The Pop Out with White People Won’t Save You podcast

Full transcript of The Pop Out with White People Won’t Save You podcast.

0:04KT: Hey, friends and lovers. Welcome back to another week at the For Your Reference Podcast. We have another edition of KT and Friends where we are popping out. It's all about the beef. You better stay in your fucking cage. And we're talking about films that are referenced in the Kendrick Lamar and Drake beef. And today we have the best of the best. The most exciting tantamount moment in podcast and cinematic history, we have Jordan and Cameron from the White People Won't Save You podcast.

0:41Guests: What's up? How's it going? What up, what up?

0:43KT: Thank you so much for joining me today. I think by default, if you, if I fucks with you and we have bants and we send funny memes about the beef, we're automatically going to have a good time.

0:57Guests: Hey, absolutely

0:58KT: And right off the dome, I was like, I need to, and we literally just did a collab, um, wanky podcast, double plug special friends and lovers go and check out, not just cause I was on it, but go and check out White People Won't Save You podcast. I would love to hear, I guess about the both of you, but just generally very quickly about the podcast. We have a lot. We're going to talk about, but we've also said we've got a lot of time, friends and lovers. So get satiated, stay lubricated. Um, but I would love to hear about White People Won't Save You and about you two individually, because unlike us, you guys are genuinely creative people that don't just talk shit around the world.

1:36KT: Ha ha ha ha.

1:39Guests: Uh, we like to, I, I guess we're a, a dually employed. Yeah. That, that sense? Yeah. yeah, I never, I, I never know how to do this cause it's just like, who starts, who goes first? I'll go first. Uh, sure. Uh, so yeah, we, we started the podcast and feels like just yesterday, but it certainly has been a couple of years now, uh, during the pandemic, I think we were both, both sitting around, uh, looking for something to do.

2:07Guests: And I had done some podcast stuff before, but it had been a minute and I love bad movies. But one of the things I had noticed was that, uh, there was a lot of white savior movies, which are terrible, and that was something that nobody was talking about, like, there were no podcasts or discussions about it, and when you watch them, you know, like, there certainly is, at least for, you know, people of color, because they do it to all of us, there's black ones, there's, uh, hispanic ones, there's asian ones, like, everybody gets the same treatment, yeah, But when you watch them, it's just like, it's so crazy that one, they've been doing this for so long.

2:45Guests: And two that like, they're so, they're so bad, like they're bad movies. Like they're bad. They're the worst of the worst. But they get nominated for. Yeah, go ahead. No, no, no. I was just saying that like, what I'm noticing is they're all mostly bad. I would say like 90 percent of them are like. Yeah. Yeah, but so many of them have been nominated for Oscars, have won Oscars, have been like, you know, put on best of film lists and all this stuff.

3:18Guests: And so, yeah, what we wanted to do was one, I mean, you know, like, you want to poke fun at it, you want to, you know, talk about how crazy some of this stuff is. But there's also some actual real life, real world connections to make just between race, media, and how this stuff. Gets into culture and how people, unfortunately, will form views from watching these movies, specifically ones that are allegedly based on history, uh, and then they will take that information and say, I know something now, even though, you know, like most of that shit is made up or, you know, heavily edited or changed.

3:54Guests: so we try to do a little bit of both. We try to give you, you know, obviously it's fun, it's humorous, you know, that's how we get you to come in. Uh, but then we'll, we'll do as many. You know, like cultural connections, but also like breaking it down to the levels of like, okay, we actually do need to talk about Green Book and, uh, you know, like some of these other things where it's just like, you know, that that's a real person.

4:20Guests: And what, what this movie was doing to them, uh, is definitely not even just like messing with how they're going to be viewed, because again, like, who's going to go back? Yeah, who's the actual person writing history there? Yeah, well, who's going to go back and double check that, right? Because again, a lot of people will see that movie and say, oh, that's an interesting story that was told by the guy who drove his, uh, It drove him around, uh, like his family made the movie and like had everything to do with it.

4:48Guests: And like, you know, Don Shirley's family had almost nothing to do with the movie, even though it is about him. So, you know, like that kind of context and additional stuff where people will watch something and then say, well, okay. you know, we really wanted to deconstruct a lot of that. So that's, that's the podcast. Cameron, tell them about your, your acting endeavors.

5:10Guests: Well, yeah, uh, like we were talking earlier, you know, I've done a series of cooking videos for like McCormick Spice and I've been a New York theater actor for, I would say about 15 years now. I'm doing a lot of theater, off Broadway theater, sketch comedy.

5:28Guests: writing sketch comedy, you know, I'm starting to get into writing films right now and stuff like that. So I'm trying to take the expertise that we've, or at least the point of view that we have on the podcast and trying to like put that into a narrative sense, trying to make some, you know, some goofy little films and hopefully I got something, something big kind of coming up this year, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

5:50Guests: And I, to Jordan's point, I feel like, you know, Yeah, the, the way we kind of educate people about race and, uh, not only race theory, but just like how we interact in America is, is like, preposterous, because I feel like it's mostly propaganda, straight up, uh, and, a lot of people, like, just kind of take that to heart, and so, like Jordan said, when they watch movies like Green Book, or when they watch movies like, you know, The Blind Side, take them as truth, And, I mean, the Blind Side, uh, lawsuit says it all where, you know,

6:28KT: Yeah.

6:29Guests: it wasn't like this for that, for Michael Oher. It wasn't like that for him. Yeah, well, to quote Michael Oher, sorry, it wasn't like that for Michael Oher. To quote Denzel in Malcolm X, this is what they do, you know. This is what they do. And we, and we're fittin to put a stop to it over here.

6:48KT: Well, I think, you know, for those that want to transport to the 1800s where there were no racists, they're going to be quite lonely. or they might Thanos snap themselves into non existence. Right.

7:00Guests: Hey, we can only hope, right?

7:04KT: Um, you know, this is like work, It's a light pack. um, but I just, and that's something that I really love. And I feel like this is going to become like an hour of just like dissecting film criticism and the film space. But I do want to give, love and Splooshies to your podcast because it isn't easy to do it.

7:24KT: And you probably already know that it's a very, predominantly white space, but it's also a very, um, I wouldn't say surface level, but it is a very, Accessible in that you won't be challenged in any sort of questionable thoughts and feelings and, you know, untested sort of beliefs that you might even have, because I think to some extent, uh, was this a seven shoulders like that white

7:49Guests: Yeah.

7:51KT: Like, I guess there's some sort of like understanding that some people might have just lived in a bubble, but it's like, babes, it's 2020. Step your pussy up. Like, it's time to learn about shit. You know about it. and I think that's, what's interesting. Cause like, like Jordan was saying, like, it's a, like that record and we're going to have a lot of fun. And then we're just going to drop 6:16 in LA and Meet the Grahams

8:12KT: on you. Like, it's just Like, you're going to get all of this proverbial beef and you're going to dissect it and digest it, even if you don't want to. And that's something that I think what's quite interesting of like, even if you don't like, or if you don't prefer the way that maybe even like Oti and I critique, you can't say that we're not reviewing the film. You know what I mean?

8:32KT: Because the layers are there and, or maybe the lack of. The layers of their, so I'm just, I'm just happy for us to continue to see what's actually there and actually call it out, you know, um, but also have fun along the way as well.

8:45Guests: Yeah, I will. I will add the secret sauce for us is that we make our show for people of color. So, yeah, like eliminate the white gaze from the equation. And like, we're having conversations exclusively with people of color. Uh, we're having conversations where, you know, like, we're not necessarily worried about what white people are going to say or think about it because I feel like that's what, you know, That's how we got here with the movies.

9:16Guests: Well, I'll add too, I'll add too that, like, I remember when, you know, we were not excited to review the American Society of Magical Negroes earlier this year.

9:27KT: I enjoyed listening to the episode though. Mm.

9:33Guests: Um, but what was crazy about it was, you know, I, I wanted to see, because I knew this movie was going to be bad on arrival. So I was waiting to see like what at least the, not necessarily the white reviewers opinion was going to be, but like just film conversation around it because right. It's a movie that employs the word Negroes in his titles. Apparently it's going to be a very black experience. So I want to see like what.

10:00Guests: What like white reviewers are going to react to in that movie and the conversation around it was so surface and so kind of like, afraid to actually touch on the things that made that movie toothless. And then when we saw it, it just felt like a natural reaction to just be like, Oh my God, this is like utter trash.

10:22Guests: It's like utter garbage and like unfounded and confusing in ways. And it was just so wild to see that like, not, not a single white reviewer was interested in like peeling back, like how destructive something like that could be. Well, and, and the problem is for a lot of those outlets, right? Whether it's a black movie, whether it's a queer movie, whether it's a movie about people with disabilities, no matter what it is, usually there's a white man on staff writing about film and then that movie comes out and they say, oh, we need to get one of those

10:56Guests: so crazy about this. You know, what can we get one? It's the same thing. It's the same thing. Can we get a black person

11:01KT: but isn't it also when the one of those is willing to be that, isn't that also part of the problem? But that's a bigger conversation shortly.

11:09Guests: I don't wanna call no names, but like I listen to the Ringer Podcast network a lot. Shout out to them, sort of, but at the same time, they kind of employ, like, the same two black people to bring in to talk about movies, and I'm like, guys, like, I, I love some of their commentary, and I love some of those, the folks that they bring on there, I love what they got to say, but it's like, the same two?

11:32Guests: Every time? They don't watch any other movies? And I think that's, again, something that we try to do on our show, is that we, we don't claim to know. Anything, you know, in the sense of like, when, when, when we're talking about, you know, Asian representation, and we're talking about Pacific Islander representation, and we're talking about, I mean, you know, any, anything that's outside of our purview, we're like, we need to find somebody to speak to this and like, speak to it appropriately, you know, and like, again, people who kind of fit into our vibe where we can have some jokes and laugh about it, but also can give us an additional context.

12:05Guests: And it's never in a way of like, well, these are your people. So you tell us about. But more so because that's, I mean, because, but that's what happens a lot of the times when, when you're in a white space is like, well, we'll just defer all of this to you and you and you, your opinion stands in place of an entire group of people

12:27KT: also you don't get the protection either, so you have to stick your neck out and be exposed in some sort of way and not be protected. and those are two very interesting sort of avenues. And even what Cameron is saying, I think it's like the flavor of the month, right? It's like, and also respectfully, I do love Gugu Mbatha-Raw, but for a time, you know what I mean? Like it's the same sort of actors that will get the

12:53KT: same sort of roles, but that's not a diss on the actors. That's a diss on people not expanding. The talent that is available. Um, and for a long time, y'all like black British actors being casted out of nowhere. And like, it's like, there are people in America as well that can play these American roles. And I sometimes wonder if it makes it easier to digest because you know, they're British. So it's not as hard hitting, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, it's an interesting sort of, um, What a place, Hey.

13:26Guests: Well, it's like, you know, it's all love right cuz like Daniel Kaluuya play the shit out of Fred Hampton Like I can't deny that right but at the same time It's like I feel like there were at least like five American actors who could have did that and did it well Okay, so I don't know if it makes it like easier to swallow. It just makes it a little like I don't know. It kind of like muddies the water just a little bit. yeah, for sure.

13:53KT: I think, a great way to segue into, uh, the Pop Out is something that's also relevant to what we're saying as well with the untitled, as far as I understand now, with the South Park creators, Matt and Trey, as well as Dave Free, uh, and Kendrick Lamar with pgLang, are you guys aware of the premise of the film? And I would like to hear. Your, your initial sort of thoughts, if you're not aware of you're, I'm sure you're already aware of the premise, right?

14:22Guests: Cam, you know what it is. It's the one with the, the guy playing the slave reenactment in the museum. Yeah. It's a little, a little Topdog/Underdog. If you're familiar with the Suzan-Lori Parks play. But, uh, yeah, I am. I'm familiar with it. I'm excited. Sort of. I'm, I'm curious because again, it never got made.

14:41Guests: Thank God. But, you know, the, uh, Civil War. Revisionist thing that the oh, uh, Confederate Game of Thrones. Yeah. Con yeah. That the Game of Thrones people were gonna do that. They were talking about at HBO that everybody was like, this was like a terrible idea.

14:58KT: hmm.

15:01Guests: Game of Thrones. It was like literally announced, like almost, I think it was like the day that Game of Thrones ended or something like that, that they were like, our next project is going to be a Civil War reenactment story. Something like that. From these creators called Confederate, and I'm like, you couldn't have picked a worse time?

15:18Guests: But then they were like, but wait, wait, wait, we got black people, there's black people over here. So it's okay, it's okay, don't worry about it. Well don't put them in danger! Uh, but that's the thing, so with this, it's kind of like, I personally, uh, and I feel like it's the same with a lot of these shows, right?

15:37Guests: So, like, South Park, The Simpsons, Family Guy, etc. Like, once you've been on for, I don't know, 30 seasons, like, the, the, the juice is kind of all the way wrung out, you know, in a lot of ways. And so I haven't watched South Park in a long time. I don't even know how much Trey Parker and Matt Stone have to do with South Park.

15:56Guests: Anymore. I really talk about it every now and then. And yeah, they're still involved in the same way. It wasn't the 90s, the same way it was in 2000s. I'd say that their movie output is, you know, they want a pretty decent track record as far as like the South Park movie and the Team America movie. Yeah, and the pair and the parody is probably the strong or the satire.

16:20Guests: I mean, is probably the strongest part of both of those movies, you know, the in the South Park movie, the satire of, like. Uh, you know, uh, I guess sanitizing culture, you know, sanitizing profanity and, uh, pop culture and things like that. and then the Team America set like satirizing the like uber patriotism of American Americans and like, kind of just like, kind of seeing like the false notes in that.

16:48Guests: And I think that they're, they're pretty good at like, like, I guess to use the English term, like taking the piss out of like those. Uh, those subjects, I would say Team America and, yeah,

17:02KT: Cause it's true. Cause I was raised Mormon. Um, and even their Book of

17:06Guests: Oh, wow.

17:07KT: Yeah, I know we don't need, but there's going to be a five hour podcast

17:10Guests: Yeah, you don't, you don't give that, you don't give that at all.

17:13KT: a throwaway, just a throwaway line. but even they're like, like, cause they didn't even need to do it because only people that were raised Mormon or Mormon people would be aware of like the actual titles, like it's not priest and stuff. They have their own. Um, They're very special. They have their own stuff. but it was like only Mormons would understand the actual titling and the references. But I think part of what you're saying is. The success is that it's the truth. Like that's why it's funny. Like the whole Barbra Streisand effect.

17:42KT: They had an Ozempic special, I think was the most recent special. They're literally crying and dying and being like, let us stop doing this. They had a streaming wars, arc as well, where they were talking about all the different sort of, streaming cables, sort of equivalents and like. Just, we need to pump out shit for everyone because everyone wants something from us, which is why you keep seeing the movie specials instead of the seasons as well.

18:05KT: But, I think in regards to this untitled project, cause I remember, Awkward Black Girl, and that was Issa's first job, like in the first episode. so I don't know if I necessarily want to see that subject matter, but I would hope that with the team that's involved, it's done in a way that is interesting and funny. And

18:26Guests: Kendrick's gonna allow, I don't think Kendrick's gonna allow for the BS. Like, he not going, especially after something like this, especially after the Pop Out and the video, like, there's no way he's gonna let them, like, tarnish their image, tarnish his image. Yeah, I mean, I feel like, you know, I, I, Everybody gets one, right? Like everybody, everybody has something or it's just kind of like, all right, that wasn't your best. And like, I'm yeah. And so, you know, I,

18:57KT: Mm-Hmm.

18:58Guests: a lot of times with stuff like this, because I mean, going back to American Society of Magical Negroes, there was even going into the movie. There was a part of me. I was like, I want to give this a chance.

19:07Guests: I want to see if they're going to do the thing. If they're going to have these conversations, if they're going to, you know, how they're going to move about it. Uh, because sometimes you hear about the thing and like, you know, Until you see it in execution, and you're like, I still don't know what the This is going to be, or how this is going to move.

