Halloween – Don’t get your Myers crossed

Full transcript of Halloween – Don’t get your Myers crossed.

0:00KT: Ookies in your spluce places, friends and lovers. It's another week in the For Your Reference household. We have some genuinely very serious, you know, warnings and PSAs at the start of our episode. This one's a bit more lighter. However, this is an opinion review based podcast, and you will start to hear or maybe Oti will surprise us. If you love the Halloween franchise and you cannot bear the thought of it being torn potentially to carpenter's shreds Freak the warning. And there you go. With as much seriousness as this fucking tangled mess.

0:43KT: Let's get on with the show. Halloween, friends and Haddonfield lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. I'm your host, KT.

0:43Oti: And Oti.

0:43KT: Welcome to an earnest attempt at an iconic franchise. Sorry. Welcome to an anthology that does not relate to previous offerings. Welcome back to the iconic franchise, but also not. Welcome to the franchise's two tumultuous round melon breasts being supported by the broad shoulders of LL Cool J erotica.

1:45Oti: Oh.

1:47KT: I'm not done yet. Welcome to providing contextual insight of what made the icon come to be. You know what? At this fucking point, you decide to welcome yourself. Take it or leave it shirt tuckers. Hold on to your pumpkins friends and lovers because we are going to get into this franchise. How are you feeling Oti?

2:16Oti: I am sucked to hear what you have to say about this.

2:21KT: I do believe, Oti, with my Oti Abacus, that this franchise has the most films that we've covered so far. Obviously, knocking Chucky out from last year. Yeah. Even including the new Chucky TV show, which is brilliant. Go and check it out. Mhmm. Mhmm. You know, if you fully love the franchise, you're going to be able to recite it when you wank over yourself at night. So I'm not going to go into, you know, the general stats and information.

2:49KT: I'm sure James Cameron and the white savior of it all in Avatar are jealous of all of the Eywa tentacles that we have in this fucking timeline. But we're definitely going to talk about this franchise. It's gonna be a lot of fun, friends and lovers. I guess just in a snapshot, is it a thumbs up or a thumbs down Oti?

2:49Oti: Thumbs down.

2:49KT: Damn, dawg. We're getting sodomized that quickly. That quickly.

3:16Oti: It's a lot more faster than Michael Myers would ever get to you. I'll tell you that much for sure.

3:21KT: Welcome, welcome friends and lovers. There are, like we said, and as you probably are aware, a lot of timelines in Halloween lore. We're going to get into, I guess, first impressions because we both watched Halloween for the first time last year and we didn't continue from the first movie. And we decided to pick up the whole franchise this year. So I guess let's just, you know, let let's give some sort of pepperings. Let's give some sort of pumpkin flavored spice tastings on this.

3:55Oti: In my circles, I've always heard of Michael Myers. You know? Yeah. In the back of your mind, as a kid, Michael Myers. Yeah. You know, white hats, didn't really white mask, didn't really pay too much attention to him. Yeah.

3:55KT: You You didn't. If you thought he was wearing a white hat.

3:55Oti: Might as well be. But it's one of the things where in the select few things that I was able to watch as a kid,

4:18Oti: if it's not Friday the thirteenth or Nightmare on Elm Street, I really didn't have capacity for one that I didn't really it didn't really thrill me that much. Okay. But I think nostalgia plays a big, big part in why it's why he's regarded as a fucking icon. Because to me, if you need like six fucking timelines to rehash fuck someone's fucking origin, then there's a problem. Oh, yeah. So there's a fundamental issue. And we know in the FYR household, the foundation

4:52Oti: is the base of fucking everything. You need a firm foundation, otherwise, what's the fucking point?

4:52KT: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I I guess while we're here, my love, which

5:01KT: I'm not even gonna talk about like the whole you can talk about the timeline or you can say the movie. Which is your favorite?

5:01Oti: Oh, I think I think the first Rob Zombie movie.

5:01KT: Okay. I agree. We'll come to it. We'll we'll talk about the timelines, but I'm glad we definitely agree. But don't worry, H20 is a very close second in my heart, James.

5:19Oti: Michael saw LL Cool J and he was like, this there's is a a black black feta? Fella? What What the the fuck fuck is is this? This? And then he got used to black people and then he started killing them. Equal opportunity. Yeah. Equal opportunity. But at first, he was startled. He was like, woah. What the fuck is this? I'm pretty sure that Key and that Key and Peele sketch

5:48KT: Go and check out our Key and Peele episode, friends and lovers, if you're feeling nasty. My first impressions, I yeah. I never watched any Halloween films until recently last year. We did release a Patreon exclusive October 2020, where we talked about watching Halloween for the first time. Obviously to say spoiler, spoiler, spoiler or Shirt Tucker's motherfuckers essentially. But we talked about the first film and how we didn't necessarily understand how this spawned decades of love and adulation and just pure passion for Michael Myers in general.

6:30KT: We had only watched the first movie last year. So, like, he he stabbed someone with a steak knife and, you know, defying all logic, they stayed suspended in the air. But that was nothing compared to the Michael Myers that we meet later on

6:45KT: in the timelines. And I guess it makes sense now that we've watched the other movies, but based on that first movie, I don't know. But I also said that about Child's Play to be fair. Like, when when I watched the first Child's Play, I enjoyed it and I love the whole franchise of Chucky. I just don't understand how a whole, like, franchise gets spawned off of those initial sort of offerings. So I guess first impressions in regards to the Halloween franchise,

7:09KT: if you love it, I'm not gonna yuck your yum, friends and lovers. Especially if your yum is heavy breathing out of a window. I'm talking about Paul Rudd. I'm not even talking about Michael Myers. Oh, wow. Wow. But yeah, first impressions, I'm glad I went through the journey. I feel like, you know, in the climate of everything that's going on, it was nice to have movies to look forward to. Even though I didn't really feel the full crescendo

7:34KT: that I was hoping to feel, especially the way that I felt watching Chucky for the first time last year. Get used to the comparisons, friends and lovers, because the next theme well, first thing we're going to get into is Michael Myers, the icon, the legend. How do you think he stacks up?

7:50Oti: He doesn't. To me, he fucking doesn't. Yeah. There's this whole mystery around him that we don't know who the fuck. How in the fuck he bloody operates at the base level? The motivations. Leave alone the bloody motivation. Just what the fuck? Why can't he die? Yeah. Jason has fucking died. Freddy has died. Who the fuck is this guy? Yeah. Why? Why? Explain it to me. If it's supernatural, where's the element? And don't bring with that fucking

8:20Oti: white horse nonsense that Rob Zombie tried to introduce later on. It's just I don't know. I just couldn't connect with this character at all because I had so many Anastas questions. I was really I really wanted to have another cult, iconic horror classic, you know, that we could go to, you know, next year if you're not rewatching Chucky or trying to rewatch

8:42Oti: Nightmare on Elm Street or anything like that. How about It? Fuck it. You're small. We had a you're small instance. We did. But we'll come to that later on in this lore. And I think part of it was, I just here's the fucking icon. I don't know why.

