you didn't love it, feel free to chime in and let us know what your thoughts are. But that is us this week, friends and lovers. We we would like to think we're a substantial part of the squad, but I'm pretty sure we're the ones that would die off very early. Yeah. Team one, baby. I would be Savant. I would be trying to swim away.

43:38Oti: Alright. I'll take Milton's role then.

43:38KT: No. You're Weasel.

43:42KT: I'll survive until the very end. You didn't even get that. Oh, actually, yeah. You're right. I forgot about that. Wait. I'm in the third movie. Nice. Ugly looking Sid motherfucker. Thank you friends and lovers for joining us on this journey. We're going to finish off in a segment we call, For Your Reference,

44:04KT: Oti.

44:04Oti: I'd like to reference The

44:04KT: Very

44:08KT: nice. Mhmm. Very nice indeed. And for those that have watched The Boys, but you weren't aware, we do have two podcast episodes. We do. So make sure you go and check that out. I will reference just on the fact that I had so much fun watching this and also the presence of King Shark, I will be referencing very recently, Oti has introduced me to Deep Blue Sea with LL Cool J. Oh, Jesus. It was so much fun. Strong recommend, friends and lovers, and it has recently come out on Netflix around the world. Wow.

44:53KT: So much fun. Left field, Well, if it's not LL Cool J in the Last Holiday with Queen Latifah, it's LL Cool J in Deep Blue Sea. I don't know what to say. If you have a way of LL Cool J exploring my deep Lucy on Twitter and Instagram, we're @ForYourRefPod. Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're at all names and letters dickhead podcast if you like to leave a rating and review. And we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.