19:20Guests: and, you know, like I, again, everybody involved thumbs up. Right. But like, you know, it's a thin line to walk. And specifically when we're doing something comedic and satirical, like, you know, sometimes it hits sometimes, like, you know, All right, you know, maybe you needed to workshop that just a, just a touch more, uh, to really get it to where it needed to be.

19:41Guests: But, you know, like I'm, I'm here for it. You know, I'm, I'm team Kendrick. I'm supporting, you know, whatever my man is out here doing. So if he's got, uh, got some movies and some other things come another, whatever pgLang is up to, like, let's do it. Let's see it.

19:57KT: Well, I think very quickly before we get to side A, the Pop Out, there were like comments and feedback about the Juice full review that we did, which kicked off the KT and Friends, which were referencing the rap beef. and there was commentary about like studio involvement. Because we were talking about the commentary in Juice and how he felt it could have been a bit more deeper about like character emotions. It's like, yeah,

20:18KT: Bishop's wild, but like, why? Like we didn't get that hotep, furious speech from Boyz n the Hood, which is fine. But like, obviously there was a bit more that was motivating characters. It's like, I'm tired of running, man, but there was nothing else. Like that's all Bishop said, in Juice. So I think in regards to that, I would hope that they have enough creative freedom control. to do whatever the fuck they want to do with this untitled, special South Park,

20:43Guests: Yeah.

20:44KT: that, that should be interesting.

20:48Guests: Go ahead. Go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say, you know, I mean, even with a, with a Juice situation, like, you know, stuff like that, the, the studio hip hop was still so new and still such a thing that was like a phenomenon that I'm sure there are just like, I don't know what these. Little kids from the hood want, but like Tupac is cool.

21:08Guests: And, uh, you know, we're, we're trying to put like, and their, their whole thing was like, we don't need to think about this too much, right? Like there doesn't need to be, there doesn't need to be that because what we want to see is him in the elevator. Chasing him up to the, like, that's, that's the movie, you know, that's what we're trying to get into and not trying to really psychoanalyze, like, what would drive him to this place where he just doesn't give a fuck.

21:33Guests: Right? Like, there's stuff in there that, that definitely could have been stretched out and, you know, you don't need to remake Juice. but I think it is, I think that's One of those things where, you know, when you, when you see the evolution of that kind of movie and how now, uh, you know, those characters do get a bit more unraveling than they would have, you know, back in the nineties.

21:55Guests: I think it's at least a sign that, you know, uh, black filmmakers are either doing it for themselves. And so they're not relying on studios to, you know, tell those stories. So they have the freedom to do that. Or studios again, like we're about to talk about it. If you told me that Amazon was going to have half the, the gangs of LA on stage, uh, dancing together, you know, and like Jeff Bezos was going to be getting money off of that.

22:24Guests: I'm not on my bingo card. So I'm telling you, I'm telling you the guys at Amazon were like, they came in fresh, clean suits and they had sweat them motherfuckers through before the end. It was like, Oh my God, who are they? I don't know who that is on stage. You're telling so guy won a Pulitzer, right? You said that, right? That's the guy that won the Pulitzer Prize. Wait, are you serious? What's the clown? Who's the clown guy? I don't know who this is. Is this like an In Living Color reference? I don't

22:55Guests: Yo, if anybody on the Amazon board knew anything about In Living Color, I'd actually be I would get primed right now. I'd get primed right now. If one member of the board could tell me a single sketch from In Living Color, I'd pay two years up front.

23:12KT: I was trying to find his name, but there's an executive at Amazon that is from Compton. Which is probably why you have like the interaction because you also have,

23:21KT: Kendrick's concert in France, uh, that was in 2022. I call that his horny concert because I was having a good time and then we were popping out, we were popping out in 2024. Um, but yes. Friends and lovers welcome. I really enjoyed that preamble. I just, I can talk about podcasting, film podcasting, till the sun goes down and it comes back up again, but welcome, welcome friends and lovers to Side A, the Pop Out where we chat all things, beef, hip hop, and love for, I guess, and also deciding who is an outside.

23:56KT: And I know I'm outside the culture. It's okay, guys. but thank you so much. Uh, again, I'm going to plug White People Won't Save You podcast. They have an epic extravaganza that is three hours. and I've listened to it twice, so I'm very excited to hear an update. because as far as I understand, Not Like Us had just. Come out because you had record, you had a recording, and then you had to record again.

24:22KT: So I guess where were, or even if you just wanna start from the start, I'm happy to go wherever you guys wanna go. If you wanna paint a complete picture or if you want to go from where you finished your episode, I'm, I'm just happy to go where you want to go. And I guess if you like Drake, I guess, but you know

24:38Guests: Or yeah. Well, I mean, it's, it's interesting cause that's, that's how this whole situation has moved since the beginning is like, you know, once, you know, Drake, well, I mean, it's even interesting now to, to piece it back together with information that's come out since then, because if you're going, if all things are equal, right, what we're piecing together is that Drake sent a feature request to Kendrick for the First Person Shooter song, and Kendrick was like, you know, I don't fuck with you, I don't know why you're doing that.

25:13Guests: Haha. But then still got Cole to be on it, and who, and we still don't know how or why he did Cole Fowl, nobody, we're still waiting for that information, but, you know, even if you're interpreting that as like, maybe Cole thought Kendrick was gonna be on the song too, and then he wasn't, and then it was just like, oh, it's just us?

25:33Guests: Okay, well then. Sure. Let's do that. Uh, but, you know, to the like that, to, you know, everything that came out after that, you know, it definitely feels like it's a situation where this whole time, Kendrick, I, I still maintain that Kendrick has been plotting on this since that 2014 BET cypher, uh, where he snuck a couple of subliminal disses into Drake, uh, High five. Yeah.

26:06KT: And he's in pajama clothes.

26:09Guests: Uh, so he, he's been maybe not necessarily like sitting on, on this, but he's definitely been thinking about it. Since then, and I'm with you on that. I agree. I just, I don't know how subliminal they I feel like they range. I feel like they range from like, well, sure about anybody to that is He is speaking specifically about Drizzy.

26:34Guests: Well, because, because, you know, to get a little bit into the Pop Out, the concert, right? Like, everybody's like, oh, those were all Drake disses. Like, all the way down, from every song he performed on that. Even if it was like, I didn't think about it like that. But, yeah, when you mention it, you know, and so, looking at it now.

26:55Guests: Like I think Kendrick had a game plan and where I will say the genius of all of this comes in right because this is what we this is what this is basically the the synthesis of our episode on this is that what Kendrick took into account and now I think maybe he even didn't he didn't I don't even know if he foresaw how big this Not Like Us was going to be, uh, but also just like how, how eager people were to get Drake out of the paint, because I think his, his initial plan of attack was you're too rich, you're too famous, you're too ingrained, right?

27:38Guests: Like, I'll never be able to move you out, but what I can take away from you is the one thing that you covet the most people maybe don't know it because when you go all the way back, right? Like Drake started as a backpack rapper. And I don't think a lot of people remember the early mixtape days where he was like, Comeback Season.

27:57Guests: Yeah, he was he a very much. So Phonte from Little Brother, right? Like bit that whole style, but also I think people, because they may not be totally tapped in K-Os, uh, who is, uh, a really big rapper in Canada, right? Was also a rapper singer. Yeah, but like,

28:22KT: listening

28:24Guests: I'm sorry, my brain is like, I just had a huge flashback of that, that blue CD, the blue album, electric something or whatever, which again, Drake, Drake is buying all of these styles, right?

28:34Guests: He's doing a lot of the rapping, singing, like all of this stuff, right? He's taking from it and like, again, K-Os was the big Canadian rapper before Drake came out. And so, like, That's what he, when you, when you, when you take it all away, right? Like, what he has always secretly wanted, and you can kind of psychoanalyze him, you know, on a couple of levels, like, he is, he is desperate for acceptance.

28:58Guests: He wants to be accepted, you know, in the black community. He wants to be accepted. as an emcee, like a rapper's rapper like he wants the respect of, you know, not only his peers, but you know, the people who came before him. Uh, he definitely desperately wants to be accepted by women, uh, or at least desired by women, uh, and that informs a lot of his Strange reactions and relationships with them.

29:21Guests: and he, he definitely, like, wants to purvey a level of authenticity, right? You know, even though we know that all of this is an act. and so, What's funny is I feel like he fell into less and less authenticity as he went on. I mean, honestly, I feel like the whole act was very much an act. You know, from get go from like, uh, well, but if you go, so go back, so go back to the mixtape Drake though.

29:48Guests: Like sure. Sure. That was, you know, hit that and Nothing Was the Same Drake. I think we're probably the purest distillations of like, this is me. Right? Sure. Sure. But that's, that's why I like that project so much. That's why I like Nothing Was the Same so much because it does feel like it comes from a genuine place and like aspiring to that.

30:11Guests: You know, that acceptance, literally to the point where Jay Z's on the last track of that album. But, but I think he realized, this ain't enough. This, this, this has a, this has a ceiling. I will remain here if I, if I don't switch it up or try to, you know, get into a different lane. And so, when he did that, cause it's, it's crazy, listen to it, right? Listen to those songs. Where he's like, I can't believe, you know, she did that to me, you know, like, I love that girl, you know,

30:42KT: like a down on his luck sort of guy,

30:44Guests: yeah, you know, I'm in the club drinking alone by myself and the VIP, you know, because she hurt me so bad, you know what I mean? And that, to, to, You know, like she's going to be begging me to come back and I'm a slam the door in her face. I hate women. You know what I mean? Like I'm,

31:02KT: unless you're, unless you're from the young women's basketball team

31:08Guests: but, but again, well, but even that, right? Like if you track that whole thing again, that's, that's his clear. One, like, that, his obsession with Serena and his obsession with, Rihanna, right? Like, I think you can put those things in a triangle. Where what he wants the most Okay, I'm Illuminati Jordan over here.

31:32Guests: Hey! What he wants the most What he wants the most is not even to have a relationship with a Rihanna or a Serena, But he wants to be in a room full of successful men. And he wants them to walk in and say, I want that one. He's a pick me. He wants them to be, I want, I want the most successful, the most powerful women to want me specifically over all the other men.

32:00Guests: And so like when he sees A$AP Rocky with Rihanna, he loses his mind. When he sees a Reddit guy with Serena, he loses his mind because he's like, but me, like what he could have had me and you chose somebody else. Well, look at, look at how, go ahead.

32:16KT: I just want to say something quickly, just so we can pick up on it later, because I know, I know you're about to dive in because I know nothing about Drake, if I'm being honest, but, I think it's something interesting because it, it, it is a common sort of topic that is being spoken on now and just in general about Drake wanting to be accepted and wanting to fit in. And I kind of feel like he wants to position himself above. Other people, that's

32:42KT: kind of, cause even the way you're saying Jordan of him being in the room and wanting to be picked, obviously very pick me, but that doesn't feel like someone that's trying to blend in and get to know the people behind the culture. It feels like I just want to pluck this for today. and, and take on this sort of costume, but I'll just leave that as a bookmark, but you, you go where you want to go, Cameron.

33:02Guests: Well, I was, I feel like it's more, it's more, I feel like it's more covetous than that. It's more like I want to have, right. Look at his behavior after he was on that song, or I guess. That's Rihanna's song, so Work. So, uh, Matt, like, uh, remember that, and like, how you could see it in his face, you could see it in his body language, how happy he was that A, that was a hit, B, that was like a great song that he happened to be on with Rihanna, who he like, again, coveted.

33:34Guests: Deeply. And then

33:37KT: I just want to pick on that, that he just happened to be on. So are we saying that he didn't contribute? Okay. Okay. I was just like, how, how deep are we going into? Okay.

33:46Guests: No, let's just You're right, you're right. No, let's get serious. That's what we came here for. But that is, that is like I mean, he obviously worked that hard to get to that point where he could be on a Rihanna song. And Rihanna's like, that's at her height. It's still her height, technically, because she hasn't released any music since

34:05KT: she's asking GloRilla to drop an album.

34:10Guests: and again, like, there's also the latching on. I mean, so post Rihanna, you know, now we're living in the era of Sexyy Red and like, It's so hilarious that right after the Pop Out, right after the beef happened, his first single bet is like, with Sexyy Red, and it just tanks. It just, it tanks harder than the BBL Drizzy

34:31KT: stimulus package, bro. It's the Drake stimulus package.

34:35Guests: Yeah, well guess what? I think that paid out, bro. I think those checks ain't coming out no more. Because the way that tanks, and Sexyy Red's on top right now. I mean, not, not even. Not due to me and, you know, not due to my listens at all, but,

34:48KT: Tell us you have a data farm for Sexyy Red only Cameron

34:52Guests: uh, you know, if I move the camera just a little bit to the right, you're gonna see my big MAGA hat sitting in the back over there. Uh, but, I mean, the way he like, kind of, I feel like it's like a, almost like a vampire a little bit of like, you know. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, like, Rihanna's at the top. I've got to get there when she's there, right? Or Nikki's at the top. I got to get there, and you know, that's easier to attain because they're on the same label.

35:21Guests: But then, like, Sexyy Red's on top. So I definitely got to jump on that feature. And you know for a fact that Drake probably recorded that Sexyy Red feature, like, months and months ago. It was probably setting a drop in an era, in a world. Where this beef never occurred. And he, well, and then he goes back and he does the BBL Drizzy part, which he probably re recorded just to make

35:40KT: What are our thoughts on that, by the

35:42Guests: Does him rapping over that or the

35:46KT: no, no. no. Like the choice of, because you know, even The Heart Part 6, a lot of the sort of gotcha lines that Drake had in there, ghostwriter or otherwise were literally off Twitter and Reddit. Like.

35:58Guests: 100%.

36:00KT: a lot of it was there and all of them like, Oh, you need to like reclaim this by rapping over the BBL

36:06Guests: But that's exactly what he did. That's exactly what he thought he was gonna do. He thought he was gonna go and it's like, ha ha ha, cute meme, right? And I'm not gonna let it get me, so I'm gonna rap over it because I, that's my game. And it was for a little bit of like subverting the arrow shot at him. It was like, nah, you know what? I'm already on top of it. I love BBL Drizzy, right? Those superpowers get neutralized though, right? Like I think he,

36:30KT: only watch in silence. Yeah.

36:33Guests: can see him going through the different stages, right? Like initially, he's like, all right, you know, I'm about to beat Kendrick's ass. Like he doesn't know what's about to happen. I'm, I'm going to do this, you know, pushups. All right. You know, so I'm officially calling them out, even though, again, there's a, there's a leak and there's another leak and then there's like the final remastered version. So he had to like demo test his diss track to finally get it. Right. to a place where he thought it was acceptable.

36:59KT: I want to do my hipster thing. I was there when it was called drop and give me 50 pushups. Yeah.

37:08Guests: Yeah, he's puffin his chest out in the beginning and then, you know, he's got Akademiks hyping him up and like all this other bullshit goin on and then, you know, Euphoria comes out and he's trying to like, Deflect off that, you know, but immediately he's on the defensive, right?

37:21Guests: Immediately. He's having to all, all of the things that Kendrick says in that record, like hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, just picking out. I'm just like little. And like, he says, Hey, this is a friendly fade. Let's keep it that way. Like, we don't have to go any further than what's happening right here. You know, if you don't want to craziest thing, that's the craziest thing about Drake's tracks on in this beef is that every time there's a Drake track, it's It's got an apology in there somewhere, or it's got a, it's got a, let's, let's, hey man, we ain't gotta, we ain't gotta really fight.

37:53Guests: We ain't gotta really punch at each other. Like, honestly, what Euphoria is literally attack, attack, attack, Family Matters is, Hey man, Hey man, like, okay, I'm trying to swerve on this one. I'm trying to swerve on that one. And then,

38:07KT: You don't think, you don't think Family Matters was on the offensive? Because that's where you did the slave line and the Money Trees line.

38:13Guests: Family Matters is on the offensive, but it's crazy because I, so I've listened, I went back. Yeah. And to prepare for this to listen to everything again, uh,

38:22KT: he said, learned Okay. Friends and lovers.

38:26Guests: he won the whole track is, is done now, right? Because like every thing he had to say, refuted, refuted, refuted, refuted, like, it's you listen to it now and it's just like, yeah, this is just empty now because there's nothing all the, all the heat that he has is in that second verse for other people. And really the only things that, that hit.

