It’s a Wonderful Life – Ain’t odbody loves me better

Full transcript of It’s a Wonderful Life – Ain’t odbody loves me better.

0:25KT: It's beginning to look a lot like a reference. Anyway you go. Welcome back, friends and lovers. It's the For Your Reference podcast. You've got your ever so festive host, KT.

0:41Oti: And Oti.

0:42KT: And get ready for some nuzzling and kissing your mother on the mouth because today, we are covering quite a treat, the 1946 film, It's a Wonderful Life. A classic. A classic indeed. I know a lot of the times we call things a classic even though it's been out for a year but this is a bonafide truly true sort of classic. But the funny thing was it was initially a flop in the box office, which was quite interesting. Speaking of, let's get to the stats.

1:15KT: You have the director Frank Capra, writers Frances Goodrich for the screenplay, and also Albert Hackett. It was nominated for five Oscars. Frank actually won for directing for a Golden Globe. Nice. So there were accolades in regards to that. In regards to the budget, it was estimated to be around 3,000,000 and the worldwide gross was $5,000,000. Mhmm. So I guess that's why it was constituted as a flop especially back in those days to make a film would have been very expensive.

1:15Oti: Actually made a loss because they only got like $500

1:52Oti: and Frank was working with Liberty Films or Liberty Studios or something like that. He'd study this thing. It got bought by Paramount and then like they just didn't renew its license and then that's I guess that's Yeah. There was a clerical error so Yeah. You know broadcasting places playing it, you know, without having to pay for it.

1:52KT: I can read IMDb trivia too, Oti.

1:52Oti: You're welcome, mate.

2:14KT: It's a lovely tit for tit around here. Welcome. It is a yuletide season with all of the Christmas cheer. Thank you for spending this momentous time, with us in the For Your Reference household. We are cognizant of the fact that it is 2019, and, you know, we do have friends and lovers of all different ilks. So if you don't celebrate Christmas, that's more than fine. I don't really take any I don't really partake in any sort of religious observances, but I fucking love Christmas. You too. I am a bit of bitch the whole year.

2:52Oti: When it when it comes to eating Not until that white man in a red suit comes around.

2:58KT: Well, you know, that's a story for another day, certainly. I was saying something very sweet and then Oti ruined it. But if you've listened to For Your Reference, that's kind of how it goes. No. No. No. Anyway

2:58Oti: Don't stop on my account.

2:58KT: No, dude.

2:58Oti: Sweet away me.

2:58KT: No. It's done now. It's perfectly fine. So let's let's talk about this film. It is very interesting. It is the festive season. We did toss-up what we would be covering in regards to, you know, Christmas. If if, you know, robot Jesus willing,

3:33KT: we're able to do another one before the end of the year, that would be great. But, you know, we're tossing around, you know, what what movies we should do, whether it was something like Jim Carrey's Grinch. Mhmm. Or, you know, the Grinch Who Stole Christmas or whether it was something that Oti loves Love Actually. You you poo pooed it, but you're the one no one forced you to watch it as many times as you watched it. I was I was pushing for I'm a Dear Christmas. Yeah. But no.

4:07KT: The look you gave me when I when I brought it up as a cutesy joke, but kind of not. And yeah, so so this is this is all in Oti's court. So I'm very excited to get into our first impressions. And also, accolades where accolades are due and we're millennials, we give ourselves accolades when they're not even due. This is the oldest film that we've covered on this podcast.

4:36Oti: By a mile.

4:38KT: By a mile. So let's let's definitely talk about it because if you've listened to our Master of None episode, there are a lot of tasty morsels that I didn't put in the show notes, I didn't really tweet about. So definitely check out that episode if you wanna especially hear more about Oti and I's lives and personal frame of reference. But in that episode, we discovered that Oti is the abacus daddy, and he used abacuses in school. So the fact that he's now recommending a nineteen forties movie further perpetuates

5:18KT: the Jordan Peele shining esque sort of character in Key and Peele. So so so let's get into it. It's a wonderful life. It's a wonderful life with Oti, I can assure all of you. What was it like? So how how did you even come across this film? Is this something that you you pretty much watched as a Christmas sort of tradition? Also, did you watch it in black and white? I have a lot of questions. You just start. So

5:45Oti: growing up, we had one channel and it played this movie pretty much every day during the Christmas period. Mhmm. And it was the black and white version, of course.

5:59KT: Sorry just for our friends and lovers can you establish what decade this was?

6:03Oti: Nineties.

6:04KT: Okay just just so we're clear so you're sitting with your abacus watching your black and white TV in the nineties yes.

6:04Oti: Yeah and it really resonated with me like I I was afraid of becoming

6:16Oti: George Bailey growing up. I was like

6:16KT: Oh.

6:16Oti: Or like watching it, I was like, I don't wanna be George Bailey. I don't want to feel like life has just passed me by. And this is even before he comes and the angel comes and makes him realize

6:16KT: Spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler

6:16Oti: Mate, if you're listening

6:32Oti: to this and you're worrying about spoilers, mate.

6:32KT: Don't hate shame people. I watched it for the first time. Jesus.

6:42Oti: I was scared because I felt like I didn't want to be George and I felt like my life trajectory would be that just

6:42KT: Okay. Like a cautionary tale?

6:42Oti: Yeah. And every year it would be the same thing and I'd just watch it and really feel like, oh my god, know, is this gonna be me wondering why everyone my friends doing all their things that they wanted to do and me just being stuck here. And I guess that's why that just drove me into try and

7:15Oti: thinking outside the box in what I wanted to be in future and what I wanted to do. I grew up just feeling like watching it, you know, it ends on a happy ending and all, but I was just stuck on the first quarter, three quarters of the movie where George is just running ragged and rumbling

7:34Oti: around

7:34KT: the the time you had to go and help cook or clean or something?

7:34Oti: Yeah. Yeah.

7:34KT: So you can we just watch the first devastating part of the movie?

7:34Oti: Yeah. And and you have to do all this shit. You have all the responsibilities,

7:45Oti: and you're like, will this ever end? And do I even see a way out?

7:45KT: Jesus.

7:45Oti: So I'm not trying to make this super dark.

7:45KT: Season,

7:55KT: my love.

