SFF – Mistress Dispeller, Farming the Revolution & How to Train Your Dragon

Full transcript of SFF – Mistress Dispeller, Farming the Revolution & How to Train Your Dragon.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, and it is another sizzling hot muy caliente announcement, Oti.

0:08Oti: Mm

0:10KT: uh, well. I guess before we even do the announcement, um, lots of love, lots of sloes. We just wanna take some time out to thank all of our friends and lovers, especially the ones that joined us from our very first episode of Black Panther. If you didn't, you can just join us now. Don't worry about it. It would actually, I don't even know. Would you even want people hearing the audio of the first episode?

0:37Oti: No. No.

0:39KT: Um, but we have a very exciting announcement, friends and lovers, if you've been following us along. We started this podcast in February of 2019. Um, we put ourselves forward for Rotten Tomatoes and the podcast got tomato meter approved in January of 2023. What that means is that, uh, anything that we, um. Review has the ability to have pull quotes, so we also contribute to the tomato meter. Um, so you know, lovers and haters if you, if you disregard or you regard the tomato meter. Um, through the podcast we were able, we are able to log our pull quotes and ever so nastily ever so independently, ever. So, Oti Ali, um, we. In July of 2025, were individually tomato critic approved.

1:40Oti: Mm-hmm.

1:41KT: So what does that mean, Oti? What does that mean to you? What does it mean in general? What does that mean for our friends and lovers?

1:48Oti: It means now that we don't need to necessarily. Pull our pull quotes from podcast episodes for it to be tomato meter, um, approved or to count towards tomato meter, uh, score.

2:04KT: It also means if I start like a K drama podcast, which you're more than welcome to co-host through Meti, um, those pull quotes. So anything that we create as a part of, um, you know, but mommy and daddy are not splitting. Um, we still love each other and we're still gonna do the thank the nasty thing that we all know and come here for friends and lovers. Um, but yes, it's very exciting. Um, I don't know, like, I guess let's be vulnerable on the main for a second. I think we should have some sort of, whether it's like a pre-roll like clip or something, we, we need to like, let people know.

2:45Oti: We just let them know.

2:46KT: Like at, at the front of every episode, you can be the one to say it every time. Like, I think it's cool, but it feels weird, doesn't it to say it.

2:54Oti: Uh, it's, it's, it's cool. Like, yeah.

2:58KT: All right. Well, I, I guess look out for Oti soundbites, um, moving forward, but you know, we're back at it. Like we never left and we're going to bring you some more reviews. We are finally getting to, um, round off our Sydney Film Festival coverage, which is great 'cause there are other film festivals that are actually on the way, um, as well. So let's get on with the show. How ho friends and lovers, welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host. KT

3:36Oti: and Oti,

3:38KT: welcome to Ref Max. Uh, we will be, uh, rounding out our Sydney Film Festival coverage. Um, uh. Fortunately, unfortunately we did have the opportunity to watch it. The unfortunately is that a lot of these films aren't even available yet to watch in Australian cinemas, um, or even on streaming services. I have seen that On Becoming a Guinea Fowl is available on HBO Max in America. I saw that. Yeah. Did you see that?

4:08Oti: I did. I did shout out to

4:09KT: Ana my favorite film of the year next to Sinners.

4:12Oti: Mm.

4:13KT: I was having a really radden. Sad and uh, ye that's, yeah, all

4:20Oti: our American friends need to watch that.

4:22KT: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Um, today we have a great collection. Um, some of them I was on the KT Boulevard of Dreams, walking on my own. Um, but we, we, we are going to top and tail it if you're nasty. Um, together. So we're going to start off with Mistress Dispeller again, friends and lovers, they will. Be some interviews that we had the opportunity to have. Um, so we'll put it in the show notes. Mistress Dispeller is one of them. I was able to interview, um, the director Elizabeth. So take us away. Oti, non-spoiler thoughts.

4:58Oti: Mistress Dispeller offers striking, fly-on-the-wall intimacy unfolding with quiet tension and care, uh, revealing portrait of love, betrayal, and the delicate lines in between.

5:11KT: Hmm. Elizabeth Lo's warm approach cuts through the salaciousness of affairs and allows the audience to live through the realities of all involved. Fuck the husband. But that won't be on the pull quote.

5:29Oti: What can I say? Written there.

5:32KT: We'll see how bold I'm feeling, uh, at the time of submitting the pull quote. But, um. So friends and lovers, this is a documentary, uh, that, you know, just like OTM, my Own, uh, pull quote, talks about a industry, a relatively new industry, um, in China of mistress dispellers. So it's not necessarily, um, it's not necessarily Perry Mason. I really miss Perry Mason, by the way. I do

6:04Oti: too.

6:04KT: Matthew Rhys, we saw you be sad in another show, on a mountain, in a lighthouse, but please, well, it's, it's outta your control. But we do miss Perry Mason. Um, so it's not, not to the salacious level of Perry Mason breaking up marriages. Um. But it, it very much is finding, I would say a gentle, like a gentle way of trying to, it's not breaking marriages. You're trying to fix a marriage. Yeah. Right. Um, it's kind of like, is it ghost hunters?