38:50Guests: Are the Rick Ross things because even with A$AP Rocky, he's like, okay, so why don't you like, I don't know, go home and have sex with Rihanna and like model for GQ and it's like, yeah, that sounds great. Like, I'll do that. I will be.

39:05KT: But it's like, I think people, people have, well, I've forgotten about it already because you have Rihanna like rapping to GloRilla to A$AP like standing there like a dad with like hair clips in his hair. Like that's all I'm thinking about when I think about those two. but I just, I feel like I just, I got extra powers because I feel like Family Matters was really the only thing, unless you're like a super duper Drake fan.

39:28KT: Fan Family Matters was really the only thing that you'd be like, you know, this is like the most that he's tried to rap in a long time.

39:36Guests: Well, I'll say that. Yeah, reinvigorated. Yeah, it's his best song out of the, out of the

39:40KT: yeah. And now people are discounting it and I'm like, I feel power. Like I feel stronger now.

39:47Guests: at that moment, at that moment, right. Well, because he drops it, right? And it's like, okay, you know, this is, this is where he's like, his red button, you know, situation immediately after he was his red button immediately after Kendrick's like, yeah, let's shut all that shit down. Uh, but that's the problem because then The Heart Part 6 comes out and like, Hey, I remember the moment when Heart Part 6 came out and I was like, well, before we get to Heart Part 6 though, because let's, let's go back just briefly for a second.

40:15Guests: Because we didn't even talk about 6:16 where again, Kendrick is like, I'm telling you. He says it in there. He says it in there,

40:24KT: am I? If I? don't go to war, so

40:28Guests: telling you just, yes, just, you know, not even just all of the, there's a mole in your camp and all that

40:33KT: That was before Meet the Grahams as well.

40:35Guests: yeah, he's just like, I'm, I'm telling you right now that I'm giving you an out. I know, I know every, I know you're about to drop a video. I probably already heard the song. Like, I, I'm just, I'm just giving you a warning. This morning because that's the thing he does it in the morning and then Family Matters comes out. So, you know, afternoon, you know, he knew that's the day that this is going to drop.

41:00Guests: Somebody had given him that information. So he purposefully puts that out that morning to say, Hey, brother, last chance. Right? No? Okay. I'm just, you know, you can't say I didn't try to give you a heads up because then Family Matters comes out, Meet the Grahams comes out, but then we get to Not Like Us, and this is where Drake is fully spiraling because now he's just like, wait, what? I do this. I'm the one that does the back to back and the, and what's happening?

41:33KT: But I'm

41:33Guests: know, that's good. Good.

41:36KT: No, you go.

41:36Guests: I was just gonna say, he's full, he's full Mr. Krabs spiraling meme. Like, he's just like, I, where am I? Well, it's crazy because like, Not Like Us just like, arrives like a bomb. First of all, the beat is just insane. The beat is simple. It's like alluding to, you know, that synth, that LA synth, you know, you hear it. It's indelible, instantly. The problem is, Drake hasn't been on his musical game last eight years. Easy. Easy. You could call it eight

42:09KT: so that's my thing. My placeholder is Affion Crockett because he did like skits of Drake back, back, back in the day. And I just kept that. I kept Poetic Justice. I kept Fuckin' Problems. And I just, I didn't check for Drake. Like, unless it was like super, super, uh, popular, I wasn't really checking for

42:29Guests: two songs that are ever on together, right?

42:32KT: the, apparently he did like an interlude or something didn't he? On Drake's

42:36Guests: On, on, yeah. He did the Buried Alive. Oh, yeah.

42:39KT: Yeah. But I just, I just never, I just never really caught up with him and I didn't really care. Like I didn't get into like the radicalization of like incels and like him not being that sort of Loving women. Like I never, cause then there was all this commentary and I really appreciate all the commentary, but I was like, bruv, you guys are struggling. And I was like, I'm glad I've just been over here listening to my Kendrick albums and I know nothing about what's going on there.

43:07Guests: It's, it's interesting because again, like when you, when you look at, I guess tying it all back when you look at Kendrick's a poster, right? Like this whole battle comes down to Drake feeling like, you know, I'm, I, I want to be the top dog, you know, I'm, I'm out here trying to prove that I'm the best of the best and like, you know, people saying that I've fallen off and like, you look at his, like Kendrick, Cameron was saying his output over the last couple of years, I forget what the record was called that came out.

43:39Guests: So Before the 21 record, but that was his like, this is my dance record. Like this is by like, like, uh, lo fi EDM, like kind of the black and white ones. Scorpion. No,

43:53Guests: no, no, no. This was the one. No, this was, there was a record he put out. I don't even know what it's called, uh, but I just remember it, I remember it coming out and people being like, oh, this is kind of mid, and then I remember Renaissance dropped, like, a little bit after that, people were like, oh, shit, like this, you're, oh, you're talking about, oh, man,

44:15KT: Drake fans are yelling right now.

44:18Guests: sticky, and they can yell, they can yell in silence. I think it's whatever one has Sticky on it, yes, yes, and that's, but it's like, uh, Honestly, Nevermind. And you're right. You, uh, Renaissance came out like a month after that and completely eclipsed it, obliterated it because he was going for the same thing. He was like, I want it. I want y'all to dance, right? That's, that's where we go on with this. And Beyonce was like, y'all can dance for like an hour and a half straight for my record.

44:49Guests: But what he, what Drake is bad about though, is that. Beyonce can do that. Beyonce can do Renaissance, she can do Cowboy Carter, Kendrick can come out, and he can do his whole discography, you know, which is just switching up, changing from record to record. Drake He's stuck in the lane that he created for himself, and any time he tries to step outside of that, people are like, Boo! Go back to the

45:14KT: Keep making me dance, waving my hands and there won't be no threat.

45:18Guests: I've been saying this for years. I've been saying this for years. Drake has been serving up gruel, and y'all been eating it up, like Oliver Twist talking about, Please, uh, can I have some more? And it's not happening, it's, it's, it's, it's been garbage for so long. It's been the same track, right? It's been the same, like, Uh, flow. Honestly, he only got like two flows. I don't want to get into like

45:42KT: Are they his

45:44Guests: That's what I was gonna say. You're not thinking about, you're not discounting all the ones that he's stolen, like his UK one, or his, you know, all the different Patois and stuff that he does. And I think that's the thing, he's, he desperately, I think he's, he, over the last couple of years, he's realized that the clock is ticking, and he's desperately trying to find a way to maneuver himself into a new space, but every time he tries, people just force him back into the box.

46:10Guests: Meanwhile, he's looking at Kendrick, and he's like, why, why can't I? you know, like he's, he's trying again, he's trying to pick holes in Mr. Morale. Cause he's just like, you know, if I made a record like that,

46:21KT: mother, I, oh my God, I just made the connection. You fucking idiot pussy. Oh, shut up.

46:29Guests: but it's true. It's true. Other people, I would say just other people's work in general are usually rooted in something rooted in some sort of like, like Beyonce's Renaissance. What would you say is rooted in her trying to revive disco culture. Create a safe space for queer people and the ball scene and trying to like, actually honor something, you know, Kendrick's music is trying to honor something about his, his, uh, Compton upbringing, his, you know, maybe gang affiliated, sure. But like, you know, that's where he came from. That's what his life was from.

47:05Guests: Drake has always been making music about like wanting to be somebody. Drake's music is perfect for people who want to play dress up. You know, Drake's music is perfect as a Halloween costume. It's always like, I'm dabbling here. Like, Views is like, I'm dabbling in the Patois. You know, More Life is, I'm dabbling in Caribbean music. Or, Honestly, Nevermind is, I'm dabbling in dance music. Ever since Nothing Was the Same, it's always been some kind of Halloween costume he's putting on.

47:33KT: So you're

47:34Guests: I would even say He went to Atlanta, went to Memphis,

47:37KT: so you're saying.

47:37Guests: exactly!

47:38KT: You're saying Drake is like Pam from Archer that goes to Jamaica and gets braids. ha

47:43Guests: gets and gets the braids and comes back. It like, what is it? Hey dog. What is it? The

47:46KT: ha ha

47:48Guests: is it? The, it's the braids. Well, but I think that that all, everything we've been saying, I think kind of distills Kendrick's strategy, which is like you, I know what you desperately want and that's for Yeah.

48:01Guests: You know, the Snoop Dogs of the world and the Q-Tips of the world and the Phontes of the world and all of these people to look at you and say, Drake is one of the goats who's one of the all time, even after. All of the, the ghostwriting allegations and they were, I mean, again, people, people not connecting the dots, go back to Frank Ocean's Blonde, go back to the Solo (Reprise) with Andre 3000, where he's talking about, you know, I, I, I didn't know that people weren't writing their own bars.

48:28Guests: Was I working too hard? Was I doing too much? Crazy. Crazy. I remember, I remember when that one came out and I was like, damn, dude, that bar has Drake's name written on it. It's just like, I mean, it's obviously not only Drake, and he's not obviously, he's trying to be, you know, not specific there, but you can only think of Drake because he's the only person who's, like, outright, you know, with his getting ghostwriters in and whatever, 50 names on a, 50 names on the writers. Yeah, and it's

48:58Guests: for a rap song with like him and two other people on it. Like, what are you doing? What? That's crazy.

49:04Guests: Well, and people and people are again, people, people are like, why is Kendrick doing this? Why is he going so hard? But I think that's the crux of it is because when you go to Kendrick's side, he's like you, wait, they're saying you and me are the same because that's crazy because not only do I write all of my own verses, not only Am I not just simply putting it on for, for Compton in my city, but like, I am, I am deeply rooted in this. Like,

49:37Guests: I have a foundation in this, in, in the music scene, the rap scene. Like, it's not even Drake, you know, was an actor and then he became a rapper or whatever. But like, when you look at Kendrick's journey, like, he is a, This is it. This is all he's ever wanted to do. And, like, he has put every ounce of himself into this journey to getting to where he is.

49:59Guests: And when you even go back to the Good Kid, Mad City days, or the Section.80 days, and you just see videos of him, uh, you can tell, one, like, he's focused. Right, but to like, you know, he's there's there's a video that was circulated of him performing in the Best Buy and like, you know, but it's like,

50:17KT: yeah.

50:18Guests: he knew he knew he was going to get here because there was nowhere else to go right? Like he did. There wasn't a plan B. There wasn't anything else. I have to do this. I have to get here. And so when he sees Drake on the other side, who not only had all this help from all these different writers, but also is like, I think in Kendrick's mind, taking this for granted, you know what I mean?

50:43Guests: Like, just assuming that he is gonna be here because, well, you know, this is the thing to do, and like, I've kind of been on top, but like, Kendrick, again, like, works, and, and the crazy thing about it, right, is like, They are in a lot of ways, the antithesis right?

51:00Guests: Like Drake is out here constantly all the time on everything trying to be in everybody's like, like I'm saying, he's trying to be on everybody's hit records. He's trying to be, you know, like he's trying to position himself in a way where he feels like he can't be removed from the culture because he's got his hands in so many things. Kendrick is, you know, At the park with his kids. Uh, he's, he's, you know, the

51:24KT: some hoe shit. I got a son to

51:26Guests: You know, he's, he's out here, you know, and through this whole thing, you know, Drake posting pictures. I'm unbothered. Drake posting memes. Drake doing all this. We didn't see Kendrick. Until the Compton City College graduation ceremony, where he just happened to roll onto stage to do a speech. That was the first time in months we had seen him

51:50Guests: do anything. He just showed up to do that, you know, and like, wasn't the whole time. Just his, his, all the social media was just. A link to the song and that was it and then he just kept it moving and you can tell the difference where again, he says, like, you're the only one who likes being famous.

52:08Guests: Right? Like, this is your core identity. I, I'm okay. I have people who love me. I have a community who loves me. I have a family that loves me. You know what I mean? Like, I have surrounded myself with all of these things that that bring me joy and bring me a sense of wholeness. You have surrounded yourself with people who hate you.

52:30Guests: Uh, and, and sycophants and people who will leave you the second that things get tough. And I think that's, I think that's what Kendrick maybe underestimated about the situation is that, like, I think he thought he was going to take away Drake's credibility, you know, in terms of, like, hip hop. But now, with this record, this video, the Pop Out, like, Drake is not cool anymore the way that he used to be. Like, when you see videos

52:56KT: You're dead.

52:58Guests: I mean, I see dead people as like, actually a wild thing to start that record with when he really did like, end him. Well, I'm saying, when you see videos of middle schoolers at like, parties requesting Not Like Us and dancing to the song,

53:16KT: Good.

53:17Guests: know what I told you, I told you, when we were talking on the podcast, I was like, the second it was in the NBA playoffs, I was like, it's a wrap. It's so, it's a wrap. It was over, it was over when it played on the NBA playoffs, cause that's real, that's real hip hop, that's like, I feel like that's the equivalent to like, rap radio now, is like, where is it playing in pop culture, like, where am I gonna see it outside, you know, Spotify or streaming services or whatever.

53:44Guests: Well, even, even July 4th, right? Like, Drake has his party, and he's showing pictures of all the people who came out to, you know, hang out with him, so he can kind of be like, Hey, like, celebrities still like me, like, I'm still hanging out with famous people, like, I'm actively With Camila Cabello? Yeah. but then Kendrick drops the Not Like Us video, and like Everybody's in the video, right?

54:11Guests: And even I don't know if y'all peeped it, Thundercat and Steve Lacy are in the video. Like, there's a bunch of people in there that you probably didn't even notice who are just in the crowd, like, hanging out, you know, like, people have definitively chosen sides in a way that's just like, Oh, you know, there's, there's a couple people still over.

54:31Guests: It's like, it's like, uh, this might be just for you, Cameron, but it's like when, when King Lowe's was, was seen with Diddy and it's just like, Oh, that's all you got left? That's two? That's a team? Cause literally Yeah. Cause it used to be the parties with everybody. Everybody was at the party. And now Yeah, I was about to say, with Diddy, that was the whole, like, Vanity Fair parties, the pre Oscar parties, with, like, the cream of the crop of, like, hip hop, or, like, even hip hop businessmen, you know, Jay Z, and, like, all the top people, blah, blah, blah.

55:08Guests: And now it's just, like, everybody. I mean, deservingly so, but it's nobody. But I think Drake is getting to that point where it's just like, it's not really cool to be single, Drake. It's not really cool to be on a Drake record. It's not really cool to have Drake on your record. Like, it's not really moving anything for you anymore. The stimulus package is a wrap! It's a wrap, I'm telling you. It's pennies on the dollar.

55:30KT: but that I guess that, and we've kind of already been talking about it. and even when, you know, you guys were giving your thoughts on Juice, I think it was you, Jordan, that was talking about like this, like hip hop being melded into, I guess, popular mainstream sort of culture. And then now you see the contrast as to where we are now, it's artistry versus industry,

55:51KT: right? And, you know, no matter which rabbit hole you go down, I think it's quite clear that Drake has a very consistent output and it might be deliberate. Because of certain sort of contracts that he might've signed, right? Like, Manz is always in our face, unfortunately. And we're always going to see him. But that doesn't denote to I guess, like Kendrick said, how the culture feeling or what the realness is, right?

56:16KT: But it still becomes that sort of, an emblem for people that are outside of hip hop being like, Oh yeah, you've got Drake. Drake's your guy, right? Like you guys are doing great over there in hip hop because Drake's there, right?

56:29Guests: Yeah, well, I would say in terms of numbers, it's like, what is it? Five, five full albums since Section.80, right? And yeah, in 12 years. And then for Drake, it's like 11, 12 albums in 12 years. And How many of them do you feel, feel? Right? Right. Cause even Kendrick would be like, yeah, DAMN. was for, it was for funsies, you know, somehow it was the one that won him a Pulitzer, crazy, you know, uh, but the ones around it are just like indelible works. My first one, like my last one, that's a classic.

57:08Guests: You don't have one. You don't got one,

57:11KT: Let your core audience stomach that and tell them where'd you get your abs from.