7:57Oti: Yeah. And and it's it's it's not all doom and gloom, but there was some levity in this in terms of my frame of reference as well.

8:06KT: Nice branding.

8:06Oti: Thank you.

8:09Oti: It meant a lot to me growing up because I looked at him from a different prism and I watched this like I think I've watched this about more than 50 times. So

8:21KT: It's it's it's interesting though. Like, it's interesting of the suggestions that you gave that you chose something that was so classic. I guess, is the best word to call it. Like, not necessarily Home Alone, which would have been contemporary to the time. I'm just I'm just trying to understand how this

8:42KT: specifically is the one that resonated because you have so many Christmas movies.

8:42Oti: Because it was the only thing that was airing, you know. One of the only things I was airing those Christmasy at all. So I was stuck watching it and watch it I did as many times as I could and it just I just felt like I was George Bailey in the first three quarters. Couldn't get out. Was like, what am I gonna do? It it was a big part of my childhood

9:10Oti: and that's why I wanted us to do it because every Christmas this is the movie that I would watch during the

9:10KT: So it's like your whole family would sit around

9:10Oti: No. Just me. No. No one would

9:10KT: Oh.

9:10Oti: Like, everyone would do their own random things and I'll just be there watching this on the telly alone. Like, it's it's just I got really like, it took me to places. It took me to it made me start thinking of things that I really didn't think that I'd be able to at such an age. And

9:38Oti: I had already started planning my life on what I wanted to do and what I wanted where I'd want to travel and what I'd want to go and see just like George did. And and whatever

9:38KT: He kinda didn't.

9:38Oti: He didn't Yeah. Like, but I I felt like I was

9:54Oti: seeing my life through him. Okay. And that's what it meant to me at the time. And that's why it played such a big part in my life. And that's why I was tearing at the end of this movie watching it like the fifty first time, and it still has a soft spot on my heart. Like, it's something that just it's who I am really like. If this movie doesn't say Oti all over it like

9:54KT: It's an Oti life?

9:54Oti: Yeah. It's an Oti life.

9:54KT: Interesting. Interesting.

10:24KT: I just like okay. So let's get into my first impressions. I have never heard of this film. Genuinely. Not even the title of this film. Wow. Not even memes, but this isn't a very memeable sort of film. Yeah. Right? So I I didn't know anything about it aside from the fact that we decided to change our Christmas episode last minute and watch it and record straight away and edit it and release it within a few hours because, you know, life is for the living and we love a little thrill. I

11:01KT: I don't know. It's just like because I I I was expecting, like, a light sort of film. Something you don't need to think too much about and it might be cheesy, it might be cringey, but at the end of the day, it's Christmas. Right? And it's not to say I didn't enjoy this film. It's just, you know, it's the same with watching, like, foreign films and, you know, you read subtitles because we don't stan dubs in the For Your Reference household, but, you know, do what you wanna do in your own household.

11:31KT: You know, to to watch something with an added layer whether it be subtitles or whether it be black and white or whether it be something from older many many generations, no shade. There is a, you know, there is an extra sort of barrier to enjoyment. Right? So it's not to say that I didn't enjoy it. Also at the same time, in a world where people are fighting, like Black Friday fighting over whether Die Hard is a Christmas movie or not,

12:07KT: I would like to throw this film into the and say that this was not a Christmas film.

12:07Oti: What?

12:12Oti: I am so angry. Oh my god. I think our movie film license has just been revoked. Like, we we should not talk about any other movie after this.

12:12KT: Mate, the amount you paid for the license means it's not legit.

12:27KT: Because I I think we might have mentioned it in our office, like the American Office episode. I'm not really big on Christmas movies. I fucking love Christmas, but I never really got into Christmas movies. Right? So if I'm going to watch a Christmas movie, I wanna feel all of the tinsel in all of my places. But how's a Christmas miracle on that end? No. But yeah. But no. Like, it wasn't it wasn't, you know, saturated

12:54KT: throughout the film. And it wasn't until halfway through where I accepted, okay, this is not going to be all of the fanfare

13:02KT: that I was looking for. And once I accepted that, I could just enjoy it as a story. And as a story, I enjoyed it. I thought it was quite nice. And then you have that, you know, that that dynamic of, a guardian angel taking him through his life and his decisions or in this particular case, more so what life would be like if you weren't around sort of dynamic. Saved by the Bell did that very well many times. They borrowed from this heavily. Sesame Street also borrowed heavily from this Bert and Ernie.

13:34KT: I was gonna say Mimi, but that's a different reference. Yeah. So I don't know, man. Like, I was watching it, you know, because Oti held his heart in his hands, so to say. And I was like, okay, I'll watch it. But it's not a Christmas movie. It really isn't.

13:34Oti: It's the most Christmas Christmas movie there is.

13:34KT: I tweeted the other day,

13:56KT: if if Die Hard and if if people wanna live in this world where just because Christmas is shown in one, at least one scene of the film, then that means Bridget Jones by default and that logic is also a Christmas film because of Colin Firth in his reindeer sweater alone. At least let me have that.

13:56Oti: So in your KT mind, what what is a Christmas movie

13:56KT: Excuse me. Just my mind. You don't need to preface that.

14:20KT: What what is a Christmas movie? It is something that centers around the spirit of Christmas. This was literally and we already said spoilers. This was literally about a man that didn't realize his full potential. He had dreams and he never got to realize them. And obviously, there's some sort of resentment that's swirling within that. Genuinely, he seemed to be a great guy, but there's only so much that he could take. And you could start to see his pot simmering, so to say. And he was ready to go on a bloody path of rampage.

14:54KT: And we started to see that Yep. Through the film. That was quite an interesting sort of dynamic. Reindeers? I think not. Fat man Nicholas? I say not. You know what I mean? Like Yeah. I I as a film, I enjoy it, but it was not a Christmas film. As Stanley from The US Office would say, Christmas is Christmas is Christmas is Christmas. I just want plain old fat white man in his beard Christmas.

15:23Oti: So would you say Home Alone is a Christmas movie?

15:23KT: Of course, it's a Christmas movie.

15:23Oti: Why?

15:23KT: Because it's set on the December 25 and there's no end. He was literally home alone

15:34KT: during the Christmas period.

