Black Christmas – Low Barb Diet

Full transcript of Black Christmas – Low Barb Diet.

0:00KT: It's another festive week in the For Your Reference household. And we are going to start off with a speed round of Unguess Me Oti. Are you ready? We're not guessing each other. I guess friends and lovers, you can guess us. The film we are covering this week, Black Christmas. Is it a horror film? Three, two, one. Yes. Is it a Christmas film? Three, two, one.

0:00Oti: Yes.

0:00KT: No. Absolutely not. We are adding it to the list of Christmas not Christmas lists.

0:34Oti: Oh, dear. It's a Christmas movie. Check it twice up That happens to be a horror.

0:40KT: Well, let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and yuletide lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT.

0:40Oti: And Oti.

0:40KT: Super tongue has entered the chat with the pertinent query, how many licks does it take to get to the center of checks notes, professional virgins. Answer the call with a nineteen seventy four Black Christmas this week. Let's get into general stats and information. This film was directed by Bob Clark, written by Roy Moore. It was released in 1974 in way of budget, $620,000 with a worldwide gross of $4,100,000.

1:53KT: Noise, noise, noise. And add it to the For Your Reference collection of considered classics. Not sure about Halloween, go and check out our Halloween episode. Let's get into first impressions, Oti. How did you feel about this film? Have you ever heard of this film before? We are aware that there are subsequent films that have come out 2006 and 2019 respectively, but we will not be discussing nor have we watched them. So

2:24KT: we learned our lesson with Legally Blonde. When you watch a film that has other sequels, just watch the first one. Yep. But unlike Legally Blonde, we will continue the airplane path, but let's get into it.

2:35Oti: Yeah. I agree with you. We don't recognize remakes in this household. But this I've heard of Black Christmas before, but this is was this was my first time watching it Mhmm. Which is wild considering how much I loved this movie. Yes. I really didn't think that I would love it as much as I did. Knowing full well that I'd be going in thinking that will be a lot of Christmas vibes and it'll sort of pull back, especially knowing the time they did this. Mhmm. It's definitely

3:07Oti: one of my favorite horror movies. And you can tell that a lot of the other movies that came after it borrowed fucking heavily.

3:18KT: Yeah. Even when we were watching the film and to we spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, check your attics, check your attics, check your attics. No, but when we were watching the film and we first got periphery of a stalker sort of killer living in the house. Yeah, more than one scene, was referencing Michael Myers. And it was interesting. It was interesting watching this film. And I guess sometimes it's nice friends and lovers to not be aware of when films came out and what borrowed from what. And it was nice just to fully encapsulate ourselves

3:56KT: in this film for the runtime, which was a great amount of time. And the pacing was also very great.

4:01Oti: A 100%. I think it's one of those that the way they use the mystery to just elevate this movie so much in my I think I've never been so eager at the end of the movie to fucking find out what what the fuck, who the fuck is Billy? Yeah. What's going on? But I was still happy. I was like, fuck, that was good.

4:29KT: It's just very rare when we watch something that is super open ended and we're not frustrated by it. So it was nice to be in the moment and enjoy the film. And obviously, Sopranos is a very big sort of example whenever people talk about open ended sort of endings. Yeah. That didn't bother me at all. I really enjoyed the journey that we were getting into the film. I don't I feel like I had a periphery, but only just recently. Like I've never I think because of the 2019, I heard talks about Black Christmas, but I never really knew anything about it until recently.

5:02KT: And I said it on the Candyman episode, go and check that episode out. We talk about some very real themes in there. Otis Domingos, the most pertinent. You know,

5:13Oti: it took out to me. You know what I I thought Black Christmas would be back in the day? A blaxploitation film? Yeah. Or it'll be those Saint Nicholas things from the Dutch holidays or some shit. Oh, wow. I just wasn't ready. Are we getting into the minstrel of it all? No. I just thought, I'm not ready to delve into this shit right now. Back banner you go. Wow. Happy I was wrong.

5:37KT: Yeah. But speak speaking of Jordan Peele and Colton Dunn, the guy that is in Superstore.

5:37Oti: Garrett?