6:34Oti: Mm-hmm.

6:35KT: Like they, they're coming in like to try and dispel literally in the name, so

6:42Oti: Ghostbusters or Ghost Hunters, the, the. I filled Ectoplasm running down my leg.

6:49KT: I think the Ghost Hunter was on you. 'cause I'm pretty sure that's what I said 30 seconds ago. Um, so it's about a new industry and you know, there was even a title card at the start of the documentary saying that, you know, everyone agreed to this cut of the film. Right? And as you watch it, you're like, how the fuck did they get this access? Because it feels. Intimate, as you say, but it feels too personal. Like it feels like how, and you know, even in the interview, um, you know, Elizabeth talked about how a lot of the time they weren't even on set. Like they would just leave the cameras there and be in a different room. And it also speaks to the credit of making it, like getting it made, because you can feel when it feels a bit exploiting, like, um, I wouldn't say exploited, but you can feel when it feels, uh. The dominoes fell into place because that's how they put them, like the last journey. Mm, for example. So, um, I guess take us away as our residential. I know you always have to wear the title as the residential, um, black representative, African representative, but now you take the man representative. I don't know if you, if you prefer that over your other titles, but, um, I actually do want to hear from your point of view, what was it like? Watching this. 'cause the trailer was like the husband, the wife, the mistress. They're all in pain. And it's like, come on man.

8:27Oti: It was sad. Like it was sad seeing the wife try, stick in there, try and do stuff for the family and the man being sort of, I, I wouldn't say checked out.

8:43KT: He was checked out,

8:44Oti: but you could tell there's a chasm between them that just where love used to be, maybe not, it's not a

8:53KT: chasm. The eyes are wandering around. The chasm is between the bridge of the eyes.

9:00Oti: I think he, he just loves her differently. Not in the, you know, intimate way. No,

9:05KT: no. I refute that. I refute that because he did want excitement in life. He just didn't care to explore it with his own wife.

9:15Oti: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, it, it was, it was heartbreaking to watch it, especially feeling not, it was hard not feeling sorry for the wife. Uh, because through through the whole process you are constantly thinking about her and how this affects her and, and just seeing the treatment where I'm like, you are acting like this and there's cameras around. Like bra, you don't even change to try and pretend as say, if you're carrying on in a different way.

9:43KT: Oh, you mean the husband?

9:43Oti: Yeah.

9:45KT: Especially 'cause the way that the mistress dispeller found her way into the life. 'cause they, they actually insert themselves into the dynamics. He didn't even know this woman and he was telling her all this shit too

9:59Oti: open.

10:00KT: Yeah. But I said it when we were watching it, and I also said it in the interview as well, I was like, bro, like if you, if you describe another woman as the sun and you describe me as some fucking dead carpet or something, like we're done. Like, what else is there?

10:17Oti: Yeah. Yeah. It gave me the whats in there and David was

10:23KT: Malcolm and Marie.

10:24Oti: Yeah. Ugh. It, it gave me that vibe where I'm like, it, it didn't feel right, me being in that space watching it.

10:32KT: No, but this felt real. It it, Malcolm and Marie was theatrical. Oh, you didn't feel intensity?

10:39Oti: Mm. I don't know. I, I just felt uncomfortable watching that,

10:44KT: but Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Everyone's Huey Loverboy, Simon Pegg. He was in the Criterion Closet and he was picking out films. I think it might've even been Blue Velvet, and he was talking about with his kid and explaining to his kid, sometimes art is supposed to make you feel uncomfortable. It's not always for entertainment. So I, Simon KT. Pegs a lot would like to implore that into this film that maybe it is. Okay. And maybe it is the point that this documentary is uncomfortable. My male representative of the For Your Reference podcast,

11:36Oti: I, I'll take it. It's,

11:39KT: it was like On Becoming a Guinea Fowl. You were uncomfortable with that too. And I was also speaking truths to men less desirable than others.

11:48Oti: Am I wrong? I used try to start drawing our pattern, eh? There's a pattern here.

11:56KT: Yeah. That's why the pattern repeats itself, because the pattern isn't realizing it's a pattern.

12:03Oti: Um, but I'm with you.

12:04KT: Just, just, just some food to digest, you know, just some food for thought, some tasting morsels, uh, friends and lovers. But let's move on to the next one. This is for me specifically. Um, this is a documentary. It's called Orwell: Two Plus Two Equals Five. Mm.

12:24Oti: Quick maths. Mm.

12:26KT: Yeah. It's essentially speaking to the fact that like people will try to convince you two plus two equals five, and you know it's not true. Right?

12:35Oti: Yeah. Alternative truths.

12:37KT: Damn bro. We're getting there. The teachings of Orwell take a more tragic, poetic turn for audiences as his historical views prove to still be challenging for well-meaning people today. I mean white, that's not gonna be in the pull quote, just like the other addendum that I put in Mistress Dispeller.