15:37Oti: He finds himself he realizes the importance of being part of this of the of the town and the community on Christmas.

15:37KT: Okay.

15:37Oti: About Christmas can you get?

15:37KT: This well,

15:48KT: I say Yuletide, you say Christmas. Feel free to join the debate or just watch us fight together. Let's get act to let's let's actually get into the film. Mhmm. So the way this film is presented to us is you have these godly beings that are hearing out all of the prayers that are praying for George. Oh, full circle. One of the prayers was the daughter. There you go. That's some lovely interweaving of a narrative if I've ever seen one. It is. But, yes, there there there are people that are crying out in their prayers

16:26KT: to the deities out in the world for George. Everyone is praying for George because as we see at the end of the film, he he's in some angst, which we will get to. But these celestial sort of beings, I feel like maybe they had like a mani pedi or they had a football game coming up. So they kind of outsourced it to a class what was it? Class two? A class two angel? Yep. Yeah.

16:58KT: Clarence. Clarence. Clarence Odbody. Mhmm. And if we're all honest, we're all odd bodies really. Yep. Our middle names should all be odd bodies. It'll be like a Korean reboot of like Oldboy and like Odbody. Oh oh, wow. Well, they've already done an American remake, but I I do not care to say that. But then so Clarence is enlisted to go and help George. Right?

17:27KT: And then so before he can even go and help George, they try to get him to understand. Cause one of the celestial beings was like, how are you going to help him if you don't even know who he is? Yeah. So then we so from a viewer's point of view, we're taken through the life of George. Yeah. So, you know, there there are a lot of little steps along the way. There's nothing any groundbreaking in regards to like an overall sort

17:53KT: of moment at the end. Not to say that this film needed to have it, but the pieces were there. If you wanted to pick up the pieces, you could see the pieces were there. So when he was a child, he was playing with his brother and his brother went into the icy lake. Harry. Mhmm. And he actually saved his brother. So as we see later on in the film, if he wasn't there, then Harry would have unfortunately passed away.

17:53Oti: It's quite

18:21Oti: beautifully told and how Frank directed time in this and how they managed to show it, like in terms of the time lapse, it was quite beautiful because I think a lot of the times we were we were either taking on some sort of flash forward, flashback quite just brutally that this just felt like a breath of fresh air, and this is a movie that was made in 1946. It tells you a lot. Like, it was directed beautifully, and I really enjoyed

18:55Oti: the storytelling in this.

18:55KT: Yeah. And I think well, at the end of the day, there was a tipping point in regards to our protagonist who is George. So in order for us to spend that emotional investment, we needed to understand what his life was like. Yep. I don't think they explored a lot his relationship with his dad except for when they were at the dinner scene together.

19:22Oti: Well, yeah. You could see you could see that they had a close bond of sorts, and the father was happy for him to pursue his own dreams regardless of the fact that he wanted him to take over the building and loan business. It just shows you how much respect they had for each other and how much trust that he knew that George would always do the right thing.

19:22KT: Well, yeah, it was just interesting to see that exchange because,

19:47KT: you know, growing up in the nineties, February, you know, the the George's dad was way more progressive than my parents. Like understanding that he had a dream and he's smart and he he should get out of that town Yeah. Because he's smart enough to get out of that town. Yeah. Parents nowadays can't even some of them can't even be like that. So it's a tremendous effort and props to him. Yes, please. I'll take a Bailey daddy thank you. It was very progressive. It was I was not expecting that sort of interchange to happen. And

20:22KT: just to go back to when he was sort of like a prepubescent Mhmm. Sort of kid when he was working at the drugstore. I don't know or I guess it makes sense because they're prescription drugs but it always sounds like a harsh term that Americans call it a drugstore. Let's just settle down here. Because we call it a pharmacy. Yeah.

20:22Oti: I think everywhere where the British colonized call it call it a pharmacy.

20:22KT: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you brought some realness into that.

20:22Oti: You're welcome.

20:22KT: You're very black and white.

20:57KT: It's the way of the world. If you're part in the colonizer for this time. I just wanted to go back to this scene because I'm not sure if we'll be able to go back to it. So he's like, you know, maybe somewhere between like 12, 15. I don't know how old kids are. But he's working at that drugstore. Right? And we start to see the shop owner, he's like drinking. Like, he's visibly drinking behind his little, like, facade Yeah. Figuratively

21:27KT: and physically.

21:27Oti: Well, he just lost his son.

21:27KT: Yeah. But we didn't know that at the time. That unfolded throughout the scene, sir.

21:27Oti: Yeah. Well well, we see that he's sad and he's crying and we see George read the telegram that he received saying that the son has died. So he looks back at mister Gower and he sees him crying and then he could start to see the character of George he fully realizes what's going on he empathizes and he goes to tell the mister Gower that oh can I do anything can I do anything to help assist yep

21:59Oti: And when he walked into the room, he saw mister Gower making the prescription pill? You know, it's crazy like that they mix the drugs in the pharmacies, you know. For some reason, I thought they would just be manufactured somewhere then brought in for them to sell.

21:59KT: Not necessarily crazy. Give me some time, Oti, to pull my glasses up.

21:59Oti: Oh, pull them. Pull them.

21:59KT: I'm pulling both of my glasses up

22:23KT: on all of my on all of my eyeballs. Because we watched a John Oliver segment on Last Week Tonight recently where they were talking about like bespoke drugs as well. So that's not a foreign concept my dude.

22:23Oti: It's not. It's just, I don't know.

22:38Oti: For some reason, my mind just doesn't want to accept that. I think it's just a lot of power. Essentially. It is a lot of power and a lot of trust that this guy is not going to give you a dosage or knock you up forever.

22:38KT: Wow. Well, if you if you wanna talk about getting knocked out,

22:55KT: I think that's I can't think of something more recent where a kid was getting, like, beat on the screen by an adult. It's not like little kids bullying each other. Like, it was a full on adult overpowering a child.

23:10KT: I don't aside from my household growing up, I don't think I've ever seen that on screen. I guess that's what you get for watching a nineteen forty six movie. It's quite refreshing, isn't it? I had to close my non existent robe. I'm wearing clothes but I wasn't wearing a robe. And I had to clutch onto my non existent pearls unless it's a Friday night and it's there. I

23:36KT: was in disarray. I was like, oh, are you allowed to show this?