5:37KT: Yes. They have a very funny song comedy skit that you can find on YouTube about that specifically. But finishing off my thought with Oti swinging his Domingos in front of my sentence, I really didn't feel like the 1992 Candyman film needed to be touched, whether it's to improve it, whether it's to reclaim it, I can't speak on that because I'm not black. However, the main point that I made in 1992,

6:16KT: Candyman in that episode was I felt like it did what it needed to do. We didn't need anymore. And that's how I feel about this film. And that's why I'm kind of happy we're recording this episode before we even decide to tackle the way the people agreed 2006 is part of it, and then also the recent 2019. So 100% agree with Oti. I really, really enjoyed the offerings and the tasty professional virgin morsels that we had in this film. Since we're nasty, there

6:51KT: are some podcasts out there that like to read synopsis and that's fine with you guys. We're gonna get straight into the nastiness, just like the nastiness in this film. I kinda wanna talk about Billy. And I'm pretty sure whoever Billy is, it's kind of agreed that Billy is the one doing the killings. Not Peter. Interesting. We'll we'll come to Peter in a second. But how did you feel? Because we talk a lot about like horror icons like Michael Myers, Chucky, make sure you go and check out big old Tilly's for the title alone.

7:26KT: And then obviously we talk about Candyman as well. We also talk about Pennywise and also Freddy vs. Jason, shout out to Kelly Rowland and her Excel spreadsheet and tugging down Jason, which is a duty that no one else wants to But we talk about horror icons and I guess, you know, their staying power and I guess their presence within the film. I wanted to talk about Billy a little bit. What did you think about Billy? There was a lot of mystery as you alluded to earlier, but what did you think about him? Not necessarily as an icon, but as the presence of horror.

7:55Oti: I I found it fascinating. Yeah. In as much as I wanted to know more about Billy, I was happy not knowing about Billy because it made everything feel more heightened. Mhmm. Billy as a character is is intriguing. Yeah. Because the things he says on the phone, you can only bloody imagine the sort of backstory there is. Yeah. He's quite vulgar. There's I was going to say sexual innuendos. There's no innuendos at all. It's fucking out there. Yeah.

8:34Oti: And the thing I noticed is that he pretty much called anytime he killed someone. Yeah. It was very diligent. Yeah. Yeah. And and and that was like exactly it. And then when the movie was ending, and we get this panning shot of the house, and then the phone rings, I'm like You had a good giggle gaggle cycle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was splooching me. Yeah. Yeah. I think this is how you do a character, and you can put comparisons because I know I said that I wanted to know more about Michael Myers in Halloween because there was so so many things you didn't understand

9:08Oti: about him. But the onus in this movie isn't for us to understand who fucking Billy is. You know? In the first Halloween, I thought, okay. Michael, whatever. And if we do get a Halloween two, maybe they'll delve into more who Michael is because that's their thing. You're expecting a long life franchise to have depth? No. But it it just goes to show how Billy escaped all that burden. And I wasn't I I didn't feel like I was tied down to want to, oh, why is Billy calling? Or because

9:41Oti: my thinking throughout the whole thing was or at least halfway through was, it's fucking Peter. He's a fucking creeper. How did Billy repeat the same thing that Peter said to Jess? You know, I was convinced it's fucking Peter.

9:54Oti: Yeah. Only to find out that it's fucking not. Because at the end of it, when we fight, we see Jess there laying down laying as if she's already dead with Peter, I thought, okay, there's something going more going on here. Yeah. Then maybe it seemed as if Peter wasn't the guy. And I was like, okay, this is building up my suspense. This is intriguing to me. Yeah. And I've never gotten that from other things. So from the Halloween franchise, I never got that.

9:54KT: But I guess from that point of view, Michael Myers kind of became bigger than Ben-Hur. So he became like,

10:26KT: not necessarily an urban legend, but he definitely became well known within Haddonfield. Right? So I think the difference here is no one knew about Billy. No one People barely knew that people were dying yet. So I guess that's the, it was a smaller sort of scale, but I guess what I will say in regards to, any sort of comparisons, it really does stand on its own. I

10:54KT: think also the same time, because you were saying we didn't need to care or know about what Billy's motivations were, it's because for the most part, we didn't even know who Billy was. Someone was antagonizing these women and then these young women rather. And because us as the audience, we were given more information than the characters on the screen. So we knew that shit was going down, but no one else knew in regards to the realms of the film, right? So we were just watching