13:02Oti: Um, all

13:03KT: right.

13:03Oti: So,

13:04KT: so this documentary. Mm-hmm. It is. So George Orwell, um, in my most proximity reference Animal Farm, uh, it's about his diary entries in his final days. Mm, right. So there's a collation of, um, his works. There's a context on his life and just a general sort of rumination of, you know, a lot of the shit that he said so long ago is still very applicable to today,

13:38Oti: bro, we're still living in an animal farm, so

13:41KT: we're still living in an animal farm because there's fucking beasts everywhere and they're not fantastic. At all. Um, I think what I would say in regards to this documentary is, you know, for the most part, whenever we're doing reviews, we're very much focused on the content of the film that we're reviewing and we're critiquing. Right. But I feel like the very notion of this documentary is to be able to highlight. What is, what isn't, what's right and what's manicured to be right? You understand?

14:26Oti: Mm-hmm.

14:27KT: And what's really frustrating, not about this documentary, but about the audiences that would watch this documentary is that a lot of well-meaning people Orwell is still radical to them. No, I'm serious. Like I'm not even being facetious, like I'm not even trying to be funny. It's actually fucking heartbreaking. And friends and lovers. If you've watched the first episode of South Park, it's so nice to have Randy and Sharon back. Um, like I might go religious 'cause like at what point, right. So in regards to this documentary. The way that the film starts is, 'cause I didn't know much about George Orwell, like his actual life, right? Mm-hmm. It actually opens up with how, you know, a lot of his life was spent in Southeast Asia, India specifically, and how he had, um, you know, an Indian nursemaid. Mm. Right. That in and of itself is a stark reflection. On the nature versus nurture and even the well-intentioned and the well-meaning, um, I wouldn't call it prophesying, but like the teachings of Orwell, right, he means well, but he also comes from a particular sort of background, right? Because even in the documentary he will talk about how he didn't really understand even working, like working class. You know what I mean? So as much as he was trying to understand, like obviously he was in like military police sort of capacities, but then he started to realize, yeah, it's kind of fucked how Europeans just go all over like Asia and Europe, right? Like that fucked, right? Mm. Like even Orwell is able to reconcile that, but it's very much done through, because at the end of the day, he was a white man in the context that he grew up in. So. For, for him to even have the views and the understanding. It is still, I think, a bit distanced from indigenous people, but he's still saying things that are way more radical than the way that well-meaning white people would, I guess, think that they're doing a good job today.

16:57Oti: Oh,

16:58KT: so that's when it feels more of a. A chu like this, this documentary feels like a figurine. This feels like something to have on a mantle piece, something that wankers at dinner parties will talk about theoretically, but never really talk to a black and brown person. Like, that's too much. That's that. That's too real. Um, I'm going to, I, I guess the, the best way that I can encapsulate my experience with this documentary is, you know, they even talked about the media. They talked about how the media is in control of a lot of western power. Like a lot of western powers control the media. Right. You talked about it, you know, fake news, alternate facts, and how that can really distort the way that people perceive, receive, and have access to information.

17:57Oti: Mm-hmm.

17:57KT: Right. I will, um, I, I will just, uh, encapsulate this in the day that I had, it was a Sydney film festival. The first, uh, screening that I went to go and watch this particular day was the very beautiful, um, My Father's Shadow. Mm. Um, you go and check out our interview with Akinola. Beautiful interview, beautiful film. There was a Q&A session. A middle aged white man stood up in the Q&A session and he said he's planning to go to Nigeria. There's only two places that haven't been flagged. And he literally said, can I go to Nigeria and not be killed? Will I be killed if I go to Nigeria? I know you are laughing in, in the stock. What the fuck? This is the fucking world we're in. But I need to make it very clear because it actually beautifully illustrates how I feel about this Orwell documentary, right? This white man, he had no need to get up. He didn't add anything to, it's such a beautiful film. My Father's Shadow. Yes, it said in Nigeria. But why are you also putting that? Onto a filmmaker. It had nothing to do with the film. Right?

19:14Oti: Yeah.

19:15KT: And then I go and get my little, a little, a little bit, a little bite to eat. And then I come back. I was actually planning on watching another film after this second one, after this Orwell documentary. When I get back to my seat, there's a middle aged white woman in my seat, and friends and lovers. You think I, I look for these experiences. I promise you I don't. And she was in my seat. Because she is a subscriber. She has a permanent seat at this particular venue, but she didn't wanna sit there because the man in front of her was too tall and she huffed and she puffed, and she went and sat in another seat That just happened to be my seat bet. I'm not gonna make a big deal out of it. I'm just gonna sit maybe a couple of seats to the side in case someone else comes and I need to move again. Right. And she's having a conversation with me after this Orwell documentary. And she asked me who? Who in the world you think these things don't happen? This white lady looked at my bag, I had a Palestinian tote bag. She was asking me what my thoughts were, and she asked me, do I condemn Hamas?

20:26Oti: Jesus.