23:36Oti: Yeah. But even in that, once he realizes that he's mixed poison in there, he becomes so thankful and happy and glad

23:49Oti: that George

23:49KT: The damage is literally already done. And he was, like, smacking his ear. The one that he, like, start he lost hearing in after saving his brother, and he was fucking smacking the back of his ear. Jeez. Yeah. It's crazy, isn't it? It's intense.

23:49Oti: Growing up, did teachers beat you in school?

23:49KT: No. Dude, I I went to school late the nineties and the February. I went to school in the nineties and the February. Do you really wanna do this in our Christmas episode?

24:19KT: I'm just saying. We're going to have to do a happy Christmas episode after this. This is too real. Jeez.

24:26Oti: Christmas makes you appreciate everything that you have in life.

24:26KT: Unless you invite Oti to your fucking shindig.

24:33KT: Jeez. Are you done, sir? I am quite well done. I wanna go back to that particular slither of time for George where you had the two ladies. I'm pretty sure they grow up to be the women in the movie, but I just found it weird that the child actors were talking like they were grown women. Yeah. It's quite creepy. Like, I don't know if that's just how everyone talks. You just came out of the room, say, smoke my cigarettes.

25:03Oti: You know, like, don't know. I think it's just the mannerisms that picked up from their parents or their mothers.

25:03KT: Yeah. But there's a sexual sort of intent. You know what I mean?

25:03Oti: Yeah. Like, we used to do the same thing growing up.

25:03KT: Oh my.

25:03Oti: Like, you copy what you see, you know, monkey see monkey do and Monkey poo poo all over you. But yeah, like I thought it was just them mimicking what they've seen and trying to be seductive which is creepier.

25:03KT: It creepy

25:35KT: just like you have kids in there like pageants and shit. It's creepy. Yeah. That's Unless it's Little Miss Sunshine which we will definitely cover one of these days. Oh, yeah. For sure. Fucking love. We're all super freaks. And there's another reference for you guys. But, yeah, I just wanted to point that out. Actually, while we're on the topic of voices, there was obviously, you know, throughout the decade, you have a certain way that people talk. Right? George in particular, but pretty much all of the male sort of characters,

26:07KT: the the younger ones, not necessarily like Uncle Billy, for example, but the younger sort of male characters, they all sounded like Nic Cage. Specifically, Nic Cage as Noir in Spider-Verse. And again, I'm not as old as Oti, so that's the only reference I have. Like, oh, would you look at this here? See?

26:32KT: Actually, can we talk about the perverted scene? Like, this guy was a fucking pervert. First of all, he kissed his mom. Twice in a space of one minute. And I know I said we love a delicious Oedipus moment, but he literally wanted to eat her puss.

26:47Oti: How would he Yeah. Go in love

26:50KT: You didn't see the cut footage or the uncut Hey. If you're welcome. But I don't know, like, just that voice. Like, it might be something super innocent, but that voice fucking just creeped me out. I don't know. Maybe maybe it's because I wasn't born in the nineteen forties, but watching this was problematic to me. Not unlike a super feminist sort of thing. And again, if that's if that's your deal, then that's good for you. But, you know, if you've listened to our podcast, I am always wrong till Sunday.

27:24KT: I'm pretty sure I mashed together three phrases on mine, but it's fine. But particularly the scene I wanted to talk about is, I don't know if this is like a Grease situation and they're 30 years old and they're pretending to be high school students, but this is when they went to the dance or whatever that celebration was. Right? And they accidentally fell into the pool. Apparently, that's a fully functioning basketball court slash pool even till today.

27:50Oti: Oh, really?

27:50KT: Yeah. Right? Interesting. When they fell into the pool and they were wearing the clothes from the lost and found, you know, she had this robe. Bitch wanted to be seen. This all I'm gonna say. She had a tie string for her robe,

28:07KT: but she never tied it. Bitch wanted to be safe. It's what said.

28:07Oti: Actually, you should wrap your arms around that robe, mate.

28:07KT: Nah, dude.

28:15KT: Nah, dude. Nah, dude. She's like, I'm wearing these pointy bras for a reason. You see my pointy ass titties. Let's be real. Real titties are pointy. Come and fight me, people.

28:15Oti: I'm not I'm not saying anything to that.

28:15KT: No?

28:15Oti: No. They don't.

28:15KT: So you wanna talk about sad shit, you don't wanna talk about titties? Boo. New household, please. When she's naked in the bush and he's corralling around her being like, oh, I've never gotten a chance to do this before, especially in Bedford. That is fucking creepy.

28:52KT: And not Lonely Island creepy, like fully fledged creepy.

28:58Oti: It's just having fun.

29:01KT: No, dude. You're on the wrong side, mate. That was gross and that was creepy.

29:10Oti: Alright. But I think that's when he gets told that his father has had a stroke and he has to go. Mhmm. So he throws out the robe. What if that made his boner like flare even more? Some archer sort of situation?

29:27KT: He's got buckles in here. Oh, buckles. So so that kind of becomes like the catalyst of the film because, oh, no, it happens after but, you know, he had dreams and he had ambitions and, you know, he had desires of a career but he didn't get to meet that unfortunately. He sacrificed his time to travel before starting school. He wanted to go overseas. He wanted to see the Pantheon. He wanted to see all of these iconic sort of architectural structures so he could come back, instill that knowledge and build big structures within Morocco.

30:06KT: And unfortunately, he didn't get to at least go on to that trip. And as we see in the film, he doesn't even get to continue his learning either. Even when there's a war, he still doesn't get to go to it. Yeah. There was always something in the way. Something keeping him at Bedford Falls

30:24Oti: regardless of what the situation was.