57:16Guests: I make music, you make music that pacify him. I make music that satisfy him. Like it's, it's for real. Like I occasionally I put like a Drake song on a playlist or something like that, you know? And honestly, it's, I know, I know. I know. And they've taken them off immediately. Right. But it's,

57:33Guests: like, honestly, I'll be honest. The ones that I put on there are like the ones where he's striving the most for like hip hop authenticity. The ones where he's like actually trying to rap, like. the ones that I like even are like Knife Talk from Certified Lover Boy where it's like, you know, Oh, snap.

57:48Guests: He's got he's got bars. I mean, they might be 21 Savage's bars, but they're, they're bars, you know, or, you know, like the stuff on Nothing Was the Same where it's like, Oh, this is an aspirational dude who's like hit the heights. That's kind of cool. But like, Kendrick has So many songs where you can pull real experiences from and you can relate to these real experiences and not necessarily the fact that you can relate to them is the exciting part, but the fact that there's something grounded in there that I'm like, alright man, like, you talking some real stuff, you talking some real things that people are going through.

58:24Guests: Drake has always been like, don't you aspire to this? Don't you want this? Don't you want to be me? Diamonds on the covers.

58:32KT: There's a storytelling aspect that Kendrick has, and you know, even from Good Kid, Mad City, which I would say like that's where I would probably have listened to, like, you know how you like watch TV shows and you remember like the first and second season the most sort of thing? Good Kid, Mad City, but that, That's exactly the thing because, and it's okay, I'm, I'm, I'm having my little tangents, but isn't

58:55KT: it serendipitous or destiny or whatever you want to call it, but isn't it serendipitous that Kendrick's parents moved from Chicago to Compton? Because that's the Kendrick we have today. That's wild to think about. I'm just like, man, maybe the world and the universe is doing something right. But going back to Good Kid, Mad City, like if you're about it, or if you are who you are, you don't need to front in any way, because even on Good Kid,

59:22KT: Mad City, a lot of it was the conflict of him being and being surrounded by those that were in that life. And he wasn't Right being and succumbing to particular peer pressure and, you know, I'm sure we, we all dream about a Sherane every now and then,

59:38KT: but it's, it's really painting a picture of what his life is and that sort of conflicted image that he has, which again, we've talked about a lot is that conflicting sort of, jewel coin of hip hop at the moment where you have Drake that wants to, you know, Put on like a Toosie Slide sort of aesthetic and be, I'm, it was a Mob Ties or whatever he has, like he wants to

60:04Guests: The song that he didn't write? Yes.

60:06KT: like, he's so, he's so fucking hard, bro. Like,

60:09Guests: the way you said that, the, the song he didn't write. Well, it's it, I mean, I think that's what's so crazy about it, right? So if you, if you take it back and you break it down, people don't really give Kanye shit. People give Diddy shit for other reasons, but not, yeah, for the, for the songwriting because they were upfront and basically, I mean, Diddy, I don't write rhymes.

60:30Guests: I write checks, right? Like, yeah. If that's the kind of time you're on, because we all know, Beyonce's not writing all of her songs. Taylor Swift claims that she's writing all of her songs, but I'm sure she's getting some help here or there. Go back to the Motown days, you know, that was a whole machine where people were just singing the songs that were being given to them.

60:49KT: Isn't the whole bravado of hip hop that they did it themselves, but singers are a bit different. Oh, you don't,

60:55Guests: Oh, it is different, but that's the thing. But, but people have accepted that that's the Kanye method, is that he has people come in and they do the whole thing and, you know, he comes out and some of it's his, some of it's other people's, you know, and people have talked openly about, Oh, I wrote this for Kanye or I did that for Diddy or, you know, whoever.

61:14Guests: I mean, even Jay Z's come up front saying like, you know, Still D.R.E., you know, one of Dre's hugest songs. Both verses, the Dre and the Snoop verse, are written by Jay Z, like, and that's common knowledge now. Again, like, being not afraid of just being like, hey, this is, this is what it is. Whereas, I, I think what you're getting to, Jordan, is that Drake's putting it on.

61:38Guests: Drake has, well, he's been, he's been in denial the whole time. He's been like, hey. You know, even, even, I forget what, what song it was. Oh, it was, it was in the Duppy Freestyle where he was telling Pusha T, you know, like, you know, my, my lyrics did it, my hooks did it, you know, like, okay, so maybe he wrote it for me, but like, he, he doesn't have a hit record, you know, I do, cause I, cause I'm me, right?

62:02Guests: So, like, even if somebody else wrote the verse, you know, it's only successful because it came from me. Uh, and that's one of those things where it's just like, again, Kendrick's looking across and saying. Bro, come on like you we we all know we we all know a ghost writer but a rapper with a ghost writer What the fuck happened, right?

62:25Guests: Like, it's, it is one of those sacrosanct things where it's just like biting. That's a no, no ghost writers. That's a no, no. Like, you know, all of these things are kind of unwritten rules in hip hop where it's kind of like, all right, you know, we'll let certain things slide and other things slide. But he's basically Milli Vanilli, you know, in that sense of just like, all right, but, but if it's that, then say that, because I think a You know, people wouldn't have an issue with Drake if it was common knowledge and open that he was now he would never be In those greatest of all time conversations, you know, he could never be top five rapper, you know, if he was not writing his own rhymes, but he could still be 100,000,000 pop star, you know, like doing all of that, like that lane would still be available to him.

63:12Guests: And I don't think people would necessarily have the same problems they do with him where if he's coming on. If he, if he was just honest about, you know, Hey, you know, I had a little help here or there and like, you know, I kind of collaborated on, on records with, with people because he himself will then come out and say, well, you know, I, I wrote for Kanye and I wrote for, you know, these other people.

63:32Guests: And it's not even that that's the craziest thing, right? It's not even that Drake doesn't have talent because once again, you go all the way back to the mixtape days. Drake can rap. Drake can sing. He can carry a melody. You know what I mean, like, I wouldn't say he's a great singer, but like, he's able to do the singing, you know, enough that, like, it kind of, so like, he's got talent.

63:55Guests: He definitely has an ear for melody and beats and hooks and like, all of that stuff. Like, he's got that in his repertoire, but when you, when you compare him to a Kendrick, he's definitely got a lot of work. You know, or just any anybody on that level and when you look at him and even in this, even in this whole situation, right? We know he wrote The Heart Part 6 because it was terrible.

64:18Guests: We know, we know he wrote those bars because who else would write if I was touching young girls, I would have been arrested by now. Crazy. I mean, I, I don't want to

64:33KT: then you have the greatest hits of predators. Like you just have all the pictures

64:39Guests: know it's like, his team is like literally just like playing, playing, playing, playing, playing. You know, again, I don't want to spend too much time on The Heart Part 6 because I feel like it's a give up track. He literally wrote his own, like, I'll give up. Sorry. Anyway, I don't. I don't even want to do this no more. How, in the art of rap beef, even if you lose it, you don't want to say like, dawg, I'm, I don't want to play no more. I don't even want to play no more. He was

65:03KT: that was, that was his 7 Minute Drill. Like cause that

65:06Guests: keep calling me a pedophile, then I don't want to rap with you anymore. And it's just like, bro, what? What? You're calling me a domestic abuser. So, you know, if we're doing this back and forth, then like, Yeah, we gonna go. And so it's done. You're not, you're not like, you don't get to say we done. I say you done. Like that's, well, That's crazy.

65:28KT: and no one said Millie Bobby Brown. You did.

65:31Guests: you. Can you put her name in your mouth? Like, like, that's. That's crazy. That's the, that's the thing

65:36KT: Oh my God. I just made the connection.

65:40Guests: here's the crazy part. Right. That's crazy. Because this is what people, this is what people don't understand, right? Everybody's like, again, man, Kendrick, like, Not Like Us, came out a month ago, like, why? He's, he's doing the Pop Out, he's doing the video, he's doing all this. When you, when you talk.

65:57KT: Mm hmm.

65:58Guests: When you ask for the fade,

66:00KT: Mm hmm.

66:01Guests: you don't get to decide when it's over. The person beating your ass is the one that's gonna say, I've had enough. I was about to say, like, it's a commandment in America, I guess. Talk shit, get hit. Like, for real.

66:15Guests: Like, you talk shit. Right? But you can't, you can't say, you can't say, oh, well, you know, I, not even I take it back, but just like, this isn't fun anymore. Like, I don't want to, I I, I, I did ask to fight you publicly, but now that we're fighting in public, and I've been hit a couple times, I actually would not like to fight anymore.

66:33Guests: We, we, you're fighting now. I wish we would stop. Please stop. I wish it would stop. You're, you're already in the fight. You're a big punch. Yeah. Already you are. You know what I mean? Like, you can't, now's not the time to actually say I've had a change of heart, you know? And so. Even to think that he's sensed, I feel like it's a, it's like an ego thing for Drake. It's like, I'm Drake. I can say when this ends. I am the biggest. record seller of all time or whatever, whatever. I

66:56KT: I'm a war general, idiot. Shut up. What a dumb, what a dumb fuck. Anyway,

67:02Guests: What a dummy for real. What a

67:05KT: stupid. But I just like, I don't know if you guys had like, when you were playing like with your cousins and stuff growing up as kids. And like, your cousin will just call their mom or like your auntie fat. And it's like, what are you doing?

67:18KT: And the auntie will come over and like, whack you and just like, shut up, stop talking and they just keep getting whacked. And it's like, are you shut up? Like, I think Drake's just that kid. He just doesn't have in his brain to like, just stop, just be quiet, sit down and be humble. Like no one, no one needs to see you get beaten further than this.

67:40Guests: But in this version, But in this version, we want to see him get it.

67:45KT: Oh, yes. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

67:47Guests: yeah, it's, it's kind of weird, right? It's like, you talk a huge game. Imagine, imagine if like, and we can relate this to movies even, imagine if Steven Spielberg, every time he put out a movie he was like, and this movie gonna be the best of all time, I'm telling you, watch, watch, watch, it's gonna be better than Martin Scorsese, it's gonna be better than Spike Lee, it's gonna be better than any other movie you'll ever see, right?

68:08Guests: Imagine if he said that every time, like, imagine if he just like, had a copy of Inception and he spat on it, like, in the commercial and was like, hey guys, The Fabelmans is coming out, can't wait to see you there, right? And then, When Martin Scorsese drops whatever he drops or whenever Christopher Nolan drops whatever he drops.

68:30Guests: And it does better. You would say to Steven Spielberg, you shouldn't have talked smack. You shouldn't have talked smack. Why did you even have a DVD copy of Inception to spit on in the first place? Like, why did you do all this stuff in the first place if you didn't expect that you was gonna get smacked?

68:45KT: And this is like, cause it's fun on Twitter when people are showing like tweets or like stuff on like the Drizzy subreddit. It's fun seeing that and I think I was

68:53KT: so hype, after, Like the Pop Out, not even the Not Like Us video. And I went to the Drizzy subreddit and I was like, Oh no, no, it's like, I'm losing brain cells. It's like, I hate to like get out of this particular area. But that's also the thing, because they keep saying like, I don't like to buy into this too much. Cause it's always, you know, as they say on wax or whatever, but they're like, Kendrick's like stringing this out. Like, and it's like, Drake does the same thing.

69:20KT: And also, even if we ignore that. Since The Heart Part 6, Drake has continued to talk shit, do his subliminal, like if I catch flight, it's going to be direct, you know, like, that's what Kendrick said, just come straight for him. Because even if you look at the trajectory of the beef, it makes sense the way Kendrick laid it out. But once he got straight into Not Like Us, all of the proverbial allegations, he's saying all of the words, he's saying pedophile, he's saying all of that.

69:47KT: And Drake's just not leaving it alone. It's like the only time I'm quoting Drake is when I'm like mocking him and he did it in the, what was it, Family Matters, like you're dead. It's like, you're triple dead. Shut up.

69:59Guests: Well, here's here's what's what's fascinating to watch because I also have dipped my toe into the Drizzy subreddit and some other places.

70:07KT: Are we downvoting each other? Yes.

70:13Guests: what it what it appears to be because because this is what Drake is doing now. Right? Like, like, like I was saying, he's going through the multiple stages.

70:19Guests: So once we got to Not Like Us, but he was spiraling, then he then he was in the, uh, All right, you know what? Like, I'm just gonna brush it off, right? Heart Part 6. All right, whatever. Like, I'm done with this. I'm moving on. Yeah. But, but he was the only one that was done with it. Everybody else was still very much into it and having fun with it. So then it was like, cause you was, there was a incredible video of Drake at a pool party, maybe like

70:45Guests: a couple of days after. And like, everybody looks miserable. Because everybody wants to play Not Like Us, but Drake is there. And so we're all just hanging out, you know, at a pool party with the guy that is the subject of the biggest record of the summer that we can't play. Biggest record of the year! Cowboy Carter came out this year. Beyonce's country album. Came out in 2024,

71:13Guests: and it's completely, I know, I know, but it's fully eclipsed by one song, and it's, it's, it's just crazy, I feel like, I feel like, for my generation, for us, you know, being here on the planet now, it's strange, it's crazy, that the biggest party song of the year is a diss track, is a diss track where he literally, like you said, KT, labels KT, labels The opposites team as pedophiles straight up.

71:44Guests: No, like no subliminals. This is all factoids. Like the whole song is not even like catchy phrases or nothing like that. It is literally like, you know, you better not go to, like, you better not go to jail because it's going to be bad for you. It's like, that's insane. We're, we're crip walking on Drake's grave in celebration.

72:06KT: we're over a hopscotch over

72:09Guests: Yeah,

72:09KT: now.

72:10Guests: craziest image, craziest image in the whole thing. I remember when I saw the video and I was like, I, I cannot believe. I cannot believe what we're talking about. He's in front of the, uh, the shipping containers. What's that about? Please, please tell

72:25KT: are smart. I didn't pick that up. Yeah.

72:28Guests: Human trafficking. Oh my, oh my god.

72:31KT: Cameron's having a Mother I moment.

72:34Guests: I am! I'm sober now! He's got the owl in the cage. He's doing, but I think that's the thing. Owl in the cage is sick. It's nasty work. Drake is now at the point where he's like, cause he, he, he kinda wants to be in on the joke, right? Like that's his whole defense mechanism. But he

72:54KT: like, no, my guy,

72:55Guests: Yeah, he's he's he's You gotta sit this one out. You actually gotta sit this one out. Well, he had 69 God as his, like, bully name at whatever, you know. Never. Never. And it was like, It's gotten to the point where it's like, if it wasn't Drake, it would be sad. Like, you would be like, aw, buddy, like, it's really, you should probably stay

73:15Guests: inside for a little bit. But he's, he's really, he's gotten to the point, cause there was a, there was those pictures of him at the 4th of July party that he hosted. And, uh, Julian, Julian Lytle, who's been on our show a couple of times, was like, the beef has aged him like, uh, like a, like a presidential term. Yeah, I mean, like he looks like, he's been through so much in such a short span of time.

73:42Guests: And it literally looks like his skin is like, it's sagging. It's crazy. It's like, he's probably watched these videos and listened to these songs so much. It's like, and

73:52KT: Stay on the, stay on the stream. Stay on the stream.

73:56Guests: Kendrick, at the Pop Out, Kendrick, in this video, skin glowing. Skin glowing! Younger than, younger than Section.80! The hair is poppin Whitney's out here dancing with the kids, like, it's a full celebration. and

74:11KT: a hater and going to therapy. It's being a hater and going to therapy. That's

74:15Guests: Woo!

74:16KT: what's going on

74:17Guests: Well, because you, but you know what it is, like I said, it's been, he's been sitting on this for 10 years. You know how good this has to feel to finally get it out and everybody's running with it? Like, And everybody, you got the city on your back. We feel the same way. It's, it's incredible. It's, it's, it's like, So he's having the time of his life.

74:34Guests: He's like, this is everything I ever wanted. You know, right now, this moment. With the, uh, when he got his, when he got his cheeks pinched, walking out of the video shoot. That's the cutest shit in the world. Hold up. I, like, and he was literally like, thank you, like, he was like, accepting, not like, not like Drake would be like, get my security on it, he was like, oh my god, I am so cute, this is wonderful, like, it's like, to get into the Pop Out itself, right, like, you can

75:01KT: Oh, okay. We'll, we'll go where you want Jordan, but friends and lovers meet me in the DMs. We'll continue the thirsting.