20:28KT: And then she also pointed out, oh, no, no, I, I don't mean disrespect. I'm not as bad as the middle-aged man talking about Nigeria. She actually thought she was better than that man.

20:40Oti: Mm.

20:40KT: And she asked me how I felt and I said. Just like we watched in the See, I'm actually referencing the text, the material. I said just like we were watching the documentary, you also pointed out the big media and journalism that's going on Western Powers have an interest to not report on the genocide that is going on with Palestinians at the moment. And I think there needs to be a conversation around it. To which she asked me about my allegiances to, and I was like, at the end of the day, I'm indigenous and I, maybe that's a way that I can connect and I can understand it. To which she asked me if I had understood a different point in history, would I then be able to, I guess, be more understanding of. She didn't say it, but colonial genocidal powers, like what kind of conversation are we having? She talked about how sad it was that Orwell and and British people went into India and into Africa, but she couldn't understand the correlation with Palestine.

21:47Oti: Yeah. So it's just a matter of how hard can you squint,

21:51KT: right?

21:52Oti: Yeah.

21:53KT: These be some squinty ass motherfuckers. And anyway, so I think the documentary was fine, but it becomes an ornament. It becomes an ornament for well-meaning usually white people that will never really try to engage and change their world, which, you know, check out, um, The Haka Party Incident interview that I did, because I pointed it out. You just have white people going to documentaries. How can you have white people watching really real documentaries made by real people and the world is fucking worse. What's the point? Why don't you just sit in your, like, your closed-minded, narrow world? Why go and watch shit and then do nothing about it anyway, so I, I'm not looking to be, um. Klaus from Umbrella Academy and make my own cult, but I guess we'll see if I'm going to be the pure Christian PC KT principle. All right. The next documentary we're getting into, um, is Marlon Williams: Two Worlds – Ngā Ao E Rua. A timely film of the power of indigenous ways of knowing and creative expression. While there were glimpses of the man behind the scenes, there's more to explore of Marlon and our changing world.

23:14Oti: Oh, nice. So how did you feel about this one?

23:18KT: Cool. It was cool. Um. No, no shade to Marlon. I, I wasn't really familiar. Well, again, friends and lovers, unless it's Kendrick, I, I don't really know any music really. Um, but Marlon is a Māori musician. I think a lot of his career, well he's traveled all around the world. He was also in A Star Is Born.

23:38Oti: Oh really?

23:39KT: Yeah. Um, and he's traveled around the world. I think he was based in Melbourne a lot as well, doing a lot of gigs. So this documentary follows. The making of his album. And it's not just any album. It's an album in te reo and it was an important project for him, friends and lovers. Te reo is like the language of Māori people. So te reo Māori, um, you know. I feel like the, not the benchmark, but I feel like whenever we're trying to pull a documentary that doesn't dig as deep as perhaps we were hoping or wanted it to, we always reference Stylebender.

24:23Oti: Hmm.

24:23KT: Right. So, especially because Marlon is a musician, especially because he didn't make like pop music. What I. And again, it, it's, it's on me. It's my fault. But what I was hoping was that I really get to see deep, deep down in him, you know what I mean? And you know, even just like if they were to pick a song that was really emotional to him and him explaining that we didn't necessarily get any of that. And then he would kind of touch on like the relationship with his parents, but then it wasn't really. Like, show me who you are. You know what I mean? Especially because you can tell his music means a lot to him. Um, and then they kind of touched on the politics 'cause, you know, um, in, in, in the interview. But even just in general, we've talked about, um, in, in New Zealand, uh, in particular, um, that there is a suppression that's going on. There's a swinging of the pendulum in regards to, you know, um, how prominent. Indigenous knowledge as well as just schooling, education of Māori names, figures, history. Right. There's a regression or a, an attempt at regression. There is a clinging to conservatism in Aotearoa at the moment and they lightly touched on it. And I, I think that's quite interesting because to me. To make a whole album in Māori is political, and I think that's a good thing.

26:05Oti: Mm-hmm.

26:05KT: Right. Um, because then it can just be another album, you know? But I don't know if it was a matter of not. Making it scary. Like, like, so people can just get into it and not feel like tense all the time. But again, it, it's a time for reckoning and I think people should feel uncomfortable personally. But if you feel uncomfortable that one of your favorite artists or an artist you like listening to is making a, an album in their language, you are uncomfortable with that, then that's on you. You know what I mean?

26:38Oti: Hmm.

26:38KT: Like, we're so far past that indulging in my personal opinion. So yeah, like there was some nice moments. There was some moments where like you could see that Marlon, 'cause he, he talked about. Relationships and, and, and, and not necessarily feeling like he had a life that could have a relationship. Right. That's some real shit. And we never really got into that. Like, it kind of felt like maybe when it hit a bit close, um, whether it was a filmmaking decision or whether it was Marlon, but at that point, like, Hmm, maybe it's not the time to make the documentary.

27:14Oti: Yeah.