30:27KT: And and without the hyperbole, without the dramatic sort of hyperbole, I think this is just a good note to take a break and, you know, sip whatever you're sipping or nibble on whatever you're nibbling on. And just remind yourself like, how are you feeling right now? And this usually happens around Christmas time as well. If you don't feel like you're fully passionate in what you're doing, don't underestimate that feeling of putting it putting your dreams off to pay the bills. Yeah. Right? It's a sign. You know, we love podcasting, but unfortunately,

31:04KT: you know, our dog's got a very superfluous life that needs to be paid for, so we need to keep our office drone jobs. But, you know, if you're the sort of person that's really passionate, then you can't just pretend like feeding your passions is a frivolous thing to do. And I think that was George's sort of downfall.

31:26KT: He kept putting himself to the side for many various reasons. It wasn't just because he didn't wanna face it. Right? Yeah. You know, there there were many things that pushed him into the life that he had. It was always for the betterment of the town, for the betterment of his family, for the betterment of whatever. Like, he always kept the needs of his family and the town first before his. Yeah. And he didn't leave anything left for himself or his family. Yeah. Mind you. Yeah. But then again, that kid playing on that piano,

31:57KT: that that would be a lot. If you're like having a really stressed day and all you hear but to to her credit, she was playing quite well. It wasn't bad, but it was incessant.

32:07Oti: Oh, replace that with a violin And I think that kid would have been thrown out the window. No.

32:15KT: But I think I think that's exactly it. And we we talked about that on our Master of None episode. And we talk about that in a lot of episodes that have these fragmented sort of protagonists because, you know, he wanted to live a certain life and unfortunately due to external and in most cases family sort of factors, he had to tend to that. Right? And obviously, we'll we'll talk more about the film. I just wanted to mention this. At the end of the film, where everyone was coming together,

32:46KT: the uncle's like, oh, you're fine now. And it's like, nah, dude. You're the problem. Everyone

32:52KT: has an Uncle Billy in the family. And if you can't identify him, then you're Uncle Billy.

32:52Oti: And in all that, he still couldn't figure out where the money went. Right? Yeah. Like, how fucking ridiculous do you have to be to lose $8? Hey. Even these days, $8 is a Even these days, $8 is a fucking lot. Yeah. I lost 200 shillings, and that's like $20. And I was kicked out of the house to go not to come back until I found it.

33:21KT: And you found me instead?

33:23Oti: Yep. So this guy this guy lost $8

33:31KT: Yeah. And just pounded it off to George. Mate, can I just tell you, $8 is enough for me to disappear and be sipping a Corona in on some beach in Mexico? Like, $8,000

33:43KT: is enough for me to leave.

33:43Oti: Oh, you can see for Corona in Mexico for a day and then you'd have to come back.

33:48KT: No, dude. Well, obviously, that was figurative. I'm not gonna literally go to Mexico now that I've revealed my plan.

33:56Oti: The perfect plan.

33:59KT: Uh-huh. Call me.

34:03Oti: Yeah. You'd be as useless as what's his name? And

34:03KT: Well,

34:09KT: if you're talking about someone useless, I can think of someone right now. Nice try. Come at the king, best not miss. That was a La Casa de Papel reference, and now that's a You reference. Let's get back to the film. You know what? And again, I I know I mentioned it in the first impressions, but I don't see what business a kid has watching this movie. Yeah. As a kid, I didn't enjoy watching a film where three quarters of it was like adulthood. Why would I care about that? I wanna see colors.

34:42KT: I wanna see Christmas. I wanna see nonsense,

34:46KT: and I don't wanna learn anything.

34:46Oti: Man, I saw some heavy shit growing up as a kid.

34:46KT: Yeah. So why are you watching this heavy shit movie then?

34:46Oti: Including this, like, it was just while I was on TV. Mhmm. And you get to watch these things, and I think it just inputs some sort of you start thinking about life differently or you start thinking about your own life and shit. And this movie is has some heavy themes in suicide,

35:09Oti: like fucking hell. You know, kids don't need to be hearing about that shit. Yeah. But it's in there.

35:17KT: According to IMDb, this is not rated.

35:17Oti: Yeah. Because

35:20Oti: Christmas has the end, you all get to sing. Wow.

35:27KT: If anyone wants to buy any of Oti's questionably original screenplays, feel free to email us. Let us know what you've got cooking there. But let's let's let's focus on some some some moments within this film. So in his adulthood, he tries to pursue a hormone Mhmm. Mary. So that was quite an interesting and again, I didn't grow up in the nineteen forties, but the way that their love story, I guess you might wanna call it, was portrayed seems so haphazard. Like,

36:05KT: okay. I get that it's back in the day and you're, like, super conservative so you can't show full on penetration. Okay. Fine. I understand that. But that whole nuzzling business was more creepier to me. Like, that creeped me the fuck out, and they kept fucking nuzzling. And he even nuzzled his kids. I'm like, stop fucking nuzzling people.

36:28Oti: I'd take nuzzling over if my wife was an actor, I'd take nuzzling over anything else.

36:28KT: Okay. I'm not your wife, but I am the closest example.

36:36KT: But I'm glad you imagined some sort of Christmas miracle.

36:42Oti: Yeah. Like, I I didn't find it creepy. I heard it like, it's the time where this was made.

36:49KT: It was the time it was made, but it was still creepy.

36:49Oti: Yeah. I I just didn't see any problems with it.

36:49KT: Because you were of the time. You were contemporary to the film's release.

37:00Oti: Yeah. Indeed, I was.

37:03KT: Apparently so so the actor that plays George, he recently returned from World War two and he actually wasn't going to take the role, but he ended up taking the role. And he was a bit, you know, cagey Nic Cage, that's a callback, what I mentioned before. He was a bit cagey about the on screen kiss because again, it was the first time since he came back Yeah. From the war. And Frank, the director, was like, okay, let's just let's just run it. Let's just go. It was unrehearsed and that's the take. And apparently,

37:39KT: it was too saucy that they actually had to cut some of it out so they could meet their rating. Oh. That's some serious nuzzling.

37:48Oti: Well, I guess they weren't nuzzling that much then.

37:52KT: Nuzzling leads to fuzzling.

37:55Oti: Oh, wow.

37:59KT: But the courtship was quite interesting of it all. I feel like I need to learn more details about how people courted back in the day. Yeah. Like Like, a lady bending over and showing you her asshole, I feel like is less violating than that whole nuzzling all over the neck while the mom's up at the top of the staircase probably flicking her bean.