8:56Oti: If I watch this as a baby, then maybe yes. Maybe I'll find, oh, this fucking scared me. Yeah. That white mask. Oh, man. It was scary. He was carrying a kitchen knife. Oh, man. I am but right now, watching it the first time last year, I was like, what the fuck was this? He just stood outside the window all the time. Yeah. No. And I was like, I I just didn't get the concept. And I think part of it that at least makes me feel like I'm valid in my fucking opinion

9:22Oti: is John Carpenter himself was like, mate, I'm not doing this shit anymore. Yeah. He like Mortal Kombat Annihilation down to that motherfucker. This is meant to be a fucking anthology, and he was forced to do a second one. And he was like, yeah. In the second one, I'll kill all of them fucking off. But nah, man. The studio on the execs had to put their seer in it, didn't they? No. But okay. So so let's talk about the anthology nature of it all. It doesn't work either. Compared

9:51Oti: to the rest of the shit, compared to Paul Rudd's fucking movie, Halloween six, I'd I'd watch the third Halloween a million times before going back to Paul Rudd's.

9:57KT: It's called The Curse of Michael Myers, not Tommy Doyle Paul Rudd.

10:06Oti: It might as well be. Yeah.

10:08KT: Yeah. I suppose so. No, I absolutely agree. I enjoyed the score. Like the theme music was really great. And this kind of rolls into the next theme that I kind of wanted to generally sort of discuss. And did it ever find its voice? And I'm going to sixty minutes myself if you're nasty. No, it didn't. I don't feel like this franchise found its voice because it was so transparently influenced by the decade it was released in.

10:41KT: Yep. There was no succinct voice that Michael Myers had that stood out in any way. There was the component that you talk about where he's just killing for the sake of killing. Even with Jason, especially in the first movie, we get the contextual sort of history as to why Jason Voorhees himself. It behooves him to Voorhees himself. Right? So all of the like, you can have silent sort of like horror icons, but for me personally,

11:11KT: like, I need to know why you're doing what you're doing. Whether I'm gonna cheer you on, whether I'm going to besmirch you, I need to know why we are and where we're going and why. That's what I need to know. If you're just going around stabbing with a steak knife and then they kept upping the ante, like it was obvious that they were trying to compete, you know, with the offerings that were currently out there. You think about Scream, you think about like the

11:36KT: what do you call it? The Blair Witch Project, like the found footage of it all. Like in, I guess, like the real world MTV, like that sort of thing. It was so peppered by the decades that it came out in. And because it never really had a voice, it kinda got lost in all of that. Even the fact throughout all of the timelines, I would say, come and fight me motherfuckers. They kept referring to him as like the boogeyman and also Michael Myers. They also like reference Jeffrey Dahmer, also other, you know, big infamous

12:06KT: sort of serial killers. And Sandman as well was quite a famous sort of song that was used throughout all of the timelines as well. Branding is everything. Branding is every fucking thing. And it just felt so haphazardly. It's like, dude, we're like twenty, thirty, forty, like a million years later, where no offense, Laurie Strode kinda looks the same age as the sheriff in Halloween Kills. But that's another story for another day. Like, I I just don't feel like it found its footing

12:37KT: in throughout Child's Play and all of the Chucky franchises, totally, it definitely changes. And I live for the campiness.

12:45KT: Go and listen to our episode if you haven't checked it out already. So tonally, it can change,

12:51KT: but I don't foundationally, if your horror icon doesn't have a voice, it's definitely going to get lost, especially if it succumbs to the decadeisms. I guess, but you know, with having the voice bit is. He doesn't even have an iconic weapon either. Well, there's a kitchen knife, a big ass kitchen knife. Yeah. But then he would like, like poking eyes out, gore style. It

13:12KT: just it felt like it was it was it was so responsive. It was so reactive of what it was trying to compete with. It never really found a voice to me.

13:12Oti: Yeah. True. I I think

13:23Oti: my my biggest qualm with this is that every time they try to explain it in a different way, there's no coherent, like, I'm going to erase everything that happened before so I could do it my own way, or I just I got tired. There was a lot of retcon. Yeah. I got tired of the back and forth. I got tired there was no continuity. And when those continuity, it was just not good.

13:47KT: No. For what purpose, sir?

13:52Oti: For what? For who? The different Laurie Strodes didn't help. Like, Halloween four to six, I thought four started off quite, you know, oh, I think I was excited to see four just because It goes back. Three yeah. It goes back. And I wanted to see what they'll do with the character. Mhmm. But then when I got to six, I was so disappointed.

14:13Oti: Yeah. I was so disappointed that I thought, okay. Maybe maybe this did really mean to work as an anthology, and I I'd live for that. We did need a new iconic character in Michael Myers who has apparently the most fucking kills in all horror movies. Yeah. Which fucking beggars believe, but but it it's not what it's not deserved. No. He doesn't deserve the accolade. He really doesn't. No. And it feels so it feels so cheap. I have issues with Pennywise, but goddamn, man. Yeah. Jeez.

14:46Oti: I'd I'd rather watch Pennywise than a couple of times than rather than try to rehash all these fucking timelines and all the fucking stories and everyone's opinion on what Michael Myers is and how he should be and how he operates. His air ball fucking kept on changing. Yeah. You know? There was no MO. Just and

15:04Oti: when you come to me and say It was the bargain bin of MOs. Me, you've got an IP, Halloween. It's fucking great. You know, it's yeah. That's cool and all. But I think a different direction just needed to be taken with the character altogether.

15:18KT: Yeah. And they tried. I think it's I think it's exactly like you're saying, friends and lovers, you mind your business. I'll mind my business, but this is a fucking toxic relationship. Because if you if you try and retry a franchise as much as a relationship, that's a problem. You got a problem. Mhmm. But let let's let's talk about the different sort of timelines. And I guess, you know, the good things, but probably mostly the frustrating things that came out at us. Let's talk about like the first two, the actual first two, the 1978,

15:51KT: the 1981 films. For a long time, they were kind of the highest earning of the offerings in the timelines for quite a while until later on with H20. But how did you feel about the first two? Individually,

16:08Oti: a piece felt great, but together, I could see, it made sense a bit. I thought, you know, it's not Godfather level where how to supplement Godfather one. Godfather three. Not to that level, but I think it sort of tied in a bit of things that I thought, okay, I can I can I can see where this is going, and I can see that they're trying to make it a bit more coherent? And then by by the end of Halloween two and how it ended, I thought, oh, this is weird because we had not read

16:37Oti: that John Carpenter didn't want to continue with Halloween. Because this is where Loomis dies. It's also where Michael Myers I was a bit shocked. I was like, okay. You're killing all your you're killing all your titular characters.