27:14KT: You know, and I'm not saying that we need to see you bleed, but also. Mm. Unless it's a behind the scenes. 'cause there were a lot of fans, like there were a lot of fans and they filled the time for the Q&A, which is cool. Um, but I don't think I necessarily learned anything about him mm-hmm. As a person. Does that make sense?

27:34Oti: Yeah.

27:35KT: So it was cool. It was a cool watch. Um, next one, Farming the Revolution. Nishta Jain offers on the ground access to farmer-led protests that made global news. In this film, we're challenged to broaden our scope of understanding of the working class and reckon with the sacrifice it takes to bring about a revolution.

27:58Oti: Okay, that sounds deep.

28:00KT: Yeah. I'm alive now. I'm rehydrated. I'm reincarnated. I'm a star gazer. Um. Something that's really interesting that we don't need to get into a lot of detail about, but friends and lovers, um, check out Monkey Man. We had an interview and we also, um, did a review episode. Uh, shout out to Oti for the name on our review episode.

28:25Oti: Mm-hmm. One of

28:25KT: our popular episode titles. Um. If you guys remember, or if you listened to that review, I talked about how hot off, uh, screening at South by Southwest. We were invited to watch Monkey Man before it became the, the broader sort of media screening, right? Mm-hmm. And we saw it. I got emotional. We loved it. Um. Yeah. And the second time we watched it, they actually changed the coloring of the power of the party of the government, right? Mm-hmm. And I felt a way about that. I said, 'cause even now, when I told you when we watched it the first time, I was like, I don't know how he made this film. Because it is very openly criticizing the Indian government and Modi at the moment, right? Mm-hmm. And then you realize, yeah, it was too much and they had to change the covering because it, it got too close to the current party at the moment, right? The actual footage that is used in the film of the violence is actually from these farmer protests.

29:32Oti: That's true.

29:33KT: And that's why I felt a way, because that's real shit. And you're distorting the imagery because pressure, because it became a, a major studio, not independent anymore. Those are real lives, bro. Like, and, and this is what we're coming to in this documentary. I think it was one of the first screeners that I watched as a part of Sydney Film Festival. And I was like, mm, we're getting somewhere. Um, I really love this documentary. Like, like I've said in the interview with Nishta, like it does what every good documentary should do. It gives you an understanding of what is happening, and it also has the context so you, it conveys the importance of it. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, this was in, in, in the middle of the pandemic. This was for over 12 months. Um, you know, thousands of lives. Um, were lost to the fight. Um, and unfortunately they're going out and protesting again because obviously the government didn't uphold what they said they were going to, to stop the protest in the first place. Well, I shouldn't say stop, I should say they came to an agreement, but if they recanted, then, you know, I, I guess the verbiage is also important as well, but, um, it's so inspiring to. You see how important it is. It's not necessarily about issues, it's about systems. It's about those that are in power. And what I really appreciated about the making of Farming the Revolution is that it wasn't just, we're all angry. 'cause obviously there is a rage. It's not just we're angry, it's let's educate everyone.

31:23Oti: Mm-hmm.

31:24KT: We are mad because you know, you know, you know what was so fucking, what is so fucking wild.

31:31Oti: Mm.

31:31KT: Farmers have their produce, right? Then you have these private, maybe even foreign companies that are buying these produce. Right? And then they're selling it back to the farmers and they can't afford it. Yep. What the fuck is that? Mm-hmm. And that was the current situation at the time of the protest. But what, what became the turning point for the protest was that these companies were going to be able to use the land of these farmers indefinitely. Unlimited all power.

32:06Oti: Jeez.

32:07KT: Because at what point does it become fucking enough, man?

32:11Oti: I dunno, shit, the way shit's going around the world in Kenya now, terrorism is being akin to, um, uh, protesting is being akin to terrorism.

32:22KT: But that's exactly it because how, uh, the, these peaceful protests always end up violent. There always ends up being a infiltrator, right? Mm-hmm. But that's the code and you know, friends and lovers, even in um, Happyend. Which was also part of Sydney Film Festival. There's a cheat code to it, right? It, it becomes violence. It, it, it becomes peaceful protest. But because there happens to be usually, well, we'll get into it later, but if, if there happens to be some sort of violence that comes out of those protests, those vi, that violence is then used to justify doubling down, keeping a thumb on the public, essentially.

33:06Oti: Mm-hmm.

33:08KT: And, and what I really loved about Farming the Revolution, it, it wasn't just, let's just protest, it's, we're protesting not just the Modi government, we're protesting these Western organizations that are really the reason why the government is a puppet.

33:24Oti: Yep.

33:26KT: You need to tap into that because that's where we become free. That's where you realize the work that needs to be done.

33:34Oti: Fact.

33:36KT: Ah, let's move on. What do we got next? Just as revolutionary, but in a, in a more intimate sort of setting. This is Make It Look Real. Make It Look Real explores the dynamic between filmmaker and actors in relation to filming intimacy scenes. Kate Blackmore offers a holistic lens with historical context as well as current goals of safety on set.

33:59Oti: Okay. I I, I remember this being one of your first interviews.

34:03KT: One of my first interviews. One of my first screeners.