38:20Oti: Who's down there with you? It's George. He's just violently having sex with me. Like, what? Who says that to the apartheid?

38:20KT: Well, she said violently making love,

38:31KT: which makes even more of a juxtaposition. But it's also nineteen forties, so who the fuck would say that?

38:31Oti: Exactly. Maybe I just don't have a good bearing of what nineteen forties were. Because I feel like that's way too conservative, isn't it?

38:31KT: Conservative? No. The time was way too conservative for that to have been set.

38:31Oti: Yeah. For sure. I felt the same way,

38:52Oti: but it was fun. It was good seeing the mother react with bitterness because she was all over Sam. Yeah. Even at the wedding day, the mother looked so disappointed.

39:05KT: That should have been Sam. Mate, Sam went on to build an empire.

39:10Oti: Yeah. And and wow. You know what I didn't understand? Like, George really did want to do something, be something and you know just something extra, something more. The fact that he didn't take the offer from Sam to get in with business with him because of the it was a good opportunity. We come to find out that it actually skyrocketed, and you can tell that he feels a way about it. Because the minute this meet with Sam and Sam is driving off with his in his posh car, he kicks his own car in frustration.

39:41KT: Yeah. But Sam also wasn't outrightly a dick. Like, he actually wanted to bring George along in the journey. Georgie

39:50KT: Porgie.

39:50Oti: No. We will not have any of that in this movie.

39:54KT: How dare you? No. That's what he was referred to in the film. Violet. Yeah. Let's talk a bit about Violet, the saucy minx. Vi, vi, vi. You got me saying vi, vi, vi. See, if Oti won't finish you, you'll need to finish yourself which is verbally what I just did. Oh, wow. Just verbally, nothing else. What did you think? Because you know sometimes you just have like naturally flirtatious

40:25KT: people. Do you think that was her sort of deal or do you think she Yeah. She was just She was on the prowl for some Georgie Porgie. No. She did want some Georgie Porgie and take Georgie Porgie go a bit too weird.

40:37Oti: To go up into the canyon. Let's go up to the canyon barefoot. She's like, what? Can you lost at barefoot.

40:46KT: So love 1946.

40:50Oti: That is definitely not Beyonce riding around in a in a savannah,

40:55Oti: rolling in the grass with what's his name?

40:55KT: Childish Gambino? Donald Glover.

40:55Oti: Yes. Yeah. I forgot it.

40:55KT: No. He did quite well. You did quite well. You got a reference and it it's relevant. Yeah. Not from nineteen forties.

41:07Oti: Oh, it's quite recent. 2019. You're quite welcome. See? I can be I can do something in this decade.

41:07KT: Yeah. Something. I'm waiting on the other tings.

41:18KT: But what what did you think about the whole guardian angel sort of dynamic?

41:23Oti: It was a way to just not make this movie too heavy and Okay. To alleviate all that has been building up in terms of George getting like the short end of the stick all the single time in this movie because he has an out that someone's always watching over him and his life doesn't suck as much as he thinks it does because what's the quote that was in the Mark Twain book and Oliver Twist?

41:49KT: You never learn if you have friends?

41:49Oti: Yes.

41:51Oti: So I didn't really care about that growing up and even now I was like yeah Don't care about that. You've got anything. You should have taken that away from the film. Well, I didn't really reason that we got in angels back then. Like, fucking hell, where were they when I was growing up? Were you resonating with the white Catholic priest that came over to Kenya? Because I was You no. No. You wanted to get real. Let's spotlight this fucking shit then.

42:14KT: Jesus. I just wanted to have a quaint Christmas.

42:19Oti: Well, that was way way before. And

42:19KT: And also

42:23KT: watch out next season for Oti's Watchmen, but it's literally just him and Watchmen. There won't be there won't be any Regina King. That's it.

42:37Oti: But, yeah, it's just to move the story to move the story along or transition the story from being sad as shit to happy

42:44Oti: because there's no other way they would have done it.

42:47KT: You know, like, I try to tread lightly in regards to providing my own edits because we do live in a Game of Thrones petition world and, you know, people's genitals are still burning from that, from Daenerys particularly. But I genuinely feel like this run time was way too long. I feel like if they wanted to make it a bit lighter, they should have stayed more in him as a child.

43:14KT: If it wasn't for children, then maybe they should have focused more on just him being an adult because there were many aspects of it that just felt Joker-ish. Joker-ish from the sense that you were just waiting for him to snap.

43:14Oti: Oh, Joker-ish as in the movie, Joker.

43:14KT: Yes.

43:14Oti: Oh, okay.

43:14KT: It's a technical term.

43:14Oti: No. I thought Joker-ish as just the word.

43:14KT: Wait. What?

43:14Oti: This is this is not a new Anthony Anderson show. You have Black-ish, you have Mixed-ish, you have Joker-ish.

43:44Oti: That would have landed if I said his name correctly the first time.

43:44KT: It never lands with you, but, you know, we are allowed to have only one funny person up in here and that spot is already occupied.

43:55KT: And again, if you had said that correctly, you would have landed that as well. And, yes, this film is proof that you are the funniest. You chose you chose a Joe Swanson type of movie. That's

44:08KT: a Family Guy reference.

44:08Oti: It's a Christmas cheer. Like, Christmas is about something magical happening. Something that you've been looking forward to the whole year. Mhmm. As a kid, that's all you're thinking about Christmas. Regardless of whatever you've gone through, you know that Christmas will be that holy that moment where you'd forget all of your struggles, you forget all of your pain, you'll have just a good day. Your parents will come home, you'll have gifts, you'll have whatever. Mhmm. Right? That's Christmas. And kids

44:37Oti: believing in that shit is what makes it all more special. So

44:37KT: Yeah. But that was, like, five minutes of the two hours and eleven minutes.

44:37Oti: Because it's set in reality where it's not all happy, cheery, moo, you know. We're not all waving our pom poms in the air. We're actually experiencing someone's life and how they've gotten to be how they are and during a special time as Christmas. Yep. That's where miracles can happen.