16:47Oti: So what the fuck does it mean for this franchise? Yeah. You know? And and then when It the was opposite of Game of Thrones where they killed nobody. Yeah. And and then when it come to Halloween three, was a bit you know, in as much as I didn't take to Michael Myers as much, I was a bit taken That's what we're here for. He's the headliner. Exactly. I was take I was I was a bit taken aback. I was, like, expecting something different to happen. It's like some Lauryn Hill shit, making you wait for no reason. And I think at the time I was really frustrated.

17:13Oti: I was really frustrated up until

17:15Oti: Halloween four. And I was like, okay, maybe I'm starting to appreciate what John Carpenter had a vision for what Halloween ought to be. And seeing that he closed off Halloween to the way it did, and I think, you know what? I I would have been happier for it to end that that way. I'll be like, you know what? We've got a really, really good character in Loomis. Yeah. Oh, can we talk? Okay. We'll we'll talk about Loomis in a sec. I fucking love Loomis. We've got a really good character in Loomis, I think he was the standout for me. Oh,

17:42Oti: Donald Pleasence. Rest in peace. And as much as I love Jamie Lee Curtis as Laurie Strode, fucking Loomis stole the show. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And and to me, was like, oh my god. You know, I I cannot name any other secondary character aside outside of Chucky that that stood out as much as Loomis. And I was like, wow. How dire, Tiffany and Glen. And and I think I was and seeing how everything just revealed or how everything

18:09Oti: panned out Mhmm. You know, When we say Hansard is fucking king, you get to see, okay, maybe maybe maybe he had an he had valid opinions on how this should go because Michael Myers, I think, to me in my world and in my circles were never fucking iconic. We really didn't pay much too much attention on Halloween because

18:29Oti: my memory from a kid, when I tried dabbling in, especially when LL came in with H20 Uh-huh. It still didn't fucking connect.

18:29KT: Didn't you have full hair on your chest at that point when H20 came out?

18:29Oti: I think anything past five years ago, just referred to myself as a fucking kid.

18:48KT: Welcome to the boomer reference chat, friends and lovers. One and two, yeah, like I didn't immediately latch onto Child's Play. So

18:57KT: I guess like credences and also, you know, I'm just throwing a bone to the Halloween friends and lovers essentially.

18:57Oti: And get that. I appreciate that because to me, I when I watched Chucky, I connected from it from the get go.

18:57KT: Because you watched it when you were younger.

18:57Oti: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get So nostalgia plays a big part, and I think a lot of our pod friends who love Halloween,

19:17Oti: that's one of the things. You know? I watched it as a kid, and I just took to it. Watch it now for the first time and you're like, mate, get your glasses on. I think that's the same as porn searches, isn't it? It's like even even though it's a bit vanilla, it'll still get you off today because of the memories. Yeah. You know, Stone doing the iconic scene Basic Instinct, but then, man, would pause that fucking shit for ages. Right now, I'm like, man, what's this? Okay. Okay.

19:43KT: So this is a unfortunately, it is so perfect. Unfortunately, it is so perfect how you segued Halloween three. Friends and Lovers, KT from the For Your Reference podcast. There's a slice of cinema history that I just cannot enjoy because it feels like most of the time it's gross straight cisgendered men writing their perverted fantasies about women. And that's what happened in Halloween three because what the fuck was that storyline? She almost looked as young as that girl in Spartacus.

20:22KT: Go and listen to our Spartacus episode, also go and watch Spartacus if you haven't already. But there was definitely a dynamic in Halloween three that I didn't care for. And I guess this is really the only relevant time. Like I didn't enjoy Basic Instinct. Maybe if I had watched it when I was young impressionable and I was still figuring out where my bean was, maybe I would have enjoyed the movie a lot more, but like being a whole adult now, traveling all the beans around the world, it felt very perverted, Basic Instinct essentially.

20:52KT: And I keep promising our patrons we're gonna watch it together and we will. But there was an element in Halloween three that I didn't like, but let's talk about Halloween three generally. The

21:03KT: Men in Suits, I guess if we had known that there wasn't really going to be a full aspect of Michael Myers in this, maybe I could have just understood that it was a separate sort of film. Because you're waiting for it. Once you name it as part of a fucking sequence and and we try not to watch trailers or read stuff, we try to just, you know, enjoy it for what it is, that becomes a problem. You know what also is kind of a problem? I don't know Friends and Lovers if anyone watched it outside of when it came out in 1982,

21:33KT: but it kinda felt very caricaturish in how it portrayed Irish people. Because they even had a Rose of Shannon motel. Can we calm Like, sure to be sure, but still.

21:44Oti: How else would you know what Shamrock Town made?

21:49KT: Okay. So this is the positive. This is the positive I will bring into Halloween three. It had the most hookiest of of tunes and jingles. And the mask sort of element, apparently, it it catastrophically, like, increased sales because of the masks that they made as part of promotion of the movie. But I loved counting down the Halloween. Like, I knew the kids were gonna die, but I was enjoying Silver Shamrock. Like, I was enjoying I like that element. I I really enjoyed it. It it was just very confusing. It was very hazy

22:24KT: coming out of Halloween two, knowing that Loomis is dead, apparently knowing that actually, apparently for both of them, that Michael Myers was dead and then not really know what was happening. But that Silver Shamrock really kept me going. It did. But again, caricature ish, portrayal of Irish people. And on behalf of Irish people, I take offense. Unless they don't take offense, then that's okay. Let's move on into the other. I think we've talked about this timeline the most. We're talking about four, five, and six.

22:52KT: As far as I understand, I try not to get too much into detail, especially if I know nothing about the franchise. I just try to enjoy it as it is. But a recurring theme in these timelines is like Jamie Lee Curtis tapping out.

23:09KT: She was on a Kurt Angle shit. She was just like, she was just fucking tapping out. Dipping in, tapping out whenever she felt like it. So I'm assuming that's why the angle of the niece, Jamie Lloyd came along. Yeah. Because she came. She said that as soon I'm coming. I'm only coming back if you I I get killed off within the first fucking five minutes of the movie. Mhmm.

23:32Oti: So in Halloween four, Loomis fucking pops out of nowhere with a fucking scar. And I'm like, mate, you fucking exploded. They don't explain shit. I was all like, okay. Mate, we'll forgive it. What the fuck is coherent stories? Fucking overwritten anyway. Yeah. Yeah.

23:50KT: Because whoever's going to get their cojones off are going to get it off anyway. Exactly. They don't need cohesive storyline. Mhmm. What the fuck is that?

23:59Oti: So I I took it as, okay, a rebirth. I'm glad that Michael Myers is back. I'm trying to give it a real go now to see how they're going to walk with him or how they're going to give him his branding. I think I thought this is where the block where I would get to see the iconic Michael Myers where everyone loves and applauds. And but we didn't get that. No. We didn't get that. Nope. But I did I did still enjoy four. I did enjoy four

24:25Oti: just because it was something different from three. And I think watching it back to back, three creates that sort of palette refresher, palette cleanser. Uh-huh. And you're like, okay. Yeah. I'm ready to dive in for some more Michael Myers shit. Give me some senseless fucking killing and something.