34:06Oti: Yeah. So, uh, which you all better go and listen to. It was very intriguing to hear. So tell me more about your experience with this.

34:17KT: Well, thank you. I, I feel like I, I was, um, you know, being interviewed now, Oti, I appreciate that. Um, I loved it. I love this documentary. I love the way that Kate made this documentary. We watch a lot of. We watch a lot of shit and we groan. So we watch a lot of, uh, mature sexual in nature, vulgar shit cus stars give us House of Ashur. Stop fucking teasing it. Um, but, you know, we'll watch, um, you know, we'll watch intimacy scenes and I in particular will be like, hmm, I really hope they had an intimacy coordinator. And usually. You know, yes, I'm being biased, but usually it's, it's whenever there are women on screen, I just, I just want to know that they feel safe. And it's so interesting in this world, you know, even me, I'm a very sexual person, but it doesn't mean you need to sexualize me. It doesn't mean you should sexualize me. It doesn't mean you're entitled to sexualize me. And I think that's part of. That's part of the problem. It's not just that in entertainment, it's also in general, like men don't know what it means for a woman to be liberated sexually without it being a way to control women. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm.

35:41Oti: I hear you preach.

35:43KT: And I really, I really enjoyed this interview, Claire, um, this interview, sorry, this documentary, um, Claire Warden is an intimacy coordinator and I just really loved her approach to things. I think I related to it. Uh, she was just very matter of fact what needs to get done. Um, literally using Google Sheets to coordinate the sexy scenes. Um, you know, it's, it was really nice to see and. It's the hope, you know, you do hope that what you are consuming isn't obtained in gross ways. You know what I mean?

36:21Oti: Yeah. And, and it's that, it's one of those things where it needs to be sort of mandated as, uh, compulsory thing as a SAG member if you're doing a film Yeah. And have a coordinator. It's just the surface way to do things. Just like if you're handling guns on a scene, you need to have a safety supervisor there as well. Well, yeah. Same things, man.

36:46KT: Or even on the set of Succession, you need like a rich consultant. Yeah. Because if you're so rich, you're not ducking down with the helicopter blades.

36:54Oti: Mm-hmm.

36:56KT: Maybe those rich consultants can tell them to stay away from the orcas. No.

37:03Oti: Yeah, the

37:04KT: Ker Mangione Secret Meeting Friends and Lovers hit me off.

37:07Oti: R Sleeve, no diamonds A needed,

37:11KT: the only Audis driven by my old pair. Um, we're listening to clips, friends and lovers, but, uh, I, I really loved it. You know, there were even moments that were very emotional in this. Like, it's not surprising to know that Very vulnerable. Um. Very young women were taken advantage of. Um, and like, just to have a surprise, like just to have a surprise reaction. But it's like, bro, she's being assaulted on screen. Of course. She's like, of course, that's a reaction that she wasn't expecting. You know what I mean? Like, it's gross and we don't need that. We don't need that anymore. Um, but yeah, I, I, I think more power. To all of us sexually liberated women's, um, and, you know, like literally respect at the end of the day.

38:07Oti: Yeah, a hundred percent.

38:10KT: Wow. And now we're ending with a family friendly film. Huh? How to Train Your Dragon. T

38:19Oti: How to Train Your Dragon captures the heart of the original, with Hiccup and Toothless's bond shining through. While not every beat lands, the film's charm doesn't waver.

38:32KT: This is your Shrek all over again. What do you have against DreamWorks, Oti? What do you mean? While some things didn't land, it's a fucking kids film.

38:41Oti: Whoa. I can see that. I said it didn't shake, it didn't change the overall outcome of the film. But there were moments in the, in the theater I was like, bra, I could, I could be doing something else.

38:59KT: A thrilling live action that extracts the sweetness of the animated films and offers a visual adventure of love and friendship.

39:09Oti: Nice. I, I know you really had fun with it. Uh, because

39:13KT: it's a kid's. Okay, okay, okay. Okay, okay. Okay. Let's let, let's, let's get, let's get real. He's the skinny, Oti.

39:21Oti: I'll be the dipp.

39:24KT: My, I don't even know how you call it, but my, um, watching experiences are just that whatever I'm watching, whatever I'm experiencing is exactly that. When we come to rating shit out of five out of 10, is it weighted? Is that what it's called? In statistics, like for me, just because the limit is five doesn't mean. A five for a kid's movie is a five for a heart wrenching, sad ass indie ass film that I will love till the end of time. I might rate them, maybe not five, I might rate them four, but they're not the same four, I don't even know what that's called in statistics. Does that make sense to you? Yeah, I

40:17Oti: get you.

40:18KT: And that's what I'm saying, and this is why you didn't enjoy Shrek.

40:24Oti: I enjoyed. I haven't gotten it over that, by the

40:26KT: way.