45:04Oti: And if well, I was a kid watching this and I was like, yeah, if there's any moment this guy deserves a fucking break, it's a Christmas because it's special. So if that doesn't make it a Christmas movie, nothing will ever be a Christmas movie because that's what Christmas is all about. The magic in the air where you get to alleviate all your pain and you get to understand what's exactly important in your life and George gets to experience this. You know, sort of

45:30Oti: out of body experience where he has to see what the town would be without him and how just

45:30KT: Let's explore that. Yeah. And keep your Christmas cheer, my love. I just don't regard it as a Christmas film, but no one ever listens to me at least in a critical critical sort sort of of regard. Regard. But let's talk about that. So you have, you know, all of the sequences to his life. You know, the key points is he saves his brother. He saves Gower from administering poison. Mhmm. And then he also marries

46:02KT: Mary, and then they have fortune Four kids. And one of them is called Zuzu. Who calls their white kids Zuzu in the nineteen forties? Is that a thing? I don't know. Maybe read it in those traveling pamphlets.

46:17Oti: He'll go to a village where kids are called Zuzu. I don't know.

46:21KT: Weird. Right? Yeah. Well, not weird. Just peculiar. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that's on the same level of offense if people are offended, but there you go. But, you know, you have these checkpoints in his life and then you start to see where the changes are. And again, this is where I have a qualm with the film because I feel like that could have been more effective if they had really chosen what they wanted to focus on. Because they spent a lot of time saying this is his life, but they didn't necessarily,

46:53KT: make it compelling enough throughout those checkpoints to make the payoff worth it. So examples, he goes into Martini's. He's like, where's Martini's? And he's like, I'm Nick. This is my bar. Apparently, I'm doctor Nick from The Simpsons. Exactly. But you know what I mean? And, like, it it shows all of the little instances and, you know, there there were some moments I found cheesy where you had Clarence at the I think it's called Bailey City or Baileyville

47:22Oti: Mhmm.

47:23KT: Where it ended up being a cemetery. And he Clarence is like, you know, Harry died so Harry didn't get to save all of those people in combat sort of thing. Like, that was a bit cheesy, but it's okay. I'll let it go. That's fine. But when he started to have any sort of character development was in the last maybe forty minutes, if I'm generous. Because they spent a lot of time establishing what his story was. It would have been nice if they'd cut the time throughout each of the ages just to check-in,

47:55KT: but they spent, like it it was literally an untampered storytelling of his life. So that's why I kept saying to you, hey, where's Christmas? Like, when is Christmas gonna happen? So again, I guess if I if I if I take that layer off that I don't think it's a Christmas film, even from a story point of view, I think they focus too much on just telling the story that they didn't necessarily choose their moments

48:22KT: for the emotional payoff.

48:22Oti: Interesting. Because I feel like they did all that for me at least. Him going to the bar and seeing what's next, he could see that he's like, what is this? He's not like this. This is not his general attitude and and demeanor, you know. He's he's quite shocked and this is one of the first places he goes after being erased from the town's history.

48:49Oti: So it's understandable that it's all quite due, frustrating, he doesn't understand it and he has to experience more of what the town is Yep. Without him and I just found it quite it was quite emotional for me watching that and saying the effect that he made because it wasn't really quite clear because he comes off as really popular with the people and people sort of love him but is that all and to get to see the sort of effect of once he's been removed and how much of a drastic change that is I was like man pass me a tissue KT pass me that tissue.

48:49KT: Happy tissue time?

48:49Oti: Happy tissue time, sad tissue time.

48:49KT: Well, James

49:30KT: Stewart who plays George in this film, apparently, he felt so overwhelmed in that particular bar scene

49:38KT: that he actually started crying. So one of the grainier moments in this film was because Frank deliberately wanted to zoom into that.

49:38Oti: Yeah. I was I was stuck tearing my eyes out, and I don't I don't think this movie didn't have an effect on you like that.

49:38KT: Because I was waiting for the Yuletide cheer my friend.

49:38Oti: The Yuletide cheer was one that was singing. Yay. Hey. At the end.

49:59KT: Happy Christmas. At the end.

50:04Oti: But we are all you know, Christmas miracle stories are what make the festive season all the more jolly.

50:04KT: Well, and and and, you know, that's your opinion,

50:14KT: which, you know, whether you think it's correct or not is my opinion. But also at the same time, they really could have interwoven more Christmas sort of elements. Not necessarily Christmas cheer, but also, you know, make it make that pain mean something. Because it was just pain. Pain, pain, pain, pain. And then we're singing around the Christmas tree. Everything is great because that's literally a a, you know, a mini scope of the actual year. The whole year is shit, and then you just enjoy yourself the

50:49KT: last month or month and a half, however long you wanna draw Christmas out. Right? So it it just wasn't my jive, you know? But there are two characters that I do wanna talk about. Mhmm. And that's Henry Potter. JK Rowling, I'm looking at you. That's that's quite on the nose there. And also Uncle Billy. So who do you wanna go through first?

51:14Oti: Henry Potter.

51:14KT: Nice.

51:16KT: I think we got into like half an hour in and the first comment I said was, he's the only thing I like about this movie so far. He is America in a nutshell. Right? Not that long ago, we covered The Big Short. Mhmm. Right? And that was talking about shorting mortgage loans or some shit. I don't know. Margot Robbie, come back and explain it to me. Right? But we even see that in the nineteen forties as well. Right? And mister Potter, if you're nasty, pretty much encapsulated corporate greed in America.

51:55KT: He knew these people couldn't afford it and he even said it to George's dad and also to Billy as well. I don't care. Foreclose their homes. It's a business. Yeah. What I need yeah. Exactly. Stop treating this like it's a charity. So it was a miniature version of America. Right? You have all of these townspeople just struggling, a squirrel trying to get a nut. Right? And then you have Potter looming over your heads. And even in the darkest timeline, which is a Community reference, it's called Pottersville. Yeah. Right?

52:30KT: And, you know, so he essentially, he does not care. He is going to buy out all of the properties on the monopoly board. Right? Mhmm. So it was it was interesting to see that because, yes, it wasn't Christmas. Yes, it had nothing to do with George. But it was just a very interesting dynamic is all I'm saying. Yeah. He was an ass and a half, maybe too much ass for anyone to handle, but it was interesting. It brought something interesting to the story while I was waiting for my Christmas.