24:39KT: Senseless fucking killing. That is the whole fucking tagline, Oti. Yeah.

24:44Oti: And and I was in for it. I love the fact that we got to see Jamie Lloyd. I was like, okay. Cool. We're we're creating some sort of bloodline sort of, you know, he'll be like, oh, since I I already killed Laurie, I I need to clear out my bloodline or whatever. Like, can make sure it's something. Or something whatever reason they had in there, my fucking mind, I was in for it. But then at the end of Halloween four and we get to five, we focus more on Jamie Lloyd, and she's fucking annoying. That look that no. But I think it was in Halloween four. There was fucking like, the first iteration of an incel was in that fucking movie. Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. That's that's an incels bible.

25:20Oti: By the time we get to five, I think the focus hour is fully on Jamie Lloyd, and I just could not stand her at all. I think the acting was horrible,

25:30Oti: especially when I have a lot of, a lot, a lot of attacks put in this sort of movies where I really don't go in thinking, oh, you need to put some performance in because

25:30KT: But you still want a good time.

25:30Oti: I still want a good time, but her performance distracted me from that. Yeah. I couldn't pull myself into a bubble and see that, oh, I just wanna see Michael Myers do shit to these people.

25:54KT: Because this is when Jamie became nonverbal as well. Yeah.

25:56Oti: And and it just and for the kid, like, I thought she did really amazing, awesome stuff. Like, I was like, wow. But then it became nonverbal. It became a lot of screaming, and I was like, it just bloody pissed me off.

26:09KT: It it really did piss me off. But it it it felt like, let's keep going and figure it out. We we don't know where the stairs are, but we're going to fucking build it as we climb the stairs. That's definitely how it felt, especially in Halloween five. And considerable steam was exhausted in Halloween five and then Halloween six. And it's like, so this is Jamie, like trying to escape with her baby. And then you've got Paul Rudd, who's like stolen the baby.

26:39KT: And it becomes a whole fucking thing. I think, I don't know, like, I guess, because if we're talking about Halloween six, that came out in 1995 and the first iteration came out in 1978. So I guess there's a lot of decades of people that have loved this film. But can I just say, because we're going to get to Halloween Kills? Right? We're going to get to the newest timeline, the most recent timeline. I don't fucking care about

27:05KT: half maybe squinting in the background extras. Like, I don't care about your fucking story, Tommy Doyle. Yeah. Which surprised me to see Tommy fucking Doyle as a fucking centerpiece in the latest timeline.

27:17Oti: I'm like, oh, fucking remembers this fucking shithead.

27:17KT: You're probably tuned out by the time Tommy Doyle was fucking introduced.

27:25KT: Put it on your Myspace profile and move on.

27:29Oti: And for him to talk to Jamie Lee Curtis as if they fucking knew each other, Jamie Lee was already fucking dead by the time he was there. Yeah. And I'm like, me. Me. What stake do you have in this, sir? You just don't bring nostalgia for fucking nostalgia's sake. Because then you get Paul Rudd and you're gonna have a bad time. Exactly.

27:44KT: Oh, bloody hell. I don't know, but that man does not age. So maybe some sort of sacrifices were made on the set of Halloween six. So that's so that's the timeline, you know, from one and two, four to six. Let's move into one of the most fun. It's not necessarily campy, but I do feel like this is kind of at the end of like a black tie cocktail event where we're like putting our hair down, we're enjoying ourselves.

28:14KT: John David Washington isn't here trying to demand mac and cheese. So we're having a good time. We're enjoying ourselves. We're letting loose, we're taking our hair down, we're taking our earrings out. We might not have a bra on anymore, especially because LL Cool J's in the building. So we have the original Halloween, Halloween two, and then spawning off on that, we have H20 and we have resurrection. I love well,

28:39KT: I I love H20. Resurrection, I I don't need to talk a lot about, but I wanna talk about them separately. I wanna talk about H20. I feel like this is one of the better departures and and restitching, Chucky voodoo doll stitching, not Omari Hardwick and the voodoo he had. But this is one of the better stitchings of spawning into a new sort of timeline.

29:01Oti: Yeah. I think by that time I was excited just because he's a fucking black main character, semi main and

29:13KT: Fully loaded main. How dare you?

29:16Oti: Because I've seen black guys before. I think there was two cops in the previous iteration, but they were in the in the screen for, like, five seconds. But this time we had LL Cool J, who we fucking love. I was like, mate, I'm ready for this. Yeah. I'm excited. I I I pumped myself up for this. Oh, I was pumping myself. Don't you worry. And jokingly said to each other, he's not gonna die. Because this is the fucking first time we've seen a black guy there. So

29:50Oti: and our our prophecy was fucking fulfilled. Yeah. You know? Only can I spew into the next one? Only for fucking Busta Rhymes, who was a bloody ridiculous character to start off with? You broke my neck with that. Oh my god. I was I was like, I did not even expect half of the shit he did there. You know, from his fucking kung fu or whatever the fuck he was trying to do. He was referencing Wu Tang. It was bloody

30:19KT: I can't even. I can't even. But let's talk about H20 because we have quite a substantial cast. Looking at the timelines, they all kind of straddled like low tens to maybe mid fifteens millions. Halloween H20, $55,000,000 worldwide.

30:44Oti: Twenty years, mate. People were eager.

30:48KT: H20, I don't know if you do text talk in movie titles anymore, but it was very much a mark of the late nineties to call it H20. Yep. But this cast is pretty stacked. So we've got LL Cool J and I could really my two voluptuous melon breasts could just stay there. But we also have Michelle Williams,

31:11KT: Jodi Lynn O'Keefe, Josh Hartnett Woo hoo. As well as Joseph Gordon-Levitt. Mhmm.

31:11Oti: We get a really good slew of up and comers, and I think I I really enjoyed it. Yeah. It was campy as fuck.

31:24KT: But Okay. Okay. Relative to the rest of the timelines, yes, this was the campiest, I would say.

31:24Oti: Yeah. And I I loved it. I loved it. You know, seeing seeing the ridiculous storylines,

31:35Oti: seeing the fucking muscleless minors, and knowing that they're not taking themselves too seriously and trying to explain the enigma that is Michael Myers. Because they never tried. They never ventured into that. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, okay. You know? I loved it. Yeah. And I started getting recollections of me watching semblance of it back in the day. I was like, oh, this is for me. I think I watched this before. Yeah. And they see that's the problem with Funky Michael Myers. I've watched this shit before, but it never really stuck.