75:09Guests: at, at, at the show itself, when everybody was on stage, You could see just the joy in his face, like I said, it's, it's beautiful to see how much he loves his city and also how much he hates Drake simultaneously, like both things at the same time, like he so much loves when he was just like, yeah, hey, come on.

75:33Guests: No, like, that's my guy. Come on stage. Come on stage. Like this person, you know, everybody's just coming up and like, it's, it's amazing because he is at once. Yeah. rapping the whole song while he's dapping people up while people are like, you know, patting his shoulder like dancing around him because you lose you lose him multiple times during the performance because like there's so many people on stage and they're just like trying to catch everyone and he you just kind of get glimpses of him like moving around but like he's he's keeping it people up occasionally yeah but then there's there's moments basically at the end where he's doing the whole you know the real nigga challenge he's running everybody down where he's just like he he loses it Because he's just so happy to see everyone.

76:18Guests: When he's just like, twenty one, ahhh! And it's just like, you can tell, like, he's so hyped, but he's so happy to have all of his people around him. When he's getting everybody together for the picture, you know what I mean? Like, it's so great to see, because, yes, you know, we're all dancing on Drake's grave and all that stuff.

76:42Guests: but he This is, this is what he, this is, this is what he wants. Right. You know, like genuine, the music is great. You know, the moment is great, but like, like we, like we talked about this, he grew up here, you know, around these people and like all of his albums have some, you know, mentioned or are crucially about, I got out.

77:08Guests: All my people are still here. My friends are still here. My homies are still here. You know, my heart is still here, you know, like, that was what To Pimp a Butterfly was about. That was what the DAMN. was about. You know what I mean? Like, I, I really care about this place and everybody here. And like, I understand Crips, Bloods, Pirus, you know, all the different, you know, gangs and everything going on in the city.

77:31Guests: If I could just for one moment, have all of us together, you know, like he was saying, like, Nipsey died, Kobe died, you know, like, we've been, we've been hurting for a long time, you know, we haven't really had a moment like this to, to connect and heal. And so, like, for him to be able to do that. You know, it's such a beautiful thing and then he turns around and he's like, let's do it again. Everybody gets on stage. Six times.

77:59KT: What is it? Meet the Grahams, but honestly, I don't have a hating bone in my body.

78:05Guests: Can we, I just, I just want to say this, speaking of Meet the Grahams very briefly, because this is the thing that I'll always come back to for this whole beef, specifically when we think about The Heart Part 6. And I think this encapsulates. Drake perfectly to me because like Kendrick said, right, like, you know, I got a son to raise, right?

78:23Guests: Like I, I love my family having, you know, Whitney and the kids and the Not Like Us video and like she Was going and you could see how she was like, I've been holding this blood walk in But I'm gonna hit

78:38KT: is looking hydrated. She's looking well rested like. Yeah. the kids, the babies are Looking yes.

78:46Guests: So Meet the Grahams, Kendrick dedicates the entire first verse to your son. He is speaking to him directly. He tells him, Hey, I know your dad ain't shit. So, when you're 18 years old, just listen to this, and like, this is gonna make sense. Heart Part 6 comes out, Drake has multiple bars in reference to a quote unquote imaginary child. Has nothing to say about his real life child that Kendrick was talking to.

79:23Guests: Like, if that's, like I said when that song came out, you have to fight him now. You have to find out where he is and get into an actual fist fight. He's he's talking about your actual child that really he's not even talking about him. He's talking to him like yes about you about you and That you know what I mean, that's like

79:44KT: Never mind that, yeah.

79:47Guests: but he's like no a daughter What do you mean? And it's like, bro, like, that's but that that's that's really where the contrast comes in. Because here's again, here's Kendrick this whole time, you know, Drake, throwing mud, slinging allegations, kid ain't yours, beat your wife, you know, all of this stuff, whatever, silence, right? The whole time. Everybody's like, Kendrick's got to say something.

80:11Guests: Kendrick's got to deny these allegations. Kendrick's got to show us, uh, uh, you know, the DNA test and like all this other stuff. I mean, side note, if you look at the video, Kendrick's ears, that little boy's ears, come on, dog, this shouldn't be any questions, but like, he didn't have to say anything, right? Like at the Pop Out show, you don't see Whitney and you don't see the kids. They are there. The only reason we know they're there is because

80:36Guests: other people shot video of them dancing, but he, he made a point. I'm not going to bring them on stage. I'm not going to have, you know, the camera cut away to her dancing in the crowd. I'm secure in my family and the people that I love. I don't have to do. All of that stuff. Meanwhile, we know, we know how Drake gets down. Right? I gotta show the son on Father's Day. I gotta show the son, you know, like,

80:59KT: Texas

80:59Guests: birthday. Right, I gotta, you know, I gotta have, you know, certain things. Meanwhile, remember, we didn't know about Adonis until not even Pusha T came out with the song, but because they were gonna have a whole Adidas press rollout for his child. Right? Like, his child is going to be part of a PR management thing. And the only reason, again, when he goes back, when you go back and you look into it, like, he made that woman take multiple DNA tests to prove to him that that was his child.

81:34Guests: That's the only reason we even know what that kid looks like, and that's incredible. That's incredible. This is the man telling us that kid is not Kendrick's. Right, right. It's such like a, it's such like a fake, like, it's the same move, right? He stole the move from Pusha's playbook. He's like, oh, I'm gonna talk about kids that we don't think we know about. And it's like, do you even know what you're talking about? But that's

82:00Guests: his whole thing, right? He pushed those buttons. He said the same thing to Pusha T, where he was talking about his fiancé. He brought her into it. Same thing with Meek Mill. He brought Nicki Minaj into it. Same thing with Kendrick now. He's bringing Whitney into it.

82:15Guests: And two of those times, you fucked up. You really should have not done that because you could tell how much, again, this is why, this is why Kendrick feels the way he does because he sees the way that Drake moves around and like the way that he tries to make it work. Manipulate things and pull people into it.

82:33Guests: He's he was talking shit about Dave Free. He was talking shit about Kendrick's manager. He was talking shit about his wife. You know, every he didn't have a lot. All you have for Kendrick is that you're not very tall, right? But he had smoke for

82:46KT: it, was

82:47Guests: everybody around him. Yeah.

82:49KT: was it N95 where he said, we're tired of your microwave memes of the Real world outside?

82:54Guests: Real

82:55KT: like, shut up. But I think also part of like, part of what's frustrating. And even though I'm not like. A super hip hop fan or like understander of the knowledge and that sort of thing. Those are words.

83:07KT: Wow. but I just like part of what frustrates me is the farce of Drake, like for him to, even if the line sounded cool, like the Money Trees thing pissed me off because even that Vice documentary. Where he's like surrounded by bloods and stuff. And like the journalist found out that he donated money to the school, which wasn't public knowledge.

83:28KT: Like, I think we know about it now, but at the time he was like, how did you even know that? That was his first response when that information was like mentioned in that piece. Right. So it's like, even when he said that, even if you don't know that Kendrick is about, Where he's from, like that line stands to question because where is Drake in all of this, who are you to say that, who are you to say the slave line, especially because that was a response to Kendrick saying, we don't want you to say the N word no more. How did you turn it into that?

83:56KT: Like, I think part of what frustrates me about The Heart Part 6 in particular, he tried to Meet the Grahams Kendrick and you can't Meet the Grahams until you've stripped the ayahuasca, the ego from the bottom. You know what I mean? Like.

84:10Guests: shit.

84:11KT: Kendrick has gone through a whole journey. And what I love about, Like his whole discography. I think like a lot of people I've like done the whole album sort of journey as well. It's, it's still Kendrick. He's still at the core of everything he raps about, but it's very much his journey and his conflict. And, you know, as soon as you get past good kid, m.A.A.d city, it's about grappling with the fame.

84:33KT: What does the fame mean? Do I succumb? To that fame, this dick ain't free, I just be quoting, but I did, I did get warning about the, Not the hillbilly the part bowed on occasion brother because Oti didn't know what I was talking about He's like, are you watching Hulk Hogan? And I'm like, no, it's Kendrick Lamar And around Caucasian brother I just I just randomly quoted but anyway, but in regards to his body of work It's him.

85:02KT: It's him in that moment and him being vulnerable And that vulnerability, as much as Drake wants to be authentic, I don't think he will ever allow himself to do that. So for him to do a Heart Part 6, six, which is kind of his approach to like, Hey, I'm talking to you, man to man, I'm trying to

85:21Guests: Yeah, this is my

85:22KT: what's best.

85:22Guests: speak to you. Yeah,

85:24KT: It doesn't work, man.

85:26Guests: it was embarrassing. It was embarrassing. Yeah, well, his whole timestamp series is allegedly, you know, this is where he gets emotional or talks about, you know, whatever. But it's weird because most of his stuff is like, yeah, you know, I had an affair with the waitress at this strip club. I know it's so whack And now you know what I mean? And I think Charlotte, I was, you know, for one night I was out with the crew and made a couple mistakes, but you know, that's how it be sometimes.

85:55Guests: I'm like, But I think his, his thing, his whole, I, I think that's, again, if we're getting back into the crux of like, you know, where these two differ, is that Drake, and it's not even that Drake isn't from anywhere, right? But like, when you, when you think about these two things, when you think about the video that's come out, and you think about the Pop Out, Drake can't do that. Yeah,

86:18Guests: I think I even texted that to you, Cam, like, he can't, he can't do this. He can't go to Toronto. I think that's literally what she was texting me during the pop. I was like, Drake can't do that. He can't bring out all of these people. One, because he's alienated so many people in Toronto. You know, people, again, I've, I was learning this during the beef that people in Toronto were very upset about the God's Plan video because he went down to Miami. It was headed to Miami.

86:44Guests: It was so sickening. I'm like, Oh, You went to a random place in America, not even in Canada where you're from. And it was like, Hey, random downtrodden black people. I'm going to give you 5,000 because he's the care, right? He's the 6 God, right? Like he's representing Toronto. He's doing all this stuff, but it's rare that you see him in Toronto and it's rare that you see him affiliated with other Toronto artists like PartyNextDoor or the people that he, he, he associates with, right.

87:18Guests: Often just become. Ancillary parts of the Drake machine, right? I was about to say, background characters in the OVO story. Right, so like, you know, instead of him bringing them up and making them, you know, the next big thing, they're just kind of like, I keep you close because, you know, when I need a hook or, you know, when I need this or that, you know, I'll keep you around, right?

87:41Guests: Because that's, that's the other, his beef with The Weeknd. The Weeknd was like, Oh, I see how this is. Nah, I'm good. Which is crazy because they should be, you would think that Drake and The Weeknd would have joined forces like five years ago, six years ago, and just dominated the world, some kind of mixtape, he's singing the hooks, Drake is rapping the raps, you would have thought that would have happened like Watch the Throne style at least five, six years ago.

88:07Guests: It was like a layup and then not only did he alienate this guy, which is like bad decision, but he went further and decided to, you know, like, Just not back up anybody, not, not back up anybody, but just try to stay like top rat as far as, you know, bringing Future in, or bringing 21 Savage in, or bringing in all these ancillary people from hip

88:31KT: He's got the Game.

88:33Guests: Yeah.

88:36KT: watched that 17, like someone had uploaded it on Twitter. He's a 17 minute live on Instagram. I think it was.

88:42Guests: Yeah.

88:42KT: cause again, I'd be going into the dark Kenny subreddit and I was following Ebony Prince. Like I was deep up in it, I must say. but I watched that 17 minute video just so I could get. Something, but he didn't mention about whether he wasn't invited or not. And I'm like, man, that's why I tried to watch a stupid

89:00Guests: No, I mean, the Game is on that kind of time where he is one of those, like, it's, it's been a long time with him, you know, just kind of like, Hey, you know, this is why, you know, so and so doesn't fuck with me or, you know, he's got all these excuses and then the truth comes out and everybody's like, Oh, cause you.

89:20Guests: You're just a fuckboy. You're like, you're just one of those people that like, you know, And what if Dave Chappelle was like, who gives a fuck what the Game thinks at a time like this? Like, you are not in question, never, haven't been since like literally, oh, when the doc, when the first Documentary came out.

89:39Guests: Right. But, but that's the thing, like, he's, he's one of those, but if that's, again, if that's who Drake has on his side, you know, the guy who, uh, alienates everybody that is around him to the point where he's not invited to the biggest

89:53KT: it's

89:54Guests: function in L. A. Yeah,

89:55KT: in an industry for so long and have like scragglers around. yeah. And you've got a

90:01Guests: if they were, if they were, the Avengers. Like, y'know, Kendrick's got literally the city of Compton behind him, numerous rappers, the entire TDE is still banging with him even though he's not on the label anymore. And Drake has got like, Camila Cabello and like, some random Toronto basketball players behind him.

90:21Guests: Like, that's that team is not going to succeed. People came out again at the Pop Out. You could see those are those people are Kendrick's people like they're not people from LA They fuck with Kendrick Specifically like they came out on the love because like Oh Kendrick you're throwing a con like I'll be there You don't even have to say anything. Just let me know YG

90:45KT: Except for Vince Staples.

90:47Guests: Vince Staples what

90:48KT: it was like, if he knew Tommy the Clown was gonna be there. You would've been there.

90:52Guests: Yeah I Think I think Vince was You Uh, on an international tour and Snoop Dogg was also on an international tour, but I think they were both just like, oh, shit. Like, I would have, you know what I mean? Like, if, if the schedules had aligned, I would have been there, you know, and I think a lot of people had the same. Well, I was going to say, especially if Vince said something like, come on, Vince don't, Vince don't like nobody.

91:15KT: Yeah. I, there there's like a, oh, sorry. I was just gonna

91:18Guests: oh, I was just going to say, that's, that's because Kendrick is, is. LA, you know what I mean? He has, he has surpassed Snoop and, you know, the other OGs in terms of being like, he is, he represents the city, you know, like, where he moves, how he moves. That's where everything goes, you know what I mean? And in such a, but has unified it in such a way that I don't, I don't recall it ever being quite like this, where, you know, again, like, They killed Tupac. You know what I mean? Like, so

91:53Guests: it killed Tupac, but people even made the point, right? Like Tupac wasn't from there.

91:58Guests: Tupac's from Baltimore, and then he moved to New York, and then he moved out to, you know what I mean? So, like, he's not somebody from Los Angeles, right? Like, Kendrick Lamar grew up in Compton. He's, he's from the area. All of these people who are up now, right? Like, whether it's YG, whether it's, Vince Staples, whether it's, you know, the whole it's Tyler, it's the whole Internet crew, uh, all of those people like he came up with them and they watched him rise, right?

92:27Guests: And they know him intimately from being in that scene. And so, like, they revere him. Like, he's not just, he's not just happens to be the guy who's on top at the moment. They're like, that's our guy. Like, that's, we're, we're rooting for Kendrick specifically. And like, we love to see him there. And so, like, if he asks us to come outside. Yes, you know like it's not even the second thought or a question. Drake, if he asks people to come outside, maybe, I don't know,

92:59Guests: like, if there's gonna be cameras there, like, right? Yeah, I gotta get a babysitter,

93:03KT: I, I'm washing my hair like I'm, I'm busy.

93:06Guests: So, if he did a, if he did a Not Like Us video, you know, like in Toronto, You know, like, again, he might get some people who are just like, I haven't been relevant in a long time, and so I would like any, any sense of fame or, you know, like, viral attention, so I will be in the thing, but like, he's not gonna get legitimate folk who really actually, like, bang with him, like, he's just gonna get more sycophantic people who wanna be, who wanna hold on to the last dredges of whatever he's got going on.

93:42Guests: You know, and I think that, again, that's just such a telling thing where, like, you see, not, not, not one Lil Wayne show of support, quote, anything, not one Nicki Minaj. Where are y'all money at? Where they at? I love,

93:58KT: that interview from Lil Wayne 15 years ago, telling Drake, don't act like me.