11:23KT: the eventual sort of onslaught that was happening, but you're talking about Peter and I've gotta say, friends and lovers for your reference, but we talk about frame of reference, if you'll pardon the pun a lot. And unfortunately, I already discounted Peter. I don't think I discounted him to the point of being a serial killer. And I'm going to put a very, very gentle trigger warning in here about abortion. We have talked about abortion in other podcast episodes, and we're not gonna get into

11:59KT: the depth of, you know, discussions about abortion. Early from the point of view of Bob Clark and Roy Moore, they've been asked the questions, especially in regards to Jess and Peter and them having that conflict between the two of them. And apparently it wasn't even supposed to be a big thing. And apparently it was supposed to be politically neutral. But to be released in 1974, I give kudos, I give credit for the fact that they were even bringing up abortion and the way that they presented it was done very delicately

12:32KT: and very thoughtfully and also grounded in real life, right? But I'm not gonna get into the intricacies and that sort of thing. But what I will say, because Peter was valuing himself over the personal freedom that Jess had, I I by default did not like him. So when it kind of felt as though it might be him, I'm like, yeah, let him fucking burn. And

13:00KT: that's me as a woman for woman supporting all women. I just wanted Peter to go. I think there was a part of me that didn't feel like he was the killer. But if he had to go, that's also fine. He made some really shitty comments to Jess.

13:15Oti: And I was like, for some reason, I thought Jess would cave. Yeah. And every minute that Peter and Jess were on screen, I was expecting Jess to just fucking cave. But she did it. She did it. She really just did farm and She said you had your dreams, and I'm still working on mine, bro. Exactly.

13:31KT: Yeah. Just because yours have gone to shit. Love it. No. Me and mine have to as well. Love it. He he didn't fucking listen, but the fact that she felt strong enough and confident enough to say that, fucking kudos, man. Nineteen seventy four, man.

13:31Oti: Yeah, bro. Tell that to fucking Tasha

13:49Oti: in Ghost, mate. You need to stop.

13:53KT: It's true. See? It's true. I'm holding down the women. Don't know what Oti's doing over there. Oh, boy. Stay in your bro club. That was that was really good, though.

14:04Oti: I think it surprised me. I just didn't expect it.

14:09KT: But I'm saying personally, I don't think it was Peter, but because I had a hatred for him and the the audacity for him to man to man strong-arm Jess, I just wanted him to die. So the easiest way for him to die would have him for him to be Billy essentially. But I I don't think I truly believe that he was Billy, but I wanted him to die.

14:09Oti: Wow. Yeah. I had already bought in, man. I was fully in that he was Billy.

14:09KT: The only other thing I would say about Billy is

14:39KT: it got very interesting because the first sort of calls, you know, you had Barb who was very She very much stood her ground, but I think she also enjoyed telling men to fuck off, which I do resonate with. But I also don't believe she's a woman for women because she made a comment

15:02Oti: To tell her.

15:04KT: About assault and I didn't like that. And I don't wanna get too much into detail because that wasn't the focus of this film. But I just wanted to lay it out there that sometimes I'm addressing my fellow women. Don't fucking pull women down. Don't fucking victim blame. Don't sex shame. Just mind your fucking business. If you can't support other women, mind your fucking business. That was a lot for saying I wouldn't say anything, but I get fucking murdered. Leave other women alone.

15:32Oti: Yeah. Barb was that sort of character throughout. I thought she'd be bigger in the movie though. She was used very minimally.

15:40KT: She kind of presented like a way to neutralize or to like nullify this character on the phone. Like, I really thought she would be the one. She would be our final girl. I thought she would be doing Jess's role. Yeah. She offered the most in way of not necessarily personality, but she offered the most of contextualizing what sort of character she was as opposed to like Phyl or even Jess, for example.

16:07Oti: People gravitated towards her at the party. You know, you could tell she was the center of attention. She wanted it that way. But there were some weird glances that people made every time Barb asked, oh, are you guys going to come with me for my Christmas thing? Was like Actually, yeah. They never addressed that, by the Yeah. It was weird, wasn't it?