32:04KT: Yeah. That that kind of says it in and of itself. But H20, if if Rob Zombie didn't exist, especially his initial Halloween, which will come to, If it didn't exist, I think H20 would be my favorite movie. Unfortunately, it still doesn't address why Michael Myers is all, you know, he's very stabby, trigger happy. Yeah. Like he likes stabbing people. Like it never really explained that, but at this point, after so many movies, I guess I kind of gave up on me trying to care about why we even,

32:40KT: you know, why we're even tuning in. I was just taking the franchise for what it was. But H20, I think, did a great job. And this is where I kind of a bit of a spoiler, you know, in the periphery ahead for the recent sort of timeline. This H20, it feels more, I guess, more grounded in regards to like Laurie Strode. She's she's still in the world, but she's trying to mind her business. Obviously, Halloween, she'll bunker down and mind her business even more. But you know, here she's a headmaster

33:12KT: for a prestigious sort of school. She's still living, she's loving, she's thriving, she's having a good time, but it's always at the back of her minds that Michael might appear and you know, the the the the the threat of it, you know, the phantom the phantom limb of your sibling to come and haunt you for the rest of your life. So the fact that she was so ill prepared,

33:34KT: I think that played very well in H20 as opposed to the recent timeline, which is, you know, we'll come to that when we come to when we come to that. But I really like H20. I absolutely enjoyed it. I guess we can talk about like horror films and the genre in general. I think when it comes to like mainstream horror icons, I think they play better with me when they're not taken as seriously. Know, Seed of Chucky is my favorite out of all of the Chucky's, obviously Bride of Chucky as

34:10KT: well. And I think that's why I really like H20. As much as I hate myself for loving Jason X, it's one of the best experiences I've ever had in my life. Jason goes to bloody space. What's not to love about that movie? Yeah. But I I I just it was one of those indulgent it was one of those midnight meets meet me at the fridge and I'll flick you off.

34:29Oti: And I think that's that's that's the thing. Because when you have a solid foundation and character and development and you have the storyline, you can fucking play and and veer off to fucking uncharted uncharted territory. You can rat And slap it off. You know? And that's what they did. We we we don't Bride of Chucky,

34:50Oti: Jason X, you get you get to have fun with the character because at the end of the day, we know the foundation is done and it's solid, and they can pull it back into whatever it is. Freddy vs. Jason. Kelly Rowland. Yeah. Tongue kissing. Yeah. They can even do bloody Jason Jason and Jason X Seat Filler, you know? And we'll still be in for it because

35:15KT: Friends and lovers, we bring a very specific seasoning to the podcast tapestry and Oti just demonstrated that. Shout outs to anyone that has watched the Seat Filler. I still haven't because I'm waiting to do it on the podcast. Oh, wow. I just really love H20 and the fact that, you know, Laurie had a son in Josh Hartnett. What happened to him by the way? Just didn't come back, I guess. Because we are of the same generation, but technically, I don't really recall Josh Hartnett. Like, I know he was the heartthrob out there.

35:49KT: But anyway, it was nice to see him. I think he's just a pretty face. I don't know what else he offers. Maybe that's where he went.

35:49Oti: He was quite good. He did a lot of indie stuff off days, Pearl Harbor days.

35:49KT: Oh, well, there you go. There's your answer. That's what happened to him. It was nice to see Joseph Gordon-Levitt there. Unfortunately, mister Coleman got canceled, but also fortunately, unfortunately, we understand why because we tried it. Jodi Lynn O'Keefe.

36:17Oti: Prison Break. Right? Yeah. She looks so innocent in this film. She does. She doesn't wanna look like the Gretchen we know she is in Prison Break.

36:25KT: But I enjoyed H20. I would say it's my second favorite. Friends and lovers, especially those that are new to the For Your Reference podcast. Every Christmas, notably, you might even notice every review episode, we don't give a numerical value on how we feel in regards to what we're covering and that gets covered in Christmas. So it'll be very interesting rating all of these films out of 10. Mhmm. Shout outs to our patrons because I'm sure Ben will find a way to even out our ratings.

36:58Oti: He'll be 10. 10. 10.

37:00KT: I wanna know what Paul will rate Halloween Kills, but that's a whole another story. Let's get into Halloween Resurrection. Do you have any sort of thoughts about it? I think

37:12Oti: after experiencing the the highs, the semi highs with H20, it just dunked it back down for me. I think Tyra and Busta Rhymes, I was like, mate, all the tropes they could throw at it, they did. I was like, what's the saving grace in this movie? I think it was fine. I think it was just the horny guys that were bothering me. You reckon I just didn't love the whole concept of it. I didn't appreciate the Like the 20 fourseven

37:39Oti: Big Brother surveillance of it all? That as a concept was fine, but it's just execution of it that felt a bit short for me. Okay. At least, like the with the ridiculous Busta Rhymes as a character and Tyra Banks being fucking I didn't even know what she did there. Supposed to be a fucking producer and did shit all because every time she was just dancing and looking away from the cameras, just look at the bloody camera. You'll see it all.

38:05KT: I really well, I I was quite young and I obviously didn't care about the quality. But I feel like I really enjoyed Tyra Banks' Life Size. Do you remember that film? I think it was Lindsay Lohan.

38:05Oti: I think the only thing I've seen Tyra Banks in a movie is Coyote Ugly. So can't help you there.

38:05KT: Can you fight my moonlight on a Tuesday night?

38:25Oti: Yep. It's always full moon, mate. Oh my.

38:31KT: But if you were to ask me, that's my favorite timeline. I know resurrection definitely faltered in quality. However, I do feel like it's the better sort of offering. Resurrection wasn't great, but then it's like, they didn't have enough to go off anyway. So do you blame Resurrection or do you blame the literal resurrection of this fucking like series? Let's move into Rob Zombie. And we both gave accolades that this was our favorite film.

39:03Oti: It was. It is. In the whole franchise.

39:06KT: Shout outs to Brad Dourif, who played Sheriff Brackett, who without an internet connection, I wouldn't even know it was Chucky. And I guess that's also the quality of voice acting, Friends and Lovers. He's also Doc Cochran on Deadwood. Nice. As well. We have a new introduction of Loomis, Malcolm McDowell. I I talk about Luke Evans being a face that's drowning in pussy. Malcolm McDowell looks like an evil man. He just looks like a fucking evil man. And unfortunately, he gets even more

39:41KT: irritable in Halloween two, but we'll come to that. Danny Trejo is also in the first Halloween, but let's both talk about it because we said this is our favorite. Also friends and lovers, that was a big kerfuffle about Suicide Squad and The Suicide Squad. And everyone was being fucking dickheads about the naming of the films. In this particular franchise, we have three separate films called Halloween. So you can it up your pumpkins, friends and lovers.

40:08KT: But how do you feel? Why do you feel like this was the best out of all of the films?

40:16Oti: There's a reason why it's the most lucrative financially for the franchise. Shit racked in 80 mil. Yeah. So there was no fucking pretense over it. It's the best written. At least they ground Michael. We come to start resonating with fucking Michael as a character. We start to understand him as a character. Imagine jumping from Godfather

40:35Oti: Godfather to Godfather three. Yeah. You'd be fucking pissed off. Yeah. You know, we we need that grounding, and I think that's what Rob Zombie saw. There was a gap, and he tried to fill it. Yeah. Absolutely. If you take the original John Carpenter's Halloween and you tie it into Rob Zombie's Halloween, I think it's the perfect partnership. Mhmm. And it just melded so well, and I felt like, mate.