94:03Guests: yeah, be a Canadian nigga. That's what he told them. So that's the thing, like, Wayne is, if there is anybody who could stand for Drake, Right? And like, be the one that pushes back against all of this. It's Wayne. He is nowhere to be seen. He is outside. He's outside! I've seen him at this. He's actually, he's rapping now. He's doing concerts right now, at this very moment.

94:26Guests: He's just not with you. He's not supporting you. And again, like that, what a telling thing that the guy who brought you in, who validated you, who put all of this on you, in your biggest moment where you need a win, when you need somebody to stand up and say, Hey, I still fuck with Drake. Drake is my guy, you know what I mean?

94:46Guests: Like, I'll, I'll go to bat for him. I'll go to war with him. I'll jump on the Family Matters remix with him. I'll do none of that. So like, not even, not even a liked tweet, not even, you

94:59KT: Drake has to vote himself. He has to vote for his own songs in polls. It's very sad. I don't want to spend too much time talking about Diddy, but there are parallels there because we will watch all of the eventual documentaries and 50 Cent, obviously, I think he sold it to Netflix, but there was a TMZ one, which we've watched already. and it's like, nobody, like no one's like, no one's coming out to bat for him.

95:24Guests: Well, because everybody that's been going on for like 20 years at this, 30 years at this point, and so many people have been burned

95:32KT: Yeah, but you could say the same thing about Drake. Maybe not 20 years, but like 12, like Drake has been around for a while as well. Maybe not

95:39Guests: but Diddy was, like, holding onto people's money. Like, he was like, he was like, I'm not, I'm not paying you for that song. Like, what? The song I wrote? Yeah, I'm not paying you for that. Or the video. Or anything. And maybe you'll see And then he'd remember, like, I guess, what? Last year, he came out publicly and was like, Yeah, he was like, I'm gonna give you, I'll give Mase his money. And I was like, What? What? Now?

96:04KT: Was it?

96:04Guests: He's scumbag?

96:05KT: Is the name Aubrey from Danity Kane? She in that TMZ documentary. She mentioned that there were

96:10Guests: $15

96:12KT: They're like

96:12Guests: he owes Aubrey O'Day,

96:13KT: Yeah. They were Like conditions to it. But, I do want to, cause we haven't really like, we've been like talking for hours, but I don't think we've like really succinctly talk about the, the Pop Out. If you want to talk about the Pop Out also the music video, and then we can like transition into The Wiz, but, something that I really appreciate it because I don't know, like, I think I just get scared about listening to new music. Music. so I'm never really surprised about my monthly cause Apple does monthly listens.

96:39KT: Sorry, guys. I know Spotify is the popular one.

96:43Guests: about that. Yeah.

96:44KT: I don't know. It's one of those things that like people care, like they say it's a person that it's a personality thing. You have to have Spotify anyway, whatever. But

96:51Guests: I've had both.

96:52KT: oh, you've had both.

96:53Guests: I've had both. I had Apple Music for like two years before I switched to Spotify. I only switched to Spotify because I, I felt like the playlist shares was better. Yeah. Like I could, I could share my playlist easier. That's it.

97:07KT: but yeah, I just, I get like, I know what my listens are going to be because like, I know what I'm listening to is the point. I get scared of listening to new things, but with the Pop Out, especially DJ Hed, like I knew eventually, especially on Reddit, like people would put the playlist, but I was shazamming the shit out of that. which was hard when they weren't, they didn't have a backing track, but I was like

97:28KT: actively creating a playlist so we could go back and listen to it. so it was really cool to like, learn about new artists. Obviously you have like YG as well. YG doing Toot It and Boot It? When he was a skinny little thing, I was, like, this is for me, like he's doing this for me specifically, because he came to Australia and he did songs, but he didn't do Toot It and Boot It. yeah. But anyway,

97:51KT: my point is I, like, I really enjoy, I I, I didn't look at the crowd, especially my Pacific Islanders during the My N Word song. I was like, I'm not, this is not, this is not my responsibility. I'm looking away. Um.

98:03Guests: There you go.

98:03KT: Yeah, but it was like, it was really cool to like, get to know new music artists and even without understanding like LA music, like you got different types, even though they had similar sort of themes, like there were different types of artists, like the Cuzzos,

98:18KT: Blast, the O3 Flow, like all of that was like, I really enjoyed just getting to learn new music and. Like that this was an opportunity like you said earlier Cameron of like putting people on it's not just about Kendrick ha ha ha I'm hating on you it's it's more than that and Jordan you also mentioned how it's more than that as well

98:36Guests: Well, it's interesting. I mean, two things. One, people forget about it. Apparently Drake's forgot about it, but the Black Panther soundtrack. Oh. Littered with just random L. A. niggas. You know what I mean? Like, he's just got random people you've never heard of before on the soundtrack to the biggest movie in Marvel history. You know what I mean? And it's cause you were like, oh, a new Kendrick Lamar album. And he's on like, three songs? Four songs?

99:08Guests: He pops around. He's like, I think he's like, on every track technically. But he's not like, he's only really on, uh, like, He's on King's Dead, All the Stars, and the song with The Weeknd. And, uh, Yeah.

99:22KT: and King's Dead is on that

99:24Guests: Yeah. Oh, yeah Like Cameron said, like, he'll pop up on some other, you know, things. But, like, that's really what it is. But then the rest of it is just like, Who's this? Who's that? Who's this? You know what I mean? It felt like a mixtape. It was crazy. But he did that intentionally. He was like, well, I'm going to give you some LA and I'm going to give you some, you know, Afro beats and some African artists. And we're going to mix that together. Right. And so, like, he's been doing that.

99:50Guests: And that's again, when, when Drake is saying, you didn't plant any money trees, you never put anybody on. It's like, I can't think of putting anybody on more than putting them on the Black Panther soundtrack. The biggest nothing.

100:02Guests: Yeah. Right. The biggest soundtrack of the last 10 years. It's like, are you even paying attention? Drake? Are you even watching? The Weeknd's on that one! Your guy! Your guy! Is on the Black Panther soundtrack! But watching the concert too, what's crazy is when you see those artists come out, again, you would think, oh, okay, you know, it's early in the set, people are kind of gonna be in the crowd, on their phones, people are rapping those songs!

100:32Guests: People know who they are in the building, you know what I mean? And so it's, it's not even like, Oh, like we're at home, like, Oh, who's this? But in the building, they're like, Oh, it's my, it's my cousin. It's, you know, whoever like, Oh yeah. Like, and everybody's like getting into it. And so I think that's great to see too, because like a lot of people mentioned, a lot of those people had probably only rapped in front of maybe like 500 people.

100:57Guests: At most, you know, somewhere, or, you know, if they opened up for, you know, somebody locally, maybe they did like, you know, 1000 some people, you know, and this was like, he gave them a stadium show. Yeah. You're in front of like 20,000 people. And. Hundreds of millions of people watching at home, and they all did it, you know, like nobody got up there and like blew it or like everybody met the moment and like did their thing.

101:27Guests: And so I think that was great. And then once they started, like, rolling it out, it was kind of like, Whoa, who's going to show up? Like, when Tyler, the Creator came out, like, everybody was like, what? Uh, yeah, he looks if you want to. Oh, I'm sorry. If you just real quick, if you want to play the inverse of that, remember when Tyler brought out Drake at the And that nigga got booed off the stage That's crazy. Oh, yeah So this is how long ago in LA

101:55KT: did their fan bases not overlap?

101:58Guests: I would I would bet they are the same Fan base, they're both like big pop rappers. Tyler's like huge

102:04KT: I know who Tyler the Creator is. I just like that specific instance you're talking about, like, would they

102:09Guests: That was like

102:10KT: about Drake? Oh,

102:14Guests: Yeah, I get the sense that, again, that, that was kind of the, cause was that around Scorpion? Yes. That was, that was like, yeah, that was kind of like the Drake. That was right before Certified Lover Boy. Right, that was post Pusha T, you know, and right before, so like, I think there was still some reverberation from that.

102:35Guests: And also, I feel like because of where Tyler came from, which is that real, like, internet, uh, heavy, you know, Odd Future, you know, situation where, like, they're listening to Tyler, they're also listening to, like, you know, Earl and, like, all of that other stuff, so, like, Drake is, like, literally the antithesis of everything. Actually, you're right. You're right

102:56KT: you frame it

102:56Guests: They're a bump it. Yeah. Like, he's not in a way that Drake is not really like homespun or like, Yeah, so I think he was already coming down, and it's interesting too, I mean, this is gonna hurt all of us, but. Drake is around, he's a little bit older than us, or he's around the same age, so like, for kids, Drake is old.

103:22KT: Oh, I was Like, when is it going to start to hurt? And I was like that Simpsons meme of Ralph, like just like

103:33Guests: I don't know, I always, like, Tyler the Creator, uh, Like, Bow Wow, like, uh, there's a couple of people who I'm just like, you've been around so long, Taylor Swift, like, I don't really know how old you are. Like, I know you're younger than me,

103:49KT: around. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

103:51Guests: I can't quite track if you're 30 yet, if you're still early 20s, or whatever, I think Tyler is not, if he is, he's just 30, maybe, but he might be 28, or something like that.

104:05Guests: Tyler is older than that. Tyler is like, Tyler is like, 33. I'm gonna say a hot guess. He, he, he came out when he was, he was rapping in high school. He was like 15. Oh, I remember. I like Bastard. You know what I mean? He's 33. I on the 33. Really? Okay. All right. I thought he was a little, but that's what I'm saying. Like he, he feels like he's still younger than. You know, in a way. And so like, and his audience is, is very much like teenagers still

104:35Guests: like, you know, so like, again, they, the, the kids, the Gen Z has rejected Drake, uh, over time. And, you know, like, we are still kind of in that space of like, you know, again, Kendrick, Drake, Cole, like all of them, like there, there are contemporaries in terms of age, you know, but, uh, All of the younger rappers in the younger generation are probably just kind of like this, this guy's kind of not it anymore.

105:03Guests: You know what I mean? Like he's, this is my, my parents listened to Drake, you know what I mean? Like my, my, my older cousins listened to Drake, you know what I mean? Like, I don't want to, I want to get into, you know, whatever, you know, Teezo Touchdown or whatever's happening right now. So, uh,

105:19KT: Our, our, our dog sitter said that, uh, her dad loves watching Power and I'm like, Oh man. It's like, Oh No! man.

105:32Guests: That's us! But I think that's the thing. So, like, Kendrick, again, was able to bring such a disparate group of people together for that show. Like, all L. A. You know, but, like, all the sides of LA, again, like, if, if, I don't know if Thundercat was available, but I'm sure he would have came out, like, you know, he's got, he's got the whole contingent, because Kendrick, again, kind of runs the gamut, right?

105:56Guests: Like, he is highly successful, highly commercial, right? He's also, you know, like a, a rapper's rapper, like a lyricist, lyricist. Uh, he's also somebody who's kind of weird, you know, has weird, does weird artsy things, you know, and like, that's, that's a very LA thing, right? Like the, the kind of, you know, somebody from again, Compton or Long Beach or somewhere like that, because Vince is kind of the same way.

106:23Guests: Vince is like, yeah, I gangbang. Also like. I'm into some, like, avant garde film shit, like, I'm kind of like, the dualities, you know, but you're right, there's a sense of, like, I'm tapped into something deeper, and the, uh, like, the Pop Out only showed that he was actually tapped into LA in a way that, like, Drake could never do a Toronto show like that. He could never, he could never do it.

106:53KT: but I think it's also, I think it's also hope. Like it's hope that. maybe once every so often, once in a lifetime, Kendrick Lamar can exist where he is about artistry, but he does thrive successfully. This whole notion of him being an underground rapper made no sense because the Black Panther, like literally that album is literally right there, but it's possible to be vulnerable.

107:19KT: And I think, you know, If, even if you like, if you don't know him, but if you've listened to his albums, he is very real about his shortcomings and, you know, all of the shit that he's had to like deal with, personally, but also exactly, you know what I mean? So it's one of those things, you just can't fake shit like that. and that's why I think a lot of people are about him and are also. Not about Drake. And I think

107:45KT: part of it, because I'm also on my healing journey. I'm not as cute if you pinch me, if you're nasty, but, it's like hating without the bitterness. And I think that's, what's so glorious about this moment. Cause we can't hate on the guy, but there isn't that bitterness of, I want you, cause that whole line of only you like being famous, that resonated to me. Seeing the way some people move in this film criticism space, I'm like, only you want that interview. I, I'm just going to be over here doing my own thing.

108:17Guests: Look, you thought the money, the power of fame would make you go away, right? Like you thought that attaining all of these things without actually working on who you are as a person or like having an actual identity. Would make all the insecurities like evaporate once you got there and anybody same old tale, right?

108:36Guests: You talk to anybody with money anybody who's been super successful and they'll tell you it's it's nice Certainly look, I mean, I don't have to I could put all the bills on autopay I don't have to worry about anything. My life is, you know, fine in that sense. I still have problems I might have more problems now I might have different problems than I had before like all of the things that I came into this space with You Still exist and maybe have been amplified in certain ways.

109:02Guests: Right? So it's not like that's the instant quick fixes that once you get into that space, everything is great. And it's the same way to where like, when you when you think about hip hop, right? There's the the people who were like Yeah, I'm a gangster, you know, this is great, I'm out here shooting people, doing all this stuff, which is kind of like the lane that Drake has gotten into, and then you think about the Mobb Deeps, the Ice T's, you know, all these people were like, that's just not cool though, like, I know I did it, and I'm still, and I did, but like, my friends died, right?

109:36Guests: I mean, you listen to Vince Staples, like, I, a lot of people I know are dead. That's his music. And I'll never see them again. That's crazy. That's like, Vince Staples has like, what, he's had four albums right now, five albums right now. I'm not going to say they're all the same because that's not the case. He's definitely an iconoclast in that

109:55KT: thematically there's a through line. Yeah.

110:04Guests: the sadness, you feel the sorrow. You were dancing, especially on the new record, uh, Dark Times for Vince. Like you feel it. You be feelin it, but you also like, he wants to dance, he wants to, you know, he wants to, there's a bright light in those dark times, and that is the rhythm, that is the music.

110:22Guests: And Drake, there's nothing attached to it, there's nothing, everything, I mean, I'm not trying to transition yet, but that is what, I'm a phony, I'm a fake phony! Everything you just said about me is true. Briefly, I'll bring it all back. Right, so, like, this feels very much like, and it's very appropriate because Akademiks was at the heart of this as well.

110:45Guests: That video of I want Akademiks downfall as much as I want Drake's downfall. I want them both. I want them buried next to each other. If you haven't seen the video from, I think it's almost like six years ago now, where they had Vic Mensa on uh, The, I forget what the show was called, but it was, it was Akademiks, uh, Everyday Struggle. The Complex show. Yeah. Uh, KT. Have you seen this clip?

111:13KT: I'm just thinking of Vic Mensa at the BET awards where he was like staring at himself.

111:19Guests: I'm gonna find it, I'm gonna put it in chat.

111:20KT: over here,

111:22Guests: But,

111:22Guests: so Vic, Vic Mensa at this point. Vic Mensa had been, he know, he kind of been, I think he had baby recently signed with Kanye and all that stuff. Uh, and so. You know, but he's very much from Chicago, you know, and so like, Akademiks is like, they have him on and they're like chit chatting, and like, Akademiks got famous by doing a series of videos about quote unquote Chiraq and the Drill Movement and all of the rappers who got killed, you know, as that was coming up, and like a lot of his commentary was insensitive, to say the least, and, uh, sensational.

112:00Guests: He's

112:01KT: only imagine. Yeah.

112:02Guests: disgusting. And so, and so, Vic? Is on the show and they're talking and you know, I think somebody brings up, you know, Chiraq and like all that stuff and Vic is like, you know, honestly, I wanted to punch you in your face. As soon

112:17KT: yes. I've seen that. I've seen

112:18Guests: Yeah. Yeah. He was like, no, honestly, you a bitch. you a bitch, nigga. And I, I really want to punch you in your face. Like, it's crazy that he said that within like 10 inches of his face. Like I was just like, you know, if the cameras, if the cameras weren't on, we would, I would, I would beat you the fuck up, basically. Because like, he's literally talking, he talked about his friends, he made his life, his living off of the deaths. of these kids.