16:28KT: It seemed like it was a sensitive topic and the girls knew to be there and support her. But yeah, that was interesting because then because something about Barb just screamed, I'm an asshole,

16:40KT: but I'm an asshole because of my past. Exactly. Sort of thing. Right? It was like, I was trying to understand why she isn't for women, first of all, but I was also trying to understand why she came to be the way that she was. And I guess we never really got that answered. I don't know, was just really interesting because she had the most sort of texture as a character, but then it kind of eventuated into nothing.

17:02Oti: Yeah. It's weird. And because we don't see her after the what? The first quarter of the movie, we don't really see her. She's pretty much in bed the whole time. Yeah.

17:16KT: So it was a weird take on that, but it gave us Jess. It did. It did give us Jess. And I guess before we move on to another character, maybe it's just me because I've lived in the city alone before. But if I have a nightmare that someone came in, a stranger came into my room and tried to hurt me, best believe I'm not staying in that bed for the rest of the night. Look, first of all, I'm not sleeping.

17:39KT: And if I am, I'm not in my apartment at that same night. That was a bit wild to me. But again, these are menial sort of details in the overall texture of this film. But I thought it was very interesting how she half questioned it, but she just continued sleeping like nothing was wrong. And I get that she wasn't well, but still. Let's discuss the order of kills in this film. How did you feel about the portrayal of the killings? Because according to IMDb trivia, pull your glasses up friends and lovers, It was decided

18:16KT: that eventually in the final cut, it would be a bit more subtle and not necessarily fully shown on screen.

18:26Oti: I don't think it took away from the horror of it all. I was still at the edge of my seat trying to figure everything out. Yep. They did manage to build the suspense quite well. I didn't think that us seeing the brutality of it distracted anything from the movie. Mhmm. I know we're pretty much desensitized to it all right now, the brutality of it all. But I I didn't I noticed it, but I didn't think, oh, it would have been better if we saw Barb's guts.

18:54KT: Yeah. I think I think it worked well to the fact that we never really see Billy. So it kind of fit the branding. True. It really did. And it it was just as gruesome. Even when you have Mrs. Mac like climbing up and you see that Billy has that hook ready to like swing her away. There are definitely moments of, you know, horror and also suspense, but let's go in order of the killing. So we have Clare Harrison, her boyfriend is Chris Hayden. I don't think he really played much of a role

19:30KT: in this film and she was essentially suffocated in plastic. She was the OG if you want professional virgin. And this was right after Barb was being an asshole to her. Yeah. And I'm like, don't let it be her. Don't let her be the first one to die. But you knew you were wrong when you said it. Well, it's also the more you ask, who's there? Who who are you? Where? Where? Who's there? The more you ask her. You're asking for trouble, mate.

20:01Oti: Yeah. It was sad seeing her go that quickly. And then I think the saddest spot for Clare is the dad waiting the whole movie Oh, that's sad. Trying to figure out exactly where she is because he doesn't even they don't even find the body because the movie ends when they're still up in the attic. Mhmm. Which is wild because I think because I think Peter did it, we're not gonna touch the house. What's the point? Actually, yeah. That doesn't make sense.

20:29KT: No. Because they find Phyl and Barb together on the bed. So it's not just that we find Jess and Peter and that's it. There is a presence of dead bodies in this house and you already know there's no way, go and listen to our Riders of Justice, that this is just coincidences, that Clare is missing and she's not somehow connected to the fact that these women are dead in their frat house.

20:54Oti: No. They from the dad's reaction and him fainting in shock, we pretty much take from that that he knows Clare is dead. Yep. It's just that they don't know where the body is. For me, the big mistake was because we have the almighty John Saxon, we fucking love him. He's a cop in pretty much fucking everything. And

21:17Oti: he's very competent. Against all odds, in horror movies, we usually get a really incompetent copper.

21:17KT: Thank you, Phil Oti Collins.

21:17Oti: You're welcome. In this case, he tries to unravel a lot of these things. He suspects people. He questions. He says, all these things that you're saying, they're just not coincidences. There has to be a connection somewhere. Yeah. And I love that about him. But then again, you don't search a house and you leave the victim there in the house that the murders took place.

21:44KT: Yeah. Like, you were so close, dude. You were so close. You were so close, yet so far, Speaking of the incompetent, let's talk about Sergeant Nash. Terrible. Friends and lovers, we might think we're Lieutenant Ken Fuller, but we're actually Sergeant Nash. Terrible.