41:01Oti: I love I I felt I felt for Michael. Yeah. We were rooting for Michael. We were rooting for Michael. Yeah. There are times I didn't even care if Michael was in the fucking scene. Yeah. But they said it was, like, feeling shit. Oh, absolutely. If if for your character, your end goal is not for your audience to reason it, to understand, to root for not even root for, to to to just connect

41:24Oti: in any sort of way. Mhmm. Be it you hate him or love him, but have some sort of feeling and not be just nonchalant about his whole demeanor or behavior. True. You know, it needs it's you need to elicit some sort of emotions. And I think Rob Zombie did that for us. He really did. And I think this is the reason why having a character you can semi understand without giving too much fucking away.

41:51Oti: You know, he didn't tell us everything. Yeah. Of course, there's some mysteries about Michael Myers we don't fucking know. That's fine. We're not asking as an audience, give us everything. We just wanna understand. We just wanna connect.

42:03KT: Like, we're gonna have a good time at an orgy, but tell us how we got here and why. Yeah. Yeah.

42:03Oti: Imagine if Bambi stopped fucking half way. Bambi was a fucking dick. So so so

42:13Oti: us?

42:15KT: Are you talking about

42:18KT: are you talking about the Disney animated picture Bambi?

42:24Oti: I'm just saying, man. We need to connect. We need to connect to the character for whatever emotion, you know.

42:30KT: I hope you're happy Halloween franchise. You broke Oti.

42:36Oti: We just need something. I think Rob Zombie provided that in spades. And I felt in love with Halloween again. And I was like, you know what? Rob Zombie needs to continue doing this because I'm loving this. Yeah. I really was. And then he continued.

42:51KT: But let let me stay let me stay in the first Halloween, you know, friends and lovers. We talk a lot about nature and nurture, nature versus nurture, if you're nasty on the podcast. And that's definitely an element that comes up in regards to Mike Myers. Like, immortal or not, there is something fucking going on with Michael Myers. Like, there's no reason for him to be this way. Perhaps this was the first sort of attempt at like a true crime on a fictional character because

43:21KT: they're always trying to compare him, they're always trying to do character studies on him as well. Loomis kind of became like Rossi from Criminal Minds, where he kind of profiteered off of his studies and his experience being close to danger, but not necessarily being that danger. Unfortunately, he kind of becomes that danger in Halloween two. But exactly, like there's nothing else to say, but because I'm a motherfucker, I'm going to keep talking anyway. You know, it's fine to have like more silent sort of horror icons.

43:57KT: I would even say that Pennywise, when he's not like interacting with other characters, we don't necessarily see him plotting in his lap. You know what I mean? So we can have characters that aren't sharing every single thought that they have. However, we never got that through Michael Myers. And like I said, I just gave up. I just accepted the fact that he's gonna go around killing people and he just killed random people. Like there was no specific reason why he was killing people even though he spared out LL Cool J. That's cool. But

44:29KT: what I loved about Halloween, it answered all of the questions that we had. It addressed all of it and it moved forward as well. Unfortunately for us, cause we knew this guy is a stone cold killer, right? Even as a kid, he was a stone cold killer. But there was a part of me that wanted Danny Trejo to live. To show that he has some sort of empathy, he doesn't though. Yeah, cause he killed his family. But in my head, I guess I felt I felt so in love with this Michael Myers.

44:58Oti: I was like, he's not gonna kill Trejo. Like, Trejo gave him a kindness. I think that was the perfect moment in the movie because it showed us just how truly who truly Michael is. No. But I think it's also like, no. You're not supposed to be rooting for this guy. Like, he's a fucking asshole. There's no fucking pretext pretext over it. Like, there's no,

45:16KT: oh, maybe he's fucking gay. They're just mean people, and if he'd be nice no. It doesn't fucking matter. Mhmm. And that's what is so impressive about this movie because it laid it on a bloody tapestry for us. Like, whether he is a product of I do feel like his mother was very attentive, but obviously, unfortunately, we talk about class a lot. She wasn't able to give as much love and attention as she could have. She had an asshole partner that unfortunately became the father figure, you know, for him and his sister.

45:46KT: And, you know, he was kind of left to his own devices. Yeah. He he was left to his own devices. And I think this

45:53Oti: because I think this part of me Mhmm. Really wanted to understand the backstory of Michael for all the other movies we've seen that we never really got any answers for. Like, if you're gonna give us something new, give us that. Yeah. Yeah. And the fact that he tried to see that there's an angle missing from the whole Michael Myers aspect of it. Yeah. And he took it to a direction where I was like, you know what? You could jump in from the first Halloween to this and ignore everything

46:22Oti: else. Yeah. And you'll be fucking happy as Halloween as a franchise.

46:26KT: I would argue you would just watch the Rob Zombie Halloween.

46:30Oti: Oh. I see. Yeah. Like, you know what? And there's a reason again. At the end of the day, the bottom line figures don't fucking lie. Yeah. And to me, it's it it grossed a lot because it did a lot for what was a dying what is a dying franchise, which just keeps on being

46:50Oti: fluffed up to stay alive when there's nothing really there. At least for me, when I know a plant is dying, I stop fucking watering it. Yeah. Just don't water it thinking that you're gonna make 5,000,000 on top of your investment. Yeah. It's nothing, man. It's nothing.

47:08KT: Well, I don't really have anything to say about the Halloween two Rob Zombie film. Do you have anything you wanna say? It had Octavia Spencer in there, which was nice. Yeah. She died like in five seconds. But I think we need to cover Ma one of these days because that was such a fun film. Yeah. It was. It was creepy as fuck and The film, not Octavia Spencer. Yep. Okay. And But I thought it was cute because we had to Google at the same time because

47:34KT: you very nicely laying your splooshes said, isn't she too big to take a small role like this? And I think it came out the same year as The Help. Yeah. But yes, we do hold Octavia Spencer in high regard. So the fact that she has such a small fucking role when she died, that was definitely something to speak to. But yeah, like this timeline definitely dared to do more than what we knew it from. It completely broke the foundations and built its own.

48:05KT: But that's where a lot of the credit I would say just watch this film like the first Halloween film, but maybe that's sacrilege. Add add it to the religions that I'm sacrilegious against, friends and lovers. Let's get into the most recent timeline, Oti. So this spawns off the first original Halloween, and then we have, again, the film called Halloween that came out in 2018. We also recently had Halloween Kills. I wanna kind of talk about them separately, but we can obviously meld them together as we continue talking.