40:27Oti: The thing is, right. I think the misstep I did was, or the misstep I think we did, was watching the, the original a day prior to watching the, the remake. And whilst they captured, I didn't think they'll be able to capture the magic of the original to that extent. Yep. It was beautiful. It really, really was. They didn't. Brilliant job and hats off to the animators and the directors of the CGIs. It was really, really good. Mm. Story-wise, though, halfway through I felt like the pacing I, I didn't feel as if it needed to be that long. Even though it felt like it was copy paste or lift and shift from the original, there was still aspects of like, mm, they're, they're losing me. Or, or the, the what? The delivery didn't match what was there before, so it was like, felt a bit different. Did that makes sense? Maybe it's the,

41:30KT: like, I feel like in animation there is a suspending of

41:34Oti: maybe that it, maybe that's it. It, it just felt like. And that's why like my mind started wandering and being like, oh bro, you know, but they still pulled me back in once they got back into, you know, the, the, the train of things. And that's just,

41:49KT: they didn't need a love story. Love Nico Parker didn't need a love story for this.

41:54Oti: Mm-hmm.

41:54KT: Um, I think if, 'cause I, let's be clear, I'm, I'm not saying that just 'cause it's a kid's movie, you can't have any qualms. So I'm not saying that, I'm just saying for me, if I rate something, it, it's on. Like it's in genre. Like if it's a kid's movie, 'cause this, for me, this is a four. But it doesn't mean it's, it's one of the most memorable experiences I'll ever have. Right. So I think one of the, if I were to have a big, big qualm with this film, it would be them trying to be political. That was very annoying. Of like, oh, these dragons. Dragons very bad. It's like, whoa. And then it always doesn't, it always feel weird when the rhetoric for dragons feels like you could. Insert it for indigenous people. You know what I mean? Why is it always the animals? Like, like, oh. And it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't Julian Dennison's character. It was someone's character being like, well, this is their lands after all. And I'm like, wow.

43:03Oti: Yeah.

43:04KT: this is why your man's Owo never made it out of the silo. Oti, all's his life, he has to fight, you know? Um, so I, I don't think you need that. I think if you wanna teach kids the differences, you literally look at the cast because you know it, it's not as if they're just like casting little white kids. Like everyone is diverse there. It's your whole poster, so you can teach kids differences from there. Um, but yeah, it, it felt a bit flat on that, and that's me. I'm like, I'm very political, um, without even trying. Right. Um, so I, I don't know, like, that I didn't necessarily care for, and actually see I have qualm, Oti, the other qualm that I would have is, well, first off, thank you for inviting us to the media screening in IMAX. But I don't know if IMAX added to it, but it might just be because I'm still riding my Sinners love train.

44:05Oti: I hear you. I, I feel like we've watched, uh, a couple of more movies in IMAX after Sinners and it just doesn't hit the same,

44:13KT: right? Mm-hmm. Anything else on Hiccup and Toothless?

44:18Oti: No. Uh, just. One of the better live action adaptations we've seen so far, which is, which says a lot.

44:31KT: Oh, thank you friends and lovers for draining us another week in the For Your Reference household. Um, Oti, do you wanna give any recommendations to stuff that we're watching at the moment? Maybe? Yeah. Uh, have a little, have a little podcast. Yeah.

44:50Oti: Uh, you mentioned South Park at the start of the app. Uh, glad it's back. It's one of those things that just hits the spot every single time.

45:01KT: Satire will always save you. Mm-hmm.

45:05Oti: Uh, Josh Johnson Yes. Has done Daily Show last week. Yeah. And he is brilliant. He, he really did a great job. Mm-hmm. I recommend you go and watch it. I think there are clips of it on YouTube as well. Uh, yeah, that's what I'm enjoying. You know, John Oliver's been John Oliver in, uh.

45:30KT: Um, you see, why were you, why did you keep pointing out when I said Squid Games? But you can say, John Oliver's or you telling me there's more than one.

45:45Oti: It's, it's the glasses.

45:50KT: Um, I also forgot to say it at the start of the episode, but, um, I. When we applied for the individual critic, um, application for Rotten Tomatoes, you actually have to give three examples of reviews that demonstrate your ability to critique, um, from a unique perspective, adding to the discourse of film discussion. Mm. Right. Um, and I I just wanted to read the ones that we have. Oti had Malcolm X, Rafiki and Judas and the Black Messiah.

46:32Oti: Mm.

46:34KT: And I had Monkey Man, Killers of the Flower Moon and Bamboozled.

46:40Oti: Nice. I, I'm pretty sure One Night in Miami would've made it somewhere in there. We

46:45KT: need a do it birth.

46:47Oti: We could have Aquarian conversation about it.

46:51KT: I think the coherence was lost when the melodies didn't miss ya. Um, but yeah, I, I, I guess, you know, thank you friends and lovers for supporting the podcast in every way. That you can, um, honestly like it, it means a lot to me, especially in this AI slop, uh, dominated algorithms all over social media and even the way that we can even post, I don't even bother trying to post like sound clips from our podcast because shit gets flagged and, uh, we are wholly independent. Um, and it means a lot that we're able to. Do what we're doing, love what we are doing, even get opportunities that, you know, it, even if we were to lose opportunities by having our platform, but we don't seem to, you know, um, and to be recognized and to be individually approved. I think for me, that's when it felt real. I don't know why with the podcast being tomato meter approved, for me it still felt like, Hmm, are we, are we still able to. Speak with our full chest in rooms. You know what I mean?