22:06Oti: Absolutely terrible. He is terrible, you know. FE, the new area code.

22:13KT: It's where we live if not for way of Puss Valley. Oh, dear. The fellatio scene, not just ridiculous,

22:21Oti: man. You're so fucking believable.

22:23KT: Yeah. Fellatio sounds so nice. It sounds like a new sorbet flavor. Oh, wow. I'll take some fellatio and mint. Okay. You're not looking forward towards an after dinner, fellatio mint?

22:40Oti: Would it not be more cocoa fellatio?

22:43KT: Don't know. Friends and lovers. Oti demonstrates time and time again. Sergeant Nash. I think but I also think it was good they had a character like Sergeant Nash because it helped to suspend the disbelief that they didn't already realize that Clare was inside of the house. Yeah. If they had Fuller at the front of the investigation, even though, to be fair, he didn't even notice Clare there. But we needed to have some sort of suspense

23:16KT: in the film, and Sergeant Nash helped to push the fact that, yeah, they haven't found it yet because he's fucking incompetent. Yep. And then, you know, very, very quickly, we also have Mrs. Mac die as well. So that happens quite early in the film as well, which I think helps to bring some sort of, again, tension and also some interest in this film. She made it very clear that she's just about to leave to go to her sisters. So I guess that helps with any sort of concern that she might be missing.

23:51Oti: Yeah. Because she said, if you come back and I'm not here, just I've gone to my, you know, sisters or whatever. And that's it. Like, you'd never think to us about that shit. I'm not a professional, but I think she's got a problem. She does have a problem. The amount of effort it takes to hide all those alcohol bottles in their house Yeah. Just just have it in your purse on me. Do do

24:13Oti: what's the what's the guy with the big ass chain and clock? Just do a Flavor Flav with your bottle over there, with your flask. It might be ridiculous, but then you don't have to go and drink toilets, toilet alcohol.

24:24KT: Yeah. Unless well, Oti is nothing if not a solutions man, I suppose.

24:30Oti: Yeah. And before we leave Nash, he had one job. Fuller told Nash, call Jess, don't tell her anyone is in the killer's the phone is coming from the house, and just tell her to leave the house. Mhmm. One fucking job. And he'd blow it. And the minute he couldn't he couldn't come up with a fucking excuse or any reason.

24:51KT: Yep. He was just like, the phone call is coming from the house. Oh, bloody hell, man. He's not great. Yeah. He's not great. But then we don't expect much from him. So when that moment came, and I guess you can also say that's a payoff, because we knew he was useless, we knew he was going to fumble that scene.

25:08Oti: Yeah. Yeah. And those are the longest five minutes it took Fuller to reach Jess's house.

25:15KT: Yeah. You're you're not going to see a movie franchise of Sergeant Nash as the negotiator. It would be terrible. I really appreciated Fuller. I also appreciated that not only was Fuller competent in what he did, he also had a sense of humor as well. Because I think it's very easy to, you know, be serious and then be an asshole about being serious. But he was fun. Like he enjoyed the fellatio thing. It was just a great time and, you know, they had one of the officers just passing as

25:55KT: well and he was making jokes about it too. So he he definitely had the most dimension I would say in this. He did. He really did. He he gave such a Donald Pleasence swipe. The original Donald Pleasence. Yeah. Oh, yes. We love Dr. Loomis. He wasn't as campy though. I really enjoyed it. Yeah. He wasn't as campy, but think He's hamming it out. I think his campiness would have distracted from this movie if he was that campy. Yes. Absolutely. But yeah, Fuller definitely, he brought some credibility

26:24KT: into the film. And I, you know, if I sit here long enough, I would get annoyed and dubious to the fact that he didn't even think to check the attic, Unless it's one of those things where they know they'll check it later, but it's not pertinent to check now. I don't even know what the rules are. If a murder has occurred in a premise Yeah. Are you not meant to just cordon that shit off and investigate and do samples regardless of whether you think you've found the killer or not? Thanks, Horatio. But I think it's all about like modern,

26:56KT: like recent decades sort of investigation, not the nineteen seventies. Okay.

27:01Oti: I'll take Horatio.

27:04KT: He takes himself. Horatio or fellatio?

27:08Oti: Oh, it was so hard trying to watch that at the first, but once you get into it

27:08KT: But he's so into himself.