48:43KT: I don't even know if it's worth asking this, but did you think this was necessary? Did you think this was needed? Rob Zombie's Halloween two finished in 2009, and this particular, you know, shoot came out in 2018. Do you think this was needed?

48:59Oti: I think from a clean slate perspective and what they wanted to do because they have like a, what, three movie plan for how they want Halloween to end. I was like, cool. You know, you can do whatever you want because everyone else has done that. Yeah. So why fucking change the motion now? It doesn't it doesn't really matter. So I was eager to see what they wanted to present. Mhmm. I was excited

49:21Oti: to see that we had our Jamie Lee Curtis back Yep. Without being killed in the first two seconds. I loved it. I loved that she was preparing for this all this time. I loved all that.

49:32KT: So you don't you don't mind this Halloween. It's a Halloween Kills that you didn't like.

49:32Oti: Yes.

49:32KT: Oh, okay. Okay. Well, let's glaze over this Halloween and we'll get into Halloween Kills then. Further further to your statement, Halloween Rob Zombie's 2007 at the time was the highest grossing, you know, of the offerings that we had. But then we had the 2018, which makes sense because so much time has elapsed. And since H20, it's it's the next sort of spiritual sequel of the original canon of Laurie Strode.

50:08KT: So it makes sense that it made 255,600,000 at the box office. I don't think this was needed because this was the one with the fucking podcasters, wasn't it? Yeah. Far be it for me, friends and lovers, as a podcaster to say that podcasters weren't fucking needed, but it's true. Like, it it was so frustrating and, you know, I've spoken a lot, at least on Patreon, I don't know how much on the main podcast, but I've spoken a lot about how unnecessary and how indulgent, you know, true crime consuming

50:39KT: can be. Because if you really fucking cared, you won't always be looking for the glossy, most salacious of crimes. Right? You would even start locally, but that's a whole different conversation for another day. I don't think this was needed. And a lot of what Laurie Strode was saying at the start of this film when she was addressing the podcasters were exactly right on the money. She was essentially saying, we didn't need to have this movie. I'm like, okay, thank you. Can I go home now? Like, can I go to a secondary location?

51:07KT: Like, why do we need to keep continuing the way that we're going? And we we did touch on it earlier, but I don't like that there's no consistency in regards to Michael Myers sort of killing methods. Right? Credit to Mortal Kombat because you know what the signature moves are, you know what the signature weapons are. There's nothing in regards to Michael Myers. Like, he just picks up what I don't know. You can talk about resourcefulness,

51:32KT: but there is such a thing as branding. Right? But maybe that's part of the success. The fact that he didn't need to have succinct branding and he still finds a way into your heart chambers. Give Michael Myers to people's elbow, mate. Or the Rakesh you smile. Yeah. It's It's also the introduction of Judy Greer, not in Halloween, but in Halloween Kills. I was definitely getting some Cheryl Tunt vibes from Judy's character. We also see, you know, there's like three generations that's introduced in the Halloween film. I'm done with the initial sort of Halloween.

52:11KT: Again, it's just another wash. That's why I say I enjoyed H20 more because so much, especially at the end of the first Halloween twenty eighteen film, there's so much focus on Laurie Strode abandoning everything that she could have had any sort of sense of enjoyment, a family, companionship, friendship, love, any sort of enjoyment aside from basic sort of survival. Right? That's all she did for decades.

52:41KT: And she still did so many stupid shit. She stood right in front of the door with two glass panels, which apparently you designed, so you shouldn't have had two glass panels anyway. But anyway, she stood in the middle of it and Michael Myers fucking hooked her. Like like, I'm sorry. So you sacrificed everything and you're still a fucking idiot?

52:41Oti: Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, I stood there thinking,

53:02Oti: mate, after however fucking long it's been Yeah. This is what you're doing? Yeah. Castigating your fucking kid Yeah. For this? Yep. For you to be fucking choked within the first five seconds of Michael's appearance?

53:17KT: Like, I I get they need to have that sort of Naruto, Sasuke, like, they need to have that Scorpion Sub-Zero. Like, they need to have that classic sort of, you know, fighting with each other.

53:30Oti: It just didn't play. But the thing is, there's no fucking competition. One on one, Michael fucking wins all the time. Oh, absolutely. So Why are we here? Make Laurie smarter or just someone who fucking doesn't give a shit.

53:30KT: So can I convince you the H20 is the second best after?

53:48KT: Let's get into Halloween Kills. Friends and lovers, we have given you a meaty bite. So if you haven't watched Halloween Kills, this will be the time where you would love us and leave us if you're nasty. But we're going to get into the film. We're going get into spoilers as well. I didn't care for it.

53:48Oti: Yeah. Neither did I. But I don't know if that's impressive to say because I didn't care for a lot of this.

53:48KT: True. But then we get Tommy fucking Doyle inciting everyone. Yeah. As if we care for Tommy Doyle in the first place. I don't care about extras in the background.

54:17Oti: You really drowned pulling back in the characters. Oh. You know, pulling at our heartstrings, nostalgia. Tommy Doyle, she appeared in the second Halloween, but didn't die. Like, alright, mate. We get all that. Why? Yeah.

54:38KT: But what purpose? Exactly. For what? We also see that Judy Greer's character, Karen, I believe,

54:47KT: that she are we are we surmising that she's dead?

54:47Oti: Yep. Not Loomis dead, like Dead, dead. Okay. Well, then again, with this franchise, it's no one is ever fucking dead. True. They can just appear in the next scene when their head got blown off in the previous movie. They can appear with a scar. They'll be like, oh, we just put plaster on it, it's all fine. I think as long as you put like the American flag in the background, it's fine. America, your head will never get blown off.

55:17Oti: You can survive all the shit in the world.

55:19KT: Oh my god. There is one more film in this trilogy or in this quad sort of offering, but Halloween Kills was a weak one. Guess what I will say about the recent sort of timeline is from a writing point of view, they really try to make it as grounded as possible. They really tried to bring some sort of cohesion into the lore that we're familiar with, but also try and offer something that was different as well. However,

55:52KT: this kind of goes back to the point. Because I feel like this is like this recent timeline is one of the better written like stories. So one of the one of the better written plot. I didn't enjoy it the most, but I think cohesively it did a better job from a writing point of view. Facts.

56:09Oti: Mhmm. And it still didn't deliver. Yep. So it's like, how much do you wanna try and fix this before you realize it can't be fixed? Yeah. At this point, it's just flogging it dead. I don't wanna say horse, but you're flogging it dead. I was trying to think of an animal that's less oppressed. But that's alright. Yeah. And I'm just looking forward to see how they'll finish off this franchise next year. Yeah. And let's just accept

56:39Oti: and say that, you know what? It's been a couple of fun movies. It's been real, but we're out. Yep. And tap out. And fucking tap out.