48:05Oti: Mm-hmm.

48:06KT: So it feels good. How do you feel, Oti, while we're finishing off?

48:09Oti: Yeah, it does feel good. Um, been doing it for, what, close to five years now?

48:17KT: Over five years. We started in 2019.

48:19Oti: Oh, there you go. So locked and loaded.

48:24KT: Locked and loaded. Is that gonna be your pull quote for Mortal Kombat too? I'm alive, Karl Urban. Uh, well actually while we're finishing off, Karl Urban is Johnny Cage. You ripped my head off the other day, so, so share your thoughts with our friends and lovers.

48:45Oti: He walks as Johnny Cage, who wants, says,

48:48KT: who am I gonna see you as the casting director in that movie?

48:53Oti: Who did you want to be? Johnny Cage.

48:54KT: Blonde, pretty boy. Glen Powell. Is that his name?

48:59Oti: Glen Powell?

49:00KT: Yes.

49:02Oti: Oh, the Twisters guy. He's too pretty.

49:05KT: No. People are gonna tell you a part that you call him the Twisters guy.

49:11Oti: Whoa. What is he done? How it supposed to be referenced? He hasn't been appeared on our podcast yet.

49:17KT: Um. Friends and lovers dial in with your, uh, Glen Powell movie. But that's the point. He's supposed to be a himbo. He is supposed to be a ditzy Blondie pretty boy.

49:29Oti: It just looked, I watching Twisters. It just looked like Bra. We're talking about Mortal Kombat now. No, but it with Glen Powell and whoever the other person was, it was just like pretty people on screen standing in the field. I'm like, rah. Anyway. Karl Walks is Johnny Cage. He's rough. Based on It's fucking Karl. It can be candle for can.

49:55KT: Wow, you really got some screen please? Keeping your mans employed.

50:04Oti: Just wait. Actually get the crossover. Between Kendall and I've,

50:08KT: I've watched the cheesy nineties adaptation. I've watched the Scorpion animated, uh, adaptation.

50:16Oti: That was a really good adaptation. I've watched

50:18KT: other 2D animated Mortal Kombat. I have played Mortal Kombat. I have a grappling of who Johnny Cage is. It's even Joel McHale, right? Joe

50:32Oti: Fight. Who would be, who would feel scared when Joe Peace? I could knock Karl Urban out, bro. Just call Bria Joe. Run away.

50:48KT: Wow, this turned into, no, we should have a Mortal Kombat corner. This

50:51Oti: Mortal Kombat world feels, explain to me, how

50:55KT: is Johnny Cage?

50:56Oti: It feels grittier. It's like

50:57KT: a DC Henry Cavill.

51:00Oti: No, it's not. Not to that level where it's all Granty, but it just has that, uh, I'm more serious compared to the cheesy sort of ones we've seen before. How

51:09KT: open is Wolverine not turning cage?

51:14Oti: I feel like he'll be Johnny Cage proud.

51:17KT: No. And you know what I succinctly can, I succinctly can, um, distill why Karl Urban isn't Johnny Cage?

51:29Oti: Mm.

51:30KT: Because Karl Urban respect to, uh, his life and his lover, but Karl Urban seems like. He has a lovely hairy chest that you can lean on like Wolverine. He doesn't seem to have a bare man. What do they call it? Metro Manscaped, Bayless, very small areola, uh, nipples of Johnny Cage,

52:00Oti: all this stuff. When you, when you are, when you are saying how you watched Mortal Kombat, how you played Mortal Kombat, was it because you were staring at. Um, Johnny Cage's, nipples. Johnny Cage doesn't have,

52:12KT: I said Olas. There's a difference between OLAS and nipples. How embarrassing for you? Eh, but I'm just saying that's how, you can't even explain why Johnny Cage is different.

52:24Oti: It's grittier. The world is grittier. We can't have a, a Kendall for Johnny Cage in this. It just doesn't fly. It doesn't make sense.

52:32KT: Okay, so you are not talking about. Johnny Cage as a character. You're talking about the setting and the atmosphere of the world.

52:38Oti: Yeah.

52:39KT: Okay. How about Goro? Still hurts. Sorry. Sorry.

52:49Oti: It's all right. Feel proud.

52:52KT: I feel better friends and lovers, thank you so much. Um, if you, uh, wanna check us out on the socials we're @ForYourRefPod,

53:03Oti: Write us an email. Hello, hello@fyrpodcast.com.

53:06KT: We're also on Justice hashtag Justice for Goro review,

53:11Oti: uh,

53:12KT: podcast if you like to leave a rating and review and we'll see you guys. The next one might be Superman. The next one we have a lot of Ref Maxes to catch up on, so we'll see

53:21Oti: Arban from Candle. See ya.

53:23KT: Bye.