27:08Oti: You cannot answer. Like, you just have to give it time, and then you keep Horatio all the way.

27:21KT: Friends and lovers, I coined it Horatio fellatio, and I will fight I will fight all of the Twitters with zero followers. I created that on the podcast right now. But yeah, the only other thing I would say about Fuller because I was so impressed by his skill is I was disappointed that he left Jess in the house seemingly by herself because no one else was in that house at that point. I if we are to believe that he is thorough and he is skilled and he is talented,

27:54KT: I don't like that he thought it was okay to leave her there by the fact that the parents will come in the next morning.

28:01Oti: I didn't like that. No. There was a moment where he said that, who's gonna stay back? And looked over at Jess. And the doctor said, oh, I'll stay back. I'll stay here until the parents come. But when Clare's father came and collapsed, the doctor was like, oh, I need to go. But by that time, Fuller had already left the house. Okay. It's one of those things. It's annoying as fuck, but it's it was explained.

28:23KT: Well, you're deviating from your default habit to defend shitty men. So he was not super shitty, so I'll allow it. Wow. Let's talk about Phyl. She was the reliable friend. She even went down to the station with Mr. Harrison to get all the details and make sure everything and everyone was okay. She was definitely the silent sort of hero out of the friend group.

28:53Oti: And she didn't even get a glorious I don't even know if they showed her death on screen either. They didn't, but we just see her dead with Barb. She doesn't even get special attention. No. But it's weird. You're walking and doors are fucking closing behind you. I get it. You'd already talked with Jess that you'd be closing up doors and windows. Yep. But fucking hell. Like, I'd be so on my fucking nerves. I would never.

29:20KT: Yeah, you know what I thought was really interesting and I guess maybe they tried to portray it as very quaint. There were so many instances and with Phyl as well as Jess. So there were the kids that were caroling. There were also the men that seemed like they were waiting for a blowy, but there were instances where they were talking to people within the community

29:43KT: and they would very casually, like they were talking about the weather, oh, did you hear a girl got murdered in the park? They're like, oh, yes, yes, yes. And then just continue on like it's a normal fucking thing. Yeah.

29:55Oti: It was unsettling to see the list. I think it's all it's that mindset where shit happens, but yeah, it's not me. I'll continue. True. Mhmm. Very true. And then there was a moment where Phyl and Jess were giggling when the men were gone.

30:07KT: I was like, oh, I would rather be encountered with the killer. It's like, be careful what you wish for, mate. They got exactly what they wish for. Well, while we're talking about Phyl and Jess, you know, we've already said spoiler. We've already talked about nearing the ending. Do you think Jess dies? Do you think Billy kills Jess?

30:07Oti: Yes. That phone call to me said everything.

30:29KT: Well, yeah. Because you said, we've got conditional priming, the Pavlov of it all. Mhmm. He calls after he kills someone. Yeah.

30:39Oti: To me, it said, even if he deviates Mhmm. From this condition of calling after a murder, Jess is still alone in the fucking house with him. Yep. No way is Jess walking out of that house. At the very least, to me, the phone call signified it's happened or it's happening.

30:57KT: There is a part of me because if we're staying within the realms of the film and not the speculating on the interwebs, I did feel sorry for Billy because there were a couple of moments, I would say maybe around the time of Barb's killing

31:13KT: where he kind of felt like in the calls that he was asking for help. Like he was asking to like, please stop me. Like, can't keep doing this. Like, I don't know what the particular wording was, but there was a sense that he was like wanting someone to stop him.

31:13Oti: Yeah. He did say a lot though. And I think the using of different voices, the different personas I'd expect is

31:34Oti: really hard to for any person listening to it or the on the receiving end of that phone call Yeah. To be helpful in any way, especially when you go from super vulgar sexual shit to, oh, cries for help or choking or or even fapping at one point, I thought.

31:53KT: Was Many times, we know.

31:56Oti: It was I don't know how anyone would process that and think that, hey, let me sit let me be calm and talk to this guy and make sense of all this.

32:12KT: Yeah, I suppose. It was just interesting because I didn't have to give layers to Billy that we come to know as Billy, whoever Billy is. But they did put some, you know, little breadcrumbs there that perhaps Billy was acting on impulses that potentially he didn't want to.