56:49KT: Well, it's not to say that I didn't enjoy this journey, because I absolutely did, but you just can't fix it. Like, I don't know. That's just my personal opinion. That's just my opinion, Go and check out our Lebowski episode. You should also check out on film buses, they have a Jesus Rolls. But if you do, that's on you, if you check that out. But I like from a writing point of view, I really enjoyed it. I think it did better. I think if they were going to try and take it seriously, this was the best take

57:20KT: on that. But there is one component I wanna talk about. If there's anything else you wanna talk about, you can talk about it after. But the mob mentality of it all, I didn't care for it. Oh, why was that? I didn't like it. So there's always an overlap and there is always a place in horror to talk about social issues. Candyman is a perfect example of that. If people think the new Candyman is political and they didn't understand the original one, essentially.

57:52Oti: Right? Well, there's a difference though, because the new Candyman is just there's there's there's nuance on this. But that's not why. That that's not why it's it's it's good or bad. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's not why it's good or bad.

58:06KT: That's a that's a scintillating take friends and lovers. But, you know, even with Child's Play or with with Chucky lore, we also cover issues, you know, in regards to sexuality, for example. And it feels so effortless. Right? And it was always part of the tapestry of the film. However, there was never really any sort of tackling of social commentary or any sort of broader issues outside of Haddonfield. Yeah. Right? Unless we're gonna talk about the caricature nature of Irish people in Halloween three, but that takes the franchise a few steps backwards. But anyway, the mob mentality felt so

58:49KT: slapped on. And again, I think it goes back to my comment of it's just trying to be a chameleon in the decade that it's being released. And fortunately, unfortunately, it is very popular to bring up political social commentary issues in films. Even though it's kind of always happened in horror as a genre. But the mob mentality, didn't necessarily care for. It was very weak. It was very Dave Chappelle The Closer, but I'll leave that for Patreon. But it was it was like the mob mentality without any sort of information go after this guy

59:27KT: that wasn't inpatient at the mental institution, but he wasn't the Michael Myers. Yeah? And then they all they they didn't even care. It was like, why do this when South Park have the episode of Britney Spears and the vilification of her as a person and her as a public sort of entity? Mhmm. Because that already gets capsulated in a what? A twenty fucking minute episode? I didn't care for this, and this goes back to what we were saying with Pennywise. You are small. You are small. They did this to Michael Myers,

60:01KT: near the end of the film. I don't care for it. If you never wanted to have a discussion about social commentary and those sort of issues, then why fuck it bring it up now? Again, is the flavoring of the 2020s, so maybe that's why. But also I'm not here for it.

60:21Oti: Fair enough. Know, maybe it was symbolism. Maybe they were like, oh, we're throwing we're throwing Harvey Weinstein down the window, mate. Oh. At the window, you go for your mate. You're so brave.

60:38KT: Because you said you said that while we're watching it and I You thought do this was our breadwinner?

60:43Oti: Nah, mate. That's no Michael. Fuck out the window.

60:48KT: And the plant.

60:50Oti: Yep. Anyway

60:53KT: Can we not end on that? Because I'm done, but I don't wanna end on that.

61:00Oti: Fair enough. Like, I think I loved, I think they would have done more with Judy Greer as a character. I think the fuck She that you kind of offered nothing. She offered nothing for someone who had drained all her fucking childhood to pay And that was her whole childhood? Yeah. And she did nothing like, I'm like, mate, Utilize her. Because parents? Can't fuck you. No one can fuck you up more than your parents. There you go. You know? And we saw nothing of that. Met fucking Judy Greer, the next fucking commander of the Michael Myers universe.

61:26Oti: Roundhouse kicks and whatnot. She gave us nothing. Yeah. I know. She was scared to pull the trigger. She was scared to do everything. Yeah. I know. Second guessing herself. Guess we can tick ourselves back to, oh, you know, Fieh can do a lot of things. What what? Fuck that shit. Yeah. This this whole whatever the fuck this franchise is has never made tried to make any sense. So watch that now. Make a fucking roundhouse Michael. Make a do something. Let's cheer for her. Let's do she's supposed to take over Laurie

62:00Oti: Strode. But no, she's dead now. What now?

62:00KT: I didn't know I invited

62:00Oti: Missed opportunities, mate. Missed opportunities.

62:08KT: I didn't know I invited Busta Oti Rhymes in the house. Apparently, I did. Okay. Let's finish off by not necessarily predictions. What do you wanna see out of Halloween Ends?

62:08Oti: Everyone bloody dies.

62:23Oti: The fastest seconds of the movie, bomb, everyone's dead, credits, and I'll be like, you know what? That was the best fucking movie.

62:35KT: Oh, because like, Laurie and Michael didn't really have a showdown in Halloween Kills, but I guess it makes sense because that's going to happen in

62:44Oti: We've sneak seen peeks of what the hell of in 2022, will be out? You know, Laurie Strode will go awful commando or whatnot? That was deserved for Judy Greer because I'm trying to get the woman characters to be commander.

62:59KT: Oh.

63:00KT: I've read your screenplay.

63:03Oti: That would confuse that would confuse Michael Myers to hell. Remember when when Laurie stood no. No. No. No. There's there's a character who was trying to to kiss his hand. I was like, what the fuck is this feeling? He he was dazed for a few seconds, imagining seeing someone commando. Do a Sharon Stone there. Call back. Do a Sharon Stone. Marco Barzona fucking kill you. No. Actually, he he he was carrying a lot of dead people, naked people out there. So yeah. He he's got his taste or whatever. So So essentially It's all out the window.

63:33KT: Essentially, our critical analysis, the way of Oti is give Michael Myers a boner.

63:39Oti: Yep. He was confused by the kiss. He he stalled. Exploit that. Exploit that people. Come on. We can we can we can write this. You know what? They should crowdfund this. Everyone should fucking write a line of what they think they might go on Halloween should end, And we'll make the best fucking movie ever. Wow. Because no one else can, might as well take it up on the people. Wow.

64:06KT: Friends and lovers, hopefully your Shamrocks are now silver. We're gonna finish off in a segment we call, I really don't know what the fuck is after that. We're gonna finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference, Oti.

64:20Oti: You know what I'm gonna reference? Despite the fact, if you've listened to FYR before, you know that I fucking hate their guts. I hate everything about the storyline. I'm gonna reference It because at the base of it, there's still something in there. There's some fucking coherency. It's been there for decades. Just just I don't know. Just pick a lane, mate. Pick a fucking lane and stick to it. It. Alright.

64:48KT: I'm I'm really surprised at that, Oti. But I guess this really got you riled up. Right? I can't reference I can't reference a superior Chucky to this shit.

64:57Oti: So so lay on your laurels with it. Alright. Alright, sire.

65:03KT: I will meet you in your bed chambers in the hour. I will reference Sinister. Oh, nice. Because if we're talking about anthology sort of concepts that would work even without the main character, it's Sinister. If you would like to hear more of my hot takes and Oti's hot takes on Twitter and Instagram, we're at ForYourRefPod. Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also on Oti plus Michael Myers forever podcast. If you like to leave a rating and review, and we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.