112:44Guests: And that's like, that's crazy. Like literally made the, the, you know, the Chicago Drill, the YouTube series, and doubled down on it constantly for like the next like four years, just talking about like, yeah. But also in a In like a celebratory sense, like, he was like, this, this should be happening, no way, like, you know, and I'm like, you don't live it, you know nothing about it, and, and you're critiquing, you have no, like, sense, you have no background about this, and you're capitalizing off of death?

113:17Guests: It's like, yeah, bro. And to bring it, to bring it all back, I'm not gonna get into the triple X. Thing cuz I don't know anything about that. You know all those. Oh, well all the things that people talk about XXXTentacion and Drake Yeah, for sure. I saw the video where he was talking about, you know, how Drake asked me to do a feature I said no and then like next thing I know he's doing me on one of his songs

113:43KT: Mm

113:44Guests: It's like whoa, but it's to say that I think that With that, specifically, it has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, where it's like, Kendrick, I, I'm from here, and I know people who have died, you know, involved in this life, doing these things, and I see you out here doing Mob Ties songs and, you know, other things where I'm gonna get this person hit. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that. And it's like, I know people who really have been.

114:12KT: hmm.

114:12Guests: You know, in that life doing those things and like, it's not a thing that you play around with. It's not a thing that you and you're, you're not even on the periphery of any of this. Like, you are very much. So trying to insert yourself into these spaces where you're around J.

114:28Guests: Prince and all these other people who are, you know, specifically involved in that life, you know, 21 give you false street cred, right? Like, you're trying to trying to dabble in that life. in these spaces. And like, I know people who could do that for me now. I mean, that's, that's in the, uh, what's the song on To Pimp a Butterfly?

114:49Guests: Where he was like, yo, I brought my people to the BET Awards and they were like, gonna rob somebody. And I had to tell them to not do that because I work with these people. Like, we can't, we can't do this. You know what I

115:02KT: Not yet, but in a few years, not yet, but in a few years you can go for this one.

115:08Guests: Right. But that's the thing, like all those people, all those people at the Pop Out show who are on stage with him. Real niggas. They done some things, like those people. Real people. You know what I mean? Like, there was the one dude that everybody was, was, was talking about who had the, the ski mask, the Shiesty mask on. Like, he's like, you can't see me. I'm here. I probably shouldn't be there might be an ankle monitor on me right now. Just really real

115:42KT: Like it's all love, but I still need to cover my face.

115:46Guests: Yeah, I do have, you know, I can't let them know that might be there might be somebody on stage who if they knew I was here. This, this might not end in a, in a celebratory way. So I'm just going to cover it up and, uh, you know, we'll, we'll keep to it.

116:02KT: we didn't really talk about the actual music video, but before we do that, Tim Hinshaw is his name. It's a Vibe article saying a black man from Compton joined the most ubiquitous brand on earth and brought the culture with him. So Tim Hinshaw, shout outs to Tim Hinshaw. cause we didn't really talk about the Not Like Us video. Is there anything you want to say before we get to The

116:22KT: Wiz? Yeah. also for our friends and lovers, uh, listening, go and get another snack, I guess, because we're, we're about to get, but also Jordan's zoom background, is the OVHO not being harmed in the Not Like Us video.

116:41Guests: I want to hear your thoughts. Tell us. I saw a little bit of your reaction to it. I did as well. She's great. Yeah, what, what, was your, how did you, cause I know we were, we were texting before it came out and I was like, I, I think, I think we might see the video before we record. Lo and behold, Kendrick provides. He's like, Hey, I got you

117:01KT: I'm so glad. I'm so glad

117:03Guests: both holidays.

117:05KT: Yeah. And I'm so glad that it came out before we recorded as well. Cause when we were messaging, I had to do the time zone thing and I was like, is it dropping at midnight your 4th of July? But then it turned out to be that 9am. I think, I think around 9am that time, but like I'm at work and I can't watch it. So I got muted all the socials. I've only ever done that twice in my life, the Pop Out and for the Not Like Us video, cause I

117:27KT: didn't want to be spoiled at all. Cause the good thing is in our timeline. Okay. We have a very rich, beautiful timeline, but it will tell me everything.

117:35KT: but also it keeps me tapped into like, even just like world events that doesn't get on mainstream news, but that's a story for another day. But I was like, I need to mute everything. but yeah, I think the day before we were speaking about it, potentially. Coming out anyway, I was very excited going back to my Apple monthly listens. I think, Not Like Us dropped on the fifth. So it wasn't even the full month of May and I'd listened to Not Like Us 180 times and well, I guess what's sadder and funnier or however you want to take it because I looked at a Reddit post and someone posted that they listened to it 80 times and then I went to Reddit, I went on to Apple and I was like, is this a, do we need to address this?

118:16KT: Oh, we're okay. I'm sorry. Anyway.

118:18Guests: wanna check now how many times I've

118:19KT: Yeah, so I'd listened to it like 180 times in that month of May, but, it's so great and it's got so many layers and I'm sure Jordan, you can give us a bit of a break there. I don't know if you said all of the tracks or just the Kendrick ones, but I would imagine Drake's tracks don't play the same as they did when they first were released, but all of Kendrick's tracks. just play so well and they don't, they don't age badly. And I think there's more texture added to them. And I kept listening to Not Like Us and I feel like the music video is like that as well.

118:53KT: also the, cause obviously Dave Free and Kendrick Lamar shot it. but they got a production company based in LA in the Bay area. so everything is really like, From hater to table, like it's, all, it's, it's all like, organic and grassroots, but yeah, so I feel like I'm going to continue to watch this music video because there's so, it's so densely edited and even like, cause we did like an initial reaction, which shout outs to people that do reaction videos.

119:22KT: Cause that is a whole. Instead of me with my mouth open, but, but even the way that the lyrics were chosen for particular moments and the way that it was edited, I think was such a great thing because when he says, The truth of the family matters. It was God's plan to show you the liar. That's obviously when we see Whitney, like all of those moments.

119:42KT: And I didn't, I think it took me like 10, 10 times watching it and with reactors and just like watching the music video, but when they do, he has 69 God near the end and you've got the whole crowd. It's just kids singing that. That's fucking

119:58Guests: Yeah.

119:59KT: man. but yeah, so all of like the different sort of, and the OVHO, because you know, when they released or they leaked, I think it was a leak actually. I don't know if, whether it was a leak or legitimate, there was those four images of the music video that OVHO, I don't think I even tried to think where that would be placed, but in the music video of it being like, What, what, what, and the way that the way that Ken was doing that at the Pop Out, I've been doing that ever since.

120:22KT: So it's like, I can only imagine everyone like feeling like they're hitting the pinata at the same time, you know, it's like, let me get this angle. Let me, let me get around this way. But

120:30Guests: I love it.

120:31KT: it was, it was so much fun. It was great. And I watched so many behind the scenes. So I knew Steve Lacy and Thundercat were there, but I didn't, I don't know if I saw them in the video.

120:41Guests: the end. So when you,

120:43KT: I think where YG

120:44Guests: to the. Yeah, well,

120:46Guests: it's the, it's the, it's after the OVHO part, so as they're, like, kind of just panning down the line of people and he's walking down, like, you can kind of see them do that, because I didn't catch it the first two times, and then, like, the third watch, I was like, wait, that looks like Thundercat, and that's gotta be Steve, so, like, again, like, when you go back, I'm sure, There's a bunch of people that maybe were just there that maybe were not prominently placed, but like were at the vi because I, I have to imagine people like Westside Boogie were probably there and like, oh yeah.

121:16Guests: I, you know, unless, unless Westbrook had other things to do, like Roddy Ricch was there as well. I haven't seen him. Yeah. The way that West, Westbrook was dancing on stage, like I don't think if he had the opportunity to be in the video, he would have not come through to be in the video. Yeah. My only. Critique of the video is that if you, if you know Schoolboy Q, you know, he hits, he hits an immaculate Cripwalk. And so like, I was

121:46KT: whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

121:48Guests: see him get a little spotlight moment to like get off, but I guess they gave that to Whitney. So like it all, it all works out, but like everything I was Whitney Cripwalking is a little bit more charged. Yeah.

122:00KT: Yeah.

122:02Guests: Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure, I'm sure. Like, I think me and KT were talking too, and like, there's probably tons of footage that just didn't make it into the video that, you know, we see, but, even like, you know, Dave Free is in the video, you know, dapping Kendrick up, and like, you see, like, just all kinds of things, like, just around, like,

122:25KT: think we're getting a, you don't think we're getting a West Coast remix?

122:28Guests: Oh, I absolutely think

122:29KT: maybe that's where Q's going to do his

122:31Guests: You think you're going to get a remix? You think there's a remix coming here? Here's what's happening. Cameron. I feel like this part I'm listening. I want to, I want to take it in. Here's Drake's. Problem at the moment, right? Like Not Like Us comes out. All right, it drops. Everybody's loving it. We're dancing to it.

122:50Guests: We're doing the whole thing. It's great. Right for people who maybe had, like, enjoyed the song, but like, it kind of fell out of rotation or like, you know, wasn't wasn't really hitting the way it used to. The video comes out and now it's like, we're running it back. We're playing the video. I mean, the video already has, like, 10 million plus views. Like, it's, it's

123:11KT: And I think

123:12Guests: We're doing it 23 million. It's 23 million. We're doing it all over again. Like what if you, if you, because when you see the video and you hear the song again, you're just like, yeah, this be like, I'm, I'm gonna do it again. Like at the end of the video, Dave Free's like, y'all wanna do it again? It's like, yeah, let's this right it back. So now if you're Kendrick, it's just like, I mean, you might as well do a remix, right? So then like, you know, come August,

123:38KT: Like, Welcome to

123:38Guests: do it again.

123:39KT: Welcome to Atlanta had like 5 million remixes.

123:43Guests: Right. No, there's going to be a, there's going to be a black, it's going to be Black Hippy It's going to be YG. Uh, probably Westside Boogie. And, you know, you can get, I mean, there might be, it might go, I would love to see what's that boogie on, on this. That'd be great. But I'm saying it might go to that place of, you know, welcome to Atlanta.

124:03Guests: Welcome to, you know, all of those words, just like, we're going to go around. We're going to go to long beach. We're going to go to, uh, Yeah. Compton, we're going to go, you know, all over Los Angeles, we're going to go up to Oakland and get E-40. We're going to go, you know, all around and, like, have all of these different people dropping verses, you know, you might not get 16, you might get 8, you know, it might be a little 8 bar, like, sparses around, but he's going to, he's going to run it back again.

124:32Guests: Right. And so like the lifespan of the song is only gonna keep going. And then, like we mentioned before, when we get into HBCU football band season, it's gonna come back again. It's gonna like, it's oh, oh, you know, you're gonna hear it on the football field. It's, it's running to the end of the year. 'cause then the Grammys are gonna come around and you know it's gonna get nominated for Grammy, you know it's gonna be nominated for it back around.

124:53Guests: Yo, it's Drake. He's nominated for Song of the year. I will, I will lose my shit. I will. Drake cannot, he can't get away from it. He's, He's gonna have

125:01KT: When, okay, but when we

125:02Guests: on Family Matters.

125:03KT: when we say, you know, do you think like, so you reckon, do you reckon can we

125:09Guests: Oh. Do you

125:10KT: will, do you reckon? that record?

125:14Guests: Absolutely. Well, again, he, on Family Matters, Kendrick opened his mouth, give him a Grammy right. Yes. Yes. Give him a Grammy for, for Not Like Us. It is gonna be a problem. That's what I'm saying. He I don't know what he does, because at every attempt that he's tried to act unbothered, which You know who's unbothered? It's J. Cole. Right? J. Cole

125:38Guests: My guy's actually writing lyrics in the park. At Moment disappeared. You didn't see him until some random fan encountered him on a beach reading a book where they happened to take a picture of. That's what that man was doing. That's a happy man. That guy is like, I'm so glad I'm out of this. Oh my God. That's what a bothered looks like, not. I'm posting a picture to tell you that I'm unbothered. That lets me know that you're very bothered. You know what I mean? So

126:05KT: Wah Gwan Delilah.

126:09Guests: man, I can't believe that's an actual release. I cannot believe that's an actual release.

126:13KT: And they said

126:14Guests: never escaping

126:15KT: like a weird owl thing. And I'm like, who cares? It's still bad.

126:18Guests: It's bad. You did a bad job. Well, not right now, right? Like if that was like, part of an SNL sketch or like, you know, something like that. Sure. Sure. That's the SNL sketch. It's goofy. Right, as a song you release post beef? No. The song you release post beef is the best fuckin song you've ever made in your life.

126:42Guests: Not this, that's how you have to come back. If you don't release the best Drake song ever, like, that's the same thing with J. Cole, where it's just like, Grippy? Like, I hope that wasn't your decision to have that come out right after this, because you should have said, Hey, guy, I've just been through some things, and maybe right now is not the time to release the song. I'd like to

127:07KT: all your girls are bad. All your girls are bad. But I wanted you specifically. Now she's strickily

127:13Guests: Yeah. That's a

127:15KT: okay, sir? You know why? Cause he hasn't, he hasn't got his cheeks pinched. That's why. He hasn't had his cutie patootie phase.

127:24Guests: I love it. The cheek pinch, and then he's like, thank you. Like, oh my god,

127:29KT: you seen the uwu edit? Yeah.

127:35Guests: This is, it's beautiful. I'm so happy to be here. I'm saying there's a part in the Not Like Us video that gets me every time. And that's, uh, when it's him and Mustard in the, in the car driving through the city and, you know, it's, it's the. You know, Fetch Gatorade or something line and like Kendrick can't even finish it because he's just smiling.

127:57Guests: He's just smiling in the car. He's not even around anymore. He's just What's crazy? I love that they're just popping out to go get some chicken. Like, that's There go the Tam's. They're just going to go get the chicken.

128:06KT: be up in Tam's. I'll be up in Stockton. I didn't do it for the gram. I do it for Compton.

128:11Guests: Oh, yep. Yep. You know, so he's, he's, this is very much The city, you know, and I also love some of the parts where they drop the track out to just have the crowd Singing along or chanting along on the back Because again, you could tell like all of his videos always very well, you know orchestrated like, you know There's a lot of thought but I would say he's the best.

128:35Guests: I would say he's the best I would say he did the thing. Yeah now Kendrick Lamar is the best maker of music videos He did the thing again upsets You upsets everybody, which is what he did at the beginning of the Alright video, where it's just like, okay, so you're gonna put this song

128:52KT: A banger. Yeah.

128:53Guests: in front of this, and I don't think I'm ever gonna hear the rest. I think this is all I'm ever gonna get, is this six second snippet of, like, And then we're just going to be like, yeah, that part. Oh, yeah. It's like, all right. Well, it did make me think like some new music was coming on the way. And then, you know, but, you know, even after that, we still got untitled unmastered. We still got stuff, you know? Yeah. I feel like we're going to get stuff after this, you know?

129:23KT: but I think that's why, like, cause I think on some level I care more about, well, the wellbeing of the artists, but also the artistry as well. Like if it takes time to cook because you need to live life, like fine. You know, and also like, you know, not Whitney love you respectfully. I'm thirsting from afar, but I don't feel like Kendrick ever left my life. You know what I mean? Like he was always.

129:45KT: There, I could always like tap into it. and Oti and I were talking today and I was like, I feel like, first off, it feels like the duo of like Fuqua, Washington, Scorsese, Leo, with Dave Free, I can't do it without being like Dave Free, and Kendrick and Kendrick Lamar, Kind of feels like Jordan Peele in the sense of like, when Get Out first came out and people were like, Oh, Allison Williams character is separating her cereal from her milk and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

130:14KT: And Jordan Peele's like, no, she's just a psychopath. And that's why, why she has a cereal separately. And I feel like there's so many layers to what Kendrick and pgLang do as a team creatively that people are like. You know, being able to find new layers every time, because personally, if it was just people jumping up and down for the whole song, I would have been happy with that, but it's that level of storytelling and artistry and matching that to lyrics that we've heard for over a month, you know, and breathing life into that.