32:25Oti: Yeah. Yeah. True. I think to me, Billy is super troubled. Like, I wouldn't even know where to start to try and diagnose or even help him. Yeah. It's

32:38KT: it's Well, stop handing out your fake prescriptions. You shouldn't be diagnosing anyone.

32:44Oti: Everyone has a WebMD now.

32:47KT: Unfortunately, very true. Let's talk about Janice. It kind of it kind of not necessarily became an afterthought, but I guess it just added layers to the menacing nature of Billy. Yeah.

33:02Oti: So chronologically, Janice stands fast. Yep. Because we get to see Billy get into the house through the vine lattice. And for fuck's sake, do people still do that? Yeah.

33:10KT: Our United States friends and lovers, is that a thing? Because it seems like it's only used for the purposes of if Creepers getting in the house. Creepers be creeping.

33:21Oti: Man, I'd chop mine down after watching any sort of movie. Yeah.

33:27KT: Like, you're gonna kill me, I'm not going to give you a ladder to get there. Yeah. Oh, I'll make it harder for you. Cloud just stares your fucking self.

33:38Oti: It's wild because we get to see all this dead subtle car, and they do as such. We see Chris play a big role in this. Yes. In as much as he wasn't we didn't see him a lot in the movie, he did play this as exactly. His pivotal contribution to the movie where he goes to the police station, gives and gives Nash an earful

33:56Oti: where we get off Fuller coming and be like, oh, let me hurry up. He explains the situation and Fuller's like, okay, there's two things, surely they're cool. It's obvious that it needs to be investigated and he had to lay it out for Nash and Nash still didn't fucking get why.

34:07KT: Well, I guess because it includes work, especially when you don't wanna do work. Yeah. And you do a search party and they find Janice relatively quickly.

34:19Oti: Yeah. And the thing with Billy, he does not hide his bodies too. He doesn't go above and beyond to hide the bodies. Yeah. You know? He's not was suspecting him, and no one even found him by the end of the film. So fair. True. He didn't need to.

34:33Oti: But I think it's a sort of drill of thought, you know, after Janice then, you know, that definitely something is wrong. But I thought everyone just reacted as if, oh, this is a one off thing. Even though I think Fuller suspected a bigger thing. Outside of the realms of the film, we didn't see that. Yeah. Yeah. Jess feel all good about about, oh, they know Clare is missing or whatever, but they still don't think that there's anything wrong per se. Yeah. I don't know. It's weird. It's just wild. It is wild. And

35:03KT: I wonder, I wonder, I wonder because they did try to make us believe that Peter was the killer. And do you think Billy only kills women? I don't even mean this in like a misogynistic way. I'm just wondering. I feel like Peter only died at the hands of Jess. Do you think he has a vendetta against women?

35:22Oti: I I think so because the opportunities to kill Peter. Peter is upstairs by himself He's for some whole time. A million times he's in the house. So those are the opportunity for Peter to be killed, but that doesn't happen. So maybe maybe he's just targeting women. Maybe he has an agenda against women. Maybe and I guess that's outside of the realm.

35:42KT: Maybe that's in the other sequels that we might give some time before we watch. Let us just revel in how much we love this film. I do see myself rewatching this in a couple of years.

35:42Oti: Me too. Me too.

35:42KT: I think everything was just laid out so perfectly and I didn't mention it in the first impressions, but I really I really appreciated the dialogue

36:00Oti: And in this the thing that really got to me or at least blew me away at the end of the movie is just how much this is sort of in the backseat of a lot of the horror movies that you get mentioned to. Well, yeah. Right? Yeah. It's weird because I think, to me, at least, fucking stick a mask on Billy, and he becomes a cult classic instantly. They make Black Christmas two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, whatever bum fuck wall.

36:31KT: Well, it's not to say and again, without just being able to enjoy this film and not furthering the research and staying within the realms of the film, maybe there were possibilities to leverage that. But I guess if we reflect on what we've covered on our podcast, I've talked about Child's Play as much as I love, you know, Don Mancini and Brad Dourif and the many decades we've loved and lauded Chucky, as well as Halloween, not so much so. But with those two first offering films in particular,

37:03KT: I don't even see, and I don't even feel the need that they needed to be leveraged films off of it. Right? But here I could kind of like, based on the fact that we really enjoyed this first film, it definitely has the legs and as we love a firm foundation. To build on top of. And who knows for whatever reasons why there weren't any, but maybe it's for the best. Yeah. And I know

37:29Oti: Hollywood loves its fucking merchandising. And I think if Beanie had a fucking face and he wasn't anonymous

37:36KT: Oh, Bobby V.