53:03Oti: Well, it's all about the capitalist world we live in, know. He's not necessarily evil, he's just a businessman. He's a ruthless businessman but a business and all the same. And at the end of the day, he's just doing what gets him the most profit which is fair enough. So I don't have like any qualms with him. You'll always have those sort of people. If it's not the bank it's someone like him because he had banks recalling people's loans and shit and he people would go for him for loans at ridiculous interest rates. Mhmm. So

53:36Oti: it's just a coupless nature of the world

53:36KT: and because you seem annoyed that after twenty, thirty minutes, that was the first thing that escaped my lips.

53:44Oti: Yeah. Because, like, you get to see George in his earlier years navigating life and you felt nothing up until the point where we get a grumpy old man saying

53:55Oti: stuff about taking people's homes away.

53:55KT: Yeah. That's true to nature. Let's just say. Know yourself, Oti. Self awareness is key.

53:55Oti: Oh, yeah?

53:55KT: It was just interesting. It it was an interesting sort of dynamic to have and it was literally the mustache sort of twirling villain that you would have in a story. I'm gonna take your house, Sue. Yeah. He's quite a character in this and But he was smart. Like, he he was devious and he was evil, but you need to be smart to be able to, you know, spread your dominion. Yeah. Right? Opposite,

54:33KT: Uncle Billy.

54:34Oti: Yeah. True. Like, people in the town were willing to go to him on a drop of a dime to get back their money 50¢ off the dollar. Bitches bitches be fickle but I'm I'm glad that the townspeople came together at the end. Yeah. It really did mean a lot to George that when he was in trouble having sacrificed

54:52Oti: a whole lot of his life to be in the town and to do what's in the best interest of the town, they came and pulled through. So that was nice to see.

54:52KT: What did you think of Uncle Billy?

54:52Oti: I don't really care for him. His clumsy has, he's just a

54:52KT: Of course, he was the one that didn't die. Those kind of characters would outlast everyone.

54:52Oti: Yeah. They're roaches, mate. Just to get you frustrated. Yeah. Here's here's real liability.

55:20Oti: Like Oh, yeah. When when you're dealing with all the stresses and pressures of trying to fend off mister Potter and you go off and lose $8

55:29Oti: and you can't even remember it for you. You can't even remember your interaction with mister Potter where you slammed a bloody newspaper on his lap. That's like the first thing I would think of, oh, fuck. Maybe the maybe the money was there. Yeah. But not nothing. He was just some empty headed man. What about that bank teller? Did you forget something? Wouldn't you need the money that you brought to deposit?

55:29KT: I

55:53KT: don't think I would have handled being in the nineteen forties. Yeah. Probably not. I'm not there for their smug demeanors. I've got enough of that in the For Your Reference household. I don't need any more smug motherfuckers.

56:06Oti: Yeah. Yeah. And we can go back to the film where there was a scene where you gave me a look when Harry was chasing Annie through the kitchen and giving her a spank.

56:18KT: Yeah you could literally see it before the door closed he was winding his hand up to cup a whole ass. Oh, wow. I I think just in general, it was very clear that, you know, men were the dominion of the set. Yeah. And it's just that casual sort of harassment. Yeah. Because what the fuck was that shit? Like, maybe it was playful but in amongst the bushes in the bushes, it just felt a bit much. Yeah. Right? You can't tongue kiss each other, but you can joke about this perverted shit. There

56:58KT: was so much hard lip kissing. Like, you're you're about to start chafing. Like, there's so much dry humping of your lips going on. Like, settle down, kids. Get some Vaseline for your lips. Oh, anyway. Mouth lips. Mouth lips. It's very important to be specific, especially around Oti.

57:21Oti: Thanks for the clarification.

57:23KT: You are most welcome, my love. But, you know, overall, it it was an interesting film to watch. I don't know if it necessarily told me more about you, It it it's more bewilderment as to how this is the iconic Christmas film to you. Mhmm. But, you know, I don't regret the experience.

57:47Oti: Welcome. I'm all about the experience.

57:49KT: And I I guess like, you know, wandering people in relationships, I'll need to go find my Christmas elsewhere because I didn't find it in this film.

58:00Oti: I found mine And I'm sure most of all listeners would agree that this was just a great Christmas movie.

58:10KT: And, you know, this is quite a quite a film, and we do always say we are a learned people. And, you know, this is going to continue my narcissism that we are learning because we did a nineteen forties film. And to repay our listeners, Oti, why don't you tell them what your favorite color is?

58:10Oti: Purple.

58:10KT: Purple rain.

58:34Oti: Purple rain.

58:36KT: Well, there you go, friends and lovers. An exclusive that we won't even tweet about. It won't be in the show notes, but we thank you so much. Especially because this is a time, you know, for family, but maybe also friends and lovers. We appreciate you. Hopefully, enjoyed this Christmas question mark or Christmas exclamation.

59:00Oti: Exclamation.

59:02KT: Well, maybe you wanted to know more, maybe you wanted to know less, but there's some more information about Oti. Let's finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference. Oti.

59:14Oti: I'll go with keeping you the Christmas theme, Die Hard. Follow John McClane, exact revenge on Christmas. What better could you possibly watch?

59:26KT: Robot Jesus, give me strength. You wanna play this game? You wanna play this game? I'm going to reference Ghosts of Girlfriends Past by Matthew McConaughey. Because if you wanna talk about walking back through your deadly sins, that you know, say what you will about that film, but it does it very effectively. I will see you in the ring, brother.

59:50Oti: See you in the ring.

59:52KT: Merry almost Christmas, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in. Hopefully, you're holding on to everyone you love dear or, you know, you're holding on to the food that you love dear. Mhmm. Take a sip. Take a look at our back catalog if you need some more company for this jolly season. We love you guys so much. We have a very exciting episode next week where we actually go through all of the TV shows, all of the movies, and we actually rate them out of 10. Yeah. So as as famously said

60:26KT: by ourselves that are not famous, strap in or strap on my loves because we are going to have all of the Yuletide cheer. We love you. We love you. We love you. On Twitter and Instagram, we are for your ref pod. You can write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. And we take kindly to five star Apple reviews around here. So feel most welcome. We love you guys, and have a great week. See you. Bye.