130:52Guests: uh, I forget what line it's over, but where he's like standing and kind of like the darkness. And then you see Drake in the from dark line demo tapes, trying to like creep up on him. And then he gets like, swept away by the spirit of Compton. I'm like, Wow, that's filmmaking.

131:12Guests: Well, and I think that's, that's ultimately, you know, where, where this is gonna wind up in terms of how we remember this moment, is that like Kendrick, throughout, not just masterful, but like. So calculated, right? Like, everything that he's done has been, like, the ultimate deconstruction of Drake, and it's crazy to watch in real time, because, like, the further we go along, the more you're just like, he really thought about everything. He really, he really had this planned out, yeah. Like, he

131:52KT: it was the Pop Out. I'm sorry. Just quickly. It was the Pop Out line. Cause it was after the beat your ass and hide the Bible if God watching. And then sometimes you've got to pop out That was the scene that you're talking about. Certified

132:04Guests: like, he Certified boogeyman. Yes, yes. But he played into that, right? Like everybody was like, Oh, Kendrick's the boogeyman. Yeah, you know, that was whole, you know, Drake's whole thing was like, I'm not scared of you. And then you see, I mean that, first of all, it's, it's, it's really playing up the age old, you got to watch out for the quiet ones, right?

132:26Guests: You got to watch out, you know, not, not the one that's out here puffing his chest saying how he's going to beat your ass, but the one that you talked shit to and all they had to say was, all right. All right. Okay. For real? Yeah. No, I'm just saying in life, that shit is scary, bro. If somebody's like, you know what?

132:45Guests: I'm going to come over here. I'm going to be talking that shit. I'm going to beat your ass, man. You're like, okay. All right. And then you don't see him for like a week and you're like, and then literally a fist comes out of nowhere. Cause that's the thing. This is the, this is the getting punched. He hasn't forgot about anything.

133:04Guests: Not one thing over the course of this, this decade long, you know, cold war. Like all of it has been in the back of his mind. He's been taking notes. He's been moving away. He says, how many stocks do I really have in stock? 1, plus 5. I believe that. I believe that there is more that he did not, you know, whatever you want to believe he had pre recorded or ready to go or whatever, or had pre written or, you know, any of that, you know, sure, but I, I think he, Once it was time, once it was clear, once the lines had been drawn and the declarations had been made, this, he lives for this.

133:43Guests: You know what I mean? Like, he could turn things around like that. He's in the studio. He's ready to go. He's, he's had the whole game plan mapped out. But again, you look at how Drake has moved, where he just assumed this was Meek Mill all over again. This was Pusha T all over again, like, I'm just gonna do, I'm, hey, I'm going on vacation.

134:03Guests: So, you know, why don't you think about all the things I just said, and, and live with that, right? Meanwhile he's on vacation and he's, like, a cultural moment is happening fully around him, about his own demise. There was, uh, this was like early Twitter days, but there was that woman who I think she tweeted something about Black people, and then she got on the plane, and then by the time

134:27KT: Oh yeah. She's going to Africa. Wasn't she

134:29Guests: Yeah, yeah. Uh, and that's that's Drake, you know what I mean? He he he sent out Family Matters, he got on the plane, I I'm about to go, and the second he lands, it's like, Oh, could you imagine, could you imagine taking a flight and it like arrived in the new city and they were playing it on the, at the airport.

134:48Guests: He's like, Oh shit. Like the Mr. Krabs, like, Oh, Oh no. Oh no. Cause somebody, I mean, that's somebody on his team's job. Somebody had to be like. So, Aubrey, uh, so, you know, you should, you should listen to this because I think we've got, we've got a new diss track here that maybe, okay, I'm going to leave the room now, but you can press play when you're ready, you know, and just text me whenever, you know, whenever you feel, but, uh, don't, don't yell at me, please.

135:25Guests: Yeah, every step of every step of the way. It's, it's, it's Sideshow Bob with the rakes, you know what I mean? Like, every step he takes it's just, like, right back in his face. Like, he can't get away from it. And Kendrick the whole time, like we said, like, he was just doing whatever he was doing, doing pushups in the park, hanging out, you know, living his life, you know. Again, talk about unbothered,

135:50Guests: like, it was like, all right, you know, it's time for war. I'm built for this, so I'm just going to do what I got to do and then drop my kids off at school. Can you imagine recording Not Like Us and then taking your kid to like soccer practice? On the, on the low low, just like, and just sitting there thinking like, What a beautiful day it is outside. This is going to be crazy.

136:15KT: I wonder what Jermaine Cole is up to. I hope he's also looking at the same sky that I am as

136:21Guests: Right. Exactly. Exactly. I still love, I still love the, it's nothing's been confirmed, but I very much so believe the story of Schoolboy Q going to J. Cole's

136:32KT: Yeah oh absolutely.

136:34Guests: pulling him aside and saying, Hey brother, I got to pay. I know, I know what you think is happening right now, but I'm just going to play the song for you and then you can let me know. Is that a story? Is that a story that you, with the Dreamville Festival, was like, hey dawg, I need you to like, back down. Well, he, I mean, he didn't tell him to back down. He just told him like, No, no, no. But you're,

136:59KT: what you think it is. Yeah yeah yeah.

137:01Guests: Like this, this is coming down the pipe and you should, you should just like, you know, be smart. You think we're about to go play a friendly pickup game at the park. Uh, Kendrick has it in the trunk. Yeah,

137:15KT: as well so just move accordingly. yeah,

137:21Guests: I think, you know, overall, like I said, when we look back at this moment, it's just going to be like, Damn, you know, from, from, from jump from, from like that to now, you know, I mean, like, it's just been moment after moment of this.

137:39Guests: I mean, people kept begging for it. People were like, yeah, you know, Kendrick, like you were saying, KT, I, as an artist, I very much so believe in. You gotta go away for a little bit, right? Like, you gotta go live life, you gotta soak it up, you gotta be a real person who's not, not even just like, you can be, you can be working, you know, you can be thinking about the work, you can be, you know what I mean?

138:01Guests: Like, but, if, Not only if it's your life, you know, as in like, you literally have nothing else, you know, you don't have family, you don't have friends, you don't have hobbies, you don't have pastimes or any things that you do to kind of get away from it, but like, if you're not living as an actual person, if you're not Trying to work on yourself if you're not trying to, you know, experience new things to grow to do all that stuff because you do that outside, you know, when nobody's looking and then when you bring it back to the work,

138:31Guests: it's like, Whoa, you know, look at, look at that. Look at again, look at the David Bowie, look at the Prince, look at, you know, all of these people who are able to continuously reinvent themselves and come back because they were never satisfied with the last time they always thought I could do it better. I can do a different, I can do something new, but they didn't do that by just sitting in a studio.

138:52Guests: You know, not doing anything, not meeting new people, not talking, not thinking, not learning. Not having new experiences. Yeah. They were always on the, on the, on the lookout for, and that feels very much like what Kendrick is always doing is he's always taking a step back to kind of soak it in and look at the world around him and then bring that to whatever the new record is.

139:11Guests: Whereas compared to Drake, who's just like, I just, I just go to the studio, record 20 songs. And put them on the record, keep them all on the record. Yeah, do the next thing, you know, and I never really take the time to grow or change as an artist. And so, like Like you said, we're looking at, you know, the culture versus industry debate

139:36Guests: and the movement, and I guess really the question is out of this, not only necessarily where do Kendrick and Drake go, you know, career wise, but like, in terms of how we look at how artists position themselves, right?

139:48Guests: Like, there's going to be Drakes, there's always going to be Drakes, like, I've Not this. I mean, it's, it's, it's looking worse for him. But initially I was like, Drake is the LL Cool J of the time where he's kind of like, Hey, you know, he's, he can rap tough when he wants to, but then he's also got the sensitive side. He makes the music for the ladies

140:11KT: But I bet he wasn't in a horror franchise writing erotica as a security guard like LL Cool J in Halloween H2O,

140:20Guests: Or, or the chef on a uh, The chef on a dude, uh, shark trip, shark rescue boat in Deep Blue Sea. That lived! And he lived! If I'm Drake, I act. I say, hey, anybody got something for me out here? Or can I make a movie or whatever? Cause like, I need to get away from this

140:41KT: Would you be down with a Wiz remake with Drake as the Wiz?

140:47Guests: let's, let's. Put a pin in that because

140:51KT: like, no.

140:52Guests: brother. What's that? Not not that particular thing. But I was thinking about it Wiz remake and I do want to revisit that at our Wiz conversation. That's that's my controversial Wiz hot take that I have. Um, my recasting of The Wiz for a modern era.

141:13KT: Is there, I'm so glad we got to the Not Like Us video, because I was saying to Jordan, like we're going to record either way at this time, but if the video comes out, we can record later and we'll just add it to the podcast feed. So I'm glad that we got to where we needed to go. Is there anything else you want to say? Not forever. Hold your peace because you know, life goes on, but is there anything else you want to say before we get onto the B side?

141:37Guests: I mean, I, again, what I will take away from the video itself is, one, just, like, Kendrick looks so half Yeah, happy that happy to be with his, his family, his wife and children, you know, just like hanging out doing what they do all of his people, all the TDE with him, you know, like, it was really, it was a homecoming, you know, but it was also just like a real true expression of who he is as a person and in Los Angeles to like, you know, He hates them.

142:19Guests: And I think that's, you know, again, when people were just like, what's, what's his deal? What, like, why does he, what's going on? Because when I first heard Euphoria, you know, I was, I was listening to it. And when you got to the, you know, I hate the way that you walk, the way that you talk, the way that you dress, I was like, Oh, he just hates this nigga.

142:39Guests: Like, I, I get it now. Like, I, you know, I mean, at first I was kind of like wondering, I was waiting for, again, some kind of explanation of like, you remember back in 2006 when you were like, you know, the time we were on tour or, you know, it was like, Oh no, I just don't like you at a foundational level.

142:58KT: like. there's definitely poetry, but there's also pure hate.

143:02Guests: Yeah. Like everything that you represent, I've been close to you. I've been around you. I've had conversations with you. I don't like you. And like, I think everybody in their life has somebody, maybe not to that level, but just like, the general vibe, the general idea of them being around them. It's just, it repulses you.

143:24Guests: You don't like them. They really get on your nerves. And not even on like a, You know, that, that one thing they do, you know, that habit. No, just personality. Yes. From, from top to bottom. You're like, you know, every time they walk in the room. Right. And that's everybody can relate to that. You know what I mean?

143:45Guests: And so that I think just seeing him express that in multiple ways from the music to the Pop Out to the music video. It's just like, I'm here for all of it. Cause I get it. I see the vision. I see, I see where all of this and that's what I'm saying. It may never end, because that's never gonna end. That's not that part's never going to end.

144:05Guests: He's never gonna stop hating him. He will always have that energy for him. Forever. You know, when people are like, Oh, you know, they're gonna have, you know, like a Shaq and Kobe moment, where like, you know, years later, they sit down with each other and like, No. It's not gonna be any, any 2036 Reconciliation where they like, you know, do a song together. No. Like this is.

144:32KT: it's like the opposite of a rom-com where it's like it's been you all along. I've hated you all along, and I will continue to hate you forever.

144:41Guests: There you go. It's a hate comm. I'll watch that. I'll watch that too.

144:46KT: Cameron, thoughts? Any closing thoughts?

144:49Guests: Um, I'll just say I've never, like, been witness to such a, like, beautiful victory lap, you know? Like, sure, you know, I've seen, like, victory laps before that were, like, you know, cool, you earned it, great. But, like, this one is, like, it brought Kendrick closer to me as, like, the artist to the consumer.

145:15KT: hmm.

145:16Guests: Closer to his family, closer to his city, closer to the music, like, it made it about the music, like, I feel like, in a weird way, sadly, that this is, like, fueled by hate, but it's, like, the most positive I've seen rap in, like, such a long time, and I, I felt like I needed it, I felt like I was missing just that part about it. And the fact that it just brought everybody together, like the world is tearing each other apart, you know, it's, it's a, it's a rough world outside.

145:47Guests: And I feel like this is weirdly the thing that ours is bringing back people together. You know, I'm just, I'm so happy to see that, you know, I'm, I'm big on positivity because I feel like, I feel like as time goes on, we're just getting less and less of it in culture and like the things we do and the things that motivate people.

146:08Guests: Yeah. And, like, to see that this is, like, sadly, it's, it's, you know, built on hate, but it only brought everybody together, I'm happy for that. To that, to that end, I will say, wow, we thought Twitter was dead. It's, uh. And pay Kendrick dividends for what he's literally because literally my timeline is straight up for the past month has been Not Like Us has been like, we're talking about the Pop Out we dissect in the video we like the traffic. I'm sure is doing the real numbers because of this thing.

146:49Guests: In real time, again, when the podcast was going on, everybody was live tweeting, everybody was reacting together in unison, like when the video dropped, everybody was No, remember we was talking about, we was talking about, uh, how, how, uh, they've aired it on Amazon, but Kendrick was like, nah, let them niggas restream, let them have this.

147:12Guests: Because, you know, I'm not going, I'm not going to, like, rip all this stuff down off of Twitter and off of YouTube. Let the people have it. This is what it's about. It's not about, like, making the money for Amazon. It's about spreading the message for everyone. He removed all the rights and restrictions from Not Like Us, well, from all the songs on the beef, so that anybody who was reacting to it On YouTube was able to monetize it and get money from it.

147:36Guests: And I can tell you, I've never watched so many reaction videos in my life. That's true. Each each song. I was just like, all right, here we go. I don't I found people that I like it. Like, I will continue to watch the content that they do. But it's just like, you're going around and just like, okay. This has a lot of views.

147:56Guests: Who's this person? This person. Okay. This looks interesting. Just watching different people react to it. You know, the people that you know, like Fantano and like all them, but then just like people that I didn't know. And I was just like, I want to see what black people have to say. And you can, and you can now, and we're finding audience, you're finding community, you're finding community around stomping out Drake.

148:17Guests: And I couldn't, there's no better reason to me. There's no better reason. So yeah, shout out to Ken again, like another one for him of just like, you know, bringing people together through social media, bringing people together through content creation where he's just like, I, this is, I have money. I am fine.

148:35Guests: I don't care. Let me give y'all something to take with you. You know what I mean? Let me about that line. I'm about that you guys, because that's, you know, Drake's new thing is that, oh well, like all these bots, all these, you know, he's paying for streams, he's paying for, nobody could hate me that much, that this song has, uh, however many millions of streams this fast, you know?

148:56Guests: What do you mean? How does that work? He's learning. He is learning. He is finding out. He fucked around, and he found out. Yeah, well, I mean, because, you know, allegedly, Drake is the one with the bots that, you know, has been working behind the scenes. So again, it's such a weird energy of just like, you can tell, you can tell a person like Drake, right? Where like, all of their insecurities point outwards, right? Everything that

149:21KT: it. Yeah, Yeah.

149:26Guests: know what I mean? And they try to put that that's that's their first method of attack is like, you know, well, you're because women don't love me. It's not possible for you to be in a loving relationship. You're there's no way you could have that because I don't because there's no way I'm Drake. I definitely haven't. She doesn't follow you on Instagram. Proof. Yeah. She doesn't love you. Well, she is also crip walking on your grave along with our children. So what, what about that, sir? You know,

149:59KT: ears.

150:01Guests: exactly. Let's zoom in on the ears.

150:06KT: What I will say, though, is like Positivity, yes. Hating, yes. But I would also say that it is bringing a back to center. It is bringing a lens back on black culture. not to say that Drake isn't black because I don't play into that. But if we talk about the way that Drake was pointed towards the audience and Kendrick was only laser focused on him.

150:31KT: He's like, you're a problem, you need to go. And even if you're talking about Hollywood and making sure that people are paying The people telling the stories are the ones with the experiences, right? Like, I guess you could call that hating, but for me, it's just correcting what was already wonkily built in the first place. You know what I mean? For the commodification of, but yeah, that's, that is it. No one else has anything else to say about.

150:58Guests: Oh. I mean, we have now done collectively six hours of podcasting. Specifically about this beef. I, I mean And I got more takes! So Eh! No, I love it. I love it.