37:38Oti: We got a Trey Songz the other week. Now we got Bobby V. If he wasn't anonymous, he had a fucking face, he had a fucking mask on, we would be talking about something different. Billy would be something.

37:50KT: Silver Shamrock.

37:51Oti: And that's just a guarantee, man. But sometimes sometimes maybe this particular

37:57KT: is a beautiful lesson in just enjoying a film as a film. Because whenever you have the appetite for more, you will get more and you'll want it to stop. But unfortunately it will continue. I really enjoyed this film. I look forward to watching this film again in a couple of years time and when we're feeling a bit brave to try the 2006 and the 2019 version.

38:23Oti: At the start of this podcast, you mentioned that this is not a Christmas movie. So I am just wondering what in your mind defines a Christmas movie to you?

38:23KT: It's set in Christmas and it's about Christmas.

38:36KT: What more do you want? How many times do I have to tell you we should cover this Christmas?

38:36Oti: Is Home Alone a Christmas movie?

38:36KT: Yes.

38:43Oti: It's set in Christmas and it's not about Christmas.

38:48KT: Well, as a child that kept getting left by their family in various places, I would say yes, because they were celebrating Christmas without the child.

38:58Oti: But here we get people.

39:00KT: No, they just had Christmas decorations in the background. They were in jovial Christmas fest mode

39:07Oti: mate. They had kids singing at the doorsteps.

39:11KT: Call off your anti Christmas dogs because I don't have to agree. Just don't think it's a Christmas movie. I'm also very disappointed in you that our first Christmas movie that we covered was It's a Wonderful Life. And how fucking depressing was I love a depressing movie, but don't give me the jovial nature of Christmas and make me fucking sad. I'll be sad for three hundred and sixty four days, but not on Christmas. Also, friends and lovers, callback.

39:42KT: The setting of Bedford is a is a nod to another sad, not Christmas film. It's a Wonderful Life.

39:42Oti: It's a Wonderful Life is a Christmas movie and it's amazing. And I would be adding this

39:55Oti: Black Christmas to the staple of a probably yearly watch.

39:55KT: Don't speak on behalf of me. You're not my Hokage. Just because you're Kakashi doesn't mean that you have a say this way. But you're the third Hokage. I might have been mean to fucking Naruto, but, mate, at least I'm not spending 300 episodes in bed, in a hospital bed.

40:17KT: That's to comfort our anime friends and lovers. We see the downloads. Thank you so much for checking out our podcast. And you're probably waiting for us to cover more anime, which I'm sure we will do in the near future. Is there anything else you wanna tackle, my love?

40:29Oti: I really enjoyed this. I think if you've listened to all this way and you haven't watched the movie, please do. And just appreciate what it did for the industry because I think it did a lot and a lot of movies borrowed from it. Mhmm. It's definitely a true slash-ic.

40:48KT: And what's the sci for? Because you said it while we were watching and I was hoping you wouldn't immortalize it on the podcast, but there you go. It really is. It's a slash-ic. Perfect segue. We're gonna finish off in a segment we call for reference, Oti.

41:03Oti: I'm gonna reference an episode we've already covered, and It's a Wonderful Life. In this festive period of the year, A Wonderful Life will bring joy into your hearts.

41:14KT: Oh, nice. I'm going to continue on the pain. Alright. Not Major Payne, which you keep trying to put in the tapestry of black cinema. If we're talking about a film that is filled with suspense and horror that we didn't know about, but we felt fully encapsulated while we were watching it. I am referencing the 2019 director Jay Baruchel starring Jesse Williams, Random Acts of Violence. Oh. Yes.

41:50Oti: Don't worry. I'd forgotten about that, did he?

41:50KT: Don't worry about me, Oti.

41:55KT: If you would like to see Random Acts of Oti on Twitter and Instagram, we're at ForYourRefPod. Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also on Leaning Tower of Pisa Humpers podcast if you'd like to leave a rating and review. And we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.